Lost History of the Twentieth Century Decline of the Islamic Intellectual Sciences

[@yasinozt40]

This was way above my intellectual level😂 i thought that i was smart, but here i just understood the simpeler parts, but not the deeper meanings of his message. Allahuakbar

[@CuriousGazelle]

I love you.

[@hasnayousaf7450]

Love from Australia ❤️

[@The5a1man]

Assalam Shaykh, Is there a recommended reading documenting this history, specifically details of the conflict between the approaches of Shirbini vs Abduh or Afghani and their respective justifications? Jazak Allahu Khair for you unique and nuanced contribution, and for making these resources available to the larger, uninitiated audience. May Allah reward you immensely for your efforts and dedication.

[@hasanspikerandtwomullas]

Wa alaykum salam. Start with footnote 38 on page 172 of Things as They Are. On Shirbini/Abduh etc., a lot of this only exists in fragments in multiple Arabic sources. But you will find it if you know how to look.

[@hasanspikerandtwomullas]

Someone needs to write a book on this.

[@isagoge]

The thumbnail has Bakhit Muti’i. Did he contribute to intellectual decline and if yes, how? Shukran

[@chadmuslims]

Gigachad

[@ultrasignificantfootnote3378]

I think you are on the right path, to simply assume that "God did it" is not intellectually sound for all questions .But herein lies the danger .... if we find naturalistic explanations for everything it becomes easy to become an atheist.

[@hasanspikerandtwomullas]

I'm talking about metaphysical explanations accessible to illuminated intellect, not naturalistic explanations ! Of course God ultimately does everything, but this doesn't mean we have to pretend He didn't create multiple degrees of existence.

[@ultrasignificantfootnote3378]

@@hasanspikerandtwomullas What does it mean when you say " God ultimately does everything " can it not lead to the conclusion that God is " doing" all of our actions including Shirk and voilence ?

[@hasanspikerandtwomullas]

@@ultrasignificantfootnote3378 The Ash'ari position (also my position) against the Mu'tazila is that God creates us and all our actions. But obviously, that doesn't mean God is "doing shirk" or any other sin, because He is God, and we are us. We are the ones that "acquire" our actions simply through being the beings that we are.

[@ultrasignificantfootnote3378]

@@hasanspikerandtwomullas But God has ordained that sin will take place and all the sin that takes place can only take place by his will. or is that incorrect ? And then if I may I would like to ask if anything is known about how God creates our actions ?

[@hasanspikerandtwomullas]

@@ultrasignificantfootnote3378 The will pertains to His irāda takwīniyya, His volition to existentiate, not His irāda tashrīʿiyya, His lawgiving volition, i.e. of the sharīʿa, for which humans are morally accountable. He "wills sin *to exist*" because it is part of His larger plan, but humans who commit sins will be held accountable for them. I appreciate this raises a host of complex questions about predestination, and this is obviously not the place to get into them. WIth regard to your other point, God creates our actions because He creates the world and everything in it and our actions are a part of that.

[@As-fs6qd]

Unduly harsh..as far as i know not much came after ghazaali apart from mirdad mullah sadrah and shah walli allah perhaps.. 20th century we needed a bridge before we could tackle post rennaisance and analytical philosophy.. The traditionalist and people like Corbin provided the bridge so that muslims in the modern era are equipped to tackle modernity properly ..it could only be understood from within. Its unreasonable to expect someine in a traditional society to tackle wittgenstein for examole? Apart from reverts the 20th century did give us traditional muslim said nursi and iqbal amongst other.. So the decline is not as dramatic as painted here and in fact it was necessary to regress before a proper expansion could take place.. Its all good.. .

[@hasanspikerandtwomullas]

All due respect, I think the fact that you say *"not much came after ghazaali apart from mirdad mullah sadrah and shah walli allah"* shows that you (as so many others) have fallen for a destructive and totally false narrative about our history which arose exactly because of being cut off from our intellectual history. In fact, this precise claim is dealt with at the linked point in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3OukKiBe9d9gac (see the two slides, one representing the false, and one the true narrative).

[@AspiringServant65]

​@@hasanspikerandtwomullas Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh, Ya Shaykh, this is an amazing video and it's informative. I will check it. Barakallahu Feek I need some clarification. Doesn't eternal effect support eternity of the world? Some Akbarians believed in eternal effect like Mulla Jami etc. Maybe you might clarify that

[@hasanspikerandtwomullas]

@@AspiringServant65 Akbarians don't believe in eternal effect, they believe in degrees of temporarily including some entities being created in that which resembles a timeless state, but all creation for them is ex nihilo. The language can easily be confused for the eternity of the world, but that is categorically not what is intended. I will deal with this in a future seminar inshallah.

[@happiness_1000]

btw he's talking about neotraditionalism, not the Perennialist traditionalists (who are even worse)

[@AspiringServant65]

@@hasanspikerandtwomullas When you post that regarding the topic, I will show this to some who misunderstood that. Shukran Sidi. JazakAllah khairan.

[@ash4h]

"The philosopher who is skeptical of the moaning pillar" - Mathnawi 😊

[@hasanspikerandtwomullas]

O really ? kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaPcpJqBdpxmbas