Lost Norwich - What Next for Anglia Square?

[@kevinturner7903]

I enjoy your videos, I would like to see the streets re instated with modern houses and shops echoing the architecture of the original streets!

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Thank you. I believe they did that in Nottingham and it would be great to see it done here.

[@davegoldsmith4020]

A nice timely video John, there's a photo of the HMSO building in the EDP today. The first thing I did after watching this video was watch your original. In 1993 when I returned to Norwich I lived in Sussex street so Anglia Square was my local shopping centre. Fifty years ago I met my future wife in Scamps in Anglia square. I am in the Knock it down ASAP camp. Norwich must move with the times , most of the develop of our city shown in your videos have been positive, Anglia square is not one of them. While we must protect the historic city we love, the Anglia square development of the sixties destroyed much of the local historic area. It is possible to have modern beside the old, I cannot remember ever seeing anybody condemn the Forum, it happily sits beside Peter Mancroft for example. The recently cancelled development would be a good base for the development of the area, before building start falling down on their own!

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

I agree it's in such a state now something has to be done sooner rather than later. I originally entitled this "The last days of Anglia Square" but then the developers pulled out and I had to tweak my script!

[@The_Brit_Girls]

This was such a timely and well-researched video. I loved how you adapted it during the making of it to ask the question, what next for Anglia Square? Much as I would love to see a thriving shopping centre, I feel that as most shopping centres are struggling due to online shopping, the best idea would be housing, particularly affordable housing. I would also like there to be a community facility and attractive gardens with play equipment for the kiddies. What do you think?

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

I think your suggestion is exactly what is needed. Sadly it might take a while to materialise. Meanwhile Anglia Square continues to look shabbier and shabbier. I just hope it's safe, and nothing falls off it!

[@sherintv478]

Beautiful sharing my friend 👍💙💕👍💜💛💚💗🦋❤

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Thank you so much, glad you liked it! 👍

[@Polysixchick]

I think if Anglia Square had been well maintained and looked after it would look fine as it is, the office blocks could have been re used as flats or more shopping space. The 60s brutalist look is not a style that a lot of people like and it is a shame in a way the whole place replaced quiet Victorian houses and streets. The architecture for the time was supposed to be modern and futuristic but it's not aged well. The trouble is the owners (whoever they are) have let the place go and it now looks like something out of a zombie apocalypse movie. I remember it looking tatty even when I was a kid in the 1980s

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Some excellent points there - it was intended to have a modern feel, but now it just feels neglected and run down. It does make you wonder what might have been.

[@jackiebennison8934]

A great well put together video. I had the sad job of helping in a charity shop that recently closed down . I felt so sorry for a lot of the people who live in that area and it is their social hub . The quicker it is knocked down and redesigned, redeveloped and gives these people a decent place to meet with a good mixture of named shops, independent shops , cafes and charity shops all in the right balance to meet all the needs of community and attract more people to the independent retailers . There’s a growing number of students from the colleges in that area, elderly people and it’s served by a good bus service so hopefully it will be redeveloped soon and this very very sad place can become a lovely vibrant place to visit and shop .

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Thank you very much for such a powerful and heartfelt comment.

[@juliaread5449]

Did well to get so many current photos, the security staff there are not usually slow in telling people taking photos there to leave the site!

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Ha ha, thanks for that. I didn't see any security at all!

[@ikarus_incarnate]

Thank you for sharing another personal and informative insight to 'a fine city'... Anglia Square seems something of a "cursed" area of Norwich, as it seems to have gone through repeated updates and face lifts. All it seems without much success. I am sure you will have shared previous episodes of its history, as it is indeed a quite historic area surely (? , just inside the wall ??.... ) I have fond memories of ' Jack's yard' just under the flyover on Magdelain Street... a maze of recycled doors/ fire places... Happy days!

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Thank you so much for your comment - yes there is a video about the area now covered by Anglia Square kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKm6p6ajbL6Igacsi=cj97aoEY7ZcxuroA. Thanks also for the bit about Jack's Yard. Fascinating!

[@adrianrutterford762]

Thanks John. An interesting and thought provoking video. Perhaps a return to how things were before the current development.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

That's a message that comes over very strongly. It would be great if it were to be adopted.

[@adrianrutterford762]

@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich Sadly the money will do all the talking. And there will be another redevelopment in 2073.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

@@adrianrutterford762 I don't think I'll be making a video about that!

[@adrianrutterford762]

@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich I don’t think that I’ll be around to watch it. Have a good weekend

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

@@adrianrutterford762 you too!

[@bonniescott2733]

So much affordable housing could be fitted into these wasted spaces, and yet nothing! Such a shame. I personally hate the look of Anglia Square, but I love the community around it! Great video as always :)

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Thank you. It's all looking rather sad now.

[@simonconner5351]

Excellent video, an historical record. Great photos too - I’ve been meaning to do a photo shoot of poor old A Sq. How long can this go on? Reminds me of how many years (decades) it took to sort out Riverside.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Thanks Simon, I saw it as being an historical record....but I'd taken the photos at a time when demolition was imminent!

[@mrlotusmic]

Norwich needs a five star (proper 5*) hotel. A Rosewood or Peninsula type. Norwich has an airport and a fantastic coast to explore. The money would flow into that county. When I visit regularly it’s very difficult to find a modern standards hotel unlike other UK city’s which is a shame. I’m surprised investors haven’t built one yet as Suffolk lacks the same and relies on tourism for its economy rather than manufacturing.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

good point, I'm not sure this is the location for it though.

[@abrarcheema9105]

Beautiful video 📹 ❤🎉

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Thank you, that's kind of you.

[@mattw8332]

I think it needs to be a predominantly residential development like the Goldsmith Street one. It should also retain some commercial space for a supermarket. The HMSO building could have been turned into an apartment block in the late 1990s when the structure was still good. Could the current owners at least make a start on demolishing the car park?

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

I would agree that it needs to be predominantly residential, with good links to the city, somehow avoiding the flyover. The flyover seems to make it something of an island site.

[@stacietrouble1]

I dont think the buildings needed to reach such a stage of deterioration that they couldn't of been repurposed in some way, some years ago. It all looks rather dismal now. Its all such a shame, because now the money cant be found to bring the buildings down let alone think about whats going to be put in its place. There are some lovely buildings surrounding it around magdalen street i think it would be sad not to see then included in any decision and replicated in some way.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

I agree, it feels like it's been left too long to do anything with the existing buildings.

[@peterjameson321]

Thank you John. I remember the building of Anglia Square and all the beautiful artists' impressions in the newspapers of how wonderful it was going to be. In reality it was so poorly designed that there weren't even any public lavatories included. In retrospect it was realise that perhaps it wasn't such a good idea to leave out public lavatories and converted portacabins were installed at the Botolph street entrance as a remedy for a very long time before finally a few cramped cupboards in the square were converted for the purpose. These have now been closed, perhaps by the current owners, in order to make the square unpleasant and move public opinion in favour of redevelopment. If more thought had been given to the design of the entire square in the beginning then today Anglia Square might not be a site under the shadow of demolition and redevelopment.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

I think I can remember loos within the square, but maybe they were added more recently.

[@InArcadiaSum]

I don't so much remember the building of Anglia Square as I do the wholesale destruction of the area for the building of the Stationery office and the rest. I was at the Art School at the time, and I suppose I should have been "with it" and eager for the wonderful new buildings, but all I felt was an appalling sense of loss for what had, or could have been, and fury at the ersatz constructions that went up in its place.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

@@InArcadiaSum very well said, it got rid of much of the history of one of the oldest part of the city. I don't remember it from it's early days - I wonder if it ever looked shiny and new?!

[@mistevious]

Great video and voice-over as well. I believe this has been deliberately stalled and that it will be left to go to ruins for another 5 years before it is redeveloped for a high-end and overly expensive property hub and becomes a high-society house redevelopment for the rich and wealthy. A complete shambles since the 1970s when the council knocked down the original - perfectly good art-deco cinema to create a large complex until they relaxed the ground was too soft to build big and up - which is why the area to the back of Anglia Square is a dreadful car park sight. At least, that is what my late parents told me. Keep doing the videos and keep us updated on the "marmite" that is Anglia Square (ps. I had a part-time job at the then-Odeon Cinema in the late 80s, and each Sunday, I updated the black lettering to announce the film for the Monday! LOL

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Thanks very much for your comment. I think it's island location next to the flyover doesn't help matters! Interesting about the Odeon. Guess we'll have to wait and see what happens next!

[@IDreamOfGaming]

I love Anglia Square. Such a shame it has to be be torn down. Excellent video as always.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Thank you. I think Anglia Square is a bit marmite! People love it and hate it!

[@IDreamOfGaming]

@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich Some people think it's awful others think great. I love it. I love the concreteness (yep concreteness).

[@johnnygriff]

Thanks John, Excellent video, as ever. It's a shame that Weston Homes have had to pull out. Their large development in the centre of Peterborough, across the river from the Cathedral, is high quality and now has the most attractive apartments in that City. The HMSO building has not been used for over 25 years. Will we ever see it replaced?

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Thanks very much. Coincidentally I am going to Peterborough tomorrow, so I'll see if I can stumble across that development!

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

I had a look at the Peterborough development - very smart, and I could imagine such a look to Anglia Square. Also noted that the football ground is sponsored by Weston Homes! Maybe they could direct their sponsorship towards poor old Anglia Square!

[@gmdyt1]

reinstate the houses and streets

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

I agree totally, it could be great. I believe that's happened/is happening in Nottingham.

[@jokennedy2943]

Excellent! I hate brutalist architecture but am strangely fond of Anglia Square

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

A lot of people are!

[@Tiggysmum]

I think it’s a really depressing place to be, with the run down buildings but also the people that go there as a lot of them sadly are on very low incomes so it sort of adds to the whole feeling of the buildings don’t matter and neither do the people. I have fond memories of my first trip to the cinema at the age of 3 mum took me to see Bambi, we had a green mini which she accidentally reversed into a concrete block in the multi storey car park on the way out of the cinema. The back light lost. It’s the sort of area I avoid as much as possible.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Thank you, lovely memory about the green mini! I hope the run-down feel of Anglia Square at this moment in its history came over in the video.

[@simongee8928]

The potential developers don't seem to understand that the whole of the area around Anglia Square is mostly one of folk with limited income, so any attempt to upgrade or upmarket the square porbably wont work.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

I see that today the City Council have said they are approaching the government for special funding. "Levelling up" seems appropriate to me!

[@theoloyla]

Built after I left the city. Have visited a couple of times on return visits but must admit I was always underwhelmed compared to the Chapelfield centre

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Completely agree. I guess it was a thing of its time - nevertheless it's sad to see it so neglected.

[@maryhairy1]

I voted for the changes that were proposed. Then the next thing PTB squashed it. Anglia Square is a great place to shop but makes Norwich look tardy! But then again, Norwich city is very tardy with so many shops closed! Are they ever going to improve the situation? I doubt it !

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

It's very sad at the moment, but I hope it can evolve into something rather better. Anglia Square and Debenhams would be first on my list!

[@raythomason3]

Norwich's appearance is of medium to low height structures. Even Castle Mall was built below ground. So please no high rise towers which from certain vistas would compete with the wonderful cathedral.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Excellent point, and fully agreed!

[@James47298]

Great vid, in midst of a Housing crisis it seems criminal that this brownfield site can't be redeveloped with affordable and sustainable housing.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Totally agree!

[@nevillej9408]

I am in my late 60s and very much doubt whether I will ever see the place rebuilt, it’s such a massive undertaking which gets more prohibitively expensive by the day.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

I'm in my mid-60s, and it has never occurred to me that I won't see it redeveloped! That brings it all home to me!

[@kevinparker7442]

I Didn't think the old Barclays/Desh buliding was part of the development?

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

As far as I'm aware everything I said was as was planned.

[@lukewolsey]

I think the last time I actually visited and bought anything was maybe the mid 2000s. Regular visitor through the 90s as a kid. I say demolish it, replace with affordable housing on the old street network with plenty of trees, green space and pedestrian and cycle areas. Could look a bit like the good work done on King Street.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

I think you've perfectly summed up my own views, especially with the reference to King Street!

[@DJBathtub]

I think it’s a shame they can’t fix these buildings (excluding the carpark). I’m quite fond of them.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Lots of people like them, but lots don't!

[@DJBathtub]

@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich Yeah very Marmite.🙂

[@jamesgilbart2672]

The planned new buildings all look rather nondescript and blocky - they could be anywhere. Having eliminated the brutalist architecture of the 60s, it would be good to replace them with structures that are at least attractive and maybe in keeping with the historic city centre.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Thanks for your comment. I guess with the proposals having fallen through, it's back to the drawing board. Personally I'd like to see a recreation of the original site layout as far as it's possible to achieve that.

[@jamesgilbart2672]

Yes, I agree! It was before my time but in old pictures that area of town looked much more attractive before it was all demolished and the brutalist concrete builders moved in.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Totally!

[@philipfrancis7303]

Is it really too late to hope the [once] proposed plans for the redevelopment can by reversed by the Council getting back to the developers and ironing-out any disagreements? The plans were already ahead and then kyboshed by bad publicity because the [quite modest] housing block was felt to be too inappropriate. I can't blame the developers for giving up the fight and backing out. The whole proposed scheme would have looked great for Norwich . If any viewers want to see how bad modern architecture can be, look at the huge garden-shed now casting a shadow over Great Yarmouth market, or their even-uglier Marine development on the seafront.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

It feels like it is too late to revive that plan. I can sadly see the day when the whole site is fenced off as being too dangerous to use.

[@303cerebral]

Years more of people using the meaningless phrase "eyesore" yet to come.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Sadly you could be right

[@kingsethofpinecone]

@davegoldsmith4020 i like what your saying but i must abmit though. But the place is in such disrepair it could be restored to its 1980s or 70's form and plus i dont realy like the design of the pland biulding to be built on the site because it looks quite ugly like it litraly looks like a universityand it teminds me of that cheap plastic modern style to be honest with you and i dont like that kind of style! Anyways i used to live near there before i turned 3 in 2013 and it was quite bad around there but i mostly liked the old architecture of the 60s/70's you know?

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

I hope they don't think about restoring it - as far as I'm concerned, we need to start again, but sadly I don't think anybody has any idea when that might happen!

[@samrc8350]

Garbage council, garbage results. It should have been torn down 10 years ago. There could be 500- 700 council tax receipts coming from that area, contributing to services in Norwich, instead - nothing. Trash council.

[@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich]

Thanks for your comment. I don't pretend to know all the political ins and outs, but I have heard the Council is now looking to buy it. I've no idea what the plan would be should that happen.