Ham Rado - Chameleon whips update. Also a bad nanoVNA

[@mmcnew1]

I too purchased what does appear to be a bad unit. I bought a Nanovna-h (same 2.8” screen but 10KHz-1.5GHz range). Mine has the same symptoms as the test unit here. Calibrated with provided cable on. Proper results show upon testing the calibration with the provided open, short and load screw on caps. Testing SWR on three dual band antennas yield wildly off SWR... all three antennas are solid performers in real life. A vertical mobile mag mount, mounted on metal, showed a near flat SWR of ~1.3:1 130MHz to 160MHz (I wish!). An Elk 440\2m 5 element log periodic mounted on pvc pipe showed extremely high at 146MHz (6:1) and that was it’s good spot in the 2m band. But I am willing to give another vendor a shot. This is an extremely useful device if it works, especially at this price point, like so many others that have. Just not mine...

[@K6ARK]

My NanoVNA had similar issues. Changing the start/stop frequency range caused an issue with the Y axis scale. I updated the firmware and resolved all issues. Give it a shot - very easy to do.

[@loughkb]

No, it wasn't simply scaling. If you noticed on the display, the indicated measurements in text were incorrect. It is an electronic problem.

[@K6ARK]

@@loughkb, yes mine was doing the same. Try a firmware update.

[@JnJTrueOutdoorAdventures]

Did you not notice that in SWR mode instead of 1 / 1.62 that it was showing 0.2 / 1.62, that may be the reason you aren't getting the same results as your blue VNA. I now it has been several months since this video came out and someone else may have noticed that. Juddie WD8WV

[@loughkb]

That first number is the steps per graticule mark. By setting it to smaller number, the graph is expanded, making detail more clear. It has nothing to do with the actual measurement.

[@aknaturalgolfer]

taking off the protective film corrected all touch screen problems on my nanovna

[@loughkb]

I doubt it would help the torn ribbon cable connected to this one. :-)

[@Chris-in-ky-ky4ckp]

Hello Kevin, there is a really active group.io for these. There is new firmware and pc software under development. You might try flashing new firmware and see what happens. KY4CKP

[@Mike500912]

I bought a nanoVNA. One of the lucky ones, I guess. Because it is open source hardware and software, there are so many manufacturers all using the same "look" (apart from the white one). I did have one issue though, and that was the "jog wheel" at the top which had two dry joints. Just a soldering exercise, luckily, however I find I don't use the jog wheel. I find the touch screen more convenient. First project I used it on was making a VHF/UHF ladder-line J-Pole. The nanoVNA was just way more convenient than my Siglent Spectrum Analyser and tracking generator (especially for outside testing). However, I did compare both, and the nanoVNA was on the money.

[@loughkb]

Cool. It is pretty neat. I like the near real time display updating once a second or so. I could see it being very useful. I might even buy one myself once a good consistent source is found.

[@MrPerrey]

@@loughkb - I bought one from a indicated reliable source / Seller from Ebay. The device is by far the best purchase I ever did! Very easy to use, small for outdoor, perfect to use with PC SW frontend on the workbench. Measurments are reliable, repeatable, and consistent considering a carefull and correct calibration procedure. Calibration set that came with it was capable until 900Mhz. I only replaced the two black cables to a own build RG316 set. But also the black cable set that came with the unit is good enough for normal use. Two port S Parameter mesurements are in a range of 80dB until 300 Mhz und go up until 900Mhz considering a 50-60dB dinamic range. That's much more than enough for solid RF hobby application! Quality is no issue at all if the unit is purchased from original Hugens seller US$60 or a proven reliable source from eBay or AliExpress. I payed US$42 shipping included. The unit had a perfect build quality and the 3 mixer stages had separate professional RF covers mounted on the frontend. My unit is a "Black" one. Some of the "White Salamander" units show low build quality. Firmware should be updated to enable better performance and more functions. If you have a good unit I'm shure that you will make the experience that the NanoVNA is as good as the MiniVNA considering a much lower price and the advantage of mobile use with the display or PC use on the bench. As I just said, it was the best purchase ever. My other two analyzers I will sell since the NanoVNA made them compeatly obsolete. Specially the expensive Rig Expert without two port capability at all.

[@JennyEverywhere]

While I wrangled with the vendor for the unit that had the white screen of death, I checked on the nanovna mailing list and found the original seller, a Chinese man named Hugen. He has a page on Alibaba, and I bought one of his for $60. First difference, he ships via DHL Hong Kong. It arrived in about five days. I spent the evening playing with it, and it works fine. I scanned my Comet all band vertical, and it had the appropriate dips and bumps you'd expect from a compromise antenna. The broken one's seller got back to me and promised a new unit for $5 shipping, and I could keep the bad one. I finished that transaction, and am waiting to see if I actually get the replacement. I expect it will take weeks, as they ship on the proverbial slow boat from China. Meantime, now that I don't have to return it, I'll see if I can fix the bad one. That's some suggestions on the mailing list, mostly reflowing solder joints and replacing some capacitors. I already found one solder bridge in the display cable joints. Didn't fix it, though. These things are very nice, but suffer from the eternal issue with Chinese electronics -- knock offs! I'll send you the link to Hugen's Alibaba listing later, when I'm not on my phone.

[@JennyEverywhere]

As promised, here is the page for Hugen's listing on Alibaba. I am VERY pleased with the service, and the device is working well. www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-2-8-Touchscreen-50KHz-900MHz_62232701280.html There is mention of a) PC software for it, and b) a version of the firmware that has LARGER FONTS. You sacrifice 2 tracks for the screen real estate, but that's ok if you 're just analyzing an antenna. I'm going to try that when I figure out the procedure for reflashing it.

[@ammocraft]

Gwen Patton Interesting...that link is to a supplier called Maggie, and appears to be mainland China and not Hong Kong. Is that correct?

[@JennyEverywhere]

@@ammocraft I guess so. The shipping track starts in Shenzen, goes to Hong Kong, then DHL picks it up and takes it to the US. So it starts in China but shifts to Hong Kong for the carrier to take it overseas. If I'm reading this tracking info correctly. I had to translate some Chinese. Here's part of the track. I use a translator that inserts the English inside [brackets] in-line. 线上 [On-line] Shipment Information Received 2019-09-23 09:53:13 越航深圳分拨中心 [Vietnam Airlines Shenzhen Distribution Center] Storing of all packages complete 2019-09-25 10:33:05 越航深圳分拨中心 [Vietnam Airlines Shenzhen Distribution Center] All packages have been screened, pending delivery after payment of shipping fee 2019-09-25 12:38:40 线上 [On-line] Payment successful, pending shipment 2019-09-25 14:27:06 越航深圳分拨中心 [Vietnam Airlines Shenzhen Distribution Center] Package has been shipped 2019-09-25 16:54:46 HONG KONG - HONG KONG Picked up 2019-09-26 01:57:00 HONG KONG - HONG KONG Arranged next transfer hopper 2019-09-26 04:18:00 CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA Clearance completed 2019-09-26 09:20:00

[@ammocraft]

@@JennyEverywhere For $60 express shipped, I took a chance! Thanks!

[@steveinkentucky]

I bought one, and mine has a full case around it, with shielding and connects to my phone without any problems. As for accuracy, I'm still exploring it... It was advertised as having the latest firmware.

[@stevenyemc]

I'm astounded how 38 quids worth of kit can do so much. It surely is built to a price. I'm yet to try the software on my PC so hopefully shouldn't be handling it and twating it about on the desk that often anymore. I have nothing to compare it with as I'm a bit of a noob at the hobby but when I was looking into getting a tool like this I read that a user has compared it with a 30,000 quid piece of kit and it's Bob on with it.

[@JohnHill-qo3hb]

Careful what you buy on eBay, you may just get value for money. I was very fortunate in that I got a really good deal on a RigExpert AA-230, love it... it wasn't 60 bucks though, quite a few more. As usual Kevin, great video.

[@davidsradioroom9678]

I like your tip about cleaning the Chameleon whip. A clean whip is a happy whip! 😁 Keeping the plastic on your VNA is a good idea.

[@n2kto]

Would you consider doing a step by step tutorial on setting up the Nanovna for swr and impeadence. I figured out the calibration part. Thanks for great content! N2KTO

[@loughkb]

It's already on it's way back to Ric. But as I recall, it's not too hard. Go to the display menu and there are buttons for all the traces. Turn off all but the first two. Then, click on 1, to select it, click back and there is a button labeled function, I think. Choose SWR. Click back and click the button for trace 2 to select it, click back, go to function and select smith. The smith chart is for impedance, but it also reads out at the top of the display in text. After you have it like you want it, use that recall/save button to save it to slot zero so it will load when you turn it on.

[@rjinnh3933]

Concidering the functionality of this device, for $60 I'll be ordering one from Amazon in a few months after I get into my new QTH and start erecting EndFed and Random Length areals. There are several listings of this same device on Amazon from $45 to $80 from different vendors. My selection will be based on reviews. If 'Sold By Amazon', then returns/replacements/refunds are EzeePeezee and I would simply cycle any bad units back to Amazon till I got a good one. I know, I know, shouldn't have to do that but for the price, why not? Thanks to Kevin for bringing this problem to our attention and also to the poster who said that new firmware may be on the way. PS: Funnie Story.... Several yrs ago I had a contract to TS/Repair 500 PCBs that failed Temp/Vibration/HI-LO Voltage testing, etc. These boards were about $200 each in inventory. The company had been collecting them for months and kept re-testing them in an attempt to complete production orders to IBM, with no success. IBM came in to audit material that they had paid for but not received and discovered that dozens of 'bad' boards were missing from my Impounded Material work area. Come to find out, the Production Manager was stealing bad boards from me to complete his shipping quotas. Since the boards were only FLAKEY and not DOA, he figured that IBM would never catch on but their BeanCounters caught him by cross checking serial numbers of missing boards with those of boards received by IBM. Oopsie-Dassie...... He was fired! HaHa After reading my Test Reports, IBM decided to scrap all those flaky boards and refused to pay the company for their Labor/Production costs. My good paying contract was also scrapped. BooHoo.... Maybe something like this is happening with the Nano-VNA. I've seen whole production lots sold off as Scrap only to be picked through and resold on retail markets by the scrapper. PPS: Those flaky boards were defective because the Feed Thru Drill Size was too small causing the Plate Thru process to randomly fail causing intermittent opens. Earlier production runs were OK but their PCB vendor reduced the Drill and Land size because they were getting Land to adjacent PC Run etch shorts. Both companies Under Bid to win their contracts then cut corners to Break Even then both companies eventually went bankrupt after IBM sued them for Breach of Contract.

[@vimmeh]

Thanks for the very informative video Kevin. I'm looking for a mini vna to get back into the radio hobby after a 25 year break, I guess it's a case of buyer beware and shop around for the right one. 73 and keep up the great work :)

[@williamstaylor5449]

Thanks for the video / information.

[@d3jake]

Which vendor did you buy from? Apparently there's an "official" link to a store on alibaba that's tied to the actual developer of the hardware and software.

[@loughkb]

Yes, it's provided in a couple of the other comments.

[@ElDiabloLocoPoco]

One caveat I found. Ordered 2 different source versions. Both had calibration sets included. The "50 ohm load" on one measured 43 ohms. The other load measured 50K ohms. I used one of my own known loads for calibration and they seem to be working after using a good load for calibration. AE5X just blog posted a comparison with a Keysight N9913A. I can't swing $12K or borrow one of those from work, but on a similar RTL filter test my results or close enough to AE5X. Good enough for HF and for the shack. On to filter tuning.

[@loughkb]

Both calibration sets I tried, the one that came with it, and the much more expensive set with my Blue miniVNA measured to withing 1/10th of an ohm around 50. Tested the cables too, they were also fine.

[@ElDiabloLocoPoco]

@@loughkb Yeah, I hit the jackpot. Was happy enough the Nano's worked, not a big deal to find a test load.

[@FrostyDog9186]

I just got a NanoVNA (a white one, no lizard) and it is definitely made from the finest Chinesium, so build quality is certainly on par for the price. But damn, what a price!

[@Liberty4Ever]

Oh! You left the protective plastic cover on the LCD. No wonder you aren't able to get it to calibrate properly. :-)

[@ralphwilmot6351]

Liberty4Ever be interesting to know how or why this prevents calibration.

[@Liberty4Ever]

@@ralphwilmot6351 - It was just a poor attempt at a joke, Ralph.

[@rjinnh3933]

@@Liberty4Ever No: It was a great joke. It happens to me every time! None of my stuff ever works until I peal off the protecting film, and then read the FM.....

[@steveinkentucky]

@@Liberty4Ever I liked it...

[@vidasvv]

i have 2 from different vendors, leaving plastic has NO effect leaving it on, but thats just me i guess. Sounds like he was given a bad unit ? 73 N8AUM

[@yt5aid]

Hello Kevin! I compared my nanoVNA (same black version) with other measuring instruments and yaesu 857d, the difference is no larger than ~10%. Try to upgrade firmware, at least you will get bigger letters. :)

[@ka3bhy]

Good video. I would like another thoughts on the road video.

[@jonathannuttall8369]

It's showing 0.2:1.65 SWR? Is that affecting your readings mine lists it as 1/#

[@loughkb]

With only 1.0 per division, it would be even flatter. A SWR of 2:1 would be the first line up from the bottom, 3:1 the second line. Regardless, moving the marker showed that the indicated SWR only changed by about 1/10th over 3MHz. That's incorrect unless you're hooked to a dummy load.

[@dmcarpman]

Was looking at buying on of those nano vna

[@stevejones8665]

I ordered one yesterday and it's supposed to be a Manchester supplier so shouldn't take too long getting to my Qth in Liverpool. Was around the £30 mark so if it works it should be brilliant. I have always wanted an Antenna Analyser but way too expensive up until this device.

[@dmcarpman]

@@stevejones8665 I have a rig expert AA35 it does the hf only just need it for the higher bands.

[@acestudioscouk-Ace-G0ACE]

This was very useful, thank-you.

[@glenmartin2437]

A neat little package. Too bad there is a QC/QA problem. N0QFT

[@vidasvv]

Hello Kevin, you were probably given a bad one ? I have 2 f from different vendors and to my surprise they were close enough to my HP-8712ES & 8711. There are lots of bad clones out there ! TNX for the upload! 73 N8AUM

[@muppetpaster]

What about a firmware update?

[@loughkb]

Made no difference.

[@jptucsonaz8503]

Howdy there Kevin! Ok, please forgive me... I know you are a sharp guy, but I have to ask based on the video... Um, did you ever try channel 1? All the vid shows you connected on ch 0... If they both do the same or similar, the problem is further down the line (a/d, ?), if ch 1 works, then clearly ch 0 is trashed. Sometimes the obvious check eludes us. I once spent 3 hours going in circles, not realizing that in the middle of a test, one of my o'scope channels bit the dust. Finally, I moved the probe and things started looking good once more. Good luck & 73 - John

[@loughkb]

I did, same problems. I didn't really have the desire to dig into it though. One, it's not mine. And two, it's brand new and bad. It's going back. If it's new, it should work. It's the principle of the matter to me. And if it ends up costing the seller, all the better. Maybe he'll get his act together if he feels it financially.

[@jptucsonaz8503]

@@loughkb copy that! I wasn't suggesting a repair, just curious if the other side worked. You're right! No matter how inexpensive a new product should always work! Sounds like they not have quality issues, but a poor testing procedure. Thanks for the quick response. 73 & have a great weekend. - John

[@USXPOP]

6:30 am, first cup of coffee and your video - that's the way to start the day. Good video. Keep them coming.

[@big_b_radical3985]

@@loughkb Get his act together? Naw, he'll just change name/storefront, pay for some fake reviews, and sell an initial boatload batch until complaints start. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[@recompile]

@@loughkb What, exactly, do you expect the seller to do to "get his act together"? Open up and test each unit extensively before tossing it up on ebay for $40? Give me a break.

[@K5RTO]

Long time watcher, first time comment. Great vid, as usual. 73

[@stewartrv]

I already ordered one a week ago, now I'll have to wait and hope I guess...

[@law2755]

thanks Kevin I've been looking at these

[@ralphwilmot6351]

Hi Kevin, thanks for your good work on this unit, I am waiting for my unit to come and will be interested to see how it makes out. Sorry that 3 thumbs down do not appreciate your good work, perhaps they are not hams or at least old-school. 73

[@edk4590]

Excellent as always Kevin. See you later maybe with Cal 😁. Hope you get it figured out, maybe a new unit.

[@RevGunn-jq3cq]

What would you recommend as an alternative instrument?

[@tglenn3121]

Too bad there isn't just an iPhone or Android App for doing VNA (with an adapter on the phone)

[@loughkb]

There is, it's the Blue miniVNA. It uses bluetooth as one type of data connection and an app to control it. I use that regularly in my other videos.

[@tglenn3121]

@@loughkb Ok, good to know. Thanks. I guess I'll have to check that out. The blue VNA I saw in your video seemed more like one you connect to a pc.

[@loughkb]

@@tglenn3121 You certainly can connect it to a computer, via USB. Then run desktop software. I think I demo'd it in my video on the miniVNA. It has both options.

[@KeepEvery1Guessing]

Now you having me anxious to getting around to testing the one that I bought. D*#n those stupid SMA connectors! (You did torque them down, I presume? They're reported to be fussy about that.)

[@loughkb]

Yes, when working with UHF through microwave, they should be torqued down. Not an issue way down at HF freqs though.

[@lyfandeth]

If many of them are defective and there's really no support or warranty recourse, fuggedaboudit. Get a different product. Did you use a credit card or other payment that can get you a refund?

[@loughkb]

You may have missed it in the video. It's not mine. Ric was able to get a refund on it.

[@mikemcdonald5147]

yep gotta pull out the grandpa glasses to see that text and I'm not that old LOL :) I have a lighted round magnifying glass I use for tiny stuff like that.

[@brunobassi2440]

I don't understand why talking about a bad nanovna. everything can be broken

[@TheRetiredtech]

Mine works like a champ...

[@brendanhynes473]

More Blue VNA, practical uses please!

[@loughkb]

I've been thinking about doing one, using it to aid in designing and tuning a low pass filter.

[@brendanhynes473]

@@loughkb That would be good, was thinking of basic day to day things it could be used for , testing of other test items , method of test, set up etc interesting subject , I have one but still learning how to drive it cheers

[@jack002tuber]

It took me a while to see this is an antenna analyzer. There is one I keep seeing used a lot that seems very good.I'm sure its far more expensive. But you need some quality too.

[@loughkb]

Oh, this is so much more than just an antenna analyzer. You can use it to measure filter circuits, feedline loss, all kinds of RF things. It's like a star trek tri-corder, but just for RF stuff. :-)

[@jack002tuber]

@@loughkb Thanks, I had no idea. And its the size of a lighter

[@stevejones8665]

@@loughkb I ordered one yesterday before watching your Video Kevin. I have always wanted an Antenna Analyser but never been able to afford one. If the one I get works then it will be a great addition to the test gear. Do you happen to know if these can be used as a signal generator?. Thanks for the FB Video Kev👍👍

[@caulktel]

I bought my NanoVNA from Amazon and it seems to work fine although I have to admit I don’t know exactly how to use it. Mine has the 50Khz to 900Mhz firmware in it. BTW, the white face ones are the inferior clones, the black ones are original according to the designer.

[@vidasvv]

there are butt loads of FAKE black ones to ! 73 N8AUM

[@AnwarAnwar-vf4fe]

so nice

[@JohnTarbox]

I have an "upgraded" version with a bigger screen, a full metal case and excellent shielding on the PC board. It is the NanoVNA-F which I purchased directly from the developer, BH5HNU. Here is the GitHub page for the product: github.com/flyoob/NanoVNA-F This version is more expensive (approx $120) but is a higher quality build with a bigger screen. I am extremely happy with this unit. One thing to be aware of with any of these units is that since they are open source, anyone can manufacturer a clone and many of those selling them are offering units of dubious quality. Buyer beware, not all units are created equally! I chose to support the ham who designed this particular version by purchasing directly from him. DE WA1KLI

[@n8nkqrp595]

Interesting vid and gadget. Even if they didn't have this apparent problem, I wouldn't buy any such device that relies on a USB port for power. They are just awful power connectors. Even if the port is used for data comm, if the gadget can be used in a stand-alone config, I'd insist on a std 5.1mm coaxial conn. 73

[@stevejones8665]

I wish they would use type C usb as they are far superior..I find Apple connectors are the worst.

[@stevec5000]

The USB port is for charging.

[@loughkb]

And also for data through to desktop software. It can be completely controlled via usb.

[@stevejones8665]

@@loughkb Have you found any decent Computer Software for them yet Kev..I received my Nanovna in the post on Friday it's a white one and looks like it works fine although the fonts are a bit small for my old eyes, using via a computer would solve that problem. Can't wait to start using it as it's much more than just an Antenna Analyser. I have never been able to afford an Analyser up until this device.amazing value for the money.

[@loughkb]

@@stevejones8665 I didn't get far enough to play with software. The defective units are already on their way back. I might pick one up for myself in the near future, once things settle out and good units are common. When I do, I'll do a more complete video on it, including software. It will be linux based though, I don't run any commercial software here.

[@charlesschindler1971]

Meow.....(from “Dennis the Cat”).

[@loughkb]

Several cats wandering around here, I'll pass that on.

[@charlesschindler1971]

Kevin Loughin.....Ha....ha....ha!

[@muppetpaster]

7:55 Extremely small?? Maybe connect it to your computer then?!!(or get glasses)

[@camworkstv]

Hello Kevin, NanoVNA is open source and various companies are producing them in different qualities. According to the groups.io nanovna group there are at least 3 versions of the original design out in the market, a good one, a bad one and a worse one. The white one is not better, btw. The good one is from Hugens (the developer) friend and available on Alibaba. Vendor is Wuyi Zeenko Industrial And Trading Co (Maggie). It's called NanoVNA-H. Here's a Link to the right Product: www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-2-8-Touchscreen-50KHz-900MHz_62232701280.html Link to the group: groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topics In the group there are some links to newer firmwares and a very good software named nanovna-saver. Direct link to the nanovna-saver: github.com/mihtjel/nanovna-saver There is also a version of the NanoVNA with bigger screen (4.3" with 640x480 pixels) which isn't original. It's called NanoVNA-F. I can't say anything about the build quality of this NanoVNA. 73 from Germany.

[@loughkb]

Thanks for the info, pinned so others will catch it also.

[@BentConrod]

Link to manuals and schematic, firmware updates (including larger font antenna analyser) and software. drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1-JViWLBOIzaHTdwdONX2RP8S4EgWxoND