Louis Spohr - Symphony No. 6 in G Major "Historische Symphonie", Op. 116

[@cesars8090]

Spohr's music aroused fascination in the public and the musicians of his time, but in Germany and especially England. A time when the public was more educated than today.

[@NovicebutPassionate]

"In this work the first movement represented Bach and Handel; the second movement represented Mozart; the scherzo represented Beethoven, sufficiently recognizable by the daring innovation of a theme for three drums; while the finale represented 'the very latest period' viz., Spohr himself. So Beethoven, third period and all, was already of the past, while Spohr was maintaining his own Mozartean forms and showing a surprising capacity to appreciate young Wagner, whose Fliegender Hollander and Tannhauser he carefully produced at Cassel." Donald Francis Tovey, A Companion to Beethoven's Pianoforte Sonatas, Revised edition 1998, The Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music, P. 283.

[@organman52]

Daring innovation? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA......'his own Mozartean forms?' Seriously??? And how unsurprising that he performed Wagner

[@egapnala65]

@@organman52 Have you never heard of the 7th Symphony for two orchestras or the double quartets Spohr was experimenting with back then? Personally I love his writing for winds but each to their own.

[@organman52]

@@egapnala65 I've heard my share of his material. I have never once had the compulsion to give any of his music a second listening. Yes, it is technically well crafted. It's just that his music constantly resembles one of the master composers of his time. What does Mozart's 40th symphony resemble? And then there is the entire issue of thematic connectivity within and between movements - a trait that is constant in Mozart and the masters but is nowhere to be found in Spohr.

[@egapnala65]

@@organman52 It could be argued that Mozart was simply Josef Myslivecek on a box but I'll leave that for you to discover for yourself. In the end it comes down to taste and I think there is much to enjoy among Spohr's output even if he isn't a "master". But then I prefer Boccherini to the German school of the period anyway. I admire rather than love Haydn for example.

[@organman52]

@@egapnala65 Why do you put quotation marks around 'master' ? Are all those who commit notes and other musical symbols to paper first-rate? And for your suggested discovery, please don't waste my valuable time.

[@martinlee5604]

I am listening to each of Spohr's symphonies in turn, and I am impressed. I have jotted down the word "lovely" several times. The idea for this one is excellent, though the third movement (Beethoven'sche Periode) is perhaps the least convincing. Goodness knows what other movements would have sounded like if he had lived into the next two centuries!

[@organman52]

I am glad he did not. Just him being born was already bad enough.

[@martinlee5604]

@@organman52 Oh dear! That made me laugh!

[@organman52]

@@martinlee5604 HAHAHAHAHA

[@lylecohen1638]

Perhaps one ought to compose a couple more!

[@BANERJEEWB]

6:32-6:36 occurs in a Schumann symphony with the same Harmony.

[@egapnala65]

I think the first movement poses an interesting question viz performance practice i.e. whether this is the Bach and Handel performance style that was prevalent back then. We know the early 20th century saw them as monumental romantics and it was only the advocacy of the likes of Munroe, Harnoncourt et al that has changed all that. I would have thought, being in time much closer to that tradition, Spohr might have followed the "authentic" route in terms of approach to things like orchestration et al.

[@organman52]

'Orchestration' implies what one does to an existing piece, say for piano, and expands it for orchestra. The correct word is 'instrumentation.'

[@egapnala65]

@@organman52 I note further down you comment that "its because thats all it is "orchestration". Instrumentaton is specific, the term as I have used it here implies stylistic considerations as well hence the et al.

[@egapnala65]

@@organman52 Have you come to terms with Myslivecek yet by the way?

[@organman52]

@@egapnala65 who?

[@Tijaxtolan]

Spohr forgot to put Schubert alongside Beethoven

[@garydmcgath]

Schubert, aside from his songs, wasn't all that well known in 1839. The Unfinished Symphony wasn't premiered till 1865.

[@BANERJEEWB]

The movement two sounds like something from Schumann. Probably from his second symphony.

[@coreylapinas1000]

The Mozart movement sounds romantic as all get out

[@garydmcgath]

Spohr's earlier music was generally his best. I like the first five symphonies quite a lot, but this one shows his inspiration starting to fade. The best movement is the first. The opening part is a fugal overture in the style of Bach's orchestral suites, and the middle part sounds much more like Handel, hinting in particular at "He shall feed his flock." Spohr worshipped Mozart, so it's disappointing that the second movement isn't more convincing. It's OK but doesn't really feel like either Haydn or Mozart. The third movement hints at Beethoven just by being a scherzo and using tympani as a thematic element, but again, it doesn't really capture Beethoven's spirit. The last movement is a biting parody, built of three thematic elements that get beaten to death. The title "Allerneuste" gives a clue to its intent, but I'm not sure exactly what it's a parody of. Perhaps it was what he saw as the excesses of the Romantic movement. I can hear it as mocking Berlioz. It could even have been directed at himself; he was sometimes accused of overusing motifs. Heard as serious music, it's banal, but considered as satire, it's fun.

[@dogdog92000]

Thought I was in a Viennese ballroom..

[@joshscores3360]

TBH the first movement is the only convincing one

[@Dodecatone]

The orchestration seems incredibly washed out and uninteresting, especially as compared to his contemporaries such as Berlioz.

[@organman52]

Because it is just that - orchestration. Evidently, he plunked his crap out on the piano and then arranged it for orchestra. This is hardly what Mozart or Beethoven would have done. They conceived their masterpieces IN THEIR orchestral existence.

[@organman52]

This piece sounds like a harmony exercise. Every note is predictable. That fugue is pedantic and plodding. The whole thing is a waste of valuable time.

[@erika6651]

Did you want to speak to the manager?

[@organman52]

@@erika6651 LOL

[@erika6651]

@@organman52 It really shines a light on why the popularity of composers like Spohr faded. If music lacks memorable melodic material, interesting transitions, or has little dynamic variation, it will not stand the test of time. I've been on a Spohr marathon the past few days, have listened to the 2nd up to this one, and this piece is definitely the least interesting of them.

[@Liebes2732]

​​@@organman52Almost every piece, with some exceptional, are harmony exercise. He wasn't a good composer, but, wasn't bad one as well. Yup, I don't like most of his works a lot.

[@organman52]

@@erika6651 Most importantly, there are no beautiful moments. And even worse, there are no miraculous thematic connections - within and between movements - that are exemplified in every single true masterpiece.