Lowko & GiantGrantGames vs Jayborino & Subsourian in 2v2 Mutation Deconstruction

Starcraft II: Co-Op Mutation Deconstruction
10 mutators rolled at random.
2 teams take turns playing the mutation challenge.
Each team selects commanders and map to try and beat it.
After each loss, a team removes one mutator from all future rounds.
Maps and commanders cannot be repeated.
First team to win a map wins the challenge.
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GiantGrantGames KZbin: ‪@GiantGrantGames‬
GiantGrantGames Twitch: / giantgrantgames
Lowko KZbin: ‪@LowkoTV‬
Lowko Twitch: / lowkotv
Jayborino KZbin: ‪@JayborinoPlays‬
Jayborino Twitch: / jayborino
Subsourian KZbin: ‪@Subsourian‬
Join me on Discord: / discord
Follow me on Twitch: / ctg526
Support me on Patreon: www.patreon.com/bePatron?c=21...

[@CtG-Games]

The 10 most liked comments with a unique mutator will have one of those mutators featured in the next challenge! Only 1 mutator per person. Vertigo not allowed.

[@chocobanana5262]

Just to be fair there should be 1 tip coming from CtG to all teams per game. BUT they'll need to ask for it DURING the game not during the picking phase, kind of like a lifeline when they're in dire situations in that game. Once they use it up in that game you shouldn't give them additional tips until the next game.

[@cbalinefourcba4615]

Yea, on this vid, hints are kinda random and not really fair when advice hit a team just on a whim (hesitant or not). Making it a life line 1 time per match not only makes it more like "game show", it makes things more fair. Hinting too much on little things (like that round saying how much gas Super Gary need) makes it not feel like they are playing on their own and kill the purpose of "match" aspect since mistake is a part of things that makes this series feel genuine. Commentate is good tho since it is good to point out their mistakes so the viewer know what is actually wrong with their play currently since sometimes viewer don't get why it is a mistake.

[@saltystrip8761]

yep, CtG's backseating is kinda infuriating to me especially because it seems so inconsistent and while I understand that it isn't super competitive it still feels kinda arbitrary and unfair

[@andyandnoah3571]

I think Gift Exchange would be fun. I love watching the Lowko & Grant duo.

[@Snipergod1024]

LowkoGrantGamingTV are honestly one of the best pairs you can get. JaySourian (Also known as Suborino) is also pretty funny as a team.

[@wedgeantilles8575]

BoomBots - that could be very funny to see how they manage (or not manage) to communicate with each other. I'd definitly love to see the BoomBot mutator in the next series! Big thumbs up for this series, I love the setup.

[@marcorodrigoramos]

heroes from the storm

[@barkspawn1906]

nice burrow pfp

[@zeldaholic]

This series is rad. It's like an all-star game of SC2 nerds having fun.

[@theunknowngamer1547]

Imagine how the early game would be if all of Amon's forces were cloaked?

[@Rosfuture]

Ngl the backseating is kinda irritating, sry

[@Anttown123]

Ultra mega annoying

[@cyan3284]

I think We Move Unseen is gonna be super interesting in how it'll force the teams to play around it

[@tech9d]

Imagine how short this video would be if CtG was helping both teams from the beginning instead of playing favorites :P

[@sinistressdreams7243]

Uh the audio is sometimes quite hard to listen to when you talk over Lowko or GGG, since your mic overdrives very fast. Like whats the point of talking when Lowko & GGG are louder and more clear to hear...

[@CtG-Games]

Thank you for the feedback; I will relay this to my editor.

[@sinistressdreams7243]

@@CtG-Games I appreciate it a lot! I'll give it a try again next time :D

[@LEkzorius]

This. It's rather painful to listen when you are talking at the same time as someone else. I'm trying to listen to both and my attention is split or I can't hear one of the speakers very well because of the noise.

[@jonsmith5058]

@@LEkzorius hard agree, either shhh CTG so we can hear Lowko and Grant or make them alot quieter. I personally would prefer to listen to them so shh seems easy

[@sinistressdreams7243]

@@jonsmith5058 Wouldnt it be perfect, if CTG only comments sometimes but not that often, listens to Lowko & GGG and when CtG talks, make the others quieter. Seems like a perfect solution for me

[@glenmcgillivray4707]

CtG. Whats that Darkness mutator that prevents you from seeing? Because watching these lads struggle with being unable to see seems amusing Edit: Afraid of the Dark. Spooky! Edit2: afraid of the dark apparently hits spectators so would be difficult to cast. Bummer. So let's keep the players in the dark with Aggressive Deployment instead! Enemies. On your face. All game.

[@notoriousthief]

Afraid of the Dark, the Halloween mutator, and one I wanted to select

[@CtG-Games]

I'll have to veto Afraid of the Dark, since 1. It's a very laggy mutator, the game takes long enough to load as it is 2. It's not very good viewing experience for most people since you don't really see much of the map. Can you pick something else or should I just put Darkness in?

[@glenmcgillivray4707]

@@CtG-Games it'd probably work better if the watchers didn't get hit by the same mutator. But we can probably make the map dark in other ways. Or just use aggressive deployment. That always keeps players in the dark 😋

[@CtG-Games]

@@glenmcgillivray4707 There's no way to darken the map for players only without making the startup process take extremely long. Please keep in mind that I'm basically running the whole thing and hosting and recording, so extra setup time for afraid of the dark is absolutely not worth for what it adds to the game. Aggressive deployment works; just put it on your original comment.

[@Daldalusda1st]

These guest missions are always fun

[@williamduan2322]

I am fairly certain that props can in fact spawn from void rifts. I saw a solo on TotP with void rift + prop where the player cleared all the buildings and the props still spawned from the void rifts that spawned in the base. I believe the same goes for boom bots and kill bots

[@BRA1NST0RM]

44:58 that's really hilarious how CtG was reacting to the use of H&H bombing platform 😂

[@kalorathekau]

This is a fun series; I'm glad you're continuing it! What are your thoughts on making the video length longer than the actual content, so that it's a little harder to predict the winner based on the video length?

[@wedgeantilles8575]

The problem with this seems to be the yt algorithm. If the video is 2 hours and after 1 hour 30 the challenge is complete, people will stop watching. And - according to what I have heard - that is a bad thing for the YT algorithm. It devalues the video because people do not watch it full.

[@sinistressdreams7243]

@@wedgeantilles8575 yes, you are 100% right. The % watchtime of a video decreases which will affect the channel aswell. If you happen to do that often enough, it can actually lead KZbin to not showing your videos anymore since they are "not interesting" to watch due to low %watchtime

[@kalorathekau]

@@wedgeantilles8575 That makes sense; it's a shame that the algorithm ruins things like this

[@jonsmith5058]

@@kalorathekau it has to, otherwise people would pad their videos to make them seem longer and get more revenue.

[@Machodapussy]

Oh my god! I'm huge of all of you! But it's first time I've ever see face of THE Subsourian himself (still fan of his comments for my SC wiki contributions). Really fun format. GG WP

[@mojichirin]

Boom bots to really test their coordination

[@wedgeantilles8575]

Oh, and on Vertigo: Please no vertigo. I hate to play it - if it is one round I can manage it, but I felt a little dizzy afterwards. I absolutly do NOT want to watch it, if I have to watch 1 hour of it I guess I would just skip the entire video because I think it could literally make me a little ill. If you absolutly have to add vertigo, than for one single map only and not for a 1 hour+ run. And I remember Harstem saying the same, he just felt ill after playing it - so I guess there are a few who get dizzy when they watch it.

[@JayborinoPlays]

Thanks CtG!

[@3psilon.]

You backseat too much

[@PastryScent]

I had that dead of night reflection issue in my game today too. It was in a different spot by the west base mineral line.

[@benignsentient6772]

It looks like just a really well rendered oil patch... a feature?

[@94kronos94]

It might be cool the possibility to change 1 mutator for the other team with one of the same diff or higher

[@bogusjuan4998]

I want to see how long it takes them to realize what is going on with the diffusion and life leech combo without any help. Since I can only pick one I go with life leech

[@jingxuanwang8674]

I feel like you can just go Raynor and Nova, pick Dead of Night and fly both your Command Centres (after getting some vikings as P3) to corner and then rely on supercloak and Hyperion to clear the map, to get it on first try.

[@Zederyx]

depends if the enemy rolls spotters, also some of the attack waves have air to air damage dealers. so lots of RNG there. also depends on mutators.

[@jingxuanwang8674]

@@Zederyx I mean like, if Twotuuu or Dr. Lila is playing, they can most definitely get some Vikings out before floating the CCs to the corner. I don't believe any of the rolled mutators actually affects the cheese (except if you're super unlucky with propagator spawns).

[@Zederyx]

@@jingxuanwang8674 vikings and libs cannot sustains well permanently, maybe with enough ravens. but you'd run out of defensive drones with no money. i'm not sure if you were referencing this particular run or any random hypothetical run, but some of the mutators that could ruin this strat are orbital strikes (structures too bulky to dodge), going nuclear, blizzard, missile command, purifier beam (although could patrol but still difficult). so ya the strategy could work, but again there's definitely RNG involved. the one advantage you'd have is p3 nova does clear the structures extremely quickly if you know what you're doing - but there are mutators that could make her life more difficult as well.

[@jingxuanwang8674]

@@Zederyx Sorry for the confusion. I'm talking about this current run, after the first map vetos. There is no environmental mutators involved. If one Raven can be rushed out as P3 Nova (which I don't think you can), you can basically sustain a lot. Hyperion can be used as defense too.

[@Esponer]

@@jingxuanwang8674 Void Rifts will start spawning Void Rays and Mutalisks after about 10 minutes. So you'd want to do this on Round 2, after removing Void Rifts. At that point it's possible. Slim Pickings is actually a huge benefit here as it will give Nova money for Airstrikes.

[@Alzarath]

One thing I'd like less of is commentating "Build this, build this, build this." It can get a little annoying. That and maybe restraining yourself a little more with tips. Otherwise I do really enjoy this series.

[@TheHalogen131]

Nice to see Jayboboy getting more attention!

[@heliospa8043]

Polarity

[@151alonso]

I wonder if we can use a mutator where units every now and then become firebats using the units abilities - as Air units beccome air firebats, and if it is a zergling, a low hp firebat.

[@garretamiller]

Competitive co-op, nice!

[@brickstacker6533]

Chaos Studios

[@limchuanzhe9825]

10 mutations are gonna be pain

[@eristef]

Would be fun if they had to do Bonus Objectives too.

[@AresBroken-h7w]

Hero’s from the storm s a tough one

[@NishiTheRat]

honestly with the bathroom talk I'd simply say to the guy on the way out "hey the other stall was occupied and dude wasn't here yet so I went, the bad timing is not on me or anyone, wanna chew me out for it? go ahead but I got places to be so do it in the mirror"

[@anarchistlilia]

I love how CtG is having a brain anuyrsm while they are still learning their commanders

[@mateusinhogameplays2319]

I like that candy one The the one you need to buy candies

[@_-AJAL-_]

Vertigo

[@eristef]

Mountain GiantGrantGames Amazing

[@Cyricistic]

Wouldn't this be more fair if both teams played before changing any mutations? For example, start with both teams playing against all 10 mutators. Then have both teams ban a mutation, and ban maps. Then have them both play again without changing anything, and repeat. That way they're both on even playing fields and it shouldn't take any longer than this setup.

[@CtG-Games]

Thank you for the feedback; I appreciate the constructive criticism. I've considered this for fairness. The main advantage of this is that we'll get to see the 10 mutators in all their glory for two whole games. The duration of those games of course would vary depending on the mutator combinations. The primary drawback of this suggestion is that the setup to the games requires a lot of time because we use arcade maps to unlock all prestiges and levels for the participants, and to allow for observers. The loading screen, mutation selection, and prestige/mastery choice take considerably longer than a regular co-op map (around 10 mins each!). The secondary drawback will be running out of commanders faster. Since commanders cannot be reused, The 18 commanders will run out after 9 rounds (2 commanders per round). If 2 of those rounds are full 10-mutators, that may take out too many good commanders before the challenge actually becomes beatable, depending on the mutator roll. The decider for me is that these recordings take roughly 1.5 - 4.5 hours. And that's a lot to ask from 4 participants who are on different parts of the world, and some have to wake up at stupid hours just to make the recording. Logistics are difficult enough, and things that would extend the challenge would be a net-negative for player experience. So I will unfortunately have to either keep the current system or allow the players to veto mutators from the start.

[@Cyricistic]

@@CtG-Games Thanks for the reply! I'll readily admit that I didn't consider the things you mentioned. While I think it would be doable to come up with a solution for eliminating commanders too early, the second concern you brought up makes the commanders issue seem like a secondary concern. That's definitely a long time to get several busy people to band together to do a recording! I can definitely see why it would be a problem to try to make it a longer affair, and if you extended it so that it became a multi-day affair, it would complicate the heck out of the whole thing. That makes a ton of sense, and I really appreciate you taking the time to explain it. I thoroughly enjoy these games, and I miss when you and Lowko used to play co-op way more frequently. I actually found your channel through his, and have really enjoyed your videos and expertise with this game. So thanks again for the explanation, and thanks for the videos!

[@luthien4176]

Awesome content.

[@Alex06CoSonic]

32:18 Macro man? Someone call up the village people, we should do a song... Macro, macro man (yeah) I gotta be a macro man Macro, macro man (yeah, yeah) I oughta be doin', more micro Every one wants to be a macro, macro man To have the kind of econ always in demand Takin' in that second gas, go man go, Mine-outs in the natural, your bases grow

[@Mr.Bambogea]

I would say for feedback making their volume lower, to be audible , but still way lower than your's . And that's good content, hope for more POG

[@paulkruger5456]

That dude talking trough the players is anoying as hell.

[@TheBlackLightMan]

Its so funny to watch people not experienced with coop fumble about with the difficult mutations

[@Olekragh1980]

I love the format, and the participants, but ctg's talking over the players just ruined it for me :/

[@space_friend]

- Use this comment as a vito for microtransactions (if there will be one).

[@carlocano7138]

Oh no, worst Karax ever. It was so painful

[@ken1399]

@CtG-Games I’d rather not listen to you talking over the players the whole time please sir.

[@smilejakoby]

Ctg, shut up during the gameplay please

[@jeremothhotmailcom]

For the handicap stall bathroom... Ask the person confronting you where his office is, so that next time if the only toilet available is the handicap one, you'll take your dump on his desk instead of in the only one available!