Lowrider CNC 2 build - overview and modifications

In march of 2019 I started to assemble the LowRider CNC v2 not knowing how deeply pulled in I would get.. Here are the results
Link to Some Old Guy Coding where he talks about laser connection
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[@rlxd85]

Thanks for sharing everything on your thingiverse account!

[@TheDrmastermind]

really nice design, wish I had seen this before I setup my lowrider. Your wiring looks 1000x better than what I ended up with.

[@KarlisZalitis]

Thank you :) The wiring was a nightmare to get done..

[@lobillosid]

Karlis, I really liked your Lowrider, but I would like you to clarify me regarding the TB6600 drivers that you are using. The point is that you say in the video (min 8:25) that you use for the x axis, you run the two motors in parallel. Is this coming from the same drive? So this Drive can handle the current consumed by the two motors?

[@KarlisZalitis]

Hey Juan! Yes, the X axis driver runs two motors, connected in parallel. The driver outputs around 4Amps of current, which means each stepper sees around 2 amps - close to their rated current

[@fredbloggs5965]

Hi, thanks for all of your videos and 3d files. I have burnt my spindle out while testing, I have a 1.5kw and VFD as you have. Did you wire your pin 4 to ground and if so did you first wire it to the spindle body and then to the vfd and the same ground as the power cable is connected to?

[@KarlisZalitis]

Hey! Sorry to hear that your spindle got damaged. When wiring my spindle I closely followed the user manual directions, and it worked for me - honestly do not remember the wiring scheme. But I would recommend to contact the spindle dealers for help, it is possible my spindle and wiring diagram differs from yours. Good luck!

[@fredbloggs5965]

@@KarlisZalitis Hi, thanks for you reply. My spindle got fried but I did have a leaky roof so not too sure what caused the problem. Roof fixed and new spindle ordered. :-)

[@malarikavela]

You are right about that Y axe need more rigidity, but why do You think that some kind of angular support need to be inward (facing to moving router) instead of outward? You could redesing this part and only drawback is to use little longer tubes.

[@KarlisZalitis]

You are right, and I considered this modification as well - not using the second pair of tubes. But in the end I opted for my solution, because of the ease of upgrade and perceived superior rigidness. And I did not need to model new corner braces for longer X tubes. AND I can use the upper tubes for extra spindle support. But you are right, your suggestion would work too, without adding as much weight as I did

[@malarikavela]

@@KarlisZalitis Yes, I agree with You that rigidity is superior this way, but CNC theory with steppers says that stepper torque should overcome friction forces and not the inertial forces. I guess that is why You use stronger steppers (and I hope on 24V power supply). Whole new ball game would be to use servos but then the price would be spicy :) Anyway thumb up for Your work and explanation

[@doodleydude7833]

Is the y axis only sitting there held by gravity, or there are something holding it down to the table?

[@KarlisZalitis]

Hey! In this video the whole gantry is held on by gravity, but since that I have made some modifications to clamp down on the other side of the table and hold the gantry in place. See my other videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/roHbgJmmiK2slbM and kzbin.info/www/bejne/boq0fYJ9jrySoqM

[@kylek29]

With regard to the T-Nuts, those are usually overpriced. What I did with my MPCNC was to drill a hole on the underside slightly smaller than a traditional nut outer diameter and pressed the nut into the wood. Way cheaper and the wood will hold them secure with friction.

[@oldowl4290]

Karlis, did you look at a lot of various CNC designs before settling on the LowRider? That's my issue now. There are so many, this being one of the cheaper options, but it's hard to choose. I'm also looking at the Maslow/Maker M2 but it also doesn't seem like it saves too much space and despite seeing that it seems to work well for people, the whole concept of hanging a CNC and router by chains just seems like a flawed design over long term use. Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts on your Lowrider and have you moved on to anything else?

[@KarlisZalitis]

Hey! Yes, I looked around before deciding to build a Lowrider - in my opinion it provides best rigidity to price ratio. And I agree about Maslow, it's good for simple part cutting but on Lowrider you can do much more. For example, some 2.5D machining, cutting slots in ready made parts, cutting plexiglass or polycarbonate etc. Only downside is that it's rather slow and not that precise when compared to some more serious machines, but hey, you can't beat the price

[@oldowl4290]

@@KarlisZalitis I saw someone actually using it for plasma cutting too which is wild. I'm currently exploring all options. I can allocate ~5k total.

[@KarlisZalitis]

5k opens some options. I built mine for around 1k but could have done it with 700€ or less

[@cantsitstill9056]

Very nice build! I wish I can spend more time on getting my setup so well organized.

[@KarlisZalitis]

Thank you! :)

[@alexisoliveras7341]

Hi I already buy all the hardware what controller are you actually using i was thinking of buying a blackbox controller whta do you think about it?

[@KarlisZalitis]

Hey :) I'm using MKS board with good results and it was cheap. I have no experience with black box controller, so I cannot comment on it

[@alexisoliveras7341]

@@KarlisZalitis could you provide a link to it I am comparing prices 🤔 thanks

[@nunopereira6092]

That X-axis gantry in general and toolhead in particular look very heavy. How are those speeds doing ? I'm building a regular LR2 too.

[@KarlisZalitis]

I have set low acceleration an jerk values in marlin software to soften the initial movement. Also, the whole construction "looks" heavy more than it is. Have not weighed the components but I believe the spindle motor itself contributes more to overall weight than the other components

[@nunopereira6092]

@@KarlisZalitis Ah, I see. Haven't got to that point yet. I've tried to keep the weight and the center of gravity low enough by using 25mm x 1.5mm stainless steel tubing, and was thinking about modifying the 611 and Y plates to spread the distance between the support tubes (I'll be using a 1100W corded router myself). Your solution actually looks smarter, I might be inspired by your designs :)

[@masomaker]

I really like what you did here. I am going to do something similar to increase structural integrity. For your router plate + dust hose connector did you make a custom design? I would be curious to know how you made it.

[@KarlisZalitis]

Thanks :) The vacuum hose adapter was made in Fusion360, but it does not work that well. I guess the inlet is too far from cutting action, or the shop-vac itself is too weak. If you want, I can add Thingiverse link for the adapter

[@jonasschmid3382]

First of all, I really like your video. I'm am planning on building a CNC machine too, but I am really struggling whether I should build an MPCNC or a Lowrider 2. Since you build both of them, have you made any experience in terms of the advantages and disadvantages of those both and for what use cases can you recommend either one?

[@KarlisZalitis]

Between the two CNC's, the LowRider for me seems to be the better way to go. But it depends on many aspects - available space in your workshop, the size of parts you will be cutting etc. Also costs are a consideration, because LowRider is more expensive to build. I plan to make a video, where I compare my two CNC's, I hope that would help someone to decide.

[@jonasschmid3382]

@@KarlisZalitis That would be great!

[@mpa568]

Hey. Really nice changes. I totally understand why you made that changes. Today i finished the gantry of the LowRider2. Depending on how its working with Plasma Cutter i will do the same change. Its a Bit wobbly like you said. @Jonas Schmid A friend ob me build the mpcnc. Mpcnc ist better for small Workshop. Lowrider2 is better for bigger size. Expecially the lengt of the table does Not matter at the LowRider2. The cost for lowrider2 are higher than mpcnc. In principle, bigger size bigger price. The belts, rails, cables cost per meter.

[@kylek29]

I've built an MPCNC and I'm retiring it for an LR2. As others have said, I think the LR2 is good if you plan to ever do large items or sheet goods, and the setup/design is a tad more straightforward. The MPCNC quickly became "too small" for my needs even at the largest recommended size, the LR2 is also easier to grow the size at a later date. If you have the space available for it, I'd just start with the LR2.

[@Makelifehappennow]

Nice design. Very logical. I have two custom cnc mills running on mach3 and plan to build an lr2. What accuracy and repeatability can you get cutting wood Thanks Mike

[@andersvchristensen]

Very cool cnc and a nice video, thank you. What wire do you use (size)? Regarding the double layer, did you just print an extra set?

[@KarlisZalitis]

Thank you for your kind words! :) The wire is 4x0,75mm (18 AWG) About double layer - yes, same clamps and supports. I had to lengthen the Z tubes too

[@85miga]

Wow, very nice! Where did you get the parts for the lowrider from? Did you order them from the states? Import tax makes the deal quite pricey in my case...

[@KarlisZalitis]

The parts were sourced from ebay - there are many sellers who offer the goods from within EU, so I do not have to worry about import taxes. Other small thingies (pulleys, belts e.t.c.) are from usual suspects, did not have to pay any taxes on them.

[@sallerc]

What is the name of the new connections and the "pliers" you talk about @ 15:03 ? Thanks

[@sallerc]

Maybe I found it, is this the one? www.banggood.com/DANIU-0_08-6mm-Terminal-Crimping-Tool-Bootlace-Ferrule-Crimper-Wire-Cord-p-1162248.html?akmClientCountry=SE&cur_warehouse=CN

[@KarlisZalitis]

Jup, that's the right tool :) The connections are called ''ferrules''

[@sallerc]

Perfect, I will order one of those! I have small connectors similar to the ones that you rejected that I planned to use on my MPCNC. But they where much work to install and probably not very reliable, so ended up not using them.

[@tonylatham5915]

Thanks for posting this. What is the black material your rollers are riding on?

[@KarlisZalitis]

It is laminated plywood cut-off, used for concrete formwork. It is much more wear resistant, but also more slippery. I used it to get a straight as possible plane for the rollers to roll on

[@tonylatham5915]

@@KarlisZalitis Thanks. My wheels are turning.

[@frederickwood9116]

As others have said it’s a nice looking build. Are you finding the belts stretch more (possibly due to the extra torque in the motors with the extra weight in the build) ? I saw your Y axis groove too. Again a really nice idea. Are you finding that is sufficient to keep things aligned for y axis?

[@KarlisZalitis]

Thank you :) All the upgrades I done have reduced the backlash significantly but I still have some left.. It seems that the source is in the Z axis rocking back and forth in the side plates. Still trying to figure out an easy fix. The Y groove made huge difference - before I had issue where whole gantry drifted to one side during the cut, making some major error in finished part. Now the issue is gone. I am getting approx. 0.5 to 1mm (on heavier cuts) of error.. not great not terrible

[@frederickwood9116]

Kārlis Zālītis I may have to actually build mine before I can truly understand where you mean the wobble is. Are the “side plates” the y plates holding the y wheels? I was also curious if you looked at implementing triangles on the Z “carriage “. You have runners on the top and bottom rails so joining them with diagonals might help! For my build I’m still only looking for tubes.

[@KarlisZalitis]

Yep, I ment the y plates that hold the y wheels and the Z axis tubes. The problem lies within the Z tubes - essentially the whole gantry is kept up with the Z threaded screws, which is a single pivot point on both sides. The gantry can move from side to side a little bit because there is only one point each side that supports the axis. I hope I am making sense. :D Can you explain more about the triangles you mentioned? I am not quite sure, if I understood you right..But I am interested in this mod! At the moment both the upper and lower floor of the X gantry is connected with the router itself - I have clamps both on the upper and the lower plate

[@frederickwood9116]

That makes sense about the z screw being a weak point. I get it now. I’m not sure my triangle idea can help but here it is. So if you look at bridges the structure is normally about triangles and curves under tension. This is used to create a light but strong structure that can span a river etc. For the x carriage with the two levels you have the 4 runners (one on each x tube) If each runner was connected to as many other runners as possible with light rods or even strips of plywood it would improve the rigidity of that unit. But as you point out, that is not the focus of the currently biggest error. The only thing I can think of for the z screws straight off my head is to add more threaded nuts to the screws. Possibly heavier screws too. Humm I’ll take a look at images and see what else comes to mind. I’m no structural engineer but I do enjoy such problems.

[@frederickwood9116]

So I see one screw and one fixed nut. But there are 2 runners on each z axis tube. So it should be very rigid. At least it looks like it should be. Is that nut at a point roughly level with the cutting bit as it hits wood? If there were two nuts for the screw and one was above the cutting point and the other below then pressure for the bit movement against wood should be negated completely. But I’m still fuzzy as to how the 4 z runners on a side plate are letting any movement happen. Possibly adding more runners on the z tubes. Try adding another nut as far away from the current one as possible. This is probably going to shorten your z axis travel but if it’s easy to try then it’s worth a try. Will any nut work or do you need a special one for the screw? By the way, I found tubes for an ok-ish price. :-) €60 for two meters. I think you have about 12 meters of tube currently... right?

[@alexisoliveras7341]

A 2.2kw water cooled spindle will be to much for the lowrider right?

[@KarlisZalitis]

Yeah, it's a bit overkill - the nema17 steppers won't be able to push the spindle to it's full potential

[@alexisoliveras7341]

@@KarlisZalitis thanks I almost make that mistake with the 1.5kw what do you do to fit it in the lowrider?

[@KarlisZalitis]

I have a custom mount available in thingiverse - check video description

[@alexisoliveras7341]

@@KarlisZalitis with the 1.5 kw it will cut faster and lot less noisy that with a router right?

[@KarlisZalitis]

It will be more silent for sure! I am cutting on average 30mm/s at DOC of 3mm and 6mm endmill

[@benjamintaylor6909]

Great job! Do you have a parts and components list ? Thanks

[@KarlisZalitis]

The plans, parts list and tutorials are available at v1engineering.com - under LowRider CNC. It is the same machine, only with some doubling of the parts

[@joseluiszanotti9209]

Using the 4 tubes give you more rigidity? you comfirm it?

[@KarlisZalitis]

Short answer - yes, definitely

[@redshadow3095]

where did you get the larger nema 17's

[@KarlisZalitis]

Hey! I searched them on ebay, including the keyword ''65Ncm'' - this is the torque value of these bigger steppers

[@julienquiltu1417]

You did an very good job and it helped me a lot. Can you share your custom er11 router ? Big thanks.

[@KarlisZalitis]

Thank you! Added the link to my CAD designs in the video description - there you can find the files for mounting the spindle. The spindle itself is an air cooled 1.5kW model with VFD, there are a lot of them out there in ebay and aliexpress, just choose the one that suits you best

[@namocrafts1101]

@@KarlisZalitis hello buddy I hope u doing well ? I finish building my low rider and am using spindle 1.5 water cooled with VFD also my board is SKR v1.3 and my drivers are MTC5160 which handle up to 20 amps .but am having problem with Z axis it can’t hold the weight when am using 1.5 spindle . Any changes u made to make it to work ? It’s chattering when am lifting up, when I take the spindle off it works perfectly . I would appreciate if u can show me what modifications u did in the code ? I wrote one place u said u changed the movements to make it slow in the code . Any advice I appreciate it Thank u sir and waiting for ur next project :) Like always keep the nice work . God bless

[@KarlisZalitis]

@@namocrafts1101 Hey Dan! I searched for MTC5160, but did not get any result. Did you mean TMC 5160 motor driver? If so, then I see that it can handle up to 4 amps of current, they should work just fine for the machine. The problem could be in many places - 1) I am using a 1mm pitch lead screw, instead of 2mm. This helps the motor to hold the X gantry stationary when there is no current flowing in the motor and it ''gears down'' the stepper for greater torque. One of my Patreons had a problem, when he powered the machine down, the X gantry fell down, because the cogging torque of the stepper motors was not enough to hold the axis upright. 2) Have you checked how much current is flowing through the steppers? Maybe you need to tune the motor drivers to add more current. I did it with a DC clamp meter to get a rough measurement, there are some UNI-T branded ones on Ebay. If the current is less than 0.5A, then it would struggle to spin the motor. Nominal should be 1.5 to 2 amps, but check the motors so they do not overheat. 3) Is the wiring ok? The motor will spin if only one of the wire pairs is connected.. Hope this helps!

[@namocrafts1101]

@@KarlisZalitis thank u for your respond . I’ll change the lead screw to 1mm pitch see if it can hold the weight . And yes I meant TMC5160, this kind of drove it dosnt have potentiometer you adjust the current that y I thought i might be able to tune the current in the config.h .

[@KarlisZalitis]

You can try to measure the current first, maybe it is ok. I am not sure, if the current can be adjusted through the code, but maybe I'm wrong..

[@GRNCHdubs]

Is it possible to link to the spindle you are using?

[@KarlisZalitis]

Hope this works www.ebay.com/itm/1-5KW-ER11-4-Bearing-Air-cooled-Spindle-Motor-Inverter-Frequency-Drive-VFD-CNC/254071223711?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[@GRNCHdubs]

@@KarlisZalitis perfect thank you

[@the-bu3lb]

Can you list the parts you used to make the modifications please files ect anything that can help us makers make what you are using. Thanks

[@KarlisZalitis]

For the double layer X gantry all you need is longer Z tubes and extra set of printed corner braces and X gantry tubes, that is it. Other solutions strongly depend on the router used, size of the table etc.

[@tomnorman5461]

Out of focus...hurts my brain!

[@KarlisZalitis]

Potato camera, sorry about that :)