LS3 VS LT1-IS NEWER REALLY BETTER? (GEN 4 VS GEN 5 6.2L)

[@Dr.Lewis-BL7]

If anyone should be rewarded , it is that man there. Completely Awesome. I can not thank you enough.

[@GTOGregory]

I've owned both the GenIV and GenV engines. I take the LT1 hands down. It's much easier to drive even with power adders. The direct injection is more accurate. Plus, the LT engine will get a touch better fuel economy.

[@nowayjose596]

The issue with the Gen 5 stuff is that it seems to be more complex/sensitive to tuning. Even the Terminator X for the LT motors costs twice as much as for the LS stuff. VVT and DI are here to stay so eventually the learning curve and costs will flatten out but I don’t think we’re there yet.

[@theyhatehimbecausehetoldth7576]

I think going to gen 5s are diminishing returns compared to the ls when you consider everything cost wise.

[@sepg5084]

@@theyhatehimbecausehetoldth7576 it's economics. New stuff will be more expensive than old ones, and if the new stuff becomes popular enough then the prices will come down if the manufacturers develop economical ways of doing it and decide that lowering the price is worth it. The advantage of direct injection is on motors with boost. E85 + direct injection would help make the motor run safely at higher boost levels. Everything has diminishing returns. You can't apples-to-apples compare decades old tech that has a ton of aftermarket support to new tech that has limited aftermarket support. If you like old, affordable tech then go with a carbureted LS.

[@Borderline5440]

@@sepg5084 There's really no reason to run a carb on an LS. That's just a step backwards for no benefit.

[@Borderline5440]

@@theyhatehimbecausehetoldth7576 That's why a majority of people are still LS swapping and not using the LT. The direct injection more than anything really ratchets up the cost.

[@timothyshearer6538]

@@Borderline5440 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gH21koxppKZ-o8k&ab_channel=RichardHoldener obviously this is only one setup, but as far as I know, carburetors and efi are very comparable in terms of performance. You do lose drivability (coldstarts, gaskets drying out) with a carb, but it eliminates the need for a fancy ecu, injectors, rails, fuel pump, etc. I'm trying to say that there are benefits to both and acting like there aren't is just close minded. Edit: found another - kzbin.info/www/bejne/e3PEnaWmjpxmgMU&ab_channel=RichardHoldener

[@matrox]

I'm running a 6.2 LT1 in my 17' Super Sport Camaro 6 speed manual trans. Bad ass car.

[@camshaftsteve]

Nice work Richard! The guys at Late Model Engines have told me they have been seeing more power from the LT than the LS3. Looks like your test indicates this might be true.

[@andyharman3022]

I have seen some online cylinder head flow databases that show the LS3 head flowing more than the LT1. The LT1 has a smaller intake valve than the LS3, 2.13 vs 2.165". The LT1 exhaust port is lousy. The reasons that the LT1 outperforms the LS3 in factory configuration is higher compression, longer cam duration, and VVT. The LS3 can be tuned to match the LT1 compression and cam specs, but will give up some low end torque because of no VVT.

[@Ws6Ms]

Finally someone gets it

[@dennisrobinson8008]

Andy I saw it the same way... The LT1 heads out the box do good up to .500" lift. Ported it's going to around 340 CFM and all of us who've been in these discussions know a good ported LS3 head can get to 300CFM by .400" and 360-370CFM... Aftermarket replacement LS3 heads such as the Mast can get up to 410 420 CFM... So LS3 has more potential if you go by the airflow. The VVT is a big deal in that it can add 50 ft-lb or so between idle and 4000 rpm, so you can run a "big" cam and have impressive torque in the driving rpm range. Also compression is a big deal and if you look on the coyote where stock gen 2 makes 400 ft-lb and the gen 3 makes 420 ft-lb, the gen 3 has 12:1 vs 11:1 on the gen 2. That's about 4% increase in torque per every point of compression increase. 4% of 400 ft-lb is 16 ft-lb, so most of that 20 ft-lb increase was due to the compression.

[@ultrazls1]

cant compare them with dry flow. THere is no fuel in the lt1 head with DI. the ls3 does not flow as the numbers suggest with fuel . An lt1 switched to port only configuration loses 40+ hp with no other changes. From fuel in head and airflow being much less than a flow bench peak flow numbers are not the entire story either. fast forward 3 years from this video and things are even uglier. Stock bottom end stock cube heads cam lt1 are getting near 700 rwhp lol. On e85. Running near 15:1 compression on the street. Good luck doing that with an sbe ls3

[@Charlie_Prinz]

Those LT1 NA power numbers are amazing. WOW......

[@hoonaticbloggs5402]

The low torque is lovely. Vvt

[@Charlie_Prinz]

@@hoonaticbloggs5402 Best of both worlds, for sure! :)

[@malamri424]

numbers are higher than usual because of the way they run the dyno, i.e. long tube headers, no mufflers/cats, open throttle body, and low fluids temperature

[@Prestiged_peck]

@@malamri424 and? Compared to an LS3 it's still a massive improvement

[@jaydubb71]

Yall be sure to remember this fun fact. LS3 compression ratio is 10.7:1. LT1 compression ratio is 11.5:1. That's a BIG contributor to the power of the LT1 and Direct Injection is the ONLY reason why the LT1 can run 11.5:1 compression ratio. Injecting the fuel into the chamber COOLS THE AIR IN THE CHAMBER THAT WAS HEATED UP DUE TO COMPRESSION. I wish I could find that article explaining all of this. I read it a few years ago. When I find it, I will post the link here. And for your reading pleasure... L83 = 11.1 CR L86/LT1 = 11.5:1 CR LT4 = 10:1 CR L8T = 10.8:1 CR I can't wait for the price fall...

[@joemeyers1016]

Put them both on E85 and watch the gap widen across the curve in favor of the LT1. 91 octane is limiting the LT1 quite a bit. Either way they both are worthy engines and the LS3 is easier to work with...also easier to swap into older vehicles.

[@hanzen5174]

may I ask why on your final point

[@Cultofpersonality09129]

Fail.

[@jaredfarney675]

I learned that the modified LT1 makes BBC454 numbers and curves. The variable cam timing makes the entire curve 👌🏻

[@hanzen5174]

also high compression with direct injection

[@horsefly1020]

@@hanzen5174 yep and pump gas without detonation

[@cali2468]

DI adds to it as well

[@timbowalk]

A 5.3 LS pumps out BBC power

[@KAREN-rm3ou]

Ok thankyou so much for this... when buying an LS3 camaro it will be cheaper than a LT1 camaro to begin with. Now I can consider these mods on an LS3 camaro that is plenty enough HP 620 and 515TQ for me WOW!! And If a competitor comes around me with this setup then hes definitely earned it!!! Bang for buck I guess what I'm saying👍👍😁😁

[@busaboi2004]

Awesome comparison. Thanks @RichardHoldener for all that you do for the car enthusiast universe. 👍🏾

[@markcusimano]

Thanks Richard! You're always a wealth of information!

[@Usmc913]

It's awesome to see you run some GPI cams. They're still leading the record for power made on a SBE LS3. I'd like to see you use them more often.

[@Cultofpersonality09129]

A cam is a cam. Richard has done 500 cam comparisons. Same specs produce the same results. It’s not rocket science.

[@inaNis_]

Direct injection allows you to run higher comp ratios on pump gas than port injection. 14:1 comp ratio on E85 direct injected motors is very doable, and 12.5:1 on boosted E85 DI motors is also doable, of course with a good tune.

[@cali2468]

Yes!

[@heroebennett]

lt motor is nice but more cost to build more complex more likely to break .i think ill stick with my ls3

[@ClaytonYatescarenthusiast]

Wow this is great stuff. I mean really gold here haha. Thanks for putting this together.

[@Lagrange1186]

I think until 6,000 rpm.... that LS3 was definitely holding its own. So with some different parts yeah it’s a contender

[@kennethpowers8995]

Lol; With some different parts a Gen 1 SBC would be a contender.

[@Lagrange1186]

@@kennethpowers8995 agreed

[@75zl1]

Until 6000rpm the ls3 was being walked on if these were in the same car. 50ftlbs of torque at 3000rpm is large difference.

[@ShawnGilbert1967]

You just never see remotely streetable or even at all 600whp Gen 4 stuff...I was quoted a 434 Darton sleeve combo and it was gonna take a LS7 top end to try....and way to big a cam for my liking...

[@dennisrobinson8008]

The 50ftlb is due to vvt

[@Wilson-cp4gx]

Great comparison. Both great engines. The gen v is so impressive. I have the gen v 6.2 in a Yukon Denali with a tune, basic stock exhaust mods, ported throttle body and 8l90 trans. 5900 lb with driver and consistent 13.20 et. It gets 22 mpg average.

[@james10739]

13.2 is pretty good for something that heavy

[@jonmac155]

Baller. Very impressive. MPG and Speed. Plus room in the back to sleep off a bender cause the wife doesn't have a sense of adventure or humour. Cam it and pin unruly kids to the rear window.

[@Wilson-cp4gx]

@@james10739 The 8 speed is a big part of the et. It’s clunky at parking lot speeds as many have experienced, but it hits the sweet spot for torque when shifting at 6k rpm and uses the hp at the top of each gear as well. Gm did a good job on the ratios, but it’s the clunkiest factory trans I’ve ever had.

[@paulbrinker482]

James, did the tuner help smooth out the clunky trans? I have a 15 sierra with the same motor/trans.

[@Wilson-cp4gx]

@@paulbrinker482 It didn’t change the occasional unexpected 1-2 or 2-1 shift and “clunk” below 5 mph. It does shift great other than that. Very firm with the tune and I like that.

[@ShawnGilbert1967]

When it's clean sheet like me there is about an $800 surcharge for DBW, DI and trans control ( my 67 Camaro has a 4l80e/billet lock up) on the Holley with 3.5 inch screen and VVT ( Cam 4X even less). Given the fact the stock heads will do well especially when ported ( you can tell this is what they wanted to do with the LS7 raise that runner NUTS like it is on the LT1, but they never got the LS7 right ) I'll actually be saving.... Also the fact I can buy a 3.860 L8T forged stroker ( center counter weighted too ) crank for $500 and it slide right in the Gen 5 block makes it just piston and rods for me to be up near 700hp... I've been looking and looking as I AM replacing a BBC I'm used to making 700+ hp with, it is HARD to find a 600whp Gen 4 LS..... I was quoted doing a custom darton sleeve 5.3l Gen 4 block to 4.155 and custom 4.00 rotator...then the best heads money can buy ( generally have to go LS7 and their intake ) and at 434ci barely be 550whp or 650 flywheel.... The Gen 5 can do it at stock bore with the 3.860 crank for 400ci aka 6.6L, with much less cam and save a TON on heads... So more power, smaller cam less money from clean sheet and literally can run to 9s aka illegal in my old 67 NA...works for me...im not scared of DI...I just come from a boosted Gen 3 coyote and I'm used to dealing with the DI and tuning the blend..... Other than pure budget gap n go turbo stuff I can't see why anyone would still mess with the Gen 3/4....the stock crank on Gen 5 is stronger too...heads better...even better than LS7 when you count the LS7 failures that even the aftermarket doesn't have solved in my research.... I'm leaning heavily to Gen 5.....

[@Venom99street]

Ported heads and a compression bump are needed on the LS3. Even playing field from there.

[@jr78racer]

Can't wait to see a 6.6 L8T test

[@trashbandit2449]

Yes please! So excited about this engine

[@austintyler7991]

For sure 6.6 will be beast w the Richard Holdener upgrades :-)

[@aimxdy8680]

Hands down strongest chevy engine ever made!

[@mikedaleiden7725]

On Camaros, i'd be perfectly happy with either 6.2L. That much lighter, dialed in 6th gen platform shared with the LT1 makes far more difference to me than subtle numbers differences from either of these great V-8s. 99.99% of my driving will be on the street and not track, so easy decision here.

[@dansherwood9851]

Awesome job Richard! You tempt me to modify my 18 Denali 6.2…I just need another 100 ponies is all😊

[@jaydubb71]

I think milling and porting the factory heads on the LS3 will make it a closer match up. Still hard to beat that VVT stuff. GPI is getting it in tho...

[@rustysausage69]

Yup. And whatever way you decide to do to close that gap, it will still cost less than an LT1 dropout lol Also keep in mind that the first thing thats done with any sort of decent camshaft upgrade is VVT delete. Piston-valve clearance is TIGHT from the factory on the LT stuff so theres not as much wiggle room.

[@jaydubb71]

@@rustysausage69 #AGREED. I'm sticking with the LS stuff. Tuning the LT stuff is expensive also. It's just like when the LS stuff first came out. It made way more power than the Gen 1/2 stuff and was expensive. Eventually the prices will fall but for now, I'm staying with the LS stuff.

[@rustysausage69]

@@jaydubb71 Exactly my thoughts too. Ill make my way into LT when the time comes and the aftermarket REALLY makes the fuckery worth it, but right now the power gain is definitely not worth the price hike.

[@cali2468]

Made my way into the Gen V stuff and never looked back.

[@johnnystock1849]

LS3 in a 5th gen, 568rwhp; 11:33 CR, TFS 262 FED custom heads, solid roller 239/253 720' 702', ZL1 inj, T&D rockers, 91oct, sheetmetal custom Goertz1 intake, EWP, 2'' SW headers& stock NPP catback, remote tuned by Pat G. The rpm signal on the dyno was skewed and numbers were still climbing at 7200rpm, I estimate 575-580rwhp. I have now a full 3'' exhaust and 2.75'' Z28 mufflers, I hope it'll make 590rwhp. Close to 685hp. I think both engine are very similar but the LT1 has a big advantage stock with VVT. With a cam and same CR, totally equal engines, but i prefer LS3 cause its more old school. LT1 cars are faster cause vvt, better trans (A10) and lighter.... I bet with a GPI flycut cam in this combo with GMPP ported heads, thinner gaskets, you'd see exactly the same hp in both or almost. LT1 is not superior when the LS3 is cammed.

[@richardholdener1727]

685 hp LS3 with a 239 intake cam?

[@johnnystock1849]

@@richardholdener1727 yes same cam. Its a solid roller, no flycut stock bottom LS3, so maybe equivalent to a hydrolic 233/247. The 12 degrees heads gave me more room for a bigger cam and smaller head gasket/ higher CR.

[@xozindustries7451]

That LT1 is really impressive, that low speed torque is key in a street car, it’s still down from a good big block below 3500 rpm, but then it comes alive

[@adamarndt7617]

Yep. I’d love to see the Holley “dual plenum” cross ram adapted to fit on LT heads. Would be a torque monster down low and in the middle!

[@ShawnGilbert1967]

Yea but as someone switching from badass BBC that LT1 is gonna be 300lbs lighter....that evens the playing field...

[@gloriamaletta8667]

I wouldn't worry about anything under 4500rpm with this modified LT1 it will be needing a 4400-5000rpm stall converter to take full advantage of this setup it has enough low end grunt from idle to 3000rpm for cruising or normal street driving and yes it will be a bit soft with a 4400-5000rpm stall converter from idle to 3000rpm it will rev extremely fast at the slightest push on the gas petal and go into lockup at cruising speed at 45-50mph depending on gearing my car has a 4200rpm lockup stall converter with a 6L80e transmission it's soft until 2500-2600rpm and goes into lockup at part throttle or street driving in 5th gear at 40-45mph and 6th gear at 50- 55mph at part throttle feeling no more affects of the stall converter unless the throttle is pushed down more while at these speeds it will unlock with a very little bit more throttle pressure on the gas petal

[@dxrkout5677]

Have any data on a stock L99 vs LT1? Both have VVT. By the way...same question as before on the live stream. Does BTR have any VVT cam's in store for the L99?

[@benreeves9848]

I'm running an ls3 stock motor, pac 1218 springs and twin low mount Chinese t3/t4 turbos making 620hp on the factory ecu @10psi and on uk pump gas :)

[@brianheaton5521]

Started a new job recently(Architectural fab)All the guys warned me about the head shop lead. I was talking cars and engines with this dude, and he responds with "I'm not into cars at all." It all make sense now. Lol

[@gothicpagan.666]

The Lt1 gains were a little bit down on what I expected. Clearly pretty good straight from the factory. Would expect the Ls3 to make more power than the Lt1 if it had all the good life affirming parts you listed added on to it.

[@andyharman3022]

More power is life affirming..... I like the way you think.

[@johnallen7230]

LSA; 100% Stock Heads, Stage 1 Cam,Jokerz Ported Blower, E85, 16.5 psi boost.......780rwhp

[@jimstover6747]

Please do a mild VVT cam in the Gen V L86 or LT1. Use both 6.2 L intakes and maybe the Gen V LT2 intake ~IF~it bolts up. Im curious to see if GM did as good of a job on the LT1/L86/LT2 intakes as they did on the LS3. Plus that BTR intake killed the GenV torque. After these are done, do a LT1 416 stroker with a mild/street cam. The optimized stock engines dynos were real good. The Gen Vs was a torque monster. I am getting tirred of asking for the 416 GenV , so please just do it, LOL. Keep up the great work Ricjhard.

[@richardholdener1727]

I HAVE LT INTAKE VIDS UP

[@jimstover6747]

@@richardholdener1727 i seen it. thanks

[@JKZ103]

I choose ls3 all day and twice on Sunday. Dont even want to mess with the cam timing on the lt1

[@evopigeau]

I have a 2018 6.2 lt stock minor upgrades and honestly can tell you , its a torque monster.

[@hb-ol9oc]

I saw a video of a guy explaining that Direct Injection engines were problematic and he recomended port injected like the LS3. It was something about not cleaning the residuos of the valves and that in time will degrade de engine.

[@richardholdener1727]

valve build up is an issue with di

[@ultrazls1]

The LT1 has made 650+ rwhp now 3 years later on max effort stock cube heads cam sbe builds. GPI CID heads. over 14:1 compression. pump e85. GPI Hi ram cam. ported Hi ram or cid manifold. They are making 100hp over the lt1 setup in this test now. An engine test a couple years ago made 759 crank at gpi with the original track attack cam which is a bit less aggressive than the hi ram cam as well. Things are getting interesting with the strokers too. They just did a 454 LT and made over 1000 hp with pump e85 and still a hydraulic roller setup. Crazy to think what it could do on fuel and solid roller.

[@richardholdener1727]

they are doing some impressive stuff

[@jackruss5056]

Would like to see some LT1/L86 cam, cam/ ported heads comparisons, cam/heads and some intake combos. Please

[@spdcrzy]

That torque difference in stock form is MASSIVE lol. I can't wait to see a tall-deck 500-inch LT1 that retains VVT and VCT. You could get a MONSTER motor out of that if you ran it on E85 with 13:1 compression or higher. I wonder if you could reach 800 lb-ft and 1000 hp...

[@popduce841]

Compare LS 600+hp vs 600+ NA Big Block. Put both into same car using same transmission,rear gears, and see which has the fastest 1/4 mile et trap MPH. Battle of the LS vs Big block which of the two will win?

[@austintyler7991]

I think the extra torque BBC will win. same Hp w maybe 50lb ish extra tq ? Just my opinion. I'd love to put 620hp LS in my drag S10.

[@popduce841]

@@austintyler7991 it will be very interesting Comparing the two different motors/engine's in the same car.

[@phillipwilliams8805]

Thanks for all the knowledge it’s just upsetting that the original lt1 was a 350 right. It’s just like ls1 was a 5.7 just like the 350 was a 5.7. I’m just glad that the ls exhaust ports are spread apart not like the 350 heads where the middle ones are close to gather and robs it’s power.

[@DrewDeeKay]

Have you thought about seeing what you can do with the 6.2 l99? I have a completely stock lower end, heads and cam l99 in my 2012 Camaro SS with the addition of fuel pump 1000cc fic injectors, e-85 and a 2.9L Whipple supercharger. My tuner was amazed at how much more rear wheel power he was able to get out of it as opposed to an LS3 with the same setup. He did a safe tune, but was able to get 670 hp at the rear wheel. I've been having some transmission problems that I will be fixing shortly, but still am running a 10.85 1/4 mile with vvt still active.

[@richardholdener1727]

why would that 6.2l make more than another 6.2L?

[@ShizawnSanders]

Ported factory casting LS3 heads would have made 20 more HP and a aftermarket casting even more. Aftermarket casting head, like a PRC, gives more valve relief for a bigger cam too. Not saying the LS3 would have made the same or more power but it for sure would have made more with the same mods. I don't think anyone should argue that fact.

[@cali2468]

Regardless, apples to apples, Gen V makes more power. I'm not surprised considering GM has always been able to make more power with each successor.

[@Slowcarfast2980]

If both motors had same compression, head flow and cam specs, they would make the same peak power & torque. The only caviat being the LT1 will make more average power (better down low) because of the variable cam timing.

[@hoonaticbloggs5402]

If they were exactly the same, they’d be exactly the same,no ?

[@Jr_5646]

Im not so sure. I still think the LT would still make more because of Direct injection. If the heads flowed the same on a flow bench, then the LT would make more power when on the car, because it wouldn't have to flow both air and fuel through the intake ports and into the cylinder. That means no air is being displaced by fuel. Also, DI cools the cylinder allowing you to run more timing.

[@approachingtarget.4503]

As the graph shows. I clearly see the power increase for the ported heads and larger TB. Id be willing to bet...a gen 4 would match the power numbers with the same mods. The low rpm torque is a direct function related too the direct port injection and higher compression. All in all they are the same engine. To take advantage of the gen 5 direct injection. Your compression could be much higher. So the only component that is actually a improvement for the lt1 is the ability to support higher compression. The hp in this case is strictly from the ported heads.

[@Ws6Ms]

@@bigboreracing356 LMAO

[@johnbehneman1546]

GREAT VIDEO RICHARD!!!! BITH ARE GREAT MOTORS!!! IS THE LT AVAIBLE IN THE JUNKYARD TODAY?

[@richardholdener1727]

LOTS OF L83S

[@lucasmacdonald2613]

Was REALLY hoping you'd put the L86 manifold on just for fun. Make a budget torque-beast build video with an L86/LT1!

[@MrScottt28]

The LS is not dead. Yet.

[@DBGMLV]

The guys at Katech have made 800hp out of a 427 LT1. I think the LT1 has some pretty good potential. Is there a similar Coyote series comming ? You did a couple of vids, but nothing quite so extensive.

[@trashbandit2449]

NA? Impressive. Crank?

[@suttonracing2957]

@@trashbandit2449 yes

[@ShawnGilbert1967]

And I was quoted needing a darton sleeve 434 with LS7 top end to be over a 100hp LESS than that on Gen 4.... I think since it's a clean sheet retrofit, I'm going to go GEN 5, not scared of DI just did a Boosted Gen 3 coyote, use their cheap forged center counterweighted 3.860 stroker crank in the stock 4.065 block for a 400ci and use the stock heads but have em ported....good piston and rod...be done with it...

[@Macburton96]

Be cool to put those lt heads on the 6.2 Ls and see how close it comes with the smaller chamber

[@timboone9051]

Never listed the stock horsepower and torque ratings of the LT1 in this video it showed the graph but was hard to pinpoint the actual numbers

[@gpman83]

Gen 4 is best for boost. LT1 (D.I.) has fuel system limitations, putting it at 8xxhp ceiling. built both, have to pick D.I. for ice cream and burnouts but LS3 for max effort race build. i built L86 with untouched heads, intake, mild cam, springs, tune, makes 500hp on chassis dyno.

[@andyharman3022]

Gen V has stronger block, and bigger head bolts, so is better for boost. Add port injection for extra fuel once the DI injectors are at their limit.

[@gpman83]

@@andyharman3022 I hate that one driver head bolt hex lol Still learning di limits

[@Sami-gs7qb]

Man! Great info

[@jessewilliams6326]

2013 camaro ls3 gm stage 2 cam, gm cnc ported heads, 1.8scorpion rocker arms. sheet metal intake 105mm BBK throttle body. will make 680hp. I did it in 2015.

[@CamaroRick]

Everyone else "im a lock out the vvt" 🤦‍♂️

[@Jr_5646]

Yea you should only do that if you run a big enough cam where piston to valve clearance becomes an issue.

[@ronwest4522]

I have a Buddy that just bought a 2024 6.2 and it didn't make 4,000 miles and the motor locked up, it's back ordered, they have problems.

[@terrybell6287]

Cost is a huge factor. iI takes over half again more money to build an LT than an LS, money that could be spent on an LS to make more power. Spending that money on an LS will net you more HP on an LS than LT. Plus LS is way more simple to work on and if your HIGH DOLLAR LT pump fails you get to buy it again. LT is nice with the flat torque curve with VVT but I'll stick with the LS

[@calvinevans8305]

Even displacement, airflow, and optimized tune should have close to the same power when modified.

[@Jr_5646]

The LT would still make more power because of VVT and Direct injection. Although, depending on the cam duration, you might not be able to use the VVT.

[@Nafskie]

L94/L99 VVT Gen IV vs LT1 Gen V, that would be more apples to apples. We know holley doesnt have VVT control, but it has to be noted VVT makes more before and after LS3 cams. And no fly cutting the pistons, to keep them more real world. Has to be the biggest cam without relief cuts in the pistons.

[@erichoward8463]

If you ever come across one, I'd love to see you do a comparison of an L76 6.0L all aluminum truck engine with VVT vs. Maybe a Gen 3 6.0L or maybe the LT1 or one of the 5.3 variants to see How it compares and responds with VVT cams.

[@richardholdener1727]

I ran an LY6 (iron block version) but have not run it with VVT

[@erichoward8463]

I have an L76 in my GMC Sierra and always wondered what it's power potential could be. It runs so good in stock trim with a little help from headers (and exhaust) and a power programer and throttle enhancer.

[@zmanphx]

I just bought 2016 Escalade which has the factory rated 420HP 6.2 . I wondered why this motor has the same horsepower as the previous gen Escalade.

[@torymblue2000]

Okay bud. I've been meaning to ask. I thought you were going to start producing your own Cams and lately it's been a lot of BTR love. Did I miss a memo?

[@richardholdener1727]

no production cams-maybe some left over test cams

[@lestermoore9863]

How much for a ls test cam

[@jimmytedrow4146]

Stock lt1 impressed. Modified lt1 not so much ill take a simpler ls3 to Modify for now.

[@keything8487]

i want either of these engines !!!

[@Project-gr6zy]

I would love to see a ford 300 i6 done bone stock Then run efi manifolds Port fuel injection And a cam with this spec 268 advertised duration 208 intake at 50 212 exhuast at 50 477 intake lift at 50 488 exhaust lift at 50 110+4 Then Put twin turbos on it that will make peak boost at 4500 up And if you can run coil on plug with megasquirt or aem or something and then compare it with a twin turbo or turbo 302 sbf you've done, 300 6 vs 302 SBF Will need to replace the pistons with new hyper or forged, Arp studs on everything and bigger valve springs and your set

[@NA6SPD]

Please continue this testing with the LS3 I have an all motor combo LS3 with GPI SS4 NFC Cam, 821 Casting Heads Ported by GPI and milled .120 with Flycuts .150 deep Looking to go with dual 4150s or 4500s, go to 2” headers, electric water pump, and crank scraper I think the Gen 4 can compete but the Gen 5 are just great for NA power.

[@NA6SPD]

Never Dyno’d after milling heads Just basic heads cam Fast Lsxhr manifold and 1 7/8 headers made 540 at the ground

[@spencer15898]

Gen 5 4.3 EcoTec3!!!!!

[@drudgenemo7030]

Something that's an running argument Reversing the pistons That on Chevy, ford, mopar would make a decent series of videos

[@richardholdener1727]

that test is planned (on 1 motor)

[@winterlounge]

How do you keep DI intake valves clean though. Even with a catch can over thousands of miles they develop deposits. The high pressure fuel pump and injectors are a PITA to change.

[@richardholdener1727]

WATER METH WOULD HELP

[@jamesgravel7755]

The first time I pulled a LT1 apart to do a cam/headers swap I was like omg. These heads are made for making power. I knew there was a lot of potential engineered into the LT1 compared to the LS platform. And we did a heads/cam/headers/intake on basically stock bottom end it it put 713hp to the tires in a 2017 Camaro threw a manual. I was highly impressed.

[@jamesgravel7755]

We were testing intakes and the MSD atomic intake made the most power threw the whole power band.

[@richardholdener1727]

HCI LT1 making 713 wheel hp? with how much boost?

[@jamesgravel7755]

0 boost. No spray. All motor. Stock bore. Factory ported heads on a Cnc program. Dyno’d in a camaro. To the hub dyno. With a manual. 713hp!!! I literally shit. I may still have the video. If you have a email I’ll send it. HCP in spring Texas has one of the best head guys in the country.

[@jamesgravel7755]

You should give elli a call. It’s HPC in spring Texas. (Northwest Houston) He’s the owner. Great guy. The camaro is his personal car. Could possibly dyno some of his stuff I worked at another shop down the street. He dyno’d all his cars at the shop I worked at.

[@PrismIsAPuck]

def not making that much power on a sbe lt1, especially not with the msd.

[@DBSSTEELER]

I just picked up a 2018 GMC SIERRA Denali with the L86. This video makes me sad. I just realized the 429 stroker LS3 in my 2010 Camaro SS makes about what a heads/cam/intake version of my truck motor would make. That makes me happy at the same time because my truck will be way better after headers and a tune.

[@Rhett.Castillo]

The LT1 in NA form, is clearly the winner. The obvious reasons are the LT heads, compression, and DI.

[@foxtbird8756]

Your comparing red apples to green apples make it make sense 😦

[@NaturallyaspiratedJJM]

This is a great review. I'm trying to figure out which e-rod motor to buy the LS3 or the LT1 for a 1990 short bed pickup truck. I like the idea of the extra torque down low but not sure the added complexity of direct injection and variable valve timing is worth it.

[@biggregsparks8364]

ls3. no vvt or cylinder deactivation. no collapsed lifters. plus, they only come with 6 speed manuals in the camaro. the automatics are the l99 with all the vvt and stuff. an ls3 with 430 horse dynos at 370 rwhp, while the 400 horse auto only has 320 rwhp. the manual is much stronger and way more fun

[@dahliametal]

@Richard Holdener have you done any LT heads on LS blocks? I see BTR is working on some testing, I would love to see an LT headed LS3 Dyno!

[@richardholdener1727]

BTR has done that

[@dahliametal]

@@richardholdener1727 do you have any comparison information on potential power gains between LS3 heads and the LT heads? I'm curious if the LT heads would be a performance upgrade or is there any benefit to them on an LS based engine. Thanks for your reply!

[@TxHammer757]

I would like you to do a test on the Gen 3 hemi 392 factory 6 speed cam with boost and then a Comp Cam 274 with boost....I bet the out come would be surprising

[@hamper116]

I think it’s not that much of a difference, if you go with a ported head on the ls3 I think it would just be making a copy of the lt1. The variable cam timing would be the only difference and that still isn’t too significant in my opinion. That makes me wonder, can lt1 heads fit an ls3?

[@balance_it_all_out3688]

They will with a little modification Brian Tooley has a video on channel

[@michaelprochaska9755]

Did you tune in injection timing in this comparison? If not, there is still more to be had in the LT1

[@richardholdener1727]

they did

[@ShawnGilbert1967]

The question is, since it would be easy, would be to run the LS3 with a Holley High Ram? We all know a dual TB efi is the optimum setup...he has told us this....I think that helped the LS3 a lot.... But dang that LT1 wanting to rev to 7500rpm like a Coyote is nuts

[@richardholdener1727]

I have run the LS3 with a high ram-see the big LS3 intake test

[@ShawnGilbert1967]

@@richardholdener1727 yes I get so confused you sneaky rascal I end up watching them all multiple times to get my answers.... I hope for more LT testing...im thinking about an aluminum l86 4.065 LT block with their cheapo L8T forged 8 counter weight crank for a cheapish 400ci LT with ported heads and a cam say from TSP that includes the VVT table... Hoping for 650 flywheel around 11.5 to 1, doable ?

[@darylsanders1457]

Richard, Which factory exhaust manifolds flow the best. My 07 HD 3500 LY6 has 3” out of manifolds through the 2 cats and then Y’s to 3 1/2 out the back. Would like to see a test if possible.

[@richardholdener1727]

MINIMAL CHANGES IF ANY-LONG TUBE HEADERS ADD POWER

[@RalphRomano2]

I liked the 2nd dyno test for 620 hp the best out of all the testing. I think that motor ROCKS for the street, and has insane low end torque. I did not like the last test for the street. The higher end power was not worth the lower end power loss in my opinion.

[@sariahreigns3666]

in the 6gen SS it might not even be noticable since its lighter than 5th gen with a much better chassis. Just my 2 cents not saying your wrong im just not sure it would matter with those differences.

[@dennisrobinson8008]

The 620 was out of stock LS3 heads, with ported LS3 heads, the tunnel ram and that big cam that car would've made over 700HP.

[@AgiDaKinG]

Doug from Motion Raceworks was or is running a Gen V in his Nova. But if I remember correctly he’s built the bottom end and I’m not even sure he’s still using direct port anymore

[@ricksnell9401]

I have an LS3 with ported 243 head and a bald eagle n/a cam. forged flat top pistons .20 over 92 mm throttle body and tbss intake, texas speed springs etc. where do I fit in power wise?

[@richardholdener1727]

have never tested that cam-but mid to high 500s if the heads were done correctly

[@johnbehneman1546]

SUGGESTION: LT VS ZO6. WHEN IT BECOMES AVAIABLE.

[@vernm6189]

Richard, What about Building a Dart Boss 302 with all the Good stuff, Carol Shelby and Ford didn't have in 1970? if you did a Video can you get me a link?

[@richardholdener1727]

The Boss 302 already had a good block.

[@vernm6189]

@@richardholdener1727 I know, I run one in my 1965 1986 to 92, it was a D1ZE block, just wanted to know if you tested a better newer version of it?

[@corbinschad1]

Would like to see some l9h instead of ls3. The l9h never gets enough attention.

[@johnparrish9215]

I have a stupid direct injection question; Since the engine is detonation-proof and has piston oil squirters, does that mean that I can cruise with a super lean air/fuel mix??? A Hot Rod getting 30 MPG would be pretty cool.

[@richardholdener1727]

NOTHING IS DETONATION PROOF

[@mr.know_it_all]

lt4 corvettes gets almost 30mpg with a 7 spd manual.

[@andyharman3022]

If you could tune the engine to operate in lean burn stratified charge mode at part-load conditions, you could improve fuel economy. GM doesn't do lean-burn with the factory tuning on the Gen V engines. They run stoichiometric at part-throttle, but don't inject until after the valves have closed. This is called closed-cycle operation. You could get stratified charge operation and operate at very lean conditions (22:1 A/F) by timing injection to late in the compression stroke, maybe 25 degrees BTC, then fire the spark plug at 20 BTC. This engine would be detonation-proof (at least at part-throttle) because the late injection assures there is no fuel in the combustion chamber except in the vicinity of the spark plug. To get maximum power, though, the engine would have to revert to homogeneous charge operation, and add full power enrichment. Tuning the transition from stratified to homogeneous charge would be tricky.

[@edcass9]

Looks like the LT1 made more Torque in stock configuration than with the bigger cam and heads

[@donealable]

having an LT1, I'm curious on going supercharger or TSP cam/heads combo. Still not sure.

[@sariahreigns3666]

I have a pro charger TSP Headers AWE catback and i make north of 600WHP on 7 LBS and E85. But i dont know if i want to just go all motor especially with the EPA becoming radiculized. Hard to hide a pro charger. easier to hide all motor mods.

[@edwardwood3622]

Hey Richard. The moded LT1 was a disappointment IMO considering ported heads and big cam. The LT1 lost ~70 lb/ft @ 4000 and had lower peak torque? If the cam was bigger on the LT1 wouldn't BTR have had to lock out the VVT? Would that explain the huge loss in torque?

[@dennisrobinson8008]

VVT is used to boost low rpm torque. Its a big deal like 50 ft lb on a 6.0L engine. It doesn't boost peak torque.

[@sstevocamaro]

That Gen V LT1 made the same power as a 441ci LS3 I just saw on another channel. The 441 LS3 made 90 more ftlbs of torque tho

[@jeffyeager1997]

If you are on the fence between these two engines get the ls3. You dont want direct injection.

[@DennisMurphey]

Late to the party just found this video. I had a 2007 Z06 with LS7, Stock yes i had the heads replaced, then went to an SS Sedan LS3, whoa! less cubes and heavier car, I put the Factory Roots style Blower (LSA) on a the Stock LS3. OH yeah now some torque is back, but the vehicle was too long for me. Got a 2014 Z51 LT1, its ok but not an LS7 or supercharged built LS1 or LS3 with LSA. So now what? I really like this C7 Vette but missing the grunt and bluster of these other engines. Been Pricing things out: Cam ($500) but $8,000 Installed, Ouch, Heads $3,000 port my heads Installed, Intake slim pickings $1,000. Headers $2000 installed, A&A Vortech $10,000 installed. WTF? Can you assess Tuner Kits for the LT1? The biggest push i have heard so far was a quick and dirty A&A Vortech Kit to reach 600 HP with fuel system upgrades. But still $10,000 is a lot of Jack for a one shot kit, will it do the job, will it have strong torque down low, 3,500 RPM? Will ir allow the LT1 to Rev??? Cn the LT1 cam rev at all ?? How does 11 to 1 work out with boost and stock valve train???? Is there a need to work on the intake at all with Boost??? Can HCI beat out the A&A Vortech Type Blower bolton??? Would love to hear you inputs on Hot Rodding the LT1 in a C7. Thanks, Dennis

[@richardholdener1727]

talk to BTR

[@dustinjackson8646]

Do an L92 WITH VVT and factory ECU. I know you did an L92 with a 6 liter can but I feel like you left power on the table with that set up.

[@austintyler7991]

Richard Holdener hope ur doing well. Aluminum block 4.3 V6. Did factory produce in last 10 yr ? Thanks great work brother keep it coming.

[@richardholdener1727]

is the new one an alum block?

[@austintyler7991]

@@richardholdener1727 i don't know. Guess i can call GM maybe they would know lol. Have great weekend brother

[@Airman..]

I love my 800whp ls3 however i am intrigued about lt1 thicker block walls, does it ad more rigidity? Maybe more peak hp?

[@FirstLast-tx3yj]

Having a ported head with a bigger lift cam that required fly cut pistons is definitely worth the extra 50hp or so I believe it would be negligible difference if it was 100% matched modes

[@ShawnGilbert1967]

Naw dude been scouring the net and talking to builders its taking big cube darton sleeve LS7 top ends to get close to what the LT stuff even with their cheap 3.860 stroker crank in stock block are doing to the wheels....very few Gen 4 are making 600whp and when they do it's terrible manners and big stall...we are starting to see this as the norm now on LTs, just since this video

[@FirstLast-tx3yj]

@@ShawnGilbert1967 so swapping lt heads and cams on gen 4 is worth it??

[@ShawnGilbert1967]

@@FirstLast-tx3yj I should have been more clear... I have a built for boost BBC with a lot of homemade custom parts and a F1A-94 on it hooked to a 4l80e in my 1967 Camaro... I used to build easily 720-750hp NA full street cruise in mid 20mpg BBCs in it.... I am dying I've had car for over 30 years and I am attempting to to set it up as modern as possible when I pass for my grandson, the car is setup well it will take about any NA engine thrown at it...its ran 9s NA on a 275 tire driven in... I was looking at doing him a modern ( that he can get worked on) all aluminum Gen 4 build before I pass...stout enough to run low 10s on 93 ( legal speed for car) and man even with Herculean efforts and money the gen 4 just wasn't gonna get him there remotely streetable ( I'm talking 11 to 1/say the 54-459 cam) even with Darton sleeves and $4k heads...at 434ci they were talking 550whp...btw that was a LS7 top end with get this needing to check guides every 10k miles... Now enter Gen 5, you can run 12 to 1 with the DI, a smaller cam with full control, the stock heads are fine ported ect...a 4.065 stock bore with their cheap L8T forged 8 counter weight crank at 3.860 ( vs gen 4 3.622 stock style ) makes 400ci with good geometry and a stable piston WAY more cheaply than a Gen 3 to darton then forged rotator.... I have a head porter I trust just sent those off and have em ported, valve job and checked with new springs ect... Select VVT cam to peak around 6800 or so... You see a lot more streetable combos at 600whp in gen 5 than you do gen 4....plus I've seen first hand the MPG and performance of high compression and DI.... Also its basically the same engine you could go buy new today, so when he is ready for car....it will still be newer and people will know how to work on it and the Holley tune will be much more straightforward than the custom out the wazoo loadout I use..... I was REAL surprised how hard it was to get to 650+ flywheel with Gen 4 in a streetable combo, I had thought both the LS7 issues and the aftermarket would be pushing 700hp at hyd roller since I last built one ( a 402ci gen 4 for a 69 Camaro )...but all that's happened is the prices went up insanely.....well if I am going to pay insane prices might as well get the newest ( which will be mature by the time he is using it)

[@FirstLast-tx3yj]

@@ShawnGilbert1967 thank you for the very detailed comment and you know about the engines way more than i do and have seen much more combinations I am a guy on budget so the most displacement i can get is 6.2 L92 and the most NA with stock ls3 heads i have seen is 488whp on e85 Now if i want to maximize the setup i was looking into getting l83 heads and gen 5 cam and rotating the pistons around Hoping that this will get me over 500whp on a 6.2 gen4 block What do you think?

[@ShawnGilbert1967]

@@FirstLast-tx3yj one thing I'd be concerned about is what's e85 for? It's not for us, we just got lucky that this miracle mix is available at some pumps to be a cheap race fuel with high cooling and octane almost impossible to detonate and makes our tuning window wide enough to drive a truck thru... What's it really at the pump for though? It's not the enthusiast it's it's flex fuel. When E15 was forced to be adopted by the manufacturers ( vs e10 max in regular fuel ) which mixes up from a base stock of 84 octane to the 88 octane we see in e15 ( same as 87 is 84 with e10 bringing it up), doing this has satiated a lot of carbon offset. Several Trump Era waivers are expiring, the new strategy with this e15 protection, to utilize ethanol but keep it at a rate that doesn't affect food production while the focus shifts to EV.... Notice VERY few flex fuel vehicles for 2021-2022...traditional vehicles are being forced to e15 compliance ( and have been for years ) allowing them to stretch supply while offsetting carbon and the rest of the market is EV....see any flex fuel in there? I have been told by someone that would know expect e85 to dry up at the pump within a couple years.... I would not setup a car I plan to drive with e85 as a requirement to operate safely unless it was just a weekend race car and I was prepared to buy drums of e90 ect... There are a ton of papers on current use and the expiring waivers but at end of day it's this simple flex fuel is and to a great degree has went away which was the only reason we ever had e85 at the pump, while the shift from government on down has been to EV and the turbo 4s ect will have e15 meet their needs barely....the Golden age of e85 is closing...sooner than later

[@alexanderpl1]

Hi Richard. I'm from Poland, I watch your videos on YT. I have a Camaro SS, 5th Gen with L99 engine. You are an expert in this field, that's why I have a question. My engine has been damaged (a hole in the block) I can buy a C7 LT1 6.2 block, can I transfer the crankshaft, pistons, heads and other components from the L99 block to the LT1 with some minor modifications? Regards. Alex.

[@richardholdener1727]

I don't think that will work

[@wsnapper3377]

Richard, this might be a dumb question, but on the LS engine tests which weight of engine oil do you use? Brand ?

[@richardholdener1727]

I NORMALY USE 5W-30

[@davidgledhilljr71]

5th Gen Lt1 is a work of art. Buttery smooth monster.

[@V3Brandon]

Stock for stock and mod to mod the LT1 engine is more powerful. I've seen stock LT1 Camaros trapping 118. Yes, the 10 speed is definitely an advantage. But that won't affect trap speed much. I've never seen a LS3 Camaro trap 118. That's LSA speed. Sadly, most LS3 Camaros trap sub 110.