Lucas Diesel Injection Pump Timing Perkins 332T

This is a long detailed non-professional version of installing a rebuilt Lucas CAV distributor style injection pump into a Perkins 332T diesel engine in an LX865 Ford New Holland skid loader. Timing is critical on these and unless you are a certified Perkins or Ford New Holland mechanic with access to all the special tools and training, this is NOT a simple task. The first obstacle is to determine the point at which you direct the fuel charge into the cylinder on the compression stroke. You know it has to be on the incoming side of compression (BEFORE Top Dead Center). If it's after TDC or overlaps TDC before the full charge is injected, the machine will suffer with lower output because full benefit of that charge is not being realized at optimum inside the respective cylinders. As they say in telling jokes AND installing injection pumps: TIMING is everything. So there is extreme detail contained in the video on how I located that point and also details of the actual installation sequence of the pump without damaging the pump itself.
Right at the end of the video we get to bleed the injectors and fire it up to go for a quick field test. Is it absolutely perfect...?? It's probably not dialed in quite as good or thorough as a certified mechanic...but at least dang it, it's running the best it has in a very long time. I'm happy to get it back in the wood pile, that's for sure.
Remember, I do not do 'How To' videos...but I do 'How I Do It' videos. I don't recommend you follow my procedures because your results may not be as good as mine. All in all this was a good exercise to go through, but it makes me realize that carburetors are much simpler to deal with. At least you don't need operating room conditions to rebuild a carb...but you just about do for a diesel injection pump. And of the whole pile of manufacturers, Roosa, Bosch, CAT, Cummins, Denso and Lucas....the Lucas CAV distributor style of the 90's seems to be the most difficult to work with as a shade tree mechanic !! That's my opinion only. So all you guys that really DO know what you are doing, don't troll this poor boy too hard. But if you are honest (and I know you are) you have to admit Lucas ANYTHING seems to be a problem. If you ever rode Brit cycles back in the 60's and 70's or worked on any of the Ford __000 series tractors, you KNOW what a fit Lucas electrics deal the poor fella working on them....AND what the repairs cost the poor owners !! Jus sayin'... LOL. #ford, #newholland, #lucas

[@Wheelloader__]

I’m not a mechanic. And now I know why. You are a man of many talents.

[@tractorman4461]

Oh now, don't give me too much credit there....I run a LOT on luck !! My son stopped in at different times during the project as his schedule allowed. But thank you for the kind comment !! (-:

[@1lilfarm]

Glad you got it up and running again. I think you explained it pretty well, especially the part about not screwing up by moving stuff after removing the pump. Yeah, diesels are a little different to work on. Carburetor, set of points and a condenser are more my cup of tea. I'll leave the diesels to the experts. 👍👍👍

[@tractorman4461]

The aggravating thing with this particular CAV pump is its not keyed to the shaft. Nothing but a taper fit which is why correct torque is so important. But that's the reason the gears have to be set to the correct BTDC before the distributor pump drive gear can be torqued in place. Because it is actually LOCKED in time by the rebuilder at the specific degree of rotation at the exact point at which it begins shooting in the juice. So then you have to install it with the gear loose, set the rotation of the crank, idler, camshaft with the loose pump drive gear at the point BEFORE TDC for piston #1 needs to be on the compression stroke. Then and only then can you tighten the drive gear on the tapered shaft....then immediately unlock the pump after the first low torque setting on the gear. If you torque it fully down while locked, you take the chance of damaging the rotating internals of the locked pump. Tricky huh.... Its hard to explain in print.

[@WildBill1122]

Great job. That took some indepth thought and knowledge. That skid steer i am sure was missed during its downtime.

[@tractorman4461]

Oh man, you better believe its been missed. The first thing my son tested it on was a 12'6'' x 32'' red oak log. So I might not have to wrestle these around the hard way any more. (-; Thank you Wild Bill for another visit buddy.

[@thomasbyerly4305]

"T man " we got you , your much older brother, the misses, now it seams like it might be time for the son. Take care Wendell. I sure appreciate your time in posting all these videos.

[@tractorman4461]

Hahahaha....you'll catch him sometimes on the back hoe or in the skidloader sometimes and a lot of times on another chainsaw in the middle of the branches. He's a journeyman heavy equipment operator for a local union contractor and works mostly 6 days a week. But heck Thomas, I appreciate you guys taking the time to watch the vids !!

[@HODGEPODGEDODGEGARAGE]

Very informative Wendell 🙂👍 Always nice when you can put the information out there to help someone else out with the same machine. Glad you got it up and running. Take care and happy wrenching 🔧🔩

[@tractorman4461]

This one took a little thought Zane, but I think if its not perfect, its extremely close. This particular Lucas pump is nothing like others I've dealt with. The taper shaft and no keyway makes it interesting. Have a great weekend filled with a lot of greasy parts or welding sparks my friend.

[@ricksmith-iw2op]

Nice job Wendell. That stuff can give you fits for sure. Glad you got it up and going again.

[@tractorman4461]

I can tell ya for sure this thing has been missed in the log pile !! Feels good to be bouncing the devil out of my lower back again. (-;

[@regsparkes6507]

You would make a good instructor Wendell! A sure sign that everything is 'on the money' is that there was no smoke, and that is very 'tell tale' in an engine like this. Good job!

[@tractorman4461]

Hot dang Reg, we got lucky once again Reg !! White OR black smoke is a no-no for sure. It sure would be nice to be able to see timing marks on the flywheel though. I still think removing the skid plates may reveal another inspection plate from the bottom. But to do that, it'd have to be up on blocks.

[@regsparkes6507]

@@tractorman4461 All we have to do is think ahead when a machine is about to 'break-down' and before it shuts off, be sure to park it on a ramp or on some nice high blocks! This is what should be called 'Anticipated hind sight' LOL!

[@Pennies_on_the_dollar]

Mr Wendell, your cliff notes are spot on my friend!! The attention to detail is utterly amazing!! It is such a joy to eat h you tackle almost any project and come out on top, even after a trial or two!! You sir are a genius!! I could listen to those explanations all day, very very well done!! I learned something today as well, beside these obvious on the injection pump..I know new Holland had many combos over the years for engines, but this particular series I ALWAYS thought was the New Holland / Ford 3cyl diesel's. I had no idea that Perkins was an option ever, that is so cool!! Thank you sir for another gear video, and very informative how you did it type thing. The degree wheel was amazing, very well done sir!! Look fwd to seeing what's next my friend!! I missed a few and I apologize sir, but will hopefully not let it happen again 😁😁😁👍👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@tractorman4461]

Aw don't worry about missing a few here and there. You got your plate full with your own stuff my friend. But I tell ya, it is almost impossible to find information on this 332 T Perkins on the internet. So it was another 'seat of the pants' operation, I'm afraid. Lady luck carried the coffee for me once again. Have a great day and don't work too hard today !!

[@jankotze1959]

Great job and explaining Wendell, nice to see a turbo on the 3 cylinder Perkins,

[@tractorman4461]

The turbo makes it a 65 hp power house for sure !! The Lucas pump is quite difficult to get where it needs to be in the timing sequence once it gets out of kilter. And that, unfortunately, was my own fault.

[@RCAFpolarexpress]

Good Evening Sir, Yes Sir ( TIMING is everything ) like you have written so very well Sir. You are so OUTSTANDING Sir Cheers

[@tractorman4461]

Good Morning mon ami...I hope the day finds you happy and well !! Thanks for watching the trials and tribulations of a poor boy once again.

[@RCAFpolarexpress]

@@tractorman4461 a poor boy ( WHAT !!! ) You have everything MAAAAAN WAKE UP YOU BAD BOY !!! LOL Please take care Sir Cheers !!!

[@deanbarr5740]

Hot dog tm44 that was slick. Sounded good too, like a diesel should. I liked the idea of using a pop can slid over the shaft to install a seal. Never heard of that before. Clever idea.

[@tractorman4461]

Hahahaha....those seals can be very tricky Dean. Even greased, they can turn inside out in a snap, then you gotta do it again. A little grease and a 'funnel' made from a pop/beer can (even a Bud Light) does the trick !! LOL

[@leonardryan8723]

Good job Wendell . Good old Perkins there a good working engine plus on fuel to .

[@tractorman4461]

I had another Perkins 3 cylinder in a little Massey Ferguson 2244 high lift. American tractor, Italian Drott loader and Perkins engine !! It was a good strong 152 cubic inch engine too.

[@tomfillmore9710]

Good job buddy very smart wish I had your knowledge the only part I could of helped you with is turning the key to bleed in system sounds like it's running great gotta thumps up on that buddy take care . You and the missus have a wonderful week

[@tractorman4461]

Well, I DID need someone on the key to bleed the injectors Tom !! You'd have sure been welcome to visit. The week is shaping up pretty good for us down here. A little rain for the garden and the yard. Farmers are happy too with the moisture. Just in time to keep stuff from burning up.

[@oilyragsgarage7200]

Very well explained😀 sounds great👍

[@tractorman4461]

This one was a bit more involved that normal...and I've got another coming down the line too with the Case 188D engine rebuild. Thx for watching from way over there.

[@dmfor9001]

Great video. There should be no “backlash” on this one!

[@tractorman4461]

Well, there shouldn't be anyway. Not only causing premature wear, backlash in the distributor pump gear is enough to effect the timing. Hard to believe, but it can have an effect on the timing just like being off TDC a degree.

[@mattthescrapwhisperer]

Sounds really good Wendell!

[@tractorman4461]

It took a bit, but I'm happy with the end result Matt.

[@jorgearturofonsecahidalgo5875]

good job Sr,

[@tractorman4461]

Without a keyed shaft, these things are not the easiest to get injection timing set correctly.

[@caterpillarjoe4426]

I have to say im way damm impressed by your ability to get through what we mechanics call a nightmare..cheers guy hope ill ever get to see you in person and yes your dog have a good one ❤️❤️❤️

[@tractorman4461]

Good Evening Joe !! Thank you for such cool comment. This one WAS a nightmare. It's silly to not have a keyed pump on these things. They are sooooo critical on injection timing too, as you well know. Heck yeah, you'd like my older brother too....he's been an operator since '57 right outta high school. If its got a track or a tire I think he's been in it, on it or under it !! Thanks again for watching.

[@tonyjones9715]

Wow what a job.👍👏👏

[@tractorman4461]

Thanks Tony, I'm glad you enjoyed the project.....grapple time !!

[@fixstyle9244]

I’ve been following along with ur videos i pulled my injectors out but can seem to find the correction replacements the part number all corroded

[@tractorman4461]

Unfortunately I don't remember if I even wrote them down. Are you working on this identical engine..the 332 T ? I took mine to the injection shop and he cleaned and tested them so I don't think I even needed to check the numbers. If you have a Diesel injection services company near you, he may be able to fix you up with what you need.

[@FanjetRG]

Wendell, You are pure genius, Is tere anything you cant fix?

[@tractorman4461]

Hahahahaha....well I just am on a roll with a good streak of luck I guess. I gotta admit, this one worked my brain a bit more than normal. LOL. Thanks for watching and for the cool comment !!

[@jameschuke4104]

How do you know this stuff? You must of got some old service manuals great knowledge you sure your not a instructor your a walking tex book very smart man! Oh iam still up for adoption 😅.

[@tractorman4461]

ALL engines, large and small, mostly are all just based on theory of the combustion process and how its gotta happen when all the parts go together. Some are just more complicated than others, so they need more thought. No, not ever an instructor...Hahahaha, but I DO have seven teachers in my family. Thanks for another cool comment James, and when we are ready to expand the family you will remain on the top of the list for adoption....LOL

[@ManuelPerez-ip4bb]

Good job.

[@tractorman4461]

It was a bit time consuming to get to this point, but it got there in the end despite the aggravation. Thanks for watching.

[@hevandroc.delalibera4315]

Hello... excellent explanation! Would you happen to be able to tell me if for the Perkins 1104C series engine without turbo, the injection timing is also 28° like this 332T, or would it be 26° like the old AD4.203? Thanks

[@tractorman4461]

Honestly I really don't know. All I can tell you is they are all very critical. And information is very difficult to find, believe me on that. The Perkins shops guard it like Fort Knox and don't want to talk to you. They want to write the thousand dollar repair bill I think.

[@hevandroc.delalibera4315]

lol it's true!! I contacted the Perkins representation and they denied me the information... I also tried to contact Delphi and never received a response... what I got with technical assistance here in Brazil was 22 degrees btdc for power generation applications and 24 btdc degrees for agricultural applications, both without turbo. for agricultural applications with turbo it goes to 25 degrees or more... this is for pumps without advance type Delphi dp100... thank you

[@markhorton9020]

looks like the same engine thats in the ls180, you are right that it is hard to find info on it I thought the engi e was made by ford. How smooth does it idle, I know many of thr 3 cylinders shake a lot at idle

[@tractorman4461]

Its a very popular engine that's in a lot of equipment. Ford has them in quite a few ag tractors as well as skidsteers. I think it idles really smooth and with pre-heat starts quickly. Now it takes 3 or 4 heat cycles when its 10 or 15 degrees outside, but above 35 or 40 it literally pops right off with a couple turns of the crank. Thanks Mark for visiting today.

[@jennifern5376]

I have a stanadyne/roosa master injection pump i can't see the mark on the retainer ring , on the injection pump that suppose to line up how can I time my 1974 510 jd backhoe. Would I have to take pump apart again

[@tractorman4461]

That's a question I'm afraid I am unqualified to answer for you. Good luck with the solution. I am totally unfamiliar with your machine. Sorry )-:

[@julioarias260]

Do you have pictures for the pump timing, when you slide in?

[@tractorman4461]

If you pinned the pump shaft down prior to removal and took it to an injection services company to rebuild the pump AND did not rotate the engine, the pump should come back from the rebuilder in the exact position it was in when they received it. These particular pumps have no keyed shaft connection and no definitive timing marks for service. They are a friction fit on a tapered shaft and need to be on the money. I'm sure in one of the videos, there's footage of the actual pump instal, but it literally slips right in and it attached with three mounting bolts. No slots in the flange like some pumps.

[@julioarias260]

@tractorman4461 I messed up my timing, I didn't know the little screw was for locking the pump, anyways I took the pump for rebuild and they locked it the same position I remove it, I proceed to install and yeah, no luck, so I took a picture when I removed it and try to copy the same position and guess what, is not the same as the beginning when I took it for rebuild, gonna try new position tomorrow morning, hopefully it works this time.

[@Freds2323]

Great video sir. I am having issues with my LS180 (same setup as your engine) running hot after messing with the injector pump. What coolant temp does yours run now?

[@tractorman4461]

Unfortunately my temp sensor had failed months prior to making this repair and that's the about only thing I forgot to replace. It shows hot from a cold start so I keep my display on the hydraulic oil temperature. The oil temp runs 176 or close to it consistently during operation. I still have not even ordered the coolant sensor yet. Thanks for reminding me. Were you lucky enough to find the locking pin and lock the pump with the pin before you removed it ?

[@Freds2323]

@@tractorman4461 My hydraulic oil temp shows 170 but I have the high flow so there is an extra cooler. I installed a mechanical coolant temp and it reads about 210-220. I had a valve fail in the engine so it was rebuilt, I assumed that the injection pump was keyed but soon realized that the gear is not keyed and can be put on in any position. The book further confuses things when it talks about the pump lock at 340 degrees and the engine at 29 BTDC. According to your method, I have had it run anywhere from 12-30 BTDC and installing the pump to fire exactly at that timing mark. Just still concerned about the coolant temp pushing the 220 mark.

[@jennifern5376]

Ok thanks

[@rickburris6164]

But Wendell where did you find a beer can? On the road maybe?

[@tractorman4461]

Hahahaha....good one Rick. I usually don't find the time to have a beer or a softdrink actually. LOL. I got this can outta the aluminum pile. It may have been a seltzer water can from my daughter.... I didn't' even look at it. But I guarantee its not a beer can....unless I was drinking too much to notice. LOL

[@dannywilsher4165]

Nice!!!

[@tractorman4461]

Thanks Danny for stopping in for the long version. This one was a bit involved for a change.

[@dannywilsher4165]

@@tractorman4461 I enjoyed it.

[@FourthWayRanch]

Manual for 4.236 says just put it at TDC number 1 and install the pump, lining up the mark

[@tractorman4461]

I wish the 332T Perkins was that easy. This three cylinder has no timing marks on the pump or pump drive and has a friction fit tapered shaft with no keyway. It doesn't even have slotted mounting holes that can allow an easy few degrees adjustment. This one is fitted with a Lucas pump as well. Not a good design.

[@nigelgwillim644]

perkins good engine have fordson major e27n with p 6 built 1950

[@tractorman4461]

Yessir, Perkins makes a very good product. And so does Lucas....as long as they don't fail. I've had my share of Ford products with Lucas electrical problems. But in general all is good. Thank you Nigel for another visit.

[@catfish500mark9]

☆☆☆☆☆

[@tractorman4461]

Yeah, this one was a bit more than sitting a set of points. LOL

[@catfish500mark9]

☆☆☆☆☆

[@tractorman4461]

Yeah, I had to think a bit on this one.....LOL