Lucifer might be impossible

UPDATE, Got 'im: • Lucifer (Low Level, Ha...
And to think my original concern was the possibility of 3 High Kings, now it looks like the run is over unless I find a way to survive 1.
To explain further, it looks like the extra press turn mod has an effect on Lucifer that makes his AI MUCH more eager to cast Dekunda and Dekaja. If he uses both in the same turn and then uses High King there is simply no way to survive. I've attempted this fight about 10 times now and its kind of a pain because I have to re-fight Kagutsuchi to get to him again (which isn't hard but it does take a while). I think winning would require getting impossibly lucky and having him never use both Dekunda and Dekaja in the same turn (and even if he uses only one of them he can still kill my team) and I'm not sure I'm patient enough for that. Before this that hardest time I've had with a boss was Matador but that fight at least had a visible path to victory, I haven't even gotten Lucifer to the point of using Root Of Evil yet. I'll probably try a few more times but if it does seem to be impossible I'll have to either reduce the difficulty to normal or take away his extra turn, neither of which would be a particularly satisfying outcome. I think before my next round of attempts I'll fuse some backup demons, having to spend a turn on a Balm of Rising before being able to re-summon a dead demon is pretty crippling when you're already in damage control mode.

[@bernardo8993]

the basic attack *did* pierce though so like you almost had him

[@beniyasha_higurashi]

I've no idea how much this may help, but you can fuse Atavaka who learns endure at 48, then try to mitama fusion that down. He also gets Might innately, which could help marginally with getting crits, and thus more turns, especially since bright might won't work at that point

[@ZephhyrAgain]

I did fuse an Atavaka earlier in the run so I do have access to Endure. What I'm going to do is re-fuse my team but with Endure instead of Avenge and then fuse several backup demons the same way.

[@rift3487]

Does dark might work? It might be better to do a surt build

[@ZephhyrAgain]

@@rift3487 Dark might doesn't work and also this is a low level run so I can't fuse Surt.

[@LeonStephan]

Also the Raidou version is harder because Luci uses Diaharan on 40k HP and seems to use Dekunda and Dekaja more frequently than the Dante version.

[@raybob8668]

Not only that, Root of evil also has dekaja effect when it hits. Because fuck you

[@mianlo2624]

When I fought Lucifer on Hard mode. For some odd reason he never used Dekunda or Dekaja. I'm not complaining because I was able to defeat him on my first try. I thought I was going to have all my demon level 99+. Because I was terrible with choosing skills. In addition, I accidentally let my demon change their skill. So sometimes I lose a perfectly good skill with mediocre one. I was playing the Maniax version. So maybe that effect Lucifer AI.

[@valletas]

Yeah but original dante didnt have pierce so raidou will likely be your main damage dealer in the fight due to piecer

[@DeepWeeb]

​@@valletas Actually in the HD remastered because of skill inheritance you can just buy the Pierce Girimekhala from the Shady Broker, register it on the compendium and give infinite Pierce to all of your demons

[@FaeQueenCory]

​@@DeepWeebCan't fuse Dante or Raidou.

[@roqui_]

lets make the rng goddess smile upon zepphyr

[@Utka_Ivanov]

So, run is going about 2 mounths, and 1/4 of this time is took to beat Lucifer(for now, who knows how long you have to suffer) Final attempt surely be very funny P.S: Wiping entire party by one skill is surely most certified SMT moment i've ever seen

[@ZephhyrAgain]

Yeah it seems that way. If I didn't have a job I would probably take less time to get to the point that I'm at now. I'm unfortunately having to resort to the lamest possible option in order to stand a chance. Hopefully I'll yield a positive result finally. I'm also going to need to resolve my account issue before I can upload a video of the successful run anyhow, just gotta hope that KZbin support can figure out what the hell is going on.

[@oldmatthiewpurple]

Everyone! Zephhyr needs our help! Send your energy for good RNG! \o/

[@namespelldwrong9779]

sending rn-jesus your wayyy

[@hoppyhoppy9267]

\o/

[@dishtroyer142]

Praise the RNG \[T]/

[@peronafanman]

\o/

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

Endure is a necesity for this fight

[@ZephhyrAgain]

with these conditions I'm worried that Endure won't be enough.

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

@@ZephhyrAgain It's better than being borderline guaranteed to be one shot by High King. If he gets a crit no ammount of Endure is going to save you but from most situations that are not this + a High King crit you would survive.

[@ZephhyrAgain]

@@rac1equalsbestgame853 I've attempted this fight about 40 times now. Dekunda+Dekaja+High King is guaranteed to kill Demi-Fiend or proc Endure. If he arbitrarily chooses to do that twice its over. There's a long list of potential ways he can either outright kill me or inconvenience me in such a way that things rapidly snowball out of control. I'm confident that it can be done though,I just have to get a run where I make no mistakes and don't get too unlucky for 40 minutes straight.

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

@@ZephhyrAgain You got this bud 👍

[@s9rna]

Pierced!

[@matthewhenry86]

It's definitely possible, I saw a youtuber by the name of Jim Reaper do a full low level playthrough a few years back with even more restrictions. Took him forever to get a successful fight against Lucifer though 😅

[@ZephhyrAgain]

I'm fully aware of Jim Reaper's runs. If you pay attention to the video you'll see that Lucifer has 3 turns. This is because of a mod that I'm using and that's why he's so much harder.

[@lucassilvateixeira3730]

@@ZephhyrAgain Why give him three turns? That just makes it harder in a unfun way like the restrictions you were already using. Also, why not get the Masakados magatama?

[@michaelburleson2687]

@@lucassilvateixeira3730 Why give him 3? Cuz he hates himself I suppose

[@antikantik8050]

@@lucassilvateixeira3730 the purpose of the run is to make itself harder on himself and masakados magatama is banned this run.

[@Sleepy_Lunatic]

@@lucassilvateixeira3730thats the point of a challange.

[@alfredhinton8792]

You can get an extra press turn in the labyrinth of amala by Beating all the bosses in a set number of turns

[@ZephhyrAgain]

I thought you only got the extra turn on a new cycle. Even then it wouldn't save me from this combination.

[@alfredhinton8792]

@@ZephhyrAgain you can get it as soon as you enter the labyrinth in new cycle if you beat the bosses in the first run. For me it makes a difference even in hard mode

[@ZephhyrAgain]

@@alfredhinton8792 It might make it possible to win without using the mana drain strategy if I had an extra turn but it wouldn't actually improve my survivability at all. I'll think about it.

[@user-ir2ji6vm3q]

Should've been using buffs and debu... Oh, wait

[@eeyuup]

Now that's a proper skill issue, yesiree.

[@sasaworker6417]

god damn youtube algorithm finally doing its job and suggesting me megaten challenge runs instead of shitty shorts. I won't be needing luck until my next tartarus run, so you can have mine for a bit. make sure to return it tho

[@ZephhyrAgain]

I'll try not to use it all up.

[@paranoia407]

i played this game on hard and for some reason i won the lucifier fight only because he never used dekunda or dekaja once, literally what the hell

[@dylendye7410]

I heard from Deus that Lucifer in Maniax version doesn`t use dekunda/dekaja as much as he does in Chronicles

[@JaxonElzinga]

Underrated videos

[@Night-ec7ef]

Yeah, its hard and grueling, but you can do it if I can.

[@ophidianmind333]

The best way to get around this will unfortunately be time consuming. That would be to max out the HP of your party members and to fuse party members with the Endure skill and especially your Demi-fiend because he will be targeted the most by Lucifer on hard mode. If you do this, then Lucifer using both Dekunda and Dekaja in the same round won't necessarily result in disaster unless you get really unlucky with the RNG. However, if you are playing the HD remaster with the DLC included, you can do this rather quickly by farming for grimoires in the DLC area. Though some might be averse to that tactic and see it as too close to cheating, but the choice is up to you. It's either that or probably putting in 20-40 hours of additional grinding with the new demons you will have to fuse. Though getting unlucky with the RNG if you give Lucifer an extra turn on hard mode can get you killed in one round even if he doesn't remove buffs and debuffs if he gets multiple crits with his regular attack and just decides to pound on the Demi-fiend. Hell, this can even happen to you on hard mode without giving him an extra turn. It has happened to me before on hard mode with a party full of members with maxed out stats. So no matter what you do, you might just lose from pure bad luck. Don't let that discourage you and keep trying, eventually the RNG will be on your side. 😆

[@ZephhyrAgain]

Grinding for anything other than macca is categorically off the table since this is a low level run. The team I have currently (not shown) is about as tanky as they can get. Unfortunately it still isn't cutting it against a 3 turn Lucifer. I can get him to the final phase with reasonable consistency but then the luck requirement is just way too high. I've got one last option but it is almost impossibly lame.

[@ophidianmind333]

@@ZephhyrAgain I wish you the best of luck, but luck might be your only option if you are trying to stay within that criteria with the exact same party. It might be possible to win if you keep trying with your current party, but it just may take a whole lot of tries. If you went the DLC grimoire-farming route to level up new demons that you would get at a low level, you wouldn't have to worry about raising the Demi-fiend's level because the enemy parties who drop grimoires in the DLC area give you very little exp or money for that matter. The chances of the Demi-fiend gaining even a single level while you farm for the grimoires you need would be very small. Then you could have a whole party with the Endure skill without having high level characters that way. So at least Lucifer wouldn't be able to wipe your party out in a single turn that way unless you just got extremely unlucky with the attacks he used and you can just heal your party members who survive with 1 HP instead of having to spend additional turns reviving and resummoning them. The downside would be that you'd have to buy the DLC if you don't have it and some people might criticize your run if you used grimoires. Though if you are keeping your party a low level, it's not like you'd be getting overpowered with them, you'd just be cutting down the time it would take to get your new demons to the same levels as your old demons. It's too bad you can't give your demons skills from Mitamas in Nocturne like you can in some other SMT games, then you could easily just give your current demons Endure by fusing a Mitama with that skill.

[@ZephhyrAgain]

@@ophidianmind333 I don't even have to use the DLC to achieve this. Using sacrificial fusion I have 11 demons at levels 56 and 57 and the exact skillsets I need them to have (with a few concessions like element drain passives to cover weaknesses). I would have fused a 12th one but I recruited Raidou just so I wouldn't have to watch his cutscene every time I passed through his room in the 5th kalpa.

[@ophidianmind333]

@@ZephhyrAgain That is true that you could do something similar with the method mentioned, though some of the best custom demons you could make that would be strong against Lucifer this way (such as fiends who would be immune to status effects), you couldn't make through sacrificial fusion because you can't fuse them at a full Kagatsuchi. Though you can fuse Daisoujou at a full Katagsuchi and he's probably the single best fiend against Lucifer, but I think he is the only fiend who can be made using sacrificial fusion. Another way you can make your characters stronger without raising their levels is to farm for stat incenses by gathering lucky tickets. Just buy 10 cheap items, leave a store, and then come back and buy another 10 to get a lucky ticket each time and just sell the items and rebuy them when you need more. Picking the middle box in a lucky ticket drawing is the one most likely to give you a stat incense, though it sometimes gives a balm of life instead. You can save and reload before getting your 10th lucky ticket to save time on getting what you want from the drawing.

[@ZephhyrAgain]

@@ophidianmind333 I haven't farmed incenses yet but I'm not even sure if that would help much. My Loki who has 40 VIT and MAG is still getting killed often enough. I have fused a Daisoujou but that in and of itself is a concession since I've avoided using Fiends until now. There simply isn't another substitute for Lakshmi though.

[@digidudeimpmon7394]

Okay, but why does he sound like Bowser?

[@user-ky1sk7kr6t]

At first, I thought it was one of those whiny posts about how "hard" Nocturne is, but then I remembered, that you do the +1 enemy turn low level challenge... Well, time for the almighty mana drain, until a thousand years have expired.

[@bakchodbabajijoletajaancho2538]

The more time spent in cathedral of shadows the less time you'll waste dying to this boss. Get grimekhala with pierce from shady broker in 4th kalpa and then use it to fuse metatron,shiva, and Beelzebub with pierce +focus+hades blast/hassopha. Mediaharan for beelzebub and debilitate on metatron , fight is pretty easy.

[@ZephhyrAgain]

You're over a year too late with bad advice. This is from a low level challenge so anything over level 57 is not allowed. Also that's not even the problem. the problem is that he has 3 turns. Pay attention next time.

[@notreallygudetama]

did you not have any healing items or am I missing out on something

[@ZephhyrAgain]

I have plenty but that's not really the issue. The problem is that when a demon dies I have to go into damage control mode. Every time I summon a demon I have to buff it so it doesn't immediately die and I really don't want to have to waste a turn reviving any demons. On my current attempts I have a team of 11 demons so I can summon new ones instead of reviving dead ones. Also I can swap one out when its Endure triggers to keep it alive. Since I'm already casting Prayer practically every turn it doesn't matter if I tag one in at 1 HP.

[@funkymon1251]

I take it this is the regular smt3 experience? Difficulty spike in certain parts of the game?

[@ZephhyrAgain]

There are a lot of notable difficulty spike bosses in this series. This is supposed to be the hardest boss in the game but he's only potentially impossible because I've used a mod to make him harder.

[@monstergelo1072]

Have you tried only doing buff and not debuff?

[@ZephhyrAgain]

His use of Dekunda and Dekaja is not tied to any condition, if I don't use Debuffs I am just handicapping myself for no reason. If anything debuffs are better because he has 2 ways to remove buffs, Dekaja and Root of Evil.

[@Janeaba1]

High King seems OP...like tooooo OP 😅

[@FindingCreatures]

Is this the remaster on hard?

[@ZephhyrAgain]

On hard, in chronicle mode.

[@daiyahigashikata]

and modded.

[@platinumdelirium9826]

It's your fault for having extra turns on

[@damianlopez1120]

3 Press turns?

[@ZephhyrAgain]

This is an outtake from my challenge run which used a mod that gives all enemies an extra press turn.

[@benbenbenben-qw6tx]

​@@ZephhyrAgainhow much do you hate yourself?

[@Boofudyne]

does he know the method ?

[@adamharits2630]

Is this a low level run?

[@ZephhyrAgain]

yes. Low Level and he has an extra turn.

[@multiversegamer6587]

You can’t revive them? They just vanished?

[@ZephhyrAgain]

I could revive them but it would cost two turns each to return them to the active party which is too much to be viable. Watch my successful fight video to see what I did.

[@multiversegamer6587]

@@ZephhyrAgain 2 turns *EACH?*

[@ZephhyrAgain]

@@multiversegamer6587 Yes, one to revive them and another to summon them. This is made worse by the fact that if one dies I have one less press turn on the following round.

[@multiversegamer6587]

@@ZephhyrAgain That must be infuriating.

[@ZephhyrAgain]

@@multiversegamer6587 It took me ages to find a way to win this fight under the conditions I had set. Unfortunately I had to use Mana Drain to win which felt like a bit of a cop out but there wasn't really another way. I solved the revival issue by having my whole party possess endure and tagging a demon out if it procced.

[@azophi]

Should’ve used buffs and debuffs 🤷‍♀️

[@jackour8167]

He did. That's exactly why Lucifer used Dekaja and Dekunda.

[@azophi]

@@jackour8167 ik it’s a joke

[@user-fg9dc9nn4o]

Certified shin megami skill issue