Lucy Letby - The Inquiry: A Hunch Should Be Enough

Join Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull as they cover the latest evidence from the Thirlwall Inquiry, which is examining how Lucy Letby was able to commit murder whilst working at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
In this episode we recount the experiences of the parents of five babies who were killed or harmed by the neonatal nurse through their first-hand testimony. We hear how they came to question her actions and behaviour, and learn more about how and when, they say the hospital fell short in safeguarding the children in its care.
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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull
Editor: Chelsey Moore
Voice Actors: Olivia Tarr, Hannah Veness and Rowan Polonski
Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham
Executive Producer: Lucy Vallance
A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.
This episode contains some details that listeners could find distressing
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[@eloramac6203]

Excellent work allowing the voices of the parents to be heard. My heart breaks for each & every one. 😞

[@nicola7609]

Heartbreaking and absolutely eye opening to hear so much more from the parents. It all leads to suspicious behaviour from Lucy at the very least. Breaks ur heart listening to the parents testimony and guilt they feel ❤

[@philipholding]

Suspicious behaviour. Now you know the virdict!

[@eloramac6203]

I don’t understand why she had thousands of notes , confidential notes of patients in her home 🤷🏻‍♀️ I was a nurse for 40 years & would never save notes in my home re patients. I have never ever looked them up on social media either !! It’s all very bizarre behaviour from LL

[@tamararutland-mills9530]

Psychopathy. Keeping things that would remind her of what brought her joy.

[@ef5686]

a lip filler ad isnt ideal to start and set the tone for this

[@steveblundell7766]

or any ad really

[@astridjones6327]

You’re right but they don’t care. Neither do they care about the victims of this case. All they care about is making a podcast to generates an income.

[@Jess-bu7ji]

I agree, highly inappropriate

[@danielaspitz3052]

I recommend watching the channel "Crime Scene 2" , there is an exact analysis and the inquiry. Lucy Letby wasn't the scapegoat, but yes: The hospital tried saving its reputation by protecting her after the first murder(s) by telling the doctors and nurses who spoke (up) about what's happened, to stay quiet and threatened to fire them if they talk about this publicly. I think, one of the Doctors even got fired. Yes, we know that things are bad in health care systems around the world, but there is much more to this case, which is Lucy Letby's personality disorder.

[@greigsanderson]

Guilty as sin

[@greigsanderson]

Two trials, guilty.

[@tamararutland-mills9530]

A hunch would have been enough in Florida and other places that have a better working structure. The problem was the structure, and I hope changes have been made so that employees can speak out.

[@littleshubunkin7926]

The evidence of her guilt is pretty overwhelming, especially her own handwriting notes.

[@John-p7i5g]

Which ones? The ones saying 'I am innocent', or the ones saying 'I did this'?

[@steveblundell7766]

@@John-p7i5g Both. It is not unusual for a guilty person to contradict themselves in written notes due to psychological stressors and cognitive dissonance

[@philipholding]

​@@steveblundell7766or an innocent person!

[@Tymbus]

@@steveblundell7766 I don't think that you understand cognitive dissonance. Are you an expert in that area.

[@Tymbus]

We have been told that the notes were written as a response to a therapist telling Letby to write down her subjective feelings. As a trained counselor, I must point out that such thoughts may not reflect reality, merely Letby's irrational mental state.

[@Loupedelou]

I wonder why she lied to her friend about the dad crying on the floor.

[@RosieRoo-o1c]

Because she’s an attention seeking compulsive liar

[@nkjkjnkj]

the stupid ads are clearer and louder than the actual program.

[@fzrshiny]

100% Lucy was framed and used as a scapegoat for a failing NHS. I hope she can be freed ASAP

[@John-p7i5g]

A Bayesian analysis showed the chances of a spike in 2015-16 at ANY Trust was between 32% and 40%. Add to that figure the chronic understaffing, clinical errors by junior doctors, sewage issues and upgrading of CoCH to L2, and the figure approaches 100%.

[@NowledgeableKnurse]

@@John-p7i5gno baby died of infection which they were implying was the significance of blocked drains on only two occasions. Most places I’ve worked are understaffed (was this proven or anecdotal? I genuinely don’t know) but they don’t have the death rates this place did.

[@John-p7i5g]

@@NowledgeableKnurse There was a spike across the country during that period. And the year before, another Trust's neonatal ward (I believe it was Sherwood Forest but don't quote me on that) had nearly double the number of deaths. True but I don't think having a pathogen filled environment helped matters, and may have exacerbated some of the babies' conditions.

[@rapcentral96]

Fact

[@danielaspitz3052]

You're wrong about this. She did murder them

[@chrisw706]

I suspect this was a mistrial. At the time the internal and external investigations did not identify a murder. The only reason this went further is because a group of doctors had subjective concerns. None of the medical or statistical evidence stacks up and things have been presented as a sign of guilt which when you look closer don't indicate this at all

[@danielaspitz3052]

It wasn't, she IS the perpetrator..Check out people who investigated deeply into the case, especially Lucy's personaly disorder

[@philipholding]

​@danielaspitz3052 Sorry, genuine question, what type of personality disorder and support for this?

[@danielaspitz3052]

@philipholding Narcissism, sadistic.HG Tudor has analysed her and Crime Scene 2 has taken part in the trial and put all the evidence on his channel. Personally I've lived with people like her. They seem kind and they use plausible deniability which makes it hard to put a finger on their abuse and the crimes they committ.

[@SuperHuia]

A conviction without a motive, any direct evidence, and dodgy misrepresentation of statistical data is bad enough: But so many other questions remain as to the validity of this prosecuted, that there is no doubt she will ultimately face a retrial in the interest of justice. And she may well be innocent as she claims.

[@John-p7i5g]

Sure the doctors are hardly going to say we can't understand what happened it's due to a complex range of factors. Giving the parents a single silver bullet explanation solves a lot of problems at once.

[@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24]

It also protects the NHS from claims and more importantly covers up failings that I suspect are typical of every hospital accross the land. Imagine how many parents of dead child would begin questioning things if it came out every hospital has similar problems. It would be the biggest scandal in the NHS's history. Imagine the public backlash, the claims, the culpability etc.

[@steveblundell7766]

@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 What do you think is happening now? Letby IS one of the biggest scandals in NHS history

[@arfurascii2232]

@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 Are you aware that there is an inquiry ongoing that seven days in has already exposed multiple failures at multiple levels? *If* - big if - they thought a scapegoat would solve their problems they were very much mistaken.

[@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24]

@@arfurascii2232 Are you aware how misdirection works, its all about damage control. Sure they'll be an investigation but now the main villain is locked away it's simply an infotmality, a tick box exercise. Similar to MP peed dough scandals. Sacrifice some low level or minimally involved players to cover the bigger picture, hide the real players. Pretend it was a couple of "bad apples" and now all sorted.

[@arfurascii2232]

​@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 Again, the inquiry has been running for only seven days so far yet a ton of awful stuff has come out already. If this is their misdirection I would hate to see their direction.

[@cupofteawithpoetry]

Will Alison Timmis's email to the Chief Executive be raised? "Things are stretched thinner and thinner and are at breaking point. When things snap, the casualties will either be children's lives or the mental and physical health of our staff." (Dec 2015) Also, the presence of a fatal bacteria and backed up sewage? Scapegoat?

[@Loupedelou]

They had a hospital plumber give evidence in the trial

[@Mervyn-wj1bi]

I'm just asking the question, not suggesting anything. But is it in the parents financial interest for Lucy to be guilty? Do they receive some sort of victim compensation or other financial compensation from the hospital if their baby is deemed to have been murdered over dying of natural causes?

[@shereeharrison5610]

Lip filler advertising isnt recommendable on such a,very sensitive podcast

[@127baltic]

So, did Letby just get angry about something for a while and then stopped murdering again....or before.

[@Mervyn-wj1bi]

Stop calling the parents' testimony "evidence" as if it's somehow "evidence" that Lucy is guilty of murder, it's just testimony of stuff that happened. Not evidence of anything. Other than "evidence" of Lucy being at work, for work purposes, doing work things. As far as i know, she's never denied being at work, working.

[@John-p7i5g]

Just like in the 1500s, a hunch was often enough to uncover a case of witchcraft. This could be as small a thing as owning cats or living next to a cemetery, both of which were true of Lucy.

[@nicholashaines8481]

Okay here's a complex reasoning problem. The prosecutor's fallacy is a form of logical fallacy. It consists of assuming, incorrectly, that the probability of guilt given a particular set of evidence is the same thing as the probability of a particular set of evidence given guilt. Those two concepts are actually separate. For example, if a prosecutor says to a defendant, "There was a study of 5000 guilty people who definitely committed this type of crime - they were convicted and eventually acknowledged their guilt. Here is an evidentiary feature that appeared in 99.9 percent of those 5000 people. Your case has that feature. Therefore there is a 99.9 percent probability that you are guilty." That is not true. The 99.9 percent statistic is based on knowing for certain that people are guilty. It is irrelevant to a situation where guilt is uncertain. It can't be used to resolve uncertainty about guilt because it only applies to situations where there is no uncertainty about guilt. Discuss the ways in which the Countess of Chester Hospital paediatricians' allegations against Lucy Letby, the police investigation into Lucy Letby, the trial of Lucy Letby, and the UK media coverage of the Lucy Letby story illustrate the logical fallacy known as the prosecutor's fallacy.

[@Mervyn-wj1bi]

Newsflash! women exaggerate. Not a crime... yet, but then again with Kier you never know. Coming soon. Lol what is she suggesting, please examine every nurse/doctors personal text messages every day just incase one of them exaggerates something to someone else.. Interesting though, we didn't hear testimony of the father in this clip, maybe he was crying... maybe the wife was somewhere else so missed it. Why are we hearing from the wife about how the husband did or didn't react? and who cares if he cried or not, men often deny crying...

[@rapcentral96]

FREE LUCY LETBY

[@KingBee24]

A hunch is irrelevant. The parents are too emotional to see things clearly. My mother died in hospital, completely unexpectedly. I interviewed the doctors and nurses, convinced that they hadn't done their jobs properly. It's human nature to look for answers and for somebody to blame. The reality is that nobody did anything wrong. Hunches and feelings shouldn't be taken as evidence of wrongdoing.

[@arfurascii2232]

That's not what the mother suggested. She said, "A hunch should be enough to at least look at what was happening."

[@CrookedHalo-bx4oe]

Your comparing your mother I’m going guess elderly to new born babies some who was ready to go home one weighing 6.7lbs Total opposite ends of the spectrum

[@zerohax6076]

I think u should release her.

[@steveblundell7766]

This is just a podcast, its not the court of appeal

[@John-p7i5g]

@@steveblundell7766 Original Poster is probably outside the UK and addressing UK as a whole

[@sophiewren6504]

I don’t

[@nicolajevanadeshda9797]

🤔Belgiqoue 1420