Lucy Letby & the Witch in the Shadow

[@hudsonlawrence]

8:12 whoa. "the mask does not want to acknowledge the shadow" what a gem of a phrase

[@zeddeka]

Pretty much all set out in Carl Jung's work. The shadow is an important part of Carl Jung's theories. My favourite quotation by Jung about the shadow is this, which pretty much says the same thing: "By not being aware you have a shadow, you declare a part of your personality to be non-existent. Then it enters the kingdom of the non-existent, which swells up and takes on enormous proportions...If you get rid of qualities you don't like by denying them, you become more and more unaware of what you are, you declare yourself more and more non-existent, and your devils will grow fatter and fatter."

[@Servo1616]

If you haven't already, you may want to look up the case of 1970s reporter Christine Chubbuck. While she didn't kill anyone (outside of herself), very tragic and the way you talked about this case reminded me so much of her. It's similar even down to the child-like bedroom vs. highly professional demeanor at work.

[@darrellcovello7917]

Being able to just be happy for other people will make your life so much better, and can even bring you joy

[@catherinejane6195]

Yes it's very healing. Love brings out the best in us

[@Amazology]

If one can access love that's a good strategy, perhaps some people are denied access to love by the adaptations they have developed to survive early childhood 🤷‍♀️

[@stellar52]

Not to a Narcissist

[@suze9760]

I really don't agree. I think that is exactly the message she was being given by her religion and her parents all her life and deep down inside, it meant denying herself any kind of pleasure or joy of her own That's why she developed the dark side to her personality to allow her to express the anger at her lack of fulfilment that she was never able to when she was in "goody Two shoes" mode. It's like a child or a fairy tale being told all your life. But if you are very very good wonderful things will happen and there she was, doing her very very best and even doing extra shifts and being extra kind to people and still she couldn't have the simple pleasure of having a family of her own. And one of her notes she says "I wasn't good enough to care for them". And I think that means the only way she can fathom out why she is not having the fulfilment in life that she wanted was because she hadn't been a good girl or at least not a good enough girl

[@darrellcovello7917]

@suze9760 what does being a goodie-two-shoes have to do with being happy for other people. It was her absolute envy that led to extreme evil

[@Oshunsprite]

Really impressed with your analysis. No one yet has commented this clearly on the splitting of her personality to explain those notes she wrote. Such a good point you make too that her not having to come to court at the end was "enabling her pathology".

[@TrevorBoggs]

this is the best analysis of the case I’ve heard - well done

[@charlotte_sometimes_1]

Agreed

[@angelajones4193]

I agree too. This case has really perplexed me. It's so awful that it is hard to comprehend. Thank you for your analysis. And your humanity. Some simply describe this as psychopathy - you have made so much more sense of those notes for me.

[@anniebrown4333]

Absolutely

[@Lizzie-h3j]

Absolutely I fully believe this man's analysis on these kinds of people. He's got more than enough credentials he's super smart. I'm finding it really hard hearing just how evil this woman truly is and it's all coming out now. I want to see her interviews but because it's still an open case who knows if or when they'll ever be released. I work in child protection in the UK, and the way she flew under the radar has shaken me to my core.

[@Norway-Norwegian]

Still wondering: Why does that evil note start with «they»? Who are they that spoke? : «They went ‘I DID THIS. I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them. I am a horrible evil person. I AM EVIL. I DID THIS.’»

[@OneDeepDegree]

Mannnn seriously one of the absolute best part of your videos are not putting a lame 1 to 2 minute intro and outro!!! Ill rewatch these for sure and am excited for more👍🏽👍🏽

[@phonkyfeel1]

Totally agree.

[@KennyPowers-dx3mz]

Refreshing for sure, this channel is one of my best finds 2024. Thanks Andrew.

[@suze9760]

Me too. It's hard enough scrolling past the adverts. Never mind. All the repetitive pleas to 'like' 'subscribe' etc etc

[@clairkeleher5437]

This is one of the best analyses I’ve seen on her potential inner workings. It’s interesting the first three deaths occurred in the two weeks directly after celebrating someone’s bachelorette party weekend away. Envy and a deep seated feeling of inadequacy.

[@HumanimalChannel]

Can you believe, there are groups supporting her appeals and saying she is being wrongly accused...bleargh!

[@howlwhat4498]

@@HumanimalChannel they relate to her too much

[@JayCee-hw4zc]

Good point. Good pick up.

[@JayCee-hw4zc]

​@@howlwhat4498oooh now there's an interesting idea.

[@Rainybones]

I was happy to see your cat walking around. This is such a depressing and sad event. Thank you for wonderfully explaining things as usual.

[@deborahbergman3566]

I love the tux kitty cat.....it was as if his tux kitty was like, "uhhhhmm...sorry to interrupt your presentation, but it's Feed Me O'clock." lol

[@Claire_by_the_Seashore]

Kitty made my day 😻

[@gjh9299]

yay cats

[@coconow1]

I enjoyed that too! 😅

[@colinellicott9737]

I think she (Lucy Letby) was recreating the story she had been told about herself, but with a sick twist. She was told she was a sick newborn, and her parents told her over and over how scared they were but how happy when their baby ( her - Lucy) came through OK. She was reliving her earliest days by severely injuring her charges, and seeing the pain in the parents faces. She was enjoying hurting the parents - as if she was hurting her own parents, those smothering, controlling, helicopter annoying, bothersome interfering parents. Munchhausen's by proxy, by proxy. A sick twist.

[@camerachica73]

That's an interesting point. I don't think she had a bad relationship with her parents, but maybe didn't want to disappoint them when they expected her to go on holiday with them three times a year to the same old place they had been since she was a child. She didn't have a chance of a relationship if she couldn't be the one to cut the apron strings.

[@Debs440606]

Yeah, it was the only power and control she had in her life.

[@deborahmulkey1627]

I had very similar thoughts. I also had the thought that perhaps she was subconsciously killing her own premature self, and then looking up the status and such of the parents of the babies to reenact or visualize, with pleasure, I might add, the grief that her parents might have gone through if she had died in infancy. She's a very sick young woman.

[@grantmitchel]

maybe search "science on trial Lucy Letby"

[@deborahbergman3566]

Third Deb on here haha. Yes, good point! As I mentioned on here ... I kinda think she didn't really want to kill but become a "super nurse" and save them. But your point might be on point :). Sad horrific situation ... and I feel we will be seeing more of this since the pandemic or post pandemic for obvious reasons behind struggle, more stressors, and competition among a higher population. Hope that made sense.

[@tcancella7286]

Your insights are very informative. You also set a good example of stepping back when emotions get too overwhelming. I am a pediatrician, who worked in the NICU during residency. Obviously most NICU nurses are lovely and dedicated and LL doesn’t typify them. I will say though, the NICU is the most “veterinary medicine” (a term pediatricians use since so many of our patients can’t speak) and the tiny babies (and their helpless frightened parents) are so vulnerable and under more control even than the PICU. It would draw the type that wanted power and control at the bedside. And all physician residents get “hazed” by nurses, in my experience the NICU nurses were the only ones that made me cry as a young doctor

[@ihaveseensuchthings]

Wow, thank you for sharing this. What an interesting and insightful look behind the profession (one not necessarily related to this case, but nonetheless fascinating). I’d love to see this angle-and similar workplace culture variables- addressed more often in terms of the sociology of medicine. Nursing itself is known to be among the most stressful occupations, for good reason. Certainly resident doctors experience much the same. None of that can excuse or even explain the actions of an individual like LL, but it suggests that more could be done to assess the mental health, psychological development (!), and collective workplace health of those involved.

[@Debs440606]

Very interesting to hear from a medical professional. I get what you’re saying. LL however did not fool the Paediatricians on her watch, the disgusting management refused to tarnish the reputation of the hospital and supported LL in her claim of bullying. I hope they are held to account for what they did. How ironic the very thing they wanted to avoid, they made much worse - all retired on fat pensions or working in other hospital trusts. 🤷‍♀️

[@luminyam6145]

I am really sorry those nurses were wretched bullies. I can't stand bullies (geriatric rehab nurse since 1976)

[@lisasmith7066]

@@Debs440606We have seen the same phenomenon with Hospital Administration in cases of killer nurses in the US. One was made into a movie (recent, Netflix (?). The administrators at more than one hospital quietly let the nurse go without any records of his actions. If memory serves I think 3 different hospitals took this approach. Instead of calling the police they simply let him become another hospitals problem. I think hospitals get grant money, or funding, etc. Plus they don’t want to tarnish their reputation as a great hospital. But yes the doctors at baby 3 knew something was going on but they were scolded and told the Administration would handle it. In Letby’s case, of course, they never did. It wasn’t until the doctors put their own asses on the line and and gave the Administrators an ultimatum that the police were finally called. 😢

[@tcancella7286]

@@Debs440606 at first I guess she did fool them, as there was a quote from one MD “not nice Lucy” but eventually yes some of the MDs, and likely other nurses, were the ones to cry out in order to protect any more babies

[@carolinecatastrophe]

This is the best analysis I've seen on her yet. Thanks Doctor.

[@AudreysBrains]

As a neurologist- awesome breakdowns like this are why we know psychiatrists are true wizards in medicine :)

[@TheWarsuron]

The diagnoses are not based on science.

[@Trish-ql9kz]

@@TheWarsuronThe workings of the mind can’t be based on science!

[@nomudnolotus4410]

Nice humble brag there lol. As someone who wants any excuse to mention they're a neurologist this is what I think lol

[@AudreysBrains]

@@nomudnolotus4410 Bahaha I didnt mean it that way but totally see it now- I was more trying to make the point that neurologists bow down to psychiatrists for their insight!

[@nomudnolotus4410]

@@AudreysBrains lol I just have a massive problem with narcissistic people and like calling them out but your healthy humble response to my criticism certainly rules you out.

[@kareno7792]

THANK YOU for this video! Wow, has it really opened my eyes. I know it's going to sound like this comment is all about me, me, me and I apologize for that but you've helped explain some things that I've been searching for answers to and I'm so happy right now. Growing up, I knew my mother was never right. She was neglectful, mean, and at times I'd say she downright hated me. I remember as a young teen going to the library and looking in the psychology section to see if I could figure out what she had. Bi-polar (or manic depression at that time), schizophrenia, depression -- none of them really fit. I don't think personality disorders were diagnoses in the 70's or at least not in the books I looked at. Many, many years later NPD was thrown around everywhere. I thought maybe she had that yet there were still some things that didn't fit. About a year before she died (5 years ago now) she was acting up so much I googled and found BPD. Bingo! With the great description you gave of splitting, I am now 99.99% certain my mother definitely had BPD. My aunt (my mother's sister) was her first target. Boy was my mother envious of her older sister. Even as a little kid I could see how she'd huff and puff about my "show-offy" aunt. Her jealousy was not limited to my aunt though. She was jealous of many people and now that I'm an adult, I look back and think I may have been one of them. When I'd tell my aunt I couldn't figure out why my mother was the way she was, she'd tell me that she was spoiled rotten as a kid. My mother was the baby of the family and my aunt said she could never get enough attention, especially from their parents. When I was a child my grandmother would come and stay with us every summer and from what I would observe, my mother seemed to exasperate my poor grandmother so she would just placate my mother to make her happy. Fast forward to when my mother and aunt were in their 80's. My mother blew up at my aunt for an unknown reason but later that day my aunt told me she came over to her house in tears saying she doesn't know why she is so evil at times and just wants to be loved by my aunt. Crazy. Sorry I'm rambling with this but if you're still reading at this point I just have to thank you again for explaining BPD, envy, and splitting so well. I'm close to 60 now but find this so helpful in answering questions that have been bugging me for a lifetime. (Edited to change 80's to 70's. Apparently I think I am younger than I actually am. 😆)

[@kareno7792]

Dr., while I was ranting on about my mother issues I rudely forgot to let you know that your video has been the most excellent analysis of LL that I have watched. You explained all the conflicting behaviors and, again, answered a lot of puzzling questions. Your insight is much appreciated.

[@deborahbergman3566]

GB you for your endeavors on trying to put the pieces together. Your mom sounds so much like mine. I will always love my late mom....the saddest thing of all was that she'd raise my older sibling to become WORSE than her....and to eventually as I believe murder our mom in 2019. One month later, our father in a neighboring state would be dead. You're doing a great service in telling your story young lady...so never apologize as it can help others in some way or another! I'm 50 and I'm still trying to put the pieces together.

[@christinareihill]

Your “ ramblings” outline, detail and nail, word for word , my experience, as an older sister, to a younger sister!. It’s consoling to read your comment🙏

[@Ava22159]

But she didn't commit any crimes . ?

[@kareno7792]

@@deborahbergman3566 Thank you. It's taken me a long time to come to grips with a mother like mine. I (along with my younger brother who was the apple of her eye) was fed, clothed, went to decent schools, etc. yet she was so awful to me. I feel like a whiner at times complaining about my experiences when others had it so much worse. I hope that you are now avoiding your older sibling, I'd certainly be afraid of them if your suspicions are correct. E gads. And good luck to you in putting together the pieces of your puzzling mother. I know I'll always have questions about my mother's behavior but it feels so validating to know it really wasn't me. She really did have something wrong with her. Who knows, after being raised by her I always worry I have something too, but that's for contemplation on another day, lol.

[@heather173]

Oh, dear I've now gone through every one of your videos, and should note- we absolutely need MORE. (No pressure, though) Old psych. nurse here, love your content.

[@tonyausten2168]

I love the envious rage part. I want to read more about it. Also thank you for introducing me to Christine Lawson

[@FirstThief]

I’m so excited that you analyzed this!

[@chelscara]

The comments about envy and “incel” killers really stood out to me. I feel like most of us go through heavily envious periods of our lives, usually during puberty, and we’re able to get out of that mindset as we mature and go through different experiences (personally, therapy was helpful lmao) and those help us the learn and get out of that mindset for the most part, on having to deal with random crops of envy coming up in our lives. But some people don’t go through that maturation, and this is an unfortunate possible outcome of that

[@india1422]

Oh god yes. As a teenager I was deeply insecure, had experienced domestic violence. I had all of those deep, unrequited passions which caused deep emotional torment. Yet I did not turn into a spree killer or an abuser in any way.

[@missbelle13222]

@@india1422yet lol

[@lisaadams6753]

I’m really entranced by this content. I love the informality and the obvious passion. Also, there’s such depths in the analysis. Fabulous.

[@juliecrone1500]

I think this might be the best speculative psychological analysis of Lucy Letby that I've seen. Well done!

[@Sushia86]

I was going to say this is the best analysis on this case I’ve seen but so many people already mentioned how brilliant you are at breakdown Lucy Letby’s mental mind labyrinth. So, instead I’m simply going to say how sorry I feel that you had to go through reviewing such a horrible case and horrendous crimes. You ended your video saying you’re stopping there as you also need to compartmentalize it just shows how intense researching her case was and the toll it took on you. Wishing you a good self care moment and thank you for sharing amazing insights and sharing some light! Trying to comprehend the indescribable can drive one to insanity. Stay safe out there! Cheers.

[@Spaceseeker]

Finally! Been waiting for someone to see the BPD traits I see in this person's notes and behaviour (the childlike bedroom. the notes, the presentation as a rational professional person) - I'm close to someone with BPD. You explain it so well.

[@albin2232]

To qualify for a diagnosis of BPD, you have to have a minimum of 5 out of the 9 BPD Traits laid out in the DSM-V. If you have less than 5, you can't be said to have BPD, though you can be said to have BPD Traits. If she was guilty, the correct diagnosis would be Antisocial Personality Disorder, which can contain Sociopathy and Psychopathy. It's a spectrum. BPD Traits can be part of that picture.

[@Spaceseeker]

@@albin2232 Which is why I said 'BPD traits'

[@albin2232]

@@Spaceseeker You spoke a lot of the time as if she'd been diagnosed with BPD. It's forgivable, as your mental state clearly wasn't at its best when you made the video.

[@dalpaengi]

@@albin2232huh?

[@velvetunderbite]

​@@albin2232why are you so mad goddamn 😭

[@kathrynmarie412]

I learn SO much from your analyses than any other individual on this platform. As mentally and physically draining it must be to cover cases such as Lucy, thank you for taking the time to break down these outrageous and heartbreaking situations and patterns so we may better understand the complexities & consequences of the mind.

[@AndPsych]

Glad to hear it’s helpful - thanks for the support

[@guccvi6746]

Andrew you are poetic in the way of your analysis and comparisons throughout your videos, it's both educating and very thought inducing, I just recently found your channel and am eager for more , thank you for allowing us to explore other educated perspectives through you.

[@sbeast64]

12:23 _"...and so she would say that the envious person would rather destroy the good than remain helplessly dependent on it."_ 12:33 _"...that envy motivates not only the destruction of the desired object but also the part of the mind that even desires it you want to destroy that as well."_ Important and powerful quotes that may be relevant to this case. Also, whoever chose to include envy in the '7 deadly sins' was definitely onto something. I'm still not 100% sure either way, but I found this video to be insightful.

[@Marigold502]

The 7 deadly sins are from Christianity

[@harrietthespy2119]

I have found so much success in clients’ healing and self-integration (BPD, DID, C-PTSD, etc.) with EMDR+IFS. Not one person who is truly desirous of healing will be disappointed.

[@chandrad951]

Fascinating. I do EMDR with some of my clients. I don’t know a ton about IFS, but I can see how they would meld well together.

[@sabrinaszabo9355]

Debrowski and the theory of positive disintegration, auto psychotherapy… But CPTSD, that was just where I started. It’s multidisciplinary.

[@traces2807]

When a family member was diagnosed with BPD, everything I researched about it was very upsetting. This lead me to contact CAMH in Toronto. I spoke to a person directly involved with Dialectical Behavioural Therapy for BPD patients. She told me that if the person with the disorder worked hard to understand and regulate their emotions, they can reach a point where they wouldn't even meet the criteria for the diagnosis. The desire of the patient to become well is importatnt. That was very encouraging to hear, when you consider how stigmatizing the diagnosis is. My concern is that stigma is further fuelled by high profile cases like these. Not all BPD sufferers are serial murderers. An interesting note - the family member I mentioned was actually RE-diagnosed and was found to be on the autistic spectrum. I have since heard of others being wrongly diagnosed with BPD when they are on the spectrum. Anyway, good analysis - you went further into the behaviour than "well, it's just that she's evil." While yes, she did the most heinous, evil things - there are many other elements to dissect. I agree and understand your emotions while researching this case. It's just too much.

[@karentonks7581]

Infact I'd suggest most BPD sufferers aren't serial murderers. That would be a more accurate analysis

[@luiysia]

i hate to think that someday if i ever commit some unspeakable act someone will be judging me for how messy my room is and how that's clearly evidence of my fractured psyche...

[@missbearlockholmes]

Exactly. My whole house needs help. I'll be convicted right away.

[@mooseratt]

Maybe spend less time on the Internet making jokes on videos about murdered infants, and clean your damn room

[@touchedbyfire99]

Dr. Andrew, this is the best description of my mother cycling through the borderline “types” that I have ever heard.

[@linnnea8171]

You are just awesome. You made Lucy Letby make sense, you made Chris Watts make sense. I've had enough personality disorder traits myself to know what that's like and very often I feel that most experts just do not get it right. You do and it's just so obvious, an "of course" moment every time.

[@zeddeka]

I imagine that Jung' theory of the shadow is very applicable to a lot of serial killers and sex offenders, who are perfectly capable of mixing their crimes with what seems like a perfectly normal life.

[@Pearleace]

no. psychopathy doesn't require one to separate anything about themselves, it is their lack of empathy that enables them to live perfectly normal lives without a care in the world while committing the most heinous crimes imaginable. i wish these things were more understood by the healthy community, instead of trying to make sense of why these people act that way as if they were similar to us. they are not.

[@zeddeka]

That's a fairly ridiculous statement given that nobody can actually agree on what a psychopath is. There's a reason why it's not a diagnosis in any psychiatric or psychological organisation. If you use the DSM system, the nearest you will get is antisocial personality disorder, which is a much broader concept. Our understanding of these things is still highly limited and very crude. Indeed, personality disorders are not even agreed on (the ICD has scrapped all of the old personality disorder categories and replaced them with a dimensional model with records traits and their severity). I do wish people would stop making statements about things as if they're written in stone, when in fact they're highly controversial concepts which many do not even recognise.

[@Pearleace]

@@zeddeka 🥱

[@effielunn]

Envy as a motivation brings to mind the story of the dog in the manger. Really interesting take

[@Claire_by_the_Seashore]

Dr. van der Vaart, thank you. Not only is this an excellent discussion of BPD in general. But when you work with families where there are intergenerational factors to think about and address, this was particularly helpful. I really appreciate your channel.

[@AndyT-np8mm]

But in this specific case, I think he's really on the wrong track. Andrew's main misunderstanding concerns the notes; they were all written AFTER she had been accused. Even Peter Hitchens, brother of Christopher Hitchens, RIP, is now questioning the verdict in a major UK national daily. Search for Peter Hitchens "What if Lucy Letby is not guilty?"

[@Claire_by_the_Seashore]

@@AndyT-np8mm I’m not interested in diagnosing particular people I don’t know and will never meet or in assessing guilt or innocence. I’m interested in accumulating information regarding BPD, as he did when he referred to a work by Dr. Christine Lawson.

[@AndyT-np8mm]

@@Claire_by_the_Seashore oh I see. In my view Dr. Robert O. Friedel's book "BPD Demystified" is one of the best. There are also two German authors, who've really opened my eyes to the complexities of the condition: Hans J. Grabe and Karsten Giertz.

[@lisaharrison117]

I could listen to you all day - fascinating stuff, despite the horror of the subject matter. Great channel.

[@swayp5715]

Very good analysis. Better than just calling her a narcissist with sadistic and psychopathic tendencies. Your analysis shows a kind of schizophrenic element with parts of the mind split off from the others. Makes more sense. Well done.

[@lauramarie9131]

I love your videos. Thanks so much for posting.

[@Tubeeuk]

Love this kind of breakdown. Watched a few if your videos now. Great work. Different level of analysis from the typical. Thank you

[@davidpeck4483]

Escalation was my word of the year but now it compartmentalization

[@allisonhogg5131]

Thank you. I am a retired mental health nurse and always enjoy your insights. I am from England and have followed her trial for months.

[@littleflower23]

Insightful analysis of BPD. It helped me to understand about the rage/envy and hypergraphia in a way I hadn't understood BPD before.

[@snappyspeak]

Interesting assessment.

[@EveryTimeV2]

The Letby case should alarm people more because there isn't hard evidence against Letby but rather speculations based on coincidental evidence which when pressed starts to fall over and give doubt where beyond a reasonable doubt is required for conviction, so, this video is also speculative.

[@vihmake]

Just listened to the Crime Scene 2 Courtroom podcast. He says Lucy started killing before meeting the anonymous married doctor etc. But still, it makes sense that envy or jealousy was part of her motive. This case is so terrible that I couldn't bear to listen to what was done to each baby, but I find myself being oddly obsessed with the question of why she did what she did.

[@surryakhan7989]

same here, I too am obsessed with.... Why?

[@francesrobson1621]

Thank you- that made alot of sense. Soooo much better than everyone just saying she is a narcissist. I guess that’s the difference in analysis between an actual psychiatrist and an armchair mental health expert. 😊

[@Woodman-Spare-that-tree]

A blind dog could see the motivation was envy

[@TheTinoXL]

New subscriber here, just binge watching your content atm. Absolutely fascinating. Can't believe your only on 11k. Keep going you are sure to blow up

[@Polyphemus47]

5 months later, he's at 17K, and rising. I'm new to the channel, too, and bingeing.

[@scarba]

A forensic psychologist suggested that the scribbled notes were her thinking of things that she might say if she were arrested again since these notes were made after her first arrest. Preparation notes of various scenarios and how she could reply to the investigators. Basically considering whether to confess or play innocent etc. I think this explanation is also very plausible. I personally interpreted her saying that she won’t get married or have children as meaning she won’t because she will be in prison. It makes no sense to worry about it otherwise as a 25 year old.

[@robynmeyer7796]

Firstly I agree with Andrew that her hypergraphia is some sort of purging (or perhaps attempts to find perspective or acceptance). “I won’t get married or have children” can be interpreted in a variety of ways…other suggestions: • consequence of what she had done • consequence of having been accused (nobody would ever want her) • that she was so cemented in her feelings toward her beau that she wanted no one else (and accepted they wouldn’t be together) • that she hated children and the thought of being tied into a relationship • that she was aware she had a condition that was out on a limb and dangerous • that if she was found guilty this was reality • that she was coming to terms with her situation • that she would have wanted children and marriage but couldn’t provide that to her parents as she planned suicide (a regret) • that she was internalising responses to questions from parents, police etc to appear more natural (manipulation) Amidst her scribbles is LOVE HATE…opposite emotions - strong emotional intensity/imbalance (softening them and using like, enjoy, appreciate, don’t like, or respect slow emotional swings). None of us will ever really know…but the hyperagraphia is a symptom that points toward certain psychological or behavioural disorders…which is what Andrew is saying and bears recognition (factoring in) if making accurate diagnosis.

[@Ava22159]

I think she was just doodling her thoughts at the time.If it was a confession why did she plead not guilty?

[@sarahholland2600]

They're very scattered & disjointed notes . Surely they'd be more orderly & organised if it was planned & tactical. It looks like an anxiety dump that you pour out. It sort of looks like the note I wrote to myself re my fathers passing. I wasnt coping, despite going thru the motions at work & it just all bubbled up 1 day & I wrote it all down, crying: it was a totally non chronological ( he was ill 6 months first) jumbled mix of thoughts, grief, loss & anger, that once out, was hugely cathartic.

[@Billybloop]

I do think there was some level of self loathing. She had never had a romantic relationship before.

[@TerryManlove1]

It’s too bad the hospital didn’t pull her out of NICU much sooner. Hospital was worried re lawsuits and loss of reputation I presume. Really enjoy your videos and thank you for your dedication. Peace.

[@Ava22159]

Yes that's the bottom line. Another alternative could have been to close the unit.Again it would have come down to lack of funding no cots etc.

[@sukell1976]

It’s not “too bad “ it’s absolutely disgusting and disgraceful that the managers of the hospital didn’t listen to the major concerns of seven consultant paediatricians and by refusing to remove her from the unit then allowed LL to kill two more babies and harm others. Statutory inquiry has today been agreed so those involved will be thoroughly investigated and questioned for their part in these horrific murders continuing. RIP to those precious babies.

[@spiralrose]

Lucy Letby Isn’t the only “angel of death “that has been around hospitals and has killed patients before… There have been others and just like Lucy, they aren’t investigated by the hospital for the unusual amount of death that crops up around them… If anything they are just sent to a different hospital. The hospital want to protect the profits more than the people. I don’t know if that’s just another terrible side effect of for-profit healthcare or if that’s just a big business practice in general… Get rid of the problem with this little fuss as possible, even when it comes to innocent lives being destroyed and families being ruined Or newborn babies being murdered in their nicu

[@greenbeansnthings]

As soon as I read the note, it was instantly giving BPD to me. There’s a certain desperation to the pain of BPD. I think a lot of people logically understand BPD and symptoms at this point, but still can’t even comprehend what that experience is like for that individual. One of my textbooks described it as “emotional hemophilia” which is the most accurate description I’ve ever read. Personally, my emotional outbursts only ever made me a danger to myself bc one of my triggers is hurting other people. My hypothesis is that the envy was taken to the highest degree and the emotional pain of those negative experiences was only relieved by violent acts against those who “caused” the pain. Again, my personal vice was head-banging (later found out I am on the spectrum) during what I now know as meltdowns. Others react outwardly towards others

[@katnm4198]

Thanks for uploading more i think you're one of the better "true crime" commentators because of your background. It's genuinely compelling and enlightening Thanks Andrew

[@Whitestripe71]

This is a fascinating video, and you've given me a lot of food for thought. I really appreciate your expertise & insights. I'm in the UK and this case has really gotten under my skin, genuinely disturbed me. I was looking at her through the lens of her being a psychopath - and I wasn't sure how much credence to attach to those notes of hers - I wasn't sure if she'd written them with the intention of them being found by the police, and it was all part of her game-playing/manipulation. But you offer a really interesting & informed perspective on this whole case, and I feel like I've learnt a lot from this video - and I'd say I've experienced a little catharsis, too, so I'm very grateful to you for that, thanks.

[@ElizaBlue-o1i]

What I found so intriguing about her choice of criminal act was the mirroring - she herself was a very sick newborn who required intensive medical care to survive, and was regarded as a 'miracle' by her parents. Thereafter they seem to have over-parented, over-protected and over-controlled her, to a degree that may have prevented her from being able to develop a proper sense of autonomy as an adult, which in turn may have been the real reason she couldn't form (or even imagine, apparently) normal healthy romantic relationships. It is striking to me that in taking these babies away from their families permanently and devastating the hopes of the parents for that precious child, she did the same thing to her own parents - removed their precious child forever, and crushed all hopes they had for her. It seems to me they may have been the actual target of her unconscious rage, whatever else was going on in her psyche.

[@Poutnicek]

This was very useful, thank you for naming your sources. I will definitely look into the book about BPD mothers.

[@chikacherrycola9189]

Thanks!

[@AndPsych]

Thank you for supporting the channel, @chikacherrycola9189

[@megaloschemos9113]

The best breakdown of this case I have heard, and I've listened to alot. Thank you

[@emze13]

My favorite channel, thank you for your hard work!!

[@HLl564]

Thank you for making great videos

[@AndPsych]

You’re welcome and thank you!

[@thatsnotmyname1]

I was expectantly waiting for this video. Thank you, thank you!

[@zeddeka]

A fascinating insight - I think you may well be right about a number of things. I wonder if indeed she also had some form of ASD (although obviously that doesn't make you a killer). A number of the most infamous incels had ASD, and descriptions of her do seem to meet some of the more stereotypical traits of ASD. There was a highly controversial bit of work a few years ago in which the authors said that a combination of ASD, head injury and childhood trauma were disproportionately common in serial killers.

[@spiralrose]

The problem is that autism has become the most popular diagnosis today, and the diagnosis criteria for autism has been moved around… My psychiatrist told me that the diagnosis was changed into a spectrum in order for families whose children have developmental delays to get state sponsored They needed to have a diagnosis to get an IEP or things like that so when something didn’t have a clear diagnosis, they would just write autism spectrum disorder, and carry-on because at least that way the kid would get help and extra focus

[@zeddeka]

​@@spiralroseyou have to be careful about transposing American culture onto other countries. Let's not forget that Lucy Letby is not American, nor was the study about an overlap between autism and serial killing (it was done at the University of Glasgow in Scotland). I don't know about the American system, but a desire to get "state sponsorship" just isn't an issue in many other countries like it appears to be in America. Regarding the actual diagnosis criteria, the only change that I'm aware of here in the UK is that the term "Asperger's" is no longer used because of Asperger's link to the Nazis. It's been rolled up into Austistic Spectrum Disorder, with what was formerly called Asperger's being considered a "mild" form of it.

[@giorgismama8024]

Your analysis is excellent. I really appreciate and enjoy your videos. Envy destroys so much and the person who envies misses out on so much in life. The book about borderline mothers and the archetypes sounds so interesting. Thank you!

[@SomeOne-zw6kh]

7:28 I feel like this is a familiar feeling as a drug addict in recovery. I'm a completely different person, so it's very difficult to face the things I've done in the past. Even having gone thru years of therapy, I still think, "That couldn't have been me. Let's just avoid that reality."

[@Paul-dv4dr]

Best analysis I've seen so far - well done. I've wondered why nobody mentioned she killed 2 immediately after returning from holiday, where she would have seen a lot of happy couples.

[@Ava22159]

I think that may have been a coincidence as she hadn't had a chance for 2 weeks. I myself don't think it was to do with her private life.

[@Paul-dv4dr]

@@Ava22159 You might be right... yet holidays can be times when young people get to live out bits of their repressed fantasies (sex, drugs, parties etc - especially on Ibiza! But that stuff was not L's style) so maybe Lucy was thinking - "there's still something missing that I need to do in order to feel fulfilled." So she came back onto the ward "with a bang", as she put it.

[@Ava22159]

@@Paul-dv4dr Apparently she did go out partying quite a bit she'd been seen in clubs here in Liverpool as well. I think it's just coincidences not sure at all really that her life outside the unit was a cause of the crimes she commited.

[@Paul-dv4dr]

@@Ava22159 Hmm... I'd say her upbringing, lifestyle, relationships, life experience, hopes, fears, desires all had something to do with the building of her evil character but that's just a hunch! We'll have to agree to disagree : )

[@Ava22159]

@@Paul-dv4dr Yes that fine that's OK.But don't forget her age of 26.. she wouldn't have had a lot of experience. She's a Psychopath.

[@HLl564]

You should reach a bigger audience, your insights are so valuable

[@clockworkpink13]

Brilliant analysis Dr. How tragic. This was my fear when my daughter was sick as a newborn.

[@HumanimalChannel]

I don't want to sound fanatical or trite, but, this analysis is just so brilliant.

[@Woodman-Spare-that-tree]

It’s was so obvious to anybody that the motivation was envy. She is a woman in her 20s with parents who allegedly infantilise her . Her colleagues are getting married and having babies. Letby feels she will never be able to have that happiness for herself. Giving her a job on the maternity ward was rubbing her nose in her own personal pain every day. Anybody would react like she did.

[@judithwilliams3147]

​@@Woodman-Spare-that-treeno. Killing babies is somewhat extreme.

[@HumanimalChannel]

​@@Woodman-Spare-that-treeI think sjeis a sadist

[@ToblerOwned619]

Hi Andrew, love all your videos, wondering if you could do a video on Richard Russell (AKA Skyking) I’m so interested to hear your thoughts on that situation. Thanks! Keep it up

[@dmvvideos7672]

amazing analysis and I agree envy is the worst thing and is the root of alot of evil

[@jono1457-qd9ft]

So when did she write these notes? After she was accused and arrested?

[@michaelaelizabethx]

the police found it when they searched her apartment after her arrest

[@JiannaRodriguez-relax]

On top of the attention she got after each incident, I also think the rage filled baby side of her acted out against the babies as jealous lashing out at the love of the parents. She was smitten with someone she couldn’t have and surrounded by happy couples and like a child taking and destroying the toy of another child they’re jealous of, she took and murdered the couples’ babies since she didn’t believe she would get married and have a family of her own. My theory

[@greemblomb]

Referring to the Commandments as "The top ten historical no-nos" made me lol

[@Bumsy727]

Good day to you! 🎉

[@Timo1o1]

Amazing breakdown as always. Only thing I would add is that with Elliott Rodger, it was more about the validation than the intimacy. Having a girlfriend/sex was a form of validation for his narcissism, and it seems that this is what he truly craved

[@hemlocklatte]

The four personalities that you talked about describes my mom to a T. Scary. I appreciate the insight greatly!

[@louwinters508]

Thankyou. I had thoughts myself that it was something like this. Jeckll and Hyde sprang to mind while reading these notes. 'I am evil. I did this. To 'I didn't do anything wrong.' It sounds like someone who's arguing with themselves about what they have done.

[@neilcampbell4931]

That was tough, I’m sure, but so helpful. Thank you for taking time to explain this difficult and tragic situation

[@marendameron]

Would you please consider reviewing Ruby Franke of 8 Passengers? It is shocking to me the trauma she has caused her children AND documented. Thanks for the amazing content you provide!

[@ttrinhity]

Yes, and her partner Jodi. This case has also disturbed me greatly. My mind can't help but keep wondering what happened and what makes these two women cause such horrible outcomes for children.

[@sheilajones4491]

Oh thank you for this insightful analysis, 👏👏id never heard of the borderline personality disorder splitting into defined character modes before. I am going to take a look now. This is so fascinating and sums up LL to a T. She loved her Disney movies(nothing wrong with that) i am retired PICU nurse and I love Disney movies i watch with my granddaughters or on my own lol. I am so sad for the suffering of those little ones and their parents snd lived ones. So much damage done to nurses and medics who work in this field and the dhocking disregard and lavk of respect by management to the whistleblowers. Heartbreaking 💔RIP

[@Ava22159]

Yes the fault lies with lack of concern by the people who had the control. I suspect they may have had concerns about having to shut the unit.

[@DocB1979]

C peptide is useful in distinguishing between hypoinsulinemia in DMI and insulin insensitivity in DMII.

[@elaineproctor9415]

You manage to explain the inexplicable and solve the why to so many of these cases. Thank you!

[@joshb7326]

Have you considered the possibility that she intentionally wrote these notes to find and that they might not be genui ne feelings

[@Scary_asmr101]

Another excellent video albeit a very sad subject

[@LanaFontaine]

@AndPsych Can you do psych/personality review of the Beales of Grey Gardens? how do ppl become recluses? is there anything from what is known about them that can point to any risk factors of becoming antisocial & in denial?

[@ah-sh9dw]

16:32 theyre called incels because thats what they call themsleves. Personally, i dont think it has much to do with a lack of intimacy. Incels are often no more isolated than anyone else and if it was just human connection they were after, they wouldnt purely be so concerned about women looking a certain way I think being an incel is a combination of entitlement, and of projecting ones insecurities. It's treating women as a status symbol and thinking that the attention of an attractive woman is the only way to prop up their non-existent self esteem

[@rosesweetcharlotte]

I dont know if you can see this, but can you do a video about the 8 Passengers fiasco?

[@rainydayjane8257]

Dr Andrew, you are spoiling us….thank you for your frequent postings as of late!! 🥰🙏

[@Kristen_Brooke]

I’m so glad you covered this! I saw this case on another channel but they just breezed over the letter & case without any real discussion on it. Thank you for another informative deep dive! Love it! ❤

[@rocktheboat9372]

Great channel.

[@날Gnarleigh리]

Your analogy on incel is spot on and points problem to right direction. I believe we as society should not reduce their suffering to mere sexual frustration. Those young men are lost and aimless, and craves genuine connection than simple intercourse. And connection is something hard to gain nowadays especially in dating market.

[@ginahamlyn2569]

This was very interesting and informative. I really appreciate these videos Dr v.d. Vaart. please keep them coming.

[@esky203]

I’d be interested to hear more of your thoughts on envy, maybe even a response or reaction to Contrapoints’ video on envy?

[@bonniehay]

I wonder if it might be possible that part of her motive was anger at her affair partner's children. He may have told her that he wanted to be with her except for his children. It's a classic excuse to keep an affair going without obligations. She may have resented his children but instead took her frustrations out on the babies close at hand.

[@saiedahussain2873]

Your probably right because it could be just that because alot of people are over analysing her. She was a jealous resentful bitch and took out on those poor babies.

[@Victoria-iu5sb]

I don't think so, she'd already attacked at least 7 children, including murdering 4, before he'd even joined the hospital. They only became friends in June 2016 so any motive related to her married boyfriend is only applicable for the last four babies in the trial (babies, N, O, P, and Q)

[@bonniehay]

@@Victoria-iu5sb Thanks, I didn't know that. I was trying somehow to make sense of it, I guess. But how could anyone make sense of any of this? It's so sickening.

[@JayCee-hw4zc]

Brilliant analysis Andrew. The best, most comprehensive so far. I came to a similar conclusion (not as eloquent as yours) via D.I.D and her birth trauma that many gloss over. If it wasn't such an horrific case it would be interesting to compare notes. However, this is neither the appropriate thing to do, nor the appropriate platform. Thanks for your clear work. I look forward to others in the future.

[@krisgarner4451]

I married my husband when his daughter was 12. She was pure evil to me…only behind his back. To him, she was gentle as a lamb. It was truly scary to be around her. His youngest daughter was 9. She saw all of the machinations behind the scenes. Hubby wouldn’t believe it. We almost divorced many times. At 16, this girl was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I wasn’t shocked. Her Dad was. We’ve been married for 15 years and at 27, she still hates me and she is still trying to get me out. And she lives 3 hrs away with a boyfriend. She still scares me.

[@EveryTimeV2]

"Highly statistically significant". The jury was given botched statistics to come to their conclusions, police charts that included deaths when Letby was around didn't include 6 omitted deaths, further, other statisticians have came out and said that it was fallacious to say they were significant. John O’Quigley, a professor of statistical science at University College London, said: “People get the wrong end of the stick with statistics. In my opinion there was nothing out of the ordinary statistically in the spike in deaths, and all the shift chart shows is that when Letby was on duty, Letby was on duty.” - Guardian.

[@ArchitectingHappiness]

When the police came to her door - I’m no expert but I think the trauma came from not as much having to see or confront her shadow self. As much as the shame and horror at being exposed to the world. That her carefully crafted facade was destroyed, and her pretend doctor boyfriend and her colleagues and everyone that mattered to her - would now see the ugly truth she hid all her life. It’s public shame that kept her away from the courtroom for her sentencing also. The most important thing was that people saw her as she wanted to be seen. As a superior figure. Ultimate professional. Brilliant. Competent. Her one key goal was to be admired. She was desperate for that validation and attention. Anything that conflicted with that goal would create trauma for her That’s how I see it 🌿 Thanks for your great breakdown and analysis….

[@artfan3118]

Interesting analysis.

[@leighanne3266]

The note indicates she's been interviewed about the neonatal deaths and is aware of the suspicion. Knowing that, could the statement "I'll never have children", etc be the written realization that if/when she goes to jail, there won't be the opportunity to have children?

[@evelynrobinson5810]

I've wondered also if deep down, being childless and unmarried is what she really wanted. Killing babies is in another zone altogether.

[@f.j282]

It would be great if you could give us the background of their childhood and the families environments of these people and how they were raised and by whom and why they became criminals that you choose to talk about because that would definitely be the roots of all problems except biological ones. The childhood specially the first 6-7 years old as you know is very important. Thank you From Canada

[@ruairihipkin4156]

Just a point - the Crown (the prosecution in England) have asked for a retrial on 6 counts that the jury were unable to reach a verdict on

[@hivemindconcussion2173]

Lucky for the wife and children of Lucy’s boyfriend they weren’t the objects of Lucy’s attention. This is yet another addition to that cautionary tale for all those cheating spouses. “The grass on the other side isn’t as green as you might be lead to believe.” 😳

[@ragingbull827]

She also wrote "I haven't done anything wrong." People seem to miss this.

[@Woodman-Spare-that-tree]

Self comforting

[@ragingbull827]

@@Woodman-Spare-that-tree Na, I don't buy that. All the evidence is circumstantial. How do we not know that it wasn't a cluster of enterovirus or something like that?

[@elizabethwoolnough4358]

​@@ragingbull827and the stab wound to the throat of one of the babies? A sharp instrument like a scalpel was put inside his mouth and used to stab his throat.

[@ragingbull827]

@@elizabethwoolnough4358 she was charged with 22 counts, found guilty on 14. The jury was not 100% convinced. To me that is reasonable doubt and at least needs a retrial.

[@marcushaysom4059]

One of the most interesting analysis I’ve seen regarding this case. Very insightful observations