HOW TIME FUNCTIONS IN 40K - THE EMPEROR, THE OLD ONES, NECRON | Warhammer 40,000 Lore/Speculation

[@Luetin09]

We return to the confusing subject of time and foresight in 40K - If you enjoyed please as always hit the LIKE - this subject was one that just came to mind while I was reviewing some musings. Let me know your thoughts about time - the old ones and future vision in 40K

[@bigdaddy_bo6741]

Professor Lutes, here to drop that sicc time lecture when we weren't lookin!

[@DarkoSiljanoski]

IF I enjoy it? Dude, thumbs up does not even make justice. I am hitting it right as the video starts.

[@i0wny0upl20]

I was thinking that a 'Where are they now' version for places in Imperium after the Horus Heresy would be quite fun? What happened to Istavan, Molech, Beta-Garmon after the last traitor ran away? If you were to roughly sum it up, what and how much was lost during the Heresy (material, intellectual, spiritual)

[@Raygun9000]

The spans of time the old ones experienced would easily be enough to travel to other galaxies (perhaps even more so when they were nearer). Could the old ones have travelled to other galaxies, or even originated far beyond the galactic border? (Did they create the Tyranids? 😉)

[@TheEldritchGod]

Of course, the problem is that the real world appears to be pixelated, so without smooth space-time, time, as most people see it, does not exist. It is most likely that time is more of a rate of change, rather than a "dimension" you travel through. So anything 40k makes up is pure fiction to begin with.

[@BeigeFrequency]

I always enjoy the way Luetin treats the history of this verse like it's a real history and he's an anthropologist comparing pieces of existing lore and using it to speculate on what we don't actually know, but might be possible.

[@SuperSoundtracksEX]

I love your videos, man. I don’t even particularly care about MMA, but I still listen anyway because you talk about it in a way that shows you care about it. I think that’s really a draw, that it’s something you enjoy. Never give that up. Also enjoy the 40k.

[@keashaneverts4452]

​@@SuperSoundtracksEX9ò⁹00p0p

[@TinaGoetz-x7j]

he is quite professional sounding. I wonder why GW hasn't snapped him up

[@Applebees42069]

How are you into everything I’m into bro?

[@OxBlitzkriegxO]

I hope they don't, they'll ruin him.

[@phoenix_03e]

Luetin the lore goat, once again confirming his position at the pinnacle of lore with this topic

[@yopops6632]

Calling Luetin a "pinnacle" is a huge understatement my brother

[@stardestroyer19]

​@@yopops6632No one gets 40k quite like luetin, and after having read close 100 different BL novels, I can certainly say this also includes BL writers.

[@phoenix_03e]

@@yopops6632 I mean idk how you can be better than the greatest of all time

[@Slapdab]

King of the hill of 40k fluff

[@LordMuffinToken]

🐐Goat

[@raulbuta5125]

I always imagine the writers at GW furiously taking notes, every time Luetin uploads a new video like this

[@oxiras8898]

Yes, but I think they're taking notes thinking "Hey! Lets make more condraticting/convoluted lore and see if he can solve it!"

[@ThatGuyUpThere]

@@oxiras8898 Luetin: *proceeds to make a series of pure rant, ramble and tangents*

[@BlackMoonHowls]

@@ThatGuyUpThereAlso GW, make rights to stuff restricted so you can't make a YT Orktober D&D video through Roll 20 or whatever. This is Corpo thinking.

[@BlackMoonHowls]

@@oxiras8898 That's more like Slaanesh thinking.

[@TookieMacSpookie]

😂😂😂

[@Khalith]

According to the Angron Red Angel book, the grey knights have an accurate calendar they keep to themselves.

[@1985slipstream]

You can ask the Grey Knights the time and they will tell you it... then kill you.

[@TheGallantDrake]

I mean that’s what I would say if I was a Grey Knight.

[@MichaSennin]

Is there any wider reason why the exact date is kept hidden?

[@skeyedrake5929]

​@@MichaSennin Tokeep the apocalyptic power of the Calendar man from gaining influence

[@JC-zx5li]

So Grey Knights are never late, you just dont know the correct time?

[@Kxre_]

I’m so used to binging Luetin’s lore content to the point that I didn’t even realize this was a recent video

[@andresmith1317]

In Orikan’s case I feel like time travel works like a set of railroad lines with certain events acting as transfer junctions to different possible futures

[@Hurricayne92]

Yea i see it similarly that Orikan can set up a sort of Temporal checkpoint he can reload to

[@WolframHeart-xp2px]

Was Orikan the one brought before a trial for stealing something from Trazyn, only to keep rewinding time until he got the result he wanted? Plus there is time travel in 40k. One example is an inquisitir from Ordo Chronos going back in time to warn his mentor about said mentors future disappearance only to ser up in motion hid on temporal paradox. There is that ship with the A.I. that got caught in a warp storm got sent into the future saw it was horrible, went back through time to warn mankind but ended up still in the future just not as far, had the crew killed off, was boarded by space marines and tech priest, went angry and decided to kill them all

[@bizbe4465]

​@@WolframHeart-xp2pxYes that was Orikan. He kept tampering with the timeline eventually everyone at the meeting realized something was off. Orikan AND trazyn ended up being punished for their stupid dispute that destroyed necron artifacts.

[@seagullman87]

​@@bizbe4465Only in one of the first go-arounds of the time-loop though. Orikan was so confident that he could expose Trazyn for letting an entire dynasty die, he didn't realize that revealing that he was aware of the event ahead of time also made him culpable. Orikan was so shocked when Trazyn made that point his jaw mechanism physically stalled. Pretty sure that happened in the original timeline before he first went back in time, given how confident Orikan was and how shocked he was when his plan backfired so spectacularly.

[@Mazzy9955]

I think another relevant example you may have been able to talk about in your section regarding foresight and the concept of trying to "pick the best future" is one from The Crimson King in the Heresy Series. There was a scene where Ahriman attempted to save one of his brothers on the Planet of the Sorcerers from the flesh-change. He combined his Corvidae powers with the Pavoni powers of Hathor Maat to seemingly "outpace" the flesh-change. Ahriman linked his mind with Maat to basically direct him to re-mold the Thousand Son's genetic material into the most "favorable configuration" as a means to avoid the horrible mutant he would inevitably become. The scene (I only have the audiobook, not the text) describes Ahriman very rapidly weaving through an almost web of potential genetic futures and trying to go from one future "node" to the next while at the same time guiding Maat as he reshapes the suffering Space Marine's genome, keeping the flesh-change at bay. What is interesting is the outcome, which was that they seemed to have succeeded because after a while, the flesh change abated and everything was calm only to everyone's horror when moments later, the Thousand Son on the slab suddenly detonates in a welter of psychic energy and gore. Ahriman had absolutely no explanation for what happened and everyone remained stunned. He was so sure he picked the correct future genetic configuration for his fallen brother despite his and Maat's best efforts. My interpretation is that maybe, the future is somehow set for some individuals in a more "grand scheme of things" type of way. It was as if time itself reacted to Ahriman trying to save his brother from the flesh-change by just saying "F you, your brother goes boom now." I guess you could also argue that was an inevitable consequence of someone trying to find a loophole in the demon curse put on Magnus's legion all those year ago when he struck that bargain. Let me know if I totally butchered that, I'm relatively close to finishing the Heresy books before I move onto the Siege of Terra and The Crimson King is still relatively fresh in my mind.

[@karituurihalme1007]

To me the biggest question about the Old Ones is this: If they did know that not helping necrontier would help shatter the C'tan, did they know it would doom themselves as a race as well? And if they did know, did they choose to do it anyway. To me it would make sense as you pointed out they did value life above anything else as their creations did survive.

[@beufis6979]

I was thinking to myself maybe they did this because the Necron are a hard counter to the Tyranids. The Tyranids being a big threat to all life in the cosmos and the old ones could never stop them. But they saw a timeline where the Necron did.

[@l7leung]

Parents will sacrifice themselves for their children. As would the old ones.

[@MLaak86]

I think that has to tie back to the larger question of if free will actually exists in this setting even if foresight does.

[@karituurihalme1007]

@@beufis6979 That would also assume the Old Ones knew or saw that the Tyranids exist at all. Would be interesting to know how that happened.

[@MLaak86]

@@karituurihalme1007 Indeed, although I think the Tyranids simply 'just being' works for them better - "nothing is scarier" (than what the audience can imagine) after all.

[@SoCalChris]

I've watched for years and it's really something when other lore tubers will never even remotely try to discredit you, like some do to others (OMS deserves their wiki reading criticism).. Like the godfather of 40k lore.. Keep up the great (and I do mean GREAT) Lore vids!

[@Jadfisk]

If they come at the King, they better come swingin’

[@chrisstorrer]

I've never heard word said against him, either, which is good because he is unassailable.

[@samuelgerhardt8706]

Who is OMS? IHUA

[@panzerfury6579]

​@@samuelgerhardt8706One Mind Syndicate, low effort channel that reads wiki/1d4chan articles

[@SoCalChris]

@@chrisstorrer agreed..100%

[@Scottoest]

I'd love to see a video from you talking about the revelations of the End and the Death books, and how it recontextualizes and adds to our previous understanding of the events at the end of the Heresy, and especially all of the "Dark King" stuff.

[@kelep1992]

Honestly working out lore like this and explaining it, is a gift. I cant even explain the most basic 40k things to my friends. Thanks Luetin.

[@EvLch3dd4r]

I've rewatched your Origins videos, your Emperor videos, and your Chronostrife video like 4x each. I am super excited to get through this one! Thank you, Loremaster.

[@DarkoSiljanoski]

OMG, The Dark Origins is my favorite series you ever made so far. Especially the part about time and perception, I never thought I'd be seeing a video titled HOW TIME FUNCTIONS since that series. Thank you Luetin09, the all mighty Lore God.

[@Krillon]

Lore for the Lore God!)

[@psychotripnerdstuff]

I think the Eldar gods are more straightforward than we think. They're a psychic reflection of Aeldari society expressed through ancient myth. I think the legends definitely combine memories of the Old Ones, ancient psychic weapons, and even powerful, pre-fall Eldar. But I, ultimately, believe that the gods are just products of the Eldar psyche manifesting in the warp before being consumed by Slaanesh.

[@SolB808]

As an Astrophysics graduate, you videos are really insightful. And I don't just mean the Science stuff, I often realize things from my personal life just listening. Or maybe it is just me reading too much into things. Either way always worth more than a single listen

[@Sidorak001]

Luetin covering Malcador the Sigilite/Hero in a video is a possible future I have forseen, it is merely a matter of how many times I have to ask in order to have it come to pass.

[@RageAgainstTheDyingOfTheLight7]

Its Malcador The Hero only not sigilite

[@Sidorak001]

@@RageAgainstTheDyingOfTheLight7 I stand corrected :D

[@blunk42]

Luetin love this video, frankly, i love them all. I would love to get as an in-depth video about all the Necrons lore through to "today" as can be managed. 45hr video, great! Thank you!

[@onewithsin]

This was such a great dissection i had to watch it twice in a row to make sure I didn't miss anything. The idea that foresight is just a [ possibly ] slightly higher probability guess, a story that can influence actions, and not certainties or truths is a funny revelation.

[@stixgrim8064]

Yeah, this was about time. With the hivefleets fast approaching, one wants to make the best of it while one can! Cheers man

[@tessikthegrand]

These are my favorite type of video you produce. The ones that get me thinking. Always look forward to anything with a more philosophical bent. Thank you!

[@darkzerxx]

Time in 40k is like how the Doctor explains it, "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a nonlinear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff."

[@t.j.webster5545]

That one got away from you, didn't it?

[@edmundthespiffing2920]

The best explanation, honestly

[@10thCompanyCaptain]

Loving this exploration of time in 40k, and how you bring other canons in and talk about it there.

[@jon5620]

THE TICKING. My favourite intro. It's a device so heavy with meaning in 40K -- and Luetin videos

[@halfcrafted]

As unattractive as it may seem compared to other elements of Warhammer lore, I think understanding time and how the factions interact with it is a crucial element to understanding how the greater story of Warhammer HH and 40k has played out. Thanks for making this video Luetin as I think it summarises that really well!

[@Streken7]

This video about time is going to severely impact my bedtime. Just as Gork and Mork decided, when they were fighting over whether it was time for violence or thumping time at the dawn of the galaxy,

[@sambirch5153]

Gork: time for violence Mork: violence to time

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@sambirch5153bruh you could've said "violence time" And it would've worked

[@SpaceDruid123]

"How does time function in 40k?" "That's the neat part! It doesn't!"

[@austinhoff66]

You’ve given me so many new considerations after this video. Such a treat to listen to it in its entirety, always a pleasure to be here.

[@MaxYoung-Maxinfet]

You should do a speculation video on various people the Emperor might have been throughout history since you can cover them in groups of various confidence levels. The one I really like to think he was but there is no proof is Ramses II, who battled the sea people. I like the idea of the Emperor during the Heresy thinking to himself "not again" as the 30k version of the sea people descend on Terra.

[@guypierson5754]

You should probably read up on what the sea peoples were.

[@craigstobbs9215]

​@@guypierson5754agreed. Far more to them than people.think. Not the ancient "vikings" they have been portrayed to be in the past.

[@CurrieG16]

Love to see yet more speculation about the old ones and necrontyr, that mystery is what helped pull me in to the 40k verse initially

[@kingkrumbs2304]

SUGGESTION. Saw a topic in a KZbin short I was interested in: The Cacodominus As someone who gets all my 40k lore from this channel in car rides to and from work…it would be interesting to learn about this creature of great power. THANK YOU!

[@TrivialTax]

Nice one. Time is awesome concept. I like how there is an idea/speculation, that before big bang there was only four dimentions of space, and suddenly after big bang we have three dimentions plus time. Which would indicate time is just a coordinate on a four dimentional map.

[@quirinaled2752]

Superb work - always interesting when you discuss time and perceived reality.

[@batrider2985]

Damn good video! The blending of logic, philosophy, and science fiction made for such a compelling piece. Great work, and I look forward to seeing more soon.

[@raverbane395]

Having watched your previous Warp vids. This vid has been a long time coming...

[@illillliiliiilililililiili5630]

very excited for rogue trader soon, thanks for keeping me company during the run up

[@TehPwnerer107]

Luetin the loremaster, beloved by all

[@kristjanmartin9883]

Thank goodness, KZbin has been so dry lately. Glad to have some new content from the lore master!

[@free2chasehappy]

Lord Luetin has once again bless us with a lore worthy to be labeled as a documentary. Thank you sir!

[@rebelcybran5850]

These videos of Luetin are good to listen when trying to sleep its like hearing a story.

[@dantefortheparty]

I can never get enough 40k lore. If im not listening to 40k audiobook im listining to Luetin. Always a fascinating video.

[@sillymonger]

I was sad when he said no 1 hour tangent... but then relieved when he immediately was like well actually there will be. Its why we're all here mate, love it. Thanks again for another amazing video

[@kealydan]

Probably talking into the darkness with this one 9 days later but I've gotten my second paint ultraboiz box with brush and paints this week thanks to you big LT, praise the Emperor

[@paulgrant7221]

Great vid. Extra kudos for getting Primer in there! I *love* the bootstrap paradox. The concept of knowledge/art having no progenitor/creator in those loops really bakes my noodle!

[@furiousfinch1587]

Here's mine. The Old Ones could foresee the Necrontyr getting mad at them, could foresee the C'tan getting uppity, and the Old Ones could raw psyker them both back onto the ground. They foresaw the Necrontyr, in their rage, "destroying themselves", and thought to let them do it not out of spite, but for the sake of letting the Necrontyr decide their own fate as free beings, no matter how foolish they ended up being. Problem is? "Destroying themselves" was just that the Old Ones couldn't foresee their fates anymore. _They had none, as at that point in time they would become the Necrons, something the Old Ones could not see._ This surprised the Old Ones and left them confused, blind and terrified when _something began killing them, something they couldn't divine the sight of._

[@cosmictreason2242]

No lore basis afaik but that's actually an interesting mechanism that really contributes something to the discussion

[@chrisw7047]

Good point. Their foresight is entirely based on the Warp. Something that has no soul is not present in the Warp, so they cannot perceive it.

[@nolan8708]

Two videos in a week ? You're spoiling us ! Keep up the good work. ^^

[@alphaf1se]

Just finished watching this video and recently finished listening to the infinite and the divine audiobook about the necron. Great video @luetin

[@yashbelekar5763]

Loremaster, great video! Don't forget Conrad Curze , he too can see future ( or multiple ones). Sanguinious's and Conrad's difference in their reactions after seeing possible futures is also interesting

[@ShockArcl1te]

I recently pondered the grandfather paradox. I think it's an faulty model. If determinism is real then going back to change anything is destined for failure, or already part of past events. But if free will exists and time is changeable, that too relies on a kind of determinism. You're relying on changing an event in the past to create a different future, but that presupposes that you have set in motion an unchangeable new series of events. You're saying you've created a new script, but that's just determinism again, and if that determinism is in effect then it doesn't make sense that the original timeline was changeable at all. Even if you have a time machine, it can't be that your choices are somehow more capable of changing things than any random person elsewhere without a time machine. Both are capable of changing the future. If you change the past, that's just another way of manipulating the future as it would have been for anyone else in the same moment in time. So either you can go back and kill your grandfather because everything is malleable and there is no fate so no casual reverberation which will remove you from existence, or time is set and it isn't possible to kill your grandfather because it already didn't happen. This rambling was my way of feeding the algorithm.

[@cosmictreason2242]

IRL time travel isn't possible. But if it were, there would be no paradoxes for the same reason that starting an earlier save doesn't change the past of the current save, or its future. You can't go back to the same past that will join the present save. You can only go back to an instance in the past which then immediately generates a new timeline. You can likewise return to the instant you left the first timeline, or afterwards. Return earlier and you do not return to the same timeline, you create a new one, albeit arbitrarily similar, so you as the traveler wouldn't notice. Time travel in the same timeline as IMPLIED BY THE WRITERS of Back to the Future, Harry Potter 3, Terminator etc is not possible, though these movies can be reimagined as branching timeline multiverse time travel scenarios. Personally i think you can interpret the Terminator series up through Genesys as concerning at least 6 different timelines, each being created by the incursions of the last time travel by the previous "future." The question comes naturally, how come the Reese incursions occur in the same timeline? Again, they're occurring in the future of the prior incursion, not the past, so they can be on the same timeline. If Reese went back after the Terminator but went to an earlier point, then you have created two timelines, one where the terminator kills sara Connor and one where reese kills the terminator. For that matter, even the original context can be seen that way. The terminator going back creates a new timeline. Reese going back to a Future point in that timeline creates yet another timeline. The first one is already doomed, with the terminator doing his thing without reese's interference. Total number of timelines: 3, number of incursions +1 (the original)

[@matiashamalainen7965]

If time traveling was possible any future that would find a way to do it would erase itself from existence.

[@SlightlyOddGuy]

What I think is so funny about these lore videos is that, to my eyes, they share remarkable similarity to the harmonization techniques and textual negotiation that goes on in religious discussions. A+++ experience

[@johnjohn5187]

So... the *time* has finally come. Luetin09 dedicating a video to time in 40k in earnest. Needless to say I'm eager to watch.

[@archaelusthorne5228]

@Luetin09 Thank you for your dedication to these videos, truly honoured to sit in a listen to your "ramblings". Very thought provoking. I have a suggestion for another vid like this, musings as you will? Perhaps you could entertain us with your thoughts on what the Greatest Threats to the 40k verse are? The potential alliances that could be made to overcome each threat? And perhaps what the possible futures that could be built from these victories.. or failures? Like a top 10 "What If.." scenarios but with your eloquence and penchant for details :)

[@nateinky01]

Luetin deserves a knighthood for his work.

[@welshy114]

I don't know if I have the mental fortitude for another luetin lore video on time...😰

[@JamesWalker-gj2wc]

Gonna solve this mystery once and for all. The Old Ones were Necrontier that already won their war with the Tyranids, Eldar, mankind, etc. and Choas withered away into the warp due to having no avatars, The Old Ones recreated all the species they wiped from existence after realizing their return to nonmetalic life had no meaning. They placed their clones on a world with similar atmosphere as their homeworld and when the clones were unable to successfully survive under their harsh environment the war in heaven began anew. Time travel is all their is and it's circular, it will always repeat itself

[@enriquehirshfeltikov2395]

Lutein needs to be immortalized in the 40k universe. I say, let's make him a human historian so profound Trazyn takes him in as an apprentice.

[@stevevincent1881]

Or, you know, just adds him to his collection.

[@enriquehirshfeltikov2395]

@@stevevincent1881 ;-) I'm pretty sure how the ancient texts from Terra start the 40k universe... "And then this robot skeleton showed up and kidnapped KZbinr Lutein."

[@Hurricayne92]

@@stevevincent1881 If i remember correctly these 2 things aren't always mutually exclusive as doesn't Trayzn have an Ad Mech member that he will on occasion he will take out and converse with?

[@ovan2190]

One of the things I've liked about how time travel works is the idea that there are fixed points in time. Like between A and C B always exists and can't be changed however A and C are able to be effected so for example The Old Ones and the Necrons meeting could have gone many different ways but The war in heaven would always happen the outcome though would be diffrent like the Old Ones surviving, or the C'tan not being destroyed etc. Very interesting video

[@jrr7031]

Huh.....makes sense. Kinda like what WE know, but the characters dont know in the Terminator universe! Skynet rises and Judgement day always happens....*But* John connor being born, sarah connor surviving judgment day, creation of the chronoplast and the win or loss of the war is what was always in "flux".

[@Graotron]

Damn one of my top ten episodes. @Luetin09 good work

[@Azubrael]

Thanks Luetin for recommending Primer. I had seen you mention this movie before in one of your videos and then I watched the movie.

[@MahraiZiller]

Part of the sleep club. Watch the videos awake as well, but your cadence and the stories make sleep come and interesting dreams. Love the lore and love your take on it and your deep dives.

[@howardhavardramberg333]

Woah. This video is HUGE! A hallmark of Lore.

[@gamewatch6861]

You haven’t watched many of his videos have you? This is on the shorter side.

[@TheBassmanCharlie]

Praise the Omnissiah! Just in time for unwinding my cogitators after a particularly reverent day at the manufactorum. And a topic that stirs fervent zealotism as well! Emperor protects, Luetin provides o7

[@1985slipstream]

You just released a huge video not long ago and now this. What A machine. Infact i went back to rewatch the chrono video from the link suggested in Part 2 of the marines. Now i'm "behind time"

[@dannyKurt]

Da ja vu movie did time pretty well too. As it had a alternate timeline, but you could change the past timeline to overlap the newer timeline.

[@Schreibtiscification]

My head spins after this thought experiment and I love every second of it.

[@hellwaker153]

Would love to a very indepth drive into Typhus, Im really interested in his entire story/lore. Been watching your videos for more than a year. Thanks for the uploads

[@L33TThor]

I'm a simple man. I see a new vid from Luetin, I watch the whole thing and hit like to feed the algo

[@connormcreynolds9764]

I feel like Luetin only does timeline vids when he's off his meds. And I love it.

[@jadefalcon001]

A day with the great loremaster is a good day.

[@kangaroocaliphate1577]

Surprised this didn't show up on my feed.

[@DktrJ]

I do enjoy philosophical lore discussions, even tho I play zero 40k, I find the ability for tremendous thought experiments captivating.

[@justskip4595]

I would like to see a video of Perturabo. Hearing what Luetin thinks of the bitter Lord of Iron and his deeds would be interesting.

[@kwahn106]

AH YES, THE ALMIGHTY INCEL

[@nemanjalackovic2288]

2 videos in a spam of a week? The lore emperor has blessed us!

[@Trumanlol86]

Best Luetin video in a long time. Absolutely love this stuff.

[@SirSpycrab]

You produce content that is always top notch, you’re the only guy Ill drop whatever I’m doing to watch whenever I see your notification

[@MSP106]

Goodnight gang!

[@Marconius6]

Initially my thought was that predicting the future is all just probability, that the Necron or powerful psychics could just see the current configuration of reality very precisely, and calculate predictions (configurations) from that. This would explain why events that are closer are easier to predict: there's much less wiggle room for things to change and move around. If someone is standing in front of you right now, there's pretty much no chance they'll be on the other side of the planet in the next 10 minutes. But the fact Orikan predicted the rise of humanity from (I assume) 65 millions years back kind of throws that explanation out the window: that is such a long time that all possibilities would be miniscule, there's just no way anyone could say with any level of certainty if a species would even evolve, much less rise to become a galactic power. So that tells me there is SOMETHING about the future that is already there; it's not all probability, there is actually a way to look ahead at things that will happen, even if the picture is fuzzy. But then again, some visions of the future just don't come true? So it's not even like it's just a blurry picture, some of it is just false... but then how can one see it, how can you see something that's not there? Maybe it is a "timelines" kind of explanation, where all these strands of the future do exist, simultaneously, and as the present marches forward, only one thread is chosen in each moment, the other discarded; those looking into the future can see all the threads though, some perhaps more prominent than others, but still multiple. This would mean that at least SOME of the future is predetermined though, which also means free will is at least somewhat limited. So maybe the Old Ones or the Emperor or Sanguinius just didn't have any better choices, they picked from a limited set of options the least bad one they could find.

[@Luetin09]

This sort of thought process is why I keep coming back to this subject again and again, its really interesting to consider how this stuff works

[@Marconius6]

@@Luetin09 Yeah, I don't think there's a simple answer, but it's fun to think about, or see how various stories in the lore handle it!

[@reallybig4868]

Be proud of your dark origins vids. They got me into 40k lore

[@MrDeathMachine]

I imagine Luetin researching for these videos to be like that scene in the Fellowship of the Ring when Gandalf is pouring over scrolls about the finding of the Ring of Power

[@maverickslastoddworld6476]

Thanks Luetin for teaching me about such a rich lore and getting me though work!

[@spudjiii]

Great video, Always enjoy these and often repeat listen to really take in, muse upon and digest the sentiments suggested my initial thoughts on the fundamental question though: Given the idea of foresight being somewhat unclear, and clarifying the closer one gets to that future becoming present, and sanguinius's talk of "possibility's reduced to one", perhaps the old ones saw, instead of "we do this x happens", instead two sets of possibilities, and the set that resulted from giving the necrontyr knowledge contained either: a) one or a number of entirely unacceptable outcomes that must be avoided at all costs, b) an overall "sum" desirability (or average desirability between all possibilities if you prefer to think of it like that) that was inferior to the set where necrons were denied, or perhaps a higher number of "unacceptable" outcomes than the set resultant from denial. For instance, perhaps the Old One's (OOs) forsight suggested that if we deny the necrons there are 15% of possible senarios that involve extinction of OOs, and if we allow them knowledge then that increases to 25%, then they were simplying "playing the numbers", rather than making mistakes, as it were. Perhaps they were all too aware of the imperfections of foresight and this was the solution they came up with, basically feeding all their forsighted information into some sort of risk matrix, including the percieved liklihood of each time-strand into their calculations etc

[@Palemagpie]

*Old ones* "all life is sacred and beautiful" *Necrontier* "hi" *Old ones* "Jesus, except you. You.... you're wrong"

[@leodhasw-s3739]

Watching at 1am, yeah my head definitely won't start hurting with all this timey-wimey stuff

[@josephnowak6802]

Not gonna lie this is the most fire Channel to fall asleep to

[@Mazzy9955]

Oh that’s convenient. Literally just finished refreshing myself on the Dark Origins videos and L-Daddy drops this for me ❤

[@cormacphillips2585]

Dude as always you bend your mind into the ideas of 40K lore that us mere mortals font even consider. You ROCK! 🤘🤘🤘🤘

[@riccardoforti2765]

Man what a video ! Thank you - these make us appreciate 40k ever more

[@lancepage1914]

Nameless here for evermore.

[@varundattoo9512]

Lore spiel definitely appreciated. Tangents on the other hand, truly get me excited.

[@khashayarr]

Your interpretation of the emperor somewhat reminds of "prescience" in Dune. It's not like you can see the future, it's just that you can guess it with a high enough degree of certainty that it feels like magic to everyone else. It's like this: if I choose not to drink and stay up till 4am tonight, I can have additional certainty that tomorrow will be a good day. Not because I can see tomorrow, but because I know that a lazy hangover day is less likely to be a good day, which is more likely to occur if I drink and stay up late.

[@ericjensen7580]

This brought me back to my philosophy of time and space courses, A series vs B series and the theologies of eternity. Imagine Tzeentch, experiencing every single moment of time all in a single instant which lasts forever.

[@johnd228]

@luetin09 I would love to hear a video where you attempt to tackle the mystery behind the Alpha Legion objectives, and how that relates to their Primarchs objectives

[@matiashamalainen7965]

The power of foresight paired with the logistics network of the webway would wield such an incredible power that I find it nigh impossible for the old ones to lose.

[@jemaliazmar9185]

Luetin the GOAT. Appoint this man as Head Archivist of the Officio Administratum already

[@amanisalone]

Haven’t watched it yet, but going to go ahead and say it’s the best 40k lore video ever made

[@michaeltrivette1728]

I click like on Luetins videos before I watch them. because I KNOW they are good.

[@conormcgregorwasnevermyfri1984]

Whenever a long drive appears, Luetin is here!

[@randomgamingguy3034]

How time functions in .... Yeah I'm not ready for this tonight yet.

[@simeonadonai]

Oh how I wish that you could do this full time. Having a few of these videos a week would be “life on a stick” as we say in Sweden. Thanks

[@cosmictreason2242]

What's the original saying? The translation is strange

[@jamesmayes4351]

I have always thought of the Tyranids as the Old Ones final weapon to cleanse the galaxy from their failures.

[@cosmictreason2242]

The distance they come from doesn't make sense of that. Their different approach vectors makes it seem like they're a wave crossing the entire Local Group, originating in another supercluster.

[@junioradult6219]

Didnt they come from outside the galaxy?

[@JackHGUK]

​@@junioradult6219yes.

[@kaimamoonfury1335]

There are extant devices today which can accurately predict decisions you make before you know youll make them. Its been really fascinating to me to see this conversation around prophecy and causation to become more mainstream. Ive read that if you travel backwards, that choice in itself will put you in a different timeline entirely, and with phenomena such as spacetime bending black holes, whos to say that the act of traveling in time itself wouldn't also be predetermined in some way. The article wasnt stating fact, but postulating that paradoxes may not even be possible, because traveling through time itself is an event in time, if that makes sense.

[@cosmictreason2242]

Agree. If you could travel, each incursion would make a new timeline. It works in reality be multiverse hopping. But IRL time travel is utterly impossible because time isn't a physical medium, it's just a succession of states, and reorganizing the universe into a prior state would require practically infinite energy and no known mechanism

[@9cobil299]

I appreciate you very much, Luetin. Thank you for this!