Luigi Mangione: activist or terrorist?

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Video edited by myself :)

[@lucaskane5364]

"When the rich steal from the poor, they call it 'business', when the poor fight back, they call it 'violence'" - Mark Twain

[@Noorieke]

❤😢

[@pierce2001]

luigi ironically was from a rich upper class family

[@Helehache]

@@pierce2001 That's true, but I doubt all the cheering comes from people in that position. However, he wasn't protected for the Healthcare system and US just voted a guy with some allies that want to end Medicare.

[@ArturBriones]

Sorry to be a wet blanket but it was killing me so I had to look up the quote and it is misattributed to Mark Twain, they never said that. It's origin seems to be a DeviantArt post according to Wikipedia and that doesn't need to be a bad thing! A good sentence doesn't need to be said by a famous person to be good.

[@stupedcraig]

@@ArturBriones "You can't believe everything you read on the Internet" - Mark Twain

[@TheDoubleBee]

The fact that this act got a reaction it did, and the fact that people are now acutely aware they are not alone in having the same reaction, is, in my opinion, one of the biggest class consciousness eye openers the US has had in decades.

[@Helehache]

The result will be visible when Americans stop distinguish Welfare from "assistance to the poor". They don't even have to abolish capitalism entirely. This is already a thing in European Social Democracies.

[@selalewis9189]

The support for Occupy protests has happened in the past decade. The support for Palestinians has happened in the past decade. The support for Black Lives Matter and anti-police brutality has happened in the past decade. Racism is an outgrowth of capitalism that relies on creating a racial underclass. These moments of domestic and international solidarity have been forming for decades, not just this one.

[@goldfishmotorcycle1204]

@@selalewis9189 those things are also important but they were by and large performed and supported by the "usual groups". The reaction -- a lack of condemnation and even support -- to this new act does feel wider spread.

[@pebblepod30]

All Americans can help by wearing a Luigi Hat (as in Mario Cart Character).

[@nondescriptname]

Without ideological grounding, I fear little will come of it. A general sense of unrest is not sufficient to organize and Americas are sadly McCarthy brained.I hope they prove my pessimism wrong, I just do not expect it.

[@Noneofyourbusiness57817]

The deer sheds no tears when the hunter dies

[@melowlw8638]

BARS

[@Brian-sh5ne]

While I assume your primary point is that we should not pity a person who actively profited off people's suffering, I can't help but take issue with this analogy, as it implies the healthcare system is part of the natural order of things of hunter and hunted. In truth, nothing about our political-economic system has to be the way it is

[@hankhillsnrrwurethra]

@@Brian-sh5ne Except that it was built by predators to make for weak easy prey

[@appa609]

​@@Brian-sh5ne to be fair, it is definitely natural for those in power to abuse their priviliges at the expense of the people. That doesn't make it right. Civilization is rebellion against nature.

[@IsraelLlerena]

@@Brian-sh5nedon’t expect an elephant to shed tears for the death of a poacher who’s primary goal was to harvest their ivory.

[@Leahcimmichael]

"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X

[@KootFloris]

Exactly, well quoted. The history of resistance is evolving as the rules and tactics of elites change. Non violent resistance is probably still among the most scary forms of resistance for elites, as it offers the masses the role of underdog. And then many actions against the masses makes the elites look bad. Hence all the current propaganda and distractions. I bet they rather have this murder, until it becomes fashion, than millions of Americans marching united. That idea (they call socialism) freaks them out much more. And paradoxically, this murder may lead to such marches, unless the distraction (other news) overrules this general hatred against the criminally insane form of healthcare the USA has.

[@caiden3396]

I do find it offputting how some people reacted. Instead of saying "He reaped what he sowed." or instead of preferring to reform the person but knowing it's unrealistic due to social and political factors (not that they're some poor teacher who just committed a misdemeanor), some people (possibly edgelords) seemed to come from a place of cruelty.

[@hankhillsnrrwurethra]

"If they let the preachers get hold of the party, it will be a Hell of a mess. They never comprimise, they think they're doing God's will." - Barry Goldwater (maybe not so crazy after all)

[@sid3fx1122]

Malcom X spread violence and hate

[@TheClinchMagazine]

Exactly what happened to poor Palestinians.

[@BravoOneCharlie]

Thing is that this is not just a "CEO", but one in charge of a company that kills thousands of people and bankrupts even more. And his death already backtracked the crazy decision of another US healthcare company to limit anesthesia on surgeries, this already made a huge impact.

[@RodrigoFernandez-k2i]

So, he was justified? I agree. I just think more ppl should just go ahead and say it flat out. And enough of this stuff about "I don't condone it, but i understand." If someone doesn't condone the only kind of thing that'll start the ball rolling they're on the side of the health insurance industry.

[@solar0wind]

I think people need to know that there are consequences for their actions. If fear of viol. retribution of the victims is the only consequence that exists for someone, that's extremely sad, but then so be it. But this should be the absolutely last resort. So in this specific case, I think it's still not good, but acceptable. But viol. should NOT be done out of rev . ge, but only if it can actually realistically inspire positive change, and should ONLY target the person IMMEDIATELY responsible. Not like "Oh, you didn't prevent them from doing this, so you're also guilty". Or "You profited from this in some direct or indirect way, so you're also guilty" or whatever. Because that will 100% overescalate the situation and will just make everything MUCH worse, instead of better. So so much can go wrong if you condone viol.. It's an extremely slippery slope, and if you take one wrong step, everything will become much worse.

[@solar0wind]

My comment keeps getting shadow-banned/deleted. Idk if it's visible now.

[@ashwinnaidoo796]

@@RodrigoFernandez-k2i yeah exactly, i think the world needs more ppl like Luigi

[@RodrigoFernandez-k2i]

@@ashwinnaidoo796 don't go getting any crazy ideas. Wink wink

[@c7261]

I think this video misses a large piece of the puzzle. It isn't solely the disparity between classes, it's HOW the CEO has made his wealth. Harmful exploitation through the promotion and systematic denial of healthcare as a means of profit. While Luigi might have killed the CEO, you cannot ignore the unimaginable bodycount the CEO was complicit in. America's healthcare for profit is the true enemy in this scenario.

[@annabauer5889]

Also, no one accidentally becomes CEO of a large company that already has a reputation for being responsible for suffering and death. You either have morals or you don't. I know a couple of people working in tech. They didn't want to work for a company supplying the weapon industry, so they simply didn't apply for those jobs. I'm not saying he made himself a target, but I struggle to feel sorry for his death. I feel sorry though that he was misled to believe that his career and wealth was more important than the life and wellbeing of any other person. It's sad to see people who are so detached from humanity.

[@user-th1pv6ks5o]

I know, insurance is a scam. Straight up steals all your money than you die, but without it you go into medical debt....then you die. It's a lose lose situation.

[@the-goddess-of-libraries]

I think that she assumed we as her audience would already know this, as much of her audience is already aware of the abuse and crimes that capitalists commit.

[@chocohazel94]

I believe she means that with respect to Protestant Ethics, the CEOs of the world are "moral", which boggles my mind bec some people actually think like this

[@jacob_massengale]

Everyone wants to tigh their political agenda to the hype around his action and get pulled up by it. From my point of view, the celebration of this could lead pundits to incite violence of all kinds that Luigi and his supporters now might find appalling. But the cats out of the bag and open targeted violence will be the name of the game.

[@1mespud]

Is it wrong to support Luigi Mangione? Let's all look at the scoreboard. Luigi Mangione: Allegedly one. Healthcare CEO's: Thousands plus and unfortunately still going strong.

[@Josiah-xe8up]

It is in the millions and your wording makes no sense. They are not going strong. They are dead.

[@shhwinner6663]

That 1000s is yearly they get paid to delete people.

[@oceanaxim]

"I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure." - Mark Twain

[@im_Smitty]

Probably tens of thousands if not 100k+

[@Josiah-xe8up]

@@im_Smitty Talking about secondary effects.

[@Nadine944]

What a nerve to say that the CEO was a true hero because he grew up poor. That's even WORSE - he grew up poor so he should understand the struggles of people who don't have much money, but he chose to kill them instead.

[@ohyeahyeah7000]

Thank you Luigi for triggering some class consciousness xx

[@neoxochitl]

Hopefully despite our attention spans, we will remember after a couple of days 😢

[@ohyeahyeah7000]

@ I think we will purely due to the fact he’s pretty

[@Helehache]

​@@neoxochitl Public free healthcare provided by government seems to be one of the very few popular policies for most Americans. But this will be useless while they keep voting against their interests.

[@sxt4447]

Yes, let’s thank the white American millionaire for bringing poor people class consciousness

[@EvilWeiRamirez]

We pray to Saint Luigi and honor him. On his day, we discuss jury nullification and class consciousness.

[@inuwooddog3027]

Perhaps it's not about supporting a crime. People sympathise with and admire him because he's the one who took decisive action, while we merely talk about the problem endlessly.

[@Redorgreenful]

That’s it. People admire that someone actually DID THE THING, at a cost to himself.

[@saitaro]

Yeah, but the "decisive action" is a murder, not only killing a human being but leaving his two children fatherless.

[@oscarrM3]

@@saitaro how many children were left father/motherless by UH? The moral standard should be equal

[@solonasisco2580]

@@saitaro The mother already had full custody anyway. There was hardly any collateral damage.

[@drnstjhn]

the doing something about it was offing someone

[@Li-Fu7]

Doesn't matter what's right or wrong, most people seem to, if they don't outright condone his actions, at least understand his actions. Public sentiment is behind him.

[@pointlessgarbage8587]

I think I’m confused. It does not matter what is right or wrong because the public supports something? That may be a dangerous precedent to set…

[@Helehache]

@@pointlessgarbage8587 What about the transphobic policies? There's unfortunately people that care more about their beliefs than others' integrity.

[@Li-Fu7]

@@pointlessgarbage8587 All I'm saying is it's pointless to moralize about this because the issue isn't whether what he did is right or wrong. The issue at hand is that the public by and large is sympathetic to his actions because they have often been victims of the broken healthcare insurance system he lashed out at. So much of the conversation revolves around whether what he did is right or wrong, but what he did is ultimately the outcome of widespread and deep seated public anger that can't just be moralized away. It needs to be addressed directly one way or another. The rule of the mob is not good, but when people see no recourse to address deep and long-standing problems in society, it becomes ever more enticing to them.

[@genuser9758]

I condone

[@Ithel-gd7ex]

Nothing matters anyways, but a lot of people like to pretend something does.

[@Shawn.Grenier]

The genuine and honest "What can we do?" question hit really hard. It's a symptom of the crisis of liberalism which, as a Leftist, both brings me joy and concern: Joy because it's great that people recognize that liberalism and the status quo doesn't work. Concern because the crisis of liberalism also opens the door to another radical alternative to the status quo, Fascism. As leftists, this is our time to spread class consciousness and talk about this popular event to promote a more cooperative and fair alternative to liberalism. Your video did that! Good job!!

[@Alanalan12297]

It's the only question in this garbage video! I don't understand why she chose to make it about the history of violence and punishment instead of simply talking about corporate greed and the fact that there is no other really effective option other than violence Could have been much simpler and better, instead she comes up with trash

[@bltcatwich]

@@Alanalan12297 would love to you see how you would do this video differently

[@Alanalan12297]

@@bltcatwich definitely without all the extra bs and sloppy logical fallacies! Why do you think of me as someone arrogant when in fact she is the only one who is arrogant by trying to sound intellectual and smart when things are much simpler and adding extra complexity just doesn't do us as left any favor. Please think it through before you judge me.

[@Alanalan12297]

@@bltcatwich otherwise, I don't have to do a video to criticize one! You can criticize the healthcare system without having some 1d1ot tell you "would love to see you run your company and do better"

[@bltcatwich]

@@Alanalan12297 i didn’t say any of the sort, i was just genuinely curious what you found to be extra. if you have an issue with how it was presented, i’d suggest legal eagle’s video. it gives you all the basic facts, but it also explains some of the legal stuff surrounding the case. take care 💜

[@1plus68hehe]

Thanks to Luigi, my southern mother has started to become class conscious and question the status quo! Thanks Luigi!

[@Ithel-gd7ex]

Lol

[@tompham637]

The same here. My mother has become class conscious.

[@adamborowicz7209]

OK, I and 4 years from now she'll be voting for Vance. xDDDDDDD

[@ronwallace6273]

help poor and middle not the rich

[@MyEconomics101]

Who has time to protest (e.g. street marches) if you can't pay rent while holding down two jobs?

[@selalewis9189]

Millions managed to do it. Where were you in the summer of 2020? Make time for the things that you care about. Join an organization and learn how to plan a direct action. Even us brokies do 😅

[@pookz3067]

Statistically speaking, the vast majority of people have that time.

[@skyekeating349]

@@selalewis9189 I do think it's a little unfair to expect people with no money and already working two jobs to do direct action. Many people do, but it is basically taking on a third job. People should have time for themselves and for hobbies. That's why I do direct action: so other people can get home from work and relax rather than going to their second or even sometimes third job.

[@KarlSnarks]

@@selalewis9189 You know what also happened in the summer of 2020? Many people sat at home because they couldn't work, which gave them better opportunity to protest. Not saying you shouldn't try otherwise, but it's not a great example of "making time" for it.

[@the_om_project]

People who died because of denials can’t protest.

[@Lily-ni5po]

If insurance companies decided to change course on their timed anesthesia coverage because of his actions, then he saved lives. He will lose his freedom and people will live that wouldn't have because of his choice. No if or but about it.

[@aenorist2431]

He does not have to loose shit. Jury nullification exists, and anyone with a conscience is just going to vote not guilty and let him walk. After all, its not murder if its a CEO.

[@personneici2595]

Trolley problem but they're all CEOs

[@tomvan6008]

His act will not change a thing.

[@MarcoBonechi]

​@@aenorist2431 the jury can be easily bribed. Wealth inequality prevents rule of law.

[@musakamara4157]

​@@tomvan6008it already did, they literally explained it in this comment. Get off your high horse.

[@marcodallolio9746]

Libs always mention Gandhi as the best example of change without violence. What they always leave out of the story is he derived a lot of his negotiating power from the threat of the more violent wings of the independentist movement

[@BalooSJ]

Exactly. A big portion of the strength of a non-violent movement is the implicit threat of "either negotiate with ME, or deal with THAT guy."

[@LunaLeaves]

When you make peaceful reform impossible, violent reform is inevitable.

[@inbb510]

The problem with your statement is that what if the violent "reformers" don't hold your exact political beliefs and are slightly more psychopathic than you are? Your statement can easily backfire on you the moment you accept vigilante justice as an acceptable form of expression.

[@Bennerman]

@@inbb510that’s the point… when you reject peaceful reform you get (uncontrolled) change.

[@inbb510]

@Bennerman who says a government has to accept reform simply because it is peaceful? If the government can't justify the finances to deliver such change, you can act like a spoilt depraved child on a violent temper tantrum all day long, that's not going to change the fact that government won't be able to deliver such change. You aren't entitled to change simply because you peacefully demand it. And this entitlement culture that stems from the colonial era is what is exactly wrong with Western society.

[@Helehache]

@@inbb510 it's actually "violent revolution", but the point is that if you don't give any alternative, people will choose the only one option left.

[@inbb510]

@@Helehache , To demonstrate how agreeing with this ideology can easily backfire: white supremacists are currently demanding a white ethnostate peacefully at the moment and we have been ignoring their "peaceful demands". Therefore, if the white supremacists pursue a violent revolution due to the State making their peaceful organisation impossible, you have to agree that their actions are understandable. Just because you peacefully demand something doesn't make you entitled to it. If governments can't justify the finances to offer you the thing you are demanding for, no peaceful protesting or violent temper tantrums is going to change that reality.

[@catheybottiau6365]

Luigi stood to gain nothing from his act, personally. The CEO committed countless deadly crimes, purely for personal profit. There's one criminal and one vigilante. One murder to stop many. Is he a hero? If Luigi could have used a magic wand to change things, I'm betting he would have. Unfortunately, that was not possible. The government and justice system have allowed many to die knowing the consequences of healthcare denials. It appeared to all of us non ogliarchs, that Luigi's method was the only one. Because he did it in the name of outrageous injustices being done, and not for anything else, he is a hero.

[@jagodarum]

The thing is, I'm not entirely certain that he has stopped many murders. We'll have to see what happens of course, but things like the failed trump assassination show that such murders can also embolden those already in power. United Healthcare will get a new CEO who most likely won't want to make concessions, the old one was just uniquely poorly guarded. The harsh option is not always the one more likely to be effective, I believe that's the case here

[@fornax5798]

He didn't even target the right guy and he actually made the people with money, security and Congress, support the healthcare industry even more.

[@nole8923]

@@fornax5798Trump had already been elected so supporting the health insurance industry even more was already baked in before the shooting. However, I see what you’re trying to do here and it’s quite insidious and evil. In doing so I know who you work for. Nice try though boot licker.

[@reading1713]

@@fornax5798 believe what you want. Congress already supported the healthcare industry as much as they could. What is more when Healthcare wasnt even allowed to be a topic of actual consideration during the recently concluded election. Joe Biden promised that he would pursue the provision of a public option but got into office and said nothing about it again. Kamala did not run on a public option for healthcare only tweaks to a trash system. Medicare for all was discussed at the last primary held but a dem establishment lobbying group headed by Jon Favreau from PodSave America worked to kill the idea and support for the proposal. For the first time in years, people on both sides have come together to force Healthcare to be a topic of conversation in the media. Blue Cross Blue Shield had to walk back their proposal to refuse to pay the full cost of people's anesthesia while undergoing surgery. The people saved because of that alone is significant enough to me.

[@endless2555]

Yeah, a hero for criminals/criminal sympathizers who don't care about law and order.

[@abracadaverous]

It's easy to overlook the deaths of poverty that our society inflicts because it's not in front of our faces every day, for the most part. But you'd be hard-pressed to find an American who hasn't had services denied to them or a loved one by healthcare corporations that think we need to experience more illness and pain so they can make their healthy shareholders a bit more comfortable. When asked to hold empathy for the people who have been responsible for doing those very same harms to the people we actually love and care about, we don't have any room left for them.

[@PoorMuttski]

It really seems like Brian Thompson got rich by dictating the means and motivation for his company refusing to deliver a service for which it was paid. UHC has been raking in profits, so it’s pretty clear that it is under no stress from payouts to its customers. They aren’t denying care because they can’t afford to pay for it. So, what is the point of them existing? How is the world made better by a company taking money from people and then refusing to honor its part of the deal and pay for their healthcare? What did we lose when Thompson got deleted? Why should we cheer the extraction of resources from a group of people who cannot afford to waste those resources and simply withholding it from them?

[@Noorieke]

Succesfull CEO is the antithesis to morally superior. He didn't the job because of high integrity. That is not what boards or stockholders value.

[@pebblepod30]

Exactly, you usually cant be a CEO if you are controlled by profit seeking shareholders, unless you have a LACK of integrity

[@swissarmyknight4306]

Worth bringing up that Thompson was literally under investigation for insider trading. Guy was a crook in addition to running a death factory.

[@Northwest360]

They said the same about John Brown, Ned Ludd, May Day. When our voting doesn’t work, what do they expect? “Please sir, may I have some more?”

[@Noneofyourbusiness57817]

Exactly

[@pisceanbeauty2503]

Lol, half of the people cheering him on either didn’t vote or voted for Trump. So they said by their vote that this was not an issue of importance to them.

[@Thajerkstar]

@@pisceanbeauty2503 Don't fall for the lies, they are meant to divide us. Neither party would have changed the healthcare system. Those who didn't vote, already know that. And those that voted for Trump are not any worse than people that voted for the other corrupt party.

[@tropistan7735]

​@@pisceanbeauty2503no, they understood their vote was absolutely meaningless, and many who voted for Trump did so out of desperation. You are still learning nothing

[@musakamara4157]

​@@pisceanbeauty2503so what's your solution then? How do we stop the needless murder of thousands every year so these CEOs get fat paychecks. Instead of telling people how to feel maybe do something productive to the conversation.

[@inquisitorialllama638]

He is necessary. They refuse to consider change peacfully. So this happens

[@eliudc.delgado9056]

Luigi will go down in history as a hero

[@sid3fx1122]

By psycho deranged liberals, yes

[@miguelpereira9859]

​@@tomvan6008He will definitely not be forgotten

[@dawnnicholson9675]

Whether he is inside or out, Luigi is not going anywhere!!

[@Ithel-gd7ex]

He will remembered as a meme, then be forgotten.

[@MacrosFTW]

​@@tomvan6008I agree. If everyone thought like you, I think we'd still have slavery, etc.

[@theflexitech]

My grandfather left early specifically to avoid giving his life savings over to the insurance company. Once he realized his life was mostly in their care, he made up his mind.

[@karenholmes6565]

My son always said he is happy that I own my home outright in case I get cancer. He thinks we would sell the house and pay for my treatments. I haven't told him that if I catch a bad diagnosis and the insurance company won't pay I am just going to let myself die. I am not taking the only thing I can leave him out of this world with me.

[@theflexitech]

@@karenholmes6565 I grew up believing I was paying into insurance, so elderly had the best healthcare possible. That's the hard stuff we deal with rn imo.

[@karenholmes6565]

@@theflexitech I am not old enough to get medicare yet. I have to hope and pray that my health holds until then. I have insurance, but I don't know if I got cancer how well it would go for me.

[@hankhillsnrrwurethra]

I'm getting up there. I've said it and about to codify it. What money there is is too precious to waste like that. For so little time anyway. If it looks bad to my loved ones, it is. I'm out. Don't waste money on that.

[@sebastianbardon391]

​@@karenholmes6565Your testimony is straight out dystopian. I hope Luigi helped to open some eyes to the many injustices in the US. We need Americans to be free.

[@pendragon2012]

I wouldn't say I support him. But unfortunately this kind of thing is going to happen more and more since the US is closing off all peaceful ways to address problems (voting, lawsuits, peaceful protest) and driving people to desperation. And to be honest, as a teacher, if I have to be aware I could get gunned down any day, I'm not choked up about CEO's having to have that in mind as well. Interesting video as always, Alice! Hope your December is going well!

[@kawaiiperson]

🎵"It was a murder, but not a crime"🎶💃

[@Helehache]

I support the cause, not the methods. But it's how the sentence says: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." I just don't think the act itself is direct action, but with enough luck, it will lead to it. It has never been a Cultural War, it's a class war provoked for those who benefit from others' lack of subsistence or misery.

[@RicochetAQW]

why dont you support the methods? Do you have a better one?

[@Helehache]

@@RicochetAQW it's because the method misses the point. This won't stop the system from keep going on.

[@jonstfrancis]

@@Helehache So what will?

[@Helehache]

@@jonstfrancis That's an excellent question.

[@RicochetAQW]

@@Helehache its literally the only method left. There are no better alternatives.

[@TheRedReid]

Much of the discourse surrounding the shooting has been centered around the morality of the act, whether or not it was justified, and whether or not violence is ever permissible. It's clear why the bourgeois media would want to limit the scope of our discussion to this myopic framing-each minute spent debating the ethics of the murder or condemning it is an additional minute whereupon the cause of the violence goes critically unexamined and capital goes unthreatened. Do not waste your time and attention on the ethical smokescreen. Our time is far better spent discussing the state of the US healthcare system, how capitalism is responsible, and the political utility of violence (e.g., the radical flank effect).

[@lllordllloyd]

Comment to draw attention to this comment

[@gaswe9236]

Comment to VERY draw attention to this comment!! Should be top!!

[@f1mbultyr]

yes

[@jess1ca-kate]

This is such an important point!!

[@highlyelasticpunchingbag9423]

who are you to talk about the ethics of healthcare when you can't even talk about the ethics of a key event? obviously it's a red herring, but you acting like discussing the ethics of the murder is meaningless is very cowardly and dishonest. If youre gonna be a progressive, you dont get to choose when and where to talk about ethics.

[@diegos7455]

As George Carlin once said: The game is rigged, folks. Democracy, freedom and institutions are mere words to keep us content. At this point, I only hope to don't get sick or become homeless

[@joechip1232]

We live in states where we are not allowed to be violent. The State has a monopoly on violence. Anyone else who acts violently is a terrorist or extremist. I don't condone violence, but this is the ideology of the system we live in.

[@Noneofyourbusiness57817]

Yet we’re constantly at war. You’re right, only the government has the right to be violent

[@swim3530]

We give up violence to the State in the social contract. The State's job in this contract is to uphold security and morality within the State through laws. If the State fails to uphold morality, which in this case, it is blatantly obvious that what UHC and the CEO were doing was completely immoral, why then should the State retain the monopoly on violence?

[@Ithel-gd7ex]

People aren't violent because they love mickey d's and Starbucks too much.

[@TheQuietPartisLoud]

The thing I really wanted to see from this video was a complete sentence saying "Yes, it it okay to support Luigi Mangione, here is why..." But there's just something about the existing media and social media hegemony that has people genuinely afraid of saying that singular thing plainly. From the very top of media, to the most independent, I'm seeing very few people saying it openly, obviously because that message gets aggressively suppressed, and punished. Glad you made this video, and I wish it were easier for people to say these things more openly.

[@joseph_wei]

Or they have been taken down, account suspended, the elites took down his GoFundMe page, remove all related merchandises on all platforms.

[@EstherDwomoh]

Mainstream media is trying very hard to push the narrative that people don’t like Luigi or what he did. But if you’re in a lot of social circles, many people either 1. Don’t support him, but fully agree with his sentiments 2. Support him and his alleged actions. There’s a lot of support for him on social media, across the political spectrum. Check the comments of Ben Shapiro and HasanAbi videos of this situation; all in support. The people can’t be silenced. Our voices will be heard.

[@selalewis9189]

I agree with you. I don’t understand this equivocation, especially from a content creator who doesn’t even live in the U.S. Like, she doesn’t even go here 😂 Just call the thing a thing!

[@popito8366]

Moral cowardice is nothing new

[@Eli-phunt]

@@EstherDwomoh What I can't believe is all the people that are willing to publicly denounce his actions, If I were rich I think I'd be keeping my mouth shut.

[@ztyneisnigh]

To the guy who literally "bit the proverbial dust" of the pavement, 0 sympathies to spare. I will not extend my sympathies to a head of a corporation who bankrupted ordinary people and caused grief, tears and sufferings to many families out of greed and narcissistic indifference. May the Lord readout all the injustices caused on your day of judgement.

[@neillore7332]

Luigi is a hero. I can only imagine everyone who works in the media pausing Robin Hood every five minutes to clutch their pearls and shriek about how a human being was just murdered in cold blood.

[@Ithel-gd7ex]

He is most certainly no hero, and no life matters regardless if it's a rich or poor one. People just project and want an excuse to indulge their animal instincts.

[@neillore7332]

@@Ithel-gd7ex This is less about animal instincts, and more about where our sympathy is directed. Mine is directed to the people who paid for health care, were cheated out of it, and then suffered or even died. How many? I dunno, tens of thousands? More? Society's sympathy is directed towards a guy who got filthy rich by helping his company legally kill unguessable numbers of people. Funny you mention animal desires - if we would do something about animal desires like greed, there would be less reason for animal desires like vengeance.

[@ReemTahir]

@@Ithel-gd7exI guess you don’t support the troops then…

[@chickensalad3535]

@@neillore7332I don’t feel sympathy for the CEO, nor do I feel sympathy for Luigi. However, I don’t like the precedent that the glorification of his crime sets.

[@the_agate_gate3782]

I fully support Luigi. He expressed the rage of the many who have been abused by the health care system, and called attention to the issue of unjust claim denials. Crybabies talk about violence not being right, as if the vast majority of revolutions for better conditions for the common people weren’t made through acts of violence. If peaceful means don’t produce change, then that’s what it takes. That being said, all the thirsting is weird (although not surprising).

[@Zectifin]

I hate when people whine about "I support the message, but not the action because its not going to change anything." So? I don't care. Eat the rich. literally.

[@mutestingray]

@@Zectifinthen do it.

[@gaswe9236]

​@@mutestingraywere all putting our 2 cents somehow. Some just cannot take the plunge to make such a risk bc they value their lives too much, and you cannot fault them for that

[@f1mbultyr]

"Violence is not right" the cry while fully supporting cops, prisons, courts, borders, armies and capitalism. Clowns.

[@oliviamary7934]

haven't watched the video yet but the fact that this had to happen for common Americans + the mainstream media to finally start talking about the atrocious healthcare insurance system in this country is pretty telling.

[@skyekeating349]

Based on his book list, he was a fairly average tech bro until somewhere between 2020 and 2022. Also, many people read books they don't entirely believe the politics of, or even books by authors whose politics are awful. I've read "Atlas Shrugged," "Brave New World," "Animal Farm," and "The Communist Manifesto" because they're essential books in a historical sense. Even if I don't entirely agree, it is good to know the theory others base their politics on, so we really can't gauge his politics based on the books, especially since many of them seem to be from when he was a tach bro and not yet anti-capitalist. He might not be a straight-up communist, but he is definitely anti-capitalist and definitely has some level of class consciousness. He also had several books about back pain around the same time, so it likely had a lot to do with his dislike of the American healthcare system.

[@Me-pt7ik]

You just mentioned the whole gambit of political theories with the books you listed you disagree with. So you are against right libertarianism, libertarian socialism, and Marxism

[@skyekeating349]

@@Me-pt7ik I don't disagree with all of them. I mentioned those to say I've read books I agree with and books I disagree with, so you can't really judge people's politics based on what they've read. I largely agree with something between libertarian socialism and Marxism, maybe Anarco-syndicalism, but that's become a meme, so I don't like calling myself that.

[@troupemusographes2460]

It’s not only about gaining class consciousness but also seeing one time too many those peaceful protests leading to nothing, or even be met with state violence (yes I’m heavily thinking about what happened in France these last years)

[@onetomeplz5825]

When you boil a frog slowly they say it won’t notice but when the frog jump ups and slap you don’t call The frog the violent one

[@PokhrajRoy.]

My favourite thing to happen was seeing organisations blocking their ‘About The CEO’ page after the incident happened.

[@itsdivyag]

10/10 video. In a system where the “acceptable” forms of protest gets seemingly no reaction from the government… yeah people will find ways to get the message across

[@kyootzee]

Thanks for doing this. So interesting to hear a perspective from a non-American. It is like Brian Thompson was sentenced to an extra-judicial public execution. Though unlawful, many people believed justice was served. If people like him could be put on trial, many would call for the death penalty. Sadly, the crimes he committed against his fellow Americans were legal. He had to be incredibly deluded to not realize the suffering his industry was causing even though there were many others doing the same thing and being well rewarded. Thompson was in that company for 20 years, got used to the money and lifestyle. He could have walked away, but he got comfortable and probably did not know what else he could do his life. Pretty sad that all that money could not fill his empty soul. He was not a main perpetrator - just another cog in the machine. These hypocrites on mainstream new media say violence is not the answer, but still support war in Gaza where innocent children are killed. They say violence is not these answer, but what else would have gotten the attention of public when many peaceful protests have been ignored?

[@Pining_for_the_fjords]

I don't think it's social class that makes people hate this CEO. Luigi also comes from a rich family. It's the unethical practices of United Healthcare that this CEO was responsible for.

[@somgears1589]

No one can decide what class he is born into, but everyone can change his mind.

[@chickensalad3535]

@@somgears1589He continued to benefit from the privilege he was born into, all of the way up to when he committed the murder. He’s not a socialist hero (not that being a socialist hero is a good thing).

[@HhaaJshshs-zr8ir]

The insurance company is violent

[@Rune__]

I just hope this will bring a change to the American healthcare system, being the only civilized country in this world who relies on private healthcare is insane. It’s clearly not working. You have money you get healthcare. Meanwhile in other countries, you get sick you get healthcare……

[@CashewPaladin]

Great video, a small critique from a Historian and Sociologist: It is unclear just how anti-capitalist Luigi Mangione is. While he certainly has criticisms of exceptional cruelty in certain sectors of the capitalist system I have not seen enough to take the step of saying he is an anti-capitalist. I think his focus on the exceptional cruelties is very important though and it is clear, even before his motives were revealed, that that has resonated with the broader public and people who would NEVER consider themselves against the system and social order of capitalism. He is a stem guy, and I say this without being overly judgemental, his taste in books is far from a theory nerd (such as myself) dream that would indicate a criticism of capitalism as such. That may make him even more relatable to the broader public who might be put off with a more explicitly socialist/communist/anticapitalist political perspective from him. He certainly took an anti-capitalist action, he literally k*lled a capitalist, and he shows a notion of Engels' conception of the "social murder" that capitalists, corporations, the capitalist system participate in through the placing of "proletarians in such a position that they inevitably meet a too early and an unnatural death, one which is quite as much a death by violence as that by the sword or bullet". However this m*rder of an individual, while potentially understandable, would not in itself strike a blow against capitalism. Brian Thompson will almost certainly be replaced by someone as, if not more, cruel in their social murder and exploitative practices. The social reaction to it might strike a blow against capitalism, and this could be seen as a catalyzing factor. The reaction is already producing small but consequential changes, with another insurance company going back on a proposed policy changes which would reduce coverage. I think our reaction to Luigi is exactly what you said, we don't like burning parliaments, stealing, or beheading elites but we understand why someone or a people would be driven to that point through social circumstances. We need a revolution in the ~current state of things~ and I think all of us with critiques of the state of things would prefer if this change would occur without further violence and with a peaceful transfer of power from our elites, the capitalists and their servants. I think we also should agree that the arbitrary k*lling of capitalists is not a revolution. That said those who are clear eyed and historically literate will recognize that the ruling class have no intention of abdicating their control without putting up a resistance. Beyond that, any reform of our system has come after massive violence on those attempting change and mere reform without power transfer leads to an inevitable erosion of reforms and kicking the can down the road for future generations to suffer from and struggle against.

[@somgears1589]

History will only repeat itself. The rulers will not give up power, and if they are greedy and stupid enough, they will do more.

[@f1mbultyr]

HIS ideology and convictions don't matter. What WE make out of it matters. He's a bit of an unstable idiot who stumbled into doing the right this. Doesn't mean we can't claim his actions as our form of justice.

[@chickensalad3535]

@@f1mbultyrI think that’s a better way of putting it. While I don’t entirely agree with the cause (I agree with probably 80% of it), it’s the idolatry of Luigi and the glorification of his crime that has really made me reassess vocalizing any support.

[@davidvernon3119]

It isn’t that we are more civilized, we are more surveilled.

[@babygrill01]

7:50 Like the Mark Twain quote says, the premises are in fundamental disagreement. This is not violence of the people, it is self-defense

[@FabianEllis]

I love how scared the ruling class are. Good video!

[@videosssify]

Don’t know about supporting of Luigi, but it is definitely wrong to support insurance companies

[@elsafowl]

I was telling the story of my flatmate, who managed to steal an entire bag of supplies in a big supermarket (Leclerc, for those of you who live in France), and I was presenting the act like a masterful plan with a successful ending. I myself stole a few times, not as much, but a thing here and there to avoid wasting all of my money on overpriced yet necessary product (food). Anyway, some of my classmates (to whom I was telling the story) laughed and said it was a work well-done, but a surprising amount of other classmates were so judgemental about it - and it's not loss on me these classmates were from the richest backgrounds as well. Some were like, "why would you or you flatmate steal, if you have money to buy stuff" and I was like, "where is the limit between I have enough or I don't". Besides, what was the crime in stealing from a big corporation that was destroying the planet and selling us overpriced food while not paying agricultural workers enough? Anyway, some were totally against the thieving unless you are literally dying of hunger in the streets. And a few others were even worse than that: they were like, "stealing is a crime, no matter the reason." They didn't care about stealing from a big corporation or a little local grocery store, they didn't care how much or what you stole, it was simply the act of stealing that was "immoral". I must admit, I kinda struggle with their take on this subject. Seriously, is stealing that bad of an act to you? Is it not justified in this system that's stealing from us every day, anyway? It wasn't even "I wouldn't do it myself but I won't judge", it was simply "it's bad and you're immoral for doing it." It made me think of the capitalist protestant mode of thinking from your video. I don't know if it means my classmates don't have class consciousness, but it is a possibility

[@ville-c4u]

Reported you btw

[@elsafowl]

@@ville-c4u lmao you class betrayer 🥲 sad you're continuing to support the system that will kill you, helas deny is a powerful thing

[@EvilWeiRamirez]

Back in ancient Rome, they had lots of political violence. When one side won, they still gave up concessions to the losing side. That's because of the threat of violence. When they outlawed violence, the royal guard became the dictators.

[@Noneofyourbusiness57817]

History is filled with violence. Even now violence exists to exact change. Look at all the wars in the world. Yet that’s ok because the world warmongers say so?

[@laetitialalila7390]

I heard "gay fox" instead of "Guy Fawkes" and for a moment I thought that Robin Hood Disney animation was a gay fox and got the sudden urge to see it :))

[@arghjayem]

To quote the bard “there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so”. If one soldier kills another soldier in a war is that murder? No. The reason why we are taught as a society to be horrified at violence is that violence of any kind is dangerous to the system. The system requires order above all; it needs people who are docile and obedient and don’t make trouble. Prior to the Industrial Revolution, American society was far more tolerant of violence than it is today, the emphasis on nonviolence arose in response to the industrial system’s need for an orderly and docile citizenry not because it despises violence. The system relies on the threat of violence to maintain order but is intolerant of individual violence as it might disrupt that order. Hence why a cop can murder a suspect and receive minimal punishment but an individual doing the same will at the very least be imprisoned for a while if not murdered themselves by execution. Fortunately for Luigi New York State doesn’t have the death penalty. And as for the CEO? He was a murderer himself. He may not have pulled a trigger but he’s still responsible for the death of hundreds if not thousands of people through his companies approach to healthcare and denial of treatment resulting in deaths. I’d call that murder. So is it wrong to murder a murderer? Plenty of US states do that all the time. No different in my book but as it’s not enacted by the system but by an individual it is perceived as being wrong.

[@corpskorp]

That Protestant concept of wealth being seen as high morality is especially frustrating when you look at what the Bible itself actually says about wealth. Verses like, "The love of money is the root of all evil," and "Harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to enter the eye of a needle," both make it clear that it is not a good thing to be rich.

[@presidentpapillon2625]

this actually a calvinist concept.

[@miro.georgiev97]

​@presidentpapillon2625 Calvinism is not different from Protestantism. Protestantism is the umbrella term; Calvinism is merely one strain of Protestantism. And that equation of wealth with morality is not even particularly unique to Calvinism, as many other Protestant strains also hold a similar view. Hell, this attitude isn't even confined to Christianity. Plenty of cultures, both historical and contemporary, all over the world have made this fatal conflation, to the unending misery of untold billions for thousands of years.

[@niewazneniewazne1890]

It's a matter of how much suffering the company must have induced. He was in a position of power in the corporation denying the most amount of healthcare claims. Of course not all claims that haven't been denied at first, haven't been allowed, but even those stories don't look good(like the feeding tube being "cosmetic"). The deny rate is 33% of claims. The CEO basically symbolized some rot of the US healthcare system and how it doesn't encompass all(how it's basically not handled by the state as the service to the American people). It does create a call for action, but I think the ball on implementing changes atm is on Republican's side?(they have the majority in the house). Which for now mourns after the CEO.

[@nukiolbartes6279]

I condemn corporate greeds that rob many lives

[@nachis04]

I think the reaction we see when it comes to something like healthcare is very well summed up by this quote from The Dispossessed: “It is our suffering that brings us together. It is not love. Love does not obey the mind, and turns to hate when forced. The bond that binds us is beyond choice. We are brothers. We are brothers in what we share. In pain, which each of us must suffer alone, in hunger, in poverty, in hope, we know our brotherhood. We know it, because we have had to learn it. We know that there is no help for us but from one another, that no hand will save us if we do not reach out our hand. And the hand that you reach out is empty, as mine is. You have nothing. You possess nothing. You own nothing. You are free. All you have is what you are, and what you give.

[@markedid5818]

You can only take advantage of people for so long before something is going to break, especially when the business model is maximum profit over everything else including your life.

[@adventurersclub1]

In the eyes of the media, he is already guilty... so it will be interesting to see how you can find 12 people who are not biased in any way. 🙂

[@economobserv]

I learned that if something helps you to tolerate this world - it is better to last longer. Right now it is Luigi. I cant change that

[@Ithel-gd7ex]

Whatever floats your boat

[@lasharael]

1:15 In the US, the bank robbers of the Great Depression come to mind. Many of them were celebrated as folk heroes. People followed their exploits in the papers, and a lot of people felt they were giving the banks what they deserved. Bonnie and Clyde are the most remembered and celebrated of the bank robbers of this period.

[@potatokiosk8711]

Luigi Mangione, devourer of CEOs

[@adventurersclub1]

The government killed BinLaden, an old, wounded man, without giving him a trial. Luigi (possibly) killed a really bad man and now that's suddenly wrong ???

[@rmleighton1]

Most wealth is inherited. Not earn.

[@WilliamThePayne]

I don't think he was an anti-capitalist as you say. He certainly had a strong dislike of the pharma industry, but he also seemed to be a fan of Elon Musk, not the behaviour associated with an anti-capitalist.

[@unconventionalideas5683]

That might have been more of a legacy of working in the tech industry where a lot of people had respect for what he was doing with Tesla and SpaceX and Starlink. I am unsure about what that is like now.

[@f1mbultyr]

HE does not have to be and ideologically convinced ant-capitalist for his actions to be anti-capitalist vigilante justice. Some people just fumble their way into doing the right thing.

[@newscoulomb3705]

I think this was a learning experience. For me, it illustrated the difference between the Left and Right base in America, with the former opposing all forms of violence and the latter believing that individual acts of violence are a valid means to an end. I'll admit that I am personally torn, but I also recognize that the American justice system is broken, leaving many people with few options for actual justice.

[@miro.georgiev97]

On the contrary, plenty of principled leftists have supported and continue to support certain forms of violence under certain conditions, such as systemic oppression. Do not make the mistake of thinking leftists are somehow all hippie-dippie peaceniks. You can absolutely abhor violence yet still find it _necessary_ when a situation demands it.

[@not_simon6983]

no its not

[@lavendereucalyptus3225]

Luigi Mangione has become a phenomenon, it’s the right time, the right place and the right person. And he is brave to give his life (if he were sentenced to decades in jail) to confront the most BRUTAL HONESTY of our corrupt hellcare system to wake up Americans’ consciousness. .

[@tarotaddicts4695]

Unbelievable how this is one of the biggest moments in American history.

[@qqqalo]

He isn't anti-capitalist. His politics are more closely inline with silicon valley tech CEOs than with any anti-capitalist group. He simply doesn't agree with the for-profit healthcare system in the USA, which is something that the vast majority of Americans disagree with.

[@liamconlon4375]

I don’t support vigilante justice, but I’m not crying over Brian Thompson’s death.

[@ameliecarre4783]

Fair and balanced.

[@Helehache]

I share your take.

[@maschae4500]

but what is the differnwce between police doing violince and a "vigilante"

[@inbb510]

This is a fair opinion but the problem is many people actually do without actually thinking through the real-worls consequences of it.

[@inbb510]

​@@maschae4500, imagine if you were attacked by vigilantes if you did something that pissed off another group of people for whatever reason. Then you'll know that answer.

[@annavonarbor]

I've been curious to hear what our friends in France might have to say on this topic! The way this has been framed as a "murder in cold blood", rather than an assassination, bothers me somewhat. These CEOs are the New Kings, and to revolt is in our nation's DNA. I think it's important we remember that the American Revolution began with boycotts and demonstrations, and ended in bloodshed. Things don't just escalate like that out of nowhere. The War started five whole years AFTER the Boston Massacre. Just like you said- people were fed up, what else could they have done? Sign another petition?

[@chickensalad3535]

It was a murder in cold blood, though. You may agree with the motive but that doesn’t make it not murder.

[@annavonarbor]

@chickensalad3535 No, that's not what that means. I never said it wasn't a murder. The phrase "in cold blood" is used to describe something inhumanly cruel and not understandable to the average person. It's another way the wealthy are trying to control the narrative. I have only seen major news networks using that phrase in their coverage, not anyone else.

[@ville-c4u]

Luigi is bad guy btw

[@Herobeans]

Luigi is a saint

[@hagbardceline7118]

It seems people are assuming already that he did in fact do the shooting despite their being some reasonable doubt to it. I feel it would be best to not take the NYPD at their word. Dude could easily be a patsy or would be copycat. We really shouldn't be concluding someone's guilt over this before it's even gone to court.

[@tulip5210]

Yes he should be referred to as the suspect not the killer

[@OffTopic-f3n]

While I deeply understand and share the frustration and anger over the actions of the CEO and the broader systemic issues they represent, I feel it’s important to emphasize that what Luigi did was, at the end of the day, murder someone in public. A lot of the reaction I’ve seen has been focused on glazing over the act itself-highlighting how "hot" Luigi is, for example-which ultimately risks glamourizing or romanticizing what was a violent and extreme action. I think this could harm our movement. We need to stay focused on the root cause of our outrage: the horrific behavior of the CEO and the system they upheld. And ultimately this CEO will be replaced with another heartless person so the murder ultimately won’t do much since it it a complete system we are dealing with. This situation has reignited important conversations, and we absolutely should take these discussions to the streets. But positioning Luigi as someone to rally behind or support feels odd to me. It’s critical that we hold onto our values, ensuring we don’t condone or glorify actions that ultimately detract from the larger fight for justice. Let’s keep the focus where it belongs-on the systemic problems-and resist anything that risks undermining our message or the strength of our movement.

[@thebookkeeper0851]

What I am seeing is two sides of the coin, whilst Luigi comes from an affluent family, many claim that this makes his cause illegitimate. Whilst others claim, the ceo is a victim and worthy of sympathy having left behind 2 kids and a wife. So who is right? The deceased ceo, despite coming from a working class background, climbed the ranks and served as ceo for 20 yrs. Though these policies were already in place, he could have been the voice of change in the health care sector. However, that was neither the case. He then represents the system and upholds the ideals of his employer rather than doing what insurers were suppose to do, help the people. The ceo went from working class citizen to upholder of the rich and suffered, thus becoming the victim in the hands of the investors. Did it mean that the people under UHC did nothing to resolve their issues with the UHC? No, they did what all people do file complaints, challenge their policy. But when these grievances fall on death ears, there comes a boiling point when things hit the fan. While we focus on individuals like Robinhood, real life moments like these have happened like the riot of Attica Prison in NY, 1971, where prisoners were demanding better living conditions, service, and medicine, but the authorities that were suppose to reform these men believed that they weren't worthy of sympathy, this led to a blood bath killing both officers and prisoners on both sides. People have grievances it is important not to ignore them.

[@hodelhophopp9386]

What does the French in the end mean though? After the credits? 12:26

[@TurnHandUp]

That’s am interesting thought and as Ukrainian facing a lot of violence and aggression I can’t only say one thing: it is heroic to try to play fair game when rules are unfair, but this will never bring you to the win. No one respects a fair player in unfair game. You can’t fight the violent aggressor with peaceful words, though we want to believe we can so much, as we all want to believe that world is a better place.

[@GootGamer]

I see him more like a symptom of how fucked up the US actually. Like I don't think he did something horrible, but he's neither a hero.

[@quandrixtwincaster5738]

Short answer? No. Long answer? No.

[@albertog3329]

Thank you for this reflection, Alice. Lately I've been thinking about how we should change the way we protest. Class conciseness is essential for making any movement or protest effective. In that sense, I envy France for knowing how to make protests have a real impact. At the same time, they are quite violent compared with other countries'. Big changes are needed in our society if we want to save the planet and our own lives from uncontrolled and destructive capitalism.

[@quuaaarrrk8056]

"The rules only apply to one side, and the other side can get away with anything" - Well said. Throughout history, people unhappy with their regimes tried to change these through forms of protests, through rebelling against it. For a long time, such acts were not openly tolerated, but to varying degrees part of political life. In a way, one might argue that protests inherently must be out of the boundaries of the normally acceptable within the system, because it is that system that shall be changed. When the Fridays for Future demonstrations took of, a professor of mine said something that really stuck with me: "I encourage you to go, but I cannot permit you. Your protest is meant as a statement against us. I cannot take away that force". The most extreme form of opposition to the system, out of normally acceptable bounds, is _tyrannicide_ - the killing of, in the perception of the assailant, a tyrant who shows excessive cruelty and supression against the people under his rule. •In this case, the first question is: Is (rather was) Brian Thompson a tyrant, can CEOs be tyrants? Greek philospher would have said "no". A tyrant is a politician, employing obvious and visible control over the state. A CEO is not that. And yet, in modern Western society, CEOs exert considerable political influence, with lobbying often being a decisive factor in decision-making. Furthermore, even without political responsibility in the strict sense, CEOs are responsible for thousands of lives and, just like tyrants, experience personal gain to the detriment of the people placed under their control. •The second question is much more difficult to answer: Is tyrannicide legitimate? That is by any means not a new question, in fact it has been around as long as tyrannicide itself. Let me give you an example: In my country, a man once tried assassinating the democratically elected leader along with his chief staff. When he failed, he was rightfully, so the view of the state, executed. What do you think? Was the assassin in the right or is the assassination of the democratically elected chancellor crossing the line? The assailant's name was Stauffenberg, his would-be target was A. H*tler. Alice mentions Guy Fawkes, who tried to blow up the English parliament - legitimately? Of course not, so the English state's theory. Julius Caesar was killed by his peers in the senate - legitimately? He was an autocrat focused on abolishing democratic rule. His assassins were at first hailed, but later hunted down and demonised by Caesar's successors who ultimately brought about the Roman Empire. Maximilien Robespierre, Nicholas II., Nicolae Ceauşescu - killed legitimately? Aside from the moral standpoint, the view of specific (attempted) tyrannicides has been shaped by the political standpoint. When the assassins succede and a new system is born/reformed, the assassins are praised as heroes. When the systen survives, the assassins are criminalised as murderers, the target sometimes being confirmed in their rule, sometimes becoming martyrers. From time to time, the result is less clear. The ultimate goal failed, but only because the hydra has too many heads. Yet, the destruction of one sends a signal - a signal of resistance, which despite being inherently bloody, is romantizised and assigned attributes of virtue, a signal to the other tyrants that, even if their system survives, they themselves might not, so they'd rather change the system. Personally, I am torn. On the one hand, I strongly believe in the intangibly infinite value of human life. Taking a life, as death sentencte or similar, is beyond. The line must be drawn here. And yet, on the other hand tyrannicide is not, or not mainly, punishment. It primarly serves not as public punishment, to say "see what happens when you do that", but to get rid of that altogether. The motivation, the outcome, and the public results play a role. If the goal is to change the system, then the life is not the target, only the means. The ends don't justify the means, but they do make them understandable, something to identify with, albeit the assailant must bear responsibility. If the end is not reached, but a spark is lit toward that end, then let that spark, even if a spark from destructive lightning, ignite a beacon of hope!

[@Epinardrouge]

Dans l'absolu je suis contre la peine de mort, je n'encourage pas ce genre d'action bien au contraire, il y a plein d'autre manière d'être révolutionnaire et d'aider la population. Luigi est un révolutionnaire qui a choisi la méthode violente, et c'est assez radicale pour Brian Thompson qui dans le cadre de son activité a permis à sa société de prospérer en refusant des soins à des milliers de gens qui se ruinent pour bénéficier d'une assurance. Perso je suis en France je suis privilégiée (merci Ambroise) du coup je ne peux pas comprendre le sort de la population américaine sur cette question là. En revanche je suis activement convaincue que grâce à la sécurité sociale, notre société est beaucoup moins violente qu'aux US, je pense qu'il y a une corrélation entre le manque d'accès au soin et la violence ( comme la pauvreté et la violence). Pour revenir à luigi c'est moralement contestable ce qu'il a fait, mais cette situation intervient dans un contexte où ce n'est pas morale de faire des milliards en envoyant des gens qui t'enrichissent au cimetière, c'est pour ça que j'ai envie de dire Cheh à ce PDG et FREE LUIGI .

[@malaykatoure8706]

There needs to be jury nullification not because his actions are condoned, but because they are symptomatic of a bigger societal issue that needs to be highlighted immediately!!

[@lefunnyN1]

the contrast of normie reactions to this case, compared to the case of daniel penny or kyle rittenhouse, is quite insane. truly interesting times have come.

[@taragwendolyn]

There are more recent examples that also line up better with what he did. Look up the political philosophy of Emma Goldman - this was right out of her playbook. As for why we had a relatively quiet period I think it's because of wealth inequality, or a lack of it. While we had a strong middle class nobody really took ideas like class consciousness seriously. But every time it's gotten particularly unequal things like this start happening. I don't think this will be the last

[@flammamancer]

I think instead of "supporting" what Luigi did we should be talking about what "drove" him to do what he did.

[@primordial.sounds]

All I can say is, some people can commit to being the change they want in the world.

[@GeneralStrikeandRiots]

Siamo tutti Luigi Mangione 🔥🏴

[@rosydegilio8649]

siamo tutti luigi Mangione- forza luigi noi ti capiamo.. LUIGI for president!

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

He's a literal superhero

[@CrystalStarscape]

No.

[@derek96720]

People don't need to support Luigi's "how" to support his "why."

[@abenagyampo]

if supporting him is wrong, i don’t want to be right. not just because he’s hot. he’s a hero. i feel nothing for the ceo.

[@Zectifin]

I'm tired of milktoast liberals saying they agree but "They don't support his actions." Nah dudes a hero. We could use more Luigis. He's united people across the political spectrum. Man has brought the country together.

[@julien558]

He is probably a psychopath or at least sick, and you like a lot of people before you fell a admiration for that, as strange as it looks to me this is a common behavior

[@Ithel-gd7ex]

He's not a hero. Stop projecting. People are just cruel to one another for no reason other than their instincts compels them to be that way.

[@KalashVodka175]

Let's be honest, some peoples would not support this guy if he was not conventionally attractive

[@chickensalad3535]

I don’t feel anything for the CEO either, but I don’t think Luigi is a hero. You don’t have to mourn the CEO’s death at all to understand that glorifying Luigi is bad.

[@JoannaKlekawka-xc1bv]

Let me help you: Gavrilo Princip acted in a similar way as Luigi. He took matters into his own hands and changed the course of history.

[@geneclarke2205]

Not the action but, yes, the message. In John P. McCormick’s book Machiavellian Democracy he says; "Class anonymous” democracy ignores the highly distorting power of the ultra-wealthy and electoral democracy alone cannot safeguard the economic interests of the many against America’s oligarchs." For example, Elon Musk was the largest donor in the 2024 election cycle, spending at least $277 million to back President-elect Donald Trump and other conservative candidates.

[@carlosegonzalez678]

Legalized crimes against humanity still crimes against humanity!

[@gmenezesdea]

I don't think it's clear he's an anti-capitalist. His reading list is full of self help books, pseudoscience and "self-made men" biographies.

[@annabauer5889]

I understand why he did it and it seems that he was successful with what he wanted to achieve. However, I personally think it's wrong to kill another human being, no matter how evil they are. I don't feel sorry for Thompson's death though, because I struggle to feel empathy for him. Someone who knowingly climbed the corporate ladder of a company responsible for a lot of suffering. The only thing I feel sorry for is that he was led to believe that his career and wealth were more important than the health and wellbeing of any other person.

[@saizan3193]

Someone need to send stronger message than Luigi..

[@spamfilter32]

It is *never* wrong to support a hero. #NotGuilty

[@adamborowicz7209]

sick hero for sick people

[@spamfilter32]

@adamborowicz7209 No country in the world is more sick than America. And Brian Thompson is a major reason for that.