LUXURY TOOL = No 97 Cabinet Makers Trimming/Chisel Plane Veritas Vs Lie Nielsen Review & Comparison

[@BatCaveCreations]

A viewer caught me sleeping! I didn't check the bed angles. I know, I know, I fail but.... here they are, and they are DIFFERENT! LN = 12* bed angle and the iron comes with a 25* primary yielding a 37* cutting angle. Veritas = 15* bed angle and the iron comes with a 20* primary yielding 35* cutting angle. Of course, the iron can be honed to adjust the cutting angle, but this was a good think to note that I missed/didn't even think to check!

[@joewilson4436]

Mt favorite thing about your videos is that most times when I'm trying to decide on X vs Y you've already made that video

[@BatCaveCreations]

Haha that is awesome! Thank you!!!

[@fasdm]

Nice video. I actually made two of these, using the Lie Nielsen blades, some brass and steel plate and various other bits (including some iron from a 2 1/2 pound weight). It's a fun project for the beginner plane maker. And the tolerances are loose for a glorified chisel.

[@BatCaveCreations]

I have seen a few ppl that made their own! That is a great option too! I wish we could pics on here, I wanna see the one you made!

[@tungsten_carbide]

I made one too way back using a spare block plane iron IIRC, possibly my first tool build so I was a bit out of my depth but it was a good learning exercise.

[@Driver10011]

Really enjoy these comparison videos. Would be interested in seeing comparisons of LN and Veritas side-clamping honing guides and their spokeshaves.

[@BatCaveCreations]

I will deff keep that in mind and great idea! I don't have any of either but will keep an eye out and see if I can snag or borrow some. Thank you and happy to hear your enjoying them! (I am too 😀)

[@tungsten_carbide]

Re- the honing guides, I was all set to say this would be an apples to oranges comparison, but then realised you did specify side-clamping. So went to check pics and _holy crap the LN one is expensive_ 😲😲😲😲 The Veritas one looks more sophisticated and has a wider wheel which I always think is a bonus for something that might be primarily for doing chisels and it's like a fifth of the price!

[@Driver10011]

@@tungsten_carbide yes indeed! The LN is supposed to be the Cadillac but the Veritas looks just as functional, if not more. The LN description says it only works with LN blades which would be a huge problem for me.

[@BatCaveCreations]

@@tungsten_carbide that was my thought exactly! when Veritas came out with the side clamping I was celebrating but.... i still havent bought it yet. I free hand 90% of the time and the other 10% i use the MKII but im sure I'll get it one of these days lol

[@jimsaleh3]

First of all, I love your channel. Keep up the good work. I do have a thought to share with you. I’m sure a large number of your viewers are very experienced and may have even used planes like these. But as a relative newbie, I think it would have been helpful to actually show one of these in “action.” In the number of times you said “it’s a chisel I’m not going to show it”, you could have shown a quick 20-30 second demo. You’ve done this on another video too. For the benefit of us newbies, please show us how these and other tools are used. Thanks!

[@BatCaveCreations]

That is a solid point! Thank you for bringing it up!! I will keep that in mind and add it to my video list. Go back and do some videos on "how to use _____ plane". Thank you for the positive feedback too!!

[@nerdsunscripted624]

I prefer the blue spruce one because it’s a lot less likely to dig into the work. It’s great for cleaning up glueups while the glue is a bit tacky as the slightest mishap with a chisel or this type of plane makes the chisel dive into the wood

[@BatCaveCreations]

I 100% agree! I only have the Blue Spruce one and it's amazing! I use it all the time!

[@sigogglin]

These first caught my eye when I saw the Lie Nielson video where Roy Underhill makes a cool pair of bench hooks. He also uses a long paring chisel in that vid.

[@BatCaveCreations]

Oooh imma have to look thay up, sounds like a cool video!

[@sigogglin]

@@BatCaveCreations kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipmZdKhmqNaboNU

[@troystaten5633]

I have one of the large LN 97's and it is of marginal utility, mostly for scraping glue of surfaces.

[@BatCaveCreations]

Agreed! Thank you!

[@Lapsin121]

New camera quality looks great. Would be cool to see a video on the different irons you can choose from. I always pick PM-V11 but is that the best choice ?

[@BatCaveCreations]

So there is a new one out by Lake Erie Tools that is supposed to blow PMV11 outta the water. I haven't tried it tho I tend to stick with whatever iron is in the plane when I buy it. Unless it's the old stanley I upgrade that with A2 Hock or PMV 11. I prefer pmv 11 on all benchplanes and o1 on jointery planes but I don't really have jointery planes anymore cus I use my router plane for like everything! Lol It's going to be a preference thing TBH. O1 easy to sharpen, doesn't stay sharp long A2, semi easy to sharpen, holds an edge a bit longer Pmv 11, PAIN to sharpen but holds an edge forever haha Lake erie one, I haven't tried but it's supposed to be easy to sharpen and hold an edge longer than PMV 11 I hope that helps! A video on it would be good but I think there are some out there already that are way more detailed than I'd be able to do hahah metal chemistry and such

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

Since these are more about luxury than practicality, the Lie Nielsen wins, because it's bronze, and I like bronze.

[@BatCaveCreations]

Haha fair enough :D

[@dragomirdichev1196]

Are they the same bed angle? 12 degrees?

[@BatCaveCreations]

No! I didn't even think to check that because of the type of plane it is but they are different! LN= 12* bed and V = 15* bed. Thank you! I am going to add a comment and pin it with that info!

[@tungsten_carbide]

I totally don't need a chisel plane (not that I can afford one haha) but I still found this very interesting, and there's no doubt in my mind which to go for! Lee Valley did a much better job here IMO, reinventing the tool from the ground up, and in contrast to my usual opinion on their handles it's _way_ better than the L-N's. One quick thing about the option of fitting a custom handle to the Veritas, a threaded insert isn't actually needed. Machine screws hold in wood (specially hardwoods) really well, and can give years of service without even being reinforced, which is dead easy as you just need to dribble in a little epoxy or superglue. No need for a proper tap to cut the thread either - you can either force the thread in if the wood isn't particularly hard, or make a rudimentary tap from a bolt either by cutting in 1-3 slots or grinding the end down to a tapered-square profile (a tip from one of Robert Wearing's books).

[@BatCaveCreations]

oooh! That is a great point! One I didn't even think about, this is why I LOVE the tool community! You basically just told me I can turn this knob into Bocote a lot easier than I thought, so that made my day. Thank you!

[@tungsten_carbide]

@@BatCaveCreations Very welcome!

[@scottcountryman6090]

I wish you could help me set up my Jorgensen #4 plane. I know the blade is sharp, I know the bottom is flat but I am having a terrible time getting consistent shavings. I’ve gone to almost exclusively using my Stanley sweetheart low angle jack for everything

[@BatCaveCreations]

It sounds like backlash (doesnt really happen on bevel up planes but it does on bevel down), check this video and lemmie know if it helps: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqm1XopnbteFsKs

[@tungsten_carbide]

What is/are your issues specifically? There are a few possible things that might be going on, and various remedies for them. Just to list a few, if you're having problems with thickness of shaving side to side you might need to tighten things just up a bit more. Ditto if you're having problems with the iron backing out of the cut (so it cuts initially but then stops). Have you checked the sole for flatness? You don't need to go bananas here and get out the feeler gauges, but check along its length, both diagonals and across the width to get a quick confirmation that you don't have a low mouth. If present this a major issue for a smoother, where you'd get away with it (barely notice, if at all) if there was the same discrepancy on a standard jack plane.

[@christopherharrison6724]

Is not every plane a jig to hold a chisel?

[@BatCaveCreations]

Yes but I don't treat other planes like a chisel haha this plane can be treated like a chisel esp cus it's open in the front. They can do similar tasks :)

[@corwind3888]

I'm still considering a chisel plane and appreciate this video comparing these two. As to the depth adjuster on the LN plane, a replacement knob with a bearing that fits into the blade's slot might help IF it would fit this plane -- check out Reed Tool's product available through Wood by Wright in this video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6LOnGyNo66WbZI. I have two of these bearing adjustment knobs on order as they fit the LN 60-1/2 block plane(s) and the LN 62 LA Jack.

[@BatCaveCreations]

That is awesome!!! Thank you!!

[@bigkiv47]

@@johnedwards6939 Everyone I know who owns a LN 62 now has a Howard adjuster with the ball bearing. Just so much better. But it is no longer publicly available and only available to owners of the Henry Eckert planes. :) But hey the LN still works fine but can and was made better with the Howard adjuster :)

[@tungsten_carbide]

Out of curiosity what use(s) do you see for one of these in your shop? Early on I had the common complaint of wanting All The Tools, and since I couldn't buy one I made a chisel plane. It worked okay, but I eventually realised that scraping and conventional paring took away about 95% of the 'need' for it and it languished in a drawer for a few years until I scavenged the iron from it to put it back into a block plane.

[@tungsten_carbide]

@@johnedwards6939 Agreed! I'm actually kinda shocked there is imparted lateral movement with the use of the wheel, my cheap Chinese knock-off low-angle block plane doesn't have this issue, and that certainly wouldn't have won any awards for fit when I got it! (Finish was actually surprisingly decent however, the grinding of the cheeks and sole was vastly superior to any post-war Stanley that I've seen.)

[@bigkiv47]

Reposting this as I accidently deleted my original comment :) Henry Eckert in Australia use a ball bearing depth adjuster, developed by an Australian named Bob Howard, the Ball bearing on the Howard Adjuster takes care of lateral movement when adjusting the depth. It spins in the iron groove and removes all lateral movement associated with the Lie Nielsen version. It is a Aussie invention marketed by Henry Eckert but no longer available to buy unless you own a Henry Eckert plane. I believe HE had a disagreement with Lie Nielsen regarding HE using their Howard Adjuster on there planes after market. Henry Eckert were the Lie Nielsen dealer in Australia up to the time of the disagreement. I own two HE planes, their No 62 and 65 and the Howard adjuster just works so smoothly as it removes the friction associated with the Lie Nielsen type of adjuster. Pity you guys who own the LN 62 can't get one now. Unsure why HE no longer sell them publicly, maybe a LN thing as LN are still in Australia just around the corner from HE lol This LN and HE thing is all hear say but I believe it happened. Don't understand why LN didn't jump on the improvement and have stuck with their out dated adjuster

[@BatCaveCreations]

That is really interesting! Deff dint know about thay and never heard of HE! A buddy shared that there a few places not that make those. I think my other buddy can actually make one but.... I'm debating on selling the 62. I rarely use it but I have a video to redo about it then I'll decide hahha Thank you for sharing (and glad you reposted lol)! Imma look into HE!

[@bigkiv47]

@@BatCaveCreations Pity they stopped selling them publicly. I can still get them but I have to return the one that is broken, if I ever break one. Which makes me believe something happened between them and Lie Nielsen in regards to this, or maybe the inventor stopped them selling them outside of with a plane. Either way I hope they last forever or at least HE stay afloat for ever lol

[@BatCaveCreations]

I get you! I have heard of other ppl that make them, maybe just not avail in Australia? I haven't done the dive on Google yet to find one but buddies are saying Reed makes them 🤔

[@tungsten_carbide]

That's some interesting market details from Oz! Re. L-N sticking with their outdated adjuster, they're not really a company that is famous for making the wisest decisions! They based all their initial plane models on the false premise that the Bedrock design was superior, but of course it allowed them to charge the in-built premium price for that style of plane from the get-go, so maybe it wasn't so dumb after all 😁

[@BatCaveCreations]

Oooh you are the first I have heard say that Bedrock isn't the superior Stanley design? I'm curious, why?

[@tim_g_9187]

Have you tried the Howard adjuster?

[@BatCaveCreations]

I haven't but I heard great things about it!

[@tim_g_9187]

@@BatCaveCreations I was wondering if that would address the blade coming out of square while adjusting depth. I've gotta get a couple

[@BatCaveCreations]

Yes it would! Reed also has an adjuster like that if ur in the states. It solves that problem 100%

[@tim_g_9187]

@@BatCaveCreations yep, I believe it is a copy of the Howard. I am in the states, not far from you in NY :)

[@BatCaveCreations]

Thats awesome! Im in PA. I'll be headed to Buffalo NY later this month to go to the Lee Valley store in Niagara falls!

[@fredpierce6097]

Big money to then be aggravated with either plane? You can get a long handled long shank quality vintage paring chisel with excellent reach for $50…….

[@BatCaveCreations]

That's why I said luxury tool and not needed haha but I find it handy from time to time.

[@fredpierce6097]

@@BatCaveCreations The presentation was accurate, interesting and worthwhile and it saved me from spending these “big guys” $$$$$$$

[@ПавелСоловьев-с9ш]

Это не бронза а латунь