M.A.C.O. Full History

[@ManabiLT]

I have a friend who was in the US Navy and he told me about Marines being transported on Navy ships. In short, sailors thought the marines were annoying and in the way, because they had no roles on the ship itself, while the marines thought the sailors were worthless, because they didn't do ground combat. This lead to a lot of friction, so the difficulties the MACOs had integrating into life on the Enterprise is really spot on. My favorite story was how one off duty sailor managed to prank the marines by standing in a corridor reading a book. A marine comes along and thinks the guy's waiting in line for something, so he got in line behind him. This continues until there's a long line of marines and their commander finds them. He goes up the line asking what they're doing, all of them basically shrugging and pointing to the person ahead of them. Once he got to the sailor and asks him, he answers "I was just reading a book," closes it and walks away. The commander then hauled all the marines off for some extra training, since they _clearly_ had too much free time on their hands.

[@Yandarval]

To paraphrase a British Admiral. The Marines are a bullet fired from the Navies guns. The Marines needs the navy to get them where they need to go. Marines are impotent and useless without the means to get there and be supplied.

[@keithtorgersen9664]

I imagine the sailor probably avoided those marines after that

[@billtree52]

​@@keithtorgersen9664probably threw a box of crayons on the ground to distract them. 😂😂

[@theb3654]

I was a Engineer (MM) on a ship that transported Marines and yeah for some people what you said was true the majority of us got along fine.

[@ManabiLT]

@@keithtorgersen9664 Yep, my friend said the sailor had to make himself scare for a while afterward when off duty.

[@kevinramsey417]

The MACOs were one of Enterprise's better ideas. They would have been extremely useful in the Dominion War, or better yet as a unit specially trained to fight the Borg.

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

Especially since the dominion war essential turned officers into actual soldiers by pure practicality

[@mrbojangles8133]

it could've ended several wars from happening due to Earth training and expertise

[@SalinaMoonfall]

all this, while it feels like Starfleet managed to remember the need for a military footing through Kirk's era, the Golden Age sees their security and tactical division left to rot and I feel like it started to be seen with a degree of stigma as a "necessary evil", despite it being an essential and practical department and skill set to have and keep developing against threats. The Dominion forced Starfleet to dust off all the old MACO books and start re-learning the skills they'd forgotten, and even then, I feel like there was likely uneven success in catching up due to how hard they got rolled over, and I don't think it was a technological gap, cause we do seem them go head to head with Dominion ships on pretty decent if not quite even footing...the failure IMO was in doctrine and training.

[@ArchOfWinter]

I imagine if MACOs was reinstated during the Dominion Wars, it would be dominated by Andorian. Andorians are the more militants of the founding members. If they kept the Andorian Imperial Guards up as an actual fighting force rather than something ceremonial, they probably would be training everyone else while learning historic tactics from other worlds.

[@shauntempley9757]

MACOs were disbanded in the Khitomer Accords, as a bottom line to the Klingon Empire signing up to them, since they were pivotal in battling the Klingons. In Kirk's time the MACOs were an elite soldier fighting force when operating in black ops missions. They were never kept around after Khitomer, because they would not work well with fighting the Romulans; they were much more likely to use subterfuge, sabotage and assassination to gain control, than full on invasion, because of how strong the Vulcans, Andorians and Tellerites always were when the Federation were first formed. Once Earth gained parity with the other three in technology, a full on conflict was not an option for anyone, unless you are the Borg, Undine, Dominion or Iconians, which were far more advanced technologically in the case of the Borg, Undine and Iconians, or had a vastly faster replacement rate in the case of the Dominion.

[@XalenMaru]

I wish the MACOs had been around for the Dominion War. Would have made for some great story telling.

[@bipolarminddroppings]

I think if Enterprise had been around before DS9 we might have seen them "re-initiate" the MACO program during times of war, such as the Dominion War. But, alas, DS9 finished before Enterprise began...

[@TheNoiseySpectator]

You both seem sure they weren't. Ask Jake Cisco if he ever met any while he was stranded in a planet with his father and Chief O'brien during a Dominion assault.

[@vic5015]

Didn't the DS9 eoiside The Siege of AR-559 make a passing reference to "Federation marines" at the end?

[@shanenolan5625]

I think they were . Federation had ground forces in the klingon and dominion wars . We see them . Thry had marines on enterprise during kirks day . As shipboard security. In star trek 6 . The actor thst played odo . Played a colonel. The cnc and the chief of operators had him present a rescue plan fir kirk and McCoy.

[@hornet370]

yea MACO would’ve fit well with the war aspect of DS9

[@Stormcrow_1]

Considering how often Star fleet conducts boardings, is boarded and goes on combat away missions. They really should have MACO.

[@joshuahillerup4290]

They have security officers and whatnot trained in that, but unless the Federation is in a huge war like the Dominion War there's not enough of those actions to warrant people who specialize in only that on a typical starship

[@ssgsorrels]

​@@joshuahillerup4290I mean, even small towns have at least 1 swat team. It feels like having at least 1 QRF squad on each ship wouldn't be too hard

[@joshuahillerup4290]

@@ssgsorrels in the US maybe small towns do, but the Federation is explicitly not a dystopian hellscape

[@richardmh1987]

Starfleet makes awful decisions based on insisting they´re a peaceful organization. And yeah, you can´t go around with heavily armed ships full of soldiers/marines and pretend you´re only peacefully exploring. But Starfleet is not akin to a coast guard, they´re akin to a blue sea navy, there is a reason why lots of real navies have marines even if they haven´t used them in battles at all.

[@joshuahillerup4290]

@@richardmh1987 the examples we have of Starfleet making bad decisions are when they think too much like a modern military, not when they're acting too peacefully

[@JaredLS10]

Federation Marines are mentioned in dialogue in the DS9 episode Walts, The Defiant between missions is searching for Captain Sisko but are short on time because they are going to be need to escort a convoy of Federation Marines.

[@RRW359]

Marines can just be a general term for shipboard troops whether or not they are a separate branch. That combined with the abstractness of the UT means any starfleet personnel assigned to board a ship or repel borders instantly becomes a Marine for the duration of the mission.

[@nsr-ints]

Perhaps marines aren't a seperate branch, but actually a spec-ops/commando qualification. Like how security personnels are conventional police, and marines are the SWAT units.

[@JohannVF]

The old FASA RPG (and maybe some of the early TOS novels) had Starfleet Marines.

[@theindooroutdoorsman]

M.A.C.O. would would made a huge difference at several points throughout the Federations history. The Klingon-Federation war and the Dominion War come to mind.

[@ODST_Parker]

Nice, one of my favorite parts of Starfleet history. Always wondered what happened to the idea of having an onboard detachment of marines on starships, especially since it's seen often in other science fiction properties like Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica. I guess Star Trek was never seen as being a military fiction, so it wasn't ordered the same way, but it was still a professional navy arm of the UFP, and threats are all too common. As we very often see, they can be too much for a ship's security team, not to mention splitting them up if ground action is necessary. Enterprise introducing specially trained soldiers stationed on Starfleet ships was a stroke of genius, and I loved everything from their uniforms and weapons to their organization and demeanor. These are marines, for all intents and purposes. There as a safeguard to handle everything the galaxy can throw at them, and anything they may need to be thrown at. Seeing them rescue the Captain, take on the Xindi, and constantly put their lives on the line for their ship and crew, it was always a highlight of the final two seasons for me. I'm glad STO kept their legacy going, albeit not as the Starfleet naval infantry they once were, but rather as a joint task force built from all Federation members. Specifically brought into frontline service once more to fight the resurgence of the Borg. Once again, being thrown at the galaxy's biggest boogiemen, and coming out on top.

[@bipolarminddroppings]

I think the idea of having true soldiers in Starfleet just went against the ethos Gene wanted for the 23rd & 24th century. Starfleet is first and foremost about exploration, after all. The military style ranks, which I think Gene used mostly because it's more familiar than the rank structure on civilian ships, and the fact that he wanted there to be a throughline from our real NASA to Starfleet (NASA astronauts were originally drawn from the military), I think it actually makes sense the way Enterprise brought in the MACO's and then we slowly see them phased out as Humanity advances.

[@ODST_Parker]

@@bipolarminddroppings But I bet they all wish MACO was still around when they first encounter the Borg, or the Dominion. Starfleet Security is constantly getting their ass handed to them, Gene's vision or not, and you can't solve every problem with technobabble, clever engineering, scientific breakthroughs, or an inspiring speech. No, sometimes you just have to shoot the problem until it's not a problem. The thing that's always been strange to me is that Kirk and Picard did that plenty or times. Sure, it wasn't a professional military force that did it, but violence was in fact the answer, many times. So I guess I just never quite understood Gene's lack of soldiers in his ideal future, as if all soldiers do is go out and kill stuff, and we can't have that in our ideal future.

[@rmeddy]

Nice run down, A Mass Effect style MACO game in the Archer/Romulan war era is not a bad idea

[@boneyold]

In Undiscovered Country there’s the colonel (René Auberjonois ) who gives the briefing on the rescue mission for Kirk. Could be the branch of Starfleet that was MACO’s former role that then became redundant after late 23rd Century. Since rescue op seems to fit with their skill sets and unique rank seen only once in canon from what I can remember

[@Solo-_-..]

Always thought.. they should carry ballistic weapons also.. aliens might be immune to particle type weapons

[@Me.......]

We saw what Picard was able to do to a Borg with a Tommy gun and what Worf was able to do with a Mek'leth.

[@tiagopatricio3805]

YES! If they existed in the aftermath of Picard's first (second) contact with the borg, that is one of the adaptations I would definitely expect from them... Bringing back the equivalent of the M-16 and of the AK-45 from the 22th century to fight the borg...

[@johnsteiner3417]

There's no immunity to extremely high energy. That much heat suddenly injected into tissues, causing flash fires and ablation is a matter of physics not genetics.

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

Can confirm, zepheram cochranes shotgun is the best weapon I’ve ever got in sto

[@humzaibrahim2953]

Like the transporting bullet gun

[@tiagopatricio3805]

Thank you for answering!! Since Enterprise I've always had the same doubt, whar the hell happened to the M.A.C.O. Squad??? And then I start imagining how would they adapt to fight the BORG, The Undine and so many others...

[@dariustiapula]

Fun fact: In the Khitomer accords. MACOs were one of the weapons banned alongside suspace weapons and other weapons of mass destruction.:v

[@bipolarminddroppings]

That's how badass the MACOs were, they're considered as deadly as a nuke.

[@Longslide7]

“A ship without Marines is like a garment without buttons.” - David Dixon Porter, Admiral USN

[@uss_04]

MACO was one of the best things enterprise had it going for it

[@Max_Flashheart]

Based on how often Ships are boarded or away teams need rescuing I think it would become standard practice to have a permanent Royal Marine Commando style contingent on board most larger ships.

[@forestwells5820]

For some confused by what he mean with ranks; The Navy has a different rank system than the other branches. "Captain" in the Army is the same as "Lieutenant" in the Navy. The "0-3"/"0-6" is the rank grade in each system. "0-1" is the first officer rank, while "0-6" is the last rank before you start getting stars for Admiral/General. An Army "Captain" is "0-3", where as the same title in the Navy is "0-6". Why they are separate like that? Beyond tradition, I really don't know.

[@billeickman]

The military can be a pretty sweet gig for a lot of people, but remember it can be ten to one or more for support to combat personnel. I could see a lot of troops, airmen, and marines doing much the same day to day job in Starfleet.

[@silentmoniker]

A great video on an often overlooked subject of Trek lore.

[@quasar8898]

The ST RPG by FASA games included Marines- sort of. Marines were mentioned, uniform drawings existed and an entire type of vessel- the Frigate, existed just to carry and land Marines. Beaming Marines onto hostile ships was an integral part of FASA space combat. Sadle, the company closed before completing any Marine specific rules.

[@kineuhansen8629]

would not mind more pre federation history like the ships that served the united earth starfleet

[@asgaiyawaya3973]

In DS9, although they were never directly addressed, Marine divisions were clearly seen in several episodes. It gave the impression that a professional military did exist it was just called upon when needed. Kinda like a militia if that comparison makes sense. For those only familiar with the media term, a militia is established through a levy meaning a government body of some kind sees that we need soldiers even if it's on a part time basis made up of able-bodied men able to fight. Of course like I said it was never directly addressed so it's entirely possible they always existed just called up when needed this possibility seemed to be the case in an episode of Voyager when Tom Paris talked about how Earth still had a Naval Patrol implying that some kind of committed Armed Force that was either a separate entity from Starfleet or it served as an Armed Auxiliary to Starfleet that gets called in when a war is declared possibly set up with a Naval, Air, and Ground Force with Starfleet as it's Space Arm. Although that makes it sound like Starfleet is more akin to the Coast Guard which would make it more likely that the reverse is true and Starfleet, although more focus is given to them, is made part of the military during a time of Armed Conflict. For diehard Star Trek fans that may seem insulting but think about it in terms of storytelling, if the main character is a soldier let's say, and for accuracy's sake let's say in a science fiction setting, does that mean the Navy and Air Force don't exist? See my point? So, I never read the novels so i admit I maybe reading too much into this, but I am just stating what makes sense to me and feel free to disagree if you think the military being Militia like is truer to canon. I will even be generous and grant you that hologram technology means that Hologram Gunny Ermey is turning Starfleet personal into mean green Marines when the need arrives making military unnecessary. My opinion is that the argument can go in either direction with both sides having valid arguments. With all this being stated I would like to see a Star Trek series that focused more on this idea and showed how UFP military differed from Starfleet. If it had it's own Space Force, yeah Trump term but who honestly cares at this point, off world bases or even ships that were Combat oriented vs their Starfleet counterparts. This is all assuming UFP military is actually or ever was a thing. Like I said it's only hinted at but never really acknowledged.

[@iwyt3995]

11:22 - 11:30 - Then there was also the 'Ground Troops' from DS9's _Nor The Battle To The Strong_ and _The Siege of AR-558_ who I guess _could count_ as a reinstatement of the M.A.C.O's under times of great duress?

[@iwyt3995]

11:22 - 11:30 Yea uh, the *_H a z a r d T e a m_* from the _Star Trek: Elite Force_ games just called and would like a word with you! In all seriousness though, I've always been a fan of the Hazard Team and would *_love_* to see them canonized properly! I love that _Star Trek Online_ literally gives you the more or less *correct* armor pieces to make a pretty darn accurate Hazard Team crew so at least that game _somewhat_ acknowledges their existence!

[@watchthe1369]

Tactical Branch= MACO legacy. Yar, Warf, and similarly combat and security oriented officers.

[@francisdhomer5910]

The one thing I felt Star Trek needed was MACO on ships. Just like our navy (Correct me if I'm wrong) MACO handed threats groundside and outside in space. Security took care of the ships security and low level threats on landing party missions. Shipboard combat and ground base combat are two different types of action. Security would also be aware of ways around the ship without going through the main corridors. MACO may know some. Remembers we are talking ST univers where travel time can be only weeks at the most. Back when we first had Marines they had long periods of time onboard so there was lots of time to learn your ship. Babylon Five (No not a franchise war) Had security and combat pilots. The same with Battlestar Galactica. TOS may have had no choice but due to budget did things the way they did. In Enterprise I think they did good at showing some of the tension between the two division.

[@matthewgreenwood4286]

They were my favorite part of Enterprise. They made sense and probably still do. Look at how many times we watched one of the shows and security was completely inapt. Given the right tools in training, could you imagine if some Herodian try to board a ship that had a detachment on board

[@uss_04]

Always found the name and icon for MACO kinda weird for a spaceship. Gave me Seaquest DSV vibes + Space Sharks

[@hanshawks5088]

I like Space seals

[@numberyellow]

What's weird about it? MACOs were primarily stationed on planets...so space was not a consideration when designing the emblem. Additionally, a MAKO is a type of shark, which is what's on their patch. It's like saying that the Tomcat patch is weird for having a cartoon cat on it.

[@Parocha]

@@numberyellowis it not Mako? (The shark name)

[@numberyellow]

@@Parocha indeed, it is (i shall edit my original post to reflect this). However, despite the slightly different spelling, pronunciation is the same.

[@forickgrimaldus8301]

Carcaradons

[@steelgreyed]

There is a fascinating historical comparison that you missed out on. The USMC Marines shared a history with the M.A.C.O.'s and I feel the ST creation was a homage to them. A group of dedicated fighting men, many who "just happened to be" on a Naval Vessel of a completely different branch of the Military for most of their career, not to mention fighting integration "into" the Navy the whole way. Yet through shared suffering, the Navy and Marines are more closely nit than any other branch, even the Air Force who directly competes with the Marines for Air Power budgets, or the Army.... Who forever begrudge the Marines for the want of better gear. It was also a neat political move. The Marines can be deployed without Congress approval, not so much the Navy. But as a transport, this giant fleet of warships is just here to take pictures, sitting in international waters, while the Marines go and do their thing. It was just be so bad if we had to defend ourselves. :) Which is a tactic I still see Starfleet using... Or at least their Captains.

[@mac1701a]

Would be nice to see a series based on a 'hazard team'

[@RRW359]

In terms of the "Captain doesn't equal Captain" thing I'd assume something similar happened to what happened in SG1. Generally Colonels were made into Starship Captains despite the fact that the USAF has a rank of Captain several levels below it; they were incorporated so that the ranks resembled their former ranks as closely as possible regardless of what they were called beforehand.

[@Terror-sk9nj]

Eh... There are 3 types of Captain. Regular Captain Army, Marine, Air Force etc. These generally lead about 150 personnel. Navy Captain is indeed several ranks higher and leads depending on service type anywhere from 1000 to 6000 personnel. The final type of Captain is not a rank but a title and is given to anyone who is in command of a commissioned ship in a navy or merchant marine, so big ships not a sailor on a rowboat. On a ship a there can by tradition (UK I think) only be 1 Captain any other person ranked Captain is given a kind of fake promotion to another rank i.e. Major or Commodore. Starship Captains are the title kind of Captain would be my guess.

[@numberyellow]

@@Terror-sk9nj This does, more or less, check out.. There was an episode of DS9, where (Lieutenant) Dax was in command of the Defiant, and O'Brien reminds her that whoever is in command, is called "Captain", despite the rank on their collar. Of course, most starship commanders have the actual rank of Captain, but being an actual ranked Captain doesn't seem to be entirely necessary to command a ship in Starfleet.

[@zuzoscorner]

I enjoyed your breakdown of this. always enjoed Enterprise and Star trek online story arcs

[@Dan19870]

Thanks for this entry. Taking a huge temporal leap to the Dominion War and specifically the Siege of AR-558, which organization did the ground troops come from? I seriously doubt a ship would land it's security detachment and leave them there for an extended and indeterminable duration during the middle of a brutal war. As the idea for a Starfleet Marine Corps. fell through I wonder if member worlds stepped up to establish what would be know as the 'United Federation of Planets Marine Corps.' or simply know as The Federation Marines.

[@kitfo18]

Would love to see a story line with the MACO still existing but only under section 31 or something like that . Existing but being like above top secret and doing all kinds of crazy stuff that Star fleet wants to be able to say they knew nothing about made up of a mix of alien races and all.

[@carloshenriquezimmer7543]

The section 31 may be one of the branches that emerged after the MACO's dispersal/assimilation. Military inteligence seems to be a reasonable choice of new career for an experienced combat veteran.

[@kitfo18]

@@carloshenriquezimmer7543 Yeah thats why I noted them. I'm sure if any Star Fleet division needs teams of ground combat or infiltration experts that no one else needs to know about it would be section 31.

[@dswrabkln4900]

Please, no more Section 31 bullshit lol. It runs directly contrary to all the ideals of Star Trek, and makes the Federation look like a banana republic. You're telling me that there's not only a fascistic secret society that routinely attempts genocide buried in the Federation, but that they have their own military now? And STILL nobody has ever uncovered their existence, because they're just so edgy and cool and secret and wear black suits you guise!!! The fucking cringe....

[@occamsrazor1285]

8:49 The Navy is a military service branch (the Navy is military) But yes, a Capt in the Marine Corp, Space Force, Air Force or Army is not the same as a Captain in the Navy of Coast Guard. They just have similar titles. Ranks work on paygrades, with a Captain in the former (Marines, Air Force etc) having a paygrade of O-3 and an Captain in the Navy or Coast Guard is an O-6 (and O-6 in the former is a Colonel)

[@ehandley1045]

Star Trek does make me strongly believe in this idea that modern Military organisations should have more than just the purpose of combat I don’t know what it’s like being in the military but starfleet makes me believe the military could achieve so much if they were also tasked with role of science and exploration but then be able to called into action to defend countries I could imagine that wars would be pretty unique if you gave scientists a gun

[@generichardson4771]

Ric I'd be willing to say the MACOs where starfleet marines military assault command could easily have been called marine assault command just a thought.... keep up the great work

[@LMG1792]

Loved the MACOs in ENT

[@proffurrypaws]

No mention of the iconography of the MACO organization that carried over with the merger into the Federation Starfleet? While the MACO mission patch on Earth Starfleet ships did indeed feature a shark, the organizations primary insignia was that of a tall-pointed star. When the Federation Starfleet was formed, it utilized the Earth Starfleet delta, but also retained the MACO star to further designate command personnel within its militaristic hierarchy. Starfleet Command itself is properly identified by the fleet delta with an inset tall-pointed star. Red Squad cadets also use a logo that featured the tall-pointed star more prominently over the delta, to indicate their elite status.

[@davidponseigo8811]

A Army Captain is equal to a Navy Lieutenant and a Navy Captain is equal to a Army Colonel , A Army Major is equal to a Navy Commander. So yes even in the US military it can get confusing and there are other confusing ranks.

[@davidponseigo8811]

I meant to say a Army Major is equal to a Navy Lt. Commander and a Army Lt. Colonel is equal to a Navy Commander.

[@jacara1981]

@@davidponseigo8811 fun fact, Congress/Executive branch has tried no less than 100 times to standardize the ranks across all armed services, however each time they fail to get to even the Bill stage lol

[@scarling9367]

​@@jacara1981Let's wait and see if they can standardize uniforms, first. Not sure why they all went with completely different camo patterns for each branch.

[@TheRezro]

Regard why Starfleet was dissolved, it make sense. Earth forces were technically least advanced then other founding members, who focus on own types of missions. While Earth was basically broke after the war and couldn't offer much. It is why they invest all cash in development of joint Federation Starfleet and start building new advanced Bonaventure class ships. With Vulcan Warp 7 engines. What I suspect was specifically allowed to rid of Archer Drives, what despite being only Warp 5, due to hack solutions have tendency of breaching into subspace aka temporal shenanigans (look Franklin, Old Bonaventure/Ceres, Columbia and Enterprise itself). Anyway, because Earth was designing ships with all parts of founding members and core Starfleet design was extremely universal and flexible. It from 2190's was pick as standard design of Federation and old fleets also dissolved. What lead to so called "Kelvin Era" design, based on Bonaventure class hulls. At least until fateful encounter with Klingons, what reveal weakens of civilian design of Starfleet and lead to interesting case of refitting old Earth warships, due to they exceptionally tough hulls (due to ustaliliby and vibrations of Archer Drive, though Vulcan Drives were installed instead, with maybe some legacy parts in Enterprise impulse engine). Yorktown class hull was used during construction of Einstein and Newton class, with Federation using experience for construction even larger Walker and Proxima class. While old Poseidon class hulls were reused probably for Strider class. When it also serve as inspiration for similar in look Anton class, later in utility variant known as Miranda. When Loknar class Destroyers were based on Columbia class hulls. What later evolved in the Constitution class (or Exeter aka Class J) as it is unclear dude to Discovery messing up with size. It is unclear is Retconie is Umbra class with numbers transferred from Constitution or Constitution with numbers transferred from Exeter? Or Constitution is just umbrela term for the whole family? Anyway to resolve conflict I assume that later Decatur class is the smaller hull variant, when Enterprise class is the larger based on Walker hull instead NX.

[@johnsteiner3417]

Navy captains are an O-6 rank [colonel equivalent] and captains of all other service branches are an O-3.

[@JessRenee91481]

Army/Marine Captain is an O-3 or Lieutenant in the Navy. A Navy Captain is an O-6 or full bird Colonel in Army/Marines/Air Force They would just transfer over in their rank equivalent. But rank is more than a chain of command. It's a reflection of the size of unit you are leading. So, a Lieutenant might lead a PT boat, a lt. Commander captaining a Frigate, Commanders destroyers, and Captains Cruisers and Carriers.

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

I believe the fate of MACO is what US marines worst nightmare is... Becoming forgotten and at best adhoc units in the navy/army.

[@carloshenriquezimmer7543]

Impossible. THE MARINES ARE DIFFERENT

[@Z0N1C38]

You mentioned captain in other branches, vs navy. You are correct. O-3 is captain in the army, marines, and air forces. Navy and coast guard is O-6. O-3 for the Navy is full Lieutenant. And O-6 in the other branches is equal to a bird colonel

[@davidvangerner7241]

I wonder what happened to the villains of the star trek enterprise episode named north star could you make a video on it

[@steelgreyed]

My father was a Captain in the Air Force for quite some time. His favorite thing to do was to visit Naval ships as part of his job. 3:)

[@tristankawatsuma8962]

If I was ever asked to write a Canon Star Trek Story, I think it would probably be set in the Earth-Romulan War. It’s just such an untouched time period. One idea would be for the story to follow the first Section 31 Starship as it deploys behind enemy lines and causes havoc for the Romulan Star Empire while secretly being the first humans to ever see an actual Romulan, something Section 31 keeps quiet about. Alternatively though, I would like to also write a story about a MACO unit assigned to a Starfleet ship and fighting Romulans across the stars. Though I do have to admit a classic war story seems a bit antithetical to Star Trek. Even modern Star Trek shows which are darker than everything between TOS and Enterprise always have some philosophy, science, and technology take center stage even in stories set in wars.

[@skywise001]

Gene Roddenberry was VERY opposed to exactly this sort of force being in Star Fleet. I share his views.

[@TheNoiseySpectator]

1:47 that could be a window to blend the continuity of Star Trek and the "Aliens" movies. 😏

[@el_covfefe]

Looking back it would have been cool to see the MACO on DS9 or the Defiant built by the MACO division

[@enisra_bowman]

if you go back to TOS and watch how often a Redshirt get's grilled for the sake of showing how urgent an situation is, they really should have thought about "security for boarding and away missions", particular since Star Trek startet as Naval Literature like Hornblower or Aubrey a thing that Babylon 5 handled better when they got boarded and they also only had been Station security and not Marines, but they are somewhat in a Similar postion like the Enterprise, only stationary but they are a trading and diplomatic one, not a Battlestation like a Golan in Star Wars

[@Jeff-cn9up]

The fact that there are no "Starfleet Marines" is just Gene Roddenberry being an idiot. The game Elite Force and the sequel was a good start. A force of armored and geared-up marines would have been super useful in a lot of the various series' episodes, rather than just getting some random crew with a hand phaser.

[@markfreeman4727]

while of questionable Cannonicity, i think the way starfleet treated Voyagers Hazard team is probably how they looked at the MACO's as well

[@frankm.2850]

The MACOS were one of the very small handful of good contributions made to Trek lore by ENT imho. Kind of annoyed we haven't seen them pop up again.

[@cleverkitsune4302]

Someone didnt watch the jj movies

[@jenniferstewarts4851]

Ok the best way of looking at this is to compare to "real life" military. For the navy, the navy for the most part has its general sailors... who aren't really combat trained... they might have basic rifle combat, and some basic hand to hand... but the only people worse trained then them in combat is the air force. Now the navy does have some "special" security personal, shore police, and navy seals but seals are not actually even "combat units". they are more scouts, meant to land, scout beaches, do recon, designate targets, then withdraw. For actual combat, the US Navy, will ask for detachments of Marines. These people train ONLY for combat, not as sailors per say... they are combat first and formost. even a marine pilot trains in ground combat with the statement that... without their planes they are just another ground troop so they have to train like it. In truth the MACO's SHOULD be marines... trained in shuttle piloting and shuttle combat. Ground Combat, boarding actions, assaults and such. Maco engineers should be combat engineers trained in destructive use of equipment. Maco medics would be combat field medics... With this they really should be a different branch then Star Fleet. operating under the United Earth then the Federation... being deployed by starefleet ships but operating with their own training and command structure.

[@brianbrenner4245]

I would like to see the M.A.C.O’s come back in Star Trek series, even IN SNW with the up coming conflict with the Gorn.

[@ElvisPresleyTouchedMe]

Bugged me about the MACOS. In ST Beyond, the Franklin was the first Warp 4 vessel. Given to its captain as reward for his service in the MACOS during the Xindi War. Earth’s first warp 4 ship…given to a veteran of the Xindi War…after the MACOs were disbanded…after MACOs fought in the Xindi War on Earth’s first warp FIVE vessel. Feel like I’m going mad coz have seen no one else mention this. Kelvin timeline doesn’t count, that split was later.

[@JayStrang1]

The ship was a warp prototype that predated the launch of the NX-01, but was refitted for full service during the Romulan War, being granted to Balthazar Edison and his crew after the war and the formation of the UFP. Presumably it was created by another design team during the same basic period that the NX-Delta and NX-01 were in development by Archer's Warp 5 project. We know that the Delta hit warp 3, and the Enterprise broke warp 5, but the show never actually established a ship that managed to maintain warp 4. So it served its purpose as a design testbed, then was likely mothballed until every available ship was needed to face the Romulans. I assume it still only has a warp 4 engine because the overall design makes replacing it too difficult and a newer drive would probably require an altogether larger engineering section.

[@ElvisPresleyTouchedMe]

@@JayStrang1 Thaaaaaaaank you. This has been bugging me for so long. Just checked with Memory Alpha and it seems there’s a lot of inconsistencies regarding the dates of the Franklin & the NX-01’s launches, but yeah, your explanation is definitely a possibility. Writers could’ve saved us all a lot of bother by just saying it was the first warp 6 ship 🙄

[@samsignorelli]

US Navy/Coast Guard officer ranks, bottom to top: Ensign/Lieutenant Jr Grade/Lieutenant/Lieutenant Commander/Commander/Captain/Rear Admiral Lower Half/Rear Admiral Upper Half/Vice Admiral/Admiral Air Force/Space Force/Army/Marines officer ranks, bottom to top: 2nd Lieutenant/1st Lieutenant/Captain/Major/Lieutenant Colonel/Colonel/Brigadier General/Major General/Lieutenant General/General And to add more confusion....an RAF Group Captain is the same a a Navy Captain/AF/SF/Army/Marine Colonel

[@Tone034]

How to join online?

[@paulgrattan3885]

As I understand it in STO the MACOs were reinstated in the wake of the Dominion War and Borg attack. In the war Starfleet was simply outmatched by the Jem'Hadar in ground operations. Sending security officers that are simply glirified mall cops against trained soldiers which resulted in unacceptable casualties and mental breakdowns. Relying on the Klingons or Romulan marines to do your ground work showed a weakness in Starfleet an area they were clearly weak in. It may struggle to defend Federation citizens if they came under ground attack. So the FED council approved its recreation even coming back as an entirely new branch of Starfleet. I believe their colour to donate their branch is navy blue. Meaning it was an entirely new career path for officers. Some cadets are going to the academy to become MACOs a professional soldier not a regular officer. I believe from the in game lore the stories they like to do online the current head of MACO in 2410 is an Andorian admiral.

[@davidponseigo8811]

I always thought the MACO's were ButtHoles but I served with Army Rangers and knew a few Navy Seals and my Father was one of the founding members of the 1st Air Force Air Commandos and they were all Butts so I guess nothing changes. I'm just picking at my father though God rest him.

[@jacara1981]

Yes but when the sh!t hits the fan I would still want one of those people standing by my side.

[@AdamantLightLP]

gotta be hard to deal with the stress of combat/command

[@ManabiLT]

@@AdamantLightLP That may play a role, but most of it's just the type of person who goes into that type of military. The whole personality type tends towards being jerks. That's not to criticize their roles in military ops, but the fact is many of them are a real pain in the ass to interact with, even years after they're out of the service.

[@edwardsimpson119]

Few people know that Starfleet had a division specializing in interstellar collision and repair, the MAACOs.

[@Buddy74656]

If they got absorbed into Starfleet they might have been the main contributors to Starfleet ground forces like those seen on Ajilon Prime in the Federation-Klingon War of the 2370's.

[@kingpin7666]

There should be a Maco team on every ship. The federation dropped the ball on this aspect.

[@casbot71]

Starfleet should have just renamed them "diplomat escorts" or ... *"Protectors."* Something nice and non threatening.

[@stevendubin3584]

on the subject of Major Hayes - i strongly suspect that he was actually at the rank of Captain (O-3) as he was assigned a team that is at best a squad size detachment. This really only needs a NCO but since its an independant shipboard detachment will have an Officer in command. Normally i would expect it to be a lieutenant but with the nature of the nx-01's mission and the expected independance from higher command a Marine O-3 Captain would be more appropriate and would have more experience than a junior officer in his first or second tour ( see Lt Gorman in Aliens for an example). However, in keeping with naval traditions about only one captain on a ship, marine officers in the rank of captain have traditionally either been given an informal promotion to major ( in speech and in custom but not actual rank or pay ) or sometimes called force commander instead of their actual rank by the naval personnel. So with that in mind i expect that is what happened with Maj Hayes. It also explains the dynamics of the interactions between Lt Reid and Maj Hayes despite the difference in ranks because they were really equivalent in actual rank. Had Maj Hayes actually been a O-4 Major he would have had the equivalent to the naval rank of Lt Commander and would have clearly outranked Lt Reid, and the onscreen rivalry and fighting between them would have been impossible as Lt Reid would simply have been charged with insubordination to a senior officer. What is actually missing in the MACO detachment on enterprise is the lack of a 2IC - either a junior officer as XO or a senior NCO ( gunnery or staff sergeant or some similar rank ) or both. The next senior MACO to Maj Hayes is a Sergeant ( not specified as anything else ) and then a Corporal and then Privates/Specialists/soldiers. While it is possible that the MACO's simplified the enlisted rank structure and eliminated a lot of the various NCO ranks there is no apparent senior nco who would have been older ( probably older than Maj Hayes ) with long time in service. The detachment probably also needed to be larger than the apparent 6 tp 8 MACO's that were seen although detachment size was probably decided by available berthing and life support available on enterprise at the time and not by military organizational structure or needs.

[@numberyellow]

Or, he really was a Major. As to the rest, you seem to be forgetting that MACO and Starfleet were two entirely separate entitles, and two entirely different chains of command. If you were to take a present-day Army Major, and a Navy Lieutenant, and put them together, yes, what you said would apply, because at the end of the day, they are both members of the United States Armed Services, and ultimately answer to the Joint Chiefs and the President. Yes, they are also different chains of command, but they are part of the same American Military. MACO is UE Military, and Starfleet is a civilian scientific outfit. it'd be a bit like a detachment of present-day U.S. Marines, being assigned to a civilian cargo ship, or expeditionary vessel, for protection. They're not running the ship, and they don't outrank any member of that ship's crew.

[@georgefrankly]

who needs a whole military division when All it takes to win a minor war is a Hazard Team with a few pocket transporter buffers?

[@austinm5630]

I would love to actually see a Vulcan warship at some point. The only models I've seen are the D'Kyr, the Tal'Kyr, the Sh'vhal, and the T'Pau, none of which could be classified as warships even though multiple D'Kyrs took part in combat in ENT. If the Vulcans really do keep their exploration and war fleets separate, I guess this means they design their ships for both but assign each ship to either combat or scientific operations? Seems more logical that the Vulcans would build some ships specifically for combat of that is their intended use.

[@STSWB5SG1FAN]

That lone soldier Jake Sisko met in "Nor the Battle to the Strong" and that lone officer with the single band across his chest ("The Siege of AR588"), weren't they MACO's?

[@DavisJ-ln6fw]

No

[@STSWB5SG1FAN]

@@DavisJ-ln6fw Why not?

[@devildog1989]

So long as there are ships engaged in ship to ship combat there will always be a need for forces specifically trained in boarding and seizing of ships. Further, when you have to land on planets and establish beachheads you need a force specifically training in such ops. A Starfleet Marine Corps should absolutely be a canon thing and they should feature prominently where applicable.

[@bipolarminddroppings]

That's what Starfleet security and tactical divisions are for. During peace time, the federation has no need for assault forces, they are an exploration organisation. There are military organisations within the Federation, they don't need their own when it so clearly goes against their founding ethos.

[@devildog1989]

@bipolarminddroppings there's a saying, failing to prepare is preparing to fail. The USMC and the Royal Marines aren't ALWAYS NEEDED. However, both nations have had enough experience to know that just because you're not currently fighting doesn't mean you won't fight again. The US NAVY has the masters at arms responsible for security, "law enforcement," and immediate ship defense, however, they are not trained in everything a US MARINE is trained for. Starfleet Security are the MAs and the MACOs are the Marines obviously. Which would you rather have securing a facility to save you if you were being held by the Xindi, a mildly better trained cop or a purpose trained warfighter with the expertise to get you out safely?

[@jameslevy8347]

I hope they'll do a story about Red Squad getting disbanded

[@bluedotdinosaur]

Security operations are an area where the Federation really falls apart and strains credulity. It's never been realistic that an interstellar peacekeeping and support force like Starfleet would just throw regular "sailors" out and expect them to do the job of soldiers. It doesn't help that due to plot reasons, onboard security specialists are so often portrayed as inadequately equipped and supported to be effective. (Hostile boarding parties gotta take over the ship every time.) One could argue that the Dominion War should force Starfleet to consider they're underequipped to deal with such realities. But Strange New Worlds has decided to portray the Klingon War just like the Dominion War - regular enlisted non-combat persons being handed a phaser and thrown into meat grinders. So now we have a Federation that didn't learn anything over the course of a century. What could help solve the issue, if the goal is to preserve the Federation's ideal as a non-expansionist, philosophically benign polity, would be combat automation. The existence of very capable DOT service robots has been retconned into the history of Starfleet. Given the Federation's slant of addressing challenges with science and technology, it would be thematic if they preferred to use robotics to avoid putting living beings in harm's way, as far as face-to-face security and war are concerned.

[@Zagoreni02A]

If MACOs existed during the Federation history, there would be less boardings from alien speices, less casulties in crews. Ship security simply is not up to the task that MACO can do. It was biggest mistake to remove them. Sure Starfleet may be exploration organization primary, but it is also military arm of Federation, you need unit capable of fighting something that security cant.

[@EGRJ]

I don't play STO, and I've spent 20 minutes looking through the wiki. What armor/gear is your character wearing in the video?

[@CertifiablyIngame]

A mix and match of various pieces to simulate a MACO style look. You can get a MACO outfit, but that requires a very long time to get or real money so I put together some pieces from engineering and tactical addons that are unlocked by default.

[@EGRJ]

@@CertifiablyIngame Got it. Thanks. I saw the 'official' MACO look, and I think the dude in the video looks better, honestly.

[@formwiz7096]

So who are the guys in the tan shirts, the ones in Arena and Balance Of Terror? Presumably, the Federation's army.

[@clintmatthews3500]

The idea that Starfleet isn’t a military has always been silly. Now granted I’m just a civilian, but to me it has all the trappings and functions of a military. The only difference I see is that apparently one can walk away from one’s Starfleet commission at any time?

[@deputychiefclifton]

Grand Admiral = General of the Armies/ Grand Marshal Fleet Admiral = General of the Army / Marshal Admiral = General Vice Admiral = Lieutenant General Rear Admiral = Major General Commodore = Brigadier General Fleet Captain (Honorary) = No equivalent. Naval Captain = Colonel Commander = Lt Colonel Lt Commander = Major Lieutenant Senior Grade = Captain Lieutenant Junior Grade = First Lieutenant

[@timo191]

I always found it weird because who fought in all the other Starfleet wars (Klingon Tzencethi, Dominion etc)? Like the troops who defended that Dominion com array. were they just pulled off a ship or part of a ground unit?

[@bipolarminddroppings]

You're over thinking a fictional show. At no point did anyone writing ask "Does this make sense within the larger Star Trek universe?" or "is this realistic?" because they are just trying to write a compelling story that is self-consistent within that episode or arc of episodes. Trying to make sense of it is pointless.

[@timo191]

@@bipolarminddroppings That's what this YT channel does. It pieces together topics using canon and non-canon sources. It's not about overthinking. It's about going into something I enjoy a bit deeper.

[@chrisbingley]

I like to think that the real reason behind the Khitomer Accords was to give the UFP and Starfleet a form of infantry. After all, if you want boots on the ground or boarding parties, what could be better than a bunch of Klingons?

[@Maniac536]

Do the Hazard Team!

[@AdmiralJT]

Basic security seems to be terrible... They need 🦈🦈 In my space... Thing... I have have atleast a few Jermarian Marines on my ships. Theres ship security but the marines are the true combat teams. They back up security, they keep away teams safe. They are basically the special forces units. Same name but different from the standard military forces.

[@BishopBrow]

First time I saw the MACO put their boots to an enemy I was thinking this is what starfleet should have been rather than the lack luster fighters they are ground fighting wise.

[@milkcookies7753]

I fart in jars and send them to my boss he thinks It's Jimmy from the tech department

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

Just wish that Starfleet have kept the M.A.C.O.s as their special operations forces.

[@redrob6026]

Hope you're doing alright Rick. Rob

[@casbot71]

A interesting alternate timeline - what if Augments won the Eugenics war?

[@IdioticTrolling]

Other commenters are correct. You don’t need dedicated ground pounder when you’re supposed to be an exploration organization with no hostile intent. Not only that, but when you can just drop rocks on a planet until they give up, it’s kinda pointless landing ground troops. Large scale galactic wars required ships and crew. You can have the largest ground force in the universe and you would still lose. Spies, saboteurs, sleepers agents, etc. Yes. Actual ground troops? No. Also, if you really need ground troops, Starfleet security can handle it and they have. Like any large organization, I am sure that Starfleet itself has black ops, off the book organization, hidden prisons, etc, etc, etc. Just like today’s civilizations, sometimes, you have to bend the rules to its breaking point to do what you need to do to make sure your civilization survive. We know that’s what the Federation did throughout the shows, like NCC-53847. I am sure that wasn’t the only time the Federation bent a rule or two.

[@jacara1981]

Borg threat, Dominion war, attack on Mars and so on. Starfleet needs a hyper specialized division for things like these. The Federation may want to be peaceful, for other powers don't. Create Peace with your words, but carry a big stick just in case.

[@Fenris77]

This unit really got shafted by the peaceniks...

[@davidrohde2636]

That was Edison in the Kelvin timeline. We don't know what happened to him in the prime timeline.

[@o.s.h6768]

Rick, How do feel about maco? I feel that the federation made a major mistake about disbanding this organization. Space is dangerous and I feel that starfleet officers cant handle combating threats and protecting federation worlds. The federation needs to resemble what we are doing right now in the militaries of the world. I feel that if maco where in the dominion war , we would of beaten back .

[@DavisJ-ln6fw]

There was no reason to keep them there is nothing the MACO can bring that Starfleet doesn't already have

[@ericmadsen7470]

What if M.A.C.O. survived well into the 23rd and 24th century? What would the organization look like?

[@JohannVF]

So does the Earth Starfleet/UE Military still exist, by the time Kirk or Picard are running around? Kinda doubt the Andorians would disband the Imperial Guard.

[@DavisJ-ln6fw]

They became a local defense force

[@shanenolan5625]

But starfleet got a federation council seat . And joint commander and chief positions with the federation president

[@hanshawks5088]

The Federation should have mandatory military service with 150 plants if each gave a million troops that would be 150 million 😮😮😮

[@stevencorrell6473]

I never understood why Star Fleet would have disbanded the MACOs it would have been better to keep them small maybe an isolated unit on each ship just incase things go sideways which if they were so smart they would have planned better for.....if you ask me the policy to basically cut most of your defense before going into space seemed more like early Star Fleet was going out of their way to make sure humans as a species failed at exploring space.

[@feralprocessor9853]

So this UFP's answer to the marines of Halo?

[@johnsteiner3417]

I am ever amused at Star Trek weapons having no serious sights and few with optics.

[@SwellSteven]

Aren’t the eugenics wars and the third world war the same thing?

[@DavisJ-ln6fw]

No

[@lasarith2]

From the limited knowledge I know about it - no there two separate events. The Eugenics was Khan and the third world war was changed lore wise to be between late 2020s -to 2040s )

[@Mr00Ted]

I figured the MACOs used a Geneva Checklist on the romulans, so they had to disband them to avoid reminding the Andorians how much freaky stuff they do