Märklin vs Liliput - Let's compare!

[@Kapparie]

Interesting video, as always, thanks a lot.😀 25:00 This part at the front is the dynamo driven by steam of course. 🙂 I was always a bit disappointed about the fact the Märklin 3099 didn't have the wheelbrakes modelled and the visability of the large black gears at one side. But I remember that the model included a driver and stoker. This was illustrated on page 14-15 of the 1977 catalog, which as a kid I found very intersting. 🙂

[@The3rdRail]

Thanks for the info!

[@modelspoor1962]

Hi, that ‘thing’ behind the smokestack is the alternator for the electricity in the loco. Oh, and many thanks for the video. Very nice!

[@The3rdRail]

Thanks for the info! Glad you liked the video.

[@ingoprasse989]

As always, your videos are informative, engaging and full of love and positive emotions for the Märklin brand. It brings a lot of joy. Thank you!

[@The3rdRail]

Thanks a lot, glad you enjoyed it.

[@kellypaws]

@@ingoprasse989 Well put. They are excellent videos. Despite another KZbinr being held up as a gold standard in reviews, the 3rd rail is considerably more even handed and conscientious in the detail.

[@fernlenker]

@@kellypaws OH YES it is ! =)

[@CM-he8ni]

Fascinating and always intrigued how you get all the history of the item you are exhibiting 😊

[@The3rdRail]

I probably have too much time on my hands... 😀

[@hz7984]

Again, fun and interesting at the same time. Thank you!

[@The3rdRail]

Glad you enjoyed it.

[@gordonholtshausen4383]

Excellent and informative video as usual, thank you.

[@The3rdRail]

Glad you enjoyed it, thanks a lot!

[@MMK96]

thanks for this interesting comparison of different concepts. 3099 remains one of my favorite machines, and not just for nostalgic reasons! ... and now someone (found on yt) is even offering 3D printed parts to equip these old locomotives with brake imitations for the drive wheels and the front bogie. maybe I'll give it a try!

[@The3rdRail]

The P8 is one of favourites too. Thanks for the visit.

[@lindaoffenbach]

Interesting comparison. We've seen some Liliput models, vintage and contemporary. Their quality usually is well good actually. Compared to M both do indeed have their pros and cons. M's internal engineering at the time was at a significant higher intricate level and precision perhaps, but somehow L's 5-pole motor does compensate to some degree, although internals being a bit rudimentary. Externally both have their own things, but somehow we tend leaning towards M but not by all that much tbh. However, M's running characteristics seem to be much more solid. Thank for this lovely upload again 🙂

[@The3rdRail]

Hello Linda, thanks for sharing! Until next time...

[@roguico]

Very enlightening, I love your videos. Regards.

[@The3rdRail]

So nice of you

[@allyncooke4286]

Love the history lessons. I am a Marklin analogue collector from 1952-1982

[@The3rdRail]

cool, welcome on board.

[@Davidstrains2056]

I wasn't expecting the locomotives to be BR 38s, but still, great video!

[@The3rdRail]

Thanks for spending some of your valuable time here today.

[@22763344]

Interesante comparación, solo que al final omiten decir que el motor y transmisión de 5 polos, más silencioso que ese..."molinillo de café" Marklin, 😃 pero, tampoco se le puede pedir mucho a un motor de 5 polos, alma abierta. Ese sistema de motor del filme, ya en los 80s tenía mejoras con los Can Motor, pero en Europa era mucho pedir. Gracias por subir.

[@The3rdRail]

I had to leave something for people to comment on :) THe 5-pole in the video is only quieter at very low speed, otherwise, the noise level is not much different, just a slighly quieter type of coffee grinder. Thanks for the visit!

[@kellypaws]

Another lovely video. I'd agree that it's a tough one to split. I would say the plastic tender chassis might be able to be bent back to the correct profile with very hot water, or a hair dryer. But it would need some perpendicular strengthening to hold it in profile.

[@The3rdRail]

or some time in the oven 😀 Glad you enjoyed the video.

[@christophetardivat234]

Great video! i am lucky to have two 3rail liliput version of the br 38, one is the scnf version 230-F-317 and one is po midi 230-715 grau-schwarz, both with liliput carriages, alsace lorraine 1-2-3 kl + van and po midi 1-2 kl, 2nd kl, 3 kl and van. They add a bit of frenchness to the layout!

[@The3rdRail]

a bit of frenchness is always good 😉

[@ivovanzon164]

The big tank on the tender is for the gas lamps. If you look closely at the pictures without the tank you can see the power cable and the different lamp design

[@The3rdRail]

thanks for the info!

[@raymondleggs5508]

The American style Version was primarily sold under the Life-like Brand, oddly life-like attempted to sell Lima South African prototype trains under their name.

[@The3rdRail]

interesting...

[@PAULHOLLAND-f6h]

Another well researched and presented video. I do have an off topic question… I recently purchased a 3005 loco on e bay…too cheap not to….however when following your recommended service which I perform on all new purchases I found when replacing the traction tires this loco did not have a shoulder bolt locating the drive linkages, but rather a ‘c’ clip?? This did not cause an issue [bit fiddle as it is tiny/] but I have not seen this on any other locomotive?? Any ideas??

[@The3rdRail]

Thanks! I don't know about the C clip I am afraid.

[@PAULHOLLAND-f6h]

⁠@@The3rdRail. Thanks, I will posed the question on a Marklin on line forum.

[@mizar65cs]

well .. the bending of the chassis of tender I thought was my view error but after you pointed it was huge: talking about the engine and gears, the locomotor behavior up and down the hill is a clear evidence of the difference between the worm gear and the Märklin one. The tiny Lilliput engine has less torque than the Märklin one due to the rotor construction (dimensions) and how it's placed inside the chassis: the Märklin one is in line with gears and wheels but the Lilliput is perpendicular: those 2 reason (90° and dimension) force to use a worm gear because it transfers more torque despite the increased friction due to the specific design: it's evident on downhill that instead of running away (as Märklin does) it has an intermittent speed due to the backslash and the gears frictions: the engine try to maintain the speed but the gear friction on the wheel slow it down till both "speeds" are even, let me say. I personally prefer the Märklin approach but if you have a long convoy the run away can be a disaster. Thanks a lot and keep going ! Your videos are a mine of gold always

[@The3rdRail]

I would have said the liliput performs the same as Märklin uphill. Transformer settings are the same, load is the same, the locos both slow down. The Liliput is slower because of the gearing. The worm gear behaviour downhill and stopping is probably the reason why marklin waited such a long time to introduce them, they are now a common thing on modern marklin engines and less of a problem thanks to motor regulation on decoders and digital braking modules.Thanks for the visit, glad you find the channel interesting.

[@fernlenker]

thank you ! D you have a Dampfspeicherlok ? greetings from germany

[@The3rdRail]

thanks for the visit. I don't have any fireless locomotive.

[@fernlenker]

@@The3rdRail Hello! in this wild world I love! your calm voice explaining so good with so much background knowledge! Thank you! OH yes please get one ;) i would like so much to herar about what it is used for ! I came over to that, find an photo where one is standing in front of the Zuckerfabrik, where my grandpa once worked. Sad that i never ask him to show me how Zucker was made in germany that days... he never asked me :( so now i got an märklin Set 26504 H0 with T6980 that worked für Henkel that made Persil =) it has four axles on the picture that one had only three... so i searched and found Liliput 103000 seems to have the same color as show on the photo BUT it is just DC please press you thumbs, that i will get it to drive on my märklin AC rails =) as younger i did not like those Lokomotives without Schornstein =) but now, i think for some works it makes sense? All the best whishes to you and your family! Greetings from a great FAN =) ) sincerly yours Stefan

[@The3rdRail]

@@fernlenker 🙏🙏🙏

[@fernlenker]

@@The3rdRail this hand-pink-waving means? you will panit something pink? why can i do not do this image?

[@fernlenker]

@@The3rdRail 🙏 OH here it copy s the picture? But what does it mean?

[@forrestrobin2712]

Excellent ! I’m currently working on a Hornby Dublo 3-rail layout. As I write this, a Dublo pacific 46245 "City of London" is running in the background. Originally 2-rail model (the 3-rail version was "City of Liverpool), I have converted it to 3-rail using a Marklin skate, it runs beautifully . I’m looking forward to finding my first Marklin locomotive, though I’ll have to set it up to run on 12V DC. My dream is to find one of those big German 2-10-0 locomotives. What would you recommend ?

[@The3rdRail]

Assuming your question is about models: Pre 1990s MArklin gives you 2 choices, the Class 44 or the class 50, both 2-10-0. They should work on 12 V DC with no modification on dublo 3 rail but with no ability to use remote controlled reversing. Well, that is if I am not mistaken in my assumption that dublo 3 rail is using the same isolation principle between the center rail and the track bed as Märklin. Early versions of the BR 44, for example model number 3027, have a manual lever for the reversing unit, should you want to avoid modifying the loco. The lever is located on one side of the boiler, on the footplate. The following model 3047 no longer has a manual reversing function. The other option is the BR 50, model number 3084, and later iterations (3315, and european versions 3314, 3316, 3319 for example, there were more). Same story for 12V operation, and these were released from the 1970s onwards with remote reversing functionality only. If you were using digital, any current Märklin model is fitted with decoders that can operate using DCC in addition to Märklin MFX and Märklin Motorola. Have a look at the model train directory on www.modelrailroadcollector.wiki, where a search BR50 or BR44 should throw quite a few results. If you go down the modification route, don't throw the reversing unit away, either keep it in the box with the model, and the next guy will appreciate it, or send to me please 😉. Thanks for the visit!

[@forrestrobin2712]

@ thanks for the reply. I believe it’s possible either to replace the coil with a permanent magnet or add some diodes to the coil. I’ll probably do a first test with a cheap 0-6-0T (BR89) before trying something more ambitious ! Dublo track seems to work OK with Marklin track, though some of the Dublo pickups object to stud contact - notably my Bristol Castle and LMS 8F 2-8-0 which have plunger pickups for the centre rail under the tender. They really need a continuous third rail (as on older Marklin track.

[@The3rdRail]

CoilS, there are 2 on a Märklin universal motor, check my video about reversing units (part 1), where I go over the working principles. I think you'll need to replace the windings with what is known as a HAMO magnet. It might be helpful to find a cheap hamo locomotive (which are all 2-rail conversions of Marklin models, with isolated wheelsets and permanent magnet), and simply replicate the set-up you'll find in there. You might even be able to fit a pickup shoe to one of those because most of the time the screw hole for the orignal marklin version is still there... Basically, one side of the motor needs to be connected to the chassis, the other to the pick-up shoe.You can also buy what marklin calls a high efficency propulsion kit, which contains a 5 pole armature and permanent magnet, there are several references to convert most older märklin locomotives. So many choices....

[@The3rdRail]

some of my 2-10-0s in action: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZOsaXasmZ6Vo80 or kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZSXhX9rYpl1nJY

[@mountainmanpedro]

Great video. I have the Marklin model with a missing screw in the dome, and the spares I have ordered all are the incorrect size despite my and my dealers' best effort. If you have the ability to identify that screw by size or number, I would appreciate it.

[@The3rdRail]

I'll try and remember to check this for you. Thanks for the visit!

[@mountainmanpedro]

@The3rdRail thanks. I removed it 40 years ago and filled and painted the hole in the body in my younger-selve's pursuit of realism! I had read Berndt Schmidt's book Marklin Bahn mitt Pfiff, and set about it with what I could find around the house!

[@The3rdRail]

i think it is the same screw as for the Marklin 3000

[@allyncooke4286]

Do you have any problems when running tender back I have found sometimes that the MArklin 3099 mounts the point frog and derails.

[@The3rdRail]

no such problem with mine.

[@allyncooke4286]

That was very interesting especially the performance on grades. I have a 3% and 4% grade on my layout and the marklin locos just make it under auto control but need a bit more when using manual, control. I wonder how they would have performed with the original tinplate coaches as opposed to the plastic coaches. Say a consist of 4 tinplate that's the max I can use before it slows the locos down. In fact 3048 Steam loco 1 pacific needs a doubleheader on my grades

[@The3rdRail]

You'll see my 3048 in action with tinplate coaches here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZSXhX9rYpl1nJY, the 3099 performs well with a long rake of 4002/4003/4004/4005; with 24cm tinplate, my guess would 4 with interior lighting, 5 without.

[@raymondleggs5508]

Rare to see one without Zinkpest

[@The3rdRail]

which one?

[@raymondleggs5508]

@@The3rdRail Liliput

[@finlayfraser9952]

Hello Third Rail, I have always been taken by Marklin trains, especially their steam locos. But the 3 rail track always make them look toy like, aka Lionel, and prevents any serious attempt at a scale layout. But at least Lionel avoid the exaggerated track bed.

[@The3rdRail]

That's off topic... But for your information Marklin has been making another track system since the 1970s called K-track, with no track bed, for people who wanted to be more prototypical. The m-track was engineered in the toy days and made to be disassembled frequently. Whether to live with the sight of center contacts or not is down to anyone's taste and I wouldn't call any attempt to use K-track for scale modelling unserious. Modelling always involves a compromise somewhere, whatever the level.

[@The3rdRail]

Some examples of "serious scale modelling" from a few youtubers, using marklin track systems. There may be plenty of centre contacts on show, but the scenery is so good that you quickly forget about them. Using the "unserious" M-track (what i use in my videos), from Marklinofsweden: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKHIZmShjLhrbbcsi=Dxtttht7CpnbQCgs Using the less "unserious" K-track from Haltepunkt Auwiesen: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXrHYZmhaKh8iLMsi=aj2VTXNt47xSBH4l There is also the Miniatur Wunderland in Hamburg of course, where a lot of K-track is used.