Mac guy thinks he has a chance: dotnet challenge

[@АндрейБогословский-л3й]

JetBrains Rider would be a good choice

[@casperes0912]

Alex upgraded his editing. I like it. You're getting pretty great at YouTubing :) - You were always entertaining and charismatic but you've really gotten good at the more technical learned skill aspects of video making. All power to you, man. Appreciate your humour and developer focused testing. Been watching you since M1 Air :)

[@aphaynes1964]

you also have Jetbrains Rider - Which I use for my MacBook and Ubuntu workstation.

[@bsgamer5069]

I am a junior dot net developer form japan. I really enjoy your contents. And thank you for providing source code for free.

[@thewalabee1414]

i have started to dabble in using my M1 MB Air as a development environment, in large part, due to your fantastic videos. Thanks!

[@shoobidyboop8634]

I was rooting for Alex, so imagine my surprise when the other guy won.

[@carlosdelvalle5417]

Actually, I’m quite happy with the last release of VS 2022 for Mac 😊

[@bhar92]

Video production is craaaaazy good

[@josephizang6187]

Your content is invaluable to me. I am a dotnet dev & I do react also. I will be buying a new system soon and you have allayed my doubts about the mac being my main daily driver. Thanks.

[@moriz111]

It was unfair compression. Don’t draw your conclusions on that.

[@josephizang6187]

@@mythbuster6126 You just said it. I am a .NET dev but I do web and webapis. I have never been asked to do desktop dev. And I agree with you on this point. Rider is the way to dev .NET on the MacOSX. The alternatives are just not good enough. I think you can even do xamarin development for both android and ios on mac with Rider? I might be wrong.

[@EzDoesntExist]

Nah I use mac for .net dev and don’t think I will back to Windows soon (unless my employer forces me). Rider is giant IDE and thousand times lighter and faster than vs 2019. This guy is just has 0 experience with mac setup, making things looks a bit dramatic.

[@akin242002]

@@josephizang6187 I know this is months later, but it probably isn't worth it to change to a M1 MacBook Pro. Dell XPS 17 is very high performing and very close to M1 MacBook Pro 16, especially when using Ubuntu 20.04 sub OS. The only way I can see it being a significant benefit is for other reasons. Example: Runs a heavy Apple ecosystem (iPhone, Apple TV, Adobe user, and Apple TV user). Under those conditions it is worthwhile. Otherwise you would have to change up a lot for marginal benefits.

[@GostreOko]

@@akin242002 I'm thinking about buying m1 Max. XPS 17 is the model I take into account also. For me a battery life is very significant so I think m1 will be better but issues with dev environment and slower performance stop me. Hard choice (

[@final378]

I recently got a MBP for my personal machine and I'm curious as to why it seems like no one uses Visual studio for Mac. Even my colleagues with MacBooks seem to always gravitate towards Rider or VS Code.

[@EzDoesntExist]

It’s fine for developing apis but man it’s more text editor than an ide

[@IgnoreSolutions]

VS for Mac crashes a lot. It also will just randomly stop showing Intellisense suggestions if you keep it open for too long, and it’s actually slower than VS Code right now. I was doing Unity dev and just had to stop using it Luckily, they’re working on an update that’s tailored for speed and a native UI, so this may change when that update comes out

[@ajdisekprimoz241]

as a linux user ai have that choice as well but i defenetly go for vscode

[@johan_hansson]

I know you already mentioned Rider, but it would have given you a unified workflow for both Windows and Mac that's equally powerful to VS. This comes from someone that's been using (and like) VS since the 90s but switched to rider a few years ago. Just sayin.. :)

[@markus1586]

Finally someone showing the full picture and not only the "okay, I did the setup, now lets go". Keep up the great work :)

[@bandito241]

Wait wait. The only difference between both is the glasses. Both are wearing similar wrinkled shirts 😂

[@AZisk]

all three are wearing wrinkles

[@ramialkaro]

Next level of video shooting 👏

[@GratuityMedia]

👌thanks for the opportunity

[@cverde1234]

A few years ago, a colleague of mine used to use windows visual studio on mac via parallels. It worked really well on his intel macbook. I wonder if it is still as seamless today on apple silicon.

[@chrishbeatboxing2291]

I think the error at 8:25 is that you have to manually set ur dotnet path. Since dotnet 3.1 is in a different path than dotnet 6.0 and the extension uses 3.1.

[@daviyen]

I use Telerik MVC on a legacy win forms app I inherited. Using Visual Studio on Windows is a pain as I'm using old hardware and I've wanted to transition to core on M1 and your video has proven that it is possible to build and there seems to be a significant speed gain because too much of my time is spent waiting on the old windows laptop to build. I wonder if Ryder would be fast too, maybe easier to deal with?

[@hamzarashid7579]

The video editing is amazing

[@frankzehlius8915]

Good video as allways, but how long would the Apple M1 part have taken without the VS Code detour?

[@johnmacnab]

I really liked this video--fun format and great comparison. I've been working with Blazor a lot recently and have been using a Windows computer with Visual Studio, but I also have a Mac and never thought to try using it. I'm going to give it a shot now. Thanks for the great content!

[@AZisk]

blazor is pretty impressive tech. i enjoy working with it quite a bit

[@AZisk]

@David - congrats you won the Telerik ASP.NET Core UI lib! Get in touch with me via email please.

[@johnmacnab]

@@AZisk Really? Cool. I'll do that.

[@johnmacnab]

Hey Alex, this is David. I'm super thrilled to have won this.

[@spicynoodle7419]

Ay, gotta love those Visual Studio ergonomics of waiting 4 seconds to open a project. For reference, OS boots in 6 seconds.

[@andrewgrant788]

This is more Visual Studio for Windows vs Visual Studio Code (which is pretty much the same on Windows, Linux and MacOS). If you are comparing Windows to Mac, it would be more interesting to use the same IDE/Editor (VS Code or Rider or perhaps VS for Windows and VS for Mac).

[@barmalini]

I was waiting for them to start fighting at one point

[@carlcodes8422]

Really good video, thanks Alex

[@jacklwipa1187]

The background music was therapeutic

[@sunilk8013]

I''m curious about all the git changes. Can you comment on how many files got changed. Also I didn't see the git changes on the visual studio for windows side, did it show the large number of changes also?

[@Extinctconcept]

Great video as always! I’ve used telerik kendo for react at work and enjoyed using it. It as interesting to see the folders and packages getting put into the projects root like that. Now if only Microsoft would give the Mac version of visual studio some more support. It’s unfortunate not having the azure deployment utilities. Does apple silicon allow for using the x86-64 version of windows and visual studio though parallels just to setup the project? If possible I’m also curious about the performance hit going though Parallels and Rosetta 2 it doesn’t seem ideal but I could see when it might be needed.

[@Sebastian198910]

I work as a .NET developer since 2008. And to this day, I prefer .NET development over any other "kind" of development. Espacially js crap can get the f out of my way. However, today, I prefer working on my Apple Silicon Mac through Rider. It's by far the best experience to work with .NET projects (except Windows projects ofc, I use parallels or my Windows system for that). Visual Studio on Windows is a huge big great IDE, however Microsoft keeps breaking stuff with each update and it consumes so much ressources. Working with Rider at least removes on Microsoft part form my toolchain if I already have to deal with 1000 of bugs on their Frameworks (espacially Xamarin.Forms / MAUI). Even tho Visual Studio for Mac is a bad joke, there is still Visual Studio Code or, as said, Rider.

[@michaelkhalsa]

Yeah, I have used the .Net framework since it was in beta, and of course Visual Studio - and I really like .Net. I love Visual Studio, except that they seem to be breaking it a lot more now, particularly after the switch to 64 bit (which should have been done years ago). In the early days, there were many bugs in the framework (as with any new framework). Now the framework is rock solid, or at least known, but the IDE is meant to be like the rock which everything stands on. Microsoft has of late been a little shaky in this area, and hopefully a passing phase. I think there are many performance optimizations in VS now with race conditions that can result in unstable configurations, requiring manual fixing in various VS files (both in the project and in the install). Basically, the developer base are becoming beta testers. I used to always upgrade to the latest (incremental) updates of VS, but have stopped doing that. The reality is that at least for how I use it, Windows is required. By the way, I find windows a more productive platform than the Mac - I like them both, but Windows is the workhorse. With that said - when I retire, it will be with a MacBook.

[@ricky8046]

Nothing beats development on Windows with Visual Studio. I'm still very impressed you could get everything done on a Mac with VS Code. It just takes more steps.

[@jwbonnett]

It doesn't take more steps though... VS Code yes, but developing on Mac doesn't have to take more steps. And I wouldn't say Windows beats Mac or that Mac beats Windows...

[@AbNomal621]

@@jwbonnett actually, for most project Jetbrains Rider is a MUCH better experience.

[@ajdisekprimoz241]

as someone who uses linux as his only operating system im here stuck(is stuck even the right word, i guess aboard i better term) in simular boat, i used to use windows and visual studio honestly nowdays i if i have to use windows i tend to use vscode as well in combination with dotnet CLI it absolutly flawless and better then windows and vs experiance.

[@ajdisekprimoz241]

@@AbNomal621 not a fan of rider specialy when thinking its paid software

[@AbNomal621]

@@ajdisekprimoz241 I have no sympathy for people “stuck” for what appears to me as being “cheap.” I don’t have an issue with paying people for tools that allow me to make what I do. One can choose to develop with all free tools on all platforms. The tools are a mechanism to save time. The truth is that all C# development lands in simple text files and the compiler is free.

[@trevorhanson3489]

Great content, glad to see mac has come a long way in terms of .Net development. I personally daily drive .Net on Apple Silicon and haven't ran into any conflicts that don't have a work around. Goodluck to all in the giveaway!

[@user-tt6nc6mo7k]

I need to give VS for Mac a go.

[@samuniv987]

vs for mac seems way better in 2022 than before. can you do a video comparing the difference between vs in Mac and windows.

[@authentictr8807]

Is there a other free option I can check out, that seemed cool

[@saikrishnatbijil]

Hey by the way nice editing. grate, keep it up

[@erranbahadurbk]

How to make such video? Plz reply!

[@reyzinquerodotINC]

Nice video brotber and i learn a lot on your channel. Thank you.

[@AmaroAmaral]

This video made me laugh :). Love your work! Thks!

[@francute2u]

I love doing dotnet core on mac however there's only one downside if you're using angular as your front end. There's no Nswag studio or any equivalent code generation tool that is easy to use and works perfectly. That is why I cant give up my windows machine yet.

[@mokanin8894]

I develop Angular for 3 years now. Never had to use Nswag. Never heard of it.

[@francute2u]

@@mokanin8894 Have several projects and coding objects, models and http endpoint and other observable service on angular is a waste of time. Why code objects and endpoints in the backend and frontend twice? When there’s a code generation tool for that.

[@seantyler7140]

I look forward to each of your post. I have had a similar experience as you did when trying to use VS Code with “pure” .Net add-ons.

[@WilliamDecker]

Love it! Great video!

[@mzg147]

Great content, I need more spicy youtube C# action! React has so much more channels like this 😭

[@TechSense]

You content keeps improving. You deserve a million subs

[@gbonariva]

Come on bird, I'm working here... that was hilarious!

[@greg_289]

Awesome video! Would be interesting to know what was causing it to splurge all those folders into the root when it added the package on Mac 🤔

[@TheElgaard]

Really enjoyed the video! Would love to see a video about you doing a review on Visual Studio 2022 for Mac and compare it to Visual Studio 2022 for Windows.

[@Elduque40]

Iol, I think you needed to manually point VS Code to the .net binary in settings.

[@darkogelevski2222]

Great video but as a .net dev my self i aint switching to mac anytime soon :D, i do love the progress done on MAC do

[@kaustubhshrivastava3169]

can you check if the chrome on the m1 MacBook air is going to fullscreen of is it only move to fullscreen with tab bar can you make a video to fix it if the problem is on your device as well

[@NuggetsInclusive]

i would like to see a new version of this

[@TheJoseUrena]

What is fun to me, is that you needed to use the Windows + VStudio project version to debug and correct the Mac + VSCode version... for me, all that you showed gives that Windows machine a big win

[@BennettYip]

The error of template wizard installation process shows that it requires .NET Core 3.1. That is not a Mac issue.

[@GostreOko]

Net core 3.1 doesn't support apple silicon as executable in dev environment

[@Fozzedout]

I'm stoked for the MAUI to be integrated in the next visual studio for Mac... Then I can be shut from Windows forever! 😄

[@Bugbiee]

I recently moved from windows to mac and had many issues with visual studio for mac and found it lacking many necessary features. It was only when I switched to rider did I feel like the switch to mac was worth it.

[@whoknows3679]

The winner as VSCODE 😎

[@aaryanmakwana515]

what about using parallels or UTM in mac? does it work better or good enough to just not get a windows laptop and stick with MacBook?

[@dadthelad]

Just curious. Is there any .Net development that is impossible to do on M1 Macs?

[@JoseAsync]

WPF

[@ianluyten1210]

WinForms, if you're that unlucky

[@michaelkhalsa]

@@ianluyten1210 WinForms while dated, is great!, and really fast to develop in, like as fast as you can type - particularly for large projects. Particularly if you develop a library to streamline common patterns, and do a proper separation of concerns. You can also mix and match WinForms and WPF. The only difficult part of using it was writing a class to properly scale controls for various monitor DPI's / or use WPF. You can also embed Chromium and use that for a UI in parts of win form projects Not saying I would do any new development in it (primarily because of cross platform reasons). Have you tried it? There is a very large base of WinForm apps.

[@ianluyten1210]

@@michaelkhalsa trust me, I've got that T-shirt ;-) I programmed in VB6 Forms back in the day when .NET did not exist yet ... I know the pain (and yes, I'm that old) I have to admit though that WinForms was a relief after VB6 Forms ..

[@michaelkhalsa]

@@ianluyten1210 Yes, I agree! Bringing back (just for a moment) memories of VbScript, 1.4Mb floppies, Cobol and Fortran on punch cards, running emulators on Vax 750's, PDP-11 terminals for the first internet stations, using the first prototypes of a new fangled thing called a mouse, along with 300dpi rasters on a large plotter that would take 8 hours of compute time on a PDP-10 mainframe (how funds were moved between depts), wiring up experimental ethernet cables, and flashing machine code onto eproms before the day of ms-dos. Kind of like how one could drop an engine from a VW onto a milk crate and fix it without anything fancy.

[@tsalVlog]

I develop for android and ios both; I'm considering getting into desktop development and dotnet really does have some of the best kit for that. Xcode is nice, but you're forced into the Apple paradigm for most UI work.

[@wynegs.rhuntar8859]

Wiiii! You have sponsor(s) now!!!

[@AZisk]

yep - first sponsor on the channel

[@nikopol1009]

Like your windows twin kind of a real life experience. Hahaha also nice videos.

[@psianipar]

i love your content man. cheers

[@popocaca_35p]

Very interesting comparing video, hope can do more PC vs Mac workflow

[@ola-raji-1]

I'll just put the glasses away so they're not in my way 😂

[@jb4047]

Been living on visual studio code, if I touch any ide it breaks my work flow

[@mehsmehmeh]

I'm pretty sure Mac guy and Windows guy are the same actor

[@andrewzuo86]

"I've got Visual Studio for Mac." 🤣 Sure you do. Sure you do.

[@jingzheshan]

Mac version visual studio is so hard to use, key bindings, style, those utilities like Azure publish… really hope the Microsoft team could put some attention on it

[@brooped]

Haven't used it, but hard or just different? Are you a Mac user? Would it be hard for a Mac user, or is it just "hard" for you because you are a Windows user? The ergonomics in the two systems in general are quite different, and user expectations may be wildly different.

[@jingzheshan]

@@brooped I was a life time window user and have been using visual studio for over ten years in windows, in some perspective it makes things harder for me :) but in last few months I am doing all .net core development in Mac with Rider, one main reason is due to the lack of the key binding setup capability for Mac VS.

[@hero3616]

It’ll prolly die since Miguel De Icaza left Microsoft

[@jingzheshan]

​@@hero3616 yea, I think you are right. Project Volterra, fingers cross

[@ScottGrunwald]

JetBrains, don't forget JetBrains ;)

[@husamburhandev]

Thank you Alex.

[@oligreenfield1537]

I'm on mac at home and there is no question for me when I want to do serious .net programming I'm on a windows + wsl. There is too much hoop to jump on mac. The ultimate pain point in mac it's the debugging backward step to step doesn't work just for that it's a big no no

[@primarchlogarius]

I love sibling rivalry

[@musicbomber]

I’ve been developing on the Mac for a few years now but I still sometimes miss VS for windows. The dev experience for some workloads has no match in macOS. Unfortunately, vs for Mac still has a long way to go

[@metaltyphoon]

Perfect example why you should get comfortable with the dotnet CLI and not rely on UI only.

[@HowToLinux]

could you please add linux into that challenge? but i think it should be similar to MacOs

[@jwbonnett]

I develop regularly on both platforms and I must say I am not a fan of VSCode for .NET, Rider is far superior for intellisense! But both platforms are just as good as the other in one aspect or another!

[@nfaical3]

Thanks 🙏

[@bmccrayusa]

Very interesting, please more Content showing Apple vs PC workflow.

[@CRBarchager]

Very nice video.

[@briancase6180]

Mmm.... Nugat. Soft and chewy and sweet. ☺️ Delicious! 😋

[@stal1963]

Hmmmh, I am not really surprised about .NET Core performance on Apple Silicon, since an IDE gets boosted by all the benefits of the M1 … chip. When it comes to tree maps I totally aggree. We all have built a lot of complex components that only provide a small set of functionality with respect to the efforts needed to build them. Thus, commercial component libraries are a big deal. However, it might not be always that easy to combine components from different vendors.

[@dashko_dmytro]

Try Rider IDE, it's cross platform.

[@AZisk]

i did. it’s great!

[@Wfmike]

The answer is, for a lot of people. Rider.

[@stefancfefo]

Great video as always!

[@akin242002]

Just go with the laptop 💻 that works best for the programming language if someone is a professional. M1 MacBook Pro: - Java - Javascript - C - Swift - Unix - AWS (cloud) Windows PC: - C# - Kotlin - Typescript - Powershell - C++ - Azure (cloud) Neutral to all laptops: - Python - PHP - Golang - Rust - Carbon

[@AsifAlli]

Windows FTW, PC Master Race. But I love my M1

[@kenvererer]

I'm curious about the real-world web assembly experience.

[@AZisk]

my only exposure to it is via Blazor and I liked the experience it get there. i built an app for a client in Blazor and it was fun. however, performance is a bit below avg i’d say, but not anything you’d notice from regular use

[@kenvererer]

@@AZisk Give them some time to optimize web assembly a bit. In theory it should be faster.

[@michaelkhalsa]

@@kenvererer I built a relatively small project a while ago (with some complex requirements) in Blazor to try it out, and liked it - but seemed 'not quite ready' for prime time, and a touch slow. I agree, web assembly is the future (for many reasons). Everything gets faster. In earlier days we would go to lengths to optimize code that give much smaller cost/time benefits now - and there is a whole generation of developers who no longer understand, or care about, the performance costs behind different ways of doing things. Compilers have gotten really smart at picking up patterns and optimizations, new vms can be fired up automatically for load requirements, and internet speeds are getting really fast for most of us.

[@zapoutix]

The most interesting things in this video is the compile time. We cannot imagine how many hours wasted in compile time. especially on large projects.

[@JV-fb6rw]

Great videos! Keep it up!

[@Andreas-gh6is]

The point is Dotnet developer ergonomics is behind most major competitors anyway. So it doesn't really matter if you use Windows or Mac to develop on dotnet, you should ditch it for virtually anything else if you have the chance. If you don't have the chance, you have my sympathy!

[@ajdisekprimoz241]

i do dotnet and c# as a hobby and i dont use any other operating system but linux and gotta say visual studio code is awsome paired with dotnet cli and docker i can basicly do anything. at and up to 17:10 with the mac guy who cant even use dotnet CLI.

[@coffeefaves]

Clark Kent vs Superman

[@matthewblott]

I could tell you from painful experience VS Code doesn't play well with C# development. There's a theory Microsoft purposely makes the experience crap so it can still sell VS licenses! (I use Rider anyway.)

[@pxnchx93]

There's VS Community Edition tho

[@lomakovich47]

Man, why you are not using rider in m1 mac?

[@woolfel]

it's great more tools are getting apple silicon versions released. If only pytorch supported apple silicon GPU, that would be nice

[@theencryptedpartition4633]

Damnnn Alex, you having multiple personalities? Are you Mr.Robot?

[@AZisk]

😂

[@Brutar1]

So if you know how to get Telerik working under macOS you have no problem ;) Great video.

[@AniketSomwanshi-ll7mz]

Bro what the fuck was that folder structure LOOOOLLLL

[@MarkMenardTNY]

If I just did .Net I’d use windows on a PC. But .Net on the Mac plus the Mac environment, iOS development, and for me personally a great ruby environment argues for the Mac. For me the Mac wins.

[@AZisk]

i know what you mean

[@mickinchina_5254]

Love it good job

[@moriz111]

I understand it was fun video but was not fair comparison. macOS developer was newb!

[@AZisk]

😂