Mac Studio Ultra vs MacBook Pro M1Pro - Maxed Out ProTools Session

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[@BuenoLaidley]

Both Single Core and Multi Core performance are important. But the Single Core is more important than the Multi Core. All DAWs use one core per track to do processing, so it depends on what you are comparing. There are four possible scenarios: 1. CPU A and B have the same Single Core performance, but CPU B has a higher Multi Core performance. They will be able to do the same amount of processing per track, but CPU B will the able to run more tracks in the project. 2. CPU A has a higher Single and Multi Core performance than CPU B. So CPU A will be able to do more processing per track, and also be able to run more tracks in the project. 3. CPU A has a higher Single Core performance than CPU B, but has a lower Multi Core performance. So CPU A will be able to do more processing per track, but CPU B will the able to run more tracks in the project. 4. CPU A has a lower Single Core Single Core performance than CPU B, but has a higher Multi Core performance. So CPU B will be able to do more processing per track, but CPU A will the able to run more tracks in the project.

[@emanuel_soundtrack]

simple as this! i wonder if most youtubers still have brain on this matter, of cost any film composer will go to the maxed version if he can

[@jessestuart5756]

not the case. I can load down a single track in logic with 10 plugins on high oversampling settings. these are plugins that mimic the behavior of analog hardware. The entire circuit design is modeled etc. Logic will clearly fill up one core and then when it needs more it just piles on the additional needs to a second core. It then fills up a second core, and then a third and, a fourth etc. it doesn't matter if it's one track or many. In logic with film scoring projects, hundreds of tracks worth of sampler instruments, with 32 stereo busses feeding record tracks, along with fx.... if it were really one track per core, you'd only get 20 tracks per M1ULTRA! CPUs and software are way more sophisticated than they were last century. Did you notice that his session in the video showed a relatively even distribution of data across about 8 or 20 cores, depending on the computer? His session had a lot more than 20 tracks. It was about 32, with an additional 12 or so busses for fx sends, headphone sends, etc. Those sends have aux input tracks, which makes it more like 48 tracks. It played back fine even though the computer had only 20 cores. It is not one track per thread. I disagree with him when he thinks that there will be no difference between a mac M1 max and an m1 ultra. the ULTRA is about 2.5 times more CPU than an M1pro (just shy of 24,000 multi-core vs about 10,000 on geek bench 5. We did see about 2.5 times as many tracks playable at the 32 buffer setting on the M1 Ultra vs the M1 pro. The tracks in record don't really enter into it because he is using pro tools carbon which runs record tracks from DSP, rather than CPU. All the playback tracks are running on the processor. Though I'm not a coder, my experience with Both native and DSP systems makes me think that coding is more sophisticated than you make it seem. It is not as though one 8k video played in real-time in premiere will only be processed with one GPU core, when the computer may have hundreds of those. I don't think coding splits assets up on a 1 to one basis like this anymore. If it did, then you'd only need 1 gpu core to play an 8k red raw video in premiere. There can be thousands of Cuda cores... I'm a live sound engineer and composer. I've done my share of studio work. IF a quad core intel i5 from 6 years ago can play back 32 tracks at 48k and do a relatively decent number of plugins, that's a lot more than 1 or 2 tracks per core.

[@Krell666]

@@jessestuart5756 Audio tracks in a DAW are not highly parallelized so single core performance is most important for complex signal chains and VIs. High core counts are only useful for many tracks of audio such as in scoring sessions. Bottom line is I'd take an 8 core M2 chip (3.49Ghz) over a 16 core M1 chip (3.2Ghz) for DAW use every time as I use a lot of plugins per track.

[@youknowme...1840]

Just too much unnecessary talk can't put up with. Expected better in the beginning.

[@BarryJohns]

Show is called Studio “Talk”

[@deerock7]

M1 Macbook Pro 16 Max, 64g ram here. I almost want to cry cuz I'm so happy with this laptop. It just kills it. I have some rather large sessions and it doesn't even hiccup...let alone the spinning ball that was my arch enemy on every other computer I've ever had. :)

[@AveryPkwyMusic]

Do you ever hear your fan noise? That’s what I’m trying to find out to help me decide with a studio or mbp.

[@RezaRazuan]

Bro can I ask, do you think with your macbook pro can it able to handle atmos mixing on pro tools?

[@ilikemyrealname]

I'm curious of 2 major keys and how they will work on the different M1 iterations: 1. What happens with instrument tracks. Kontakt, Omnisphere, so on. Especially when the RAM is filled. 2. How do Acustica Audio plugins fair, including Nebula (TimP, Cupwise, so on). Excellent video, Barry!

[@StarskiYall]

Acustica doesn’t work great as of yet. It’s M1 compatible but pro tools isn’t so it’s not really optimized to work. It apparently doesn’t work great through Rosetta. It works but I have a lot of issues. Part of the reason I’m pissed avid haven’t updated to M1 native.

[@ilikemyrealname]

@@StarskiYall Thank you for your reply. This is exactly what I’ve been wondering since PT isn’t M1 native yet. I might be better off waiting until native compatibility.

[@americanbigelow]

Barry, Thanks for the video. Trust me... I'm all about throwing shade at Apple but I'm slightly dubious about these results. I ran a similar test using Reaper on a 10700 and I didn't break 28% CPU Usage. If Pro Tools is still running in Rosetta, you might be losing some motor to the application layer. Again... I want these results to be accurate for selfish reasons but I'm doubting a native application would perform like this. Anyway... Just throwing it out there. Thanks again for all the videos. I hope you have a great week.

[@BarryJohns]

Yeah my first test was with an unsupported DAW on purpose. I actually spent most of today preparing the same type test in logic pro, to see what kind of different results I would get there. Standby I’ll be doing several different videos coming at it from different perspectives and different DAW‘s at least try to give people some insight.

[@Swizzenator]

Plugins shmugins. Have you ever heard of the amount of bandwidth for virtual synth plugins?

[@pseudobeast4653]

The stereo audio coming out of your Pro Tools is out of phase fyi.

[@AveryPkwyMusic]

I’m sure this was asked already. But do you ever hear your fans running on the mbp? That’s ultimately my defining factor I think between an ultra or an mbp.

[@ezrashanti]

Same.

[@MR-vj8dn]

Nice talk. I appreciate you being you. I’ve just got my father a Carbon. Need to complete the studio upgrade with a new Mac too. Looking at the choices available winter 2023. Just a question: The 128 buffer is fairly noticeable and a bit annoying to me when performing along with (mostly assisting) my father. Sure you’re not bother with it? Are we talking the same buffer? 😄 Sounds like a super power that I wish I had too 👍🏻

[@michaelconry3004]

I would prefer a Studio Max, 16, with 32GB “o” ram, however, a lappy Is looking pretty reasonable 😂🎉❤

[@joemagicproductions1611]

Great videos Barry! You mentioned a good external drive to boot from. I am about to replace my 2011 Mac Mini with a16’ MBP M1 Pro and would like to boot externally while in the studio. Your input on the external drive would be appreciated , thanks in advance!

[@badoedipus2551]

Their were a few things in you're video that weren't totally clear to me.. like it would have been helpful if you had the bench marks of both computers up at the same time.. so I could have compared them that way as I have some trouble holding numbers that big in my head long enough to compare them otherwise. SO.. my understanding.. and I'm not super clear on it.. was that most DAWs support multicore, and have for a long time.. BUT.. especially with the Ultra.. the number of multicores has grown like mad.. and I don't think any of the DAWs have really been set up to take advantage of so many of them... along with hyper threading whatever. BUT.. maybe.. I know you're doing a Logic video? I IMAGINE Apple would be the first to really take advantage of there own hardware. The other thing is that my impression is that folks inclined to buy Ultras are probably folks who like to buy a computer and hang onto it for a little while.. more so then with MacBooks.. and I would imagine that there is going to be a growing desire for for developers to take advantage of the cores over time.. I also don't know.. so you're saying Avid isn't Apple Silicone native? I haven't been following Pro Tools too much.. I know they came out with new stuff just recently.. maybe it was since you did the video.. I sorta would be surprised if they just came out with something new they wouldn't have gone native.. my understanding is iLok still isn't native? I don't know what Native does for you other then gives you a lot better performance.. but I also think.. it's at least possible.. that Apple had engineered stuff to be easier for developers in terms of taking advantage of the scale of some of the stuff they're doing.. which might include some things to do with multicore performance. I'm a little fuzzy on this but I have listened to some conversations with knowledgeable folks on this front.. If that's the case.. it'll be interesting. Then there's questions of how many of your plugins are native, if the DAW supports sandboxing.. and just a whole ton of question marks about stuff I'm not super smart about.. but would impact the results we get. For me.. I TEND to use a lot of softsynths and what not.. and I basically feel like I can't get enough CPU performance.. and none of the video's I've seen with folks showing instance counts really matches the way I work, or like to work.. I mean it would not be uncommon for me to have about 40 instruments going.. and then drums.. which each part of drum instrument having individual processing on it... and the way I work I prefer not to render.. But I often find when you have more processing power then you know what to do with.. you eventually find a way to grow into it, it just takes you a little while. Oh, and another thing.. there's a whole lot better hard drive performance in the newer MacBook Pros and the Studios.. which might have some impact somewhere.

[@park171]

Thanks. For the video. I purchased a 16 MacBook Pro max upon release. I ran Logic running just Sampler instrument sounds utilizing the native sound card. I did compete my old cheese grater Mac pro 12 core. It was very disappointing of the performance on the first observation. Of course I run all my sessions at a 64 buffer. I took it back and just bought a base M1 mini for now and allow for time to optimize to the new hardware and OS. It’s a sure thing that my old Mac Pros days are past. Looking forward to a Mac studio or what ever comes out. BTW. M1 Mac mini is okay but the videos of people KZbinrs running 70 plugins were not portrayed as they may have used high buffer settings. Real world use as how would run a season, the M1 mini can choke running one Omnisphere sound.

[@Doctaj54]

Cool Did you get around to looking the the ram usage of the UADx(native) plugins on you new Mac Studio? Load up fifty 1073's and see how much ram is used in activity monitor. lol

[@anthemmakersmusic]

Why isn't anyone writing code for threadripper pro ? Do a video please, I think it's a Mac killer IMHO!

[@jessieurena7583]

So 128 gb of ram Even if you run a lot of virtual instruments and sample libraries is a waste?

[@Arlicht]

Well, I would suggest to try load session with bunch of Serums and Omnispheres with some heavy presets loaded with tons of modulation and try to see the performance of virtual instruments. All those Brainworx, Softube and UAD audio plugs are very lite and its already known that you can load them in hundreds... I would be interested to see for example Win 11 Pro with 12900k or 12700k DAW performance compared to M1 Studio and Mac Book Pro...

[@thomaskatt4450]

I have a base macbook air base model. Hell, I was able to load 65-68 serums before the beachball. And these were double oscillator patches too. So I don't know what I would do musically that would require 65 Serums on it. As far as audio tracks I understand that the Air is good for like 90 tracks. So for an 'unpaid' hobbyist how much do I really need ?

[@1eidji652]

Uad plug lite ?

[@georgegreen8836]

Thanks for the vid! I’m pretty sure I will be getting a 32g of ram 14 MBP M1 pro for music production. Just not sure if going from 8-core to 10 cores is worth it yet.

[@BarryJohns]

Wait, they are expected to release the M2 Pro/Max this month.

[@adamphillips6747]

Hint the M1 chip is a revaluation. Saved you time off your life. And wait… why are you using Pro Tools? I thought you couldn’t stand Avid?

[@BarryJohns]

Did you watch the whole video, I talk about why and what’s next.

[@FRANKRICECOLD209]

I Am Hoping They Announce a New Mac Pro On June 6 at WWDC I Hope It Is Not All Self Contained Like The Mac Studios i Hope They Let You Add Hard Drive and Ram and PCI Stuff Because i Can't Justify The Price Of The Mac Studios and Not Being Able To Upgrade Any Thing You Are Stuck With What You Got That Dose Not Sit Well With Me

[@Mrfpsara]

You have to walk out of the old computer tower thinking with these macs… the ram is part of the cpu so forget about that, ssd is on the board so forget about it, PCI is obsolete with usb 4 and there is very little need for anything inside the box, you can add external ssd drivers at crazy speeds for cheap now…a Mac Pro will probably cost twice as the ultra and maybe will house some SSds inside… owc sells all kinds of storage housing and docks, other than a crazier cpu there aren’t much on the horizon…

[@TeslaOsiris]

Well we’re definitely in overkill territory with audio processing. I wish I could afford a Mac with an M1 Max or Ultra. But even if I could, it would probably the last Mac I would ever need to buy (barring any divine acts of catastrophe). Hell...even when I’m able to get an M1 Mac Mini, I probably won’t ever need to replacement until a critical failure.

[@bryanmontero]

Very informative!! subscribed! :)

[@StarskiYall]

Thanks for all these videos and all your work. Love the channel! I just got my ultra like a month ago and it’s been interesting to say the least. There’s definitely bugs and weird things happening. Also avid not being M1 native is literally driving me nuts. Yes Rosetta works well and they have “qualified” it to work on Mac studio but it’s not the same and none of our plugins are able to be fully native since the daw isn’t. My biggest issue is with my Acustica stuff (which by the way is M1 native). There’s plugins don’t work well through Rosetta. There’s just a few plugins from them I really can’t replace with anything else. Also the M1 ultra is basically 2x as many cpu cores as the M1 pro and M1 max. The difference is gpu cores between the max and pro. Yes the ultra is 2x M1 max’s but we really only care about the cpu cores for audio (at least for now). Are you coming to NAMM? Let’s go harass avid if you do! 😂

[@jmiller4559]

Excellent video! Thanks for posting!

[@d3vp131]

Studio Ultra delivery still 4 weeks out. When developers start making native plugins and such to take advantage of the M1 processing power, the Ultra will be needed. Would like to see results for Native M1 Logic and native m1 waves, etc.

[@Mrfpsara]

Waves are not a good benchmark for performance, as most of there plug ins are not optimized for anything, they talk to the daw using “wave-shell”while running there universal code there…the only thing that waves are extremely optimized for is yearly update plans while running the same old code over and over….

[@StarskiYall]

Hopefully avid will have their s@!? Together before you get your computer, slate is updated now. Waiting on avid and Antares and UA now… of course all the biggest companies are slow af to update to native M1 support. Ridiculous

[@Mrfpsara]

@@StarskiYall small developers are in touch with there users and care to know what they need, avid has no clue…did someone ask for new synth, or the ability to colour video tracks?! On what planet do these guys live?! it’s obvious that corporate and marketing are a bunch of headless idiots…

[@StarskiYall]

@@Mrfpsara yeah I definitely agree. But at this point it’s insanity that M1 silicon has been out for 2 years and these companies haven’t got it together. M2 is right around the corner and they haven’t figured out how to use apple silicon. Avid tried to say they were waiting on ilok as if they couldn’t test their software without ilok and be ready when ilok updated. Anyways I’m stuck with pro tools unfortunately being a commercial studio but it’s really disappointing.

[@Mrfpsara]

@@StarskiYallAvid was flat out lying about the pace situation, if you go to Uhe compressor page, they have stated that Avid has not even supplied them with an apple silicon sdk for protools… avid is run by clueless corporate jerks…

[@Gongtopia]

Thanks for the great comparison. I ended up getting a 14" MacBook Pro with the M1Pro chip (10-core CPU & 16-core GPU), 16GB of RAM and 1TB SSD. I've been running both Logic and DaVinci Resolve on it and so far it is crushing everything I throw at it. I don't need it to run 100 tracks of Logic, but it handles 30-40 tracks of virtual instruments easily. Making KZbin and other videos in Resolve is much smoother and the render times are crazy fast. But unless you are a pro photographer/videographer/film maker using 8K/Hi-Res/RAW/etc, I doubt you really need the ProMax Studio and lots of RAM.

[@BarryJohns]

This has been my experience as well.

[@javiescobargonzalez]

Hello, could you tell me if this computer is able to support several heavy kontakt tracks in 32 buffer size without clicking? your reply will be highly appreciated for me. I am seriously thinking of buying your same model. Thanks a lot

[@hobbesesq.8841]

Do you notice random cpu spikes when “ignore playback errors” is ticked on your systems? Happening for me on both the m1 pro MacBook and the studio. On sessions with no plugins or tracks and the latest os and pro tools version. My air with Big Sur runs fairly heavy sessions rock solid though

[@BarryJohns]

There is defiantly some weirdness in Protools. The CPU Meters seem to be working right sometimes and then go crazy for no reason.

[@jaimeciero3485]

Amazing video ! Thanks 🙏

[@MrCoolerThanAFan]

That 1176 is not going to touch the cpu unless it's the native UAD version. Other than that, it's processing from the interface

[@BarryJohns]

I said in the video it’s part of UAD Spark,which is native but not Silicon certified. I’m also using an Avid Carbon, which cannot run UAD plugins in DSP. So interface is irrelevant.

[@tanukibrahma]

That load time on the MacBook Pro is crazy. I’m able to load a comparable Pro Tools session with as many tracks and plug-ins in far less time, less than a minute for sure, on my 2017 i9 iMac. The performance here seems abysmal.

[@BarryJohns]

I think it’s more of an ilok thing than the computer. The next video will be all supported plugins in Logic.

[@jessieurena7583]

So I run logic pro x , i do mostly production using a good amount of virtual instruments I'm still not sure if I should get the m1 max or the ultra for this computer What do you think?

[@brendenrodgers7821]

why not play it safe and go with the ultra, why would you wanna spend money for it to potentially not be enough

[@robflores5172]

Do you think I should just go with the M1 max? Gonna be doing a lot of VST heavy stuff.

[@BarryJohns]

Yes

[@delmixedit]

Yikes that load time is horrendous. Hope that’s due to Rosetta 2.

[@BarryJohns]

I know, right!

[@Sleemzz]

I bought a m1 max Mac Studio a couple weeks ago that I ended up returning. Didn’t see a massive upgrade in performance over my m1 pro MBP, but the one thing I did notice was the speed(not quantity) of the ram.

[@creativegreats6924]

What situations did u notice speed of the ram?

[@zonarecordingstudio]

It’s time for hdx

[@iAmAsar]

😮 ❤️

[@armandodiaz3485]

Thanks for tackling the “DAW” performance question on these new Studio Silicon Macs! Questions: was you MBP running the same OS as the Ultra? Also, and this is just a minor one for me..I realize you weren’t running any automation during this test but what was your take on the metering? Any “lag” on either the Ultra or MBP especially at the 32 buffer? Thanks!!

[@BarryJohns]

Both computers had the same version of iOS. Once I settled on what I could tell was the optimal performance to be able to balance both needing to track as well as push the system. The system reacted as you would expect. No lag that I noticed.

[@anthemmakersmusic]

I just think the price of the new apples vs what you could have built with Epic or AMD threadripper pro is a no brain nod towards AMD again Mr. Barry when time permits visit Level One Techs he can change your life

[@dennischam2590]

Great video Barry!

[@RedMedicineRecording]

Did you mention what sample rate this is?

[@BarryJohns]

I don’t think I did, it was 44.1.

[@cookiekixx]

Thank you!!

[@ABC_A]

nice

[@oldschoolsoul]

To draw a conclusion whether to keep the Mac Studio Ultra, vs getting the Mac Studio Max, using a app under Rosetta, seems a bit pre-mature...

[@BarryJohns]

I thought I had covered that I had been researching this and in depth leading up to this. It’s also the “First” video and in the series. I had also said I was going to be testing on Logic which is Silicon Native, of which I’ve been doing today. At the end of “All” my testing then I’ll make the decision.

[@oldschoolsoul]

That’s fine.. But you also said your gut instinct is that you are likely to exchange the ultra for the max…Based on this particular video you are only using Rosetta…Hence my comment…

[@BarryJohns]

@@oldschoolsoul I said that before I even got the MacStudio. So a Rosetta App had nothing to do with my assessment. It is a numbers game though.

[@oldschoolsoul]

Soooo, let me get this straight. Your test was done on a “Rosetta” or non Silicon M1 optimized version of Pro Tools. Then in the conclusion phase of your video you asses that price point to performance (Using your M1 Mac Book Pro vs Mac Studio Ultra) that the Mac Studio Max vs the Mac Studio Ultra, the Max version may be the sweet spot. Your instinct. Having not yet done this test on an optimized Silicon App, that conclusion or semi-conclusion had nothing to do with your instinct? Got it!

[@oig40203]

That Tom Anderson is a good looking guitar!

[@BarryJohns]

I love it!

[@anthemmakersmusic]

Sorry I know it's a desktop machine

[@anthemmakersmusic]

I am so surprised that Apple didn't partner up with them on Epic or Threadripper

[@anthemmakersmusic]

Please go visit Level one Techs they can tell it better than I can sell it, you will be amazed at what he can do for you, your your tour smiling!

[@Mrfpsara]

Hope to see a benchmark with some current software running apple native, Protools is a dinosaur at this point, I don’t think it’s optimized to handle such loads…

[@BarryJohns]

Working on it today.

[@Mrfpsara]

@@BarryJohns you are the man!can’t wait to see this! Developers who are slow to adapt need to be named and shamed at this point.

[@BarryJohns]

@@Mrfpsara I’ve been known to do that, just sayin…..😜

[@JohnGauge790]

Protools is bloated lazy patched code and is light years behind in creative workflow.

[@chucknkd]

just a thought on the single core performance: on the MBP there are 10 single cores, and the Mac studio ultra has 20 single cores. even if it is only dependent on single cores, wouldn't that explain the difference in performance (Mac studio handling the session at 32 buffer compared to the MBP t 1024 w tracks disabled)?

[@Screaming-Trees]

Well his results pretty much accord with what's expected here. More cores will give you a higher track count. Better single core performance will let you do more processing per track (so larger channel strips etc). DSP is a serial process mostly. You can't really parallelize that much because you're waiting on the output of one thing before you can feed it into the input of another. I think in the case of either the M1 Pro with 10 cores and the M1 Ultra with 20 you won't reach the upper limit of what's possible and you probably won't risk not meeting your own requirements. Even the little M1 mini will give you a hundred tracks with serious amounts of processing on those tracks.