Machining a 5C Collet Adapter - Morse Taper 4-1/2 to 5C adapter

[@Pef273]

Thanks, your way of copying the taper is the best concept I have seen! I belive that I can do that on my 100 year old Hendy lathe.

[@hersch_tool]

@@Pef273 thanks very much for watching! I’m glad it was helpful. And you definitely can! Just remember to make sure that your indicator is on center when you copy the taper and it should work out well for you. Good luck and have fun!

[@hersch_tool]

PSA: KZbin has been "processing" the HD version of this vid for the past 3 hours. The HD version should be available, at some point...

[@PaulSteMarie]

Nice, but I'd strongly suggest making a protector for the D1-4 taper on the spindle nose. You were getting pretty close to it while machining the adapter.

[@jasonhull5712]

Love the 5C collet system. That’s going to be super handy! Excited to see what kind of run out you achieve. Well done 👍🏻

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much! Aaaaand, it's not "great" but it's also not "horrible". It's good to about a thou. Which, I guess for my first time doing anything like this is acceptable. I would like to try this project again though in the future and see if I can't get within

[@jasonhull5712]

@@hersch_tool I was thinking about doing this for my lathe as well. I just purchased a JFK collet closer system that’s a bit too big for my machine, I’ll use all the parts and make it custom made for my machine. But on that spindle adapter I was thinking maybe start off with a center-less ground OD and only turn the the threaded section at the end. And do the boring. ? Not too sure yet really. But you definitely inspired me to do something ☝️.. just not sure what yet. 😝realistically a thou is not a deal breaker.. it’s not bad at all. The collets have that often, but you can true them up. I thought I was one of few who knew this trick but I just seen Don use it over on his KZbin channel the other day. He is a goldmine of Precision machining knowledge. He has two channels now. Dee Dee is one and I think the other one is Don Dyer machining. He has one of the neatest small shops. All tucked in tightly and well organized. Anyhoo, I enjoy your videos man, thanks for sharing all the techniques and tips. We really need more young folks getting into machining! Every video helps !

[@hersch_tool]

@@jasonhull5712 it’s definitely a fun and worthwhile project. And it sounds like you’ve got a good head start with a solid foundation to build on with that system, I think you should go for it! And yeah, I have been following Don for a while. He’s highly skilled and is a goldmine of "old school" machining wisdom, I am constantly learning something new from his vids. And thank you btw. I really appreciate the kind words, it really means a lot. I would love to see us rekindle that spirit of hard work and industrial pride that used to be such an important part of our culture. Instead of relying on others to make and do everything for us while we import everything from cars to hammers…

[@edkeniston4786]

You’re humble, I’ll give you that. Don’t loose sight of that, it’ll ruin you if you do! Good video, I’ll look for the next.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks so much Ed, that's very kind. That's very good advice, I'll remember it. And thanks for watching also!

[@gworx-247]

Hey, that was very good work and it was filmed and edited also very good! Thank you for sharing your work 👍👍👍

[@hersch_tool]

Thank you very much! And thanks for watching!

[@marcshapiro7317]

This content is AWESOME! I can't wait for the making of the drawbar

[@hersch_tool]

Thank you Marc! I'm so lucky to be able to share something I enjoy so much with other awesome like minded folks such as yourself. LIVING THE DREAM!

[@sammytalarico1327]

Great video can’t wait to follow along all the way from Australia 🇦🇺

[@hersch_tool]

Thank you! Happy to have you along for the ride! :)

[@joecookesr.7396]

You taught me something when it came to setting up the MT. You have inspired me to make my own 5C collet chuck arrangement for my vintage LeBlond. Thank you for sharing. Great video. I'll be back to see how my drawbar idea will compare to what you come up with.

[@hersch_tool]

That's fantastic! I'm so glad to hear that! And thanks so much for watching :)

[@marcsimonsen1578]

I like your approach. Are you planning on adding the clocking pin? Thanks for sharing!

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much. And no, probably not. I haven't had any issues without it and haven't run into any reason to add it so, it'll probably stay how it is forever at this point lol. And thank you for watching!

[@markedevold1261]

Another project to add to my to-do list. Thanks 👍

[@hersch_tool]

HAHA, I am also very familiar with "the list"... And thank you!

[@warrenjones744]

I admire a guy who makes his own tools. This should be fun. In my crystal ball I see you in the future with a small heat treating oven and a tool post grinder! Cheers.

[@hersch_tool]

HAHA, thanks! And that sounds good to me!

[@kentuckytrapper780]

Excellent job man, new subscriber.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much! And thank you for the sub!

[@tilliesinabottle]

Well done. That will be a really accurate adapter because you machined it "in situ". When you are actually using it, It will be the most concentric if you set it in the lathe spindle at the original position that you made it in. You can probably find this ideal position with a test indicator against the inside of the adapter, and then clocking it around until you get the smallest TIR.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks much! Yeah maybe when the draw bar is done we can check out the runout as well and mark it in the best position. The spindle has a "1" stamped near one of cams so that would make a good reference to mark against. Thanks!

[@tilliesinabottle]

exactly. We wouldn't know enough until the adapter is actually constrained by the drawbar. 5c collets bear mainly on the front of the object they are holding, so that's where I would measure. You might throw a collet in and tighten the drawbar to get the adapter seated, then remove the collet and test. It might even be more practical and real-world to do it with a gage pin in a collet, although then we're also factoring in the concentricity and roundness of that collet as well. @@hersch_tool

[@hersch_tool]

@@tilliesinabottle That sounds like a solid plan actually. First checking the collet and finding the best position/orientation in the spindle. Once that's marked, adding a collet with a pin. Honestly, if we see reliable and repeatable .002" or under on the pin, then I'll be happy with that, at least for this first attempt.

[@joell439]

First visit and I’m impressed…… yes, you earned a subscription from me 👍😎👍

[@hersch_tool]

Thank you so much!

[@Pootski]

Nice video, well detailed and produced, I've subscribed and looking forward to future videos mate 😀

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much! I truly appreciate the support, and I look forward to sharing more!

[@lukerickert5203]

That is a good little project. While this will be better than no collets, (collets are great) the fit should be really tight (-0 +0.0002in from the body diameter). You could add a hardened ring and lap it to size. (I would use a new Hardinge or Schaublin collet to test unless you have a good 3 point internal mic). Threading the big end for an ejection ring will be really helpful if your taper is a good fit as Morse tapers are self locking and will get really stuck :)

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks Luke! That's really great advice, on both the ring and on the ejections threads. I'm learning a ton through posting these videos and getting such excellent feedback, it's awesome. I will definitely be coming back to this one in the future and applying all of this excellent feedback. thanks again!

[@StuartsShed]

Nice work - looking forward to seeing the finished item in use. I watched the whole vid. 🙂

[@hersch_tool]

Thank you so much! I really appreciate the positive feedback. And a big thanks for sitting through the whole thing!

[@StuartsShed]

Also I totally understand you selling a machine on after a lot of time rebuilding it. I’ve got a LOT of time into my Grizzly - I got it accurate, but I’ve had enough of it. Next week I’m going to spring for a proper, high quality, brand spanking new toolroom lathe.

[@hersch_tool]

​@@StuartsShed Thanks for this. I am still struggling with my decision on selling the leblond. I really loved that machine, and there's definitely some regret I'm dealing with on that one.

[@Ujeb08]

I would say overall you did an excellent job at the setup and the video. The surface finishes are pretty bad though. Sometimes it can be caused by the spindle bearing play or the longitudinal feed and the ways. But you even got the poor finish using the compound crank. so I would go with a combination of tool dullness and tool feed too fast. I have found that some coated carbide tools are not very sharp and I've had success with using a diamond hone to get a razor sharp edge to cut finish passes on certain materials. good luck.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks so much! And yeah, I'm pretty sure the finish problem is just a combination of me, and the random pile of old auction carbide inserts that I use lol. But a lot of me... 😂

[@therestorationshop]

For 4140PH the exterior finishes were pretty good so it is likely the boring bar at fault.

[@hersch_tool]

@@therestorationshop That boring bar is definitely terrible. It's a cheapo import and it chatters no matter what.

[@chrisstephens6673]

I always like a guy who tries. If you find you get runout it could because the parallel section in your adaptor is just a tad too large. A 5C relies on support at the back , the taper is for closing as well as for support but it does need a close fit, almost an interference fit, deep inside to maintain concentricity. Are those a set of mitutoyo calipers you have, I can't help notice the zero is in an odd position, if they are you might like to look at a video I did many yesrs ago on setting zero easily using the "special " tòol , a bent bit of wire.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks for the advice! I referenced off my other adapter which has a loose fit in the bore but does have a closer fit at the end near the threaded section of the collet. They are mitutoyos, I set the zero with them closed but I'll look for that vid, thanks!

[@AlmostMachining]

Great Job!!!

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much!

[@pikeyMcBarkin]

310 ! nice! great video.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much!

[@johnwhauserman]

CNMG 432 .100 IN. depth of cut @ .012 per rev feed rate. Roughing slow speed and high feed.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much. I still have a lot to learn about how to get the best performance from insert tools.

[@dermotkelly2289]

Great job! I made something similar for my Myford lathe years ago. I was really proud of the job but I put it down in my shed somewhere and I lost it! my shed was very tidy and to this day I don't know what happened to it LOL. Why does engineering piss us off after you spent up to 6 hours making a part that you will never use lol?

[@hersch_tool]

Thank you very much! And that's a question I would to have an answer for. Can't tell you how often I put things down, look away for ONE second, and they're gone... One day im afraid I'll fall through a wormhole into a universe filled left socks, pen caps, and all of those tools that I was "just using a second ago"...

[@StripeyType]

This was also the first thing I made for my lathe when I got it, but I still have not built a drawtube, fully five years later...

[@hersch_tool]

Haha, great minds?...

[@StripeyType]

@@hersch_tool honestly, I had no idea what I was doing, back then. I have had zero formal training in metalwork, so everything for me has been reading and then trying things. The 5C adapter I made, I at least got the order of operations correct, and the thing physically fits well, but I made it out of some weird stainless because that was the piece of stock I had which was big enough. But this means it's unlikely to be hard enough to hold up under real use. I should commit to re-making the thing and actually building a draw tube for it. So, not-so-great, my mind. I was flying by the seat of my pants. One thing I did was use a punch to make a witness mark on the adapter so I can always clock it to the same position in the spindle bore. I got my lathe used, so this might make a difference or it might not. Either way, I'll do it again when I re-make the thing.

[@hersch_tool]

@@StripeyType You know who also flys by the seat of his pants? Maverick! So you're in good company. 😎 We're all just "winging" it here, so I'm glad to have to the good company. (How many more Top Gun references can I fit into this comment?...)

[@industry65]

Make it, use it, remake it only if it wears out!

[@HoldMeBagS]

My question is can I pay you me make me a 4C to mT4 adpter for my Clausing 4911? I have the quick draw bar but not an adapter or spindle protector

[@hersch_tool]

Send me an email 🙂

[@HoldMeBagS]

Where do I find you? Not seeing an email

[@HoldMeBagS]

Nvm got it. Think I needed a pc..

[@clifeddens1658]

Headphone ALERT 12:46

[@graeme02]

Nice

[@hersch_tool]

Thank you!

[@hitnmiss49]

The measurement on your drawing shows the small end larger than the big end.

[@hersch_tool]

I'm not sure I understand your comment, there is no diameter called out for the small end. Unless you're referring to the "2.979°", which is the included angle of the taper. Thanks for watching!

[@hitnmiss49]

@@hersch_tool Sorry my 75 year old eyes mistook that for inches. Thanks for correcting me.

[@hersch_tool]

@@hitnmiss49 HAHA, no worries at all. I appreciate the comment!