Macintosh SE Reloaded BUILD [Part 3]

[@pocketscience911]

Another great video! For removing DIP IC's I invested in a Jonard IC extraction tool many years ago. Well worth the money and ensures IC's come out straight without bent legs.

[@pocketscience911]

I tried posting the Amazon link in my comment but everytime I did the comment was auto deleted.. 🤷‍♂

[@JDW-]

@@pocketscience911 KZbin really upsets me when they do that. I've written them about it, but the refuse to do anything. So you have to trick KZbin with something like "www dot example dot com" in order to avoid their filters. For some reason, they let me post links in all the comments under my videos though -- go figure. I've added the Amazon link in the text description. Mouser also has it here: bit.ly/3yTT6Ep The kit is rather pricey for most home hobbyists, but it's pretty neat they have chip INSERTION tools too! jonard.com/wk-7-ic-insertion-extraction-tool-kit?v=904 Thank you for bringing those excellent tools to our attention, Gavin!

[@rogerjones8809]

I started with part 1 and couldn’t stop until I finished this one. Didn’t realize these videos were so recent Was looking for part 4! I used to work at 2 dealerships and used to work on these when they were fairly new. Glad to know that people have created resources to keep these old models going! At one time back in the ‘90s I had numerous old Mac compact models. Wish I still had them! Soon I will get back into collecting and refurbing some old machines. These videos are invaluable for their content, the techniques involved, and the numerous resources listed. Great work! I really enjoyed this series, and look forward to viewing your other videos and will revisit when needed. This is also a great resource if you needed to fix an existing SE board, and not replace, but if a board is un repairable, it’s great to know how to harvest those old parts for recycling.

[@JDW-]

Thanks for your kind words and for sharing that, Roger. I used to work for a MicroAge dealership in Fresno, CA in 1989. That was when the IIci was new and on the store shelves. I couldn't help but gawk at the thing when I came into the shop each day. It was one of those impossibly expensive machines at the time I was a senior in high school then and was one of their repair techs, part time. The SE was nice but more expensive than the Plus. I also worked part time for a credit reporting and collections company in Fresno, and they had an SE that I supported, alongside an ImageWriter LQ, which was the loudest dot matrix printer I'd ever heard! Most companies at the time had the big dot matrix printers in a semi-sealed enclosure to muffle sound, but that firm went cheap and didn't use one. The whole office would stop for a second when that LQ started printing. :-) So this kind of work holds a lot of nostalgia for me, as I am sure it does for you. Glad to see you're getting back into this hobby.

[@tombarber8929]

14 hour+ build time, a true labor of love! Looking forward to the testing video!

[@SatanicMac]

Great addition to the build series! The board looks SO GOOD after cleaning and assembly, it could really hold its own being hung on a wall as art. I also loved the pink gloves, I spend way too much time cleaning up after the kiddo, it reminded me I need a new pair 😆

[@JDW-]

Thanks, Drake. The 100% IPA bath for 30 minutes, along with toothbrush scrubbing, really did a fantastic job. As to the pink rubber dish washing gloves, they protected me perfectly from the acid bath I gave that rusted metal bracket. Pink is power! 😆

[@ukmk3supra]

If you would like one, I have a few failed runs in blue and gold enig you can mount in a frame

[@JDW-]

@@ukmk3supra Those failed run boards might prove popular if sold as a "limited edition" piece of fine art (which they are). The buyer gets all the beauty without the hard work! :-)

[@SatanicMac]

@@ukmk3supra my hero, I'll PM

[@flow221]

I do love a cliffhanger. Nice work. That board is really beautiful.

[@JDW-]

I’m glad you liked the ending. That 100% IPA really did amazing job cleaning, didn’t it?

[@CheshireNoir]

A vacuum desoldering gun sounds like it could be a worthy investment. I have a cheapo ZD-915 and it's brilliant for removing chips with the legs bent over like that

[@JDW-]

Trust me, it's easier said than done. I have a very high quality Japanese brand desoldering station, but it's an exercise in frustration because it doesn't do as effective a job as a copper wick. So it's not a case of me using a wick because I lack the desoldering station. After a number of years, you just go with what works best for you. Even so, the wick was just the starting point to clear out most of the solder. The more delicate task followed there, whereby I used a hot air station to heat the board and all the pins sufficiently to pry out those DIP ICs. But it takes a lot of heat to do that, and even if you are careful, prying up one edge of the IC will slightly warp it. I later tested and found the chip was fine, but the fact it was ever so slightly warped in the end shows how much heat it took to get that chip out. If the pins had pin soldered in straight and if the chip was heavier, I could have just blasted the solder side with heat and the chip would have fallen out. But lightweight chips with bent pins require a little prying, and there's where you have to take care to minimize warping of the chip. Interestingly, the stock green motherboard wasn't scorched or warped at all after the removal process.

[@wishusknight3009]

The last time I cleaned up a metal bracket like that of rust, I used a dremal with a wire wheel and protected it with nail polish after a clean with IPA. And that worked a treat. 5 years here on vancouver island and its still looking clean. But it was very tedious and took several hours. It also looks like your bracket is a bit thinner gauge than mine, so a dremal may not be a good idea in this case, and the cleaning you did is probably one of the better options. Mine looked like it was in worse shape than yours, but mine was also not nearly as pitted either. So mine was probably a different alloy and was more cosmetic damage.

[@JDW-]

Very interesting. I assume you used clear, not hot pink nail polish, right? ;-) Seriously, aside from keeping the rust from coming back, I was mainly concerned about electrical conductivity, because that bracket is used for chassis ground. Hopefully, this Sunhayato Anti-Rust Shield that I applied will do it's job keeping the rust away and maintaining a great ground connection. The part that took a long time for me was that 2 hours of soaking in the acid, followed by a lot of steel wool scrubbing. Steel wool won't get rid of pits because it won't file down metal like your wire wheel. But that's fine in my case because the pitting is closest to the motherboard and hidden behind connectors.

[@wishusknight3009]

@@JDW- Lol.. Mine was not completely clear, it had a caramel tint to it. but Its what was on sale at the drug store. It would perfectly match my potential future plans to use wood paneling wrap on the computer its a part of.. I cant remember exactly how long it took to get it shiny-ish. 4 or 5 hours... it was painful. I used a light wheel to not gouge it. The computer was a mid 80s file server and at the time I was finishing its restoration to show at a local retro event. So I was going a little overboard on the look of everything. And that bracket in particular acted as a brace for the octopus pcb that feeds components and drives with power. And it sits pretty prominently. It is soldered party in place to the pcb and screwed to the backside of the case in the most obscenely difficult way possible. No way was I going to ever take it out again. This computer was also sold as a deskside workstation. So its a pretty large case at that. Lots of things on that machine needed work...

[@santospoland]

Major cliff hanger!

[@buserror]

I restored quite a few tools in my time, and my best, goto method is electrolysis. It just doesn't 'remove rust' it converts it back to metal, so you rarely get any pitting. Also, you have *everything* on hand to use that method (bench supply, plastic container, soda!). Try it next time and be amazed :-)

[@JDW-]

Oh no doubt, it just takes more time and more effort overall (especially when you include the buffing step) than the approach I took, as demonstrated in this electrolysis example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z52WdadrYt-rhtU

[@Stryder_The_Nite_Owl]

Awesome video like always. Thanks for all of the hard work you do on these!

[@JDW-]

Thank you for your kind words!

[@DavidStahlOLDHAPPyMACs]

Great Job JDW looks Fantastic if I ever have to do that I will uses your video series as a guide Oh Great Cliff Hanger for part 4

[@JDW-]

Thank you, Dave. The video has 1 Thumbs Down so far, so I guess not everyone liked the Cliff Hanger at the end, but I'm glad you did! :-)

[@DavidStahlOLDHAPPyMACs]

@@JDW- Just goes to show you you please everyone nice job Sir

[@AwokenAssailant]

Hi there, I'm currently working on my own SE Reloaded project and wanted to say thanks for the helpful documentation, it's sure saved me a lot of time. EDIT: Nvm I misplaced a sheet lol EDIT 2: I broke my ADB chip and I'm not gonna tempt fate by attempting to desolder the VIA or GLU. Back to Mouser I go.

[@JDW-]

I received an email notification of your initial post where you spoke about U10C, but I see in your revised comment that you got it all squared away. So you destroyed your ADB chip during the desoldering process by applying too much heat and/or cracking the chip body? In any case, as mentioned at the bottom of page 4 in my BOM, there is now a drop-in IC replacement using a PIC16F88 and this firmware: bit.ly/3XKpmmQ If that is your plan, please let me know how it goes because I never tried that PIC replacement myself.

[@AwokenAssailant]

@@JDW- Yeah, cracked the body trying to pull it out. Chip extractor slipped. I do have another question. I'm looking at picking up the programmer listed in the BOM (TL866II+) but the one linked to on Amazon is sold out. Do I need those adapters if I'm just doing the GLU and ADB? Do I need a separate programmer for the PIC chip?

[@JDW-]

@@AwokenAssailant Please note that I do not own one of those Chinese programmer devices. I do, however, use $1,000 Microchip ProMate3 programmers at the office, which I use to program PIC MCUs. (I program them in Assembly language.) The current version programmer is called the T48. Keyword search Amazon dot com for: T48 Programmer and you will see many kits that vary by the socket modules included. I see from the T48 compatibility list that the PIC16F88 is listed: www.xgecu.com/MiniPro/T48_List.txt But again, I don't own the programmer, nor have I used it, so I cannot offer further guidance on it. Also bear in mind that while the older TL866II+ did have an app that worked on modern Macs, the T48 requires a Windows PC. Alternatively, you could go with a Microchip programmer at a lower cost. Here's one with a socket module I found on Amazon (affiliate link): www.amazon.com/Programming-microcontroller-Development-Universal-Programmer/dp/B07YY6Z2W3/ Amazon has the PicKit3 even cheap without the socket module, but you would need to spend more time wiring it, as shown in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZCWoaWfr6mXqac One final option is to create a new post on the TinkerDifferent forum (I'm an Admin there), telling people you are doing the SE Reloaded build and you don't have a programmer, and would someone please program a PIC16F88 for you and mail it to you. Probably someone local to you might be willing to do that, and if it is domestic shipping, the postage price probably wouldn't be much at all. Here's the SE Reloaded discussion thread: tinkerdifferent.com/threads/logic-board-macintosh-se-reloaded.25/page-12

[@tenminutetokyo2643]

Oh yeah I've been waiting for this.....

[@threethousandyen]

Your approach to restoring the frame is well thought and executed. However I think it would have been better to electroplate it after you stripped and polished it. It requires a few more supplies but is very DIYable and would produce a result you wouldn’t have to worry about. Regardless, I’d be curious to see how your frame looks in six months or so. Do you know if the coating you applied affects conductivity?

[@JDW-]

The transparent coating I purchased from SunHayato here in Japan allows great electrical conductivity of that metal bracket, and is why I decided to protect the bracket with it. Despite the high humidity here, I've not noticed any rust-back at all. I will of course keep and eye on it and let everyone know how it goes over time.

[@FrankConforti]

Late to the party, sorry. The BEST rust remover is VapoRust. In the liquid formula you dump your objects such as old rusty tools I like to restore, in a bucket of the VapoRust, leave it overnight and presto!, all of the rust is removed! All of the metal will come out gun metal gray from the process but all of the heavy rust will be entirely gone. I have a five gallon bucket just for restoring tools and rusty car parts. You can polish the gray back to a shiny silver with a small brass or stainless steel brush. You should ALWAYS put a coat of clear paint over the bracket except for the solder tabs or else its possible the rust will return. Amazon here in the states sells a small bottle of VapoRust Gel that works for small projects like this and it works the same way. If you wanted to return the bracket to its non-pitted state a little bit of Bondo goes a long way. Of course, you’ll have to spray it with an opaque paint, something like rust oleum’s stainless steel. If I get to do a project like this with. a nasty donor motherboard that’s what I’d do. Cheers!

[@JDW-]

Thank you for the suggestion, Frank, and thank you again for being an amazing supporter of this channel! Sadly, VapoRust isn't commonly sold in Japan. It only comes in large amounts selling for about US$200 on Amazon here in Japan, which is why I went with a different rust remover that is more commonly found here, comes in small quantities, and costs a very reasonable amount of money too. After de-rusting, I discuss the clear-coat that I applied to the bracket, at 38:42 in my video, which is the perfect coating because it remains electrically conductive -- important as that bracket must make a good GND connection to the metal chassis of the Mac. Not all clear coats can achieve that, which is why I linked that Anti-rust Shield (Sunhayato RS-L15) in the text description below the video.

[@joethezombie]

Amazing!

[@JDW-]

Thank you, Joe! I'm hoping to be amazed when I finally switch on power to see if it works. Fingers crossed! 🤞

[@egonrath]

As i'm learning to desolder currently: When you removed the DIP chips, why have you preheated the solder joints before you were using the soldering iron and wick? Has this something to do with lowering thermal stress on the components caused by the iron? (btw. learned almost all my solder skills as a sideeffect of watching your channel, great job!)

[@JDW-]

Preheating is not absolutely necessary but is often helpful on multilayered boards where you have a large Ground Plane that acts as a heatsink. By preheating large areas of the board, you warm that ground plane (heat sink) such that it then becomes a bit easier to desolder components.

[@eslofftschubar206]

Do I understand it correctly, the only controller that has to be salvaged is the BBU. The other can either be bought or built?

[@JDW-]

Please see the Green-highlighted items at the bottom of page 4 in my BOM here: bit.ly/3MF7BA9 I should add that I tried and failed to build and successfully test recreations of the ADB & SWIM chips. I shipped them to Bruce Rayne in Australia for analysis. He told me recently that my soldering job was just fine and that it is some other problem he is investigating now. Could just be bad ICs or maybe it is a flawed PCB design. (I did not try building creations of the ROMs or GLU chip.) All said, some of these recreations are still works in progress. You can avoid the need to build replacements if you are able to extract working chips from your stock motherboard. The recreations are there just in case your stock chips are damaged and you cannot find the stock chips for sale elsewhere.

[@ukmk3supra]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaipc5KthduJj5Y - the silkscreen text here is a reference to @RMCRetro here on YT :)

[@JDW-]

Very interesting, Kai! I see that channel is quite varied in its retro content: www.youtube.com/@RMCRetro/videos

[@jp2enlimited761]

Isn't it a SE circuit diagram on your bench? Could you share the source, please?

[@JDW-]

I just uploaded them to Macintosh Garden and added the link in the text description, per your request. Here's the link: bit.ly/3I965Vq

[@jp2enlimited761]

@@JDW- , Thanks

[@jp2enlimited761]

48:00 why not to desolder the capacitors first?

[@JDW-]

Because even if I desoldered those two yellow 0.1uF ceramic capacitors, the fact remains the chip was still too close to the board to fit the chip extractor tool beneath it, which is why you later see me use a small flathead screwdriver, and the presence of those capacitors actually gave my screwdriver some leverage to pop the chips out, once I had enough heat on the legs with my hot air station.

[@jp2enlimited761]

so... 01:01:00 you just dissolved flux in the alcohol and covered whole board, every contact, every socket with that? hmmm...

[@JDW-]

Well, as you can see, the tops of all connectors were not totally submerged, but it wouldn't have mattered if they were. Bear in mind that most people clean these boards in ultrasonic cleaners, which is a water solution mixed with a cleaning agent, and the entire board is dunked deep in that liquid, and yet the board comes through unscathed.