There's a Big Issue with Minion Necromancer in Diablo 4 | Let's Talk About It

[@BoKruse]

They are making this WAY more complicated than it needs to be. Take Grim Dawn as example. In Grim Dawn you can hot key an minion attack/focus key. If you click it, the minions move to the point you are clicking or attack the thing you are clicking on. When you are not giving them instructions, they simply act autonomously. Added to that, you can set for each minion whether it should be passive or aggressive. It really doesn't have to be harder than that.

[@codyharney2997]

Agreed. Aimed attacks would be nice. Wish I could hold curse to aim it as well

[@HoosierLarry]

I couldn’t have said it better myself.

[@malzagod1429]

Grim Goat is goated 🐐 🔥

[@minhphuoc22]

That's right sir, In Grim Dawn AND Last Epoch, controlling minion is just easy as that. One button

[@alexgeary1740]

@@minhphuoc22 Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe in Last Epoch you just press "A" , then left-click, & the minions will attack move to that location.

[@r3dr3drose]

You have no idea how much i wanna cry when I fight Andariel and the minions wouldnt walk into the effing bubble to hit the totems

[@drpeck104]

I didn't have this issue. She was actually really easy to kill in T2.

[@DenyThisFlesh]

​@drpeck104 t2 is pretty easy though. T3 and T4 are a big step up from t2

[@MasteryGuns]

No problems with it so far in t4

[@Orthus100]

Not to mention the rotating beam just murders them. Running Tormented Andy last season was the tipping point where I gave up on them and just ran Bone Spirit.

[@jordan_goes_in4378]

Didnt have this prob thank goodness.

[@TheAlbinpro]

I don't understand why they don't just add the D3 Rathma build "Command skeletons" way of managing minions, where you had a spell that targeted an enemy and caused your minions to frenzy on said enemy and once it died they frenzied to nearby enemies without any input from you. That way you could manage everything fine and it didn't "require a huge amount of skill from the player" or whatever nonsense they have thought of.

[@K1m9857]

Because d4 and d3 has gone backwards in terms of qol Probably a feature in the next expansion, much like the "hypothetical skill" macro is talking about

[@Bekusasu]

It makes to much sense

[@redelfshotthefood8213]

Player engagement is a focus for Blizz. Autonomous minions destroy engagement.

[@K1m9857]

@@redelfshotthefood8213 they lack player engagement already Doubt a qol will hurt that

[@TheAlbinpro]

​@@redelfshotthefood8213 The AoTD Rathma build with "Command skeleton" required more player engagement than most necro builds currently in D4. "Command skeleton" is essentially just a better version of their stupid "they will attack your cursed target" that barely works. "Command skeleton" allowed you to prioritize enemies and send your minions around aggressively and actually feel like you were the commander of a horde of undeads. Currently you are mostly at the mercy of your minion's stupid AI where they will be scattered around attacking randomly even when you curse things.

[@undeathmetal1717]

Meanwhile, Conjuration Sorc's Conjurations are unkillable, go through walls, and often times kill or severely wound packs of monsters before you even get to them.

[@mrjenchilada]

Because it’s constant uptime that actually requires effort vs a necro JUST WALKING AROUND

[@woodenblade9720]

You need to pull them together, curse them, buff their damage each pack you encounter. When i play sorc it feels way less effort than my Necro tbh because everything about necro feels clunky and needs set up. Unless you Play Spirit wave. But the idea of just walking around doesn't apply in high tier content and pits, at all. @@mrjenchilada

[@undeathmetal1717]

You know how Spirtborn can choose whatever Class Hall flavor they want - and always have access to whatever skills they want at the same time? Yeah. I wish they'd remake Necromancer's book of the Dead so that you just ALWAYS have minions. No sacrifices. Instead of sacrifices, make choosing which types of minions you're using be the big powergain for certain builds. It's insane to me that majority of Necromancer builds just triple Sacrifice and are far superior to minions builds for it.

[@Skulm]

Great video. 15:29 is the biggest feedback that Blizzard can ever receive about minions. I honestly think we should be able to control the skeletons more. Some sort of minion spender would also feel great because Blight is the worst projectile I have ever seen in a video game. I was imagining integrating Sever since it really fits the theme. You can control where Sever hits if you play with mouse so the distance is under your control. They can make something like "The last target that was hit by your Sever will be priority focus of minions" or some sort of mechanic like that where you can at least direct your minions towards that monster with "Damage Resistance Aura" so that we can snipe it with mendeln procs. Great work!

[@eredkaiser]

At the minimum, Summon skeleton should passively spawn skeletons while on your bar, just like how the druid companions skills do. If I put wolves on my bar, I have wolves. If i press wolves, they target an enemy. somehow thats too much apm for necros.

[@Orthus100]

And it's the same functionality that Skeles had in D3.

[@ahapxir]

i play minion builds in every arpg. really hope the developers watch this video. i think there’s a good chance they will. at least we finally got satisfactory damage on them but the AI and gameplay needs improvement badly

[@pokemonfan2630]

I always get to a point on minion necro where i realize I'm gonna have to put like another 100 hours in just to be able to barely do endgame content without dying and still stand around waiting 5 minutes for a boss to die, then i make the op meta build and cheese the whole game in 2 days, then wait til the next season to do it all again.

[@shadowenergyAI]

whats your favorite minion build across the different arpg or if there is no clear favourite what is your favourite among the arpgs you played in lets say last 3 years?

[@ahapxir]

@@shadowenergyAI pet build witch doctor in diablo 3 will always hold a place in my heart, probably just for sentimental reasons. summoner in diablo 2 is a classic. necromancer in last epoch that's a great arpg. i haven't played much path of exile but i'm sure they have good minion builds

[@Dave-sw8yh]

The best Necromancer minion archetype in DIablo franchise is in Immortal. Skeletons summon passively. You can reposition them. You can buff them. You can even apply a DOT effect to them then direct them close to enemies to apply that damage. Basics in a pet build they have it and its fun too. Just sad that they are in a sh!+ game overall.

[@lordmakino9514]

​@Dave-sw8yh the worst part is that you have more control in diablo immortal then the actual pc console Game you put more control in a phone game then what people really want

[@LifesGuardian]

As many other commenters have said, get rid of skeletal priests. Make skeletons auto summoned and immortal. That frees up the summon skeleton button to be a directive button instead. Just do the sand thing they did with the golem. You could even make the skeletal priest be a buff that applies specifically when the skeletons are directed so we don't miss out.

[@libertyprime9307]

This seems like the best option to me. I doubt they would ever remove Skele Priest because that is a mechanic that a number of things affect, but if they just swapped the Summon Skele active in exchange for the "Target this enemy" active, that would be the best outcome.

[@SinHurr]

So D3 skeletons

[@LifesGuardian]

@@SinHurr Yup. Why not? D4 is reverting piece by piece anyway, why not this?

[@Farengast]

​@@LifesGuardian Diablo 3 solved SO many problems with the necromancer class design and they threw it all out like buffoons in D4.

[@darkblue099]

You've described Diablo 3. This is literally what they did for skeletons in Diablo 3, and I can't recall anyone complaining about it. I've played a minion build every season since launch (blood minions, shadow minions, golem-only, mendeln, etc) and I can't think of a season where I didn't think "I wish I could direct these things to hit where and when I want..." I'm honestly about ready to give up on my Mendeln build this season and try the Companion Druid because THAT'S HOW IT WORKS FOR WOLVES. Honestly, maybe that's why they did it? Maybe they were worried people would complain about skeleton-coded doggos, or vice versa...

[@zendefta]

I wish I didn't read this. I just looked at the Companion Druid guide at maxroll and they have an aspect that doesn't let their companions die...? Plus, they can direct their damage to targets lol minion Necro is truly a joke

[@Erkekjetter.Vladislav]

@@zendefta As we all know from AJ himselt - the minion necro was NEVER meant to be an option and minions were only meant to be something on the side and not a main dmg dealer..

[@zendefta]

@@Erkekjetter.Vladislav That is just sad tbh. Idk why minion classes in games are either busted or dogshit, never in between. I think I can count on one hand how many games I've played that did minions decently balanced 😮‍💨

[@darkblue099]

@@zendefta It's the same reason Thorns aren't usually very powerful builds. When you introduce a system that deals damage passively for you, and then on top of it, you make that the MOST ideal way to deal damage, everyone builds that build, and the game becomes wildly oversaturated with those builds, and the devs see that as a failure, because the "good builds" should be ones with high skill expression, and challenge the players, instead of being lazy do-nothing builds.

[@majeh8060]

​@@darkblue099hmm I'm not sure those dashing spirit born at 300 kilometers per hour are that skilled and challenging to play. What about those mage creating 20 frost area in 1 seconds across 2 screens

[@SkullEZClap]

This video actually helped me a lot! Watched the first 5 minutes and I have decided to reroll to a different class. 👍

[@noway2509]

LMAO

[@maygodguideustohaven]

he didnt mention that damage is super low even with full 2ga gear and myhics

[@ASDFGHJKL12345-i]

lol yeah ive been not really vibing with this expac so far and i think half the reason is because i chose this build. meanwhile spiritmonks are just scrolling their mouse wheel and blasting 15x my dmg at turbo speed. good job blizz

[@maygodguideustohaven]

@Peatopher90 make sense it force casuals to buy expension. I can solo kill t4 boss but cant do pit 90 while they are able to do pit 150 lol

[@ASDFGHJKL12345-i]

@@maygodguideustohaven yeah it's a very transparent tactic in the gaming industry. Like how Riot makes champs with the most skins be OP for a while or any champ with a new expensive one OP or new champs in general be OP

[@charlesnairn9169]

Yes. 100% yes. Spotted the analogy pretty quickly. Enjoying mendeln now, (still gearing up to enter torment 3) but I have experienced that same frustration of knowing I could have beaten the content, but for the fact that my minions wouldn’t bloody attack the bloody thing I bloody know needed to be killed, not so much this season yet. The minions being able to be crowd controlled I’m actually ok with as long as their dps/utility provides fair compensation. Having no minions when rezzing during challenging content is a very frustrating, unpleasant experience, especially when there’s a timer ticking down and you’re struggling to get back up and going with your “ammo”.

[@yazuki-wolf]

I also think, and this isn't really counter to anything you've said, but there is a misunderstanding of what the "gamer dad" wants. There aren't any gamer dad's playing for 5 minutes a day. I think there are two types. There are the dad's playing for 2 to 3 hours a day after work who are engaged, watch guides online, and want challenging gameplay, just not gameplay that requires them to play for 40+ hrs a week, and then you have the other type that play for about an hour on one day they set aside on a weekend here or there. These guys aren't watching guides or really thinking about their build beyond that one or two day period during the week. The full mulch mode argument seems to apply to the former more than the later and I really don't know if the former is a sizable chunk of the player base. And if they are, well they already kinda solved the issue by giving us multiple torment levels. Just balance torment 1 to a level where you don't have to actively target minions to play and that player base would be happy with that while those seeking a more complex challenge will push the higher levels

[@alfredfishcock]

As a gamer dad, I agree with how you put this. I enjoy just watching everything die on my screen but I also like to challenge myself to make what time I game worthwhile. I agree that having my minions attack things off screen or not what I want, like I can with the golem, is frustrating to the point where I either just run through the level or just sit and wait while the enemy comes to me to die. I watch so many guides and videos just to get to a place where I can find a build that suits me but the higher I got in torments the more I just dont have the time to deep dives into builds for nothing to show

[@apocoplum2223]

Summon skeleton skill when you are at max minions should have 2 functions. 1) Are you targeting a corpse? --> summon priest. 2) Are you targeting monster (something with a health bar) --> force minions to target that enemy.

[@petespeedsxp4967]

just remove the summon priest buff all together and give it the "attack/move" function. it's not a fun or engaging mechanic since "nothing happens". Yes you get the buff but between all other abilities that actually "do" something it feels like a chore to look at it to see if its up or not.

[@courve]

@@petespeedsxp4967doesn’t need to be removed. Skeleton priest should just be a passive that activates like Mendeln. Every certain number of hits, it goes off.

[@yGKeKe]

Doesn't work well with controllers. ...Courve's version of making the priest a passive effect that isn't tied to an active does work though.

[@petespeedsxp4967]

@@courve well for me personally that's fine. i don't really care for stuff thats happening passively in the background. thats my biggest problem with mendeln as well. nothing happens. if it would change our minions appearance or something ok. fine. but the only way to know that mendeln proccs is seeing big junks of health going down on bosses. not really "creative" but its the best we got so i use it.

[@petespeedsxp4967]

@@yGKeKe macros idea to make the minions attack the target you have "locked in" on controller seems ok? i don't play with controller so no idea. but i totally agree, that it's a problem.

[@VoxIrati]

D3 minions were pretty cool. They summoned themselves every couple of seconds and you click the skill to target them. It cost essence to do but they gained a buff for a few seconds while doing it. You could make them heal you on hit, explode for poison damage, or gain attack speed, things like that

[@petespeedsxp4967]

As a minion player coming from poe, D4 minions need 2 things: 1) convocation, a skill that teleports ALL minions to your location on a cooldown and gives them a life regen boost 2) the "go attack that target!" button. There are too many moments in the game where your minions die because they are stupid af OR they dont damage stuff that needs to die asap. Andariel is a perfect example where minion AI is just the worst and the fight can become unplayable without the players fault. And it's not like it would be too hard to implement. there already is a teleport function in the game, when you get too far away from you minions. the heal on demand is already there and giving us a "target" button can't be too hard. just rework what "summon skelli" does when all minions are up to the convocation mechanic and give us a option to bind a "minion attack" button to mouse or keybod like grim dark does. I really doubt anyone will miss the "buff minions" mechanic we have today. little edit because i thought about the interview: the "fantasy" described isn't there. the summon priest buff is a chore to keep up, not a fun button that does anything and if you don't get a lucky hit corpse on a boss it feels bad. the only time i had such a "buffing my army!" feeling was, when playing with the army of the dead aspect, that buff your minions. Its on a CD, something happens visually and its a BIG buff.

[@trashcangoblin420]

This! Fuck skeletal priest - stop making me click this boring ass button 🎉

[@__jojo__]

also a minion player coming from POE, i definitely feel the absence of convocation and a mark/"attack that" skill and it really wouldn't do much to change class balance or APM requirements. necro just feels so much better to play in POE and can be way more chill. i'd also like to note it feels like minions in D4 are permanently set to "aggressive" behavior, which you only get from specific gems or items in POE, which causes them to go off and attack everything in line of sight which can get them stuck in areas or killed without a form of recall (like convocation). there needs to be some way to select what 'behavior' our minions are in to dictate if they return to our side & follow close by or go off & attack anything within range. that, paired with a simple button to say "hey, hit that" would do wonders for summoner QOL

[@petespeedsxp4967]

@@__jojo__ couldn't agree more! i like what others suggested in the comments of just getting rid of the summon priest buff and make it work as a "go attack this" button. like the golem kind of is already. as for good, maybe even adjustable AI and a "convocation" i guess thats just dreaming of something we will never get in d4.

[@Racemouze]

Definately something along the lines of: force minions to attack "here" or "this".. the amount of times my skeletons are off-screen fighting a white mob while i've stacked all the elites with with grasp.. I cannot count :D

[@cod-the-creator]

I forget which boss it was, but I swapped from minion to blood surge b/c some boss summoned these like totems with the missile immune auras, and outside of my golem stomp my minions would NOT attack them. They just kept beating on the immune boss. It took forever. I also just think the timer portion of undercity is poopy pants and will be completely removed sooner rather than later.

[@pierrengu]

sounds like andariel that one is such a pain for minion

[@metalskelly]

Andariel is so hard to kill as a summoner because of this

[@gmort6492]

A fairly simple solution would be to increase the minions available to you, and have some defensive ones who stay close to you, and offensive ones that have higher aggro. So basically defenders AND skirmishers, but defenders who actually defend, not run off like they do now.

[@texasvet5485]

I have put many 1000s of hours into the summoner build too. Since D2. I really hope they listen to you because for the first time ever someone has voiced my concerns that I have had with this style of play for 25 years now. Thanks man.

[@MrMetFanSC]

I have no idea why they can’t just have the golem “lead” the pack of skeletons to attack mobs and the skeleton priest skill should instead act like POE convocation skill and summon the minions to yourself. So if you want to send minions to enemies use the golem skill and everyone charges over to them and if you need to get everyone around you you use the skeleton kill

[@pixxyevil]

Possible Easy Solution: Add on to Kelan's Edict the following "Minions will prioritize attacking blight affected foes". Blight has its 20% dmg boost built into its kit so it seems like, thematically, the way to go. This would add minion control to the "All in" minion players that pick up Kelan's Edict (not many builds, if any, pick up this keystone unless they are all in on minions) and would prevent adding APM to the other minion variants that use other keystone passives that naturally have higher APM requirements. Anyone else think this could work??

[@pixxyevil]

Notably, this does not resolve the shooting into suppression, standing in an aoe issue. But i think this would be a viable stop gap towards a better system.

[@pixxyevil]

We also do not have a unique weapon that amplifies minions. A unique could be made that can be like this: Implicit: Minion Attack Speed. Affixes: Minion Crit Rate, Ranks to all Summoning Masteries, Increase to Minion Resistances, % hp increase to you and your minions. Unique Skill: Your minions do %X more dmg and will prioritize monsters Affected by blight. Minions affected by your skeletal priest gain unstoppable for [1-4] seconds after attacking a monster affected by blight.

[@trashcangoblin420]

I am the mulchmode fantasy Necro player - I want the ability to have a minion attack button. Mulchmode is about offloading the damage to your minions as much as possible and then buffing with curses, debuffs and being a conductor of an army - which also means directing them. Grim dawn; last epoch have this and it’s so helpful. Also yes - I too am a controller player and the minion aiming is ew.

[@Lagalpb]

I do believe the developers failed us. Most recent games have a better minion system, mainly due to the fact that we can't manually target a target. They are afraid of APM requirements but most of my actions playing minions is reviving them or using the boring priest to keep them alive. The customization got better, but it's still very limited to the standard melee/mages setup. Allow me to upgrade melee to range (usually bow) and mages into a melee type. Just look how amazing Necromancers are in LE or PoE compared to D4.

[@eddyram4932]

The best minions I have seen in an ARPG were from Inquisitor Martyr and the Tech Adept. You could build several ways and be proficient, you could send your minions to attack any enemy, you could make your minions focus any specific target with a certain weapon skill. Meanwhile D4 minions can’t fight their way out of a paper bag😂

[@blaynegreiner9365]

I keep forgetting to rebuy this game when it goes on sale as a bundle for like 90% off lol I played upon release and enjoyed it but it did have its ptoblems.

[@Sorain1]

I honestly wonder how the minions for the Hirophant class are going to control and be geared. Because yeah, Tech Adept was a pretty solid minion experience. It's not minion focused Acolyte from Last Epoch, but it has it's own flavor to play with. Heck, even Wolcen had a solid implementation of both a 'minions go here or attack this' key and 'using minion ability when minions are up has them do a special action at that target point'.

[@Ares42]

Isn't the solution just to make some of the core skill sub-skills mark their target as a priority for minions ? Druids already basically has this (where the active skill moves all the wolves to a specific target), and it doesn't change the amount of "APM" the build requires since you're already using a core skill as filler anyways.

[@Orthus100]

It's kind of funny that Druid Wolves function almost exactly how D3 skeles do.

[@HoosierLarry]

I often find myself asking if the developer(s) (of any game) have ever played other games of the genre or even their own game. That’s because the game is missing functions and features that were done well in other games. It’s also because if they had played their own game (beyond validating that the code works - which is another problem) then they surely would have encountered the same frustrations as we do. Then there is the problem of hidden game mechanics. It’s like playing a sport where the rules are only known by the referee and everyone else has to infer what the rules are from vague statements, observations, and testing. This is an observation I make of most games and a criticism of most developers, not just Diablo IV and Blizzard.

[@bigtabasco4660]

I used to wrangle my Diablo2 minions with Enigma. Something similar could be a stop-gap in D4 until they get the programming right for minion AI. Give us a Necro-only aspect that lets us tele-stomp a mob every ~10 seconds that brings our whole horde with us. No "extra skill" as Adam was worried about.

[@TheStephenation]

In a game where character mobility has been made so crucial, necromancers need a a mobility skill anyway. If D4 took skeletons off the skillbar, then the Skeleton Priest thing could be replaced with that necromancer transplant skill from Diablo 3. Have it gather minions in one spot while also giving the necromancer a mobility skill. It would address two problems with one button.

[@AzerithKovi]

If they adding so many things from d3 why they dont make that sumon skieleton skill like it was there for example: Active Attack target, minions are unstopable for "x" sec after you comand them to attack, if there are nearby corpse consume it to summon skieleton priest that buff dmg of your minions for 5 sec and heal them for 20%of thier max hp while buff is active (priest CD 5sec) Pasive Reanimate undead CD 2 sec, until u reach limit of "x" skeletones, if there is corpse nerbay you consum it to reset CD of reanimate

[@ZytheJR]

I want to feel like a commander of an undead legion. But i can't command much at all. There's a need for more tactical decisions that i can make.

[@godofm3tal1]

I think the answer is to configure the "raise skeleton" skill to have a different function when held. Instead of spamming the buff by consuming corpses when held, it now sends them to a target location. That way you're not having to give up a bar slot for that ability. It's integrated into the skill

[@mattsoukup1789]

On the druid, the wolf active makes them unstoppable on their way to pouncing on the target. In addition, I can target elites with it while I'm outside of a suppressor bubble. Wouldn't this be ~exactly~ what you're asking for?

[@etrosknight2254]

you would need mages to move inside suppressor bubbles, other than that yeah

[@TheStephenation]

Tying some necromancer abilities in Diablo 2 to corpses had its own share of issues, but those were somewhat mitigated because of two abilities that cared about the stats of the monster that generated the corpses: Revive and Corpse Explosion. Diablo 4 is attempting to keep the corpse use part of the necromancer aesthetic from Diablo 2, but without the actual functionality, so it just feels bad. Now, a lot of work has gone into the corpse mechanic in Diablo 4 at this point and just doing away with it probably isn't an option. But after this many seasons it has become eminently clear that the Skeletal Priest minion-healing thing is hopelessly lackluster and that losing your whole army when dying (and needing to wait for corpses to get going again) makes playing a Summoner necromancer uniquely punishing out of all possible builds of all classes in the game. Everyone else, even non-minion necros, gets punished the regular amount for dying in the game. We get extra punishment. This is very bad and should be addressed already. Speaking of Diablo 2, that old game let me have skeleton warriors, skeleton mages, revives, and one of three possible golem options. Why is it that this much newer game with so many more options in so many other ways only lets me have skeleton warriors, skeleton mages, and one of three possible golem options? Why copy the same thing from over twenty years ago, but use less of it? Book of the Dead is a shallow system. Necromancers should have had minion options on a skill tree. There was so much potential there, and none of it was realized. One of my favorite unique item concepts in Diablo 4 has been Deathspeaker's Pendant. This lets minions have some interaction with another skill that the necromancer is using. The effect has generally never been strong enough for it to occupy what's probably the necromancer's most valuable item slot, but in principle it's a really cool concept. In contrast, Ring of Mendeln just feels like an item that makes minions do damage, something that they should already be doing anyway. Just give necromancer minions more damage and let me use my ring slot for something else.

[@nannerstout3877]

You articulated what I couldn't understand was frustrating me with the build. I look forward to the next build you get rolling. Love your work

[@christophergarborg1863]

What you mentioned about optimal vs suboptimal is already in the game with Ring of Sacrilegious Soul. In S4 when I played minions for endgame, I already would adjust for the content I'm running. Sac ring for helltide, nmd, low pit then swap to a ring with a real aspect and affixes. The same can be true for a minion targeting skill. It would never be possible to perfectly program minion AI to where their auto targeting is all you'll ever need, but adding it as an option so that you can use it for content where it helps, and can disregard it when running the faceroll content. My worry is if it's a skill, it will need some form of additional benefit to the build since Necro already has a problem with not enough ability slots and not enough aspect slots S4 is likely the last time I play minions past leveling as well. As much as the fantasy is great, the build having one of the highest APM requirements but being worse than several classes and worse than other necro builds is laughable. The skeletal priest uptime is a joke especially combined with flesh eater uptime. It becomes a build where you have to keep up 10 different buffs all with short uptimes. I was so glad to see shadowblight gone for this reason.

[@deanbauer]

totally agree with the issues here, main one being that you can't specify targets and your dps gets spread out and seriously diminished. I haven't been able to do a decent undercut tribute with this build yet, thought I was doing something wrong.

[@ZyloWolfBane_]

There's two types of people who like Minion necro, and I'm both of them. I actually wish sac soul was more useful. Their argument about not wanting to make playing necro more complicated is BS on it's face, they already had a solution for this in Diablo 3! They could just make it so that your curses or other spells trigger them towards your target, you wouldn't even need to add another button for that. It's down to blizzard giving enough of a shit in DOING it. The other thing I've noticed since the launch of the expansion that a lot of boss rooms bug out our minions preventing them from entering, and because they aren't able to die or despawn I can't summon more of them. It was quite annoying in the dark citadel.

[@etrosknight2254]

They completely annihilated Sacrilegious Soul in Season 4, taking it from an auto-include on almost every build to trash you would never consider using. What they did was make it so it no longer procced Grasping Veins. Corpse Explosion became unusable garbage at the same time, I think because the tempering system just made the hybrid damage playstyle really bad. The Sacrilegious ring made summoner and caster Necros so goddamn fun, they may as well delete it from the game now

[@lord461]

The biggest joke is Blizz "improving" the ai for minions.

[@nycplayboy78]

BINGO!!!!

[@LeaveChildrenAlone]

The AI is better not a joke. They now go ahead of you and attack no need to tell them.

[@Chromatomic]

I’ve also noticed a lot more situations where minions don’t respawn before bosses and you have no way to regain them. Especially in citadel. But this feels like the only class doubly punished on death. Or losing even more time in the pit beyond the time penalty.

[@touhukongpha]

If Spiritborn had minions, they would be perma unstoppable, leap over any obstructions, do 1000x more damage, and auto respawn if Spiritborn ever died

[@ethanrodden8005]

The existence of ways to make a build more optimal doesn’t take away the ability to play it sub optimally and still have fun. Great video as always.

[@poipoi9816]

When I first played D4, I started on the necro. my build sucked because i was just putting points wherever, so the minions were actually doing a relatively large amount of my damage just by existing. I did my first dungeon, the boss killed my minions, and I had no corpses to get them back. Then I died and my minions stayed gone. That was when I swore off necro minion builds in d4 as log as you need a corpse to make them.

[@MichaelADemei]

I always start with minions, this video is exactly what I wanted to hear. Also can we get the minion glyphs to be worth something?

[@Orthus100]

It's nutty that the Warrior and Mage glyphs are still absolutely worthless.

[@TheOniklaz]

Minions can also glitch in couch co-op where they dont respawn, its very annoying and breaks minion builds

[@j0a0m4]

This is the reason I don't play minions anymore

[@Flohr]

I’ve only played Druid and Rogue on couch co-op until this season. My wife wanted to play a Rogue so I decided to play a Minion Necro. It has been a glitchy nightmare. Just switched to a pure Blood Surge build and sacrificed the minions even though its objectively worse for leveling because I cannot deal with this awful bug. I know all the hardcore players are on PC but couch co-op on Console is a really fun way to play and it bums me out that Blizzard doesn’t prioritize fixing it. Hopefully they will get to it eventually but until then I’ll never play Minions.

[@Guardian24829]

I've never really been a fan of "to have minions, you need a skill on your hotbar" idea, especially when Minions are so central to the conceptual identity of a Necromancer. Especially when I lose 2 active skills from my hotbar that I could be using to enhance what *I'm* doing - It'd be better if we had more minion-focused active skills to really flesh out the "commander" idea, if we're really just going to go the route of "all the focus in a minion build is on the minions" - give us more buffs for minions, give us ways to command them, etc. Or if not that, just give us a hotkey to tell the minions to target something....and let me put something else on my hotbar....

[@Sorain1]

Hotkey to target minions on an enemy or move them to a location (Contextual) and have the button do something after minions are out. This is well trod territory and best practices already exist.

[@undeathmetal1717]

My main issue with Minions is that the Butcher's AI is trained to spam a knockback ability against all minions that enter melee range, making it very difficult for melee minions to even hit the butcher, especially since it deals wildly high damage and often kills them anyway. So pure minion builds have difficulty fighting the Butcher, too. Meanwhile, conjurations are unaffected! Another win for Sorc, right guys?

[@jsak83-ro2cf]

I bet this dilemma is why they had minions so weak in the first place. It seems they probably envisioned minions as distractors first, damage dealers second. Why not make controlling them a skill passive or an aspect? All it would be is clicking a joystick, or any designated button that draws all the minions onto a target.

[@akfuu1953]

There are certain Tenets of Akarat I can't complete unless I bump down to a much lower difficulty and swap into a basic attack skill - all because I can't directly command my minions to attack the corrupted Tenet and break the squiggly thingies.

[@thet00nl1nk3]

I 100% would prefer a SC2 version of necromancer over what we have lol. D3 minions had their issues (mages looking at you) but that gave it some of the charm where you could at least teleport into the enemies and it'd carry them to you like it did in d2. Other arpgs already have a decent solution to just have a separate keybind for minion attack key. But for d4, just make skeletal priest a passive thing that happens as long as you have a nearby corpse like that one basically useless unique ring does and change the ability to command minions.

[@oaksmadoaks]

Simple toggle on/off button? On - attack specific target (mouse cursor) / Off - disabled?

[@subzero308]

I only play minion necro and I feel like I do not damage at all I'm in T3 wit masterworked gear and my golem does good damage but nuttin else really does smh... I really want s4 minions back. We def need a huge buff Minion Necro 4Lyfe...

[@Phantomz0n3]

I would say a core skill like a bone spike floor (like when you jump off your horse) where minions go for that target in general like bone spirit in bone prison but for minions and the core applies CC that would be awesome to

[@melancholy8881]

I completly agree. The only fun way to play minions is the golem because he is unstoppable and can fly. Too bad the design of ring of mendeln takes away the power from golem to the other stupid minions. Also, minions normally is chill gameplay but in D4 it can get veeeery spammy because of things like flesheater + priest + golem active + curse + blight for (20% multi) + reap (attackspeed buff and dmg reduction). Sadge

[@yGKeKe]

Those buffs are the entire reason I use Ring of the Sacrilegious Soul and Cursed Aura.

[@melancholy8881]

@@yGKeKe Yeah but with the bad stats on the ring and losing tempers + aspects you gimp your dmg by sooo much, you better play something else

[@kevuz94]

Spot on and I just hope they also find more ways to empower specific playstyles like Golem only or more viability of minions as Support. but my biggest wish would be being able to scale corpse Explosion properly

[@etrosknight2254]

Yes, I miss corpse explosion so much from Season 3

[@chimkiichan]

Fully agree. Coming from D3, I really don't understand why we lost the ability to focus targets with the minions. Druids can do this with their wolves, what's the problem with necro minions being able to? Another small gripe I have with minions is stepping on switches, traps, etc. I actually have to REMOVE my minions from my hotbar in order to interact with switch-based puzzles. Otherwise they just run all over these switches and literally prevent me from progressing through the content.

[@Blanshx]

so much added content completely punishes minion playstyle. from a long time necro minion player, great video ty!

[@BlackDinasty]

Infernal horde are the perfect example, if a mass spawn for me there is no way to kill it i can only launch my golem on it but the other minion just randomly attack monster and if I'm lucky they focus the mass but in the end is just stressful,jusy give us some accessibility option to turn on/off minion control or something like that

[@xyianth1723]

I'd actually go a step further. D4 needs a mark/ping target key that is not bound to skills at all. This is to support multiplayer communication, but would also solve the problem of targeting minions: minions prioritize marked targets.

[@yGKeKe]

Lmfao, the second he said, "A core skill"... I said, "You mean one that actually does something with minions? Something that has been missing from the necromancer skill tree since the start, which is weird considering minions are the necromancers most iconic way to play the game since Diablo 2? A button that interacts with all of the Core skill surrounded legendary affixes that is directly related to minions instead of Blight?" Honestly, the other day I was thinking about how the mage minions really should be like D2 where you get multiple elements of minions that all allow you to proc the various elemental effects: Chill/Frozen, Poison, Burning...whatever the hell lightning does in this game. I don't know how they would make it fit into the current Book of the Dead setup, but it's something they should 100% be looking into. EDIT: Okay, MBB went a completely different direction than I did, but I do agree about these being issues with the minion playstyle. Especially since the minion AI somehow got worse this season than it was when they fixed it before. This is actually why Enigma was mandatory on Necros in D2 after being implemented. (Which, surprise, MBB does mention in the video.) It allowed minions to be used as a targeted bomb by spawning them directly next to a boss or whatever. I would prefer it if D4's solution was NOT to poach teleport from sorcs. As much as I would like more tools to be borderline AFK while playing necro, I 100% agree that we also need more tools to be proactive with minions. PS: The reason minions aren't permanent and passive is because the original design was intended to require players to interact with the game just as actively as if they were using another class/build. That's why the minion button also summons priests. It was intended to be a CHOICE for you to use minions as part of your 6 buttons and for that CHOICE to have the consequence of limiting what else you could do. There's also the issue of what do we do about monster targeting if minions are invincible? Do they just run at the necromancer? Cause that's already an annoying part of playing minions. Do they just mindless hit your invincible minions? Removes a lot of the base line skill expression. There's ALOT of design choices and questions that need to be made and answered on this topic, and potentially reevaluated. I don't know what the ideal solution is, but I agree with the points you're raising and I hope there are serious conversations and ideas around minions and I hope the devs are receptive.

[@drunkendevil]

Agreed sir. Well said Hopefully this can lead to some changes down the line

[@guiolivier1234]

Yes, we need a way to target the skeletons, or a system that allows us to customize their behavior, but I also think we still need a larger army. DVEs could include D2's revives as a skill in the future. That would be really cool.

[@Phantomz0n3]

5:39 I would say a phantom minion something like a shadow minion that uses a basic but the basic does like double or triple damage but you need to build enough shadow up (or blood variant with blood orbs) to be able to summon it again 🤔🤔 this phantom can also be like a minion commander if it's up minions get a boost in speed n power but if it dies then they lose it

[@hctaz]

Okay commenting about stuff you say later on in the video: Yeah, I 100% felt the struggle of targeted content last season. I had a Minion Necro build that was absolutely DESTROYING everything. Tormented bosses melting in seconds. Uber Lilith getting destroyed. All the content was trivial and I was pushing into the hundreds of Pit tiers... But then I tried Infernal Horde and kept struggling. I kept dying a lot. I realized it was because I didn't have any control over my minions at all so like... I would REALLY like it if they beat up the guys rushing me down, but they're too busy standing over yonder smacking some other guy. They're too busy being frozen and stunned to be able to stop that horde of demons from killing me. The other thing I find fantasy-wise is something I mentioned in my other comment, but I feel like they probably need to focus on pure minions first before they start getting tricky... I just want to feel like there are build options for other builds with and without minions that are balanced on par with each other. Bone Spear with and without minions. Maybe one build focuses on your Skeletal Priest's Bone Spear damage instead of your own, and you spend your time and brain power on choosing your minion's targets and lining up mobs to effectively slaughter them instead of focusing on your own positioning, survival, and resources. Like take the brain power that you expend on a normal Bone Spear build and just switch it to focusing on your minions instead of yourself while you hang back at a safe distance. Maybe the trade off is that it's less precise and you, yourself, are much more squishy but you're a lot less likely to get attacked yourself. If you get caught out, you might die. If you keep a wall of minions between yourself and the enemies and play well, then you don't get owned.

[@mysticfaint]

I personally think they should have some kinda option like Barb does selecting weapons, to set a minion on passive or targeted. Passive could have it's own benefit of some kind, whereas targeting will take down specific enemies or bosses faster.

[@onlygravity]

Last Epoch allows you to keybind minion force attack to a key.... highlight over an enemy press A (default) ezpz. Even if we did way less dmg I would prefer having the choice to control them

[@rimehardt1776]

I think that one of the things that they could do is give the minions a priority list for targets. Bosses=>Elites=>normals. It would help but a command skeleton like D3 could fix it as well.

[@azbykker]

100% agree. Love the concept of the minion manner. D4 feels like trying to corral a bunch of kindergarteners. Didn't play D2 much, but D3 minions felt way better because of the command skeletons ability. I could target priority monsters, the let them go back to default mode. It wasn't micromanagement annoying that way.

[@dougcarstereo1093]

As always, that was really well spoken. It would be lovely to just have them spawned when I pick them, immune to damage or dying / CC etc. Then, we could utilize the skill button to have them directed onto the target of my choice. It’s just too clunky in a lot of the new content as well as old endgame content. Just want my damage to be on the target I need it to be on at the time I need it to be there.

[@marcrivkin3999]

Do we have a list of this build your showing somewhere? the Maxroll build doesnt use Golem and uses Blood Mist

[@MacroBioBoi]

My build planners are in my discord

[@BobbyBones-s8o]

Maybe a button added that regroups minions on you like a reset on them so you can direct them better

[@Lquadify]

That's the one thing that frustrates me with Necromancer how you can't specifically target a monster (except the golem kinda). In D2, in order to have your minions attack one guy is you'd have to have Enigma. Teleport on top of the target then they all attack the enemy they're on top on. In Diablo Immortal, I was impressed how you can press the skeleton minion skill and they would charge to wherever you were aiming at (just like you suggested). It would be nice to see this in this game.

[@daniellindsley]

@2:25 OMG, A HORSE SKILL? "Comes late game..." Check. "Can't really control it..." Check. "A wonky projectile that's blocked by walls or even small bits of terrain..." CHECK.

[@HeadlessOdin]

You hit the nail on the head here. Every season I play minion necro, and every season I give up after a few hours because it just isn't fun. Not only are we the least mobile class, we also can't aim where our damage goes. Is there another class/build that has these issues in D4? Like others have said, I'd drop skelly priests for the ability to aim attacks. I'm at the stage where I completed the VoH campaign and then stopped playing D4 altogether because I don't enjoy playing any of the classes now. However, I'm not sure I agree about making the skellys immortal. Other builds require an investment in either energy or cooldown to do their damage. Having a 1 time button press that does damage for the rest of the run doesn't seem like it fits with the game's design philosophy. I'm not sure how I'd solve it, though.

[@axelrisboul]

This is so accurate. This minion behavior basically makes infernal hordes so much more complicated than for any other class, you can't focus on key targets that gives you aether, you can't focus on a specific boss to equalize health bars, etc... i'm just here running around to make they respawn hoping they will target what I want. The mouse hovering would be such an improvement.

[@nazdravanix]

I've been playing Rogue for the last couple of seasons and every time I go back to Necro this issue slaps me right in the face. Thanks for laying out what I have been feeling in such a logical and concise manner.

[@lurkeymclurkinson1967]

Me having to use the leash range on my minions to get them to attack suppresor, defense aura monsters cost more apm and brain power than a minion target button. Not to mention all the other specific targets there are in dungeons. We had targeting in d3 why not d4 as well?

[@Demonl3ane]

It would also be really nice if the skeleton warrior mastery skill was at the core skill part of the skill tree so we can use empowering our skeletons as a method to get past the core skill part of the tree.

[@Roeland666]

Can you please please release a final minion build with all paragon points etc.?

[@Kaevannan]

An idea for a new core skill that could help: Minion core skill that makes all minions target a specific enemy. Let the two branches of the tree add either a blood or a bone tag to the minions while you're using the skill and for a short time after. Another thought that I know will never be implemented but which I think sounds cool: Let us fully customise our minions. Let us choose how many of each type of minion we get. What if we just get a minion cap (base 7, boosted to 11 with occult dominion), and we can also pick specific masteries for each? What if I want a single cold skeleton mage to apply vulnerable and ten shadow mages, or if I want 11 reapers with corpse generation? And let each mastery have a damage tag pertaining to necromancer skills and passives. Let there be a way to attach bone, blood, and shadow tags to each type of minion so that their damage can scale with necro bonuses from items, the skill tree, and paragon nodes in a way that allows the necro and the minions to buff each other and allow for hybrid builds. More valid and creative options will make for a better class.

[@DennisDewijs]

Im playing necro since the start of the game, i only like this class but have around 400-500hours in by now playing each season, i usually tried to play minion necro but most of the time switched to either Bone spear or spirit. I agree with you that this is an issue but i think most dads dont even recognise this and you got it just right! Thanks for all your hard work i always look forward to videos of you playing/teaching the Necro. Im kinda sad that youre going to leave the Necro but ill still watch your video’s❤

[@Douglas-nt7jd]

You could just make them prioritize monsters you have attacked. So if you cast shadowblight your minions will attack the monster hit by shadowblight and not the spider 2 rooms over in the corner

[@nadaconsta]

Great vídeo, really hope devs listem and act om these issues

[@XxAkoushxX]

The solution is really so simple now, Just use the same mercs “Reinforcement” system but for minions, where you can adjust what your minions do when you use a certain skill, get ccd or get injured.. I truly think this would be the best solution for all player types.. and it would be actually cooler than mercs where you can have separate orders for each minion type, maybe use the same interface for the book of the dead to assign this functionality..

[@CamBeulGaming]

Let's take a look at the book of the dead...Allow for a 3-way toggle between "attack", "defend", or "follow" -"attack" setting will have your minions out in front of you seeking enemies out proactively attacking them -"defend" they will hang back and not let mobs getting your melee radius easily. -"follow" they will split the difference but attack the same monster or area you are attacking. This would allow us some player agency and a recourse of how we want to play minions.

[@randramb]

With how many of the good bits of D3 are being introduced to fix the D4 teething issues, Command Skeleton really just sounds like the clean solution they should've already thought of... it's always been optional but better there, would be the same here..

[@os1no]

Exactly how I feel. It got especially noticeable last season when fighting Fell Council - all minions attacking different bosses felt very frustrating. Instead of "blasting", as Raxx puts it, you had to run around to manipulate minion AI into doing what you want. And even then it barely worked. I hope Blizzard will hotfix Jah rune to teleport your minions with you as a short term fix at least. That's actually how you controlled your army in D2 with Enigma RW or weapon swap for teleport. Great video Macro. I think if it gets to Blizzard's attention we might actually get a fun and all around working class archetype finally. We are so close to getting there.

[@jmims1983]

Path of Exile has an actual minion teleport. They could use a skill like that. I think it would be cool to have a feature where you could have minions attack that hard-lock target.

[@Private-Aye]

This vid resonates with me 1000%. It reflects posts I've written in the D4 forums - necro and PTR. Thematically, a necro is a commander of the dead - not a spectator or cheerleader. I want a very active minion play style, where I am controlling and buffing minions while debuffng, controlling, and damaging monsters with active skills that synergize with the minions. 1000% we need a way to direct our minions, or the minion AI needs major upgrade so that minions assist one another and prioritize targets boss > super elite > elite > elite's minion > regular monster. For example, it's super disappointing and frustrating when fighting the council in hoards and skeletons all split up into 3 teams of 4 skellies - each team attacking a different council member. I agree (based on end game gameplay today where necro face-tanks), minions should be immune to damage and crowd control, minions should not be targeted by monsters, and should always be summoned when not sacrificed. Note: Bone mages would need adjustment. If minions continue to take damage and CC, then all monsters should priority target minions over the necromancer, and minions should absorb damage done to the necro. It makes me mad that the butcher strictly targets the necro, totally ignoring minions - most other 'bosses' do this too. D4 devs need to decide once and for all if necro minions are skills. I could go either way, with a small preference for minions being skills, with proper skill tags and a small lucky hit chance (10% on skeletons and 35% on golem?). Today, minions are not skills, so minions should not take up spots on the skill bar. If minions continue to have 'active skills' then those should trigger automatically on cooldown when a monster is nearby. Optionally, the minion active skills could become skills in the necromancer skill tree, modified/customized further by book of the dead and paragon. If minions are skills, then make skeleton warriors a basic, summoning skill that generates 1 essence per hit, skeleton mages a core, summoning skill, and golem a core macabre summoning skill same tier as bone spirit. This way, minions will benefit from general +skills items (shako). Add lucky hit chance to skeletons (low, 10%?) and golem (mid, 40%?). Remove the current passives and put the corresponding damage in the base skill damage. Balance minions against other necro core skills. Skeleton mages should equal 1 core skill and golem should equal a second core skill. I still want minions to be tagged with damage the necro can scale. For example: Bone - Skirmisher, Bone Mage, Bone Golem Blood - Defender, Blood Mage (change cold mage), Blood Golem Shadow/Darkness - Reaper, Shadow Mage, Shadow Golem (change from iron golem)

[@LeaveChildrenAlone]

Run shademist with cursed aura and you will see a major difference.

[@mellogrx7593]

you not alone, i just wish i had fun with other classes. im stuck playing it until hopefully they decide to do something. i love my minions but its getting hard. I need some kind of real control.

[@blaynegreiner9365]

Could not have said it better myself and is a big reason I have mostly played blood builds since launch despite being an absolute hardcore minion/fishymancer in D2 for decades.

[@patches1927]

Agree 100% it drives me insane for both Minions and Companions that I can't control what they are regularly attacking. This are my favorite archtype in ARPG's, but it drives me crazy that I can't tell the minions to kill the shield mob so they can do dmg when so many other ARPG's have solved this issue.

[@Cratezthebox]

Thanks for all the testing you do, and the attention you are trying to bring to these issues.

[@aguile]

I have some thoughts about it, first of all, minions should be balanced to always be the first option to consider for the builds, those sacrifice passive bonuses should always be a secondary option not a primary one. They should have more options. Like on DI where you can choose in between your warriors, archers, a champion, a big mage, etc... give more options to support different builds and playstyles. I think they got the correct idea with the bone-spear mages activelly complementing your build, but for some reason, maybe laziness, they never touched that type of minions again. Also I believe they should not occupy a skillslot, at least for the skeletons, have them being raised automatically, change the active skill if you choose to slot it to summon a commander instead, giving the same bonus and also directing your minions to a specific target. That would give a good passive/active functionality for the skeletons and for minion focused builds, you'll have the Golem to supplement.

[@billy-joestanton2663]

what really saddens me is that they most likely will not fix this. ive played necro every single game necro has been a thing and it really does bother me when i have a pack of minions that just refuse to attack what i am targetting, they could focus down targets but its almost as if some of them consider the boss and then go - Nah ill go chase the imp 40 meters away and refuse to help in a meaningful way. also not being able to break a barrel or box next to me when carrying a sword because my minion skills have 0 attack component. if i could just hold shift and kick the box hell that would be enough.

[@TacomanMantaco]

There is a “marking” or “lock on” feature for the game. I don’t know any code or how any of that works but couldn’t it be that simple as to use that and your minions attack that monster?

[@Erieerie1717]

Being punished for using minions on certain mechanics really resonated with my experience. The second phase of Lilith comes to mind where I had to manually use golem skill to move out of the platform destruction and this weird work around took many extra attempts. Without some changes to this I don't see myself returning for all the reasons you've succinctly listed. Last Epoch has minion command button and it did not drastically increase my APM like Adam was concerned about. Path of Exile has convocate which is basically D2's Enigma.

[@Thunderspear85]

We need control of the skeletons, so frustrating when a certain monster needs to die but they wacking on the wrong target...

[@JRledford4173]

At the 1:35 mark, guessing the class needs something to make minions do better without any uniques.

[@fpblol152]

I feel like other necro abilities have similar issues to minions like corpse explosion. I think if blizz focuses on making endgame content that needs mobility and precision targeting, necro needs some love across the board.

[@vertigowren6919]

Glad i watched this video. I was planning to make a minion necro but pit 80ish while playing sweaty sounds bad. You saved me valuable time and frustration. Thank you Macro ❤