Macron's China Controversy Explained

[@miguellopes7627]

Although I agree with the EU becoming less reliant on the USA, I really think Macron shouldn't have said a word about Taiwan, also if he himself says Europe shouldn't get involved in crisis that aren't ours how will he convince countries in places like Africa and South America to help Ukraine with a war that is nowhere near these countries?

[@dillianwhyte443]

I think it is incredibly rich coming from a French guy. Should the US not of gotten involved in WW2 and helped Europe. I think the US would love to be less involved. It would mean they wouldn't have to waste as much military spending on aid to other countries. But unfortunately when the US told the EU to increase its spending on military it didn't listen. It also didn't listen on the Nord Stream pipeline was a bad move.

[@alganis3339]

I'm french and I don't like Macron but this stance is not very far from what France always said in the past too over Taiwan. I know Taiwan was a dictatorship at that time but France was one of the first country to recognize the CCP as the main governement of China and since they just avoid the topic.

[@josejoao1621]

Good point

[@cookingonthego9422]

Africa hates french. French are colonizing good chunk Discusting. Rusin merceneries figh french mercineries in africa all the time. Gues, who is the bad guy there. Hint: not Russia.

[@scvboy1]

They don’t. Nobody in South America or Africa really cares about Ukraine. Most countries that vote with Westerns just do so for financial reasons.

[@lordcola-3324]

I don't think anyone in the EU is opposed to a more autonomous military position (while still being allied with the US). I think what people are outraged about are his comments regarding Taiwan. Recognizing that a takeover by a bigger neighbor in Ukraines case would be indefensible but not in Taiwan case is a huge injustice and a ridiculous double standard. The people want our leaders to stand up to the bully countries and help defend the smaller ones that can't do it on their own.

[@hungrymusicwolf]

I'd like to second this. Pretty much everyone agrees on more autonomy for the EU, but the whole point about Taiwan is what pisses me off. Taiwan needs to be explicitly protected from China, no exception. No making friends with China as long as they keep threatening Taiwan.

[@DarthChungus-xl9jj]

France has sent naff all to ukraine compared to even the uk let alone america.

[@kierkegardashian]

it's France being France. They poke around and then they get invaded by Germany, twice, and both times they just cry and surrender 🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷 "In the name of the people of France, we surrender"

[@eliasrutten3814]

That's not what he said. One china policy does not mean giving a greenlight for invasion, he specifically mentioned maintaining the status quo. It baffles me how little analysis people do before giving an opinion...

[@GPDC100]

nato join US to attack iraq? bully, liar, hypocrite ?

[@zugabdu1]

As an American, the idea that Europe would want "strategic autonomy" doesn't strike me at all as illegitimate. I would argue thought that they already enjoy plenty of it. European countries were free, for example, not to participate in the Iraq invasion (and France was wise not to) and to criticize the US for doing it. What I find so astounding is his willingness to kiss up to Xi Jinping solely to spite the US, even though China invading Taiwan would cause a global economic disaster that would very much affect France. It is Europe's crisis, whether he wants it to be or not. As Trotsky said, "you may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you." Why does "strategic autonomy" require France to appease an expansionist dictator?

[@kamelkadri2843]

by not choosing sides he's saying we're choosing China we will continue supporting them by buying their goods and aiding them financially and leaving the US to it's own demise, that's about as good as a declaration of war against the US because they would literally be helping China

[@Habib_Osman]

We are not enjoying any autonomy Mr. American. We have been your lapdogs since being freed from nazi-occupation and it is time that we start making our own decisions.

[@K3nM3g]

Well we also need to understand US ruined his military contracts, badly handled the US interest rates, badly handled energy exports to EU and the suspicious nord stream case.

[@jl63023]

France is known for its appeasement tendencies. Macron is just one successor of that very old tradition

[@PeterMuskrat6968]

@@jl63023 He wishes he was De Gaulle… but instead he really is just Felipe Petain. Let’s remember that France wants Europe to be “Strategically Autonomous” from the US so that FRANCE could be the European leader. The fact of the matter is that France wants its empire back, and not just the one that they still keep in Africa. Good luck getting an Eastern European onboard. Gonna cause Europe to split down the middle, and the US is just gonna support Eastern Europe. If Europe becomes economically dependent on China (which is Xi’s goal and Macron’s as well) than Europe is gonna have the surprised Pikachu face when we end up having to blockade China if they try to invade Taiwan.

[@learchie8048]

"Europe doesn't want to get caught up in a great power competition" it's solution is to become an independent great power that will then compete in great power competitions. As a Canadian watching French apply their special brand of logic i find this hilarious

[@frenchempire9471]

Same here as an American

[@fabs8498]

As a canadian you are really far of Europe.

[@thatguythere98]

@@fabs8498 do you live in the 1800s or something?

[@Sujal9253]

Macron's statements that he doesn't want to get caught up in a conflict that's not his just shows the hypocrisy of European leaders because they were repeatedly pressuring my country to sanction Russia and stop buying Russian oil.

[@Homer-OJ-Simpson]

The thing is Marcon isn't actually concerned the EU should be less reliant on the US, he wants the EU to becomes reliant on France. He want's a France led EU.

[@krombopulos_michael]

I don't see why European autonomy is being treated as synonymous with being friendly to China and indifferent to Taiwan. I agree that Europe should seek to be less reliant on the US for things like military support, but I don't see what that has to do with China. The US protection of Taiwan is not just some pet project, and the main beneficiaries of Europe contributing to this are the population of Taiwan, not the US. Additionally, wariness toward China doesn't need to just stem from the US seeing them as a rival. China is a severely authoritarian country that does not align with current European democratic values. After making the mistakes of being so close to Putin, Europe would do well to not now try to get cosy with Xi Jinping the same way.

[@blankityblankblank2321]

Its not only systems of governmet issues with China, it iss also trade issues.

[@MegaBanne]

China is the greatest threat to european autonomy, but it makes a quick buck and the french are greedy.

[@oldbloke135]

So why suddenly say it after visiting the communist dictatorship?

[@MegaBanne]

@@blankityblankblank2321 Yeah, the french do not care about democracy.

[@lv3609]

There are countless severely authoritarian countries not aligned to European democratic values, just look in Middle East countries, even Taiwan was dictatorship not long ago. And like European countries, USA also trade happily with those severely authoritarian countries.

[@SA-po2gy]

it still amazes me that Macron was spineless for so much time - first willing to sell eastern europe when the war in Ukraine startedm and now this scummy move

[@ricardoxavier827]

UsA+UK+Australia betray a long time profitable submarine business, when was already almost finished the deal. They are not economic friends of EU anymore. You dont priorize in business, who betrays you.

[@vincentcampaert8497]

Why die for Taiwan?

[@tooeasyy5287]

@@vincentcampaert8497 Why die for Ukraine?

[@mrwoozie1735]

He is a globalist. Enemy of the people.

[@vincentcampaert8497]

@@tooeasyy5287 Ukraine is a local conflict, Taiwan wouldn't be.

[@MM-un3ob]

I do not understand, as a very pro-EU European that supports further integration as well as the idea of strategic autonomy, why we have to choose between siding with our allies (Japan, USA, Korea, other democratic powers) and obtaining strategic autonomy. If anything, one complements the other. We have to be a strong independent power so that we can measure up to our allies and have a saying in what they do (e.g. discourage another Iraq-like debacle), as well as be able to defend ourselves so that the US can focus its resources on protecting our key allies' borders in other continents. Why can't we be an independent power that still takes a stand against autocratic imperialism???

[@pairofdaftoldbuggers]

The problem is the EU can't make a decision

[@musicheaven1679]

Eh it's a really complex topic but it boils down to the fact that the EU currently is dependant on the US for it's protection and has followed (with Germany as an exception) US policy around China since WW2. "Sucking up to China" as people say, I believe is simply to keep the EUs options open. After all, while it's something nobody seems to be talking about, the EU could very well play both sides as both sides want the EU. Side note, while I have 0 evidence for this, I do believe that Trump's presidency may have caused the EU to reconsider if it can truly trust that the US will always be ruled by someone willing to commit resources to the EU and most importantly, one that won't drag it into a world War.

[@johncooper3404]

Thats a lesson the french have failed to learn for over a 100 years. Surrender monkey's

[@BrezhnevStan]

Because the US caused over a million deaths in an imperialist war against Iraq's people.

[@BigmanDogs]

Because EU's position will be even better if it can maintain good relations with both China and USA at the same time. And not being too economically reliant on USA. China and EU have no geopolitical conflicts. It's only USA that makes territorial claims in the pacific.

[@Somerandomguy524]

We have seen this with Germany too, it seems being surrounded by allies for so long has made these countries complacent, while geopolitical adversaries eat away at the EUs borders and more vulnerable member states.

[@Seanw-ij7yx]

u talking about the war america instigated? LOL cope clown.

[@Homer-OJ-Simpson]

EU needs to step up and become less reliant but Macrons position on Taiwan is BAD. In addition, he chose the wrong time to make such a statement. Marcon isn't actually concerned the EU should be less reliant on the US, he wants the EU to becomes reliant on France. He want's a France led EU. France often acts against the EU when it's not in their interest. They are often able to do this because they are supported by resources from their neo colonies in West Africa. On geopolitical issues, it seems like France and Germany are often at odds with the rest of the EU. Eastern part of the EU and Sweden/Finland have serious concerns with Russia and thus to an extent also China. France and Germany might be a combination of trying to maintain autonomy and big trade with China (and Russia for Germany) that they end up often arguing different than the EU.

[@nataliejarosz9360]

@@Homer-OJ-Simpson I'm not even a Euroskeptic, yet Macron's and Scholz's attitudes show how much they -especially Macron- are willing to blow off us Eastern Europeans as soon as we're "inconvenient."

[@voicpanov3594]

rodrigo, are you ok, what geopolitical adsversary is eating away eu's borders, did you mean geoplitical adversary who is scaring eu in submission

[@andrewleblanc1670]

It better china wanna build a currency with ya one min attack ya borders the next like they did to India

[@janissaryone1906]

Someone once said "For evil to foster, it only takes good men to do nothing." Europe has reneged on it's own security commitments. It didn't intervene in the Balkans when the ethnic cleansings were being done in it's own backyard. It deliberately courted good relations with Russia to get cheap oil/gas turning blind eye on the expansionist forays Moscow was undertaking. As another famous leader said "I don't fear a competent enemy, I fear an incompetent ally."

[@monacophotographyevents2384]

And the French are World leaders in doing nothing.

[@ylstorage7085]

Do something about Azerbaijan invading Armenia right now? Oh no, you can't, Azerbaijan is selling you oil and gas... Azerbaijan is not a democracy and Armecia is? oooomf, that's hard to reconcile. Hopefully we are not building up new Janissary corps to restore the mediteraian to the in the inner lake of the Ottomans?

[@sobieckil07]

This is most of the reason why current Polish government acts extremely friendly towards USA while butting heads with Brussels time and time again: a lot of us simply see USA as much more reliable partner in any economic or military based discussions, it really boils down to just that. And regarding Macron's comments it follows the trends of his other policies: good idea in theory, poorly thought out in practice.

[@ylstorage7085]

@@sobieckil07 2 deficient Democracies that love each other.

[@paulyu7739]

Great words

[@DiviAugusti]

Of course Europe should have autonomy and not be led into a direction they are uncomfortable with. I think the main problem is the sentiment that he thinks Europe shouldn’t interfere with the Taiwan matter. That could change the whole calculus of the matter and help Xi decide he should strike now. In the event that the USA’s “America First” isolationists take over and America washes its hands of Europe, I also fear there would be immediate quarreling between European powers. Maybe worse eventually.

[@maxbenneton2328]

Apparently they’re all big boys and don’t need the US. Let’s see how that works out for them. Make it so that if we have to come to their defense there will be no discounts or grants. Everything paid for, up front, at face value.

[@GPDC100]

europe dont even dare to fight russia still?

[@chihaya2299]

The second paragraph did actually happen but was overshadowed by how outrageous D. J. Trump is. For example during Covid19, remember how certain countries get the effective vaccines first but certain parts of EU were more in need of having them. But what was in the news, Trump's advice to drink detergent as preventive measure for the virus.

[@birdstwin1186]

If France makes good on its desire of not helping America'a allies in Asia, America would definitely abandon Europe. France and Germany then would have to do the heavy lifting when Russia invades Georgia again, or when they target Moldova, or if there is a second Russo-Ukrainian war, or when Lukashenko dies and he decides he want to annex Belarus. Please, France, give the isolationists in the US all the ammo they need to get USA out of Europe.

[@marcm.]

I was never an isolationist, and I hate that jackass ex-president for the things he's done to my country. But macron has convinced me that we don't really need to be involved in Europe anymore. If you don't want us as allies that's fine... Go away handle your own problems

[@snoozfest2000]

If we don't support Taiwan, why should anyone support Europe in its time of need? Democracies have to support each other to stand a chance. Especially since the armies of Europe are hardly up for the task to defend itself from Russia or China. We need allies if we want to preserve our way of life. But this involves us to stand with others also, in their time of need.

[@arx3516]

👍

[@sueyourself5413]

Taiwan has nothing to do with us. Why do you people want to start conflicts with nuclear super powers? Is Russia not good enough? Better give those regions back to the Ukrainian fascists so they can continue to bombard the residents.

[@skp8748]

Support Taiwan?? You mean roc

[@Robrulz666icloud]

Well said 👍

[@ArkBlanc]

@@huggybear441 Taiwan is a legitimate, sovereign democratic nation, NOT a part of China.

[@Cosmosisification]

Macrón- "Just because the front of the boat is on fire doesn't mean WE should help fix it. I think the back of the boat shouldn't involve themselves in the affairs of the front of the boat."

[@strasbourgeois1]

We need a replacement. New president, or a new regime entirely! I say a constitutional monarchy. À bas la Republique!

[@louiscypher4186]

@@strasbourgeois1 You will get a new President and he'll be a clone of Macron policy wise.

[@saundyuk]

@@louiscypher4186 Oh I dunno - at the rate Macron's becoming hated by his own people, the next French president may well be a woman...

[@strasbourgeois1]

@@louiscypher4186 I pray not

[@Chris-qc6mx]

Literally one year after calling for help putting out the fire in the back of the boat. Which the front of the boat is still actively helping to put out...

[@ozzell]

Such a weird thing to say just as the US is helping Europe with the Ukraine war.

[@HZV1492]

Yea a war the us has provoked

[@renaudfilippi2599]

US is helping US destrying Russia, Putin cannot and don t want to invade EU. Macron never give green light to china to attacks taiwan.

[@2goober4u]

Lmao both comments were deleted by youtube

[@kgmv4798]

Exactly! Maybe the US should take his shitty advice and stop underwriting EU’s security like it has for the last 70 plus years. EU’s most peaceful years too I should add.

[@r841-m5w]

People seems to forget why eu and usa should work together. Dont worry france is not leader of eu. He is just dickless frenchman. We support usa and taiwan in this.

[@runeeskesen5920]

I'm not much of a geopolitical mastermind, but cosying up to a dictator who got 2960 votes for him becoming dictator for life, with 0 abstaining and 0 opposing, seems like a really stupid idea.

[@justinrandomnamenandstuff]

They just really really like him (sarcasm). I mean look at all the great things coming out of China: hacking your military, government, energy, intelligence agencies…world wide pandemics, modern day slavery, modern day government sanctioned and committed genocide, conjuring up border disputes based on maps from the Bronze Age… so much more great things to list! Who wouldn’t want to vote for the guy. I mean you could not vote for him but then your family would “go missing wink wink”

[@tiexiaowang7939]

With allies like that, who needs enemies?

[@sevrynthorndyke3675]

France complaining about the "extraterritoriality of the dollar" is deeply ironic given the economic vice grip France has maintained in northwest Africa.

[@macsanatic]

Crazy right hence Mali in Africa kicked them out.

[@Alhmaleonn]

@@macsanatic They are still using Franc-CFA though

[@matheusferrao]

The same man that asks for world solidarity towards Ukraine denies it to that same world.

[@Kentalot]

FYI, the world is not in solidarity towards Ukraine. Well they are, but not with the west.

[@-_YouMayFind_-]

Well because its a fight between autoritar8an regime against democracy which is very impirtant to US as well. They are the ones claiming to be the example. Which in fact they are not

[@alicianieto2822]

This actually comes straight from how he/we perceives the situation in Ukraine, and USA's behaviour with the EU through it ( and from earlier years) than from Taiwan itself, so there is no contrafiction at all, quite the opposite. Consider too that the legacy of the last two trade wars, of trump, and if Obama spying on the EU have not vanished either. Trying to force a conversation among his colleagues, or a rethinking in USA majes perfect sense

[@alicianieto2822]

They also are the ones making a lot if profit by selling to Europe at higher prices the things they can no longer get from Russia due to the sanctions USA wants them to keep. The situation isnt that simole, but this part of the situation doesnt spell teamwork, especially if yiu take it together with all the other thibgs thatchad happened from Irak on

[@bl4ckb3ll]

It's a different case. Russia is invading ukraine, an independent country. China taiwan is unsolved civil war within a country. So it's totally wrong to intervene china taiwan.

[@giantWario]

It's not just Macron's comment about Taiwan that pisses me off, it's the fact that he really seems to believe that he can talk for the whole EU. Ever since Merkel left, he really seems to think that he's the new dominant voice in the EU and that everyone else should do what he says because he knows better.

[@Conartist666]

That not really new behaviour. Macron already behaved like this back when Merkel was in power. He likes the spotlight and having his "radical" ideas. Merkel always reacted the same way germany always reacts: by keeping distance and waiting.

[@MistressOP]

Well Merkel kinda sucked too. Had she been more forceful with Russia instead of being foolish she'd had bit thebullet but avoided a larger war.

[@ab.7272]

He's a narcissistic psychopath... who only cares about his social status

[@DudeWatIsThis]

As a Spaniard, I'd rather have a Frenchman speak for me than some Kraut. France isboth the most powerful country in the Union, AND has both Southern and Northern European interests, meaning it will not completely ignore the South like Germany did.

[@giantWario]

@@MistressOP Context matters though. Back when Merkel was trading with Russia, absolutely nobody would have imagined that Putin would just straight-up invade all of Ukraine, not even the Ukrainians. Remember that when the Americans first said that the intel they had suggested Putin was about to invade, even Zelensky himself didn't initially believe them. So you're saying that with the benefit of hindsight.

[@Zikar]

Europe probably should have strategic autonomy... but saying such things JUST after a visit to China makes it seem very much like he's saying Europe shouldn't get involved in Taiwan, that that is just something between China and the US. The thing is, dictatorships attacking, or trying to invade democratic countries, should be something that all democratic countries should fight against together.

[@tott598]

Macron is a dictator himself, still enslaves miliions of Africans with the french monetairy system, he has no moral agenda, just strategic ones.

[@tagasus29]

Agreed, we should punish China if it invades Taiwan. But the US is looking like it is willing to join that war. I don't believe there is support within the EU to join the war aswell. Instead I would expect the EU to apply sanctions and deliver weapons.

[@erozionzeall6371]

So invasions are fine only when the US does it?

[@hungrymusicwolf]

Exactly this. For all our disagreements, no democratic government should tolerate an invasion of another democratic government by a dictatorship. We can talk or fight out our differences outside of that, but democracy needs to come first before all. Letting dictatorships start returning to power would be one of the biggest catastrophe's in the history of mankind. If you thought dictatorships were bad during the 20th century, imagine what they can do with modern spying technology and modern economies?

[@alganis3339]

If China invade Taiwan the EU will do economic sanction but will not join the war it's just that. The US is trying also to cut most of their economic ties with China and is pushing the EU to do the same but the EU don't want. So the question is not on which side the EU is (ofc it's on the US one) but it's more about how far would we follow them and the answer is : Not in a war with China.

[@wilsontheknight]

That’s really rich coming from the country that interfered in almost every continent at one point in time.

[@Mr--_--M]

Dude.....WW1 & WW2, the French didn't go with the team's game plan and both times they had to get saved. And here they go again!!!

[@notajetplane]

By not choosing a side, you end up choosing a side.

[@miguelpadeiro762]

The "we will not fight in that war" side

[@derekscanlan4641]

the swiss would disagree

[@trillionbones89]

@@miguelpadeiro762 the "I'll let the stronger one decide" side

[@trillionbones89]

@@derekscanlan4641 you do realize they also joined the sanctions against Russia, right? They are neutral, not stupid.

[@PerryKobalt]

@@derekscanlan4641 heck Swiss has already ended their Neutral Policies and Growing Support join EU and NATO soon

[@That1fellaAU]

I rarely say this, but trump is unequivocally right on that one, macron was absolutely kissing china’s rear

[@Habib_Osman]

Yep. Which is a great thing to do. Making war and squabbling with eachother gets a nation nowhere. Just look at the stupidity of USA's politics. If that is their example, I don't want to follow it!

[@andyreznick]

Yes. Trump should know from ass-kissing. Thinking about Helsinki here...

[@KarinaLopez-lz6ok]

The country with clean Air, that does NOT pollute the planet burning COAL and does NOT pillage all ocean sealife at all!! So, we are fine

[@yucateco14]

Or he was just bribed

[@MB-xw3nr]

If Europe has this mentality toward Taiwan it would be scary to think if the US had this mentality toward Ukraine..

[@MrBah-tw3gt]

Europe is wary because they knew that the US started the war in Ukraine.

[@MrEvol94]

macaroni isnt europe, just a weak leader that looks up to dictators

[@outerspace7391]

No, it wouldn't

[@sjhassjh3941]

what has europe gotta do with usa or eu? is it in atlantic

[@panzerofthelake506]

​@@sjhassjh3941 Why would we help you if you don't help our cause

[@chris582]

While I agree that the EU shouldn’t follow the US hook line and sinker, and not be dependent on it, I’m not sure pivoting to China instead is the way to go. So from vassal of the US to vassal of China? Sure, pick the autocratic country where the president overrode the term limits to stay in power by sheer will, to say the least.

[@nashwise4everGM]

What if there is no vassal? What if EU being a poker player instead of being US poker chip?

[@tianlezheng6829]

欧洲就不能做自己吗？非要当附庸？

[@aximilian15]

@@nashwise4everGM What China is trying to do is weaken EU and U.S relations. I think being allied with a democratic government is better than being allied with an authoritarian regime.

[@MrRodinhas84]

Classic Anglo whataboutism, the past decade it was "wtf Europe why aren't you bending the knee and sending troops to kill middle Easterners after 9/11??? Do you guys like terrorists or something?" willfully ignoring all the shitty behaviour America did before and after in the region over a resource (oil) Now it's "wtf Europe why aren't you bending the knee and making China an enemy??? Do you guys love dictators or something?" Willfully ignoring all the shitty behaviour before and currently during these tensions in the region over a resource (semiconductors) Let's not forget that fucking over parties you negotiate and pretend to help with is literally how your country was made (the fucker on your 20 dollar bill literally broke supreme court rulings in favour of Amerindian land owning just cus he thought he was real cool when killing Amerindians, and is revered as a great leader of your land) and how your country has always acted

[@sleepyatdawn7648]

@@nashwise4everGM Thats how it is now. The EU and US are allies, this whole "follower" thing is nonsense.

[@ilgamerdiventura1851]

We Europeans have to get back on our feet again. If something happens and USA can’t help us what would happen? Besides the Americans that are against this idea I think we really need to be able to protect ourselves again if needed without anyone intervention. It would spare time , money and lives for the USA citizens or I’m wrong?

[@crabLT]

First and foremost, we need to stamp down on immigration and finally control our outside borders.

[@unity2702]

Is the american government against the idea really though? If that is the case we wouldn't be helping ukraine so much right now, more than most of the EU.

[@westrim]

I'm not sure there's any faction of US politics that disagrees with the sentiment that Europe should be capable of defending itself (as long as we keep our basing rights and get a piece of the expanding pie of military sales). The disagreement is on whether it's a secondary issue or a primary one in US/Europe relations.

[@westrim]

​@@crabLT Have replacement level numbers of kids before you cut off the supply of labor.

[@monkeeseemonkeedoo3745]

The US is helping Ukraine right now, which is Europe's crisis. But macron has no qualms saying Europe would not aid America in defending Taiwan. He sees this as 'getting dragged into conflicts which are not our own'. Worse, he says this AS the ccp does invasion simulations like 10 miles off the coast of Taiwan. This is the worst possible timing he could have chosen, and his words won't be forgotten here I think.

[@westrim]

This is similar to what he was doing with Russia before 2022, and if he doesn't see that (or its dangers) he's a bigger fool than I gave him credit for. Doing anything that suggests that a major power can conquer a minor one and absorb its territory without severe consequences is a particularly basic level of foolishness, because it makes the odds of it happening more likely. Actually standing by if it does happen will do nothing to endear them to China, just confirm Frances status as subordinate puppets of a regime hostile to most of its values. The US, ironically, will be upset, but still a firmer friend than China ever will be. It won't be the first time France slapped them in the face or stabbed them in the back or left a mess.

[@cmolodiets]

Many countries like brasil, india, south american and african countries refused to vote or apply sanctions against russia. They therefore suggest that a major power can conquer a minor one and absorb its territory without severe consequences. You don't complain about it. And they weren't even asked to declare war, just vote sanctions

[@8088I]

Haha! Macron only brings the fight to the French!

[@8088I]

Yup! Putin made a Fool of Macron! And, Macron complied with flying colors! Encouraging Putin with his Complicit "Narcissistic" Naivety!

[@8088I]

Unn..n--Fortunately, Macron only answers to the Corporate Elite! Sadly, Not France, Nor God - himself. So, Saad!

[@M1187-t6b]

I don't think that's the case. countries will not be absorbed if Taiwan returned back to China. It is just there are only few hot spots remaining around the world such as Taiwan, Palestine, eastern europe, Cyprus. Etc.. that need to bresolved based on the historic context and justice. 70 years ago, many of these countries were not strong enough to take what is their right due to huge gap in power between them and the west, but now, those countries are growing and the gap is getting smaller and they will ask for their rights . So the solution issetting together and solve the problems peacefully. Of these hot spot areas got resolved, there will be nothing else to ask for from those countries. Eventually, I don't think taiwan should concern europe , it's better to be solved peacefully and move on rather keep having these completely avoidable conflicts.

[@Fredreegz]

It’s also interesting to see the UK pivot to a more USA / Asia-Pacific focus, while the EU are moving away from US / Asia-Pacific focus.

[@saundyuk]

The irony is that Europe always call us 'little britain' and accuse us of navel-gazing, when actually we're picking strategic alliances and its the EU that's self-absorbed and constantly obsessing over it's position in the world.

[@alm9322]

Only part of the EU is following this trend. Central&Eastern Europe, Scandinavia, and to some extent Southern Europe still wants to have strong ties with the Americans. It's really only France and Germany's left-wing that doesn't want American influence.

[@TheRealIronMan]

@@alm9322 And that's why Central & Eastern Europe will remain forever irrelevant while blaming Western Europe for its own mistakes, when you blindly follow America you get the colonization you deserve, America will destroy any chance of your countries having a real industry, enjoy poverty in 20 years.

[@srpskihayk]

That is odd since France still has slaves in the Pacific.

[@srpskihayk]

@@alm9322 Macron is not leftwing. He is centre-right at best.

[@Sweet_Pup_g]

It’s great that Macron has a plan for Europe and expects the EU to follow his lead automatically. So much for autonomy.

[@cmolodiets]

I don't have the fealing Europe has ever followed his lead

[@jjsamuelgunn1136]

He said no more than what POTUS says on behalf of Europe.

[@antoinebaldur2941]

Those who think that Macron or anyone else can lead the European Union alone do not understand very well how the European Union works. Each country has to choose sides on every issue. Some create a coalition against nuclear energy, others will create one for nuclear energy. If a country is not interested, it will be courted to join one or the other. It's all about influence struggles, even the US has its afficionado groups led by Poland. They criticize each other, they go to the media to say that the other is bad... And in the end they find a compromise. But hey, that's democracy.

[@falsevacuum4667]

@@antoinebaldur2941 Thank you for your level-headed response in this mess.

[@mandrews1245]

You never know. He may be voicing what most EU countries think. (not EU Brussels who are totally in US camp). Just like BRICS... when it became a possibility countries began to line up for their membership in the hopes of having an alternative to the US$.

[@BestPrezz]

I think even the USA would want an autonomous europe, so they dont have to "babysit" us anymore and can use their money for something else (god forbid healthcare lol), but autonomous doesnt mean we cant be strategic partners. Saying we shouldnt help if a Taiwan invasion happens is like the best reason for US to pull out of Ukraine.

[@12time12]

Of course, we Americans support a sovereign and strong EU. That is good for all of us in the west. What got folks angry was primarily the Taiwan issue, macron came across very poorly on that imo.

[@kingace6186]

Americans always harp on Europeans needing to reform their defense spending and industries. But that doesn't mean to hell with NATO and non-European democratic allies.

[@BestPrezz]

@@12time12 yeah that was fucking stupid. I'm not an expert but as far as I know, Tawain is a microchip chad and it SHOULD be in the interesst of the whole west, that china doesnt get this advanced tech and the companys behind it in his hands. Its navy also would have then an secure open acces to the pacific. Dont know why macron doesnt give 2 fucks about it.

[@BestPrezz]

@@kingace6186 and they are right! One of the things I totally agreed with trump, was when he said the NATO members should spend the 2% GDP on their defense, like contract said. Why sign a contract if they dont do it?

[@Justin_Ebright]

What healthcare is that? We have medicare, medicaid, wic, snap, etc. There's no point in the US where you'll get a denial of service regardless of healthcare status. If you cannot afford medications there's federal, state, and private groups who will help pay no questions asked. If you have medical bills you're not going to lose everything and there's ways to take care of it so it doesn't wreck your credit and you will not face legal jeapordy. Just because you do not understand the American healthcare system and adjacent social programs it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You just like to be taxed for it upfront where we prefer to be billed at service. And anyone suffering to pay or lacking health insurance only needs to suck up their pride and apply for help. The hardest part of that is having them admit they need help.

[@its_a_MADD_world]

Macron "let's not get involved in conflicts that don't concern us." Meanwhile numerous Asian countries helping Ukraine, and in effect Europe.

[@miguelpadeiro762]

The supply support much of the world is doing to ukraine =/= going to war with China, the world's manufactory

[@tagasus29]

In a Taiwan - China war I would expect us (the EU) to apply sanctions and deliver weapons. But we should not be joining the war on either side. Just like our asian partners have done in the Russo-Ukraine war.

[@sleepyatdawn7648]

yeah, Macron needs to STFU and take care of his own people, which he cant even do.

[@eliso5973]

numerous Asian countries helping Ukraine? is it a joke?

[@SimplyVanis]

@@tagasus29 Exactly. Asian partners simply support. Taiwan and US has enough countries supporting each other, there is basically no place for EU to help. We can only help isolate China like we did with Russia.

[@YagrumBagarn]

Sooo when the USA protects Europe all is good but when it's time for US Europeans to have their back, Macron pulls the classic "we shouldn't intervene in problems that are not ours" move. This infuriates me so much.. that some European leaders can be such spineless buffons.

[@guydreamr]

Strategic autonomy is one thing, throwing Xi a bone on Taiwan is another. Macron may wish to reflect on the fact that the increasing power of the authoritarian axis, no matter how remote from Europe, imperils that region as well. A rising tide threatens all coastlines.

[@PeterMuskrat6968]

He is practically a wannabe dictator at this point anyway. He overruled the populace and ignored France’s parliament to pass the Retirement “reform”

[@jonb914]

Exactly, you should _autonomously_ consider democracies being trampled by authoritarian regimes a bad thing without the US tugging on your ear.

[@Makkushimu]

RE: Was Macron played? The answer is yes, but not just him, the entire world was played. As a kid, I remember listening to the news about moving production to China, and thought "but they're a communist regime?" Then I heard about moving energy production to Russia and thought "but they're an authoritarian and former communist regime?" "Oh but we can see unprecedented financial growth throughout the world!" I wad told. "You're just a child, you don't understand the big picture!" The so-called adults back then said. Yes, we did get financial growth, yes we did get cheap products (while the quality also plummeted, but that's called being racist, so big corporations can sell you flimsy hardware for "cheap" while simultaneously making billions, so you don't question it at all), but the so-called first world also helped finance hostile governments, who would use their money to influence other non-hostile, or on-the-fence countries, to do their bidding. And I wasn't the only kid back then who was worried about this. So please tell me, if a GOD-DAMNED CHILD CAN SAY IT'S A BAD IDEA, WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU GO THROUGH WITH IT?! I'm so absolutely done with the first world countries' starry-eyed naivete, because this crap is the closest to world-wide annihilation we've ever been (aside from the Cuban missile crisis from my understanding), and it's all because rich people wanted to get richer and "help the poor impoverished people of authoritarian governments". Win-win right? Nope, key word authoritarian. Sucks to be all the politicians that bought into this scam, and still seem to do so. Of course authoritarian governments are going to authoritarian government. Occam's razor, use it.

[@advancetotabletop5328]

Naivete is right, as symbolized when Merkel said she was afraid of dogs and you-know-who brought his big dog to their meeting.

[@xXxMarqxXx]

Lol I was born in 96, and I was saying the same things when I was younger.

[@fietereim8190]

If you have the choice between trying to convert some dictatorships through economic means and generating wealth all over the world along the way and containing said dictatorships, abandoning the people to their fate, you would chose alternative 2? I don't think so. Maybe it wasn't a complete success, but it sure as hell wasn't a complete failure either. Billions of people are better off now, than ever before.

[@chromesucks5299]

the Keyword is 'capitalism' Capital interests are more important than if a country is 'authoritarian' or not, The entire middle is like that, yet the entire world buys oil from there.

[@thelastroman7791]

Best comment I’ve read on this feed.

[@tellyboy17]

Now all Europe has to do is to boost defense spending to 5% of GDP to back up these dreams of strategic autonomy.

[@hyperbeast134]

we can do that tho

[@saundyuk]

@@hyperbeast134 Except you aren't. You've been saying you'll front up to your NATO 2% spending commitment for years and you still can't even do that. Wanna know one of the many EU nations that hasn't even made it to 2%? France.

[@flavio7180]

Complete nonsense. If, for some reason, Europe were to become some sort of federation and have 1 single army for all of Europe, their economy would be so big that they wouldn't need to spend 5% on their military. Hell, even 2% alone would be a lot of money. Who is going to invade the EU anyway? Russia? The US and China from the other side of the planet?

[@JorgeM270]

@@hyperbeast134 That's a tripling of military spending for most European countries. France can barely hold together its pension system, and they are below 2% as of now.

[@delphy2478]

actually, a big part of their 'strategic autonomy' idea is that they'd stop having defense spending standards to fail to meet, so they could afford to not spend anything on defense and not be harassed for it

[@indefatigable8193]

Macron is like: I’ll sell you France for £2

[@ohmy878]

He throw in a free blow at the same time.😂

[@wkwojti]

Europe's strategic autonomy is a utopia because Europe is too divided. The example of Ukraine perfectly shows that if it wasn't for the support of the USA, Ukraine wouldn't exist for a long time. People did not learn during the Second World War and they are not able to draw conclusions from the conflict in Ukraine. Europe needs the USA like air, without which it is impossible to live

[@kamelkadri2843]

the quality of life Europe enjoys will not last in a world lead by China, corruption inequality will spread like fire, the days of ol no more

[@DaweSMF]

Well, as far as i know EU was designed for trade, ease of travel between member states and cooperation between states inside the union. Not as all encompassing pact limiting the soverignity of its members and regulating everything inside. The EU we have today is beast nobody asked (or voted) for. Ofc Europe is divided, its made out of states with centuries of complicated history, traditions and culture. Europe strategic autonomy isnt utopia because Europe is too divided. Its utopia because Europe is continent, not country. EUs strategic autonomy is nonsense in case of military, we have NATO for this. Many people inside the EU dont want EU to dictate completely everything, the EU parlament for example is dump of unsucsessful national politicians. All they make is nonsense laws and regulations. Where i live most people are for cuting EUs excessive bureaucracy, its reach in local laws and politics and of course cut the EU subsidyes that only distort local markets. Not for extending its reach.

[@illupute8408]

So the United States is the invisible master of the backyard of Europe，lol

[@errormatrix4159]

Maybe all of Europe is a utopia, not so much, Western Europe. Russia did what it did to Ukraine,because of European passiveness on military level,and bajulation to Russian oil and gas, yet Europe was never as united as it is today, to counter Russia, the war in Ukraine had the adverse effect of what Putin expected, Europe will unite further still, and adquire a great(possible super) power status(including military), far overpassing that of Russia. How many great countries arised due to common impending menaces, I can count several, India (Britain) Brazil (Portugal) even the USA (Britain) Germany (France) France (England & HRE,Spain) England(France) China (huns and mongols).

[@wkwojti]

@@errormatrix4159 The example of Ukraine and Georgia has now reminded the whole world that neutrality does not pay off because smaller and weaker countries will always be invaded and robbed by stronger neighbors, territories taken and peoples enslaved. When Iraq invaded Kuwait and tried to enslave its people, it was very easily prevented by Operation Desert Storm where Saddam's troops were massacred. In the case of big thieves like Russia or China, which have nuclear weapons, a projection of power is needed so that the aggressor never decides to attack. This is why Finland and Sweden gave up their neutrality, and now more and more often people talk about giving up neutrality in Ireland, Switzerland and Japan. Being neutral only pays off if you have nuclear weapons. A perfect example is India and Pakistan where only nuclear weapons prevent war. Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for guarantees of inviolability of borders and independence (i.e. the ability to decide about its future). As you can see, for the aggressor state, the agreement signed in 1994 in Budapest is worth as much as toilet paper and it was an ordinary fraud. The only guarantee of security for smaller countries is giving them nuclear weapons or joining NATO and surrounding them with a common defense umbrella

[@ardstota]

I forget the exact quote but I remember an Indian politician saying something along the lines of “Europe needs to stop thinking that it’s problems are the world’s problems, and that the world’s problems are not Europe’s problems.” China is a fascistic authoritarian big brother state. Not the side I’d want to be buddy buddy with.

[@thulsadoom544]

Well said Xi will eat Macron and Europe up and spit them out

[@ricardoxavier827]

So, you want all EU members, and all christian majority nations, to recognise Kashmir as part of Pakistan?

[@lutramage6252]

This would be a more powerful contribution to this debate if it were not for India's own shameful and utterly self-interested response to Russia's brutal invasion of Ukraine. You really can't criticise another continent for being self-centred if you are going to base your entire foreign policy on self-centred principals.

[@enriquedp9356]

@@ricardoxavier827 yeah this is why everybody hates the West.

[@IsomerSoma]

You do see the irony right?

[@Hession0Drasha]

I agree that europe needs to produce most of its own millitary hardware independent of the usa. And greentech independent of the usa. But i don't think europe should bow down, to authoritarian countries just for the sake of commercial interests. Resisting china in taiwan isn't a bad thing, just because the americans are doing it. Europe should also do it, just out of principle.

[@gve-tp1kd]

It’s really odd that Macron chose this issue to demonstrate his vision of an independent Europe. It’s like he can’t confront the US directly so he pushes back indirectly by talking with Xi.

[@scotthenderson292]

Macron is a fool. He wants Europe to lead on issues affecting Europe all while being weak and making a fool of himself with Putin and Xi. You can't have it both ways. You either lead from the front or shut up. Of course he can't shut up because he is a French president trying to rebuild a French dominated world all while avoiding the responsibility of actually leading

[@scotthenderson292]

@Apsoy Pike we do need to defend Ukraine though

[@2dradon2]

​@Apsoy Pike I assume you are from the US? But more European autonomy is definitely good for Europeans and should aim to be a stronger friendly competitor, the same way the US would want to be autonomous and strong. Although Europe should help defend Taiwan with the US in the event of invasion simply as its the right thing to do to defend democracy and prevent aggressive autocratic expansion

[@Mei-wk5mt]

you want Europeans soldiers to die for Taiwan lmao?

[@tonysegadelli9421]

Macron had a huge opportunity to show how the EU can be independent when the Ukrainian War started. Instead he tried to find a peace process that would suit Russia.

[@Droidman1231]

France, saying they don't want to fight a war far away from home, even though they themselves were part of two wars that dragged far away countries in, is hilarious to me.

[@cmolodiets]

things have changed since the colonial times. No world war anymore. Many african and south american countries refused to vote sanctions against russia, let alone declare war. Can you expect europe to declare war to china? They're not even able to deal with the Russian threat

[@zorte1669]

Also french: "Why die for Danzig?" they literally liberated by the US and the allies. In 1966, Charles de Gaulle, leader of the French resistance during World War II and then‑president of France, announced that his country was pulling out of the military wing of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). De Gaulle’s motives were no secret. Worried that France was seen as a second‑rate power, he wanted to free France from “American hegemony” and establish a new identity for his country. In addition to leaving NATO, de Gaulle announced that all American troops on French soil must be evacuated. He wanted no trace of America’s military presence in France, even if those soldiers served as part of a NATO force. This, of course, is the same de Gaulle and the same France that had been liberated during the war by a similar force of American soldiers, many thousands of whom died in the fighting. Which is why when Johnson’s secretary of state, Dean Rusk, briefed the president on the plan he would present to de Gaulle-a plan that spelled out how we would move NATO headquarters from Paris to Brussels and remove all American soldiers from France-Johnson had only one comment. “Ask him about the cemeteries, Dean,” Johnson said to Rusk.

[@Some_Cool_Dude]

While they are also intervening militarily all over Africa to protect their psuedo colonies then acting like the Americans are uniquely bad

[@Shyke-w3j]

@@zorte1669 Another lesser known fact about this interaction was that after the war nations were being given space at the negotiating table based on their contributions to war. Both the UK and Soviet Union did not want to grant France the status of a victorious member of the allies, but rather as a defeated nation, given the capitulation and collaboration of the French with the Nazi's. It was only due to the intervention of the US, who wanted the French as an ally against communism, that France was even treated as a member of the allies and not a defeated nation. Should France have been treated as a defeated nation it would mean a much smaller global presence. For example they wouldn't be part of the UN security council. De Gaul ordering out American troops was seen as a huge backstab after that favor. France has always seen itself as the most powerful/important member of the EU and It's been apparent to me for a while that a great motivator for Macron to pull away from a US order is that he is personally jealous of the sway that the US has in European politics. He is just failing to understand that the reason for US sway is that they actually have a history of supporting their allies, and those allies are reciprocating in kind.

[@cocolasticot9027]

Being independent doesn't mean refusing to engage in any conflict. Just means you get to choose.

[@reganferguson4823]

If we had taken Macrons view in 1941,his national language today would be German. If he really wants to have autonomy, he can deal with the Russian tanks in Paris all by himself and see how that goes.

[@denisphelan8987]

What an idiotic comment. Fitst of all by 1941 WW2 was already 2years old and vici had already handed France over to the Nazis. Also the fact that you think one action by one person would or could decided the out come of the war really does show you don't understand what you're talking about. 😂

[@thefpvlife7785]

Spit on.

[@Tugahz]

Yeh because letting your enemies grow stronger while you sip on wine and bread worked out so well for france in ww2. You can either weaken or force your enemies to keep their current power by playing the politics game, or start a war. As an european i just really see the usa as a part of us. And be thankful for the intel corps; cia and european ones. They stabilize instead of creating wars. At times starting a small war prevents a bigger one. Look ar whats done in the middle east... Its not pretty and not fair, but well....

[@ibcyt]

Dont worry Karma is catching up fast to those Western Democracies for committing mass murder and war crimes world wide hiding behind worthless slogans "FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY". When the West burns the WORLD will finally celebrate.

[@specracer28]

When I first heard this I couldn't help but think that France was still butthurt everyone was choosing f-35 over the Rafale and how Australia chose the American option for their nuclear subs over the French option. I can't help but think that if the countries in the Pacific bought French military hardware instead of American he would be singing a different tone.

[@clearz3600]

I defiantly believe there is an element of truth to this.

[@Christmas12]

maybe- but I hope we bin this new AUKUS subs plan with all the rest of the scuttled subs plans, the American/UK one is the worst so far by a long way

[@CedarSmoke14]

Nah, but it would've helped. China is just stroking his ego to be taken seriously, especially since Russia can't seem to lol. Tbh everyone can see that a new cold war is upon us and it just looks like Macron is wussing out and refusing to see the bigger picture.

[@JewTube001]

We actually choose the french option first, but a new PM tore up the agreement and made a new one with the US/UK. So to be fair I can see why the french are 'butthurt' about it.

[@faiq026]

Indonesia is buying french arms just after Australia's back off deal(fighter jets, subs, and others for Indonesia), not enough as financial substitute but enough to hold french's influence in the region. Foreign policy wise, Indonesia and French is pretty similar as both countries strife for autonomy in their respective region

[@FANGXMAXIMUS]

Yeah America didn't really feel like bailing out France in WWII when they put up their hands in surrender after just 6 weeks. But we did, and this is how they repay us lol.

[@MrBah-tw3gt]

The US first pay back, it was the french who helped you gain independent. France is different from other countries like the UK, they don't want to be a vassel state of any other country and this is why they refused to join in the illegal invasion of Iraq.

[@FANGXMAXIMUS]

@Mr. Bah France only helped the U.S. to hurt their rival the British. It was never about "helping" us, they simply wanted their British weaker and forcing them out of the 13 colonies helped to accomplish that goal.

[@lordcirrhosisofliver]

@@FANGXMAXIMUS by that same logic, the USA didn't help france. The USA was more then willing to sit both world wars out until it was dragged in both times. the USA didn't liberate france out of the kindness of its heart any more then france helped the american rebels in the revolution out of the kindness of its heart.

[@JB-kn2zh]

Americans really think they're the rightful owners of the world, because they remember about two paragraphs of history from school about liberating France.

[@hardtackbeans9790]

I would definitely like to hear the actions of Macron explained. This should be good. Not being in lock-step with the US is perfectly understandable. Except the timing couldn't be worse. I see Macron as approaching these dictators with hat in hand & saying what they want to hear. It would be much more beneficial to keep the wolves from Taiwan's door to NOT say some of things he did say. Standing by idly in a situation very similar to the one in Ukraine is just a weak 'as long as it isn't in my back yard' response.

[@dieter5220]

Yeah, it as if he is weirdly attracted to dictators/autocrats.

[@cmolodiets]

He's not attracted by them. He acknowledges they'll have to be negociated with

[@araara4746]

So basically you are saying that you are not pro peace but pro ambiguity in prolonging the conflict. I am wondering, is the dictatorship that you accuse China of being more dangerous, or is the pro-conflict mindset like yours more dangerous.

[@aidanquiett668]

@@cmolodiets You dont negotiate by immediately supporting them no questions asked

[@cmolodiets]

@@aidanquiett668 which he didn't

[@tlk889]

I hate that Macron managed to give more breathing space to the figures like Trump 😑 European Autonomy is all well and good, but for gods sake, why did he have to be so explicit on the relations level? This was so unnecessary. Not to mention, Taiwan is far from "crisis that's not ours", or does Macron have a microchip fab hidden behind Versailles?

[@vcrkm5222]

Well the Netherlands is potentially the future microchip hotspot and well by extension the EU's. So maybe this is part of the bigger game plan in stirring up a shitstorm. Love him or hate him, Macron is very calculated and intelligent, so I'd suspect he has another motive

[@idunusegoogleplus]

You hate it but the fact is politicians like macron are clueless and you need politicians like trump to ensure security. I bet you voted for Biden and Obama second term. Guess what two presidencies did putin choose to invade Ukraine? 🤦🤦. People like you...

[@lolazal1]

Taiwan is part of China. Its non of your business.

[@lagrangewei]

China account for 20% of chip production. China is no less important than Taiwan. consider this, why is there a chip shortage for cars? when Taiwan still make the same number of chip? because it actually the mainland that is supplying the chip not Taiwan, and the decline was due to their covid lockdown. this myth that chip come from Taiwan need to end. Taiwan make the most profitable chip but when you need cheap chip, you don't go to the most expensive supplier...

[@spartanx9293]

​@@lagrangewei because supply lines are screwed up it doesn't matter what rate of production they're at if you can't actually get them to the consumer

[@Jamaha5]

It’s insulting that Macron is speaking of strategic autonomy while the US has financially and strategically bankrolled this war on their border. Let’s back off from our spending and watch Europe crumble. What can Europe do that America, Anglo Allie’s, India, and emerging markets can’t? Since the end of WW2 Europe remains less than 20% of world gdp even after the us bank rolled the largest post war recovery in history. American interests are European interests because without the US Europe is perpetually in crisis.

[@chaz2187]

States wanting avoid a great power conflict is the same sentiment that many states, namely Britain, had before the start of the Second World War. That sentiment left them very badly off guard and unprepared for the inevitable conflict. Not to say that war with China is inevitable but the thought is concerning. Particularly when you consider much of European forces are not ready for war, let alone a war halfway across the world.

[@kamelkadri2843]

What's happening today is too similar to the start of WW2, China=Nazi Russia=Russia and Taiwan is Poland, problem everyone is siding with Nazi this time around and US isn't at its best shape to do it alone. Truth there will be no WW3 because the US will lose quickly and Europe will regret licking the boots of China afterwards when they have no right in a world led by a communist dictatorship

[@zurielsss]

US didn't want Europe to support them in battle - there isn't enough time for European fleet to arrive anyway. They however to wanted Europe to sanction China when they invade Taiwan - just as how US has help sanction Russia when they invaded Ukraine And that coward Macron won't even commit to it

[@Skyoats]

pretty inaccurate history. Britain was extremely well prepared for the second world war, and maintained naval and aerial dominance over the Germans for essentially the entire conflict. France on the other hand...............

[@skytron22]

@@Skyoats didn’t do Britain much good in a land based war though huh? Especially at the outbreak of ww2…

[@wta1518]

@@Skyoats At least France lasted more than 2 hours, unlike Denmark.

[@diepie5144]

As an American I love the sentiment that Macron is pushing - but he perhaps chose the second worst issue to make this statement in context of.

[@scotthenderson292]

Macron is a joke. A fool. He says Europe (with France at its helm) should lead on issues in Europe but then a war breaks out in Europe and France doesn't lead on it. And now he suggests kowtowing to Chinese aggression. What a fool. Modern day Chamberlain

[@DalerMehndiDeekSheik]

Strategic autonomy is fine. Giving the middle finger to Taiwan, and sucking off Xi is retarded. That's the second dictator he's tried to appease...not sure what you love about that.

[@jacob4920]

Mentioning Taiwan was an "idiot" move. And Europe, it seems, agrees with this assessment. While no one (other than Poland) is talking him down, it's notable that nobody else is outright supporting his position, either. It just feels to me like Macron is willingly "simping" with Xi Jinping. That's not a good look, even when you remove the United States from the equation.

[@strasbourgeois1]

We need a replacement. New president, or a new regime entirely! I say a constitutional monarchy. À bas la Republique!

[@deeptoot1453]

​@@jacob4920 macrons an idiot. Thus is what feminism will get you. We have Macron jn France and Grandpa Joe in US. What do you expect? DeSantis will hopefully talk some sense in Macron.

[@IuriFiedoruk]

The problem is that EU talks a lot about security, but does too little. They do not want to spend 2% of GDP in security, relying on US, so how can they do it without US id they do not WANT to spend on it? Just think how the Ukraine war would be at this point with only europeans giving them weapons? Russia would be rolling tanks over Paris already!

[@MiguelSilva-wi6tl]

Relax we have power to counter russia.

[@accountforcommenting]

India's External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar stated: ‘Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems’.

[@rudreshjha7166]

yupp they cry only when something bad happens in Europe , but doesn't care about rest of world.

[@ex_muslimapostate3676]

He did said right .. usa and West aren't trust worthy ..Always keep your interests as priority ..

[@D__Ujjwal]

This seems quite true considering macron's statement regarding Taiwan but refused to agree when Chinese diplomat stated that pre Soviet countries like Ukraine are not a real country. These are double standards He want to make EU a superpower and relevant to global affairs but choses be blindfold on global issues

[@thatswhatshesaidbro]

Macron needs to be a bigger supporter of Ukraine if he really cares about eu autonomy. Also why say this in China? Going to another country to announce autonomy doesn’t make him look independent it makes him look like he’s a beep. Glad the other eu countries don’t share his view. Germany, Czech, and Poland all came out against it without 1 country backing him and even his own party backtracking and French opposition against it. Beyond eu America and eu are nato allies and should have each others back no matter what

[@prplt]

French opposition is almost all pro Putin and pro CCP so I doubt they are against it 🙄

[@sambones1092]

Wtf? We give a shit ton lf military aid to Ukraine, Macron even stopped talking to Putin after Bucha

[@thatswhatshesaidbro]

@@sambones1092 ya macron doesn’t care about europe he just cares about distracting his people from domestic problems. If he cared about EU autonomy he wouldn’t be so reliant on America for the Ukraine war

[@Pfromm007]

You can feel Macron's ego on the other side of the earth.

[@Habib_Osman]

And not the USA's? It's a thousand times the strength.

[@PeterMuskrat6968]

Yup. HE wants to be emperor of Europe.

[@strasbourgeois1]

We need a replacement. New president, or a new regime entirely! I say a constitutional monarchy. À bas la Republique!

[@Habib_Osman]

@@strasbourgeois1 You'd like the French president to also be a lackey of the USA? I think France should stay exactly as nonconformist as it is. The USA has plenty little slaves already in Europe.

[@gamera5160]

Why is it when Europe talks about being "more independent from the US", it never means taking more responsibility for their own defense. It always means doing nothing useful and enabling a despot for their own financial gain that the US will inevitably have to deal with anyway?

[@kkpenney444]

This.

[@PeterMuskrat6968]

West Europe has always had their heads up their ass to maximize the sniffing of their own farts. It seems they forgot that in order for the world to stay clean, you actually have to do the dirty work.

[@Maxdanger13]

We’re supposed to be allies and macron really just forgets that

[@grfrjiglstan]

I get where Mac is coming from, I really do, but could we have this conversation later, when a hostile foreign power isn’t looking for any sign of global weakness to invade their neighbor?

[@saundyuk]

That's not how appeasement works.

[@XiaoPangZi]

Why do you get where Macron is coming from? I’m a swede and i don’t trust france/germany one second. I do not want strategic autonomy. EU does jot care about democracy/human rights, only about money/power, Macron just proved that again, and germany proved it when they did not want to support Ukraine. USA protects the free world time and time again. We Europeans created Nazism, Fascism, Communism, USA saves us every time. So why why why should we have strategic autonomy and why should we not just continue to support Pax Americana and be loyal to USA?

[@sittingduck02]

why would China invade Taiwan over a sudden? They have been peace for the last 70 years and Taiwanese economy depends on China nowadays. Millions of Taiwanese live on the mainland nowadays, who washed your brain?

[@AnotherAmerican91]

I just think it's foolish to do when America is bankrolling the war in Ukraine as we speak. Like should we not be involved in Europe either?

[@XiaoPangZi]

@@AnotherAmerican91 look at the politics of France and Germany. Before the war Macron did everything to be best friends with Putin, Germany becomes dependent on Russian gas/oil (even after Russia attacked Ukraine 2014). Then during the actual invasion of Ukraine Germany just sends helmets. Documents leak saying Germany and France wants Ukraine to loose quickly. It’s clear they don’t care about democracy or freedom, they don’t care about Ukraine.

[@andrewemerson1613]

a more autonomous Europe is a strictly good thing. the problem is that it comes of as pretty tone deaf to argue it while seemingly ignoring that there is like an 80% natural overlap between the strategic concerns of the US and the EU and that the parts that don't line up are almost entirely just the concerns of private businesses rather than actual security concerns

[@XiaoPangZi]

Why is it strictly a good thing? I’m a swede and i don’t want this. We Europeans created Nazism, communism, fascism, USA saves us every time. How many wars and dictators have we European had? Ever time USA goes to war they win and force the enemy to adopt democracy and human rights, we should trust a country that does this. Pax Americana is the best thing that happened to the world, they deserve our gratitude and loyalty. Germany not helping Ukraine and what Macron says about Taiwan proves we Europeans only care about money/power NOT human rights or democracy, i don’t trust the EU one second.

[@Flight_of_Icarus]

Yeah, the US has no interest in competing with Europe militarily. Dividing the US and Europe would weaken them both, and encourage Russia and China to have more intimate cooperation.

[@kartoffelbrei8090]

I feel like macron only said this to appease right wing. Autonomy is a very vague term and how it is beeing used it can only mean that Europe should isolate, which is exactly what Xi would want right?

[@andrewemerson1613]

@@kartoffelbrei8090 kinda, what it should mean is to develop Europe's ability to act without being near totally dependent on the US. how it is often framed is that Europe should develop it's capacity to act separate from the US... so that they would be more able to not act at all? in matter that are almost always blatantly in their own interests? yeah, can't say I understand the tone

[@andyreznick]

Well put.

[@larrywave]

Europe could become a superpower but its not going to happen with french or german leadership

[@gups4963]

They don't have enough young people to do that

[@el3ndir97]

I agree I dont trust their current leaders at all

[@jerry3790]

@@gups4963 immigration

[@SimplyVanis]

EU's Objective is not to become a military supper power. It's might be useful and its a nice thing to have if you want to stop other powers to act like crazy psychopaths. But EU's interests are not one of imperialism. France is basically the last Imperialistic country with bunch of colonies, so its understandable why Macron does what he does. But rest of EU doesn't want to push other nations around... As long as they don't want to start wars like Russia or China...

[@dezafinado]

There's always Switzerland. They can neutralize anyone.

[@davidmaguire3521]

Is Macron ever going to learn? It was only a year ago that he went to Russia to ensure peace and came home looking like a numpty.

[@cultugarvealgarve7380]

France and Europe, never learn any normality, even not from WWI WWII, still have not a normal army, but big blabla talks.

[@klimero271]

Macron doesn't care about France, he always wants to be a bigger player and always end up looking like a fool

[@BigmanDogs]

So he can't have any foreign policy takes on EU level? You probably wouldn't be saying this if he supported status quo foreign policy

[@qefewfwdcwdc]

dmbest muppet I have ever seen. lol macron is the biggest proponent of a strategic independent europe. And france is the only country that will survive the departure of american troops and support. they will control the european continent and project power in africa like they always did

[@-sunrise-parabellum-]

To add to this: let's remember Macron was strongly in favour of appeasing and "normalizing relations" with Russia mere months before the invasion. We can see how that worked out.

[@shenyyr1289]

@@-sunrise-parabellum- Also kept trying to argue for a diplomatic solution. Macron was willing and even arguably eager to partially throw ukraine to the wolves to boost France’s soft power and prestige as a negotiator.

[@angelcabeza6464]

@@shenyyr1289 yet he wont negotiate with his onw workers do you think Americans are that dumb?

[@alexrowe7063]

When you see Macaroni going in to "deseculate" a situation just know was isn't far off. We saw that peace talk with Putin went.

[@thulsadoom544]

Ha ha so true he's a complete disaster

[@catmonarchist8920]

Any more peace attempts from Macron and it'll be WWIIi

[@kingace6186]

TLDR has been hitting us with video after video, and I very much appreciate it.

[@chrispaw1]

Absolutely, they don’t hang about, we get opinion straight away.

[@tooeasyy5287]

This is why i like TLDR, also his voice is nice to listen to lol

[@Seanw-ij7yx]

@@chrispaw1 wow that statement right there is why you clowns are pathetic. 'we get opinion straight away' meaning you cant come up with your own opinion you need the thinking done for you. LOL pathetic.

[@hellodude5277]

As an American, I support European autonomy. That being said, if the Europeans are potentially not going to help the US in a China-Taiwan conflict, then why exactly are we being expected to help Ukraine so much? I support helping Ukraine, but I feel it is hypocritical of our European allies to not help us when we contribute so much to European security.

[@louiscypher4186]

Now is a great time to start understanding the difference between friendship and alliances. Do not make the mistake of thinking Europeans are friends. There is no special relationship with the continentals. Alliances only exist when it's convenient. The US and Europe are aligned on Ukraine because Russia is the largest country in the world, it's interests stretch across the Atlantic and the Pacific as well as the Arctic. That makes it both Europe and the US's problem. Whilst the Uki-Russo war is not a direct threat to the US today, keeping Russia weak when it's hostile to the US is in US interests. By getting involved in Ukraine today it potentially heads off a direct war with Russia in the future. China on the other hand, is confined to Asia and the pacific, thus there's no real interest for the Europeans to get involved in a pacific war except to keep the US alliance intact, but a war with China would be very inconvenient.

[@Kentalot]

Also what do we need help with? Bullying China? We're doing that plenty well without any help. If going to war with China, then no thanks. I don't want a nuclear war

[@XiaoPangZi]

As a Swede/EU citizen I think you are gravely wrong. Remember we europeans created nazism, communism, fascism and USA saved us every time. Germany did not want to defend Ukraine, Macron does not want to defend Taiwan, we Europeans only care about money/power. USA goes to war unwillingly, most times attacked, they win and they force the enemy to adopt democracy and human rights. Everything USA does proves we should trust USA and be loyal, USA has deserved to be the guardian of the free world. I myself don’t trust EU one second, but i trust USA and is extremely grateful, i would honestly not want to go to war to protect the EU, but i would gladly go to war protecting the USA. God bless America.

[@XiaoPangZi]

@@louiscypher4186 I disagree with you, as a swede I think i consume almost 99% american media. I talk english with my wife and. Show me a famous street of NY and i would know it’s NY, show me a famous street of my own capital and I might actually have a hard time knowing which city it is. I recognise we europeans created nazism, fascism, communism and that USA saved us every damn time, I would probably speak german and have a picture of Hitler on my wall if not for USA, and i spit on Europeans who has forgotten this and always throws shit at USA. Pax Americana is the best thing that ever happened to the world, I don’t trust those frog-speaker french one second, and i don’t trust the Germans. I would not want to go to war to defend EU, but I would go to war any day to defend USA. For me USA is a friend, protector, the only reason we live in prosperity and freedom. You have my undying gratitude for always trying to do what is right, how you help Ukraine is again the proof of this, however unfair it is that you have to do this when we stupid Europeans should do it. Thank you. God bless America. You have more friends in Europe than you think.

[@louiscypher4186]

@@XiaoPangZi Sadly you are not in control of your nation. Bureaucrats and politicians are in control and they most certainly aren't "friends" just look at the multitude of exemptions for individual countries whenever the EU announces a new round of sanctions. The look at the bilateral funding for Ukraine as a percentage of GDP. Lavtia 1 Estonia 2 Lithuania 3 Norway 4 Poland 5 Netherlands 6 Czech Republic 7 UK 8 Bulgaria 9 USA 10 Only 7 of the top 10 doners are EU member states and all of the EU members are former USSR nations which hate Russia. Japan even outranks some EU members in terms of commitment. If the big hitters in the EU wont even step up for Ukraine. How can they be trusted to help Taiwan?

[@ugvadugvaw]

One of the biggest myths in political discussions, is that the USA just tell European countries what to do, and they follow. Ironically it is not created by the Yanks who often are accused of loudly telling everyone how big, strong and great they are (they are loud, yes). It comes from elsewhere. Europe and the EU has independent countries with their own policies. Just look at how the war in Ukraine is dealt with. Some openly oppose sanctions to Russia. Others send fighter jets to Ukraine. Unfortunatelly Macron, who otherwise is a sympatetic man with sound ideas, fuels that myth by saying that EU should not blindly follow the US, implying it did in the past? It hasn't. Quite a few (not all) European countries are closely alligned with the US on foreign policy, depending a little on who's in the WH. No one really understand their domestic politics though. When European countries have fought in conflicts alongside the US, it has been out of their own interest. Not because they were ordered to by "daddy US".

[@Justin_Ebright]

The only thing we want in the US is equal commitment. We are not the dog of war you only call on only when your butts are in the fire. If there comes a time, such as corrupt nations like Russia, China, NK, and Iran joining forces to reignite the very wars Europe pleaded with us to help stop. If we didn't step in and help (and I mean help) with H*tler what would Europe be today? Suddenly it's a problem because it's Asian democracy at risk? If we were there for you in your time of need then how can you sit by as bystanders in someone else's? Why should we in the US continue to allow you to rely on us if we cannot rely on you when it matters most? Ukraine is something America would support with or without the EU and Sen Rubio's remarks were off base even though he meant to share the same sentiment I'm saying now. As for the EU being a vassal or a colony of the US, that must be Europe's own inferiority complex because we've never felt that way in the States. We've sought to honor our commitment but that commitment is a two way street. We're not going to risk our lives for someone who'd abandon us when we need it most.

[@baronvonjo1929]

Finally someone said it. I really never understood why this has taken off. If they wanted American military bases off their soil I think they would have stopped any support and demanded they leave. Several European nations have also had roles in many military operations with the US around the world. But again they pretend they don't do anything

[@Habib_Osman]

?? huh. Europe does exactly as USA wants. The whole premise of the comment is flat wrong. It is not true at all that nobody understands their internal politics. Nobody understands all european countries internal politics, with that I would agree. But for example the Netherlands simply does as the USA says. Regularly handicapping itself at the request of the USA (last week for example, USA got the Netherlands biggest chip-producer ASML to stop exporting certain products to China. Dutch politicians are opposed, ASML itself is opposed, but mysteriously- the USA got their way anyway. Now, it has come out that the USA is planning to export those chips to China itself! It would be quite hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.)

[@mariokartpro7406]

staying quiet made you almost lose to the nazi's

[@devanman7920]

Honestly I think given the way the world is going the west needs to come together more not apart. The reality is someone has to be number 1 and the world with China as number one is not a good thing

[@walkwithdeath]

As a European, it outrages me that our leaders are forgetting and courting up to the government that has put us under this mess

[@outerspace7391]

Why?? Why are you all so interventionist for goodness' sake?? I'm European too, I never liked or will feel any sympathy for people like Macron and Ursula but I'm glad we're at least not gonna involve ourselves in a possible war in east asia. Y'all like taking about idealistic bullshit like "sustainability of democracy" and "containment of authoritarianism" and "muh rights" but I highly doubt you'd like to see Yourself at the front lines holding a gun waiting for the enemy to appear and start slaughtering.

[@Phunker1]

What? The Russian government?

[@boarfaceswinejaw4516]

The reason Europe follows America around is because the US so far has a stronger track record of fending off genocidal autocracies intent on overtaking their neighbours than France or Germany does at this point. The US came to the aid of ukraine and by proxy Europe At Large. the least we can do is provide the same benefit and support for Taiwan. likewise, Taiwan is of our concern. outside of being another lone democracy in asia, its also a major microchip manufacturer, so i have no idea where the "not our problem" mentality comes from. Maybe when France and germany stops being led by neoliberal centrist stagnant pond-people who want to get chummy with dictators, maybe then EU can get some "strategic autonomy". I swear, China is to centrists what Russia is to the far right.

[@ibcyt]

Taiwan is the only democracy in Asia now? Who wrote your script?

[@boarfaceswinejaw4516]

@@ibcyt "outside of being ANOTHER lone democracy in asia, " i dont need to update my script, you need to improve your reading comprehension.

[@LeviBulger]

Yeah, just wait until he gets his wish and has to start obeying everything China asks of the EU. At least the US acts in good faith and isn't going to turn its back on the EU ever. China couldn't care less about the EU and allowing them to take control of Taiwan, along with everything that would mean for trades and technology going forward, would mean horrible things for the EU especially. China would no doubt make things incredibly difficult for Europeans in the international market and would only work to collapse the EU further. Remember that Xi has openly stated how much the world needs to become more like them in how they run their government. Hope Europe is ready for the social ratings system and severe censorship. Make a bad comment about China? That's jail time. And when Russia gets the ok from China to push westward into the EU, don't go asking the US to help you. You turned your backs on them, despite them giving you back your democracy and sovereignity from the Nazis.

[@Habib_Osman]

As a european, I'm not scared of China. I am much more scared of the USA. I despise their black/white worldview and find Macron's view to be very appealing. Let's keep the world connected instead of painting everybody into a corner like the americans and UK love to do so much. Thinking in black/white terms gets you nowhere. Political situation in the USA is the perfect example imo!

[@monkeeseemonkeedoo3745]

Thankfully, there are others besides the EU to align with.

[@kamelkadri2843]

there's few of them every day, the only true powerful nations in Europe are UK France & Germany, with France & Germany already China's B!tches, that leave the UK, even Mexico & NZ sided with China

[@sorrestsummer]

Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand, India (possibly), Poland, UK, Canada, Mexico, Philippines, Ireland, hell, maybe even Vietnam.

[@Black-Ice242]

@@sorrestsummer Yep, though i'm not sure if Mexico or Ireland would involve themselves tbh.

[@paulinotou]

The US needs to be a better ally. We can't take for granted that Japan and South Korea are our allies. There is nothing beyond petty history that is really preventing them from jumping to Chinas side, the Phillipines under Duterte shouldve shown that.

[@monkeeseemonkeedoo3745]

@@paulinotou The USA isn't a perfect ally, it could be better certainly. But these comments from macron, about staying out of conflicts which are not his own, coming as the ccp simulates an invasion of Taiwan, are just too much. He's basically giving the ccp a better hand. From my perspective, this is just more anti Americanism coming from France, which has a long history in that country. This same anti-Americanism probably got much worse after the Suez crisis, which France, UK and Israel started in the 1950s. So while the USA is not the perfect ally, I think this latest comment from macron is in line with France's ambitions to regain power and influence. He gets out of China's way in Taiwan, very publicly, then Airbus gets a nice deal, and so on.

[@wizzzer1337]

Macron is foolish to assume China sees Europe, let alone France as a peer

[@aoknights4425]

Cry more🤣🤣🤣

[@krum1598]

its foolish to assume USA is friend of EU

[@gabor6259]

@@krum1598 You think China is better?

[@hueheu7542]

@@krum1598 well USA at least doesnt commit mass genocide on millions of people now

[@kartoffelbrei8090]

@@krum1598 Ok how do we apply for friendship in China? just past the uygur laborcamps? ok thanks

[@Sagoner]

I love how everyone hate Macron even foreigners 😂

[@Habib_Osman]

? eh. Most europeans agree with Macron. The only nations that don't are fully indoctrinated by the USA, meaning: UK and Poland. The producers of this video are visibly/politically from the UK, hence their opinions are as such too. Germany and Netherlands are deeply in USA's pocket too, but not as much as UK and Poland.

[@strasbourgeois1]

We need a replacement. New president, or a new regime entirely! I say a constitutional monarchy. À bas la Republique!

[@saundyuk]

@@strasbourgeois1 Is it time for a Sixth Republic yet?

[@strasbourgeois1]

@@saundyuk Yes 🙌

[@alm9322]

Is there any person in Europe right now, that actually likes Macron's politics? I doubt. Even people like Orban seem to be more sane than him.

[@itsa11good23]

Europe should be more independent of course. As an American I have a few perspectives on these comments tho. Republicans in the United States are annoyed that European countries were not spending the recommended amount of money on the military “3%”… look at how many countries were caught with their pants down when Russia invaded Ukraine. So Europe being prepared for things like that is good and spending the appropriate amount of military is good. The US being involved in Ukraine is part of the alliance of Europe and yes does better serve an American agenda no way around it. Both Europe and American benefit from a stable Europe… which is why we are involved in the Ireland situation as well. But to say Europe wants to be independent and immediately run to the next totalitarian oppressive regime makes little sense to me. The reason Europe is in the situation it is is because they became overreliant to Russia against America’s warnings (another other European countries) and now it feels like they are going to do the exact same with China. Throwing Taiwan under the bus like this does put salt in my mouth when viewing what the US is doing for in Europe currently with Ukraine. Just makes Americans feel used-gives ammo to our far right politicians which is no good to anyone. The issue is definitely how this is being phrased by the French government. People can talk about the divide going on the US but rest assured France is not doing any better. With conservative and far right parties and leaders gaining in popularity across Europe tensions in most counties are counties high and divided. It does not surprise me, though, to hear a country openly talk about not helping the United States in a pressing US issue, while they benefit from us, helping them in the greater scheme 🤷‍♂️ If my memory serves me right France is the reason the US even got involved in Vietnam-the basic ultimatum from France was if you don’t get involved, we will support Russia. Fun game of Geo politics from a country that was trying to recolonize in poorly spent all that money on a war that force Americas hand to get involved and ultimately lose. But again, I do support Europe becoming more independent, though I do view Europe rather independent as it is , Europe doesn’t blindly follow the United States into most situations saying they blindly followed the United States in this Russia situation is a heartache, considering this Russia situation is a European situation and at the fault of Europe 🤷‍♂️ the Middle East situation is both an American and European issue. Europe basically Drew, the borders improperly and his lead to an unstable regions. America is just trying to exploit that region, but so is Europe 🤷‍♂️ but neither of us want the backlash of citizens running from a war torn area that we created… weird. Russia has a identity of being America enemy or whatever and ppl in the US don’t even think about Russia that much, China is of greater thought. Shut out if someone actually reads this monstrosity of a thought. I just find it annoying when countries shit talks to the United States. Well, actively benefiting from what the United States does..

[@kkpenney444]

Shout out back. I'm pissed off as well.

[@PeterMuskrat6968]

*Bing Bing bing* WE HAVE A WINNER!! But yeah, you are entirely right. France just wants to have its empire back… THEY want to lead Europe…. But they aren’t willing to do the dirty work to keep Europe safe.

[@Worldaffairslover]

Poland knows what’s up, USA is the boss, Germany understands it, the Uk understands, why not france?

[@fixpontt]

that's mostly a 20th. century thinking, the 21st will be different we are inevitably heading towards a multipolar world and the EU has to redefine itself in this new era and Macron is basically the first who realises it

[@Worldaffairslover]

@@fixpontt nope, America is the boss. Ukraine wouldn’t exist without us, ask Poland pm

[@fixpontt]

@@Worldaffairslover the world has been rapidly changing, Macron argues that Europe in the future should make our own weapons in the 21st century and not buy them (or some of them) from the US or other countries. And he is right. Europe has been sleeping since the end of WW2 and time to wake up. The real argument here is thethere is no such thing militarily as EU, there are ~25 individual countries and militaries and that's a bad distribution of pwoer and a bad distribution of resources. Macron basically says individual countries should give up their independent view and agency of foreign/military politics and do everything together.

[@HN-hf7pc]

All the military aid being sent by US to Ukraine - Imagine the US turned around and said this isn’t our war, this is Europe’s war.

[@sussyGHOST]

Top 10 anime plot twists

[@denisphelan8987]

That's what the orange clown trump said & continues to say about Ukraine. It's why 6 years ago Macron said Europe needs its own army so we're not dependent on the USA.

[@nick90000]

I want the EU to have strategic autonomy and declare support for Taiwanese autonomy, the EU should have official full diplomatic ties with Taiwan

[@WanWanOfficialX]

Only one country in europe recognized ROC as a legitimate government of china. Vatican, a country with population less than 1000.....we should just consider vatican a village

[@shiddyboy]

That’s great but unrealistic

[@Dominus_Potatus]

Nice dream... at that point either China is no more or WW3 situation

[@stephenjenkins7971]

​@kleijnee Officially. Many countries recognize it as autonomous unofficially anyway. US just flat out says "we recognize that China believes that Taiwan is a part of One China" rather than itself acknowledging that.

[@WanWanOfficialX]

@kleijnee no country recognize taiwan independence, those 13 countries just recognize ROC as a legitimate government of china....taiwan is never a country

[@Chris-qc6mx]

Wow, imagine getting caught up in crises that "aren't yours" on a completely different continent because you have friendships and alliance that need support, oh and maybe also because its the right thing to do... That must be a real pain for European politicians.

[@Misiok89]

Macrone could know that he is loosing trust among French. If Macrone will show himself as pro Russian and pro Chinese then he will create space for opposite narration and if guided wisely could be significant. Everything connected to him could be seen in France as contaminated.

[@Mankorra_Gomorrah]

Interesting that “a strong Europe” always seems to include a Europe led out of Paris without much say from smaller countries like Czechia or the Netherlands.

[@me0101001000]

The only way Europe can stand up to both and hold its own is to federalise, and we all know that won't happen within our lifetimes

[@helioslegigantosaure6939]

Maybe if we have a war

[@floppa9415]

yeah, the U.S. know that they gotta keep us down in order to keep us their Puppets

[@Buorgenhaeren]

@Zaydan Alfariz balkans and eastern europe shouldn't be part of EU anyways... they should be in NATO but they are just a drain on developed EU countries, when they get developed and not corrupt enough they can join

[@rizkyadiyanto7922]

that was the reason why UK quit.

[@shenyyr1289]

@@rizkyadiyanto7922 A decision many of them are now regretting funnily enough

[@KingDroza.]

The problem is china doesn’t just want Taiwan they likely want all the countries on the South China Sea.

[@PeterMuskrat6968]

Yup. Which is why we need to create SEATO.

[@7bits0]

no, thats crazy, its not 1700s.

[@silencemeviolateme6076]

​@@7bits0 why is china claiming Indian territory then? Just in the last few weeks.

[@blokin5039]

@@silencemeviolateme6076 Read up on your history and you'll know, good luck.

[@7bits0]

@@silencemeviolateme6076 you can ask india too, and both china india set example of border conflict by stone&club

[@jerry3790]

Europe and the US have extremely deep ties that ensure they will always have the same strategic interests

[@vsstdtbs3705]

What a load of nonsense. If the future is anything like the past, look at how many wars Europe has had.

[@Eelis0]

"same strategic interests" Then why did the US blow up Germany's pipeline?

[@bungaumihai3589]

We can still have that,but differ in approach

[@horouathos8199]

Yes, the US domination over Europe. Precisely the "ties" we want to break free from.

[@JamieElli]

As an American, I worry that Macron is fueling those in our country more focused on our own strategic interest than democracy. "If Europe won't be a reliable ally, why not try to work with Russia?" They say, and things like this make it seem truer.

[@shaun7142]

To answer the title, not really. Macron played himself. From what I've seen, Macron is just another world leader who is caught up in trying to recapture the "good old days". In this case, when France was not "merely" a major global power within multiple dominate global alliances, but an axis on which the world turns. The problem of course is that France is trying to play the middle game in a situation where the middle is a destabilizing status quo.

[@JustMe-em7hl]

He is just saying this just to save his collapsing approval rating.

[@NoobGamer-sc9lt]

if EU keep following the US it'll be the end of EU, fact

[@duffmann3]

While I support our NATO allies becoming stronger on their own. I fear that Europe will ignore Tawain and let China steamroll East Asia and the South China Sea. I fear France especially would leave us Americans to hang out to dry when we needed them most, however, we would most definitely come to their defense, seeing how we are currently doing more to help Ukraine twice more then all of Europe combined.

[@sorrestsummer]

@江南 aight chinese bot

[@sorrestsummer]

@江南 You spouted your state approved message, hurry back to oversee your Uyghur genocide camps and block any information about the Tiananmen Square incident. Oh, don’t forget to make sure that your pathetic leader never sees Winnie the Pooh, we all know how upset he gets when he sees it.

[@huaiwei]

@江南 lol looks like it does not even need another Chinese to detect a Chinese bot nowadays, just repeating typical CCP propaganda spread on Chinese social media.

[@ex0duzz]

Taiwan is part of china and an unfinished civil war. China has no intentions of fighting any other wars or invading any other countries in Asia. China cannot "steam roll" anyone in Asia except Taiwan, since that is part of China and no one will really support USA on that since USA is in the wrong. They are the loser in Chinese civil war who still exists only due to USA Provocation and meddling. USA basically picked the losing side, and are in now no position to admit reality, which is they chose the losing side and are now against the 1.4 billion Chinese who support the PRC under CPC. Also, china is the largest and oldest and most influential country in east Asia/Asia for the last 5000 years, and is naturally looking to be the dominant regional power as it always has been except for like the last 100-200 years when Qing collapsed and China was partially colonised, flooded with opium, ganged up on by all 8 great powers combined, Japan and WW2 happened, and also Chinese civil war happened which continues til this day and which we are still talking about now with Taiwan. It seems to me based on what you said that you likely think that china should not be the dominant power in east Asia. So who should be? USA right? Isn't that funny how a country that has no land there and is located 12,000km away thinks it should be the sole dominant power and hegemon of east Asia/Asia. Thats like china saying it should be the hegemon of north America, or hegemon of Europe and USA and UK and eu all need to just accept the Chinese bases surrounding your country that are 12,000km away from China. And yet you support USA and West it seems to contain and suppress china I take it. it seems like the old days mentality of yellow peril, evil commies, us vs them mentality never went away. USA are the biggest warmongers in all of modern history since usas founding 250 years ago they've been at war for all of them except like 16 years. What a record. Anyway, when chuna has Taiwan again, then USA and China will have equilibrium since China now has open access to deep oceans, just like USA. USA cannot contain china instead first island chain and monitor everything anymore which means less chance USA gets overly cocky and starts world ending war vs china.

[@sorrestsummer]

@Krauses Trust me, us Americans hate spending our money to protect your asses too. Especially when we could be spending it to protect actually useful allies.

[@danielvillalba5375]

I do like the idea of staying out of conflicts that are not our problem...maybe next time Europe is faced down by a maniac with nuclear weapons in its Eastern front, America shouldn't get involved and let them resolve it themselves.

[@DarioF-qq4ow]

As a younger generation I will never understand why is it hard for humanity to be at peace. Is it our ego? Are we that insecure? Just plain vicious ? Everyone is in a mess.

[@chromesucks5299]

the greed of the few and powerful forcing us all

[@Habib_Osman]

There's nothing human about having interests. Ant colonies have their interests too. Cute dogs too. Or plants.. all living things have interests and those interests are most often opposed. Most games organisms play are zero-sum. When you win, it means that I lose. Look for example at grass. Seems harmless right? Not at all. Grass has roots so dense other plants struggle to live amongst grass. It drowns out other organisms in order for itself to live. That is how nature functions. Sometimes randomly our interests align, a brief respite to the lifelong war we all wage.

[@zurielsss]

It's simple - if Ukraine succeeded in better economic development by aligning with EU and flourish as a democracy - it an existential threat to Putin's lies about how dictatorship in Russia is better The same for Taiwan - the existence of a economically successful Taiwan which didn't choose communism and had democracy and capitalism is an existential threat to Xi's CCP regime

[@iddomargalit-friedman3897]

Because violence is an extremely effective tool to achieving stuff. It is only when stuff arise that make it unprofitable that it doesn't happen - namely deterrence.

[@Agent-lr4ez]

The will to fight is human nature it’s in our core. When push come to shove we will fight.

[@blair2798]

Marcon's autonomous strategy - - after the first shot is fired - we will surrender.

[@peanutmoose9591]

I don't care what he meant he needs to walk it back and issue an apology

[@PeterMuskrat6968]

Getting a Frenchman to not be a arrogant cocksucker is an impossible task I’m afraid.

[@t.miller8456]

I do think Europe should be a moderating counter-balance between the US and China as a force for peace. If they blindly follow us Americans, I think the chance of open conflict in the Indo-Pacific is higher.

[@josephmassaro]

By Macron's logic, the EU should be footing the bill for Ukraine. The EU exists, in part, because the US pays for it's military security. So many EU countries have very progressive social programs because they don't have to pay a large military budget. If the EU wants to go it's own way, that's fine, but lets not kid ourselves, their military budgets will balloon and that often comes from domestic program cuts.

[@cmolodiets]

The increase in european military budgets has started already, rightfully so. The U.S. is trying to cope with both russian and China's imperialism. Too many enemies, too powerful. At some point, they'll have to drop some of their allies like they failed afghanistan. Europe should be prepared for a shortage of american military material

[@XRealEstate777]

The war in Ukraine was instigated by the USA. why should the EU foot the bill? Infact US should be paying economic damages to the EU for the damage that its proxy war in Ukraine has done to EU's economy.

[@7bits0]

Do you like free security guards at the door? And this security guards likes to annoy the neighbors of Eastern Europe ，you must pay something for this "free guards"

[@somezsaltz6835]

@@7bits0 that doesn’t even make sense

[@minseopleem7458]

@@7bits0 Poland and other countries bordering Russia do fore sure, wumao.

[@yudistiraliem135]

What people don’t realize, the fact that EU is reliant to USA was conscious choices, the biggest one is because it’s WAY cheaper for EU to do so. For example for some countries it will increase their defense spending would be just as big as NHS, and they still WON’T have projection capabilities abroad, that would require another tens of trillions of Euro and decades to make.

[@valdencorr2861]

Europeans are fuking clueless when it comes to this fact. Look at the French rioting in the streets for weeks over a 2 year increase in retirement age, wait until they find out they have to pay up the ass to have their "strategic autonomy".

[@NightSentinel51]

If Macron wants to go at it alone, let him. Just don't cry when "little green men" or any other color show up in your backyard.

[@tiskbubbles4688]

Taiwan's semiconductor industry is really important for the EU economy. The Taiwan-PRC conflict is quite relevant globally.

[@fietereim8190]

Someone should remind Macron, that you don't have to air all of your thoughts.

[@petertaylor4647]

i still can't get over how trump says chynA lol

[@LeviBulger]

"Djy-na" 🤣

[@timtaylor7146]

He actually said The Kung Flu😂😂😂😂 I miss him

[@chewsberry9982]

@@timtaylor7146 Well he was a funny guy but I'd draw the line there

[@timtaylor7146]

@@chewsberry9982 no we're going to have him back he wanted to get us out of NATO and we need to, we don't trust the Europeans anymore and they don't do anything for us anyway but costs lots of money

[@mikahamari6420]

According to Catastrophe theory, when a dog faces threat, it will attack or run away when the threat level reaches certain point. I interpret it that a very brave dog stands still, without provoking the situation, but not stepping back even an inch. If the threat level goes down, then it can leave the situation. Europe, be strong, not weak.

[@kkpenney444]

Except his comments absolutely provoked the situation and fulfilled Xi's goal of pulling Europe away from the US- all while the US is by far contributing more to your own European war. With friends like these...

[@bl5608]

France: china can you clean up our mess in Ukraine? US: we support Taiwan France: who's Taiwan?