Mad Catz Tried Making the Ultimate FPS Controller: Panther XL from 1997

[@Ciakuz]

I love how it says "Duke Forever" on the supported games list.

[@LGR]

Such simpler times.

[@stevethepocket]

I bet 3D Realms actually was planning to support it at the time, even.

[@TheSonicsean]

Well someone needs to take the Steam version of Duke Forever and see if it works.

[@KandyMan971]

@@TheSonicseanOr even better, the leaked 2001 version

[@guguy00]

@@TheSonicseanDo not mention the 2011 duke forever

[@seoulpurpose]

I need a time machine to tell my childhood self "Don't worry about not owning the cool things you see in magazine ads. Someday you'll get to enjoy them vicariously through your favourite KZbinr"

[@LGR]

Ha!

[@BlackMageJawa]

"Also, most of them are actually really silly"

[@Daniel__Nobre]

@@BlackMageJawahaha indeed, but at the same time such crazy good times given the amount of crazy new stuff that was always showing up in this area (specially games, they were so different from each other).

[@MrWolfSnack]

"Don't worry about not owning the cool things you see in magazine ads. Someday you'll get to enjoy them by buying them online for next to nothing because it sucked and everyone forgot about it to the dustbin of history"

[@heroinmom153]

​@@MrWolfSnack "Or they become highly sought after and their rarity drives up the price ridiculously, especially once they end up in a video by someone like LGR."

[@HebaruSan]

Ahh, the late 90s fall-to-death animation where the character plummets hundreds of feet, comes to a stop on his or her feet, and slowly collapses as if they've passed out. Classic!

[@georgeyreynolds]

You can pretty much do that in cyberpunk 2077 lol

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

With games like Duke Nukem 3D, Blood, and Half-Life, the player would plain rupture into a spray of giblets when hitting the ground, much like they'd have been shot with a rocket launcher or blown up with a bundle of dynamite.

[@Eric-pc4yi]

And takes the time to turn off his lightsaber just before collapsing.😂

[@meatmobile]

​@@0neDoomedSpaceMarineNo doubt so you couldnt see an enemy body just sitting there on an otherwise invisible killplane

[@DOSStorm]

I wish wacky joystick content like this was more prevalent on KZbin retro tech channels. We had so many interesting control devices in the mid 90s and early 2000s.

[@clockwerk35]

Aside from console controllers at the time yeah. I remember a lot of unique controller designs from Mad Katz for the PS1 alone

[@lupo5095]

Become that KZbinr and join the likes of LGR in content creation!

[@StopChangingUsernamesYouTube]

Really did. It was like companies were assuming either flight sims would take over the world. Though I guess at that point console controllers hadn't been terribly analog and hadn't shown everyone what a way smaller stick could do when paired with a bunch of buttons that aren't mounted atop it.

[@rautamiekka]

Only, or very much mostly, in USA, not Europe, much less northern Europe like Finland. Not that money was exactly plentiful, though, and shit was so expensive it was (read: shoulda been) illegal.

[@natecw4164]

Such an oddly specific desire... and one I completely agree with 😂

[@Zlotac]

I have 2 in my basement, waiting for a usb conversion for quite some time now. Played for YEARS UT99 on one. I still swear this is and always will be the best controler i have ever used in my life. Also keep in mind when this was released, keyboards had 3 key limit and were, as today, digital, so no minor movement. The trackball was the biggest selling point because you could keep the sensitivity reallyyy low and just yolo it to a side to make a 180, but still have precise movement when aiming. Thanks for the video, this reminded me i have to bump the guy doing conversions to have one on USB and enjoy the good ol days again.

[@MagnifiedGiant]

I agree.

[@d.r.1402]

What about the rubber degradation?

[@Zlotac]

@@d.r.1402 honestly i havent checked on them in a while, but was still fine. If need be, i'll just 3d print new ones or improvise otherwise.

[@imperialus1]

Yep... Mine died but I used it for the Mechwarrior games up to and including Mechwarrior Online just a couple years ago via a gameport to USB adapter. It was just about the perfect controller for that. Joystick controlled the legs, trackball controlled torso twisting and arm movement. It was fantastic.

[@Roxor128]

The limit on the number of simultaneous key presses is, and always has been, down to the design of the particular keyboard model. The cheapest ways of designing a keyboard also tend to be ones that put strict limits on simultaneous key-presses. Even the more costly approaches can still be restrictive. Just because a keyboard has been built with individual switches doesn't mean it'll be good at registering lots of simultaneous key-presses. The IBM Model F that came with the original PC could handle any number of simultaneous key-presses just due to how its key-sensing mechanism works. The later Model M, which everybody loves, uses a different and simpler mechanism that is less-capable, and which in a worst-case scenario, can only register two simultaneous presses. In general, capacitive mechanisms (such as the Model F and Topre) can handle any number of presses, as can Hall-effect mechanisms. Contact-based mechanisms, such as membranes and discrete switches are usually limited. Discrete-switch designs _can_ support any number of presses if the designers add diodes in series with the switches (or use switches that have built-in diodes), but that obviously makes it more expensive. And that's just due to handling the mechanism. Many USB keyboards have a 6-key limit due to how they implement the protocol and only use the most basic and compatible version of it. Ones with a better implementation will switch to a more-capable variation once they finish dealing with the BIOS. There was never a time period when there was a specific key limit. There's always been a variety of options on that front. There still is, and I don't see it going away any time soon. Mostly due to companies being cheap.

[@Checker201lol]

Oh man, LGRs video are my feel-good-space...these jazz tunes, soothing voice and the well researched, super interesting contents on a Saturday morning with a fresh cup of coffe just gives me a positive goosebumps. LGR, you've come a long way since you started and with those steps of improvement that you have with every single video you built this awesome Saturday morning space, that noone and nothing can penetrate. I'd sincerely thank you for your highly appreciated work!

[@LGR]

I’m glad it’s appreciated, thank you!

[@Daniel__Nobre]

Yeah, it feels like this Saturday morning relaxed conversation about tech with a cool friend in your cozy home office space before booting some retro games to play a bit before lunch. Your videos are just so great and relaxing indeed! Thank you!

[@cabreca]

The Panther trackball with a joystick was awesome. As a lefty, it was a great FPS gaming setup. It was just load a game and start playing. No need to rebind for left hand controls.

[@Deadguy2322forreal]

I had the Dreamcast version, and it was amazing for Quake 3.

[@juan666restauracionmexical5]

pa dreamcast pa dreamcast 64 se nota que nadie le gusto el control de sega porque le falta 2 joysticks en ves de uno que la compania cometio ese error del mal diseño del control para juegos shooter de primera persona y en tercera en la mira

[@BrandonDKirkwood]

Same here!

[@JohnSmith-xq1pz]

The blue and white looks amazing

[@DCGX]

I still have the Dreamcast version, and you're right. Once you get used to the layout and buttons, it's pretty good for FPSs. At least for those that don't have a keyboard and mouse for the Dreamcast.

[@daniel_lucio]

Same here but I prefer DC mouse & keyboard

[@effievision]

Had one and played so many hours of Descent / Descent 2 with it! Perfect pairing, was a joy~

[@JadeEyedWolf]

Teenaged me in 1997 would have envied you! All we did in the computer lab was play D2 CTF for hours lol

[@Ninjasdrinkcoke]

Heh, I see what you did there🎉

[@MrJozza65]

@@benjamingarrett1175 Overload for PC is a 6DOF shooter similar to Descent released 2018; it's by the creators of Descent and looks like it could be good; might be worth a look

[@JohnSmith-xq1pz]

Man I can imagine how sick playing Descent would be with that thing

[@JohnSmith-xq1pz]

@@JadeEyedWolf Lol nice👍

[@TehSmokeyMan]

Well, this is a great example of how a good product can seem clunky when we change our controls usage in-game😄 You struggling with it reminds me of about every time I play an old game with non-standard control schemes (switching between newer and older RTS games for example)

[@KalebKronic]

Friend of mine back in 2001 or so praised the hell out of the PantherXL that he had before we met. When he got another, he paid way to much for one off ebay. Then broke it within a week heh. My fave old school PC controller was the 3Dfx Hammerheadfx. Loved that thing back in the day.

[@BlobVanDam]

Oh cool, it's my two least favourite PC inputs stuck together! As a lefty, I hate joysticks being in the right hand as it is, and having the left/right hand controls flipped from modern controls by default just makes that even worse. But I love seeing all of these crazy attempts at controllers.

[@WoodsPrecisionArms]

I love LGR’s channel because it’s like Duke Nukem is narrating them. It’s like Duke Nukem is teaching me about awesome nastalgia-wear & Goodwill Thrifts. “IT’S TIME TO SHOW ODD WARE MAIL AND CHEW BUBBLE GUM, & I’M ALL OUT OF BUBBLE GUM!”

[@JaBooBaLoo]

Why do i keep forgetting how much i love this channel?

[@rjcgy713]

"Blue ball" and "clean ball day "....this type of content is why I continue to love this channel.

[@garloch]

John Romero pulled a Sheppard: "this is John Romero, and this is my favorite joystick in the citadel"

[@kytaem]

Man the 90s rocked. Now, we just get mice and keyboards but they cost $200 each

[@hwykng82]

racing wheels got crazy expensive too

[@renakunisaki]

I'm just glad we don't have to deal with a hundred different GamePort protocols anymore. USB is nice.

[@VekhGaming]

@@renakunisakiToo bad that anything more advanced that a basic and/or nobody-brand keyboard and/or mouse requires its own driver/software suite again now.

[@drasher25]

I had one of these and loved it. I found it and extremely natural control scheme. For me the one sadness about the emergence of USB was the obsolescence of this miraculous device

[@pandacongolais]

Definitely odd ! Makes me remember a specific LAN Party. We saw a friend setting up his PC and connecting a Wingman something. What ? He intends to play Duke with that ? Ah ah ah, we will destroy him ! We all got destroyed at a level we never encountered before and after ! Can't imagine the training behind ...

[@tsufordman]

The saving grace to this would be whether or not you can fully swap those directional functions in the settings.

[@3vi1J]

You had me at Mad Catz. "Mad Catz: It won't be good... but it will look cool. Official controller of 'you tried it once and now make your little brother use it in 2-player' ". :P

[@GrassSaint33]

They did actually make really nice arcade sticks for fighting games in the 2010s.. but I guess that was too niche to keep the company afloat.

[@MagnifiedGiant]

I still have a few of these. It was actually awesome for Quake back in the day. It was supposed to come out for Xbox but never saw the light of day.

[@CommodoreFan64]

You're not alone as even though I'm left handed I've always used my trackballs and mice with my right hand. So this would be really odd for me as well.

[@rigell2764]

If there's one thing I'm definitely not nostalgic for, it's getting peripherals to play nicely with computers. What a nightmare. We have come a long way.

[@adamsfusion]

It surprises me that Mad Catz went from concept to production, and at no point did anybody think to flip the trackball to the right side.

[@presidentkiller]

It should've been detachable so you could move it to the left or right depending on your preferences.

[@MishraArtificer]

They likely assumed that, most people being right-handed, that most gamers would use the joystick in their right hand. I agree with the other guy, though: making it hot-swappable would have been better.

[@IrenMasot]

Flight stick prioritizes the right hand side, while FPS demands the exact opposite.

[@Kildaer]

It would've involved a left handed flightstick so they would need to design and make unique parts for the entire left side. While 70 bucks is a big ask making something more expensive and which needed to sell more units is insane.

[@bastien-]

Controllers always have the D-pad on the left and mice are mostly used on the right. Somehow they decided to put the mouse control on the left and the D-pad equivalent control on the right, making it wrong for both controller users AND mouse users at the same time.

[@ryanmcfadin09]

Oddware is the best ware. Fantastic video, Clint. Thanks my dude for all you do.

[@metacob]

Imagine someone deciding "high sensitivity and inverted is the only way" and then you just have to live with that

[@SundayBoy72]

Always like the 80s and 90s box. So colourful and exciting.😊

[@KAPTKipper]

Using IPA to treat the sticky rubber helps. Takes a few applications. Not a 100% option but it does help on some of the devices I've used it on

[@pixelcrunch300]

>sees Mad Catz >claims to be the "Ultimate FPS Controller" Hell yeah, this is gonna be a treat.

[@rustkitty]

Two niche but standard controllers merged into an odd combination. This reminds me of a time when I built a 'Mech controller for my brother by combining a Thrustmaster joystick for main controls, a mechanic numpad for additional keys and a USB hub to keep the wiring inside in a single painted sheet metal enclosure. You can make all kinds of weird controller combos if you have a specific use-case in mind. Not sure why you'd make a new controller for FPS games in general though - nothing beats k&m in that arena.

[@robmanning2589]

I had these PantherXL’s including the one for the Sega Dreamcast. I swore by them, and did custom mods to them by replacing the trackball innards with a USB mouse innards. After the drivers and gameport stopped being supported, the community replaced the PantherXL with a Kensington USB trackball and a CH Products Fighterstick USB. The reason for the joystick instead of a keyboard is because the joystick gives you easy access to many buttons while still being able to move your character. The joystick also gives you access to analog movement while a keyboard only gives you digital movement. In my view the keyboard and mouse ruined gaming by taking analog movement away from gaming. Even now with gamepad controllers having analog joysticks, very few games support analog movement, all because of the popularity of the keyboard for PC users. As a note of interest, the now famous Joe Rogan used a PantherXL to win some FPS tournaments back in the day.

[@josko50]

I totally had this. If I left it plugged in and left my computer on, it would light my dorm room up bright red at night, with the LED's blasting through that red orb. I distinctly remember playing Star Wars: Rogue Squadron with it! Great video.

[@AzureLazuline]

the hands being reversed reminds me of the Dreamcast, which only had one analog stick, on the left side. Precise aiming was way more important than precise movement, so shooter games would always use the left stick for aiming, and ABXY for movement! I eventually did get used to it but it takes a while.

[@brothercannon]

Finally! I still have both Panther XL and Panther DC controllers. The PXL I bought came with the standard release of Half-Life. I think you can still get the PC version modded to optical, USB, and have the wiring harness replaced. PC games that support analog movement will take advantage of the joystick. I played through Mechwarrior 3 on one of these. I found it a more intuitive way of moving one direction and aiming/looking another. I remember getting the software setup being a pain and I had to muck around with DLLs to get it to work. I played hundreds of hours in UT with this controller.

[@Selanium]

The Mad Catz mini controllers I still use for my GameCube. All of them were actually really well made and fit my hands waaaaaaay better than the normal ones.

[@ghostoflazlo]

Looks like your regular Elite Dangerous controller

[@Ametisti]

I need to play that more... It does vaguely look like a HOTAS though, just.. with a trackball.

[@puschelhornchen9484]

​​@@AmetistiHands on Trackball and Stick 😂

[@puschelhornchen9484]

Reading that back I'm glad it is only one (Track)ball.

[@cowgoesmoo3850]

​@puschelhornchen9484 dang, you remember that one type of mouse that had the massive trackball in the middle, with the mouse buttons on the sides? Lol My dad loved that thing for some reason lol

[@ghostoflazlo]

@@cowgoesmoo3850 lol wasn't that for kids? 😅 it was so clunky to navigate 😅

[@TheOnlyBootlegger]

The delivery on "there's our ball" at 7:51 is so beyond excellent. Beautiful stuff

[@Myriadys]

Honestly, my first thought when saw it was "why isn't the trackball on the right" which it seems like would make sense since you also mentioned that most games nowadays do looking on the right and movement on the left. Then again, this was 1998, so we hadn't quite figured out how 3D games and 3D movement should be handled yet anyway.

[@LowSpecLinuxLaptop]

I had one and with the joystick in right hand, trackball in left hand actually feels more natural than you would think

[@brianargo4595]

​@@LowSpecLinuxLaptopYeah, I can't imagine trying to use a full joystick with my left. I'm sure you could get used to it, but not ideal.

[@LonelySpaceDetective]

Personally, my perspective on the matter is that the ship had already sailed; Quake I came out around a year and five months before this, and that was the game where WASD+mouse became a standard through its competitive community. You know, a control scheme where (for rightys) movement is on the left hand and aiming on the right. Not to mention that tons of arcade games at this point had put the joystick in your left hand, and while most of them weren't like FPSes that's still a precedent for movement being the domain of the left hand. You're not _wrong,_ in that it did take a while for everyone to see the light, but the way I see it is that we were eventually going to go down this route, and those joystick/gamepad manufacturers and game developers who didn't see it were making mistakes even if they didn't realize it at the time.

[@Myriadys]

@@LonelySpaceDetective I mean, the d-pad on controllers was and still is on the left as well. I can see some logic with it, albeit it's still kinda funky looking at it 25 years later

[@LonelySpaceDetective]

@@Myriadys The d-pad did come to mind as I was writing that, but to be fair Nintendo were following what arcade machines did at the time.

[@LaynaStambaugh]

I think this is my first time seeing an LGR video the day it was released!! So excited :D

[@user-gj1lb6xp3t]

MadCatz: the official controller of younger siblings everywhere

[@Colorcrayons]

I owned one until a few years ago. With regular maintenance and some modding to get it working for current gen stuff, it is the best controller ever made by human hands. Fight me. Also, they did do a good fair amount of updates to the software for the controller for various games. I played the hell out of Aliens Vs. Predator online, and wrecked so many faces as the alien, because of this controller, and even used it to play American McGees Alice. I am not sure when the last update for it was, but I recall it getting updates until at least 2003.

[@TheSynrgy1987]

Always thought these kind of things were a weird design might be cool if they had an ambi design where the trackball part can be moved to the left or right side of the stick.

[@catfish552]

But then you'd have a left-hand joystick and that's also very odd.

[@TheSynrgy1987]

@@catfish552 sticks can be configureable to be left or right handed, like tbe T16000M from thrustmaster for example. Or be made ambidexturous. Twinstick setups are not uncommon.

[@HoroJoga]

I'm glad to hear that after all these years Clint still cleans his ball bay every so often.

[@quattroconcept4]

I recently got myself a Sidewinder FF2 for use in Combat Flight Simulator and Sturmovik. In Win 11 is just plug and play.

[@Patmanx1]

I love that box it comes in. so 90s. Somehow it reminds me of the ads for the sega saturn console ads or the sega (i think) ad with the boys head, but the top of his head is a hand grappling either a sega nomad, a gamegear, or a sega controller.

[@kutulukutu]

Would probably make a good MAME stick, even if playing Afterburner would tip the thing over. Epic Centipede action, though.

[@umbrellacorp.]

It's been so long since I've seen LGR. I've been so busy with work. It feels good relaxing and watching his videos. 😌👍💯

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

I actually have pretty fond memories of Mad Catz products. Had an og Xbox Mad Catz controller which I preferred over the Duke controller I had. Had a fightpad by them, my first good arcade/fight stick was one of theirs and my first gaming PC back in 2013, I had a STRIKE 7 keyboard and RAT 9 mouse.

[@Faselbob]

I still have the RAT 7 and the Cyborg V7 stored in a box of random old PC stuff. The look of their stuff really was something but I do remember quite liking it back in the day.

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

@@Faselbob Oh yeah, the Cyborg v7, I have my one of those still too. But mine is Saitek branded.

[@AcidFink666]

I had one of these! Once I got used to the set up it worked really well.

[@cancrdancr]

Oh man, I would love to see you build the Romero-Machine at 5:15

[@shorty1k]

God I loved those Romero ads. Actually reason that I wanted both the sticks he did ads for.

[@MrJakeTucker]

I've always found a gamepad's left stick is better than a keyb's WASD for getting around. But a gamepad's right stick is a poor substitute for a mouse.

[@renakunisaki]

It is nice to have analog control on the left hand instead of just a few buttons.

[@mrjoshmtz97]

This is such a very great demonstration technology video that I ever watch today!

[@humanpr0ject1]

I loved that late 90's era of thinking joysticks would be a great way to play FPS games. How wrong we were

[@Immopimmo]

Yeah, thank god for flight sims. Without those we wouldn't have any sticks left.

[@peterclarke7240]

The thing is, they were sort of right... Console controllers essentially contain two very small analogue joysticks, and if you look at how the buttons are laid out by the right-hand stick, it's really not that dissimilar to the panther model. Definitely ahead of its time, but a sign of things to come, at least on console.

[@FateBringsMe2U]

Maybe not the most optimal way but I can imagine how fun mecha games would be with a dual flight stick setup

[@peterclarke7240]

@@FateBringsMe2U Steel Battalion would be the bunny for you, then!

[@Ericss2009]

@@peterclarke7240 Console controllers are a sub-optimal way of playing FPS compared to mouse and keyboard, even with analog sticks. That's why most people prefer FPS on PC, and mouse and keyboard mods even exist for a few console FPS like Metroid Prime.

[@ObscureNForeign]

At 11:18 on the subtitles you wrote "our real" instead of "Aureal" and at 26:01 you have Duke saying "That's wrong" (hahaha) instead of "Let's rock."

[@tigheklory]

Have you ever seen the N64 one that has a flight stick on the right and digital joystick on the left? I have one, it's fun a quirky too.

[@aarlavaan]

hmm... would you consider the Arthur interactive doll Oddware? it was technically a standalone toy... but it also had a custom dock to hook it up to a PC, which allowed it to interact with the Microsoft Arthur games. kinda like a precursor to skylanders, but the toy itself is robotic and moved around.

[@SockyNoob]

This is the equivalent of tying your shoes with a fork and pliers instead of using your hands.

[@dannyc.9161]

What a analogy

[@nathanixslade]

Good to see Mad Catz is still open for business, less bold.

[@Redmage913]

I can imagine a reality show being made out of MadCatz where absolutely bonkers gaming devices are placed before a panel for manufacturing. But ALL applicants somehow win.

[@rommix0]

It's like Mel Brook's The Producer where the main characters try to make a flop (Springtime for Hitler) but made a hit instead. Similar plot.

[@Greg1096]

I had one and absolutely loved it, there is a guy that updates these to work with modern hardware and i so wanna buy one, just think my wife would give me hell for spending so much on a controller, soldier of fortune and quake were the big games i used it for back then

[@Dukefazon]

Have you tried switching hands, crossing one with the other, operating the trackball with your right and the joystick with the left? I know it would be awkward and you wouldn't be able to use all the buttons correctly but worth a try.

[@lavalamp6]

I left hand mouse because in the early gaming days you used the arrow keys to move and when mouse aiming came to be, it was easier to keep using it left handed.

[@mrburns366]

Mouse on the left? WTF? I'm left-handed and even I don't like the looks of that.

[@FVC1988sp]

I'm glad you took out the Romero ad and maybe you should use your Duke voice more.

[@Ametisti]

The fact the trackball lights up sells it to me, I want one, even if I only have one, sporadically working computer it'd be vaguey useful on

[@renakunisaki]

I'm wondering if it's possible to have an illuminated trackball with an optical sensor. They're infrared, so in theory it could work? Maybe blue would be less likely to interfere?

[@sinisterthoughts2896]

Okay, the illuminated track ball is awesome.

[@shukterhousejive]

Always struck me that DOOM launched with modern FPS control support out of the box but it took over 5 years before people realized using a flight stick as a mouse wasn't the wisest move, funny how these things work

[@theParticleGod]

The reason it seems so weird to you is because you're wrong. Doom didn't launch with with modern FPS control support out of the box. Original doom used the mouse for forward and backwards movement and didn't support looking up and down, and the side arrow keys turned left and right instead of strafing. You could play Doom with only the mouse, apart from switching weapons. Modern doom remakes have adopted the control scheme of newer FPS games retrospectively. It wasn't until well after the launch of Quake that mouse look and WASD became the standard.

[@russelltennant5642]

@@theParticleGod But you can remap the controls in the original DOOM to WASD and mouse. The only odd thing is vertical mouse movement is bound to forward and back so you need something like novert to cancel that out.

[@theParticleGod]

@@russelltennant5642 Doom didn't "launch with modern FPS control out of the box", which is what you said. Now you're talking about configuration changes and third party applications to block vertical mouse movement. I never saw or even heard of anybody using WASD and mouse in Doom until years after launched, it wasn't as though that control scheme was well known and people just didn't use it. WASD literally wasn't a thing until people started winning Quake tournaments using it.

[@AmyraCarter]

I'm ambidextrous, but, I do mouse control stuffs right handedly. This here would be little more than a display piece; I don't think I could ever use it, even just the trackball alone. Mad Catz is underrated; they deserve more love.

[@AceTrainerX3]

4:28 I did not expect to hear LGR say "blue balled version" today, but here we are. Cheers!

[@TastyBusiness]

Combat Flight Simulator was my jam as a teenager, love that game.

[@lessonslearned2569]

LGR, "The trackball is inverted by default." Me, "As it should be."

[@MQsto]

Yes!

[@Drinkabeerandplayagameofficial]

Ah, the wacky days when control schemes weren’t yet standardized.

[@TylerComptonShow]

I've always wanted a solution that combines analog movement with the precision of mouse aiming but I don't think this is it 😅 In addition to everything you mentioned, the huge amount of travel a fight stick has doesn't seem ideal for non flight games.

[@Bureaucromancer]

The three things that have always come to mind for me are: -that “RTS Controller” somebody did in the 90s, but with proper analog - basically a mouse like format on a stick for the left hand with a macro pad -a left hand only nunchuk controller style thing -an actual analog stick on the left side of a keyboard Honestly, I think the first option has the most going for it, but the ability to dual market a nunchuk as a VR controller wouldn’t be bad.

[@TylerComptonShow]

@@Bureaucromancer the analog stick on a keyboard idea seems the most straightforward but I imagine it would be hard to make ergonomic

[@fonesrphunny7242]

I used trackballs for maybe 2 years, but I could never manage precision inputs.

[@renakunisaki]

An idea that's been bouncing around in my head is a joystick where, instead of a button on top for your thumb, there's a little trackball...

[@Bureaucromancer]

@@renakunisaki Yeah, I like the sound of that... I know the VelocityOne flight stick has a mini analog as one of it's hats (and is actually property ambi, so might be one of the better options for a left hand stick if you can live with the travel range)

[@2Scribble]

-Mat Catz- Well, with those freaks in the title - you know we're in for a crazy time

[@buckarooholiday]

the non standard control schemes are the last thing i miss about gaming 's wild west there was a similar joystick that i remember hacking to play backwards, sort of like the design of that gravis gamepad

[@scottieb1]

MadCatz will always be special to me because before Microsoft realized how absurdly large their original XBox controller was, Mad Catz had a well made (for Mad Catz) reasonably sized one. For quite a while it was actually player ONE controller! Then Microsoft put out the S controller and it became player two.

[@TheMailoc]

Looks like a terrible way to play FPS games.

[@robintst]

Yeah I would need the stick on the left too but instead it's because I'm left-handed. If it was like that then I could at least futz my way through using the trackball in my right hand, I'd get used to it over time.

[@retroandgaming]

Fantastic episode and really enjoyable :) One could feel your inverted and not inverted pain...

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

This thing would make such perfect sense if it was mirrored, using the stick for moving and the trackball for looking.

[@XT-8147]

I had a different weird joystick back in the day, it was advertised as a 6 degrees of freedom joystick and came with control profiles for Descent, Descent 2, etc. It put all axis movement and rotation on the right hand, and the left hand just had buttons. I never got used to it, and switched back to mouse and keyboard for everything. The joystick had a black and lime green color scheme, and the directional input was an overgrown nub that you had to twist, pull, and yank. I think the nub was digital as well, so you couldn't have any finesse on the rotation, it was either "you're rotating now!" or nothing.

[@jediguy634]

I get it with that almost 30 years of gaming muscle memory. I had to get a NSO 64 dedicated controller with all the classic N64 face buttons because my darn muscle memory couldn't wrap around the pro controller re-mappings / combo's.

[@thelaughingmanofficial]

Back in the 90's I used to think playing FPS with a Joystick was the only way to play because the stick kind-of emulated holding a gun. And at the time it made sense to me. But these days I've gotten so used to Mouse and Keyboard that going back to Joystick to play FPS feels wrong.

[@pendragnx]

heh, those John Romero ads were amazing .. Funny watching Clint trying so hard to like this but not quite able to buy in ^_^

[@CrispyToast]

Panther XL looks like something that a mad scientist would make.

[@Pest789]

I went to a couple of the big Bastard's Beat Down LAN parties out in LA somewhere around the turn of the century. There, I saw a dude absolutely *dominating* in Quake 1 deathmatch with one of these. It was shocking, to say the least.

[@sponduli]

07:52 dude I love doing that raspy stone cold voice it's hilarious

[@jjc0064]

As a Southpaw gamer made by the N64 and used to inverted controls I'd love to try that thing!

[@SuperRaijin]

Half the fun with playing with computers is the stuff you put your phalanges on!

[@lemagreengreen]

Mad Catz is a weirdly long lived brand given... their products.

[@birbzilla]

I love the Oddware series. Thanks, Clint!

[@thatzaliasguy]

I play inverted with a GameBall trackball today, and good old EDSF instead of WASD.

[@Dreamshadow1977]

I remember seeing this on the shelves at Fry's and wanted one. Never got around to buying it. The classic original Sidewinder carried me through many Mechwarrior titles well into the 2000s. Twisting for torso twist blew my mind.

[@QunMang]

I bought a Wingman Warrior back in the day. It's been languishing since support was dropped for it in Windows and then technology moved on. That one plugged into the old serial port for the spinner and the gameport for the joystick.

[@philgrommetx6493]

I had that when it was brand new! I remember playing Unreal with it on my pII 400 that had a Voodoo 3 3000 and a SB Gold Live!

[@StopChangingUsernamesYouTube]

Honestly still seems pretty reasonable in a world before Xinput. You have a trackball for general interface stuff, some nearby buttons for clicks and...well you can map the rest later, and there's a joystick for gaming. When you consider that people really didn't have the best idea of how to what even do in 3d in '97, it's not the farthest from the mark.

[@StopChangingUsernamesYouTube]

And wow, looking back there was clearly an assumption that flight sims were going to _be_ the market. So many sticks.

[@Schweigardt]

So even a slightly more modern computer would do nothing with this controller when using a game port-to-USB adapter, correct?

[@nsf001-3]

Some of the Mad Catz console controllers were pretty nice, tbh. They're a part of early 2000s nostalgia for me