Made In Abyss : The abandonment of morals for questionable entertainment

My insta : / sunnyexastris
My kofi : ko-fi.com/sunnysolaris#avatar...

[@sunnyexastris]

If that wasn't obvious already , any comments : -supporting the creator's actions -excusing p3dophilia and CP because it's "fictional" - claiming p3doph*lia is part, or has anything to do with queer identities - insulting or being blatantly rude to me or other people in the comments -rage baiting Will be deleted! Hope that helps spare you guys losing an embarrassingly amount of time making yourselves look stupid ♡ And no , i will not let people express different opinions about pedophilia lol. Cry abt it . I will keep deleting comments in support of these acts . Womp womp

[@notaspeck6104]

Hun you really need to vibe check a couple of these comments… cause yikes. Idk why people think fantasising about fictional children is better than fantasising about real children. Like usually pedo’s start somewhere and escalate? Why is this rocket science lmao. I really hope some of these people never have kids. Fuck me 😭

[@maciejhoyszko1528]

I love made in abyss story and inflicting horror on children is not problem for me cuz i dont think its some twisted torture porn. What i don t like is manga covers (not main covers but those under ) are sus as hell and unecessary. I love made in abyss for insane characters ( like riko ) and mystery of this pit. But i get you. I will never ever rewatch Human centipide ,Serbski film or Martyrs cuz those films scared me for life :c

[@sunnyexastris]

Well i did use the specific word of gore fetish instead of porn bc porn would imply it is directly sexual whereas a fetish isn't directly. But it is only speculation on my part! I am nowhere near being an expert into recognizing what is and isn't fetish content , my suspicions just come from the few scenes that i listed and the already established fact that the creator is a pedo.

[@Emperor-Quill]

I absolutely HATE when I see or hear about some really good worldbuilding, then find out that it's a Required "Buy 1 get 1 Free" and the other "1" is some total freak shit that I wouldn't touch with gloves on.

[@john80944]

Hentai is a genre of manga that can make some absolute brilliant worldbuilding, character arcs or plots, but you will never find them. And that's okay. Even me can't handle how depraved human creativity can be.

[@OmniPsych]

I still like Made in Abyss, despite its problematic scenes (Especially later in the manga). I like it mainly for its world building and adventure, and I can understand why most people wouldn't want to watch it. As for the question at the end: "Where do we draw the line". Me, personally, I draw the line when it stops being fictional, e.g "Artists" (Like Shadman) that sexualize underage actresses, people shipping real life people together (even despite being RELATED), books and movies that glorifies racism (Pseudo science, Turner Diaries) and pedophilia (Pretty Baby, Cuties). Oh, and people who refer to real children as "loli" can rot.

[@kohinattosru8587]

I agree 100% - glorification and normalization are problematic even if we talk about fiction

[@lafolleauxmostisma]

Very interesting video! It’s a pretty relevant subject to talk about nowadays even though I don’t agree with everything you said. Btw in 6:30 you probably missed some words cuz Seinen is not for young people it’s for young adults (men precisely).

[@missliv.404]

It's one of those stories where I wonder if it is that hard to just make them adults if you need s3x jokes so badly. Especially because not every story needs these things. Sometimes something being purely horror and nothing else is okay

[@kymo6343]

The story could have easily been about Riko's mother and been almost exactly the same.

[@jonaswerner8480]

I guess I had more simpathy to your point of view if it were actual children beeing used for this Like that movie that was all about little girls twerking Also, your point of enjoying gore is wrong is pretty weak once we consider that it has been used for show even in medival times Only upside is that no actual humans are now killed and instead props beeing used

[@sunnyexastris]

It's still a depiction of young children and as for the gore , your point is also weak because we evolved as a society and we generally shun death sentences, child weddings, adults and minors relationships etc . Yes , people getting injured USED TO BE something used as entertainment, but not anymore!

[@sunnyexastris]

Oh and also i don't have much of a problem with the gore again , i did specify that i know other medias with gorey scenes . My problem comes specifically from the way it is depicted and it is purely my opinion on that part

[@kymo6343]

Dude forget the gore, the mangaka CHOSE to have some weird creepy tentacle/tongue plant lick on little girl private area while she's going to the bathroom. That was a CHOICE.

[@notaspeck6104]

It’s ignorant to pretend like there aren’t a ton of people out there with perverted thoughts and tendencies, and like it or not when this sort of stuff in media is endorsed or turned a blind eye to, it validates those people’s perverted desires in their heads. So the question is, to what extent is the content of the show narratively justified? And in this case I don’t think having your main character (who looks like she’s 8) strung up naked as a ‘punishment’, is justified. It’s the principle that matters, when you let certain fantasies slide just because ‘it’s fictional’, you start to set a worrying precedent that WILL bleed into real life. Life imitates art. I mean imagine a more extreme example, is it okay to write a show that casually depicts genocide in a casual or even favourable light? The fact is that media has to power to desensitise us to bad behaviour, or even inspire or validate bad behaviour in the minds of deviant individuals.

[@kohinattosru8587]

I had discussion about erotic and gore stuff in fiction with friends - we agreed this stuff should be used as pepper for food. In moderation. Prolonged, more intense scenes are getting boring really quickly or are becoming main focus for the viewers/readers, sometimes even author. I even pushed some gore to happen between the scenes in my own stories. Seeing character heartbroken and without some limbs can be way more tragic than showing in details what happened

[@e-note]

I agree that the anime has elemants of fetishising wide-headed children, because author of it is openly lolicon. Notice: lolicon is not a fetish on real children, only anime ones. But you go out of your way to find everything pedophilic. Don't misunderstand me, I've read the manga, and the showrunners already cut off some of the children's boobs, so I do agree with that the bathing scene, the unhealthy curiosity for Reg's genitals and even the Riko hanged nude scene are pretty sus at least. But I've never heard anything about Irumyui before. And that's for a reason: Irumyui is from the primitive tribal culture for which words "Young enough to bleed - young enough to breed" might be quite literal. I mean a few centuries ago same thing could be applied to Europe. So their morals has nothing to do with modern western morals. You just say: their culture is wrong. Also the fact of Irumyui being a child is pretty vital for the plot, because of the mechanics of wish-giving eggs (I forgot their name). The more innocent you are the less twisted will be the granted wish. It got twisted because of the morals of the Abyss itself. And I and as I think many of the other viewers are watching this anime because of it's interesting unusual and twisted answers to the moral questions. So obviously Irumyui being a child adds to the shock-factor, but it is needed both from the perspective of world building as well as the plot. And both of these aspects are pretty good in this manga and anime, can't argue with that)

[@kymo6343]

Dude I can assure you I am gonna be just as creeped out by anyone that admits they have a fetish for anime children...

[@notaspeck6104]

Holy crap theres so many logical fallacies in your comment. First of all as a non European, yes any culture that encourages child marriage or ‘breeding’ is wrong… like do you wear yourself? It’s an incredibly dubious practice that has occurred all over the world, it has nothing to do with the culture or people and everything to do with the fact that we now know better. Second of all showing a character that looks 8 strung up makes is not sus, it is outright weird. The fact that you think it requires more mental gymnastics to call that paedophillic than not is strange. If you want to world build, there’s many way to show punishment that doesn’t involve that level of objectification, and if you really must have it. Why can’t the characters be older? And your point on ‘just anime characters’ is just pointedly ignorant. The fact is that media has the potential to desensitise us to bad behaviour, or the inspire, encourage or vindicate individuals who already have these thoughts. Perverted individuals will often seek this sort of stuff out, and then use it to justify their own thoughts. And then this bleed over into their real life actions. This is the exact reason why people had an issue with killing stalking, media is simply not separate from real life. The two deeply influence each other and pretending otherwise just breeds complacency. This doesn’t mean you can never show dark material in a show, it just means you need to question to artistic legitimacy and necessity of said material. Do you really think the repeated fixation on child characters in situations involving them being vulnerable, uncomfortable and naked is narratively justifiable? It’s not the fact that they’re fictional that matters, it’s the principle.

[@notaspeck6104]

@kymo6343 Legit, like why do these people think fiction paedophillia exists in a vacuum from regular good old fashioned real life paedophillia? The mental gymnastics is unreal.

[@notaspeck6104]

Also I really can’t stress how odd it is that you think child marriage being wrong is a ‘western’ moral standard. It is a scientific and objective fact, a literal FACT, that children are not physically, sexually, mentally or emotionally mature. They do not have to power or authority to choose, to say yes or no. If you believe that everyone has to right to bodily autonomy and freedom of choice then taking advantage of this vulnerability is WRONG. I don’t care what culture you’re from.

[@e-note]

@@notaspeck6104 I sincerely appreciate the thoughtfulness with which you answered to my comment. But I am willing to disagree with statement about media influencing real world. Media is NOT responsible for the psychos which are at that borderline state where a bunch of drawn naked children would make them go and perform pedophilia on real children. It's the same dialogue over and over: whether violent video games cause school shooting, violent death metal songs cause violent behaviour, D&D cause satanism or PewDiePie cause terrorism. This is a deeply flawed argument, because normal people won't go and be violent after watching an anime and psychos should be in asylums. Notice: I am not saying that media doesn't influence the real world at all, just that mentally healthy people are reasonable enough to differentiate fiction from reality when it is needed. Media can worsen your mental issues if you already have ones, not create new (except digital addiction, but that was not the point of conversation). As for morality of child marriage and breeding, of course it is wrong from your moral stand point, it is from mine too, I just simply understand that different cultures have different morals. Also for example child marriage is still practiced in India, not in sense of breeding, but in sense of that parents choose the spouse for your life and that kind of mentality has it's advantages, it doesn't come from nowhere. Just as Spartan culture, where they've thrown ill-born babies off a cliff, wasn't wrong in itself. Barbaric from modern view, yes, but has it's logic. Upd: just saw your other comment and I already said about that, yes, while it is not an optimal strategy nowadays to breed children as soon as they can, but as for the primitive tribe living in a highly dangerous world maybe there's logic to it, and the morals come from logic which is needed for survival. And the last argument of yours was freedom. And freedom as anything is a resource. Freedom os not an absolute right in any society. It is not needed in every society. Freedom as a resource can be exchanged for safety for example: look at the China. Not the freest country, but surely a safe one. China is not enough? Look at Japan: seemingly a much more free country but it is very safe not because of the public safety forces but because of an enormous societal pressure that comes with you breaking even unwritten rules, so it's not exactly that free. Western culture on the other hand has a cult of freedom nowadays, as if it was the single most precious thing in the world, which is not that universal, of course, because different moralities have different takes on freedom.

[@eol273]

well this anime is not for children. Its strictly 18+ Its kinda dumb to complaint that the gore horror story has gore and horror in its story? I get the cp thing, i dont like it either but other then that this anime is very great for what it supposed to be. Also as an artist i find mangaka's artstyle so pretty i honestly have learnt one or two things about my skething process because of them. mmyeah

[@notaspeck6104]

The show is 18+ but the characters aren’t? Yeah that make sense lol. Like at a certain point to torture and erotica stuff is so drawn out that you have to question, why do they have to be kids again? Why can’t they even be late teens? Like CP isn’t something you just ignore, like bro ‘other than that’? The fact is that it’s just ignorant to pretend like there aren’t a ton of people out there with perverted thoughts and tendencies, and like it or not when this sort of stuff in media is endorsed or turned a blind eye to, it validated those perverts desires in their heads. So the question is, to what extent is the content of the show narratively justified? And in this case I don’t think having your main character (who looks like she’s 8) strung up naked as a ‘punishment’, is justified. If you want to world build and show the cruelty of the system, there’s plenty of other cruel things you can do that don’t involve sexualising or objectifying a child. It doesn’t matter if the child if fictional, or if the audience isn’t meant to be children. It’s the principle and the fact that again, perverts use this sort of media to justify their sick thoughts. And in this case the content is so suggestive that part of the accountability does fall on the author directly. As for the gore stuff, it’s fine? I haven’t seen anyone complaining about the gore/horror elements, it’s the compromising situations the underage characters are often in that’s weird. Plenty of shows have done horror with young characters, that is not what people have an issue with.

[@eol273]

@@notaspeck6104 You have a point for sure, but i, for example, do not really care because it’s art and not real children… But also because i think it is the shock factor of the show like they’re children in this cruel world with monsters and awful people. Where the morality is broken in every way and you just ask yourself “what the f is wrong with everybody?”. It’s some type of torture p%rn by itself, kinda like human centipede(which i think is great) And i also don’t drool over the children so I don’t understand what’s so se₽ual in naked kids? Idc man, I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. But im also the person who thinks that the art should not be censored in any way, because the sole reason for art to exist is to express and cause emotion. I think a lot of people feel so many emotions while watching this anime and id say it means that the art is good even if it’s concerning and deranged. But this factor is what makes MiA the MiA, even though i wouldn’t say like it’s the best and my favourite or recommend it because yeah…

[@sunnyexastris]

​@eol273 okay, im about to say this as respectfully as i can , and i am showing genuine concern in this . I know some people use this kind of stuff to insult people but i genuinely do not mean to insult you bc it's an actual problem everywhere . But are you okay watching all that stuff? My first reaction reading your comment was to be annoyed because i see that " it doesnt matter they're not real" everywhere online . This way of thinking i personally believe is unbelievably harmful because while the characters are not real , they definitely depict very real problems . ( and saying its okay because the kids are fictional just waters down pedophilia as a crime more . Pedopornographic imagery is a crime even if it's drawn for a reason . It's an actual law) You talk about how it is art and art is made to make the audience feel , which is very true! But to "excuse" shocking content underneath the context of art is something that can be debated for hours because then the question starts becoming "is art legally untouchable" (because the purpose of art would be to make the audience feel , no matter how) and "how do you differentiate illegal content and art" (and when do we draw the line between the two) its definitely an interesting thing to debated considering art imitates real life , but also vice versa! You say you enjoyed the human centipede which i cant say i have the same opinion , if anything i thought the writer wanted to make shock content underneath the excuse of it being art , and got pretentious enough to make 2 more movies . (And im saying this as someone who doesnt like gore and is an art student so , of course i may not be the targeted audience for it , lol .) Now coming back to my initial concern , i am worried watching this kind of content could really mess you up . You bring up art and emotion so may i ask you : how do you feel watching human centipede or made in abyss? Is there anything else that you like about it other than the shock content? And as well as why do you like the shock factors? Are you not unhappy (or losing dopamine) exposing yourself to content like it ? Again i want to apologize if this comes off as rude but its more like curiosity of how you actually think about it . I am only a stranger on the internet and in no way shape or form im gonna try to force you to change the way you think but it genuinely doesnt feel like this kind of content is good for anyone . Thank you if you took the time to read all that and even respond to it.

[@eol273]

@@sunnyexastris What the?… 🐸 No, it doesn’t make me “unhappy” I like horror stories, i like gore stories, i like messed up stories, i like scary attractions, i like very detailed true crime cases and so on. I even like a little bit more in my private life if you get me. It doesn’t make me “messed up”. I like the adrenaline i like the realness that this art portrays it makes me feel so many emotions! But it doesn’t mean that I can’t enjoy fluff. In fact, my favourite type of stories are the ones with good ending. I also like very romantic and sentimental stories. I don’t like boring stories! The ones you watch and go “okay, why am i watching this again?” I watch/read/do things to feel. I would NEVER hurt anyone if you’re trying to say i would! Im a pacifist, which is very scary considering im Russian and here you cannot have your opinion. Being a pacifist saying “im against war, killing people, harm and i want everyone to be happy” considered infantile and insane. I don’t know why i like what i like! But maybe it’s because i want to dissociate myself from the world i live in and the life i live. The boring, nothing happens, everything is the same- life and only thing that sticks out is horror and fear for my life and lives of other people because of war. And my existence as a whole because being LGBTQIA+ in Russia is pretty darn illegal. So, in fully controlled and safe environment i can engage in these activities and maybe heal my trauma and relief stress. Or maybe i just find it entertaining, because, as i said, there isn’t a lot of things going on in my life. I prefer a very slow paced, safe and peaceful life. So the only way i can get adrenaline is through watching and reading, going to attractions or… reading the news really… Well i hope this interview answers some of your questions and i hope you don’t think i am insane or something!

[@koni.K]

im so pissed because i remember seeing nanachi and i was like "damn that character looks cool" i watch the first season, i enjoyed the story but god damn the weird p3do shit it had has made me drop Mia for the time being

[@TulipMawlz]

Sort of off topic but I love Arne they are so cute

[@sunnyexastris]

THANK YOU :'3

[@kymo6343]

Here's what I wonder: For all everyone says about the worldbuilding, and it is good worldbuilding, but even though everyone ofc claims that's what they're watching it for, I wonder what's really the case. I wonder if the main character had been Riko's mother instead of Riko, would the story have been more popular by appealing to a wider audience or less popular bc most of the fanbase was in fact watching it for the sus scenes with toddler-looking characters...

[@sunnyexastris]

I dont think so lol..A lot of made in abyss's success comes from the fact it has a bad reputation and a lot (but not all) of people decide to watch it out of morbid curiosity or because they're into that kind of stuff..

[@DSh1105]

It's sad that such good worldbuilding is wasted on this garbage. Great video!

[@bittgrundy]

This is where I’ll ask the question here’s the question I ask” you are a parent, your child has gotten straight A’s and all their subjects and you had promised to let them watch television and you remove the parental block why there is only two channels one has Mortal Kombat style of Gore the other one is just pure porn which will you allow your child to watch? Keep in mind you had promised to allow your child to watch the TV. Do you go back on your promise because you don’t want your child to watch any of that or will you remove one of the channel blockers to let them watch channel and which one will it be?”

[@jvmenesesmoros]

the way you pronounce made in abyss its so painful to hear

[@sunnyexastris]

Well how do you want me to pronounce it?? Im sorry if its bc of my accent but i can't exactly control it 💔