@MadisonCunningham

In this Deadwax episode, Jack Conte and Ryan Lerman are joined by singer-songwriter / guitarist Madison Cunningham to talk about one of her favorites: Bjork. While they listened to Bjork's "Venus As A Boy", the trio discusses Bjork's production, vocal approach, lyrics, sonic world, etc. and how Bjork is one of the greatest ever.
HUGE thank you to Madison Cunningham for joining us!
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[@richardlehoux]

Bjork studied in classical music and piano at 6, released her first album at 11, and part of punk and jazz bands during her teens...

[@figgettit]

everybody knows that

[@richardlehoux]

@@figgettit someone is in a bad mood… 😂

[@figgettit]

@@richardlehoux Richard does his daily shadow work

[@teodordl]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@figgettit I once had an embarassing comment section feud with some thirty-something dude who claimed that Björk could not possibly have purposefully written a melody in the locrian mode, and contrasted her with more cerebral composers such as the members of Dream Theater who were obviously intently crafting their music using advanced music theory. While the latter might be the case, no amount of evidence of Björk’s classical training and experience could convince him that she was anything other than an intuitive composer, since he had sung in a pop-band (and reading more into it-because she is a woman?).

[@jasonsykes9501]

🖲️She is a God. 🖲️

[@thesamplecorner]

That "sound" you're talking about at around 3:00 is a Sample from Mayemi Miyamoto, called "Music for Shō and harp" from 1986 :)

[@j__r0d]

hyperballad was the song that did me in for björk as well.

[@dpclerks09]

same, unless you count DJ Shadow's sample of Possibly Maybe from his Endtroducing album.

[@dpe4]

Humble brag here - I saw the Sugarcubes in 1989. Wonderful

[@billium99]

That would have been awesome! The Here Today...tour?

[@dpe4]

@@billium99 91X-X Fest II - New Order / Public Image Ltd / The Sugarcubes / De La Soul

[@NebraskaGonvilleJones]

@@dpe4Omg, I am sooo jealous! That gig sounds absolutely incredible. Awesome dude

[@alxkmlr1]

Same here.

[@storageheater]

I saw her at the Union Chapel with the Brodsky Quartet in 1999, it was extraordinary, despite the intense cold and my nose getting full of soot from all the candles. But god, I'd have loved to have seen her in the Sugarcubes era

[@TheGreatKrystoff]

Madison is so freaking good with you guys. I'd be down with her as a full time co-host lol. Also I hope this has one of your typical follow-on episodes talking about Madison's music next. Her guitar playing turns my brain inside out

[@BlueLou232]

just a few too many "likes" for my liking😏

[@elainealmquist957]

I have consistently said that this team needs a vocalist, because there is an entire set of musical terminology missing otherwise!

[@KM-pm6qe]

I just found my way all the way back to your comment just to say thanks for turning me on to this awesome artist. I’m obsessed now!

[@vegadeth]

Here I am agreeing alongside them like they’re preaching the gospel. Bjork is such a genuine amazing artist

[@ngardos]

Bjork's Sonic Symbolism pod reveals a lot about her process. This was a pandemic obsession listening to her talk through her process and inspiration. Great choice to dissect! I'm also really into Possibly Maybe from Post. Also, Madison being here and articulating is perfect! I'm gonna go to Staples and pick up some new legal pads.

[@avedic]

Ooooh.....thank you! I've been meaning to check that podcast out, but keep forgetting.

[@bentucker2301]

Is that where she takes apart old TVs?

[@anaelhonings8683]

@@bentucker2301 er... nope... That happened on TV promo for a Sugarcubes tour (back in the 80's)

[@berke2336]

I just wanna take a moment to appreciate this channel, the fact that you have the founder of PATREON making insanely in depth, interesting, educational music content with no sponsor breaks while giving his friends and people he admires a place to really shine, so cool.

[@dpclerks09]

Madison is VERY perceptive when it comes to discussing music. It shows in her own work, too. My favorite part of this series is seeing how different musicians perceive, intuit, and discuss music with their own vocabulary, and bouncing that off of everyone else in the room.

[@chrisjohns960]

Can we please talk about Madisons music though? She’s absolutely incredible

[@wheelchairfly]

I came here just to write that exact comment!

[@BassByTheBay]

PLEASE. 🤞

[@BassByTheBay]

At least talk about her recent release, "Subtitles" - what a brilliant composition. 🤯

[@YoukiPOnMoving]

And about her fabulous drummer beth goodfellow

[@pitpride1220]

Gigantic missed opportunity. She's like the new Joni Mitchell of our time

[@raggedrec]

the main sample is Music for Sho and Harp (Cort Lippe) Mayumi Miyatav

[@skiptabor]

Good call! Nellee Hooper on the production as well. It certainly sound like he brought a lot to this track.

[@Ciulla55]

Got me excited for someone to talk about Bjork!

[@cocoachunky9619]

Just wanted to say as a mailman, this show has been a delight to listen to in podcast form at work. Thank you for doing that :)

[@AndyGoldner]

Born 1965, from 1970 she attended the Barnamúsíkskóli Reykjavíkur music school, where she spent ten years, among other things. was taught singing, piano and flute. ​ ​

[@okanomode]

sure i'm not the first to say so here, but Bjõrk is very much a classically trained composer & a skilled producer who is able to draw from many different disciplines. She knows exactly what she's doing. She also stays very open to mystery & communing with the sounds of nature. I'm sure happy accidents happen for her -- but she is a composer thru & thru.

[@mad24r45]

"I have a feeling she just exists" is as close as you can get. It's the je-ne sais-quoi. She is free and when she is not she is seeking to be. Not to be mistaken by I'm free in my music, but at home I enjoy myself as Martha Stewart. It is through and through. Therefore it can't apply to the "normal" world, so you are forced to create your own one. Admirably exceptional. Great episode, thanks to everybody involved.

[@Carlito_Sway]

Bjork does indeed read and write traditional music notation- I recall once seeing scores of her string arrangements for Joga and Pagan Poetry in her manuscript and being absolutely gobsmacked. It brought a whole level of depth to her genius that I hadn't appreciated prior.

[@soulie1971]

She is classically trained and absolutely can read and write notes..

[@okanomode]

i love how the dissection & study of this song between the three of u illuminates the genius of it. I agree that Björk is absolutely a creator of entire worlds within each album.

[@hackapump]

The Debut album was produced by Nellee Hooper. BTW, I think the Bjork quote about computers in music production was: ”If there’s no soul in the music, it’s because no one put it there. You can’t blame the tools”. And yes, she does have classical music training.

[@kbsjudgmentroom6154]

tis song has a sample the song is Music for Shō" by Mayumi Miyata, Marius de Vries played on the track at the time he used the Roland D50 and DX7 but the part on 1&3 (2:50) is the sample

[@thefungai1]

I fell in love with bjork with the sugar cubes “birthday” kills!

[@jaggy-snake]

Dead Wax is back. So happy !

[@ericleiter6179]

Me too!!! SO happy they're back...this entire album by Bjork was amazing, my girlfriend at the time played it constantly...every song on it has that eclectic, yet sophisticated touch...definitely a world of her own!!!

[@Bow503]

The Motown is definitely there. In an interview, she said her favorite voice or song is "Rock with you" from "Off the Wall" by Michael Jackson. And that album uses strings in that manor too.

[@maryannappiagyei4277]

I’m excited see Madison Cunningham on show talk about. Amazing legend signing of ever.

[@thembill8246]

I still remember the first time somebody played Medulla for me. I had heard some other Björk before, but it never grabbed me like that album did, straight from The Pleasure is All Mine. After that, going back to the rest of her library was a whole different experience.

[@marc5535]

Such a great insight at just shy of the 29 minute point, where you mention how a killer groove foundation allows all kinds of hijinks melodically. There's a short video here on YT called "No Wrong Notes with Victor Wooten" that talks about this concept exactly. Bang on, Dead Wax - bang on.

[@rickenbacker40011]

The telegraph version of hyperballad is EVERYTHING

[@surfguard]

Björk went to music school from age 4 where she learnt to sing and play piano and flute. So I guess musically she's rather literate.

[@ego093]

Björk is tough to talk about with understanding her history and cultural background. And as far as Venus as a Boy is concerned, the importance of it being included in The Professional (and basically driving the score for the middle third) cannot be overstated.

[@jeterman2000]

Hey guys - Thanks for the very fun episode. I'm a huge fan of Madison. Another artist that comes to mind similar to what you talked about with Bjork is Peter Gabriel. Cheers!

[@shiatsufurlan]

After over 20 years, Hyperbalad still makes me cry every time. So strong! Love Venus as a boy too! ❤

[@byebyecitybyebye]

when you were talking about the strings I was like "where have I heard that melody before???" and then I realized that it's very much like melodic lines used in two or three different songs at the end of the album "morning view" by incubus, specifically "echo" and "aqueous transmission," and, to a lesser extent, "are you in?" so similar that I had to look it up, and sure enough, incubus singer brandon boyd claims that "aqueous transmission," in particular, was inspired by bjork.

[@paulosena584]

That’s my dream KZbin content right there!! Please keep it flowing ❤

[@JonzieBoy]

One of your best episodes, imho! Thank you so much!

[@clayatube]

These are so great. More, please!

Björk's musical influences are myriad but on Debut you can hear the influences of Kate Bush, Cocteau Twins (and the 4AD Label), Electronic Dance Music/House (like 808 State) as well as Indian percussion from her London experiences and interest in Bollywood, plus vocal inflections which incorporate a decidedly South London accent on her English. You can hear early Massive Attack which is hardly surprising given the Nellee Hooper overlaps and Drum and Bass. Not so much cinematic as she creates soundscapes reflecting her musical and general life experiences from London, Manchester and Bristol. That's the post hoc analysis but what she produced was other worldly at the time and it doesn't age because it seems to sit apart from a time. Great show.

[@themadgranola]

That’s not me sitting in my livingroom yelling « Kate Bush! » while they’re talking about world builders 😂

[@BassByTheBay]

​​@@themadgranolaRight?! Kate was absolutely groundbreaking and clearly put enormous thought into her visuals (and, well, _everything_ else), and Bjork cites Bush as one of her musical heroes.

[@ChadHensley]

Great video but I'm most excited that you are talking about what you've been listening to lately at the end! All three artists were brand new to me. Cannot wait for the next episode!

[@MrMurkosullivan]

Fantastic to see you guys back. Discovered Tiny Habits this week and then saw Ryan playing with them on some live stuff. You guys gotta get them on. Their (few) songs are incredible and I think they need all the support and encouragement we can give them. Also, we need to hear the writing and recording process for those songs. The harmonies, the chords choices... The rhythm play. The blend.

[@schmargle]

This was a really good one, you guys. Talking about Björk + talking with Madison = really good stuff.

[@trappedkitty5335]

Kate Bush had a visual presence, her own sound/world/alien visitation vibe... She is and always was able to wear her (he)art on her sleeve and her music touched us in its raw humanity. Another artist, who has very few lyrics and is in her own world with an amazing ability to craft emotions from thin air: Lisa Gerrard, who has made magic on multiple solo and collaborative albums and also as half of Dead Can Dance. I watched The Sugarcubes at the Warfield in SF, when the speakers went out, so they turned their monitors around to play. I loved it. They did a version of "Motorcycle Mama" that sent me. I also went to see her tour for _Debut._ It was magical and also at the Warfield. I always thought she'd easily be able to pull the crowd needed to fill the Shoreline Amphitheatre. Cripes, I need to make a mix tape. Xb

[@bullerfugl]

Would love to have her (and other artists) in to talk about their own songs, She's such a fantastic gem

[@brandycolmer7052]

That was a fun convo. I spent my early 20’s driving around Los Angeles in a vintage 280zx with Debut and Post in heavy rotation, singing at the top of my lungs. Also The Sunday’s and Tori Amos.

[@Raygun249]

Yes! Me too but in my mid 20’s. Bjork, Sundays, and Tori Amos!

[@CarbonSolutions]

And the podcast series she did chronicling all of her albums is great too, Sonic Symbolism

[@AhmetKizilay0]

What a great episode! In addition to the bjork songs mentioned, unravel is also worth checking out.

[@ThvonS]

This was brilliant. Feels like taking part in a conversation with gifted minds. And It makes another nordic soul feel less alone in this world (and now I know why scary pockets arrangements are so good) Thanks

[@donnaevans9894]

OOOOO I LOVE Madison Cunningham!

[@astrolopitekos]

KZbin needs more of this. Great chat. Peak Björk for me is that Vespertine + Medulla + Biophilia phase. Just incredibly visceral.

[@jackwoods297]

Missed this channel. So glad we’re all back

[@vegadeth]

I always wondered if she sometimes records her vocals over a very minimalistic backing track, and then they build the rest later. It was great to hear them mention that possibility. Everything fits together perfectly yet parts sometimes sound so foreign to each other....and it just works! It's almost like rap instrumentals. The vocals don't have to fit in the same key and the instruments since the vocals are not sung. But Bjork sings and she just makes it work....amazingly

[@emilymitchell6823]

Great choice! Thanks for introducing me to Madison Cunningham too!

[@muumarlin1731]

Such a fun episode!!

[@murraypaulson]

When I first met Bjork's music I realized I had run into one of the great geniuses of music. Mozart, Bach, ... Superb.

[@muddlemore]

I just thought I’d say: I Love You guys!! Period. ‘Nuff said. More please.

[@paul_domici]

She's so amazing! I love this album and never even paid too much attention to the lyrics! The music alone is enough!

[@frankiecampos8909]

Heck yeah, love Madison!

[@HarryOsirian]

And, (sorry, was too caught up in my own world) ... of course, I appreciate you guys for loving and analyzing Björk's songs in this video 😊

[@popfortyfive]

18:56 add Kate Bush to that list of musicians whose visuals created a world

[@LudoTechWorld]

Exactly, to me, shes the most obvious one that came to mind in that regard.

[@avedic]

Oh wow....how am I only now discovering this channel? This is exactly the kind of music/songwriting stuff I want. There's plenty of great channels that deal in that milieu, but they never quite approach it the way I personally want to see. But just starting this video, and scrolling through the other videos, I'm already a fan. I was curious what Bjork song is "perfect" because that's...a tough choice. For me it's All Is Full of Love, specifically the single mix with the additional bass and rhythm. But there's plenty of Bjork songs I'd genuinely call perfect...and Venus As A Boy is definitely one. The title is super clever and catchy on it's own. But then the playful seductive mix of this plinky motif with the coy and flirtatious Bollywood-esque strings....it just works on every level.

[@BassByTheBay]

11:04 - When two of you were toddlers and one of you wasn't even a glimmer in someone's eye, I heard "Birthday" by The Sugarcubes (1988) and immediately fell in love with Bjork. On their first album, you can tell she was still learning English because she'd pronounce some words incorrectly. E.g., I remember chuckling when I heard her pronounce "give" as "jiv". As to her emphasis on odd syllables, I think that has more to do with her desire to serve the melody than it does with English being her second language. I've noticed some native English speakers, e.g. Stevie Wonder, also do this sometimes. You can tell that certain artists come up with a melody that's important to them, and the lyric is secondary to the melody.

[@wadesummers4102]

Birthday was even a bit earlier. I too am a man of a certain age and I think Birthday was getting MTV play the summer of 1987 before I went off to college. I still have the Life's too good CD and it does have the 1988 copyright.

[@HarryOsirian]

Been following Björk since the 90s. Saw the famous Westbank interview (it's on youtube in full length, look it up) and saw the part where she said "they look at the computer and say... There's no soul here.. but if there is no soul, it's because nobody put it there". I always remembered that part. The last shot of the documentary (again, go look it up, it's fantastic) is of a white-clad bjork standing at the edge of an Icelandic glacier. That image was etched in my mind. Last year I got to go to Iceland, stand on the same glacier and.... I kid you not... get to be with Bjork in the same room where she played a DJ-set to compensate for her concert show cancellation. It was weird and exciting being there with her. She was up in the balcony playing a very eclectical song choice, which later became my goto playlist all through my journey in Iceland. I still listen to it to this day. Some real gems in there. Here's the footage of that magical evening: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYvCfWt5ftJ-rrc

[@dbfisher]

I love Madison’s cover of “Army of Me”

[@freaksofnashville]

That Hyperballad track is so breathtakingly gorgeous. Thanks for bringing that one up. ❤

[@terenasimons5247]

Love Bjork, was so happy the song was Venus as a boy, but I think army of me was the first song I heard and was intrigued, it was so different but it worked, had elements of hip hop in the baseline, electronica obviously and more, was the typical sound of the British/ european era of the 90s, like massive attack. Then discovered all her other awesome music, she definitely creates her own eclectic world and it's beautiful!!!!

[@imapisces1]

Bjork's voice and the notes she could reach when in The Sugarcubes was absolutely stunning.

[@monicamaa8755]

I’ve been fascinated by Björk since her days with The Sugar Cubes. This is one of my favorites from her solo work.

[@fridjon]

Greetings from iceland, love your channel!

[@Pr0HoN]

Madison's takes were very insightful! I've loved Bjork for years, and it was refreshing to hear americans talk about her music and artistry seriously and on a deeper level. Thank you for a great episode!

[@passerbycmc]

More Maddison, love her takes and is great to hear what a vocalist has to say

[@60secmusic96]

the intro bassline is kind a bluesy Db minor pentatonic line over the Db major9 slash chord with the 3 as base note of this "percussive" sample. The sound in Second 13 is the #11, lydian mode for the major chord, so i think it all makes sense!

[@ektopia]

Great show. maddi is amazing!

[@Sagitarria]

Thanks for this. It’s been like 20 years since I listed to a full Björk album and this sent me on a full discography journey.

[@1DJTheMessenger]

Her DJ sets have become legendary as well.

[@BassByTheBay]

What a pleasant surprise! Madison became my favorite new artist with the release of Revealer. Absolutely love her! And I wish the hell I could get tickets to a show, but every time I look for her shows in the Bay Area, they're already sold out 😢.

[@josedojaquez9003]

watch/listen to the arrangements she made for her live rendition of this song and you'll be blown away even further.

[@nicklavkulik5670]

One of my favourite episodes ever from y'all! also #teammadison

[@Scoots1994]

Bjork came to my notice in the late 80s with The Sugarcubes, but she started as a professional at 10 years old. I think she started so early and covered so much ground by the time she was 20 that's just what she continued to do ... she has no chains to hold her back, it's just her.

[@cristianovia]

I always felt like that at the beginning of her career, she knew already where, what even when everything it was going to fold out. And in 30 years I will write my 12th album that is about that. Crazy!

[@grooveduststudio]

shes a creative artist creating colors with music - like painting an image with sound

[@Sincerelyiris]

This was awesome. Anytime Bjork applies grit to her voice in a song or does her wide mouth yell thing, I'm sold.

[@klaushjerrild]

Well done all three...☀️☀️☀️

[@stuartmcgillivray9879]

I've always loved this song. You're making me fall in love again

[@user-ei8ye8yn7p]

Imagining falling down and throwing things of a cliff are the most common things any kid thinks.. it's like experimenting with material endurance..As a grown up,she mentally goes from warmth of a relationship (returning to the guy who sleeps) were before the lives her small "revolutionary " and "experimental " self by causing noise of a cliff..Makes perfect sense..And Bjork is the most positive person,who also is highly experimental..So there you have it..😊

[@soulie1971]

I went to her concert in September 2023, her visuals are insane and the whole show just sucked me in. After the concert there was a silence when we were leaving the venue like everybody was in their heads full of Björk‘s dreamy fantastic world. It was a stark opposite of the excitement before the concert.

[@CynthiaTomArtsandHealing]

There's a video of her creating on her own remotely in the mountains somewhere. I saw it on KZbin years ago.

[@nadegeandthekites941]

Enjoyed this analysis of this brillant song. Worth also mentioning that Kate Bush was Björk’s inspiration as someone with a unique sound and idiosyncratic world of her own.

[@glennlavertu3644]

So to answer a question posed in this video: Bjork studied piano and flute at an early age at the Barnamúsíkskóli in Reykjavík. She had a Icelandic music career at age 10 or 11 and therefore stopped her schooling. I'm sure she was aware the bass and the voice were in different keys. Perhaps a video on atonal music is in order here.

[@paulseitz672]

Her vocals (the lyrics) are as much a part of the sound as they are the meaning. Loving the Hagstrom Impala - you guys always seem to have the coolest non-cliche guitars!

[@ThatDudeGuru]

We're back! Wooooooooo!

[@briangarcia8384]

This song is amazing.

[@alexandreazzalini-machecle4775]

Bjork was living in London at the time and got quite a lot into Bollywood music (via the Indian community in the UK)

[@brianspenst1374]

I recently went back to the album Post. That is one of the few perfect albums. Every song is good, several are great. It shows so much range in singing and style.

[@JochenVogel]

Thanks!

[@eatdrinkwineguy]

Absolutely my favourite a Bjork song. Glad you did this. Will be checking out Madison’s stuff too. As far as her lyrics she was right into the dance and techno scene blowing up at the time so I think that really informs how she sings. It’s more about the melody and sounds rather than song lyrics. Anyway, that’s my take anyway.

[@gbulmer]

Thank you, this is the most enjoyable discussion about music this century. Maybe a metaphor will help? Our conscious mind can boil an egg exactly right, however, our unconscious mind decides we'd like an egg. Maybe Björk has a dialogue going? Hyperbalad captured me too. Even my autonomic nervous system 'forgot' to breath because that was less important.. Best Wishes, All. ☮

[@CarbonSolutions]

Awesome, would love to hear the same treatment to anything on Vespertine. I think it’s a masterpiece. Great stuff, thanks!

[@artemsahaidak9052]

So glad I found this show, thank you! Please talk one day about Peter Gabriel.

[@DeadeyeDaily]

15:00 Taken figuratively, "Eyes closed or open" is insanely deep and poetic.

[@VictorPM1550]

To that different key discussion towards the end: listen to "Enjoy" on her Post album. The intro key, and then the bass key. A Tricky track 🙂

[@willfry23]

Enjoyed watching this but there’s a brilliant breakdown of this track on KZbin where the guy talks about the specific samples etc. in case anyone wants some more info.

[@mikellyy]

You need a video for each of her albums. Medulla is a beast.

[@karlvanbeckum9029]

Björk's Post album may be my favorite. It's Fusion.