Major Transit Expansions Coming to Salt Lake City

[@TransitTangents]

SO Exciting to see the potential for Salt Lake City! Is there another place you want us to take a look at transit expansion plans in? Let us know! Be sure to follow us on socials and support the show if you can! ‼ALSO: Join the LIVESTREAM Event put on by Rio Grande Plan Organizers 9/12/24 at 6pm MST‼: kzbin.infow135-Qd3bT8 More info on their event here: events.rgptools.com/reconnecting-communities-the-rio-grande-plan/

[@FrederickJenny]

The Rio Grande Plan NEEDS to happen and locals need to speak up about it because the elected officials are trying to slow roll it. Speak up speak out and make it happen. Thanks for making this video!

[@scpatl4now]

What is really impressive is not only how great a system it is for a city it's size, but they somehow managed to build it out in a really fast timeline compared to other cities.

[@TransitTangents]

So impressive for it's size! We would do anything for an equivalent in Austin lol (we'll have some Project Connect content coming soon). Thanks for watching! -Louis

[@ThePlecoPal]

Olympics

[@jazzcatjohn]

An at-grade system is much faster to build than elevated/subway which is what Seattle is building. Nice system for its size though I agree.

[@DesertDwight]

@@ThePlecoPalmost of the rail was built well after the Olympics

[@ZackScriven]

Thank you for covering the Rio Grande Plan! Im part of the community advocacy group! We really need all the support and exposure we can get! So thank you!

[@jameslongstaff2762]

I live in SLC. I have hope our city can get better

[@andrewk9267]

Build the Rio Grande Plan! Bury the rails, reunite the East and West sides, get the passenger trains moving faster, give the city and state a beautiful central station!

[@sawyerhamilton446]

Pushing hard for the Rio Grande Plan! It'd be transformational for the city and the state!

[@krdeans]

The Rio Grande plan is the most important piece for SLC and Utahs transit and mobility future. Unfortunately UTA is not yet on board but this citizen led plan is incredible. Momentum is growing, thank you for highlighting it.

[@davidferris8782]

Thanks for covering the Rio Grande Plan. Really hope it happens. I spent some time a few months ago emailing every government official and body I could think of about this, and actually got some positive responses back.

[@Zezetheb]

Thanks for covering salt lake! I’ve been following the forum where the rio grande plan was originally come up with for years now, so it’s been amazing to see that it’s blown up so much! Now we just need it to get built!

[@ZackScriven]

Let's do it!!! Get a shovel and let's start digging! 😜

[@ThePlecoPal]

S line is a streetcar rather than typical LRT

[@ZackScriven]

but with the same rolling stock (:

[@qjtvaddict]

Just low capacity LRT

[@AstroMagi]

Love the coverage of the Rio Grande Plan! Can't wait to see it happen along with the other expansions!

[@jonathanmangum4347]

You guys need to check out Provo’s UVX brt line. It actually has median lane bus lanes a majority of the route and connects two universities as well as Orem and Provo Frontrunner stations as well as decent signal priority and 7 minutes headways during peak hours. Apparently it also has more ridership than the Trax Greenline

[@TheUnknownmonkey26]

There is some semblance of logic for the name of the S Line: It was named for Salt Lake and South Salt Lake cities, and the Sugarhouse neighborhood that the line runs through.

[@TransitTangents]

That certainly makes some sense! Thanks for watching 🙌

[@ZackScriven]

@@TransitTangents and it's a "StreetCar" even though it uses the same rolling stock :)

[@ZakhadWOW]

NO IT ISNT :P It is S for SILVER lol ;)

[@ZakhadWOW]

@@ZackScriven the big issue it that it runs only single cars, so in *that* sense its a glorified streetcar that flexes in the middle

[@byx_blu]

@@TransitTangentsThe S Line is in South Salt Lake but its named because it runs on the old Rio Grand “Silver Spur” if i remember correctly. If you take the S Line, each station has information on the history of the rail line

[@jessehughes8274]

Huge Rio Grande supporter, it more than makes sense given the land that can be redeveloped and the progress it makes in healing the east-west divide that SLC is working on!

[@TransitTangents]

It would be amazing to see it happen! We're rooting for you all from Austin! -Louis

[@DesertDwight]

Appreciate the love for SLC and its transit. Definitely a good system for a small city

[@ZakhadWOW]

I did the quick checking using the interstate exits as a lose guide, and the complete line from Payson to Brigham City would be 115~ miles. A mind-boggling concept of a commuter rail line, but since its all once giant ling snake, it makes sense. THe idea of not having to DRIVE all the way from BC to Payson is amazing, cause that is one lonngg drive thru heavy traffic unless its late at night or a weekend.

[@ZackScriven]

@@ZakhadWOW it’s not really a “commuter rail line” it’s an intercity rail line. Commuter rail service typically goes into downtown in the morning and out of downtown in the evening with limited service throughout the day. Front runner runs all day both ways.

[@xjing800]

I don’t think front runner ever gets stuck behind freight trains. It runs completely on its own tracks disconnected from the Union Pacific tracks. Most of the delays are just from waiting for other front runner trains to pass i think

[@tempest_dawn]

i have heard they do still have to give union pacific access to their right of way, but they've negotiated for it to be in their off-hours - reportedly this is why they can't do overnight service

[@jezzarisky]

There used to be a section north of Ogden leading to a Pleasant View stop that did share track with Union Pacific but because it was too unreliable and infrequent they stopped serving the Pleasant View stop, and currently is fully on UTA operated track.

[@xjing800]

@@tempest_dawn i haven’t heard of this before. Why would Union Pacific need the frontrunner right of way? The only thing I can think of is like maybe as like a siding or just like an extra track to like store cars I guess? It doesn’t connect to any buisnesses I don’t think

[@tempest_dawn]

@@xjing800 i don't know the details but yeah - as it was told to me it's that there's track they only need to get to infrequently for storage that is cut off by the frontrunner line, so they need access sometimes in off-hours

[@atholmullen]

With Brightline West building their high speed line from LA to Las Vegas in time for the 2028 LA Olympics, it'd be great to see them then extend it to Salt Lake City in time for the 2034 Olympics.

[@ZakhadWOW]

that is something Amtrak is somewhat involved with, since there is already foundational work going on to design and renew the old Lines from the Pacific Northwest and LA thru SLC to Denver in both cases.

[@TransitTangents]

This would actually be very cool! -Louis

[@sawyerhamilton446]

Currently on the front lines of fighting for support for FrontRunner expanding from Provo to Payson, plenty of NIMBYs and a gang of farmers trying to stop the project from happening

[@benshields39]

RIO GRANDE PLAN RIO GRANDE PLAN RIO GRANDE PLAN

[@ZackScriven]

Rio Grande Plan! 💯

[@iamtobler]

Yay, you looked into the Rio Grande Plan! Thanks for another great SLC video and especially for bringing more attention to the plan!

[@bahnspotterEU]

I'm 99 percent sure FrontRunner already has a fully separate right of way from the freight trains. There are only a few track connections between FrontRunner and the UP anyway. Only a few UP locals in the SLC area might hold it back, but those are probably only a few times per week and could easily run at off-peak or night hours. The Rio Grande plan seems like a really nice upgrade and a modern, underground station would certainly buff SLC's transportation cred. It's good though that FrontRunner is set for upgrades to its scheduling and rolling stock, because an underground station for diesel trains isn't a great idea. Some form of electric power (preferably OHLE but the unfortunately currently more popular battery-tech would work too) needs to be adopted until then. Such an extensive redevelopment really shouldn't cheap out either. If you really want to give the city a new public transport hub, then the TRAX system should be directly integrated and stop right above. Things like a bike parcade also seem appropriate, but I'm sure that's already planned. Another thing to keep in the back of the head is that with increased length it might be time to split FrontRunner into two services. My idea would be one service running the maximum proposed length from Brigham City to Payson that runs express between Ogden and Provo, serving only more important intermediate stops as well as all SLC-stops. Between Ogden and Provo you could then introduce a service that makes all stops - like now - but this separation of services could then be used to open up new stations for that "stopper" to serve, without slowing down the journeys of people from further out. As it stands, some distances between stations are very long and I think there is potential to create new stations that could have TOD directly attached and that would increase system coverage further. If all this makes sense would have to be seen, especially taking infrastructure into account, which would have to be upgraded to include sections of quad-track to accommodate the express services.

[@devinmathews7809]

I'm 100% sure Front Runner runs on Union Pacific right of way.

[@DesertDwight]

@@devinmathews7809uhh you’re 100% wrong, UTA purchased its own right of way specifically so Frontrunner wouldn’t share with freight traffic

[@zyoninkiro]

@@devinmathews7809 As mentioned, UTA bought the old Denver and Rio Grande Western right of way. It was redundant to Union Pacific needs after the merger of UP and D&GRW so the ROW was sold to UTA. UTA has been big on buying railroad ROWs to preserve them for future transit use. The only part of FrontRunner which does not have it' own ROW is the section north of Ogden. This one reason why UTA has discontinued service north of Ogden.

[@EdwardM-t8p]

They got the 2034 games they need to get the Rio Grande plan built with the Olympic Village RIGHT THERE. Once the games are over, apartments (condominiums/co-ops) can be sold with an Olympic cachet.

[@ZakhadWOW]

Uh.. not really attentive are we.. The village will again be at the University. The winter Games do not need the huge village the summer games do, and everything was very well contained and secured up on that Dormitory complex (hell they built new dorms specifically FOR 2002). I can speak to that as working at the village was my entire assignment as a 2002 Volunteer. Sadly Ill be far too old to be one again (72 years old). Also that area is well situated for heading southeast down to the canyon and PC, or a shot across downtown to I015 to go to Snowbasin for alpine. Everything else should be in the SL valley itself.

[@watermelonman122]

Great video, thanks for summarizing all of our upcoming expansions. Quick clarification though, Frontrunner can not be held up by freight. The entire line is separated from the freight line, you can actually follow the whole line on Gmaps. The reason for doubletracking the whole line is obviously for more frequent trains, but more importantly it opens up Sunday for Frontrunner service. The current issue is that because it is single track, they have to set aside a whole day out of the week (Sunday naturally) to do inspection and maintenance on the line. So if you're flight arrives on a Sunday, using the Frontrunner is regrettably not an option. Doubletracking would allow them to run trains on all days of the week.

[@stanfordsweird4607]

The S line is a project that has a lot of potential, the dense neighborhood of sugarhouse is considered a second downtown for SLC, and when it gets extended further into sugarhouse it'll be more ideal

[@martinchow1381]

The S line is definitely a nice streetcar line, which is funny because it doesn’t actually run alongside any streets. It is a welcomed part of UTA in my opinion though as it connects to sugarhouse to the greater TRAX and certainly has the potential to expand further into other parts of South Salt Lake.

[@hamletgordillo2560]

Very excited to see these upcoming changes and improvements and I really appreciate the work you are doing to cover it, hope to see you in a few years when these are implemented in SLC!

[@MC_aigorithm]

omg a citiesbydiana shoutout is sending meeee

[@TransitTangents]

😂 I'm a super fan lol. There are a few citiesbydiana references sprinkled in the last two months or so haha.... She commented on one of our videos once and it feels like the biggest thing we have accomplished here. Thanks for watching! -Louis

[@harveyschwartz6789]

Great speaking voice...

[@jezzarisky]

The expansion of double track of the FrontRunner will be nice as this will increase times from 30-60 minutes to 15-30 minutes. In addition to the frequency it will open it to Sundays, reroute a section that will speed it up in that section, and increase the maximum speed the FrontRunner can go(currently it's allowed top speed it 79MPH). There are currently a few smaller things going on such as a new TRAX stop being put in at a new minor league baseball stadium on the Red TRAX line, and the Mid-Valley "BRT" that is mostly following a bus route already, just adding a small section of dedicated bus lanes(way less than 50% of the line), so clearly it's now a BRT. My understanding with the S-Line is that it was funded under an Obama transit plan that could only be used on Streetcars, thus it is technically separate from TRAX, but uses the same stock for the obvious reasons. Lastly, there is some talk about expanding the Red TRAX line further south-east into Riverton/Herriman area, though it's too early to say where this will go.

[@thatoneotherotherguy]

I've thought about a train from SLC to Kimball Junction before. Big problem: I-80 through Parley's Canyon hits a maximum grade of 6.0% in places, some of them very long lengths of grade. Are modern economical train options up to those kinds of slopes? Not to mention that it's already a pretty constrained right-of-way through a lot of it, especially below (west of) the East Canyon exit. Whatever happens to Little Cottonwood Canyon, it CANNOT just be a eye-wateringly expensive road widening. Something like a Gondola also solves the issues that area gets with interlodging, people getting trapped up there during blizzards. As much I try to stay away from car-oriented solutions, it would be nice to have a tunnel between the top of Big Cottonwood and Little Cottonwood canyons.

[@AbuNewYorkCity]

Vacation destinations need surprisingly good transportation.

[@theevilmoppet]

You guys should check out the Twin Cities light rail and brt system - a lot of issues and should be much more expansive, but still interesting.

[@TransitTangents]

We'll have to look into it! Thanks for watching!

[@morganscharman5027]

4:36 the S-line is part of the UTA (Utah Transit Authority) but not part of TRAX. TRAX is light rail system and the S-line (which stands for streetcar) is a streetcar so it has stops more closely spaced, runs at slower speeds, isnt double tracked, and only runs one car. I ride it from time to time and it’s a nice convenience but pretty limited in its usefulness.

[@slam854]

The short line you were mentioning is a low speed passenger link to get folks into Sugar House and Mill Creek business districts. It is a low ridership offered to support business off the main thoroughfares. They do have regular bus service with a more tangled bus routing.

[@nathanstrain2158]

TRAX has signal priority when a train is considered late.

[@ZackScriven]

Oh didn’t know that!

[@nathanstrain2158]

UTA's first BRT, the MAX has been discontinued.

[@qjtvaddict]

Sadly

[@ZakhadWOW]

@@qjtvaddict I learned that a lot of the core drive was the massive fraudulent usage, since they werent asking up front for the fare on the bus, it being a major connection from Trax. The expected demand also dropped due to other bus adjustments over the years from the debut of MAX.

[@ahohl84]

You confused East and West in the TRAX Light Rail Expansion section.

[@TransitTangents]

Sounds like something I would do tbh.... Good catch! Thanks for watching. -Louis

[@paxonf]

A train from SLC to Park City would be very complicated due to Parley's Canyon and harsh winter conditions.

[@TransitTangents]

Agreed! Doable, but difficult and unlikely.

[@eelfood]

I grew up in SLC. I remember when the first trax line opened before the Olympics. I turned into a train nerd the day that line opened. They also reconstructed the entire I-15 all through the valley from bountiful to the point of the mountain in the south. They got it all done before the Olympics. Long since lived away. Don’t doubt Utah’s ability to build out effective transportation systems quickly when they want to. Transit beyond busses m to the ski resorts has been talked about since forever. It’s just not economical. Fun to watch your show on UTA. Thanks. Makes me want to go visit Salt Lake (people from SLC don’t say city).

[@mmrw]

I’m in Denver, which in many ways is set up similarly to SLC (just with the mountains on the opposite side). There is some transit here that’s alright but overall it’s mostly pretty disappointing, I wish we were making these kinds of investments here as well

[@ZakhadWOW]

To be fair your mountains, and the ski/recreation areas are significantly farther away from Denver City Center compared to Salt Lake City. Given how far away DIA is from the city, and then the distance up to Winter Park (which I believe is the closest resort to Denver) you're talking 87~ miles and approx. 1h38 mins. Compare that to 32 miles from SLIA to Snowbird, the closest MAJOR resort, around 44 mins tops, unless there's another damn avalanche etc. That is a big part of why so many WInter Sports related companies are headquartering or setting down major functions in Ogden/SLC.

[@mmrw]

@@ZakhadWOW I’m not talking about transit to the ski resorts though, or at least not only that. The intercity and charter buses are honestly pretty decent for that. I’m talking about transit in the actual city and metro area, ie I wish that the light rail trains ran as frequently as SLC, I wish there was a Frontrunner style commuter rail line from Boulder through Denver to Colorado Springs, I wish there was any actual BRT here.

[@slam854]

A large flaw with SLC rail system are all the rail overpasses which focus local traffic to surface streets. Slow passage and stoppage of freight trains can interrupt these surface streets for over an hour. The cure is to put trains in tunnels reactivating the Rio Grand and Union Pacific depots. Hugely expenses but surface traffic and rail service will get separated.

[@twentysixbit]

You mentioned Frontrunner gets stuck behind freight trains... that doesnt happen? Its already on its own dedicated right of way, at least where its currently active

[@TransitTangents]

Our mistake! I think we were thinking Amtrak. Not sure. Added a note in the description.

[@davinhuffaker4670]

You guys forgot to mention the increase in max speeds. Currently, it's 79mph, but they want it to go up to 110mph with new stadler electric trains in the long term

[@ZackScriven]

We would LOVE Stadler FLIRT EMU train cars

[@TransitTangents]

We did miss this! I wonder how much it will improve travel times? We'll have to look into it! Thanks for watching. -Louis

[@Denres4thewin]

The S line is a slightly slower pace streetcar (that uses the exact same vehicles as the other TRAX lines, but has a slightly lower boarding height if I recall correctly.) that gives the Sugarhouse neighborhood (which is a secondary city center basically) access to the Rail network. It gets the lowest ridership of the whole network by far. I lived in sugarhouse for 2 years and despite living less than 2 miles from the line, never even thought to use it unfortunately.

[@elizabethdavis1696]

Please consider doing a video on Disney world transit

[@TransitTangents]

We lightly covered the Disney monorail a few weeks ago if you haven't seen that! But maybe we can do more in the future. Thanks for watching!

[@elizabethdavis1696]

@@TransitTangentsDisney world is one of the few places in America that adult Americans will willingly ride buses😂

[@tempest_dawn]

yeah okay you mixed up the longer-distance express bus routes (475, 472, etc) and the actual brt (uvx, ogx). i know, the naming is a mess but the "x" express routes do have dedicated right of way for most of their routes and give honestly great connectivity to several universities

[@stevenroshni1228]

getting ready for the Olympics should mostly be inspiration for things that need to be done anyway

[@samharp]

Please make the parking lot shirt 😂

[@nose10620]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@MegaLokopo]

Why does the orange line count as a new line? There are no new stops, travel times won't be lower, the only improvement is one fewer transfer.

[@AstroMagi]

There will be probably 2 new stops, and the plan is to run it 24/7 eventually

[@MegaLokopo]

@@AstroMagi On the new red line part or on pre existing track?

[@ZakhadWOW]

@@MegaLokopo red line form downtown east (400s), and green line from Downtown west, with a small loop heading west from 400 s Main around thru the Rio Grande area to connect up the blue line section by The Gateway where it jumps onto the green line track.

[@TheVideoLinkx]

They need a better line to go from South/West Jordan to Sandy/Draper area... Because there is no good way to go from West to East without having to go way north or south.

[@idancealways4ever440]

The S Line is fine.. you have to time your trax really well because it is only 1 train/light rail and runs every half hour. So kinda lame, if you are trying to maximize your time. I haven’t used the buses hardly at all. It’s intimidating to me. I know I should try more… I like trains because I know exactly where they are going. Yes It’s frustrating the freight trains! I would absolutely love a train from Salt Lake City to Park City!! Is it gonna happen in the 10 years to the Olympics? Absolutely not. Too many rich people who would not let a train go through their property litigation will take 10 years…

[@AdamFoster]

Its not only tourists that go snowboarding. And for the amount of carbon it would take out of the air, why do we care who it is that uses the teansit available? Driving to and from the mountains causes a lot of pollution, between the fuel consumption, and the crashes that happen. Especially by tourists who do not know how to drive in the snow. And if there is anyone we want to get comfortable with the convenience of transit, it's the wealthy, well connected house owners in Park City and Canyons.

[@ZakhadWOW]

Salt Lake Central when it went online was effectively the central hub for ALL forms of transport aside from the Airport: Greyhound Station (now permanently closed due to COVID all but killing Greyhound), Amtrak station, Front Runner, TRAX, and many buslines. It was the first and only real attempt to centralize things.. that was nearly 20 years ago, and its age is showing, but several plans are being proposed and mulled over.

[@FrederickJenny]

Their plans do nothing to help the east/west divide, which is why it is time for the Rio Grande Plan

[@twentysixbit]

They'll never build a rail line from Tooele its just not gonna happen

[@ZakhadWOW]

if it were possible to build heavy density from Magna all the way to Erda/Stansbury Park it would be feasible, but that's just too much open and unusable space. The smelter and tailings pile really hurt that situation.

[@travisstone3089]

Hit me up any time!

[@jplus1054]

It irks me that you didn't mention the fact that this is a community proposal instead of an actual plan by the government until halfway through. Just because a plan is good doesn't mean that it'll be implemented - mostly because our politicians are a bunch of asshats. There's no way this will be accepted properly, unfortunately. Too much money, too much time.

[@loganmillsap]

The Rio Grande Plan would be really cool, but the estimated cost is 3-5 billion dollars. The entire existing UTA network was built at a cost of ~$5B (adjusted for inflation), so I can't help thinking $3-5B would be much better spent on other things, for example: elevating TRAX lines through the downtown, creating a statewide intercity bus network, the Link Utah plan for intercity Amtrak service, aggressive light rail expansion, or electrifying FrontRunner, etc. etc. I worry sometimes the RGP is sucking all the oxygen out of the room for more transformative projects.

[@AstroMagi]

The Rio Grande Plan is more than a transit project, so I don't think it should be treated as a zero sum with transit expansions. TechLink, FR double tracking, FR extensions, etc. are all going to happen with or without the RGP. Definitely not sucking the oxygen out of anything. If anything, it's getting more people involved than ever before.

[@ZackScriven]

compared to an i15 expansion or something though? that's what it should be pulling money from...

[@ZackScriven]

@@loganmillsap also this is a classic reason by analogy. From a first principles perspective, I’m not sure where money could be better spent other than on the RGP because of its immense tangible benefits.

[@ZakhadWOW]

dude waht are you smoking? You cant elevate trains in an areas with this insane and massively overdue seismic risk! Remember everything west of about 11th east is unconsolidated gravel lake bed, that liquifies. The 202 earthquake helped them realize just how massively boned we are given the dowanrd westward angle of the fault.

[@ThePlecoPal]

Bathrooms at antelope Island smell better than trax trains

[@coachanderson2704]

UTA is the biggest JOKE, They have no clue how to run a real transit system! When you have almost 3 Million on the Wasatch Front, UTA needs to do better!

[@MegaLokopo]

Stop calling the transit system here good, simply because it exists.

[@martibit]

in some video y'all can get too political Just remember Kameltoe Harris is bad but so is orange man. Do Research!!! Other than that y'all maintain a Top Tier Channel in my opinion

[@scpatl4now]

There is not even the slightest equivalence. Project 2025 which is the Republican wish list literally guts all of the federal funding for transit of any kind other than roads. Chapter 19..like you said...do research

[@jazzcatjohn]

as you get political...lol

[@DesertDwight]

Are you 10? Figures you’d result to insults