Make a Small Shop Kiln from a Freezer/Fridge

Having a kiln in a small shop is a true luxury. It gives you control, flexibility and saves both money and time. Plus, it doesn't cost much at all. See me build one for about $30 in material with tools you already have. Discussion on convection.
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[@t.skinner4644]

I started watching your videos about 2 hours ago and im still watching. You definitely have a talent for teaching. Thank you so much.

[@wortheffort]

Thanks

[@erinsmith7219]

Exciting information on making a DIY wood kiln! I am loving the series and the more I watch, the more interesting wood turning becomes and I find myself wanting to know more and more each time! Thaniks

[@wortheffort]

Thanks

[@DesignBuildExecute]

Very cool! I'm looking forward to seeing how well this design works out for you.

[@hawk270leadflinger9]

I love this idea. I’m gonna start looking for an old freezer and build one. Thank you so much.

[@s14slide]

Would be awesome to see quarterly updates.

[@mikegarland4500]

Recently started (actually got back into, after a long break from) woodworking and I am disgusted by how much STUFF I have thrown away over the past say 20 years or so, that would be PERFECT for woodworking projects like this. I wish I had it all back now. Hindsight being 20/20 and all. Thanks for sharing your ideas with the rest of the world!

[@wortheffort]

Ya, looking back at all the stuff you buy and later throw away is disheartening. Realizing how much of your career work is rotting in a dump?

[@sandiekelley8513]

Cool idea. Don't forget to stager stack the pieces so you have even air flow on all parts of the wood on those shelves. Also if that PVC gets hot, would it give off toxic gasses? Also might want to have screens on those inflow and outflows to keep bugs out in the low temp' or off times.

[@keithvannote729]

I would suggest putting an elbow on the outlet vent and take the pvc pipe down the door a foot or so. This would allow the humidity to circulate and exit slowly.

[@suecottle8434]

It's always worth the effort! I love your videos. Every time I wonder, "How do I do that ..." you've done an awesome video on that subject, with diagrams! Keep it up.

[@wortheffort]

Thanks

[@watcherdude1330]

Hey hi from 🇨🇦. So I just subscribed to your channel. I like your motto, it basically tells it all. Your up Beet energy is fun to watch. Thanks for the great idea and video.

[@wortheffort]

Thanks

[@pauldavis9693]

Great video!!! Thank you for giving me the insight I needed

[@darodes]

Learned a ton here man! Keep it up!

[@robertbetts101]

Great idea

[@jrundrundhovde6911]

Great video. Keep up the good work.

[@wortheffort]

Thanks

[@jeffreyw9903]

For about $10-12 you can get a combination thermometer and moisture meter wireless that will enable you to monitor the temp and humidity inside without even opening the door.

[@el1061]

Grreeat idea !!!!! Thanx

[@dannyboy9784]

Nice video, thinking of making one...how has it turned out for you...any new tips and improvements? thanks.

[@DavesShed]

It's a great idea if you can find a large enough freezer body. In Australia the incandescent light bulb is extinct. I did a little research and it is possible to buy infrared bulbs but you would want to control it with a thermostat here due to the fire risk.

[@live2ride883]

I'm pretty sure this video has been up for awhile, but I still wanted to make a suggestion. In the back where the power cord goes in. I would have used an automotive grommet from someplace like AutoZone to keep the cord from catching on the couch edges of the hole.

[@wortheffort]

Good idea

[@live2ride883]

@@wortheffort I'm going to to start looking for a fridge in my area to make on. I have watched quite a few video's on how to do this but none of them went into the details like yours did on air circulation, ventilation.

[@samuelroberts334]

Pretty cool

[@imortaldeadead]

WoW that's a lot easier to make then I thought, thank you for showing us all how to make this little helper 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Ps; do you have the space where you could put more freezers? And have them all set up with different set ups for drying your wood is stages?

[@brplatten1273]

Amen I need account I have a lot of small boards that could use some drying my goal start looking for a freezer

[@janal4858]

Do you have any video of the freezer kiln with the wood inside and results with how it has worked

[@ronkenney2929]

You need links in your description! Thanks for the video!

[@wortheffort]

Thanks, added now.

[@jbcardin]

Just found your channel. Great content! Learning a lot! Watching a few vids every night. We all know what happens when metal touches wood for a short time. If you roughed out a bowl blank 90% of the way down then placed it on the metal wires for a few months could the blue travel far enough in the wood to cause a problem? Or would you place the blanks on small strips? Thanks for taking the time to make these vids and putting them up. I'm a beginning turner and love your channel. Thanks again! Ben. .

[@wortheffort]

That reaction only happens in woods with tannin such as white oak, cherry, walnut.... it's the iron that's doing the reaction. Don't think you'll see anything placing stuff on fridge wire to dry.

[@franka5416]

Shawn, I searched through your channel to see if there were any updates on the kiln project. If there are no updates, would you consider providing one. If there is a later video, would you provide a link to it (them). It'd be interesting to know: how well overall the kiln dried the wood;; what sizes/species of wood you dried; how long it took to acquire the desired moisture content;, did you open up the size of the air exhaust hole; did the progression of lamps from 40 to 60 to 100 watt lamps work out; and finally did you have any moisture buildup issues in the kiln? Any other tips you might have would be appreciated. Thanks, always enjoy the content.

[@sirtblairjr]

Hey there🕶️, I really like you channel very educational. Question: can you use a dehumidifier to do the same thing in the drying process? My name is Tony Blair Jr,live in Cleveland Tenn. I'm just starting out in the woodworking? By making canes walking sticks in smallwood items? That's my goal anyway because I'm on disability so I'm limited. I don't have a lathe or a chain saw ,so I do a lot by hand. what do you recommend greenwood or wood that has fallen tree limbs? Hit me up Thank you for time Keep up the good work and videos.

[@dadofpetie]

Hey Shawn, Great idea! I am making a smaller version of this (using 2 two drawer filing cabinets) What sized holes for intake and exhaust would you recommend? Thanks. Jim

[@wortheffort]

Start small then go bigger if needed.

[@stephaniephillips5945]

How is the progress going with your first drying session? I'm excited to see an update.

[@wortheffort]

I actually haven't run a full load yet. Fall is all about completing projects for the holiday season. Winter, Spring, and Summer are my processing months.

[@tjl6974]

Thanks. Good video.

[@wortheffort]

Thanks

[@michealg1487]

Looking to start making one myself and like your design. Have you tested it fully yet? I won't be making as much as you so even a little test would help a lot.

[@wortheffort]

It works, dunno what else to say.

[@TonatiuhMellado]

Gran idea, y resulta que tengo 3 refrigeradores de 27 pies que preparaba para el basurero

[@peterleffler2062]

I agree, it would be great to know how it's working in practice. What wattage bulb are you using? Did you need more ventilation? Does your timber come out useable? Ant problems? And so on...

[@wortheffort]

I'll do something this week or next.

[@peterleffler2062]

wortheffort - thank you! You know it'll be worth the effort!? 😂 sorry, couldn't resist.

[@olawiig-hanssen3317]

Just saw the kiln building video. Could you make a follow up. How do you see things now that you had it for a while. Does it work as you hoped?

[@wortheffort]

It dries the wood. Can't ask for more.

[@AffordBindEquipment]

for all you who have done lots of log turning, I received a lot of very wet logs and have no idea what they are. It has really rough bark and just under the bark it is intensely pink. It smells bad, too. the sap wood and heart wood don't have that much difference in color, a light creamy beige color. I have no idea what it is but it has some beautiful spalting that I hope will not bleed into the rest of the wood (the exposed part is already doing just that). I'm in Calif. Thanks!

[@matandersonmusic]

The heartwood of boxelder (a form of maple) will have a pink hue

[@ukguitaryogi2888]

hi thats a great video... I am looking to make a small mini freezer kiln to dry guitar body slabs and kill all the bugs they can be like 2 1/8 inch thick boards.... I air dry them outside first down to like 18percent moisture .. then I am looking to either put them in a oven to bake them to kill all bugs or to put inside a kiln like this. How effecttive are these freezer light bulb kilns at reaching the wood over 65 celcius to kill all bugs? thanks

[@lylebrown6132]

I just started watching your videos and have learned a lot. Will keep watching in the future. There seems to be an issue with your links. To your store it says it cannot be found. To bad wanted to see more of your finished work.

[@wortheffort]

Thanks. Try clearing your cache.

[@everyday80sdude86]

What about no vent holes and use a small fan on low for air circulation? Maybe one hole and the small fan? Would a heat bulb on a thermostat work or use a regular incandescent light bulb? Great video! Thanks

[@wortheffort]

No ventilation would likely lead to mold and am told a fan would create to much wind which can cause surface checks. I did use an incandescent bulb.

[@jaybird8621]

great videos. New subscriber here. Can you advise about how long it takes to dry out a typical bowl blank? like maybe a 10x10x3 block of fresh cut wood?

[@wortheffort]

You need to rough it out. I have a video on Roughing Bowl Blanks. If you don't rough it out the rule is 1.5 years for first inch then 1 year for every subsequent inch so 3" is 3.5 yrs. Rough it out and you're good to go in a few months.

[@nlstockstill]

Any idea on the temperature it reaches? Thanks for the idea and sharing

[@wortheffort]

140 +/-

[@dkheaton]

Great video. So now that you have had this kiln for a bit would you change anything or is it working like you thought it would?

[@wortheffort]

started with the 100w bulb first. That doesn't quite get it to 140 but it's close.

[@dkheaton]

wortheffort thanks for the info. I really enjoy your Channel.

[@AndyMorrisArt]

you're a freakin' genius!

[@wortheffort]

I know it. :)

[@williamhussla4715]

Did you consider using a dimmer switch to control the tempature.

[@jpccola]

You could try to source one of your "dream" boxes by contacting a local Coke distributor's service department. They typically scrap many old double or triple doors each year, which is a big expense to the company. You would only be looking for a carcass, no refer parts and may have a choice between a swing door or a slide door model. Be aware that moving those boxes can be a bear, so bring a moving dolly and plenty of help. Good stuff, best of luck

[@wortheffort]

Good idea.

[@zomgstuffnet]

How long does it take for you to dry green wood with the kiln?

[@hansdegroot8549]

Great video. Thank you so much for sharing. We are now more than a year later. Can you tell us something about if it works according your expectancy? How much Kwh did you use for drying one content of the freezer/refrigerator?

[@wortheffort]

Wood comes out dry. Can't expect much more at this price point. As for Kwh... expecting a bit much from a KZbinr there.

[@hansdegroot8549]

@@wortheffort I did some calculations: 40 W bulb consumes 1 Kwh a day, which is 21 Kwh per 3 weeks 60 W 30 Kwh 75 W 42 Kwh 100 W 55 Kwh Together maximum appr 150 Kw for twelve weeks if the light is on 24 hours a day, so 100% of the time. But I really have no idea, if the light is on 100% of the time. It could be also 80% or 60% or even as low as 40% or 20%. If you put a measuring device between the outlet and the extension cord you can read out the real consume of Kwh (which might vary, in summer less than in winter, because of the temperature of the environment)

[@fckmunch]

@@hansdegroot8549 very good post, cheers. I tried a food dehydrator, 3 rough turned bowls for 4 hrs at 35 deg celc, it halfed the moisture levels from 35 to 15. Two bowls were great, other one had a small crack, but used roughly 8kwh. This is a powerfull one though at 1000w so a smaller one would be way better even if it took longer. I can fit 4 or 5 bowls in there. Did you make a kiln yourself and how did it go?

[@atteljas]

If youd want to dry longer lumber than lenght of the shelf could take shelfes out and dry lumber vertical or should the whole fridge be flipped sideways? Or would it ve easier just build something bigger outside?

[@wortheffort]

Freezers usually have the shelving as part of coil.

[@Flazhness]

5:24 - Refrigierrrr? Sorry, it just cracked me up a little :D Still, nice video and I think I might be doing a build like this for myself :P

[@wortheffort]

W. TX born and raised...

[@richardhoffman9729]

You can use the condenser pump from the fridge as a vacume pump, and have a vacume klin

[@wortheffort]

Thanks, but then I'd never get the fridge open.

[@richardhoffman9729]

there must be an OFF switch somewhere, yes?

[@VencelBiro]

Enjoyable video, thank you. Why would you use a normal lamp instead of infra lamp or some specialized heater?

[@wortheffort]

+Vencel Biro money and durability.

[@bushwacker49]

Is there any reason a hole in the top rather than at the top but on the side of the refrig would be a problem?

[@wortheffort]

Not that I can see. It's just with the very top open I have another storage spot.

[@scotthaun8582]

How is this working for you? Would a little fan in there be helpful or would it cause the drying to happen too quickly?

[@wortheffort]

it's ok, gets the job done.

[@rodneywalker9113]

I'm loving your videos. I've watched a few now. It's over a year later, how has this kiln worked for you?

[@wortheffort]

Wood comes out dry.

[@rodneywalker9113]

Thank you!

[@Creator_Nater]

wortheffort That's what SHE SAID!! 😂😂😂

[@paulnewton5171]

Love the video. Best one I've seen on this subject. You might want to mention the safe removal of the Freon before you start drilling through the casing. It's illegal to vent this into the air.

[@rossbrockett694]

loved your video! When not if i make my kiln i just wanted to know if i could use an LED light bulb

[@wortheffort]

No, it’s the heat not the light you want.

[@rossbrockett694]

Much appreciated on the quick response, if i would have read a little further down in the comments first i would have seen that. Let me ask you this why the fridge is it because it can hold the heat because it's insulated, why not just a huge box made of plywood?

[@hansdegroot8549]

@@rossbrockett694 If you have free plywood and free insulation material it is still the same price as a free refrigerator. A died refrigerator cannot be used for many things. With some square metres of free plywood you can do many other things.

[@rossbrockett694]

Hans de Groot, ty

[@1BlackSheep]

Do you or what do you think about sealing the end grain to slow the process a little and reduce splitting and if you do not seal how much splitting do you get? And if you were to seal could you or should you use a little higher wattage bulb to start with? Or what about just sealing the heart wood not all of the end? At the end you said you want 125 degrees for a while what temp do you start at and how much are you trying to ramp up each wattage change on your way to 125. Man I got so many questions I could go on and on. I've always just air dried or got dried wood.

[@wortheffort]

see video I did on drying free wood.

[@1BlackSheep]

@@wortheffort Thank you I will check it out

[@artursvodnevs8086]

Hi Shawn! Are you satisfied with what you got? Thinking of making one.

[@wortheffort]

Wood comes out dry. Can't ask for more.

[@judycharvey5790]

How did this work out for you? I'm in the process of building one just like it lol.

[@wortheffort]

Wood comes out dry, can't ask for more.

[@martinkolczyk1822]

What about the water coming out of the wood? Is there drain and pan below? What about smell, growing fungus and such?

[@wortheffort]

It'll evaporate. That's why the wood feels cool.

[@ericjohnson2543]

Been a subscriber for a while now. Just aquirred a freezer to make a dryer and sterilization chamber. My question is, what size heat bulbs will I need to reach the proper sterilization temperature? (133-150 degrees for 12-24 hours). Any help on this would be great. Thanks.

[@wortheffort]

Get a variety and warm it up slowly with each batch.

[@erikolsen589]

@@wortheffort How long is slowly? I see u started with a 40w, so how often do u increase it and by how much wattage each time? Btw I am a new wood turner and u are the best teacher I have found yet. I would love to have a one day crash course with you in person or even just a few hours 1on1. I'm in Oklahoma so close yet so far. Thank you for what you do.

[@patwalker6898]

Could you give some close ups of where the PVC goes in the side? Also, did you put caulk around the PVC pipe? Enjoying the videos.

[@patwalker6898]

O, thank you and please.

[@wortheffort]

@@patwalker6898 I gave it away in last shop move.

[@patwalker6898]

@@wortheffort well there is that.......

[@bobdesgrange1685]

You made that 5 years ago. Is there some you would have done different. I just got a freezer yesterday think the same thing you did. Do you use a drip pan to catch moisture. Thanks I liked watching your videos.

[@thtphatcat23]

I'm just beginning with turning and just discovered that some small (4x3) blanks I bought are relatively green and need to be dried. They arrived coated in wax. Black walnut, Black Cherry, Red Cedar, Spalted Maple. Do I need to remove the wax coating immediately and put them in paper bags or something? Not sure what to do. Not quite ready to build your kiln, I think. :P

[@wortheffort]

No, leave the wax. Just set them on the shelf. General thinking is 1 year per inch. A kiln will speed it up but sometimes changes the property of the wood (makes it crunchy). Just takes time. You can rough out something like a box and it'll speed up drying because less wood but I feel it's best just to let it rest.

[@thtphatcat23]

Alrighty, thanks for the timely response! Love your videos! :D

[@louisjcharlett683]

I like simple.

[@pleappleappleap]

ALWAYS use a side-handle with a hole saw.

[@JI-ev9pp]

Have you considered a solar kiln, or would that dry the wood too quickly?

[@wortheffort]

Maybe someday when I have land. I'm just in a warehouse now.

[@cokemillion]

Does the warehouse have roof access 😂

[@timmills3823]

awesome idea! for the "less intelligent" folks out there LED bulbs will not work, you need incandescent light bulbs for the heat.

[@wortheffort]

good point.

[@schechter01]

I didn't know anyone still made incandescents anymore. LEDs are way more common; they use much less energy for the same amount of light.

[@rossbrockett694]

Sh...t i guess i should have read all the comments before making my own '

[@hansdegroot8549]

@@schechter01 The latter is true. Only the light bulbs for this kiln are not used for the light but for the warmth it produces! Getting classic light bulbs is getting more and more difficult. In Europe it's more or less forbidden to sell them.

[@68HC060]

The effect is measured in wattage, which is the "amount" of heat produced. If you need to control the heat by turning bulbs on/off, you could have one of each of the following bulbs: 10W, 20W, 40W, 80W. This will give you a range from 10W to 150W with 10W increments. Eg. if you want 110 Watt, you turn on 80W+20W+10W. If, on the other hand, you want to use a microcontroller (or a Raspberry Pi), then you can make this microcontroller measure the temperature using a cheap NTC and a few MOSFET transistors. The MOSFET itself will also dissipate heat, so to save on your electricity bill, you can put it inside the kiln along with the microcontroller and transformer. Regulating the temperature with all these heat-producing gadgets will be a little more difficult (because it takes a lot longer to remove the heat than to generate it), but it should be doable. I prefer working with a microcontroller (STM32F103) myself, but using the AVR (known from Arduino) would be much easier. You can use relays instead of MOSFETs, but you'll need to use a transistor to turn the relay on/off (eg. a BC547 or 2N3904 - they're very cheap, get a bag of 200 on eBay from China). You'll also need a diode for protection; a bag of 100 of these won't ruin your budget. The relays are expensive, though; here you'd only want to purchase 5 (maybe a few more if you want spares or later expansion). Many relays allow you to use up to 250 Volts at 10A. That's 2500 Watts, so that'd be way more than needed. On the other hand, if you use MOSFETs, you can use a single 120Watt bulb and turn the bulb on/off quickly, in order to regulate the heat dissipation. Alternatively, you can use the MOSFET itself to regulate the temperature. In either case, you'll need to add a sufficiently big heatsink to the MOSFET (matchbox size ... 3 times matchbox size will do; you do not need a 5kg heatsink). Controlling a heating element is not really recommended in this setup. Bulbs are safer! A heat element has the potential of starting a fire - especially if there's an error in the program you're running on the microcontroller (it may seem to work fine, but software tend to play tricks now and then, and you can't see physically, that something is wrong). -For instance, the software that controls the MOSFET or relay could crash right after turning on the power to such a heat element, resulting in the heat-element never getting turned off. Since the heat element is close to wood ... I don't think I have to say anymore. ;) When working with this, I recommend low voltages where you can. 12V/24W bulbs exists, so you can run the entire fun on batteries and solar power - or use a power supply that is compliant with all the required regulations in your country (don't just buy a cheap chinese one, all the cheap ones are constructed incorrectly and thereby dangerous - there isn't really any exception to this rule: $2 and below means do not purchase, unfortunately that does not mean that a $10 PSU is safe). -It's much better and safer to go to a second-hand store and get a used PSU, they're $2 there as well, but they're compliant with the safety regulations. For PSUs: Purchase known brands, Artesyn, MeanWell, LiteOn, Sharp, Traco, etc... old PC-power supplies are fine too. As a general rule, if a product has a 'CE' marking on it AND it has a manufacturer name AND it has a model number printed onto it, it's usually fine. If it does not have a manufacturer name and model number, stay away from it. Also make sure that all your electrical connections are safe from short-circuiting. If you solder two wires together, make sure to cover the exposed copper by heatshrink (a good rule of thumb is to use 3 times the length of the exposed copper and centre the exposed copper under the heatshrink). Do not use 'electrical tape', it'll fall off after a while and isn't really good with heat. You can use screw terminals, as long as you check that each wire is thoroughly fastened. (You may already know all of the above, and it's far from complete, but I've just seen so much scary junk on KZbin, that I feel I must mention at least these basic safety issues - even some of the people showing how to "properly" do things, certainly do not do it properly).

[@AndyMorrisArt]

Dude! Put together some courses, and sell them on Udemy. I'll be you're first Fan!

[@wortheffort]

Most of those places take advantage of the creator. Sad as is KZbin still best if you are wanting this to be a side gig.

[@ripntearslayer9101]

Personally i wouldve taken the shelves out and turned it on its side for longer slabs

[@cokemillion]

Don't those freezers have an internal fan you could make use of? Just isolate it from the compressor, plug it in so only the fan runs.

[@wortheffort]

haven't thought of that. Mine doesn't though.

[@merk1047]

Not sure if this would work or not, but could you just install a 100w bulb and wire in a dimmer switch, rather than having to change the bulb every few weeks?

[@wortheffort]

Hrmmm... might be worth a try.

[@northwoodsworks4249]

I’m building one similar to this and found a WiFi dimmer and WiFi hydrometer/thermometer combo so I can change the temp from my phone

[@hansdegroot8549]

@@northwoodsworks4249 Could you please provide more information on that?

[@CarstenDittrich2014]

Would be awesome with a follow-up by now :-)

[@wortheffort]

Wood comes out dry, not much I can do with that. Can't expect more for what I spent on it.

[@kristopherdb]

could I use a small mini fridge? I dont have much room

[@wortheffort]

You could or just build a box and line it with insulation.

[@pberggre]

do you make good money? I'm trying to get into it. and i wanna know if its really worth the effort monetarily.

[@wortheffort]

It's just alike any other business. Reward is reflective of risk. This is a low investment kind of operation respectively.

[@68HC060]

It's always worth the effort! =) ... If you live next to a highway, sell hamburgers and coffee! ... If you live in the woods and lumber is free, become a carpenter, but remember to tap into the streams where you can sell!

[@bespurcell]

How do you know when to up the heat?

[@hansdegroot8549]

Good question, which was not mentioned anything about in the video. You could use a thermostat connect to the light bulb. We used to have 500W mini heaters to keep some places frost free. At a certain moment they broke. One of them I took apart and it turned out that the electric spiral was spoiled. But the thermostat still worked because it clicked when I was turning the wheel. Just for fun I connect a fitting for a light bulb for it. When I put the thermostat higher than the temperature of the environment the light bulb switches on. At that time I had no practical use for it. I did it just for fun to try out if it would work. And it did. Now I can see use for it. But, that thermostat goes only to 25 or 30 degrees Celsius, which is pSrobably much lower than the Fahrenheit temperatures which were mentioned in the video. That means that a thermostat with a higher range is necessary,

[@wortheffort]

I guesstimate and just increase wattage every few weeks until I reach 100w. This is a very basic kiln.

[@stephenjimenez9539]

How's it working? Made anything from your kiln yet?

[@wortheffort]

I made it at the end of the year which is finishing time for me. Just started processing bowls for the next holiday season so we'll find out in a month or so on this first batch of a hundred or so bowls.

[@chucktodd60]

Could this work with firewood?

[@wortheffort]

seems overkill for firewood.

[@chucktodd60]

wortheffort Possible, but a large chest freezer ( free ) then a tube heater and fan, both just a few bucks, and very low running costs is worth a try 😀

[@hansdegroot8549]

@@chucktodd60 They way wortheffort works nearly no wood is firewood.

[@witnwi]

Any updates on this??

[@wortheffort]

G Hol it works. See earlier comments.

[@niklar55]

Ever heard of freeze dried food? Have you thought of trying to freeze dry wood?

[@wortheffort]

Doesn't sound cheap and freezing makes the water take longer to leave.

[@niklar55]

@@wortheffort Thanks for your response. I have a bit of spare room in my freezer, so I'll try it and see the result.

[@codytravis5006]

Was gonna buy a hat until I noticed the price on them. After shipping 30 bucks for a simple hat is just way out of my budget. :/

[@wortheffort]

They're nice hats that'll last. Didn't want to put name on cheap ones. It's a make on demand company so I don't have to buy 100's ahead of time. Each one makes the channel about $5. Not trying to gouge people, just nature of running on little cash flow.

[@Domenic-th9tw]

Hope those aren’t led lights

[@wilbertolugo8700]

hey I send you email about your t shirts fading ink. you have not responded????????? cheap ink not very happy to say the least.