Make That Gary Numan Synth Sound

[@RPLKTR]

Hey people, if you liked this video you should check out Starsky's hidden gem: in his video "Nothing but LOVE for the Junos" there's a section called "12 patches in 4 minutes" where Starsky effortlessly goes through the staple sound patches while explaining what's going on, and then plays a song with those patches. It's great! Starsky, thanks for this video. You're the man.

[@StarskyCarr]

Thanks… you’ve given me an idea! I might pull that out as a separate video. Quite a few people commented on it and how I should do more like that… and again after this I’m getting similar requests. 👍

[@StarskyCarr]

I've remade that section here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/apaueXSApLanrqMsi=xB81KvWCiKd2NzFm ...and this is all thanks to you - so cheers!

[@JohannesNielsen]

@@StarskyCarr What Arturia's were you using in that clip?

[@JohannesNielsen]

@@StarskyCarr Now how can I do the same in Abelton?

[@StarskyCarr]

@@JohannesNielsenit’s a Juno 6

[@amphora8321]

Hope Starsky does more of these ‘how to’ vids. He chose the greatest ‘synth capturing a zeitgeist’ moment in pop !

[@StarskyCarr]

Happy to look at more if I get some decent ideas for tones :)

[@Mind-your-own-beeswax]

Sounds as near as damn it mate. Was lucky enough to to play the real thing many years ago and still to this day that sound gives me chills.

[@GNeuman]

Gary actually signed my vintage MXR Phase 100 at a Meet N Greet in St. Gallen 10 years ago, he said, "Oh, that's the pedal that did the wobbly bit on Cars!" 😂😂😂He has a great sense of humour. Huge Numan fan, Matt Jessup actually sent a load of patches for a Virus TI that he made which are very close to many of Numan's classic sounds which apparently he used, maybe still uses to this day on stage.

[@annother3350]

sweet!

[@timdanyo898]

That iconic synth patch probably hooked everyone here on electronic music as kids.

[@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx]

For me it was on 'Are 'Friends' Electric?', a sound that even Numan has never got again live. Was it several tracks of Minimoog? Not sure.

[@hdsubstance1]

I love the way synth content interleaves between good creators like Sir Ball and you, also enjoyed some good talk about this preset with the mighty Pro Synth Network seniors. Well done recreations.

[@StarskyCarr]

Cheers. We should do more with each other really. We tend to know a lot of other 'creators' as we move in similar circles and know the same people.. we've just got to get our acts together to do 'colabs'! .. or maybe thats too far down the 'creator' rabbit hole?

[@hdsubstance1]

@@StarskyCarr definitely we are all a community. And content like this enhances the concept properly

[@annother3350]

@@StarskyCarr Lifes too short not to

[@TheUKMikey]

Thanks for the lear and concise tutorial. I've just come from the Alex video so I'm glad you're into his channel too. Essential viewing for any synth head.

[@e-conrecords4665]

I originally bought my MS2000 based on how closely I was able to emulate the Numan Polymoog sound when I tested it in store. It did a very nice job of things.

[@aangtonio5570]

How were you able to get that sound from just 2 LFOs and 1 "PWM-able" oscillator? I have a microKORG (which uses the same engine) and I'm struggling to achieve that glorious sound. I know there's a patch called "PWM strings" which sounds close, but I can't get it to sound spot-on.

[@jae6220]

@@aangtonio5570I was gonna say that. Can the microkorg emulate this?

[@waxwaine]

@@jae6220 We, the poor Microkorg´s owners

[@entropybentwhistle]

Alex’ Nary Guman vid was a good caffeine jolt to the synth channels neighbourhood on U-Toob, so I really enjoyed your followup with a how-to, and with a synth I still haven’t figured out 5% of yet. The 3rd Wave is a tough slog for someone like me but was too awesome sounding to pass up, so I deeply appreciate any programming hints I come across. Many thanks.

[@StarskyCarr]

I’m putting together a full 3rd wave demo/review so let me know if there’s anything you’d like to see.

[@scott21113]

So timely! I just got a Korg Kross 2 and wanted to recreate this on my new synth so I could learn my way around it. This is a great patch to learn from since the sound is so iconic and you know when you've nailed it properly.

[@StarskyCarr]

Nice one.. have fun!

[@_fig.8]

the way these sounds effect my brain! yum. thanks for following up on alex’s video.

[@deantiquisetnovis]

You are in fact right. I‘ve been checking the schematics. It indeed had three LFOs of which two were accessible through the front panel: LFO 1 FM Osc 1, LFO 2 FM Osc 2 and LFO 2 PWM.

[@MartinKatscan]

Excellent! Please do more of these ‘get that sound’ type vids. Very cool!

[@StarskyCarr]

Ideas for tones welcomed! :)

[@MartinKatscan]

@@StarskyCarr Purely selfishly, I'm a big Old School EBM fan, so it's all about the bass sounds. Anything Nitzer Ebb or maybe some of the digital sounds of Front 242 back in the day (Headhunter, Tragedy For You), but i guess those have very limited, niche appeal, so maybe a '10 famous bass sounds' type vid with stuff like the hoover bass from 'i like to move it', 'Lately Bass', Kraftwerk 'The Robots' etc. Obviously Depeche and Kraftwerk would be a rich veins to mine. Oh lead sound from 'Poison' by The Prodigy would be great. Actually an 'x amount of famous 'acid and rave era' sounds' would probably be a hit.

[@ovestegan]

Thank you. Very nice of you to share this

[@AlexBallMusic]

👀

[@StarskyCarr]

👁️👁️

[@labouch]

👀

[@whereshadowsshrink1046]

So glad Starsky mentioned Alex here. I'm an expat Brit hailing from Bristol and living in Sydney for the last 15 years. I have a synth covers band here (@Voxneon) and started my journey into music and all things synth when I heard Are Friends Electric on Radio 1 in 1979. I follow a lot of synth stuff on KZbin and elsewhere and I have to say, you 2 guys are, hands down, the absolute best when it comes to no-nonsense, unbiased and inofrmative videos. I bought my Novation Summit after seeing Alex' feature on current poly synths. Just brilliant. Keep doing what you're doing...

[@1sostatic]

Nice vid Starsky Carr .... Great that you guys keep the old anologue going and show how to do with newer.. one can also gain same synth sound on old Korg Trident, Monopoly and Polysix (parts of my antique collection of cheap shite) ... there are many ways ... or get a Korg T2ex which combines all three, and through the wave-tables... same again.

[@MrCoov]

Love that song!! ...and love this patch on the 3rd Wave! Thanks Starsky.

[@johnghadimi]

Since I didn't have a swanky hardware poly with 3 LFOs, I managed to create this in Arturia's Jupiter 8 VST, that pleasantly provides you with two extra LFOs to support the creation of this awesome sound. :)

[@Geddyfleaharris]

Nice and timely. Numan was just in Winnipeg, MB, Canada with Ministry a week ago. I was away so couldn't attend. But it just happened to be his birthday, either his 65th or 66th. I saw both ages quoted. Ministry came out and sang happy birthday to him. A friend of mine who went said Cars was the only classic Numan song he performed. Everything else was stuff he co-wrote with Trent Reznor. More industrial stuff.

[@walrtbstudios5430]

66th. He’s just a few weeks older than me; we exchanged greetings on our 65ths last year (“it used to mean something”…)

[@StarskyCarr]

At least he performed cars!

[@Geddyfleaharris]

@walrtbstudios5430 that's what I thought but then I saw someone else say 65. Guess I could have Googled it. Lol

[@SoundWaveSea]

Nice! Great tutorial for THE classic sound!

[@CSGraves]

I recall that there was a passable facsimile of Vox Humana in the Ensoniq Synth-Thesaurus disk for their TS line, but because the TS didn't have PWM, they were able to approximate the effect with multiple sawtooth waves instead.

[@StarskyCarr]

yeah some detuned saws can give a similar effect. PWM is almost a way to make a single oscillator sound like a few detuned.

[@SuperGinkgo]

Fantastic as always Starsky, ta m8 😊🖖

[@StarskyCarr]

Cheers glad you liked it

[@chriswareham]

I should post a video of my Ensoniq ESQ-1 recreation of the Vox Humana sound. The ESQ is blessed with three LFOs, but doesn't have PWM. Fortunately it does have three oscillators and a way of combining two of them to get a PWM sound-a-like.

[@Vim-Wolf]

Thanks for that, I had a feeling it might be something to do with Alex's video :) Was trying to work out how to afford a polymoog.

[@StarskyCarr]

Haha... cheapest way is to pretend what you have is a Polymoog. I was offered one not that long ago, but the tech I use wouldn't go near it - he'd had a previous disaster with one.

[@RaquelFoster]

The big screen on the not-PPG is really helpful in this kind of video! It's just crazy that they're charging a LOT more than a Nord Wave for that thing, though.

[@StarskyCarr]

This is a wonderful synth. I think the Nord is all digital? This has 24 voices (you can have 4 parts each with 6 voices), and each of those has 2 analog filters - the low pass and a SEM style BP/HP/LP/notch. So there are 48 in total on board as far as I can gather, which I guess all adds up.

[@wonderwheel80s]

@@StarskyCarr Now it definitely makes more sense, I also wondered why on earth that's so expensive.. ...thanks!

[@Dr.TeaseMedia]

Very nice analysis and instruction.

[@SergioFrias]

cherry audio's Polymode is amazing as well

[@violentene]

Such a great and iconic sound!! ❤

[@osirismaximus2787]

Very nice! Always love seeing the great 3rd Wave. I still cant decied if i want the desktop or full keys version.

[@StarskyCarr]

I doing find the desktop is lacking in knobs (one set rather than 3 for the oscillators etc) its a very intuitive interface... the only thing I would prefer is the larger buttons - but obvs its got limited space. I think I'd prefer the keyboard overall, but then I quite like not having to pay the additional £1500, and I've got enough keyboards lying around anyway!

[@AudioLomtik]

Love my 3rd Wave desktop.... so versatile and a good choice for the vox humana patch with the LFOs and phaser built in. My Rev2 can do a nice vox humana as well.

[@nigeltedbury5805]

Great stuff! Even made it work with the Akai Force Tubesynth of all things!

[@StarskyCarr]

Haha.. I’ve just had to look that up!

[@0richbike]

Nice. Hacked something up on the blofeld. A bit of HP filter helped. More of these inspiration tutorials please!

[@leftmono1016]

The Blofeld is criminally underrated!

[@StarskyCarr]

Yeah, the Blofeld has so much going on. Did you catch my videos on the Blofeld? kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnu6e4Kmjpp-aqs I made some comparing it with the M as well

[@tatoloperas.7748]

Thanks!

[@neurokinetik]

Thanks for this. Was able to easily recreate this in Arturia Pigments. It'd be just as easy to do in Vital as well.

[@helisoma]

i use the PolyM VST with added effects and it's really really close 😳...nice overview as it's actually not that easy to get exactly the same character 😎👍🏻

[@StarskyCarr]

Thanks :)

[@StarWarsJay]

I heard Gary Numan sent his instrument tracks through guitar effects pedals to achieve the band’s sound.

[@robvale1]

Supertramp ran their Wurlitzer through a Boss Disstortion Pedal (i think thats the one, sorry, a bit lazy), to give it that great live growl sound in concert

[@StarskyCarr]

That’s right. Lots did/do. And mic’d through the cabinets as well. You’ll never recreate the tones EXACTLY because of this but you’ll get close enough. I think Nick Rhodes from Duran Duran also mic’d his keys.

[@StarWarsJay]

@@StarskyCarr I can imagine their studios being right untidy with all those pedals laying around.

[@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx]

@@StarskyCarr Billy Currie of Ultravox ran his ARP Odyssey lead sound through guitar FX and a cab for that unique sound he used with Numan ('On Broadway' live though I think that was DI'd) and Visage as well.

[@jay4d3v4]

needing 2 oscillators and at least 3 LFOs to build this sound is literally the reason why i bought my Prophet Rev2! it works a treat, i highly recommend that anyone with a Rev2 give this sound a go.

[@StarskyCarr]

haha... I was thinking Rev2 and Pro-08 as I was doing this. I miss my Pro-08 - it was the first 'new' analog poly I bought after trying to go in the box for a while.

[@performtransform]

I love my REV.2...so versatile for the money!

[@theaudioeng]

😎👍 ..... off to see Numan again at Roundhouse May on his 45th anniversary Pleasure Principle ... Nuuuuumaan 😂✨️💥🎹🍻

[@terrymacklin5935]

Wonderful Gonna give it a go with The Access Virus Ti

[@StarskyCarr]

And you’ll get very close with that. Shame it’s not got and slop settings though.

[@PrAnG2000]

Not bad mate. Sounds wicked.

[@BassFunMusic]

Awesome video ☺♥♥ sounds ♪♪♥ love

[@lundsweden]

1:30 Stand clear, doors closing!

[@StarskyCarr]

Haha that’s hilarious. It’s exactly the sound! 😂😂🚇🛤️🚉

[@chrs1968]

Fucking amazing! Keep em coming mate 🙂

[@johnkowall7558]

Hi new to the channel .. are vintage polymoogs very expensive to buy and find .. I have a few synthesizer’s a late 70’s mini Moog and a Roland .. thanks for the help .. trying to get those Gary Numan sounds 👍

[@FLH3official]

"Carr" by Gary Numan or "Gary Numan" by Carr? 😁

[@StarskyCarr]

😂😂

[@fjfrancois]

Lol good one 😂

[@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx]

'Popcorn' by Hot Butter or 'Hot Butter' by Popcorn is an earlier dilemma of electro-pop.

[@DemoniacYouth]

Good job!

[@moritz_schoenermann]

@StarskyCarr do the values of these parameters in this patch all between 0 and 100? I am thinking how to transpose those values in other machines that have 63/64 or 128 different value levels. :)

[@StarskyCarr]

These are 0-127 - but I'm not sure just halving will work - things like LFO rate you'll definitely have to set by ear. At least these give an idea of the scale (eg small changes to tuning but with a quickish LFO)

[@gazfunk]

Cool, I don’t need to buy that sample pack now. lol

[@Ashfaq1999]

Great video. I have the original PolyMoog keyboard & Mxr phase 100 pedal. This sounds close 😊

[@StarskyCarr]

Thanks, I wasn't expecting that! I was going for broad strokes so never thought it would get close - it was more abut these are the general principles behind the tone, so it's nice to hear it's not 100 miles away.

[@Ashfaq1999]

Thanks 🎶

[@JKC40]

considering most of the time he's playng it live now, the Vox Humana sound is coming off a Virus Ti2....

[@StarskyCarr]

Yeah that’s got all the bits you need. Love it. Not used mine in a while but it’s a gobsmackingly good piece of kit.

[@tjcarr70]

Funny thing I have been trying to use the free Synthesizer expander module from Cherry Audio (just getting into synths) to recreate all the Gary Numan sounds. Love the late 70's and upto mid 80's tracks. You must be related to the Warton Carr's :)

[@Maxzilla42]

excellent, thanks

[@lancecox8084]

Alex Ball's sample pack requires the full version of Kontakt, by the way.

[@StarskyCarr]

Yeah, it does come with the raw wavs as well so you can build your own in whatever you have.

[@scoimalloi3405]

Just bought that pack. Using Logic Pro sampler it is spot on. Closest to the real thing in my opinion!

[@lancecox8084]

@@StarskyCarrThanks for the info.

[@cthulholmhastur5317]

Great content! Wouldnt you soften up the VCA envelope just a little tho? ;)

[@StarskyCarr]

Yeah maybe. I’m just getting you in the ball park here. Specific settings will depend on different synths. So just giving general principles here. I could tweak it to death and it still would never be 100% polymoog 😀

[@cthulholmhastur5317]

@@StarskyCarr no doubt no doubt, brother. Thanks!

[@scottlarson1548]

My guess was that it was two oscillators with slightly different vibrato rates so I was sort of close.

[@rekindle]

Skills!

[@patcummins1405]

I do feel like maybe you saw my little video of my Moog Matriarch recreating on the Synthesizer Zone Facebook group and would like to think that maybe I had something to do with inspiring this video… even if it’s wishful thinking it’s nice to think I was a part of it 😅

[@StarskyCarr]

That’s quite possible. I did see something that gave me the impetus to have a go while I was programming VS sounds in the 3rd Wave. I tried to go back and find what it was to ref in the vid, but as ever Facebook has a way of hiding anything vaguely interesting. So yeah I think it was your matriarch post. I also seem to remember someone also posted something with a 3rd Wave in it on your thread as well?

[@patcummins1405]

@@StarskyCarr yes that was Andy Boucher - the guy who’s polymoog it is in Alex Ball’s video. Love your vids mate, I’m a fellow Merseyside synthhead 😎

[@JewelzFin]

Dammit, I went out and bought a Moog One and a Matriarch a few weeks ago.. There's a plugin???

[@StarskyCarr]

Polymode by Cherry Audio

[@jeffreymace6357]

The Novation Mininova emulates the Vox Humana sound beautifully. Check out the Numanova sound pack by Matt Jessup. Many many classic Numan sounds all meticulously programmed on the Mininova

[@andreweccles8130]

The cost is actually £13, and I’ve also found that the Symphonic setting on the Arp Oddessey ipad app is just as good if you have it ! 🤔😊🎹

[@mts982]

great song!!!!!

[@deantiquisetnovis]

I beg to differ. The Polymoog did not have three LFOs. Therefore two LFOs are enough to create the Vox Humana sound. Here‘s my take on it using Behringer UB-Xa: Vox Humana Sound on the Behringer UB-Xa synthesizer - Full Tutorial kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZorPhWZ9jdNnj6c See my correction in another reply here in the thread. The Polymoog had three LFOs of which two were accessible on the front panel

[@StarskyCarr]

You’re probably right. The polymoog had PWM rate and a single LFO… but someone once told me it had an additional LFO, maybe a mod or maybe a mistake. Most synths only have 1 or 2 anyway so I think folks will get close enough. Not as close as yours perhaps 👍😀

[@StarskyCarr]

Just an FYI. The guy who lent his polymoog to Alex for his video also uses 3 LFOs to recreate it on his 3rd Wave…. Something coming from the comments on this vid. So maybe I’m not imagining it.

[@moritz_schoenermann]

Beautiful! Is it possible to apply PWM in waves stored in a sampler? :)

[@StarskyCarr]

No. If you've a sampled pulse it will be a fixed width. You could have a sampled modulated tone, but unless it's been sampled on every key the LFO rate will change. I made a collection of PWM tones from the Analog Solutions COLOSSUS, and had to sample at each semitone.

[@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx]

@@StarskyCarr Yeah... I have a Yamaha MODX which will never get close enough because its AWM2 system uses sampled waveforms and there's no way to modulate the width.

[@billmcnelis5999]

I made a pretty decent version of the lead on Minilogue XD which only has one lfo. Gonna try it using this video on something with 2 or 3 lfo

[@StarskyCarr]

How did you get on?

[@gacekwilkooki]

"...on any synth" Pick one of the most expensive monsters. ;)

[@robinspiers8109]

there are a lot of videos on how to create this sound on Cars, but I've never seen any on how to create the other lead sound, that is hapening during the entire song, with the exception of each bridge. I think that sound is just as important. How is that sound created? I've tried to create it on a minimoog, and many other synths, but can't quite get the sound. Any thoughts on this? Just to clarify, I'm talking about the main riff throughout the song. D C# G A...A A, and so on...

[@StarskyCarr]

I think there’s a live bass playing along with it - which would make it difficult to recreate on a synth alone. Could be wrong though.

[@GNeuman]

​@@StarskyCarryes, there is. The whole Pleasure Principle album is very cleverly mixed. There's actually a ton of stuff going on with the recording of Cars. I believe he actually fed a Minimoog into a guitar cab cranked up to overdrive it to get that crunchy synth bass riff on the song. I think he got the idea from Ultravox when John Foxx was the front man as Billy Currie also did this.

[@StarskyCarr]

@@GNeumanthanks. Yeah the whole guitar cab thing is where any exacting recreation fails. Hence throwing by road ideas here. I remember trying to recreate a 303 tone years back - but without the same guitar cab and distortion there was no way to get it perfect. Routes to madness 😂

[@GNeuman]

@@StarskyCarr it does become an obsession, doesn't it? 😂🤣😂

[@lancecox8084]

Wish I could afford a 3rd Wave

[@rachelar]

The phaser makes a big difference, could you not use a pedal if using a more basic synth?

[@StarskyCarr]

Of course

[@LONEEAGLE_space_rock]

Great, can you get this sound /or load in onto Kori monologue or moog subphatty

[@StarskyCarr]

you can approximate it... doing the first few steps will get you close

[@PiesliceProductions]

I get a feeling that this patch is fun to recreate with Matriarch

[@TechGently]

/arrgh, I have 4 Osc’s but only 2 LFO’s on the Roland SH-4D. Well actually 3 Osc with 2 LFO’s as the 4th changes to a LFO in the 3D engine. Will try it anyway.

[@deanbr6ndo70]

Sorry starks but not even close.i commented on Alex's vid that it would be good to for him or somebody to go into depth on recreating this vox humana sound because to me it's the most gorgeous sound on any synth.i did a close job on system 8 in performance mode and also on the gaia.still like your vids though mate.

[@StarskyCarr]

Nah it’s well close enough 😂👍 all broad strokes here as it’s about how to get the sound from whatever synth you’ve got in front of you. Theres no point in getting the LFO rates spot on etc as every synth will have different settings. So I’m not going for the EXACT tone. Firstly it’s not a polymoog so will never be identical. Secondly there’s no point in getting it as close as I can in this, as people will always say it’s not the same (because it can never be) as you noticed. So I’m giving you the net … now go fish 🐠 🐡🐠

[@AiMR]

Is there a patch on Arturia that recreates it?

[@StarskyCarr]

No doubt but I don’t know off the top of my head.

[@herseem]

too much vibrato. Reduce the range of the LFOs

[@jae6220]

Here in my car I feel safe in my car…in my car.

[@Andronicus2007]

With the doors locked, mind you.

[@joebrown9586]

Can you do this on a roland jx3p 😊

[@Jobotubular]

1. Save up enough money for a 3rdWave 2. Buy a 3rd Wave 3. come back to this video (if youtube still exists)

[@StarskyCarr]

4. Or just follow the same steps in any synth.

[@Jobotubular]

@@StarskyCarr - indeed -- I'm thinking to try with a Sledge

[@DayoftheSynth-w5t]

Serious question - why would you need this sound? it's not 1979 and you're not Gary Numan.

[@StarskyCarr]

No one needs it. It’s a bit of fun. 🤩

[@RoyChartier]

Capitalizing on the Alex Ball gravitas.

[@StarskyCarr]

I know Alex, and checked he was Ok with this, and sent it to him before release. He told me it was sh!t and not to release it 😂😂 (joke btw).

[@leftmono1016]

@@StarskyCarr - 😂

[@entropybentwhistle]

⁠@@StarskyCarrBased on channel precedent, Alex would use the word scheiße.

[@RayyMusik]

I‘d like a tutorial on how to play parts “simulatneously“; never heard of this technique. 🤡

[@StarskyCarr]

Haha it’s what people used to do in the olden days 😂🎹🎹

[@GNeuman]

And here at 5mins 45 sec..anyone who went to Wembley 81 will recognise this kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGfCnXWigZerhJY

[@TadRapidly]

important> don't imitate Gary in any other way.

[@StarskyCarr]

Especially when flying light aircraft

[@IndigoBassNotes]

How to use $10,000 worth of synths to make a sound Gary Numan paid likely 200$ to get.

[@StarskyCarr]

Polymoog in 1979 in 2024 prices is over $22,000 - he used 2 so that’s more than $44,000. Follow these steps on something like the free TAL noi3emaker 🤷‍♂️ and…. you’re welcome 😂 btw the 3rd wave is $3.5k nice of you to pop by though 👍

[@CONSIDERABLYMORE1]

sorry pal, but sounds nothing like it

[@atiqjunglist]

Nice, but no where near the same sound

[@StarskyCarr]

I could've tweaked to get to closer, but it wouldn't stand for other synths anyway - so just ball park stuff.

[@odmusicman]

It is unrealistic to expect the same result when you do not have the same filters and circuitry. I thought he did an excellent very passable job and provided the template to get other people started on their own synths and do THEIR own tweaking.

[@leftmono1016]

Which just goes to show that there’s a tw4t in every comments section.

[@LuckyFlesh]

If you played this recreation without telling anyone what it was, EVERYONE would immediately know what it was. Pro tip: contrary to popular belief, an opinion actually can be wrong.

[@jimrockford2335]

He got us close and we do the fine tuning ourselves, I thought it was excellent.

[@casondave]

Hey pal, wtf would I watch this video, when I can go watch his ...... typical YT thief and exploiter .....

[@StarskyCarr]

Typical troll LMAO 🤣

[@PeresD]

Nice one !