Making 17th Century Stays Mock-up - Early Corsetry

Hello everyone! For this week's video, I am continuing where I left off in the "Scaling up a Pattern to Life-Size" video ( • Scaling up a Pattern t... ) and making a mock-up using the pattern I printed from Patterns of Fashion 5.
The pattern used in this video is from Patterns of Fashion 5, which is hella awesome, and you should buy a copy if you have any interest in pre-Victorian corsetry: shop.theschool...
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[@raraavis7782]

Oh my, that‘s ridiculously flattering on you! I‘m so jealous 😄

[@angelaferber6383]

And another example of why people follow your videos..... informative, adaptable, inspiring! Seriously, you do the community of interest a real service by so clearly demonstrating your process. Thank you!

[@MorganDonner]

I am so glad to hear that! I'll keep trying to do my best!

[@isabellescales3763]

I adore the mock up so much, it makes me want to incorporate stays into modern fashion

[@MorganDonner]

Hell yeah! There needs to be more corsetry in modern wear! That would be fantastic!

[@estelledesigns]

I would want to incorporate stays into modern fashion so I could have better posture! 😂

[@olwendavis327]

I wear my corset everyday almost with hardly a break my mum is relieved I'm no longer slouching

[@Kick0a0cat]

Honestly it's even prettier than most other corsets! I definitely will make one some day. Also that matching blouse and skirt - patterns please 🤗🥺?

[@AWindy94]

I wore a corset to school that I ahem borrowed from my school theater program while I was a cast member in our rendition of Les Miserables, I had so many questions in class even from my other cast members. They all thought I was crazy for thinking it was comfortable.

[@berkleypearl2363]

This looks so good! And the silhouette really suits you

[@MorganDonner]

Thank you Berkley!

[@albionwolfblaze2754]

First, I love how many historical sewing videos I've been running into recently! Second, seeing the amount of boning channels reminded me of an 1890's housemaid corset project I did in school. Mine was corded with minimal actual boning so maybe those are cord channels or thin reeds? It could explain the wrinkling.

[@SlenderverseTrash]

The three videos in this mini series of making Stays is going to help me soooooo much because I'm wanting a more historically accurate form of structure under one of my cosplays and it would be nice just to wear it occasionally. Thank you for making these videos, I'm going to follow them well lol. I've been following the channel for over a year now so I guess it's time. Plus it will cure the no school boredom. If you were curious, it's Twilight Princess Zelda from the games :) Yes creative liberties will be taken..

[@mousy3873]

The fit looks fabulous on you! You make the process look a lot less terrifying then I thought it would be so thank you for doing this series.

[@bhagirathigogi9879]

Wow mock-up looks beautiful

[@bertuccigirl]

They look awesome! Pretty darn pretty for a mock up! Can't wait to see more of these. I really want to make some of my own, but have ABSOLUTELY no reason to have them or anywhere to wear them. Maybe someday.

[@MorganDonner]

Ahh, this is often the nature of historical costuming....finding excuses to wear them! That's half the reason I started making videos!

[@olwendavis327]

I'm currently wearing a victorian style corset around my house for no other reason than that I feel like it I make no excuses I just go ahead and do it more fun that way. Try it and you won't regret it, have no reasons or regrets that makes less confusion and unnecessary complication in life:-).

[@theeveraftercrafter1271]

Who says you need a reason or an occasion?

[@EnchantedRoseCostumes]

Looking great Morgan! I am really excited for this project!

[@MorganDonner]

Yay, thank you! I am looking forward to working with the fancy fabric on the 'real' thing :D

[@eyesofmuffin]

I stood up and walked around my house because I was literally too excited to focus to watch this video so I had to burn off some off the excitement because I've been wanting to make similar stays but I haven't sewed since my early teens and am very new to historical garments and didn't have confidence in my ability to adapt a pattern. And then I found this video. *chef's kiss*

[@freyaegrey]

I'm watching this on the eve of my birthday so I'm pretending that you were saying happy birthday to me. :)

[@missiworld]

I still cannot believe how few subscribers you have when you consistently give us such quality.

[@MorganDonner]

It's no rush! All good things take time 😊

[@pay1370]

Oooh it's getting juicy! Wish i had this video before i started my stays. I made a mockup using regular old cardboard, who knows how my final fit is going to be 😂

[@estelledesigns]

That sounds like an interesting mockup! I just made my first pair of stays mockup using an old bed sheet! 😂Good luck with your project!

[@EmsIsFab]

I love the idea of expanding the pattern before printing! I'd have no idea how much to expand it though, haha!

[@Feliscout]

That's gorgeous and you make it look so easy!

[@MorganDonner]

Awww, thank you 😊

[@marinabenetti3533]

I had struggled to make my first corset... yes, I chose a 17th century corset to be my first one hahaha thanks for help. You are amazing!

[@olwendavis327]

At last it's coming along can't wait for the actual stays video. Now I shall have to binge watch until then:-)

[@MorganDonner]

Lol, I am a slow sloth at times. But I am working on things! :D

[@olwendavis327]

@@MorganDonner I wouldn't worry about taking time to make things they often come out better that way and as for sloth, snails have overtaken me 😂😂😂

[@AdirondackRuby]

Very cool. Love the spiral lacing. The color of the mock-up fabric is beautiful!

[@ladystitch-a-lot]

Beautiful, I cant wait to see the finished garment 😍

[@MorganDonner]

Me too! I do so love to look of a nicely fitted corset ❤️

[@ladystitch-a-lot]

@@MorganDonner I would love to make one one day😊

[@allis_o2628]

As I've started to get more and more eager to get into some historical fashion, videos like this is the best kind of encouragement ^^

[@bookchild7684]

Karolina Żebrowska brought me here. Like your channel😉

[@melissafaucheux6777]

I love all of your videos! One of my KZbin pleasures!

[@MorganDonner]

Awww, thank you Melissa!

[@Sharleenation]

Thank you sooooo much ! I'm currently making my first corset ever with a pattern of patterns of fashion 5 and it makes me less anxious about it.

[@LadyValkyri]

Gorgeous mock up! That color looks amazing on you!

[@thatsmalltowngirl4]

Love love LOVE!!!! Beautiful video, been waiting. I see a video. I click. You did such a nice job on these stays, mock up or no. ;)

[@MorganDonner]

Aww, thank you Vanessa! :D

[@georgiecastilla28]

Seriously, don’t you love the back of it? What a beautiful silhouette!

[@Amy-Lynn]

Looks fabulous!

[@estelledesigns]

They fit you really well! Your sizing up patterns method works a treat - I actually used it to scale up a stays pattern I found on the internet and get this.. I just uploaded my stays mockup video for my project too. What a coincidence!

[@MorganDonner]

I just watched it, you are off to a great start! I am so happy to see other people making historical stays! :D

[@estelledesigns]

@@MorganDonner Thank you! Yes, one day I want to try and make a pair of 17th or 18th century stays but I think for now I'll stick with the simpler patterns!

[@ingridwilske2657]

Consider sticking around for the final version ... honestly , this is my most thrilling sewing project in the moment ! Good luck !

[@vourdalak1]

OMG you are a genius!!! I always struggled with the measurements of the patrons!!! I only added like 2 inch every side and failed. Thank you!!!!

[@DuchessOfTators]

I cant wait for the final!!!!

[@vintagelife5195]

Good work.

[@OcarinaSapphr-]

So few people do 17th c, but it looks fabulous on you!

[@NoviceStitcher]

if you get some sand paper you can sand the edges of your boneing also there is tape or dip to make sure the boneing does not cut thru the fabric. love your video looking forward to seeing the full version

[@MorganDonner]

Definitely a good idea if you are making a corset/stays that you intend to wear more than once!

[@NoviceStitcher]

@@MorganDonner i was also thinking that the reason the boning lines is so close is that they were dealing with whale bone or reeds. i know that reeds and artificial whalebone come in slim sizes that might actually work with the original pattern what do you think? also i think i want to start my clothing journey sooner than later. if i sew piece by piece beginning with the chemise what do you think i would i be able to do it using only $25.00 per month or should i just save up

[@francesb7515]

This outfit looks amazing on you and the colors suit you as well. Thank you for taking the time to share your talent and process! For myself -in order to make this an item to wear any day I am thinking of a way to have the fluffy sleeves for a poetic flowy feeling while changing the uncomfortable constriction of the stomacher. I would like to try a mid weight moderate stretch vest with the shoulders adjusted similar to the stomacher. I wonder if a person could use elastic on the shoulder to add move-ability. A crochet vest would move and be strong yet flexible.

[@aliceswann4148]

So sweet! Fit well too! I love 17th garments. I see actually wearing stays is like an tight fitting bra. At the end of the day your so glad to take that baby off 😊

[@sarahlongshore2605]

I can't wait to see the finished piece!! You made that looks easy!! Can't imagine that it was!!!

[@MorganDonner]

Mock-ups can be surprisingly easy, since I don't need to worry about being very neat, or finishing any of the edges. They are for sure the fastest sort of sewing I do :D

[@thenatashadoran]

Absolutely gorgeous! That burgundy would make a stunning pair of stays too!

[@MorganDonner]

Thank you! I don't usually wear purple shades, but it is rather fetching, especially against the white shift.

[@thenatashadoran]

Really? It looks so good on you! So flattering with your hair, eye, and skin color!

[@kimberlyhaggard6828]

Love the 17th century corset, Looks very good. I am not quite that good yet but hopefully my sewing will get better.

[@thinktink1583]

THIS LOOKS AMAZINGGGGG

[@MorganDonner]

THANKS! I AM PLEASSSED :D

[@EmilieBlueBerry]

It looks so good on you! Looking forward to see the final stays :)

[@aussieauntynette6892]

Thank you Morgan for these vids, you've given me the courage to to try and I understand better why mock-ups are so important thanks to you and your vids. You are inspiring :)

[@Jaissec]

Woooowwww!!! It's so pretty. Now I must make one

[@MorganDonner]

DO IT! All the stays, all time!!

[@alisav8394]

That's just a mock up?? It looks like a finished garment! Wonderful work, can't wait to see the final result.

[@cryptidbeetle3941]

Wow, beautiful!

[@kyrella_xyz]

Nice! This is going to be stunning! I am boning and stitching together pieces of my mockup today. It puzzled me quite a lot how to join pieces when there are bones right next to the seam allowance, so I decided to try adjustable zip foot. I think it worked, but of course, there is no way to do topstitching on a machine after that.

[@MorganDonner]

Yeah, I spent some time puzzling over that myself, and checking my various reference books. It's clear that the seams are nearly always whip stitched together in one step, which I suppose means that you need to fold the edges of the seam allowance back BEFORE making your boning channels, which feels weird, but I can't image how else one gets that result. I did a workaround for the mockup here, but I'll have to hand stitch that in the final one.

[@kyrella_xyz]

@@MorganDonner Yes, exactly. I actually have step by step instructions on how to do that. Seventeenth-century Women's Dress Patterns Book 2, p90, there is plenty of information but I didn't care to read! Well, it is a mockup, I just want to see how it fits, fun with hand sewing will come later :-) And I managed to stitch through a couple of zip ties by accident, it turned out my machine is happy to do that.

[@Silrielmavi]

I'm excited to see the final result! It looks so good!

[@MorganDonner]

Thank you, I am very pleasantly surprised that it mostly fits!

[@lanas.2129]

Very nice 👌💕

[@KleinesMaunz]

That looks very nice!

[@paulisue2]

Yes!

[@penelope-oe2vr]

I would like to attempt this set of stays, they were my favorite in the book also.

[@uniquely.mediocre1865]

YAAAAAAAASS!! I'm so happy you're doing something 17th century, I absolutely love that fashion era of the mid 17th century. Please if you haven't considered it, please do a gown from that era as well, like either French courts or the Dutch, or even the English style, I just need more mid 17th century fashion in my life, it's so overlooked by the Elizabethan/Tudor 16th century fashion and Rucoco 18th century fashion

[@MorganDonner]

😃😃 I am glad you are happy! I am never sure where my motivation will lead me once I finish one project, but I do think it would be fun to make a mid 17th century outfit!

[@uniquely.mediocre1865]

@@MorganDonner well I look forward to it!!!

[@sebastiansweet5911]

So cute!! I love how the laces look? I think there are a lot more holes than other stays I've seen. it's so pretty.

[@MorganDonner]

Even though this is an undergarment and not something that would be visible to most people, I think that a woman still likes to have pretty underwear, even 350 years ago :D

[@suzyqc7607able]

This looks really great Ms.

[@olly31040965]

It was perfect, CONGRATULATIONS !!! I want you to teach how to make this white blouse that you are wearing !!! Is very beautiful!!!!

[@SeanMcGuire92]

This is so cool! 😃 I’m hoping to get PoF 3 & 4 sometime soon to make a shirt, a men’s doublet and jerkin, and a loose gown. I know you made an Italian loose gown based on the Juan de Alcega tailoring book before you started your KZbin, as well as a doublet and jerkin. Now that you have a KZbin, any chance you’ll make those types of garments again for yourself or your husband? If so, I’ll definitely wait until after those videos go up to start mine! Your videos are SUCH a huge help in looking at construction practically and with ease.

[@MorganDonner]

Thank you! Best of luck on your garments! I might make videos on those some day, but they arn't on the menu for the near future :/ Sorry, I do hope that the blog posts I did about those are still a little helpful though!

[@SeanMcGuire92]

Morgan Donner Oh, is there blog posts about them? Wonderful! I’ll check those out for sure. Thanks!

[@breeunwillard5211]

I freaking LOVE IT😍😍😍

[@allieg6401]

Very cool you make it look so easy. How did you know how much to enlarge the pattern before printing?

[@MorganDonner]

If you haven't already, definitely check out the "Scaling up a Pattern to Life-Size" video. Once I had the pattern in the photo editing software at 100% full/correct size, I then counted the squares to see what the waist size was, and used a percentage calculator to make the image that percent bigger to fit me. I hope that makes sense!

[@allieg6401]

@@MorganDonner thanks ☺ I downloaded a pattern at 100% size but the 10cm by 10cm square came out at 9 by 9... I was like wtf lol but it worked for me in most areas except the bust lol 😂

[@EphanyasisOwleyes]

I like the color of the mock up and would make a corset without the straps or make the straps so they go like the one I wear every day.

[@wendynordstrom3487]

Happy birthday! Lol! The stays DO look great. Will you be doing another video where you make the adjustments? I find your videos VERY helpful. Thanks, Morgan!

[@MorganDonner]

I will probably show them a bit when I make my final video on the 'real' stays :D Happy Birthday to everyone!

[@katherinemorelle7115]

If only modern bra manufacturers could produce a push up bra half as effective as 17th century stays! B

[@luminariel3765]

Gorgeous! On rare occasions, those dresses would have 'modesty lace' in the bosom. But it's not a panel, oh nooooooo, it's like 3 to 8 LAYERS of 4 to 6 inch wide, frilly lace. Just kind of tucked into the stays before the over dress is placed on.

[@heiditrampedach2084]

Your mock-up looks very promising, but the shoulder straps is lower than on the other stays, I have seen from this period. Maybe you could use another pattern for this part of the stays? Do a bit of Frankensteinian to make it fit you better?

[@MorganDonner]

Yeah, the straps are certainly too low, I'll need to raise them a bit before making the next version. I don't think I'll use a new pattern, I'll probably just alter this one a bit! :D

[@Manerva1973]

I notice you make allot of mock-ups! What do you do with them after you have completed them?

[@MorganDonner]

I am a very big fan of making sure that the pattern fits me as best as it can before cutting into my nicer fabrics :D So I make a ton of mockups (as you've noticed). I will sometimes keep them with my patterns, as a example of that specific paper pattern, especially if I finished all the edges and such. Sometimes I'll also keep them as a jumping off point for future unrelated projects. Sometimes I can cut out enough usable fabric from them to make linings or little bags, although that's not the case with this video's mockup!

[@olwendavis327]

It's odd but I've been meaning to ask that question myself thank you for asking first since I keep forgetting to:-)

[@darciemerriweather1206]

VanAdventuresWithCindy yeah can I buy one? 😊❤

[@katherinemorelle7115]

Late reply, sorry. But also, with some mockups, you can repurpose them into the lining for the project- depending on what kind of mockup and how close it is to what you need the finished lining to be. Miss Vee of Snappy Dragon is a big fan of using her mockups as the lining for her projects. It’s a great way to cut down on as much waste as possible.

[@darciemerriweather1206]

Yay

[@decorumgun]

The final piece turned out so well! I really want to learn to sew now. How long have you been sewing/costuming?

[@MorganDonner]

About 10 years or so, it has been a lot of fun!

[@decorumgun]

@@MorganDonner wow that's a lot of experience. really rad!

[@Tvianne]

Oh my, this is gorgeous. Do you think cording would be acceptable instead of boning? I'd have less problems finding the material for cording… Great video as usual💚

[@spacecaptain9188]

This is really cool, but has anyone tried using a modern rigid plastic netting (like a cheap laundry basket, or a flexible cutting board with a bunch of holes punched into it, or a dog recovery cone) instead of all of those ribs? I feel like this can be made with a hanful of plastic pieces, covered at the edges (so they don't poke), and laced together, all around, for a perfect and flexible fit. (Not to mention temperature control.)

[@bettsamyj]

You may have answered this previously, but I haven't been able to find it. What is the reason you trace patterns onto fabric and then cut out rather than pinning and cutting with the pattern piece in place?

[@MorganDonner]

To be honest, no particular reason. Sometimes I'll pin and cut, sometimes I'll trace then cut. Whatever sounds good in the moment that I am about to start! I know that's not very helpful, but both ways work very well.

[@bettsamyj]

​@@MorganDonner Thanks! I've never tried tracing and cutting, but it seems like it might be easier. TBH, I mostly work with knits making apparel, but I do make some historical clothing, as well. Tracing seems like it would be really nice for woven fabrics.

[@kittiekat1236]

KZbin tutorial on how to apply bias binding on corset edge cause my hands hurts... help?

[@MorganDonner]

I will make sure I show how I sew the binding on when I do mine! Thanks for the request!

[@lunaflamed]

Bernadette Banner sent me! New Sub! Cheers!

[@tygress12]

Love this. Thank you so much. So small question how do you get the plastic boning so flat. The boning i order is coiled up so it is frustrating to work with.

[@bbnl4276]

When it comes to fabric are twills or plain weaves better for making corsets?

[@MorganDonner]

I am sure that some will disagree with me, but I feel that the weave is less important than the overall characteristics of the fabric. I try to aim for something with no stretch on the straight or cross grain, sturdy enough to withstand the strain of being pulled tight when laced, and a tight weave that won't let bones poke through. For what its worth though, coutil is one of the highly recommended fabrics for corsetry, and it is often herringbone (twill).

[@bbnl4276]

Morgan Donner Thank you! I was worried about making the right fabric choice.

[@AlexaFaie]

Yeah you can't go wrong with coutil. In the past they used some fabrics which whilst they share the same name today, are just not of the same quality any more sadly. So when you read old pattern info sometimes the fabric they call for has to be substituted to get something of a similar quality to what was intended. However, once you get more experienced in making corsets you can find that you can bend the rules a lot more. So long as the fabric has barely any stretch, it can often work. Sparklewren made some gorgeous single layered corsets out of a very high quality (and expensive) silk satin, and they could handle quite a decent reduction for something so lightweight. Certain mesh fabrics are fantastic for corsets for summer too. You can even use aida cloth for cross stitch if you get the right weave size and secure the seams enough.

[@kittiekat1236]

I was wondering about how you work out the spiral lacing, not exactly for that style but for general 17th-18th century stays? Haven’t been able to get my hands on Jane Arnold’s book, however I have request a copy to be bought for my library.

[@MorganDonner]

Normally I try to sort of 'zig-zag' the eyelet placement on the two edges that are being laced together, and then the last set of holes are extra close. I aim for about an inch between eyelets on most garments, although I think that the pattern for this had it a little closer.

[@andrewkallem92]

A new sewer here, so this might be a silly question...but what stitch did you use to join the curving edges? (i've never seen that before and don't even know what to google for that technique)

[@MorganDonner]

Not silly! I am sorry I didn't think to mention it in the video: it's a zig-zag stitch. Very handy for instances like this!

[@onewomanarmy6451]

Wow, you look so beautiful in that!!!!

[@3inumon]

Amaría que hicieras un tutorial de la blusa que llevas en este vídeo 💕 I would love for you to do a tutorial of the blouse that you wear in this video 💕

[@MorganDonner]

I would love to do a video on that! It might be a while before I can get to it though :)

[@Mrsadams1]

What a great channel! Kind of off topic, I would love to know more about your Husky sewing machine. Do you love it? Does it handle layers of heavy weight fabric as well as sheers well? I’ve been looking it them for a while, do you think they are worth the price?

[@MorganDonner]

I did not purchase this machine, it was gifted to us years ago, but it has done very well for me so far! It handles thick things fine, although I so rarely sew sheers that I don't think I can attest to it's abilities there. I do really like how well it sews buttonholes, although pretty much all the rest of the 'fancy' machine stitches have not been used much by us. It can also sew programmed-in letters/words, but we never use it for that stuff. If I needed to purchase a new machine today, I would not mind looking for Husqvarna models, although I would likely aim for something a little more basic (like me! har- har-)

[@olwendavis327]

@@MorganDonner there is nothing basic about you I've been regaining my confidence in sewing thanks to you, bernadette and angela clayton the first three sewing channels I watched and subbed to you are all sewing Queens to me.

[@saraholsen9128]

I went to the book store to look for patterns of fashion (any of them) 😢they were out…

[@kellymckenzie1935]

This is amazing! You said at the end you gave yourself more room in the bust. HOW??? I'm super top heavy and can't figure out how to increase there without also increasing the waist measurement...

[@MorganDonner]

All I ended up doing is raising the upper edge of the side and back pieces, which resulted in the stays covering the sides of my bust better, and the stomacher was already tall enough, but I made it wider, especially near the top, to better overlap at the best. I am not sure if that's helpful, but I hope your stays work out!

[@j.j.9123]

@kelly, here are my suggestions. Method one, Butterick B4254, is actually a pretty good historical pattern. For seventeenth century period (the same as the video) you want to use A or D. For 18th century, view C. These go up to size 22, and it runs a bit large in the larger sizes. If you still need a size larger than this, you may be able to use the split and slide method as shown in this video. You could also order and use a proportion wheel or pay a small fee to an online tool called rapid resizer. Also there are people online with CAD programs that can take the size that fits you best, you provide your measurements and they will scale them for you for a fee.Want it to look more period? Use the commercial pattern to get your pattern shapes that will fit. Then study Arnold and other books and you can then add details and construction methods that will make it more custom and historical. If you’re just using the stays to get a more period look under your outer 27th or 28th century garnet, the Butterick pattern is fine. The stays are the best of what they produce under their reproducing history pattern.

[@j.j.9123]

@ Kelly, a postscript, if you were more interested in 18th as opposed to 17th, Simplicity 8162 is a really good stay pattern. It goes up to a 22. No commercial pattern company makes a good pattern for the gowns that go on top the stays but the stay patterns are very good in terms of providing support and the silhouette.

[@Rtomasso19]

Would you suggest heavier boning for a larger person? Such as medical grade steel boning?

[@MorganDonner]

I think that more numerous bones would be the answer rather than more ridged ones, but that would be worth some experimentation to find out!

[@worldsoull]

You put this video out exactly when I needed it! I just got my pattern printed from your previous video, and I was wondering what would be the best way to try and size it up... Your methods should work wonderfully! Just a question, is it completely necessary to bone the mockup?

[@MorganDonner]

It's not necessary, but I find that I get the most accurate 'picture' of what the pattern will look like if I treat it as much like the final version as possible. If you decide to only use a couple on your mockup (which is totally fine!), just remember to account for the extra width that the bones take up when you make your final garment. The whole thing will shrink a bit with the boning.

[@worldsoull]

@@MorganDonner Perfect, thanks for the response! I also had forgotten that the pattern I chose has a more minimal/party boned structure, so doing the boning shouldn't be too bad, other that I am hand-sewing it all!

[@Clockworkbjd]

Amazing! 💕You’re the first person I’ve seen making stays; most others make only corsets. Is that plastic bones you’re using? And if you are, aren’t you afraid of them warping?

[@MorganDonner]

Awesome! As for the bones, yes, they are indeed plastic, which is the closest substitute we have for baleen. This is just the mockup, so I used cheap industrial zipties. For the final version, I will still use plastic, but a nicer extruded version specifically made to mimic baleen as closely as possible. They will likely develop a slight bend over time to match my curves, and that's ok, you see that on the original historical stays too.

[@Clockworkbjd]

Thank you for responding! I’m just getting into historical costuming, so I didn’t know that plastic is the closest to baleen. Looking forward to the next video!

[@guitarsauce5978]

I've read that in some eras it was improper for women to raise their arms and their garments reflected that, but I can't remember which eras ahahaha, so maybe that was was designed during one of those times

[@AlexaFaie]

Not sure whether it was actually "improper" or if it was just part of fashion being fashion (a lot of historical studies like to remove women having agency from the picture when they were often the ones pushing a style), but yes, the dresses of this era were pretty restrictive in terms of arm movements. This is more the case in higher classes, stays worn by poorer women generally didn't cut across the arms with straps like that - they often were strapless or were higher over the arms with looser sleeves for ease of movement. :)

[@guitarsauce5978]

That would make since in terms of agency for sure :), however I remember reading a cited resource, but it could also have been one of those things saying you should do kind of resource versus a practical guide to expected good manners sort of thing. I can't find it now to verify the source though unfortunately, oh well. I do know it was very common myth to not raise one's arms above the head if pregnant because it was thought to wrap the umbilical cord around the baby's neck potentially (and still perpetuated today), and I wonder if it has anything to do with it. I personally don't equate required manners for upper class and lower class to be the same though, clothing aside. Even today, there is a large difference in expected behavior between the rich and the middle and poor classes. Maybe one day i'll find that source again and link it haha, at this point its internet hearsay! lol

[@AlexaFaie]

@@guitarsauce5978 Even with sources its one of those tricky things since bias comes into play. The number of sources on the "evils" of corsetry in general is huge, but the vast majority were written by men with a particular agenda. The same kind of men who will today expect a woman to look a certain way then get mad at them for wearing push up bras & make up calling it "deceiving". So its one of those might well be true, might just be coincidence. Like I learned recently that the real reason for keeping your elbows off the table is not because it was just considered inherently rude, but because table design used to mean that doing so would actually tip the whole table over if you put too much weight on it unevenly. But it generally just gets boiled down to "etiquette" because there are enough historical etiquette guides telling you not to do it because rude, that people don't remember the origin of the thing or the original intention behind it. I do know I've seen stuff written about it somewhere before, seen it in museum collections and stuff. But I've also seen incorrect statements in museum collections & as an archaeologist, the whole history of the profession has been full of incorrect interpretations so I'm always wary about anything now. LOL

[@guitarsauce5978]

very true indeed. When I learned about the women's rights to divorce with property rights with the laws of Hywel Dda of Wales, I was completely shocked. It was really surprising because this was never taught to me during any of my history classes concerning Medieval times or women's rights throughout history. It also reminds me of when I look for historic timelines, they're always European centric even when claiming to be world timelines. Very frustrating stuff indeed to find unbiased sources!

[@michellecelesteNW]

Those look like pro bonings plastics. How do those compare to zip ties? Budget-conscious minded. I'm wanting to make something that can handle everyday use. :)

[@barborasedlackova4634]

Hello. Excuse me. Where could I find the pattern? The one in the description doesent work anymore and I couldn't find it anywhere else. Im gratefull for every help. (Sorry for my bad english. Im not a native speaker)

[@shazzaisdabest1]

So i know not historically acurate but could one of these feesably be used for a Robe A La Francaise?

[@MorganDonner]

Even though the RalF dress comes along a hundred years later, the silhouette isn't terribly different. This would certainly work better than no support at all!

[@j.j.9123]

@shannon, the Arnold books have patterns for 18th century stays. Remember those pattens reproduce an existing historical costume. In the next video, she adjust her patterns because it’s very short waisted, people were generally much shorter in the 17th century. If you haven’t made 18th century stays yet or don’t really like the ones you made, consider using Simplicity 8162 - which is available up to size 22. Yes most commercial patterns are Halloweenish but this pattern and Butterick 4254 are remarkably good. Then you can look to Arnold or other books if you want to add or substitute details, hand picking the holes the cord goes through - for example. But you can be confident the pattern is sized to fit you. It all you want -are appropriate 28th century stays that will give you the right silhouette for your 18th century dress style you mention, this Simplicity pattern will be fine or you can start with it as a base and adapt it. For a great pattern for the dress you mention, have your library inter library loan you a copy of Jean Hunnisett’s volume of costume patterns for 1500 - 1800 from her series, Period Costumes for Stage and Screen. It’s now out of print but you’ll only have to pay postage and then you can copy what you need. Occasionally the series is reissued. Buy it when it comes out again. It has beautiful patterns for different styles throughout both the seventeenth and eighteenth century, including the style you’re interested in. Hunnisett was a contemporary of Arnold. She was a professional costumer and designer whose career encompassed opera, plays movies and historical dramas for the BBC. Hunnisett based her work on Arnold and original historical garments held in private collections. Her pattens, however, are already sized to fit the modern female figure and include step by step directions. You’ll still have to draft them out but use 1” grid pattern paper or (what I use) Pellon fusible quilters grid non woven interfacing fabric. It comes preprinted with a one inch grid in 45 inch width in ten yard bolts. At JoAnn fabrics, you can buy it by the yard or a whole bolt. If you use one of their monthly 60% coupons, ten yards will cost you $20. The book also has stay, pads, hoop/pannier patterns for the different periods. You’ll be able to crest a beautiful costume and it’s well worth the trouble of getting a copy through your library. Good luck!

[@kayjohnson3725]

What lacing did u use ?

[@charlessoutherton8946]

will this method, including the photo scanning work on the other janet arnold books, because I'm an aspiring pattern drafter and would love to use this method more, also the janet arnold patterns tend to look quite intimidating, could you show the same method o lets say patterns of fashion 2 1860 - 1930, cause I'm looking at making a garment from 1870-1920 and all of them scare me a little

[@MorganDonner]

You can do it! Consider making a couple smaller mockups just for practice! (Smaller because you waste a little less fabric that way.) I don't know when I'll be hitting up the late 1800's, but I'll keep you in mind when I am thinking about my next big project!

[@blazing_orchids]

Wow, it looks amazing on you! One thing though, it appears that there is a gap at the top of the back. Is it supposed to do that?

[@MorganDonner]

Thank you! I haven't done any 17th century clothing before now, so I am not quite fully sure what's normal or not yet! I do think that I should make the straps go a little higher, and I think that will help prevent some of the gap, but the 1650's look of 'straight across the back' bodices means that there will likely still be a bit of that, especially when I move my arms back. We'll see!

[@newtoatheism5968]

H now I know what stays are

[@Curious.Badger]

Hello Morgan!! Could this technique work for corsets from the victorian era as well?

[@MorganDonner]

Hello there! If you are asking about the pattern sizing, then yes, it should mostly work no matter what time period, although some of those Victorian gusset filled corsets are tricky! If its possible to buy the pattern your are interested in already sized to your measurements, that would be even easier!

[@michelleross9782]

Did the original have really have bones that narrow & not cording? They seemed REALLY narrow for bones. (Though it's not like I'm anywhere close to an expert in anything).

[@MorganDonner]

According to Patterns of Fashion 5, whom I trust implicitly on this, yes, the original corset that I based my pattern off of has very narrow strips of baleen.

[@thevioletskull8158]

What's a mock up?

[@MorganDonner]

A mock-up is a scale or full-size model of a design/pattern. It's a step beyond just measuring the paper and hoping things fit - you get to see how the garment will act on your own body. :D

[@sewmanyhobbies942]

How did you size up just the bust-area?

[@MorganDonner]

It didn't need to be too much larger, just a little longer next to the bust, and I made the stomacher a bit wider. I show that in the next video of this project! kzbin.info/www/bejne/bWjTkHaprZenqKM

[@kiarakeeper2154]

You make that look too easy.

[@Aryamoony]

Very nice tutorial and tips thank you :) but I guess you should change all the pattern ratio to fit your true size not just enlarge the waist&bust part. Plus you may need to enlarge waist but not bust or vice versa

[@cammieschmidt587]

I think I sound super annoying right now... but, I didn’t catch this seamstress/YT creator making it clear that a stay is not a corset, but lead to the way to corsets. .... okay, done with the annoying-person-post.I’m sure she says it and I just missed it! Sorry

[@luismiguelflor6390]

María Luisa de Orleans, Queen of Spain. es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:Mar%C3%ADa_Luisa_de_Orleans,_reina_de_Espa%C3%B1a.jpg