Making music with pedals only! / No Input techniques tutorial

[@NicStage]

I'd even go so far as to say to start and maybe end with cheap pedals. Just because the sonic areas of the effects (pedals, whatever) that no-input taps into aren't really what they were designed for anyway. So the things that happen when you push a really expensive reverb (for example) into severe over-modulation aren't really "better" (or worse) than a cheap reverb. For no-input, the difference between two different cheap pedals is just as useful and interesting as the difference between a cheap one and a fancy one.

[@AndreijRublev]

Totally agree with you!

[@nckwntzl]

Unless there's something specific you are after, but in that case you'll know what needs to happen 😊

[@Eau1983]

I would argue that cheaper pedals are ideal for this purpose as opposed to higher-end products. I know this is an extreme example but nobody is buying a Steinway Model D to smash the keys and bang the lid. I suppose a better comparison would be between buying a used Behringer VD400 or the new T-Rex Binson Echorec explicitly for feedback and no-input performances. As this process directly abuses the technology, more cheaply made pedals will likely yield better results as their circuit tolerances are more easily exceeded.

[@AndreijRublev]

That's absolutely true! Of course high end pedals can also be used but cheaper ones are way better for many reasons (cheaper components, simpler circuits, etc). It is basically a circuit bend process, so the practices and the philosophy are similar (using toys, consumer electronics devices, and give them a new unexpected function).

[@bdcooper5855]

Thank you for putting your knowledge out into the world. I've been doing this type of music since 1982 and I'm still amazed at its possibilities.

[@AndreijRublev]

That's amazing to read! It is something that connects us even after so many years! Thanks!

[@calebcrittenden]

Were you in the cassette culture tape trading scene?

[@bdcooper5855]

@@calebcrittenden No cassettes or recordings, only live and improvised performance art in small galleries and warehouses.

[@calebcrittenden]

@bdcooper5855 that's awesome none the less. I'm active in the scene today and know a couple of the folks who were making experimental music at the time like Al Margolis and Walter White. I'm glad you're still finding time to enjoy weird sounds as well.

[@adrianlikins1314]

This is also an area where cheap graphic eq pedals are super useful.

[@AndreijRublev]

Absolutely!

[@adrianlikins1314]

True stereo pedals are pretty handy for this since they allow you to create two different feedback loops in each channel. Bonus points if the pedal or multifx lets you combine the channel in an interesting way. For ex, a ping pong delay.

[@AndreijRublev]

Yeah, very true! Graphic eqs are absolutely great for this.

[@kevinputry5655]

This is so cool! The sounds you're making remind me of the ones that were produced by the BBC Radiophonic Workshop back in the day.

[@AndreijRublev]

Thank you so much! And the comparison with some of the pioneers of electronic music is unfair (I'm a humble noisemaker) but it's super appreciated!

[@grenadine-3-3-3]

what are you referring to? would love to see that

[@AndreijRublev]

You can search here on KZbin for Daphne Oram, Delia Derbyshire and BBC radiophonic workshop. Another super nice documentary about pioneers of electronic music is "Avevamo 9 oscillatori" ("We Had 9 Oscillators") about the Studio di fonologia della RAI in Italy (but this is impossible to find on the internet unfortunately). Another and more recent documentary on the topic of early electronic music is called "Sisters with Transistors".

[@grenadine-3-3-3]

@@AndreijRublev thank you :)

[@withoutcompression19]

Great advice & demo, again. We all know how astonishingly wealthy us experimental musicians are! so it's nice to see & hear affordable set ups.

[@AndreijRublev]

I feel you! And thanks for the nice words!

[@cravensean]

This is really inspirational. Now you've got me wanting a passel of cheap pedals to play around with.

[@AndreijRublev]

Thanks! Happy to hear that!

[@3str]

I enjoyed every second of this video. Being a modular synth nerd, I was always sure that feedback patching is the way. You've really opened up my horizon with your unacademic and artistically free approach. Thanks for this!!

[@AndreijRublev]

Thank you! Super happy that you found something interesting in here! Feedback related stuff is always super fascinating, really a vast field to explore in many different directions!

[@marmolejomartinezjoseemili9043]

8:26 to 8:32 is amaizing, its like after the big chaos we get some more simple sounds an then... An AMAIZING "drop" where the caos comes again, an amaizing story, with no meaning, created semi randomlly... But a story non the less

[@AndreijRublev]

Thanks! I really appreciate your words! I've worked on improvisation techniques for many years, so I'm super happy to hear that I'm able to tell something when I'm playing! Thanks again!

[@terryyaki7782]

Great video! I will not name any specific brand either but I like to use a pin matrix that connects all my pedals. It's very nice to reconfigure the signal path quickly.

[@AndreijRublev]

Oh yes, I still have to put my hand on a matrix mixer. It's definetely in my list!

[@patrickr6505]

Great fun..Reminds me of just playing one or two notes into my 18 pedals and putting the Bass down and tweaking knobs for an hour,alas Ive no cheap pedals , just boutique and expensive ones😁

[@AndreijRublev]

Yeah, so much fun!

[@svenjansen2134]

You're a pioneer on the noise frontier. Thanks for opening up this Pandoras Box!

[@AndreijRublev]

I'm just a humble noise maker, but thanks for the kind words!

[@ardiris2715]

I always put a compressor on the end set at full squash. Dynamics in the final sound are not much of a concern here, just taming the beast. (:

[@AndreijRublev]

totally! Limiters and compressors are very useful!

[@stuartchapman5171]

Yes totally agree, to rame the levels, I bought a pair of TC Forcefields but they don't really work that well. A good one with a limiter is a good investment. EHX do a stereo one in a oedal with z limiter. It high cuts at 16khz, as its designed for guitar. It's still very useable though.

[@craighamilton2063]

I think you could pull a tractor with those cables...wait...traktor? I almost pulled the rip cord on this one until I heard the host give a semi evil genius chuckle around 7:08. Now, I'm hooked.

[@stuartchapman5171]

Hi, nice work. Been waiting for this video. I agree totally. Work with what you have. There's so much old gear around. Yesterdays next big thing still sounds amazing, even though v3 has just been released. A lot of my favourite audio was made upto 70 years ago with very basic equipment or late 70's self released one off cassette or vinyl limited runs. I started dabbling with £20 pedals an old Tandy (Radio Shack) dj mixer, a turntable and a dictaphone. I performed and recorded some great gigs with that set up. Learn to solder. I've built a lot of odd gear housed in interesting items and hacked a few peices. At thd very least, being able to solder will allow you to make up your own custom leads, to connect up old gear in new ways. Can't wait for the next video. I almost bought an old Alesi rack reverb unit recently. I've run out of room now lol. Keep up the great sounding audio.

[@AndreijRublev]

Thank you so much for the kind words and for sharing your experience!

[@bruteflorist]

Ok. This is the second of your videos that I've watched. You're now officially my favorite thing on the Internet.

[@AndreijRublev]

Ooohh thanks! Glad you enjoyed them!

[@bruteflorist]

@@AndreijRublev and thank you! I'm looking forward to making my own version of your experiments! 🥂

[@holgerwalther7226]

thx! i am really happy, youtube find you for me! :D

[@AndreijRublev]

thanks KZbin!

[@Sharpened_Spoon]

Wow. This made for the ultimate space sci-fi thriller soundtrack.

[@AndreijRublev]

Totally agree!

[@JIDEHHIGHELEMENTS]

Man , very big thanks for this recall and all your infos

[@AndreijRublev]

You're welcome!

[@NullStaticVoid]

Ive been doing this for years. Like when I really wanted a modular set up. But Euro didnt exist yet so it was expensive. I patched up pedals and tape loops. I find it critical to have at least one digital pedal. Naturally you need a stereo pedal too. Also essential to put an env filter at or near the end. Old EHX and those old Realistic mixers with the VU meters kick ass.

[@AndreijRublev]

Great tips! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[@stuartchapman5171]

I used to have a Realistic mixer, loved it. Lots of inputs and outputs. Cheap semi broken car boot sale junk, it can be so useful and virtually free. Skips are great as well. My Studio amp came out of a skip 20 years ago. Still going strong.

[@pconalbi]

Hi! I have recently saw you @ simon channel....This is very beatiful, I love the feedback techniques...I am wondering what should happen with a Kaosspad or something with a sensitive surface....It´s time to borrow one i think. Thanks!

[@AndreijRublev]

Totally worth a try! Unusual interfaces are feedbacks best friends!

[@hereonmars]

This is wild, homie. Thx for sharing.....

[@AndreijRublev]

Thank you!

[@luistavares6670]

Man just amazing

[@AndreijRublev]

@@luistavares6670 Thanks!

[@ruckus28]

Awesome sounds an ideas

[@AndreijRublev]

Thanks!

[@DanielRojasBuscaglia]

Andreij, receive all my thanks for opening us as musicians to this new knowledge, for me approaching this type of musical creation was practically impossible due to the high cost of the equipment, but you have revealed greatness to us, without a doubt you will be a memorable example to follow and spread. Just one question, is there a risk of damaging the inputs or outputs of pedals or mixers? A big hug, great teacher... Greetings from Santiago de Chile.

[@AndreijRublev]

Thanks for your nice words! No there is no risk in damaging the input and the output if you use only line level signals. Avoid amplified signals (like the ones in amplified mixers or amplifiers outputs) and you'll be totally safe ;)

[@markbutterfield374]

Brilliant noise,Sounds like you opened a portal to hell and I absolutely love to see a man so happy in a cacophony,very inspiring,thanks for another delightful vid

[@AndreijRublev]

Thank you for the kind words! Glad you appreciate it

[@antiphlex]

If you put auto-generated captions on, you get improvised lyrics too!

[@AndreijRublev]

@@antiphlex perfection! Love that!

[@Jeeboo007]

great stuff, great state of mind :)

[@AndreijRublev]

Thank you! Much appreciated

[@sashajedinac9391]

Nice. I’ve been in the ‘noise’ scene for some time and have plugged a lot of stuff together. Time based effects like reverb, delay, chorus, et cetera usually yield the most diverse sounds. Everything else I use for color and added harmonics. Have you done any experiments with matrix mixers? They can be quite fruitful and create connections you might not have thought of.

[@AndreijRublev]

Never tried a matrix mixer but it's in my list! Totally need to try it in one of my complex setups!

[@dannyroessler]

@@AndreijRublev that would realy fit to your performance, and they are easy to made if you wouldn't by one

[@stuartchapman5171]

I used to build and sell them 4x5. I still build the odd one. They really are wild. Mine are passive, so there's signal loss. A couple of active ones are on my to do list.

[@AndreijRublev]

@@stuartchapman5171 Oooh! Well keep me updated, absolutely!

[@stuartchapman5171]

@Andreij Rublev OK you've inspired me. I've seen many designs based around op amps, inverting and standard. I've been sketching out transistor clean boost designs.

[@koitka2037]

GREAT!

[@AndreijRublev]

Thank you!

[@lofimat3856]

Oki this supaah COOL!!

[@AndreijRublev]

@@lofimat3856 Thanks! Happy you like it!

[@robertsyrett1992]

Really fun stuff!

[@AndreijRublev]

Thanks!

[@McDoinky]

I bet the Boss Line Selector would be useful in a setup like this

[@AndreijRublev]

It can definetely be super handy!

[@alanbg2278]

Hi ! Magpie sent me . Can’t stop now but will catch you later ...

[@AndreijRublev]

Thanks for passing by!

[@alanbg2278]

@@AndreijRublev I’ll be back !

[@pastaway3620]

Awesome thx 🖤🖤

[@AndreijRublev]

[@ishanazir4734]

hello! I was wondering: does the different knobs have a previsible impact on the sound, like in a traditional synth? I mean like an oscilation rate or filter cutoff (these are example I understood it's not the same mechanisms)

[@AndreijRublev]

Not really. The result may vary a lot, depending on where a specific effect is in the signal chain or how it is built. There are some recurrent parameters that can give you slightly more predictable results (for example: EQs tends to change the pitch of the self oscillation, time based effects can create ritmical patterns, et cetera) but in general it is rather difficult to connect directly a single parameter to a specific sound result.

[@tocacuerdas]

DUDE IM AMAZED WITH THIS TECHNIQUE, but i wonder if it is dangerous for the gear itself, i mean if the signal if too loud that damage the circuits of the pedals (i'm not speaking about the speakers, its about the pedals) and if you want to put efx after that, would you put some kind of gain stagging before?? Thanks a lote😁😁😁

[@AndreijRublev]

In my experience it is really difficult to damage your pedals (in many years it never happened to me). Since you work with line level only stuff saturation is in general very well managed by the circuits, they are built to bear a saturated signal. If you want to put some effects after the feedback chain a gain staging level can be super useful to have a better control on the signal.

[@tocacuerdas]

THANKS A LOT MAAN😁😁 I ve just found a guy who sells a behringer mix for 3€ JAJAJA I m taking It and making some stuff😈😈

[@AndreijRublev]

Let's go! Have fun!

[@juanfranciscosegovia-artef7607]

Do you follow a logic path in order to create the sounds, depending on the gear you are using? In a "normal" context, each control is suposed to do a specific variation on the signal, for example, the time on the reverb or delay and the amount of the LFO in a phaser or flanger. But in your example it seems like all those controls don´t respond the "normal" way. Am I wrong?

[@AndreijRublev]

Exactly. The predictable result of a specific control changes a lot in a feedback chain and it is way less predictable. In general there are some recurrent things, like for example filter based effects (tone knobs, eqs, etc) usually change the tone and the pitch of a feedback, time based effects (delay time, stepped phasers, lfos) usually create rythmic type of variations, and so on. But since the audio signal is so hot most of the time the circuit of a device responds in a different way from what you expect. The signal chain also affects the result of a control parameter depending on its position. So yeah, lot of unpredictability as well. You can for sure follow a logic when you make your setup, but part of the charm, at least for me, is in unpredictability and low level of control on the instrument, that result in a core interplay between the musician and the instrument.

[@juanfranciscosegovia-artef7607]

@@AndreijRublev Thank you for yout time and sharing. Take care.

[@NothingNowhereNoOne]

Brilliant. You ever listen to The Rita, Prurient, Puce Mary, etc.? Any chance we can get a list of the actual pedals you are using and the order? Into final mixer? Etc. thanks. Amazing performance. I would’ve loved to have seen this live in a dark, small venue! \m/

[@AndreijRublev]

Thank you! Yes, I was pretty into the harsh noise world many years ago (now a bit less). Do you want to know the exact setup I used in this video? I cannot really recollect the routing, I made it on the spot, it was not a prepared setup, so I'm not really sure about the order of the pedals. Probably the last one was the reverb (just because of the stereo output). The pedals are: a behringer distortion (ultra distortion, or something like that), behringer reverb, a waldorf 2 pole filter, a tc electronic harmonizer, a greydressedboy delay and distortion (handmade by a guy from my area), a boss phaser.

[@NothingNowhereNoOne]

I make music the same way. Great set here! What are all the pedals on the table here ? Some are obvious , some are not.

[@AndreijRublev]

there are two distortion pedals (the orange one, and the smaller black one), a phaser (the green one), a reverb (the grey one), a delay (the green/grey one) and a filter (the bigger black one).

[@MreenalMams]

Oh wow i didn't realise that all i need is a splitter.. Gonna have to look for one next month..

[@MreenalMams]

Now that I think of it, I already use that technique.. but I just can't hear it... Whenever I'm not using my pedals, i usually disconnect the short cable that i was using it to connect with other pedals, and just connect it to the other side of the pedal.. so that it doesn't make a mess.. that means technically the feedback is already happening inside but i just had no way to hear it..

[@AndreijRublev]

@@MreenalMams yes, true. Check for mono splitters, they are pretty inexpensive and super useful!

[@sonapipian]

Hi Andreij, can I create a "synth" with a sound generator (or white noise generator) at the head of a chain of guitar effects?

[@AndreijRublev]

Of course! You can totally do it! There are no specific rules and you can add whatever signal you want to a signal chain, even in a no input setup. I made a video about this topic, you can find it here on my channel.

[@sonapipian]

@@AndreijRublev Thank you! I discovered your channel just yesterday, now I'm studying it!

[@AndreijRublev]

No, thank you! Hope you'll find something interesting!

[@breiskapenthouston9674]

Nice to see new no input content. I've been wondering if I record no imput mixer sounds on a dummy tape and play them back into the mixer, does that count as a no input technique? Not that it matters but just wondering. Allso im using jomox resonator with no input and its such a powerfull machine.

[@pconalbi]

nice thing to keep it analog! feedback with a walkman ? yeeeeeees!

[@AndreijRublev]

I've heard good things on the jomox! I love nasty filters ;)

[@stuartchapman5171]

I often use a backing tape and or loops in my feedback gigs. There's no rules. I often use the tape for adding spoken word samples as well and inject them into the feedback loops. Yes Input Mixing, as opposed to No Input Mixing.

[@geminidefect]

inspired

[@AndreijRublev]

[@георгийогнев-ч9р]

Is it ok , it i want to listen it 24/7 ?

[@Dokkalfar-eh3sk]

13:38.... my brain wants more of that is about to happen

[@zloboslav_]

If I put my boss compressor pedal at the end (just before my sound card) can it ensure a limited volume which won't be exceeded no matter what I do? Or can the signal still become too loud even with that?

[@AndreijRublev]

if you use the compressor after the feedback chain (and not inside of it) it's perfect and it allows you to control the maximum output volume.

[@zloboslav_]

@@AndreijRublev Thank you! That's exactly what I plan to do! :) I have more curious ideas like putting a bunch of kill-switches and connecting it to the harmonizer to play it with my keyboard... This will be so much fun!

[@AndreijRublev]

@@zloboslav_ lovely ideas! Keep us updated!

[@zackp1717]

So I dont have a mixer, but I have pedals and a tascam us-1800. Could I go directcly from the pedals to the audio interface? Just start with all the corresponding volume knobs at 0?

[@AndreijRublev]

Yes, start with volume at 0 and then adjust it, accordingly. If you are using an audio interface you can also apply some plugin limiters from your daw to protect your speakers or earphones.

[@zackp1717]

@@AndreijRublev dude I'm so excited for this. I have a whammy pedal and a cheap ring mod that I wanna use with these ideas and see what comes of it. I didn't even THINK of using plug-ins with it either. I've been playing guitar, bass and drums since I was 13, fell in love with effects soon after, but now at 31 am really exploring my love of organic electronic music. You've taken something I'm so familiar with and have given me a bridge to that new genre I'm trying to create in. The information is invaluable ❤️❤️ thank you so much for the reply.

[@AndreijRublev]

@@zackp1717 This really warms my heart! So glad that my small video was useful and inspiring! Thanks for the nice words!

[@zackp1717]

@@AndreijRublev I truly mean them. Music is a gift and I love sharing it and when it's shared. If I'm able to come with anything worth sharing myself, I'll send it your way!

[@AndreijRublev]

@@zackp1717 Really looking forward for it! Thanks!

[@sebastianka2309]

🙌🏻

[@AndreijRublev]

[@mutedsounds2k]

Hi, Andreij. Thanks for another greatly instructive video! Now, since the setup is just a chain of pedals and the last goes back into the first one... What about using a SINGLE Zoom MS70 CDR? It can chain up to 6 virtual petals choosen from a plethora of more than 140 different ones... It's very affordable (about 115€) and occupies the space of a single pedal (and consumes power as a single one too!). Can't it be a good idea?

[@AndreijRublev]

It's totally worth a try, for sure! Obviously the more controls you have the better it is in terms of sound manipulation possibilities, but using just a single pedal and its limitations can be pretty interesting and inspiring! If I had one of those I would totally try it

[@mutedsounds2k]

@@AndreijRublev I think it would be worth a follow-up video. "No input pedal board... with a single inexpensive pedal!". Obviously, the limitation that comes to mind is that you'd have to access the single virtual pedals one by one. But... who knows. A talented person like you could be able to take advantage from this MINIMAL setup.

[@AndreijRublev]

I'll keep that in mind, thanks for the suggestion! Even if buying a pedal to make a video is not really my approach. I prefer to use what I have yet, but I can come up with something I still have! And thanks for the nice words!

[@mutedsounds2k]

@@AndreijRublev Sorry, I misinterpreted your words. I thought you already had one of these "synth in a pedal", as I call it... You'd be surprised to hear what it does with a simple self built "spring box" (which is nothing but a contact mike in a box to which you attach any kind of springs, cords, metal bits, rubber bands, ... whatever can produce vibrations). And, again, it could be an idea to build a custom instrument really from scrap bits (zero cost!). I guess the most expensive part would be the output connector (but you can salvage it from a non working device). Or the contact mike, which can be reclaimed from an old toy or a clock, a calculator, a wish card, ... Because the piezo element is often bidirectional, as most speakers are.

[@AndreijRublev]

@@mutedsounds2k No worries! I hope I didn't sound rude! That's another super cool thing to try for sure. I love to share the principles so people can try stuff on their own without a "gear" restriction. Hope this videos will be useful!

[@sergeik4604]

Андрюха лучший!

[@AndreijRublev]

Thank you ❤

[@Matrix...777]

💯🤩

[@robertgillespie9839]

BEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRDDDDD!!!!!

[@AndreijRublev]

BARBA!!!

[@StupidEarthlings]

I wonder how a slicer pedal would sound, either input OR output side....

[@AndreijRublev]

Never tried personally but it will be very useful to create rythmic patterns probably!

[@OMNI_INFINITY]

I used to make music in Ableton with “only feedback”, but it actually required an input pulse to get it started. Guess the pedals are modifying their own output so it functions somehow

[@AndreijRublev]

That's great! Yeah, you can totally create feedback loops in a digital environment but of course you have to use an audio signal to start them in the first place (like for example a pulse or some white noise). The input with hardware circuits is basically the background noise of the circuit itself that exponentially increases in the feedback loop and becomes audible.

[@OMNI_INFINITY]

@@AndreijRublev Oh, it’s the noise. That’s cool. Yeah, maybe tried with some noise. Maybe sequenced it with a MIDI gate or similar..

[@hollywood4834]

I used the stock vinyl distortion for this

[@bukong.studio]

sick and beautifull ;)

[@AndreijRublev]

@@bukong.studio Thanks!

[@zenartist]

Who need modular synths

[@AndreijRublev]

not me hahaha

[@yy6u]

is software going to have a mention in this series? it's arguably more accessible and there's extra fun involving plugins which some are software only, there's many hardware emulators too

[@AndreijRublev]

Will try to do something about this topic. It's a different world with different processes and sound results but it can be fun too.

[@yy6u]

thanks for considering it, I understand

[@joyful_satyr]

Anybody tried this with a Line6 helix?

[@AndreijRublev]

Unfortunately not.

[@bintangdomena]

Hi Andreij, Here is one I made with a multi-effects pedal; it has a 1/4 cable plugged into it and I'm crossing the positive and negative contacts while manipulating the pedal. It does has a drum track and me playing the guitar though. Maybe it will give you some ideas that might improve on the concept. : ) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJq5dpqvabtlmac

[@AndreijRublev]

@@bintangdomena sounds super nice! Thanks for sharing!

[@bintangdomena]

@@AndreijRublev Wow! Thank you!! That pedal and it's predecessor the ME-50 have a really fun noise suppression feature as well. All the best eh!

[@gabi.schubert]

nice vid! ci vediamo dopo

[@AndreijRublev]

Thanks!

[@illGatesMusic]

I WANT TO HAVE YOUR BABIES!!!

[@AndreijRublev]

Hahaha

[@CraicPype]

This is fucking quality. I'm watching the vid minimised so I kept mistaking your beard for headphones around your neck. 10/10; would destroy my ears listening to this again.

[@AndreijRublev]

Hahaha thanks!