Making my BUDGET NEWT work for ASTROPHOTO - Collimation and others on SW Quattro 150P

[@MrWacha]

The moment I saw the "anti-light leak" device (aka black isolating tape) around the focuser I was like "welcome to hell my brother from another mother". Newts in general are light buckets but boy glad we don't have to use them to carry water around. Edit: BTW one can use ZWO ASI 224 (or any other planetary cams) with their standard 2.1 or 2.5 mm CCTV fisheye lens instead of the OCAL. Those cameras fit 2" focusers perfectly, then add some collimation rings to the picture using SharpCap Pro (probably can do with N.I.N.A. too) and voila you got OCAL "on the cheap". Granted, you need to play a bit with focus but if you ever use this lens for AllSky you are good to go out of the box. My TS-Optics Concenter 2" collimation eyepiece and Laser collimator usually agree with this method of collimation. And it is so much easier and more precise then running back and forth between eyepiece and primary collimation screws. Another advantage you can confirm your collimation for all focus points, i.e. move draw tube all the way in and out and you then know if you have any tilt in the focuser. And... drums rolll - Bob's Knobs... few Euros and such a life saver for when in the field.

[@syberand]

Was just about to write about collimation with your guidecam, the easiest way to do it by far and damn preciese. For the raspberry camera you can actually buy lenses. I bought one that was not so widefield, that made it even better.

[@Spaced_Out_Bill]

Great video Cuiv! I totally rebuilt my 8" Orion reflector including replacing the focuser with a Feather Touch, re-coating both mirrors and flocking the inside. I was having a really hard time Collimating until I bought a Cateye TELETUBE XLS site tube. I was able to center and round the secondary mirror under the focuser and everything fell into place after. The scope is working awesome, I'm super happy with the upgrades!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Woohoo excellent to hear Bill! In the end on my side I dusted off the OCAL to see how well it would work, and it sure made things easier :D

[@pzellerphoto]

You should 100% get the upgrade set from Backyard Universe! The mirror blend enhances the contrast a lot and the 2nd mirror spider is a dream and hold the collimation perfectly during so many sessions. It’s worth every penny and both upgrades brings the telescope to a whole new level and even close to Takahasis. You should do it!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I'm reaching out to Backyard Universe!

[@tommyozzy317]

This is the 2nd time watching this video. Just got my 150 quattro 2 weeks ago and got my first night out 3 days ago. Total disaster. Thought i did a good job collimating but was definitely way off. Even the vignetting was way towards 1 side which im assuming means one or both of the mirrors is quite a bit off. Spent a good few hours today on collimation. I noticed that if you tighten 1 of the 2 screws on the draw tube, itll misalign the laser. I saw that holding the laser into the draw tube and tightening them both alternating seemed to keep it good and centered. Even so, playing with the secondary screws would stress the spiders if you are not gentle. My first newt and im glad i decided to go with the small one just to get my feet wet. Inwanted a super fast astrograph but might stick with my refractors. Lets see what i get tonight.

[@AshA-ww8hc]

Best advertisement for refractors 😅

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

For sure! Lol

[@jimmyroy8715]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek you should cover up the spider vain chrome bolt inside the tube it causes me circular réflection inside mine sry for my english im french from quebec

[@poggerschampion2765]

In all honesty using this scope, it easily out performed every refractor ive used below 1.25k with the only exceptions being redcats, and the tak60. And every refractor ive owned has had a lot of similar out of the box issues, especially with dovetails, focusers, and reflective materials on the inside of the tube causing massive issues. Not to mention, I've received fracs with bad collimation. You can't fix that, it's just a bad scope after that

[@AshA-ww8hc]

@@poggerschampion2765 I have had an Askar FRA 400 that I got for $1200 brand new. It has been the most hassle free experience I ever had in AP.

[@twm1452]

@@poggerschampion2765 That’s not correct. Good refractors are typically made so they can be collimated.

[@gregerianne3880]

Thanks for showing us all that, Cuiv! You know, when I had to return my Quattro 150P I was a little bummed but I honestly didn’t want to have to deal with all the exact same problems I saw coming (as you described) so, at least for me, having a faulty coma corrector was a blessing in disguise. This may be a little harsh, but NOBODY should advertise something as an astrograph that has all those problems. Another reason I’m done with Sky-Watcher (besides their horrendous service policies). I guess everyone’s mileage may vary. Just my opinions.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yeah I completely understand - even now I'm wondering whether I'll keep it

[@travlon5101]

WOW ... I thought it was just me! I had the same problems with my Orion astrograph reflector. It took me hours to get the collimation good. I ended up getting the Farpoint Laser tool AND the Ocal. Both helped me get the true alignment. Thanks for your help and all the links you provided.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

My pleasure, and glad you got it figured out!

[@heavyjohnny]

OH YOU GOT THE 150P! I love mine, ordered it Kyoei in Osaka. First thing I did was order a feathertouch to replace the garbage focuser. 8 month wait, maybe ill get it in October. Hey I know your busy but if your looking for new ideas for content. Something changed in the ascom update and my ZWO EAF focuser will not connect to Nina. I you got it working a short video showing what you did will really help. Thanks again I look forward to your content. I just formatted my Q3 and reinstalled windows so I could load the previous driver I have archived. Uninstalling the new ones and reinstalling the old ones would not work.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I didn't do anything specific for the EAF! Just installed the ASCOM drivers and it just worked...

[@heavyjohnny]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek , I may have botched it. I’m formatted the q3 and am reinstalling the old ascom drivers. 🤞

[@klaussfreire]

YES! I too discovered that trick. I mount my 150P (on my mount) and point it not fully up but 45° to collimate. The mirror assembly, secondary mirror or the focuser, hard to know which, shifts slightly between that position (which is the position it's at when imaging) and fully horizontal (which is the position I used to collimate in), and that slight shift messes your collimation big time. Ever since I started doing it my collimation improved 10-fold, so... I'm gonna keep doing it. Vertical collimation forever. One thing you can do to avoid the risk of damage to the mirrors is to do the actual adjustments in the horizontal, but check their result in the vertical. (having it on the mount helps for that) I do that only for secondary alignment, primary adjustments are safe to do in the vertical.

[@lukomatico]

"it's taken me 3 hours, my neck hurts, I LOVE IT" hahahah 😂👍 Excellent video as always mate! I appreciate you keeping it ghetto 👌

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Hahaha thanks Luke!

[@PetterAstrom]

Im sorry to say this, but if you use the spider vanes to centre the secondary mirror and you have to pull them too far then your diffraction spikes will not overlap and you will have angled double diffraction spikes. I usually make sure the vanes are perfect before collimating. Just checking on a very bright star will do.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I'll see!

[@PujicMafia]

I have a 200P, and I had a similar experience here. Here was my journey: I live in the US, got my sample from the UK with that godawful focuser that was entirely unusable, even with an EAF because of ‘sticktion’ of the drawtube in the focuser. So maybe UK folks get the bad version? I got SkyWatcher UK to send me a new focuser after weeks of back and forth, to just receive another one that was as bad. So I gave up and bought a Feathertouch Focuser instead. Beautiful piece of equipment now, but not a budget system anymore, to say the least. Collimation process is as difficult and bad as you say Cuiv! I feel like I’m pretty good at this sort of thing too - I have other telescopes I can collimate really well, I machine my own parts when needed, I take camera lenses apart and fix them, I’ve taken DSLRs all the way apart to fix them, I build houses for a living and can fix cars when I have to - just saying I’m a handy guy and have lots of experience with mechanics and tools, but collimating this thing is mind bending!! Why is it this bad? After all this what do I think? We’ll, I actually love it!! 8” Newtonians just suck in photons and I’ve had amazing images, and great resolution. My rig is well tuned now and I feel like I understand it pretty well after everything I’ve been through with it. With this hobby being so easy now and everything being automated and one click away from almost anything you want to do with Astro, it’s nice to have a way to engage with the hobby where you really have to roll up your sleeves to make something great come out of it. Maybe I’m just weird that way, but I love my amazing shitty Quattro!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Mwahahaha I love this ode to difficulty and frustration, it is indeed fun to be able to tinker :-)

[@SmilingJ]

You have my respect for doing this without an Ocal. I gave up and bought one and it was totally worth it.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yes indeed, keeping it simple :-)

[@brandonporter4227]

I always do the collimation of my secondary on my Dobsonian vertically so gravity pulls down on it. I understand the risk, but if you're that concerned you're going to drop something, get Bob's Knobs or something similar so you don't have to use a tool to make the adjustments.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Good to know I'm not alone!

[@jurgenterpe4121]

I have the 8" Quattro and I can tell you it took me 3 months (with no clear sky) to finally get rid of tilt and other issues. The same focuser, which was not perpendicular to the tube, the secondary not placed even nearby where it should be. Meanwhile I replaced the spider (now using the one from Backyard Universe which is amazing) and I'm still considering replacing the focuser, because it does introduces a changing tilt through the night. But I'm curious what your improvements would be, so please, if you are willing to spend some money for improvements it would be nice to see your progress! The mirrors are not bad, so I think it's worth to improve the rest.

[@davidgalemusic7447]

"an absolute nightmare, I loved every moment of it" 😀. Reminds me of a running joke in the 60's sitcom "Get Smart" where the Chief would say to Max, "its a very dangerous assignment, you'll be facing danger at every turn, torture and probable death." To which Max would respond "and loving it".

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Mwahaha! I only ever watched the movie "Get Smart" but it feels like the same spirit :-)

[@siegfriednoet]

That's on of the reasons why I love doing this hobby Quiv, problem solving. Very informative video again

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Glad you liked it!

[@pinguru0815]

Hi Cuiv, I have a 150/750 PDS from Skywatcher. They are pretty similar. It helped me a lot having a very small center marking on the secondary mirror. You just have to include the offset. Then you can align your secondary with the laser collimator very easily. You can see the laser reflecting from the dot. The dot just needs to be smaller than the spot diameter of the laser. When the secondary is removed anyway, you could make a mark opposite of the focuser inside the tube. You can align the angle of the focuser using this mark. With these two markings, I am able to collimate this flimsy OTA.

[@nikanj]

I have a Sky-Watcher Quattro 200 which has the same secondary mirror spider so I can relate to your pain getting everything aligned. I just wanted to add that beginners should not be scared off from buying this bargain of a scope by Cuiv's collimation experience. The secondary mirror should be properly positioned from the factory, if it isn't then you can try to get the retailer to fix it for you. The only collimation you should need to do is the standard secondary mirror tilt and primary mirror tilt. The only reason I needed to re-align it was because I completely removed it to drill some holes for a new focuser. I also owned a Sky-Watcher 130PDS which has the same focuser as Cuiv's. It is quite terrible, it worked ok at first with my ZWO EAF but after a while the draw tube wore down and it would slip when near focus. Tightening it only only made it wear down faster. If you get a model with this focuser then plan on replacing it eventually. The good news is that my Quattro 200 shipped with a much better focuser (I only replaced it because I'm addicted and can't stop spending money on astronomy gear). So when buying a Sky-Watcher Newtonian check what focuser it's equipped with. Even in the same country I've seen the same model scopes shipped with two different focusers. The bad focuser looks like Cuiv's: www.astroshop.eu/focusers/skywatcher-2-crayford-focuser-for-explorer-newtonian-reflectors/p,22264 The good "linear bearing" focuser looks like this. Note the steel rail on the side of the draw tube. www.365astronomy.com/lacerta-linearpower-precision-dual-speed-focuser-1.25-2-compatible

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you for the info Myrmidon!

[@lehelgyuro5603]

This is the standard Crayford focuser they use on their whole PDS line. Another issue is, that the friction rod only sits up at a part of the dent of the focuser tube, which is usually the edges. After a few weeks of usage one can see this, as the rod is steel, the tube is aluminum, and the tube becomes shiny in the more used areas. I had to dismantle mine, and carefully grind it, using a whetstone into a flat surface, so that the two components touch each other on an area as big as possible. This removed the slow slip with the DSLR.

[@nikanj]

@@lehelgyuro5603 Even the 300 PDS? I know that the Quattro series ships with either this focuser or the better linear bearing focuser. It makes it really confusing for consumers.

[@lehelgyuro5603]

@@nikanj The ones they sell in Europe all share the same one, or at least visually they are the same one. Looking at the specs from the distributor doesn't either suggest any difference, but of course, here, at the east end they mostly have the cheap ones...

[@rogerwilkinson2818]

I have done the exact same collimating procedure as you but used an Ocal. Had to stand the scope up and yes a full afternoon of tearing my hair out. I need to test once the cloudy uk weather breaks.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Fingers crossed that it's good!

[@victorvillenapenas4274]

hey quiv! i highly recommend you a concenter eyepiece, the collimation cap/laser aren't precise enough at that f ratio, by using a concenter eyepiece you can make sure that your secondary is perfectly centered under the focuser so that you get even field illumination, you'd benefit too from an autocollimator for the primary.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I wanted to get one but couldn't find one locally!

[@laurelland-1395]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek J'ai acheté un concentrique la semaine dernière pour mon 150 Quattro, effectivement le laser est loin d'être assez précis, c'était complètement à la ramasse !!

[@frogliza9977]

Hello master collimator, I am in the market for a f/4 newt, what all collimation tools do you recommend?

[@victorvillenapenas4274]

@@laurelland-1395 hi! you'd need a (*sight tube*) to center the secondary under the focuser, a (*laser*) to align the secondary to the primary, a (*cheshire*) to align the primary mirror and finally an (*autocollimator*) for absolute precision. a caliper would be handy to make sure that your secondary spider is centered in the tube, it must be quite tight too to avoid flexure and changes in collimation during the night. note: make sure that the sight tube has a the same or similar f ratio as your scope for better precision. note: there's some sight tube * cheshire tool on the market so you don't have to buy two separate tools. note: if you can, get 2" collimation tools. your laser must be collimable, otherwise don't buy it.

[@AndyofAstro]

Hi Cuiv, interesting video. I have had terrible circle shapes in my images from a 200pds. I did literally everything to prevent this, as you have done, but I still had them. The light frames would not show the circle, neither would the flats, however when stacked the resulting image had a large circle. I believe I found the issue, the primary mirror was moving in the mirror cell. As the scope guided the mirror moved slightly and over a nights imaging it meant that the lights could not be calibrated. The flats did not correspond to the lights because the mirror position had moved. I've spent six months trying to address this. Might be worth checking that your primary is not loose in the cell. I've had to return my scope to the vendor.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

So many potential issues :-(

[@MrPedalpaddle]

Excellent chat about Collimation. I’ve just bought the Orion 150mm f4. Good design & parts, but shoddy assembly. Glad I’ve got the Ocal. But, the Starizona .75 Corrector / Reducer works with it to yield 450mm f3, a poor man’s RASA

[@B4ndwidthBandito]

Ooooh myyy god, thank you for detailing this process. I have a skywatcher 190MN and whilst it's a little different from this model, I went through a similar process to calibrate. Light leaks drove me mad, as a person who has only relatively recently started this hobby I was upset that the device was manufactured in a way that did not seriously attempt to block stray light. After a lot of torch tests I also used tape on the focuser and this had an immediate improvement in my images. Then I was struggling with collimation and after a lot of different techniques I have settled on a combination of laser and a reflective Cheshire eyepiece. After this a defocused star looked pretty good. I have also seen the circular artefacts on images in the past, the effect was especially noticeable after DBE with pixinsight. I did not seem to get this issue on my most recent imaging session and I think it was the more precise collimation and the fact that I can see the primary in full on the secondary when checking collimation via the reflective Cheshire. I was literally going to give up on this hobby when this discovery saved my sanity. Seeing you have similar issues and (hopefully) overcoming them makes me feel a lot better about my much longer journey (due to my inexperience). Clear skies!

[@EthanChappel]

Cuiv, your crayford focuser appears to be the same as my U.S. unit purchased in mid-2022. I believe the European version has a rack and pinion focuser. As for my experience with the Quattro 150P, it has been about the same as yours. It was mostly fine as is being an outreach scope for EAA, but it is slowly turning into a secondary imaging scope and the flaws are starting to show. I think some of the alignment issues is not just quality control, but with how poorly the OTA was packaged. My first unit had dents in the tube and the OTA had obviously rotated during shipping and smashed the focuser even though the outside of the box was mostly fine. My second unit had no damage to the OTA but the accessories box was falling apart. The packaging foam appears to be more suitable for the Quattro 200P, but the 150P has room to shift and knock stuff out of alignment.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

This is really weird re the focuser... Some mention getting a rail one, others the same as mine (including in Europe!). And the SW page show the rail focuser. I wonder if they're mixing them... Or shrinkflation

[@rmuhlack]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek your focuser also looks the same as on my 200PDS (I am in Australia). I am thinking of upgrading to a Moonlite

[@naveenmalik8531]

I tried the tape on the focuser and it works great, but I wasn't having great luck on the draw tube. I ended up using the compression ring as a template and cut a circle out of some solid shelf liner. This provides a nice tight fit that doesn't interfere with the function of the focuser. Thanks for the inspiration!

[@AF29007]

Having tried a collimation cap, laser, etc. I eventually gave up and got the Catseye XLKP autocollimator kit for my R200SS. Requires center-spotting the primary mirror, but was easy enough. Best collimation system I have ever used, worked perfectly.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I never had to collimate my R200SS! I just sent it back to Vixen and they recollimated it under warranty :)

[@AF29007]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek I'd have done that if I wasn't in western australia!

[@richardshagam8608]

I purchased an SVBONY collimation laser, but I found that it was out of alignment. The test is to put in the focuser and spin it in the mount. If the laser beam projected on the primary wobbles in a circle, it is out of alignment. If it stays pointed at a fixed point (not necessarily the PM center) the laser alignment is good. I was able to align mine, but it required breaking through seals over the three alignment grub screws. It is tricky to do the alignment, and is now something that must be checked every time before performing a collimation.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yes that's something else! Mine is properly aligned fortunately

[@bbasiaga]

I'm a visual newt guy. I think the tool youbare missing is a sight tube, which would have caught the rotation and axial position error. Lasers are great for focuser and primary alignment. But if i were to recccomend one set of collimation tools it would be the Cats Eye sight tube, Cheshire and autocollimator.

[@deep_space_dave]

Glad you figured it out Cuiv! Isn't part of the fun is to get super frustrated to the point of almost giving up then Eureka, problem solved, all worth it 🙂 Thanks for the video! Clear Skies!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks Dave as always!

[@DrGkill777]

The primary mirror is free in it's cell and is made to seat on it's contact points with gravity because our scopes always point above the horizon. So dead flat on a surface, you can be sure the primary is off and will not be setup properly. Then I advise the use of an autocollimator such as Cat's eye collimator. It literally changed my life, especially for remote users which have to collimate on the field.

[@JVRost]

I also had a light leak in the focuser area on the GSO 150/600, I wrap it with a velvet rag in the area of ​​the focuser entrance to the flange, besides, I put a round cookie tin box on the main mirror, refused the standard telescope cover, replacing it with the same box, as on the main mirror, now I can easily shoot darks without removing the camera from the telescope.

[@glennledrew8347]

Congratulations on persevering! It seems you learned a lot, and the experience will make future collimation jobs go more quickly. Fast Newts are indeed a finicky little beast to tame. Collimation tolerances tighten up geometrically as f/ratio decreases. After doing many collimations of Newts while working in an astro store, a job like this got to be doable in 10 minutes or less.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks Glenn!

[@mmchapter2834]

I have a US version and the focuser looks the same as mine other than the addition of a finger tensioning screw instead of a grub screw on the focuser rod. One little improvement I did was drill and tap a hole in the top of the focuser body opposite of the adjustment knobs and treaded in a nylon bolt to act as a draw tube lock. The bolt has a large enough head that it can be tightened and loosened with just your fingers and it being nylon it won't mar the tube. Anyway, Love the vids, love the channel, good luck and CS!

[@ShevillMathers]

So many folks do not realise that there are different requirements for a long focus and a short fast Newtonian. There are two separate issues that folks also misunderstand, there is mechanical alignment of the components and optical collimation, two separate issues. In a fast Newtonian optical system, the secondary elliptical flat is placed closer to the main mirror and further away from the mechanical centre the scope tube, which is not required in a standard f/8 or more optical system. I think this is where you had many issues because the manufacturer had not taken this secondary offset into account and allowing mechanical adjustments to be made during mechanical alignment. For over 60 years I have built all my Newtonian telescopes, including the optical components, so these are the design requirements many of us in the ATM club many, many years ago before mass production of low cost scopes became available. All basic stuff back then and it is stuff most folks are unaware of. We also knew how to test our mirrors and flats before they went into a tube assembly etc. unless the fundamentals are first met, one is in for a frustrating ride. This has made quality refractors so attractive for many just starting out. Greetings from the Southern Cross Observatory-Tasmania 42 South. There are many excellent articles on Newtonian alignment and collimation with a Google search-takes a little time to read and understand the processes involved, but a ‘must’ before twiddling knobs hoping it will work. Then a night of steady seeing with a 5th magnitude star for the final collimation tweak.

[@rocketcityastro]

Too check secondary mirror and draw tube alignment put a piece of paper in front of the primary. This will allow you to see the secondary much better it should be aligned with draw tube or you will have vignetting. If the image circle hitting the secondary is to big then you should move the primary so that the secondary remains lined up with draw tube. It seems like sky watcher is have quite the accuracy problem in manufacturing.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks!

[@AstroDork]

Great guide. Wish I had seen it when I bought my Quattro 200 2 or 3 years ago. Mine needed those mods plus a secondary mirror heater which I did in true ghetto style. Loving your work as always Cuiv (Y)

[@vastrop345]

Yes, it can be a pain. It is the same configuration on the Vixen R200SS: on fast newtonians, the optical center of the secondary is not at the physical center. If your laser hits the physical center and you adjust it to come back to the center you won't reflect the primary fully. To get an acceptable result with a laser hitting the optical center and going back where it should, the primary needs to be tilted towards the focuser. Skywatcher does mention that offset in its documentation but doesn't provide nulmerical information. Vixen provides a template that you can print and use to mark your secondary. What surprised me on the Vixen R200SS was the extent of that tilt and the mistake I made for a while was not to tilt enough...

[@EdDarter]

The Quatros are renown for being difficult to collimate due to the fast f ratio. Might be an idea to paint the last few cm of the outside of the focus tube black, where it pokes in to the OTA. You currently have a big silver tube reflecting light all over the place 😊 same applies for the sides of the primary and secondary mirrors. Oh and a set of 'bobs knobs' to replace those 3 adjustment allen screws on the secondary!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I haven't had great experiences with Bob's Knobs on SCTs, so I'll probably stick to the Allen screws for now!

[@A0111.]

- Once I collimated my Ritchey-Chrétien telescope. - How ? - Accidentally.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Mwah ahahaha yessssss!

[@A0111.]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek... but then my camera died. Seriously ;)

[@KurtVW]

@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks for digging into the more in-depth secondary collimation steps, I had read things about this process, but having it described really helped me get my head around what you're trying to accomplish and how to do it. I have a cheapo GSO that used to be my photo telescope, and while it was never as bad as your Skywatcher, it was never great. Later I bought a high end 8inch from Teleskop service in Germany and while they certify everything on their end, since it ships with the primary removed from the tube I've always wanted to verify that everything is in there 100% aligned, and now I have a better idea how to do it. Your suffering is my gain!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Good luck! And suffering so you have a slightly better time at it is my purpose :D

[@The_Vinceable]

@CuivTheLazyGeek thanks so much for taking us on the journey. I am looking at getting this exact scope myself or one of the variants of the GSO 6" newts like this one. The one availabile to me had a nice looking focuser with brass compression tubes rather than the 3 bare screws that may mar whatever is connected to them. However i wonder if flocking the tube would also mitigate the internal reflection issue you had

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yes flocking and other things should definitely help!

[@pleyenterprise]

That sounds like fun. I have a 250P Flex Skywatcher. I got it on sale last Christmas. So far, I used it only for visual astrometry without doing any collimation while I am playing with the C6 Hyperstar. I'd like to know if I can turn it into an Astrophotography rig for bright object without tracking?

[@astroslap]

In case you still have that weird ring artifact, my best bet is that either one of your mirrors in pinched/pushed too hard or has a defect. You can turn off mount and see if the artifact is sharper, then it would be parasitic light, i think and hope. I had a weird issue with temperature difference and the springs on the primary mirror expanding differently.

[@mikemccann8822]

Yes, the trial and tribulations of Newtonians and their focusers. I have a 8” powernewt (Boren-Simon) with a moonlight focuser and did most of what you did. I systematically placed lights around the focuser and primary mirror. The primary mirror ended up like it was wearing a black diaper 😂. Cool! You’re having fun.

[@rogerbeswick1405]

Hi Cuiv, Welcome to the stone age. My first big telescope was a Skywatcher 300P which had all the same problems and there used to be several videos here on how to do what you did. They are probably in black and white. The good news is that once you have it right it doesn't move much. If the focuser is still the same there is a problem with the flat on the focuser tube - it was never flat or square or level. You need to take a diamond polisher and rub it flat then it runs smooth and easily (again several vids here on it). However after many years I still have it and get great results if I can tear myself away from my C8.

[@rogerbeswick1405]

Sorry 200P now Explorer

[@marvinwhisman3333]

Thanks for taking the time on all of your videos to go back though and add clarification notes. Those really help. I know it takes a lot of extra time putting those comments in to do a finished video but the efforts are much appreciated. Which of your mounts did you put this scope on for testing?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks so much Marvin!! I used the CEM60 for this :-)

[@scarman123]

I own a Quattro 250p and I feel your pain. My Farpoint collimating cheshire and laser don’t see eye to eye… so to speak. It’s been very frustrating.

[@philleng480]

I use tape on the focuser around the base, and then tinfoil around the drawtube and that's a Moonlite focuser. I agree the shower cap idea is not good enough despite many people using them, just not dark enough. 2 thicknesses of camping mat then duct tape over the top.

[@samshornvibes]

The spider vane unit from Backyard Universe is an incredible improvement over the original setup. It also holds collimation indefinitely on my 130pds. Well worth doing, imo.

[@MrZizilis]

Yeap, highly recommended (this was the very first upgrade that I did on my 150p quattro)

[@WhittleAstro]

Yup, just fitted one to along with the primary mirror mask and flocking

[@tomatomaeg]

@@WhittleAstro these are the exact things im going to do for my 150p in the coming week.

[@WhittleAstro]

@@tomatomaeg I’m also using chalkboard black paint around the edge of the secondary. Basically remove all the bits that can reflect something! I also used a black sharpie on the focus tube to make it black and flocked as close as I could to where the focuser comes into the tube to stop light leaks.

[@tomatomaeg]

@@WhittleAstro i got some "SL-94" extra matte paint / varnish to dim shiny stuff down. Some self adhesive velour will be left over after the tube is lined for other parts.

[@pm-ec1fc]

In photography, when people want to get rid of light leakage a self adhesive baize/velour film is used... I think the argument would be that the insulating tape still can reflect light at high angles (that is why it look shanny at particular angles).

[@Pescadoraficionado]

Hola Cuiv! Tengo un telescopio Newtoniano de 8" marca GSO, es muy buen equipo pero tenía el mismo problema que tú, hice lo mismo, cubrí con cinta aislante todas las ranuras, sin embargo, el problema persistía, entonces forre el interior del tubo con material negro mate (flock) y mejoró, pero se notaba ese anillo todavía. Finalmente opté por forrar el interior del enfocador y parece que el problema se disipó. No he tenido noches despejadas acá en México para probarlo. Parece que voy tener buen clima los próximos días, para poder verificar el correcto funcionamiento. Saludos and clear sky's.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks for the tip!

[@JVRost]

Almost a year has passed since the release of this video... I was shooting on a GSO 150/600, and then a friend gave me a Skywatcher Quattro 200/800 for temporary use - hello halos and circles))) Five sessions in the basket, fighting leaks, creating clever masks for the focuser, although here it is converted to bearings, but it flows around the world like a leaky roof of an old hayloft and I forgot about this video... well, of course, check the collimation, because according to the classics it works and it lulled my vigilance, but in vain. Tomorrow we will begin (not using traditional methods to check and set everything according to science according to the method I have tested, using a guide camera.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Hahaha it's going to be a battle, good luck with it!!

[@JVRost]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek )) All that remains is to smile, because seriously it’s impossible, seriously then it would be necessary to either catch the chief engineer of Skywatcher for torture or put on a live show - a Flying Telescope from the third floor.

[@jonathanr2830]

Excellent cost-effective tips and tweeks. Love the "ghetto" approach to victory. Enjoyed seeing the images that you and this humble rig achieved. Great learning process that highlights the important fine points. Thank you!

[@bobbymckenzie3202]

Thanks Cuiv, ..... follow this man NOW

[@tubedude54]

I had to laugh at your solution to the light leaks! LOL I was in the garage just 3 days ago and took the cover off my old 6" newt and peered down the tube and saw at least a dozen holes letting light in from the sides of the tube! Over the years I had drilled and drilled holes adding this or that gadget and never covered the holes when I removed the stuff. So I grabbed some electrical tape and started snipping off pieces and putting them over the holes and it works but looks like heck! LOL This is the scope I mentioned in a post to you that I have flocking coming off the inside of the tube. Really think I might recondition the tube this summer and put it in a trough and fill it with paint thinner and try and get the flocking out and then seal the holes I don't need with JB Weld and then fill the trough with flat black and coat the inside and then repaint the outside with some other color and make it look nice again.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Good Luck with that project, it sounds like fun :p

[@tubedude54]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek Actually it sounds like a pain... something for you to think about since you're talking about flocking a scope. This scope has had the flocking in it over 40 yrs and you can see edges lifting up all over the inside where the glue has dried and come loose.

[@martrich1098]

My first scope (many years ago) was a 200mm Newt. I loved it for being a big light bucket but it certainly wasn't an astrograph and I would need to be dragged kicking and screaming to use another for astrophotography now. You must have the patience of a saint ;)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Hahaha I know the feeling, I might still just get annoyed with it :-)

[@PtiteSerra]

Hi Cuiv, same with my Quattro 8"... The collimation drove me crazy for days... As this was my first Newton, I thought I was doing something wrong... I ended up taking it to a professional who realized the secondary was also too far away from the primary too. They told me they spent hours struggling with it and I believe them! Clearly Skywatcher needs to do a better job with these tubes...

[@vicamaral]

Its called stray light leak, also silver color draw tube is not good remove it and powder coat mate black, ore paint matte black , and instead of the black tape, i used flocking paper inside the draw tube hosing so its 1mm thick perfect to fill the open spaces between draw tube and housing, remove the main mirror paint the edges and the back with matte black paint, and install heave duty springs and do the same to secondary mirror, and do the hole tube with flocking paper, and paint any chrome ore silver screws that inside the tube, you know what color to use now. the concenter eyepiece is very good to get your secondary mirror perfectly aligned with the focuser and keep it simple.

[@davidhoskin6144]

I had the same experience with my 150mm f5 Celestron Omni XLT150. The secondary was completely out of alignment!

[@mschmalenbach]

Thanks so much for this Cuiv - I’ll be doing the same with my Sky Watcher 130pds.

[@martinlacey5985]

You asked for content ideas - here's one I would find helpful: A comparison of "off the shelf EAA" rigs (including expectations of the upcoming ZWO Seestar) v your self assembled Skywatcher 50ED rig. A shoot out if you will. Hoping this sparks your creative juices!

[@cjmenagh882]

Great video and lots of work. Are you going to flat black paint the focuser draw tube?

[@MrZizilis]

Just did this in mine...flat black powder coating (electrostatic painting). Result is excellent :)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I'll probably start with flocking paper!

[@redabdab]

Hmm.. I’ve never really mastered reflectors. I do own an SCT, but collimation makes me anxious (as I completely messed up my old LX-90 when attempting collimation 😬 so I’m now a bit phobic about it with my new Edge). I prefer my APO to be honest. You did great on this scope tho - well done (you masochist 😂)! Great to meet you this week Cuiv 👍

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yeah I completely understand the feeling Stuart! That's why I went with the R200SS before as this one didn't require collimation!

[@andyrawlins]

Ha ha. Welcome to the world of secondary mirror collimation! You were very lucky to have avoided that with your Vixen. It is a right pain but you should only need to do it once. Also, my understanding is that if the secondary is out, all you do is lose a bit of light/resolution. It shouldn't affect star shapes etc. I think... btw I still see the donut on the second image though it is much weaker - the second image is rotated 180 degrees - rotate it and its still visible. Its also secondary mirror shaped - sort of - I wonder if that is significant? Are the edges of the mirror blackened?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep much weaker and also different shape - I've imaged since and it's now easy to deal with. The edges of the mirror are painted, but I'll put darker paint on them!

[@lindamuvic8110]

Thanks, really good demo with a Newtonian, would love to see the camera setup, and outside use this setup.

[@ssrattus]

Thanks Cuiv for the insights!

[@Klyress]

Thank you Cuiv, it's inspiring to overcome the ring.

[@MikeGentry]

This reminds me of when I tried to collimate my Celestron C8-N and I'm still not sure I got it perfect. What a challenge, I was impressed at how far off this scope was right out of the box. I was afraid I was going to break the center screw on mine it was so tight.

[@LeonHulstroem]

You should have started with alignment of the secondary with your focus tube. Concenter is your tool for that. Then laser for main roughly alignment and Cheshire for the rest… You might have to realign more the once… 8” (200mm) custom Quattro, f4 steel track focuser and Karl Zambuto mirrors, custom diy spider 😘😘

[@WhittleAstro]

Maybe another thing in the spirit of keeping things cheap… a DIY electronic collimator! Guide cam and meteor lens down the focus tube with sharp cap

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Oh DIY electronic collimator is a good idea!

[@marek8ball]

Cuiv that internal reflection could be from inside of tube. Go buy flocking paper, and glue it inside of tube. Check a internet about flocking newts. It's a dramatic increase in contrast and reduction in reflections.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks I will likely to!

[@michaelbibby8636]

How are the US Skywatcher focuser's different? Here in Australia they are the same as yours. If your going to square the focuser tube you may as well take that opportunity to flock the OTA (because you'll need to take out the secondary to do both). Also, you can get after market spider veins which are slightly thicker and more durable if ever they become a problem.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yeah I'll likely spring for the after market spider, the default one is indeed pretty bad...

[@astroberg4774]

Cuiv, i have a video suggestion. How to combine 2 sets of imaging data from 2 different focal lengths?

[@LM-ek2hb]

This was FUN! What a great idea! Plus it's also an inspiration for anyone who has a ~$500 budget, but really want's to get into the hobby. I would really like to see more of this concept that you stumbled upon. Maybe next could be a department store scope or maybe a craigslist purchase. This is actually a little better than those 'I bought a junk car, will it start' videos :)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Oh that's a great idea!

[@naegeleh]

Thanks a lot for your great video! Made the same experience with my skywatcher quattro 300/1200. I was only able to collimate this monster after moving the secondary mirror a way in, exactly as you did it!! Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (in addition I used the Ocal). Herbert

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Great to hear similar experiences!

[@-Jeremiah-]

Cuiv, not that I’m an expert but you asked our opinions… my recommendation would be to do things that make imaging easier/better. That way you’re less likely to get frustrated and sell all your gear.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Good point!!

[@pedrobento5821]

Hello! How do I know this story. I don't have that telescope, but I have an old Meade Schmidt Newton 8" f/4. Very complicated to collimate. I changed the Focuser (I now have a Omegon low profile). I recently noticed the same defect you mentioned (I couldn't see one of the supports of the primary mirror). I managed to fix it, but there is still a very small deviation. This is because, as happened to you, I couldn't make the normal collimation, keeping the 3 supports visible in the collimation cap. So that means the secondary mirror will not be properly aligned.? .. I'll have to double check! Thanks for some more great tips. I wait for the video about focuser tilt. But I wanted to ask you something. If I put a reducer ring on the primary, it will cover the 3 supports. Doesn't this prevent you from checking that the secondary is well centered? Or it is not a problem?

[@sunhuatom]

this OTA is extremely popular in China, for modification! People would spend several times the original cost to upgrade it. Some of them literally only kept the original mirrors.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Hahaha I'm not surprised!! There must be companies rebuilding the scope from scratch and selling it no?

[@sunhuatom]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek yes,there are some people selling this kind of service. Good modified ones could sell up to 3times original price, makes me rather buying something like sharpstar 130f2.8 Newtonian.

[@sunhuatom]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek I think mostly due it used good main mirrors, parabolic instead of spherical

[@rocketcityastro]

This is why i spent 1800$ for my SharpStar 130mm imaging newtonian. With hyperbolic mirror, integrated corrector, 44mm imaging circle, Low profile focuser with tilt adjustment, and light weight carbon fiber tube. And it's F2.8 with no light leak issues.

[@rocketcityastro]

Forgot the Miso black flocking

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep, and why I had gotten the R200SS before, a Newt that didn't require collimation!

[@desbarry8414]

Cuive, how about an in depth comparison of Sharpcap Pro Live Stacking from a white zone, and full comparison of the raw frames vrs the on the fly stacking?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Good idea!

[@erikswenson2659]

I don't see why, for collimation purposes or reflection issues, it would be important to change the distance from secondary to primary. Assuming all the angles are aligned and the secondary is properly centered in the main tube and on the focussing tube, if you don't see the whole primary, the missing light from the primary is just being sent back out the open end of the telescope. You are losing a little of the collected light, but you also avoid diffraction around the primary clips and isn't the edge of the primary where the primary is most likely to be mishapen? Seems like it would be much more important to adjust the secondary to be centered on the focus tube. Depending on the placement of the focus tube and the size of the secondary, it may well be impossible to properly colliminate the telescope and see the entire primary.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

My guess is the light gets diffused within the non-reflective volume of the secondary, behind the reflective surface

[@Stephenrip]

fwiw - concerning light leakage from around the eyepiece holder. Probably lots of ways to solve the issue, this is one of them. Hope this helps. 1. I used simple cotton to tuck down in between the eyepiece holder extension tube and the eyepiece holder body . . . from underneath. I had to remove the eyepiece holder. About a half-inch of cotton worked nicely, just had to avoid putting the cotton where it could get caught up in the cranking mechanism. Once the cotton is inserted, the eyepiece holder shaft slides smoothly up and down without moving the cotton. Zero light leakage and no unsightly, messy black tape!! 2. I used 1/8"X1/8" sticky-backed foam insulation tape around the bottom edges of the focuser. It mashes flat and firm when the screws are tightened down. Zero light leakage and no unsightly, messy black tape!! 3. Shame on you! You simply MUST flock your telescopes!! No if's, and's or butt plugs about it!! 4. Btw, I call it a "bonnet" and not a "butt plug". HA!!

[@hallor100]

Thanks for the video! I got 2" quatro cc on 10" orion and it gives me weird rings like that on aps-c (and defocused start at corners). I thought those were lens reflections and too small CC (because spent hours trying to collimate the thing) and gave up trying to make those look good (especially that I use it mostly for EAA on outreach), but now with this vid.. seems I have more colimation to do after all.. yay. Not that I can use it for more than EAA because 3" focuser it came with is too weak to move my mono camera setup (it either slips or EAF has not enough power to move it depending on how tight screws are)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Good luck!

[@Deep_Astro]

Cuiv there is one more place you can add electric tape to avoid stray light with these scopes, on that lateral line where the metal was glued to form the tube basically that run across all the scope, on my telescope i had straylight even from there. Nice and informative video btw 👏

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you!! I've added that!

[@ziggyfrnds]

So you were spoilt by the awesome Vixen newtonian :D I've actually had 3 newtonians at different times and they were far from perfect always some issues with collimation or focuser (comes with the price tag I guess) or both. The last one I had (a GSO branded one) would lose collimation over the course of the night...it was horrible. Eventually I learnt that the simplest tools are the best for collimation and I got myself a rigel systems collimation cap (like the one you 3d printed but with reflective surface on the inside), it's not as accurate as laser or cheshire but it doesn't mislead you like they do. I can have my latest newtonian properly collimated very quickly now. Focuser is still problematic though :P

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep the Vixen was so nice and trouble free!!

[@Fossbear]

I have the 150 PDS- Cheap thing i also did was coating the inside of the tube with black Velour "Foil" - it is really black now

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I'll do that!

[@gregengland7355]

Another great video Cuiv, my version has the upgraded focuser and out of the box has produced very good results without to much alteration on my part. One thing I have noticed is flaring around bright stars in a tri pattern. This distracts from the star spikes which I like when it comes to star clusters. This may be due to the coma corrector or my Antlia filters but I haven't noticed this on my other scopes with these filters so the coma corrector is likely to blame, will test next clear night I get. CS Greg

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks Greg! I'm jealous of that focuser you have! The flaring is due to mirror clips - I'll soon receive and install a mirror mask to deal with that!

[@gregengland7355]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek Awesome look forward to seeing that fix, saved me some guess work, thanks mate :)

[@kosmojarocho]

New subscriber here! I just discovered your channel: it's amazing! Would you recommend the Skywatcher 150 pds over the Quattro? I'm a novice, I own a 102mm refractor but I would like to go a bit deeper on AP. Greetings from Mexico!

[@calvinfarrow1720]

Pimp it out! I know it’s always my goal to make any scope I purchase better.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

It's going to happen :D

[@fabriziocanale9768]

Sorry but would it be possible to have the file for 3d printing the dew shield and the butt jug? My Newtonian 8” is causing me some troubles too. Thanks, Fabrizio

[@robertw1871]

I feel for you, it’s fun getting things to work sometimes… I’d have to replace that focuser though… I decided to battle with an RC this galaxy season, might be even more fun than that haha… It is rewarding when you finally get them working.

[@mathersdavid5113]

Wouldn't you need to move the secondary AWAY from the primary, so as to intercept a smaller light cone?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That would be nice, but then it wouldn't be centered under the focuser tube!

[@juliobynight2495]

Hi Cuiv, juste une hypothèse.. concerning your oval effects on the subs, could the reflexions come from the focuser's tube, external coating, and the four non painted washers joining the spyder's arms ? Is it completly out, and non relevent, in focus ? If not, paint it black.. avec un Stabylo noir mat.. maybe ? I enjoy your videos, many of them tought me express lanes to this hobby ! thanks ;)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Merci Julio! Yep, my next steps will be that!

[@Laurent_BARTHELEMY]

Pour moins cher que OCAL, tu peux utiliser ta camera + la mire de sharpcap et/ou une petit soft appélé AlsCollimationAid

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Je vais me renseigner, merci!!

[@sjpp71]

That focuser looks exactly like the typical Skywatcher Crayford, I wonder how is this one different than in the scopes sold in USA?

[@Tony-Elliott]

Excellent video Cuiv will be very interested in seeing how good you can make this scope

[@spookysandwich1355]

currently using 150-600mm sigma lens with my HEQ5pro so hoping to get the 150p , it would be my 1st ever telescope , now after watching this im super scared to get one 😬as a beginner 1st proper telescope , really worried id mess something up and that noone is around to help

[@MrBengourben]

In the middle of trying to collimate a 6" gso rc... I feel your pain!! But wouldn't moving the secondary in or out change the focal length?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

It shouldn't since the secondary is completely flat! The story is different with an SCT!

[@chuggy9531]

Can you get the other focus unit from America to replace the one it came with?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I wish! I will soldier on with this for now!