Making PCBs With lasers

[@xdevs23]

"While a bit unorthodox, I've found that this worked very well for me." - Yes! Please never shy away from doing things differently than everyone else. That's how we get innovation.

[@allnicksweretaken]

Cool video! About the soldering, don't put the solder on to the iron and then on to the pin and pcb pad. This will create a weak solder joint. Instead heat the pin and the pad at the same time, apply the solder from the opposite side of the pin.

[@big_whopper]

Came to the comments to say the same thing

[@sakul1627]

0:36 Fusion actually has an entire section dedicated to the design of PCBs.

[@Borgedesigns]

damm you think I would have like, googled that, at least once right. Live and learn I guess.

[@alanwood3597]

@@Borgedesigns Fusion Electrical is very good but there is a learning curve. It outputs a full manufacturing data package. The gerber files can be imported into FlatCAM and the board can be isolation routed on a milling machine. I wonder if the laser would cut the copper as an alternative.

[@pastasuta]

4:08 forbidden gatorade

[@k1ngjulien_]

lol how long has that been there?? I've never noticed it😂

[@LeeroyJenkins0G]

Autodesk bought eaglecad and incorporated into fusion 360 years and years ago. You can also export the mask for the etching from it. You took the extremely long way around 😂🤣 but… great effort for your first time.

[@alexstone691]

Although the pcb is quite simple, you should design the pcb so that least copper is etched, you basically removed 90% of the copper

[@SianaGearz]

It depends on how long you want the etchant to last. If you only do one PCB every 2 years you might not even care.

[@HairyStuntWaffle]

@@SianaGearz true but having a large ground plane can help with other things as well, cooling for example.

[@cnc-enthusiast]

@@HairyStuntWaffle also he had to lase away more material, using more time and energy

[@Rozbujnik_Rumcajs]

Faster etching results in sharper traces. So even when you don't care about etching solution, there is a benefit to removing the smallest amount of copper possible

[@kitizz548]

Thanks for another inspiring video! Apologies if there are other comments suggesting this, but I’ve found the easiest way to cut most PCB blanks is to put deep scores on both sides, clamp it well, then snap it. Creates waaaay less glass fibre dust which I love ☺️

[@deathreus]

The sepia filter that turned on when you said crystals was chef's kiss

[@ShufflinZombie]

What an awesome video. So cool to see some of your other tools being used to create this.

[@swolebro]

A bed-slinger 3D printer also works well as an agitator. You cobble together some G-code to sling the bed back & forth, then copy and paste it for a million repetitions. Plus you can keep the bed warmed up a little bit to help the chemical reaction go faster.

[@TheRailroad99]

That's actually an incredibly clever re-use. Almost like they were made for this ;)

[@VencaCho]

Awesome! A thought occured to me when I watched you vid - what I do to make my drill holes super nice and centered is to just design a small hole in the copper pad (0.2-0.4 mm), instead of the size of the intended hole (usually 0.8-1.0mm). That way it can nicely catch the tip of the drill bit and center it. Drilling by hand is then doable. Drilling using a drill press is a piece of cake.

[@VoidLinkLabs]

I would never have thought of doing this for DIY PCB's, it came out beautifully! Also nice to see all the tools which you've made being used.

[@JohnEdwa]

Your main issue with the soldering is yanking the iron away immediately. Put a tiny bit of solder on the tip of the iron to help heat transfer, put that against both the pin and the PCB pad, wait a second for them both to heat up, put the solder to the other side of the pin until it melts, remove the solder and wait a second, and only then remove the iron.

[@SianaGearz]

Kicad is pretty good since you have 3D view with components. It interacts with mechanical CAD software via STEP files both ways if need be.

[@Gippetos]

I use Kicad, export as Dxf and use that in Lightburn to generate gcode for the laser.

[@amoose136]

For the PCB etching container I’d recommend something made of polypropylene if you’re going to use plastic. It’s what those chemical squeeze wash bottles are made of and few solvents will attack it. As always, check the chemical resistance charts first. For ammonium persulphate it should be resistant up to 60C.

[@hoodiekid8439]

if this is your first try and it works that's a win

[@foxtrot000]

You’re definitely one of my favourite maker channels! Keep it up❤

[@badcompany9017]

I would love to see a tutorial making pcb’s with the LP4. Thanks for the great content!

[@jamescollier2049]

god you are so inspirational and creative

[@BiglyWeenis]

Love this! I messed around with making PCBs for weeks, trying to get toner transfer, then UV photoresist, and it was always janky and inconsistent. I wish I had one of those lasers, I think it might be the best diy route. Aligning the traces with the drilled holes was always a challenge, and I think the laser would help that.

[@TheRailroad99]

Kind of cool. There are so many different ways of etching PCBs. Lasering is one I haven't heard yet. I have tried a few but IMHO its not really worth it anymore. 10-20 years ago prototype PCBs were rather expensive, 100$ or even more for a few boards. But now with JLC, PCBWAY and similar services, its very cheap and also quite fast. Like less then 10 bucks including shipping to Europe from China. The quality is professional level, 4,6,8 layer boards are not an issue, they sometimes even make free/cheap stencils. So I see very very little use of making them yourself in 2024.

[@user-xb8sq3xk7x]

Shit dude that came out really nice

[@Scrogan]

Very nice. I also use a laser for PCBs. My workflow involves KiCAD, which I highly recommend. By drawing out your schematic in eeschema, it defines your netlist and ensures you don’t make any incorrect connections when laying out the board in pcbnew. You can then export a 3D model of your circuit board, and various 2D formats. I have a diode laser with poor resolution, so I’m using a post-processing script on the SVG to compensate for laser thickness and unify all the SVG objects, then I use lightburn’s offset fill to prevent any artefacts. I use a black spray lacquer instead of a paint, because the fumes aren’t as bad and it wipes off easily with just some isopropyl alcohol. For etching, I just put the board in a container sitting on my ender 3 bed and set its temperature to 60. I’ve written some g-code that just moves the bed back and forth for 30 minutes or so, the agitation plus heat means my etches are done in half that. Though I use ferric chloride (Bunnings HCl + nails) so YMMV. I’m also working on automatic drilling, using KiCAD’s outputted drill file. The ender 3 was fine to bolt a laser to, but was too flexible for a drill even after I added tie-rods, so I’m in the process of swapping everything over to a 2nd hand snapmaker original. I need to make a new laser driver so my 5W diode laser can run off the snapmaker’s 24V supply. I wrote a Python script that takes the drill file and outputs a g-code file, and even has support for slot holes like you get on DC jacks and basically nothing else. As for solder-mask, it’s not trivial. I tried using heat-resistant spray paints, but they just wipe off with the iron unless you bake them. I think the only method that will work is to use a resin, like UV-cure soldermask. But getting it thin enough that it’s easy to burn off without roasting the copper or FR4 underneath is tough. So I built myself a spin-coater for applying a thin coating of UV-cure soldermask to any oddly shaped board, using a brushed motor and a 3D printed 4-jaw chuck made with threaded-rod. The firmware on my custom motor driver doesn’t work because my programming ability is trash. I’ll probably add a differential amp for measuring the output current directly, low-side current measurement with PWM synchronous readings isn’t working for me I guess.

[@king_james_official]

could you explain why the traces didn't wipe off after getting lit by a laser? is the spraypaint easier to dissolve after exposure?

[@Scrogan]

@@king_james_official so the laser isn’t powerful to burn through the copper itself, at least not at that speed. It was solely being used to burn through the layer of spray-paint, after which the residue of this paint is wiped off with a damp cloth. The copper that doesn’t have spray-paint on it is exposed to the etchant solution and is dissolved, while the copper with paint still on it is protected from etching. When the remaining paint is dissolved in acetone, only the copper that wasn’t dissolved by the etching solution is left behind.

[@king_james_official]

@@Scrogan oh yeah i know that it's only burning the spraypaint. so the thing he sprayed on after the laser run was just water? i got confused and thought it's paint solvent

[@Scrogan]

@@king_james_official I found water worked fine to wash off the debris, but it was better after running two passes of the laser. You get a fine sooty layer that a dry paper towel isn’t quite enough to get rid of. I think there’s a bit of tar in the debris too, maybe a mild solvent would help wipe it off.

[@king_james_official]

@@Scrogan thanks a lot

[@SpencerPaire]

Wow! This really makes me want to get a laser! One of the big reasons I don't make many of my planned electronics projects is the cost and timeline of getting PCBs (even from PCBway.) One mistake can turn into $30 and another week! But something like this means a PCB can be turned around in one day 😮.

[@jpcarvajal4930]

I love that almost all of your tools that U used on this video are 3d printed

[@peter360adventures9]

Awesome. I would tin the tracks before soldering.

[@DerUltrazauberer]

You can use your 3D printer (bed slinger) for etching. It also heats your etchant to your desired temperature. Works really well. I have a klipper script for my ender 3 which moves the bed back and forth.

[@DM-fz3ly]

is this klipper script available somewhere?

[@DerUltrazauberer]

@@DM-fz3ly hmm, I can't find any linke anymore but here's the macro from my config: [gcode_macro etch] gcode: {% set bed_temp = params.TEMPERATURE|default(45)|float %} {% set cycle_count = params.CYCLES|default(255)|int %} # 30 cycles = 106s -> 255 cycles = 900s M118 Etch started { cycle_count } @ { bed_temp } G91 ;Relative mode M118 Heating to { bed_temp } M190 S{bed_temp} ;Heat bed M118 Cycling { cycle_count } times {% for cycle in range(cycle_count) %} G4 P1000 ; delay 1 second M118 cycle {cycle+1}/{cycle_count} G1 Y-20 G4 P1000 ; delay 1 second G1 Y20 {% endfor %} M118 Disabling Bed M140 S0 M118 Etch Completed

[@jstro-hobbytech]

very cool brother. i have a ton of copper clad and a laser along a bunch of overpriced liquid tin and such.

[@BurnabyAlex]

for the dodgy solder joint on the 3 pin header... try reheating that pin with a little bit of flux... electronic shops will sell a flux pen so you can add a small dab of no-clean flux (no clean flux doesn't need to be washed away after with water) For the coating, you could always use a spray on conformal coating, electronic shops will have this in a spray can with names like MG Chemicals.

[@gabrieldolce889]

For your through-hole terminal connectors, make sure to design around your board layers. Because the drilled holes aren’t lined with copper, the top and bottom layers are electrically separate. You could get around this by putting your traces on the bottom of the board where the pins stick out. Cool manufacturing method tho!

[@thedabblingwarlock]

Oh nice. Looking forward to more. I've thought about looking into what it would take to make custom boards at home, but every time I start, I scare myself off.

[@alexmayer8877]

Eagle is part of fusion

[@thatonesnowboarde]

you can realign it in software and then put the holes in it with the laser itself .. with that laser you probably can go right through the copper and etch the copper away no chemicals needed

[@mrfizzvfx7051]

Love the vid, When you design machines , ( sketch wise) do you mainly use loft to cap parts ? I’ve been designing some builds but I can’t figure it out

[@wizrom3046]

Ferric chloride is a far better etchant. Especially if you heat it up to warm coffee temp. Polypropylene chinese food containers work great and have a nice flat bottom so you only need a few mm depth of etchant. And you dont need a swisher machine because it will etch in 2 or 3 minutes of hand swishing.

[@JohnHartono]

Fiber laser can etch the copper off, so you can save the chemical etching part. But the speed, power, and how many pass need to be tested for your laser machine.

[@user-cg3em4cw4f]

I would make an enclosure for the laser. If you can see the dot, the shield isn't doing enough to block it as far as I know.

[@Chrisrkooz]

Your soldering is O.K., I have definitely seen worse. As a general tip, I would clean your soldering iron tip, 'wet' the tip with a small bit of solder, hold the soldered part of the iron on to the part you will be soldering, then feed the solder wire into the PART itself, rather than the iron. I work in manufacturing and these are some of the tips we use to ensure high quality. The reason you want to feed the solder wire into the part is because of the flux within the wire. If you feed it into the soldering iron, the flux essentially burns off very quickly. Flux is very important to ensure a proper connection. Well done with the project. I am very jealous you have access to DIY circuit boards now :)

[@waldobean7534]

I like your videos. It's in my scope of interest, captivating enough for my ADHD brain and short enough that my ADHD brain can't feel board. Thanks

[@joshcarter-com]

Dude...Fusion has Eagle embedded in it these days. Whole parts library, schematic editor, PCB layout, everything. Integrates perfectly with your mechanical designs, too. It's one of the most compelling features of Fusion. It takes a little learning (afternoon of watching videos and futzing with it) but it's reasonably easy to use. Also: that laser is NICE! I need to check that out. And the board came out beautifully.

[@MaximSmirnov-k1r]

Can you directly etch the copper from the PCB with the laser instead? Like they do when PCB milling with a CNC router. In this case you don't need to remove the whole unused copper, just trace an isolation space around the actual traces. Should be much faster and does not require painting and cleaning steps and also no chemicals

[@Rozbujnik_Rumcajs]

No. It would require very strong laser and probably different wave length. But you can etch way less copper. You just need to design better mask.

[@Velocity_AU]

You know, I never even thought about the use of a laser for pcb making, and im sure there hast to be some lasers able to cut through the top copper layer without going all the way through

[@lightspeed1755]

Probably pointed out already, but I think you have an unintentional edit about 0:36 jumping from EasyEDA to Fusion

[@OfBronzeandBlaze]

Obviously I’ve been following along to your other projects, but it seems like a printed CNC should be coming along soon

[@yagosantiago10]

I see chris borge i click

[@quadekirby4152]

I'm curious if you could try this with various trace widths and see if the acetone affects or breaks any of the traces. Otherwise I'm excited to see how the solder mask interacts next time you do this.

[@johndevires5911]

Next time do "isolation routing" with FlatCam. :)

[@Lasercleaning-Daisy]

Great

[@nikolaikruglikov7358]

Loved the video! I want to try and make a PCB with an MSLA printer one day. A question: why is the etched PCB looks greenish? That's not what I expected!

[@gamerpaddy]

not with a laser pecker but with a generic china fiber laser at 25..30Watts power you can by using a small area lens directly blast off the copper instead of masking and etching wihtout actually damaging the substrate below.

[@king_james_official]

she etch on my circuit til i print

[@JinKee]

0:31 what was with the jumpcut at easyeda?

[@rayherriott6517]

What software are you using to generate the files which drive the laser? Thanks

[@ColinWatters]

Ive used a laser to remove the silver from the back of a mirror but it hadnt occured to me to make a PCB this way. Thanks.

[@TeamJunkYardDog]

Could the laser remove the copper so you don't have to etch the board?

[@Arkarinum]

Would it be possible to use the laser alone to etch the copper from the PCB?

[@christophersmith108]

What? No concrete?

[@Borgedesigns]

well the agitator mayyy or may not be filled with it

[@PigExe]

do you spray the pcb with acetone or water at 3:11

[@BalticBlades]

Damn I loved the editing, so many jokes! Shouldnt you cover the bare copper on the other side? Liek put clear nail polish or something so you dont short anything?

[@taham6757]

nice

[@Pilotpegga]

Are you building a lathe using this?? 😃

[@apinakapinastorba]

Can you laser the copper away so no need to etch? Not saying it’s smart but it would be interesting.

[@tryura]

I have the same laser and it's not powerful enough to do this. However it's possible with more powerful lasers (probably 20W and above). I'm not sure if the isolation between the paths is as good in this case, since some pieces of brass might still be attached to the board; maybe not a good idea for high power circuits.

[@stefanblandin]

What's the minimal trace size?

[@charefdjafri9846]

Can you try to make injection molding machine

[@ninjasploit]

Hey, seems ther was a bit of a editing mishap on the easy eda / fusion transition at 0:36

[@rama3njoy]

why would you drill manually? it can be done with laser

[@anexoworkshop]

I have the same laser, not ideal to do the drilling with it. Definitely going to burn the area around the trace.

[@username9774]

Fusion can make PCBs natively

[@dancooperish]

Needs more flux. Goop that shit on, its cheap.

[@EugeneHoverhand]

How the hell did you affor-- oh.

[@recurveninja]

EasyEDA is junk unless you absolutely need its linkage to JLCPCB's parts inventory.

[@SuperNHak]

3:06 to 3:11 Seems like something is wrong with the approach you are using, because power of the laser seems too high and on the contrast the black powder still resides on pcb after marking, that looks odd ? Saying that cause when I do fiber laser pcb to remove black paint from it, I don't use amount of power so that it sparkle, its light, and black paint is completely removed, I can see pcb copper immediately after marking line passed, sometimes I do 2 light passes. Should look something like this but with less or similar power : kzbin.infop_Df9brvek8 I am glad that people start to appreciate how powerful and easy it is to make precise PCB with fiber laser... I see that it has 2 modes of operation 1 - 10W Blue 450 nm blue diode laser and 2- 2W 1064nm Infrared laser, so I am not sure of how quality is the second one. I assume you did with infrared one, as that should be way to go, as that is the one I am using with my fiber laser which is 20W of power.

[@lecloutpanda]

Please tell me at 1:07 that you won your Overwatch game

[@tcurdt]

I looks like the paint disappeared from the laser at kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKjJl5aXiNNonqs, yet you have paint left when removed with acetone(?) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKjJl5aXiNNonqs ... I don't get it. It would be nice if you could explain some of the details more.

[@christianhunn8337]

Yes, you're right. He lied about "the Board came out beautifully in the first try" He didn't invert the image...

[@Borgedesigns]

I thought I had messed up when I saw that at first as well! There was paint dust left that needed to be wiped off with water, and for whatever reason it made it look like the board was ruined when it first came off the laser. I think its just the texture difference between the lasered/ not lasered areas.

[@tcurdt]

@@Borgedesigns So the laser removed the paint? What kind of paint was it?

[@Borgedesigns]

@@tcurdt Plain cheap spray paint, the dark colour is whats important. Being a flat or matte colour helps as well.

[@CelentAle]

But didn't you use a laser to remove copper before, instead of removing it with classic acid🤦🤣🤣

[@Cam.Klingon]

You should reconsider your sponsorship ideals. One of the channels I watch accepts everything, and does one review once a year, then sells all the crap off either online or in a garage sale; he only does it for the money, to be able to make more money and grow the channel, which think is very smart. I'm loving your content.

[@TNTGAME12]

Try to avoid having moments of sudden silence during the video.

[@TheSolongsidekick]

No fucking way. NO FUCKING WAY. I tried doing tbis about a year ago almost down to a T. I couldnt afford a laser like this (completely cleared out months of saving on a diode laser), though and no matter how fine I got with my laser settings I couldn't remove the mask (standard spray paint, "chalk" paint, plastidip, and more tried) without heavily damaging the copper clad. I'm fine with not having all the money in the world, there are those way worse off than I, but to be so often reminded how limited I am with my creative endeavors due to never being able to afford tools good enough just destroys me. I always gave my creations out to whoever said "wow that's cool!" first, so I don't even have pictures of a lot of them. I've recently changed my outlook into realizing I would love to make even part of a living from making but battling the whole being poor part. Oh yeah, and coming just about as close to death as luck can possibly help me survive... after a month in the hospital and 2 weeks on life support haha. If you want help with the tips and tricks I learned along the way hit me up at this account name but in Gmail form. I'm currently working on a method for adding a solder mask etched correctly so it is as well done as the traces themselves, then also a method for screen printing as well. Along this journey people have repeatedly mentioned to me how cheap it is to have boards made at a fab house which is correct, but you often have to buy multiple copies of that board and even worse is the wait time in between board revisions where being able to manufacture them cuts down on that significantly. I'm still working to save and afford xTool's screen printing kit which has some kind of screen ink that can be "etched" with a laser. Also want to be able to afford a rudimentary gold electroplating system as the black mask w/ ENIG coating makes PCBs look like pure sex.