Introduction and first test of .035 Dual Shield flux core wire

In this episode we look at a uncommon dual shield wire: the .035 flux core from blue demon.
0:00:00 Intro
0:06:09 Installing the spool and settings
0:08:46 Let’s weld
0:13:56 First thoughts
0:15:35 Cut and etch
0:17:19 Conclusion

[@veejaybomjay8145]

Hi Greg, dual shield was developed by Lincoln Electric in, I believe, the 1930s. It was designed to run with CO2 shielding gas. I run .045 and .062 Lincoln Dual shield with CO2, it runs flawlessly and the penetration is very good. It runs much hotter with CO2 than with mixed gases. BTW your videos are great! For great penetration try running .045 wire with C25 at settings which will yield 275 amps, it penetrates deeper than E6010. The high concentration of CO2 will prevent you from transitioning to axial spray mode, works in all positions.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Great advice and thoughts. I appreciate you taking the time to share them because it adds a lot to my knowledge. If I had a bigger welder I know dual shield would be killer. Being limited to only 200 amps of output (as are most “home gamer” welders) the performance of the wire seems like it will be very limited. My hope was that the .035 dual shield would give better than Gasless flux core & mig performance (no porosity and more penetration) on 1/4in to 3/8th plate. Based on my testing I don’t believe it does. The second video comes out tomorrow where I do a bunch of cut&etches at a bunch of settings to see what happens. The results were quite interesting to say the least lol. I definitely think you’re on to something with the co2. I have co2 but I don’t have more than 26 volts to work with 🫤. I will be buying a bigger MiG welder eventually, I do so little heavy plate work that would benefit from the speed and deposition of dual shield it’s going to be a while. I do love how the stuff runs, it makes super flat clean welds.

[@ls2005019227]

I've been waiting & very interested in this video. Ready to see further testing! Thanks

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Part two will be out tomorrow. I made a part 3 already, and will film a part 4 in a little bit 😀

[@blueweld75]

EDIT:11/26/23 Greg is right about not getting that little bit of fusion down in the root of a 2F joint with .035 FCAW-G with 75/25 gas. It might be possible to get it with a preheat and 100%co2 but I just could not get full 100% root fusion on a 3/8” plate in the 2F with 75/25 gas. Now I can with .045 wire but even with my aggressive drag angle and just seeing the arc (blue arc) on the leading edge with no to very little orange in front of the arc, I just cant get a full 100% root fusion. Now I did get it to almost get there, Like there was just this little tiny point that did not fuse and the rest most certainly did. Also I could get a 3pass fillet weld to have 2 of the 3 welds fuse 100% but that first one with a hard 90 at the root, it just would not. So maybe it can with 1/4” I have not tested it. And with 3/16” metal, the base metal will just fold over on its self. Now I went up to .045 FCAW-G with 75/25 and I can hit the root of the joint in the 2F with 3/8” plate. Thats the size I run with my stuff I do now. I have a miller acdc 220. You can now buy machines that you can run at home , that can run .045 wires. You can get a reasonable everlast welder as an example and run .045 wire. And I run ball park settings of 25-26V 275-400WFS. But I have just ran like 25V -275WFs in all positions bouncing around a part . FCAW-G is very forgiving. So thats all I have made time for, for extra testing right now atleast dudes. LOVES AND HUGS AND HAPPY WELDING!!! 🤗💥💪⚔️⚒️ RAD DUDE!!! Dual shield is great but here are a couple of things for you to be aware about. Dual shield was made for the purpose of welding out of position for ship fabrication and some other industries as well. It has great mechanical properties as well. the puddle is a fast freeze. It will go in like butter and punch into the root of the joint with a 3F & 4F. It has a wide range of settings that it will work with. Now you can weld in position with dual shield. But you run the chance of getting a lack of fusion with a cavity at the root of a 2F joint. Thats because the puddle is not molten long enough to punch into the root of joint. The toes will wet out great also. Also there is tendency with 75/25 folks letting the slag roll over in the leading edge of the puddle . So you will get a void in the rood with some flaky slag. Do a cut and etch or a break test with 3/8” plate and you will see it. 3/16 “ and under will just fold over on its self. So the way you get around the lack of fusion and slag at the root of a 2F is with technique. Also 100 %C02 can give you even more punch as well. But with 75/25 in a 2F , you have to really stay on the leading edge of the puddle. Use a drag angle but really like 10-15 angle, you really have to punch into the root and stay on the leading edge of the puddle. . Dont try to make one big pass , just put a nice stringer in the root . If you get worm hole porosity, its because you are to faraway with your stickout or way to close. The flux needs time to heat up so you need a longer stick out that whatever the manufacture suggest. You also need the right cfh for your gas coverage. The other reason why you could get wormhole porosity is because the wire has moisture contamination as well. Here is a video from weld.com about the warmhole porosity kzbin.info/www/bejne/nquUmHWgh9aap80si=CD6zcEFdwpvydNBo Looking forward to seeing you do more rad things dude, especially with FCAW-G , ITS GREAT STUFF!!!! EDIT: Also dual shield runs extremely hot in comparison to the amps that you run it at. So your hands and your gun will feel the heat. 🤔That also might be why you see the weird heat affected zone as well. I am not 100% sure on that though, because the travel speed is pretty fast with semi automatic process, so the Joules should not be a ton. Thats just kinda my not so sure guess. About the penetration with the .035 . I am not sure 100% but some CWI folks I have talked to suggested that wire can not carry enough current to get a huge penetration in the flat or a 2F. But again I am not sure. I have had better luck with .045 but I have gotten .035 to punch into a joint in the 2F before. Its a modified spray arc or globular depending on who you talk too. But since it is still a wire fed process, you could try clamping the work clamp right to the part. So you have the least amount of resistance to the part and you can maybe get more of a punch with THE POWER OF LIGHTING THAT YOU WIELD IN YOUR HANDS!!! Just to be clear for folks , WFS is your amps (heat). And volts is the width of your puddle. If you have a welder that can hit 200amps in the mig setting, you can run atleast a .035 dual shield wire. Because 300- 400 WFS is going to be ball park 130-160 amps .Now you might hit your duty cycles, and you need to pay attention to how hot your gun gets, cuz you can burn it up. OK I am out if ideas , happy welding dude.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks so much for all your thoughts, they really coincide with what I have seen in the other testing I did (part 2 comes out tomorrow). My hope was that .035 dual shield would give decent penetration on 1/4inch steel without all the porosity issues of Gasless flux core, while being used in a home hobby 200amp class machine. After extensive testing I think that was wishful thinking. It does produce very high tensile strength welds, and they seem to be far more ductile than Gasless flux core which is good. They look great too, and are easier to do vertical up. I am just unsure if I can get any root fusion with it. Some more testing is in order 😀

[@blueweld75]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I think you can get it to work my dude. I would try to have a real aggressive drag angle and a WFS 350-400 . But with that WFS you need to go fast to stay out in front of the puddle. It can be done but I have no idea how much of its worth your time. But I really believe it can be done. And we are really just talking about a 2F . Because if you where doing a groove weld. You would need a backing bar to weld to, a backing bar copper or aluminum, and or a backgouge. You would be ok with the joint. And a 3F and 4F given the design of the wire, should punch right into the joint. It just takes some practice with a 2F. I feel that you have to run a smaller weld and be right on the leading edge. Anyway, looking forward to seeing you do the testing. I eventually jumped up to .045 and found success with Lincoln’s 71M outer sheild wire. But I think its more of a technique thing . I have some 71M in .035 wire. I should go back and check it out. Do you have an Instagram account? If it could help. I could send some of my cut etches with my settings. Keep crushing it dude.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

@@blueweld75 I don’t do instagram but I have a email “[e-mail]”. I will be doing a bunch more with the dual shield (I made 3 videos that are waiting to be released) once I get a replacement spool. Without spoiling the 3rd video I ran into some “issues” with the spool I had and requested a replacement lol.

[@CALDues]

Thanks so much for reaching out of your comfort zone so often to learn and help others to learn also! Can't tell you how much it's appreciated. And your followers willing to contribute in a constructive manner. I've learned tons more about dual shield in the 9 hours that your video has been out from you and the comments, especially the one that refers to you or your content as "Rad Dude". I'm definitely eager for more, thanks again!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

There are some very smart people that share info on the channel, I am very thankful for them. I have learned a ton myself from the comments, especially from guys that use a particular process all day. I am actually primarily a tig welder and stick. I actually have very little experience with gas shielded mig (a bunch with Gasesles flux core) and only touched dual shield a few times when I was in school. I am somewhat competent in all of those things because I have enough stick and tig experience, but I am very far from being a expert in them. That’s why the opinions/thoughts of the people that use something like dual shield all the time is invaluable.

[@ypaulbrown]

Hey Greg, when you get into the higher voltage range [above 27 volts] you will transition into axial spray transfer with FCAW-G......which gives a very smooth bead and you will be running very fast. due to the amount of wire your are feeding.... of course the wire feed needs to be boosted...hope your machine can let you get in to that range.... you will either love or that it.......but the spatter sure is less..... cheers, Paul in Florida

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the tips and you’re exactly right. In part 2 (out tomorrow) I run machine max of 26v in one test that I cut and etch. No doubt at 26v it’s starting to spray, it is almost silent with minimal spatter. I need a bigger MiG welder to really use dual shield for what it was designed for 😀

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the tips and you’re exactly right. In part 2 (out tomorrow) I run machine max of 26v in one test that I cut and etch. No doubt at 26v it’s starting to spray, it is almost silent with minimal spatter. I need a bigger MiG welder to really use dual shield for what it was designed for 😀

[@ypaulbrown]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg 28 volts really gets it singing.......cheers.....Paul....I love spraying, 95/5 ar-o2 for really hot and thick....but 90/10 ar-co2 will also spray, and you can short circuit with that gas too......I have even gotten .030 to spray, these parameters were on solid wire

[@ypaulbrown]

great stuff Greg, thanks for sharing......Paul

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

No problem 😀

[@suttonindustrialarts9573]

Thank you for the video. I've been considering this type of machine and using this type of wire. I use stick for thicker material and had hoped this type of wire would perform closer to stick. So many people say it is like 7018, it's great to see your results

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

The .045 dual shield wire will weld 1/4 and 3/8th steel far better, but that wire really needs more voltage and amperage than a 200 amp mig machine has. I won’t lie, I am pretty disappointed in the results of the .035. Part 3 of the videos will be out tomorrow and it’s more of the same. Based on my testing short arc mig or 7018 is the way to go long before .035 dual shield. I have said for years that for most people welding 1/4+ thick steel that stick is the way to go, and I still think it is. It offers consistent results, that are predictable. Just looking at a stick weld you know if it’s decent. That dual shield .035 weld looks great but you can have zero penetration (and thus poor strength).

[@douglasthompson2740]

Wow!! Just the thing I have been waiting three or four years for someone to do. Lots of people do the professional application but no one has scaled it down or talked about minimums for the guys with the 240 vac 60 amp circuit machines putting out an "advertised" 180 or 200 amps (read the fine print most don't come close to their own claim when you read the technical page of their manuals) and whether they can flux gas shield weld. Always been very curious as it would be another tool in the toolbox. I have stick, TIG, and several MIG machines so I have alternatives but still..... Thanks for doing this. I discovered your channel this week and subscribed as it has practical useful info for the home shop market.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the kind comment. I too wanted to see what the wire would do because of the lack of info available out there. I am not joking when I say there is so much information that is polar opposite ends of the spectrum on the .035 wire, it’s hard to find info. I think from a practical perspective the primary benefit to the wire is running vertical up is far easier than short arc Mig, and I have a feeling it will perform better on impact forces than Gasless flux core. However depending on what you’re welding on the performance may not be ideal. I probably won’t use it since I can get better overall performance with short circuit mig. Which is honestly a bummer since I had high hopes for the product. I will be testing it again in the future but for the time being the average person should stick with .035 hardwire on a 200amp machine. I have a ton of testing videos coming out and hardwire mig has actually exceeded my expectations.

[@tommelomme6761]

Again, nice info! Thanks!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

No problem 😀. I got a new spool of wire to test coming up, In video 2 and 3 I had some issues that I am hoping to address in the next video I make.

[@Freetheworldnow]

I totally agree with your findings and conclusion. I used same grade of wire as you did using a Lincoln 140. And maxed out it not even wants to dig in. Very scary. I would not touch this wire if your machine has a rating under 200 amps. Thanks for sharing! 🎉🎉🎉

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I will be going back in and testing the same wire with my bigger welder, and I doubt I will see any improvement. The fact short arc mig and Gasless flux core achieve better penetration is a huge disappointment. It could be a great option for strong/clean welds if it performed.

[@bruced1429]

Greg I use the Esab 7100 dual shield quite often. I use both 035 and 045. What you have to do a higher voltage and wire speed. It easily does 1/4 and up. I use the 035 for 1/8 to 1/4 and 045 1/4 up. The big shops near me use 1/6 dual shield in any position. I use it for uphill and downhill which it is very good and twice as fast as stick. There is an older video of Jody of welding tricks were he and another welder (his name escapes me) were they did and uphill fillet 7018 vs dual shield esab and the dual shield won every time. it takes a bit to get it going but when on it is great. I do have to do some sample runs if I have not used it for awhile. Makes a very nice bead, watch for worm tracks caused by to close a stick out. gas at 35 cfh works for me.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

You aren’t kidding, the speed is easily double 7018 and it’s far easier to run fillet welds than stick. I like the way it welds, I just think being limited by 200 amp machine output and 26v max (as are many home gamers) makes .035 wire somewhat limited in application. On 3/16th steel It would be perfect I think with a home gamer welder. Especially uphill, it is way easier than hardwire MiG. It also doesn’t seem to produce brittle welds like Gasless flux core.

[@jake-mv5oi]

JD Fab is the other guy.

[@mkearn724]

Those initial settings were almost spot on for my lower settings when I run .045 Lincoln dual shield. When I’m not in a big rush and I want a nice controllable puddle I run 23.5 volts and 295 ipm. If my memory is correct it’s usually in the ballpark of 180 amps or so with a 5/8 stick out. Another main reason for dual shield is its ductility. It’s less prone to cracking under high stress load. It’s used a lot on heavy equipment and frame repairs. I spent pretty much all summer running it for roof supports/tube columns kinda

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I did a few break tests with it and there is a massive difference between it and Gasless flux core. The Gasless flux core welds have a lot of strength but seem like a hardened drill bit, aka once flexed beyond a little bit it snaps. The dual shield weld has far more “elongation” and feels far less brittle. No doubt I would want to use dual shield for anything seeing impact forces of needing flexibility. I saw the same thin in the video that will be out soon, where I compare the strength of 6010 vs 7018 in a away from weld face bend. That one was eye opening for sure lol.

[@elkvis]

In the wire designation (E71T-1C/1M), the C means CO2 and the M means mixed gas, so you can run with either on this wire

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the tip, I will definitely remember that 😀. I will be trying out both co2 and c25 in a future video with it to see if it performs differently.

[@markdeitchman8938]

the chart you show at about 9:05 suggests more voltage and wfs. for 135 to 160 amps the chart recommends 24 to 28 volts, with 330 to 440 inches/minute. I look forward to seeing.what we learn about this. thanks.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Part two will be out tomorrow, I run the machine max 26v and more wire to see what effect it has 😀

[@DXT61]

I got some 035 dual shield a month ago from a fabrication place because they were closing up shop. It is usually more expensive than 045 but i bought it for 50.00 for 33lb rolls. Bought 2 rolls because of the price. 23-24v at around 375 WFS is what i'm running. I couldnt find many settings for it either. I also notice i struggle with stickout because my muscle memory is so set on short circuit.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

The stickout is defiantly longer. It’s easy for me to hold the stickout because I have more Experience flux core wire welding than mig lol. Part two of the video will be out tomorrow where I run a ton of different values to see what happens 😀. I like the way it runs, hopefully I can get the penetration.

[@michaelwhiting878]

I am shocked that the penetration was almost nonexistent. Of course, there are many factors to consider, and it will take some experimenting to find the best settings/technique for your machine. If anyone can ferret that out it’s you! 😊 I had high hopes for dual shield, and I have been waiting to see what your conclusions were, but honestly, with regard to penetration only, my 0.35 flux core way out performed the dual shield by far. In terms of porosity and splatter, the dual shield smokes my flux core. Hopefully, you can get better results after a little trial and error. I know in industry, 0.45 and larger diameter wires work exceptionally well, and I would really like to see if our assumptions of dual shield are correct, at least for 0.35. Not everyone has a stick welder, but it looked to me like you had used 6013 or 7018 rods on those welds, and those at least had better penetration, but that’s just an assumption on my part given my level of experience and knowledge. When you get it dialed in, it would be interesting to see a comparison (penetration & strength) between 0.35 solid wire, standard flux core and Dual shield, with each at their optimal settings. I would think in theory the dual shield should be the winner, followed by Std flux core and then solid wire. I’m not overly worried about spatter, as it is a pain, but can be easily removed, but with porosity, I would be more concerned with having to possibly grind it out and re-weld, which to me, defeats the purpose of buying given the expense. It would be hard to justify the cost for a 10-11 pound roll, and for me, that much wire is a lifetime supply, and I’m absolutely sure the wire would oxidize/degrade long before I could use it all up. Perhaps if it came on a 1-2 pound spool, I could justify it. Maybe someone out there knows of such a smaller size roll, and can share that information with us. I’m really looking forward to some follow-up testing and etching of the fillet welds.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Part two will be out tomorrow with cut and etches at varying settings. The results will be quite interesting. My hope was that it would be a excellent option for someone with a 200 amp or so MiG welder to make super strong welds on 1/4in plates. It makes cleaner (free of porosity welds) compared to Gasless flux core, but as of right now it struggles on penetration (even compared to short circuit MiG). The welds it produces will be far more ductile than Gasless flux core for sure. I can tell you having bent a random fillet weld I welded with the dual shield, it is stupidly strong (bent away from the face). I also like the way the weld looks being so clean and almost perfect. Your thoughts on the cost and spool size are exactly what I was thinking. I do mostly small jobs and repair work, often in field. The required gas shielding limits the in field work and I don’t produce parts so the speed/deposition it has isn’t hugely beneficial. As of right now I still think for the average home gamer (myself included) stick is the best option. It’s just harder to learn and weld with stick, but it won’t require a 250amp welder.

[@patrickotto2727]

I have used the blue demon wires running double shielding in restaurant stainless sinks. I have a Hobart handler 140 and it's not the most effective way to weld these sinks but I make it work. I've used the 308 and the 309 Takes some work with a grinder to make pretty but I don't have space in the truck or access to anything more than a standard outlet. Part of the problem is I was running .030. going to try a few different wires and sizes but compared to the stuff the local shop sold me the blue demon has treated me well.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Definitely with the setup you have I could see that working. Portable jobs like that can be tough. It sucks that there aren’t more useable (or affordable) battery powered tig of mig machines out there.

[@jake-mv5oi]

I tried dual shield 71M, both .035 & 45 about a year ago and got similar results to yours. Awesome looking bead and ran super easy uphill, but no root penetration. Machine is a Millermatic 210 on 75/25. Voltage topped out around 24.5-25v on the highest tap using a multimeter. The welds felt really strong just doing a sledgehammer test, but i was really hoping for that stick-like penetration. Maybe I'll try 100% CO2 or a higher ar mix like mentioned above. Interested to see what you discover.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So I have a feeling 100% co2 would give better penetration. The problem is everything I am seeing is suggesting 1.5 volts to 2 volts higher than c25 as a starting point 😮. My welder only maxes out at 26v (as do most 220amp or less machines) so co2 might not be a viable option. In the part 2 (out tomorrow) I run up to 26volts and do a bunch of cut/etches to see what higher settings look like. That will be worth watching. I also will do bend tests in part 3. I can tell you that it is absurdly strong in tensile strength and doesn’t seem to have the brittleness of Gasless flux core. The lack of root fusion will make it very weak on any force that bends towards the face.

[@jake-mv5oi]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Yeah, that's why I was thinking that a 92/8 mix would give it more of a spray transfer to dig in. Just haven't gotten around to biting the bullet and getting another tank to experiment with. Lately I've been doing some thicker metal that could use better penetration. (1/2" thick axle tubes).

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

⁠@@jake-mv5oi I have built a ton of axles for off road use and I generally have used stick and tig. With a 250a or bigger wire welder the performance with dual shield on 3/8+ steel would be 2-3 times faster than stick with cleaner welds. Definitely has huge benefits with a big welder. No doubt it has far cleaner/more ductile welds than Gasless flux core, but it hasn’t matched the penetration of short arc MiG with the same machine, so that’s kind of a issue. I will be doing some more testing soon with it to see if I can’t find a way to get better results.

[@derekbryant6137]

Lowe's sells it they have for years it's called outer Shield wire and they make it all the way down to 0. 30 at least I used to be able to get it here lately all I've seen on their shelf is 045 and that's for 200 amp and up machines there are some exceptional 180 machines that will run it but they've got inductance and other bells and whistles but it's really interesting to see that blue demon has a offering in this category of wire

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So I have a roll of .045 blue demon dual shield I will be testing shortly. I had to buy a .045 liner and contact tips to run it. I am hoping it performs far better than the .035. My new esab welder can output 250a no issue on my generator too, so I won’t have any shortage of power 😀.

[@reedsmetalworks6664]

Some time ago I spent almost a whole day messing with that same blue demon dual shield wire.I ran it on my Millermatic 252 with voltages ranging from 22 to 27 volts and tried all kinds wire speeds.I got some decent looking welds but never got any real penetration.This was my first time running dual shield wire.Made sure polarity was correct and tried different gas flow rates too.Question is the wire just crap,cause I couldn't figure out what I was missing.I have been wanting to try the Lincoln wire,but haven't gotten around to it

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Without ruining the outcome of the video part 2 that will be out tomorrow, I think what you found is exactly what I did. I am thinking that .035 simply won't root fuse anything over 3/16th steel. With 27+ volts and straight Co2 gas it might do 1/4 plate maybe lol. Stepping up in wire size will solve the issue. Based on what little bit I have found, .035 seems to be limited to around 180 to 200 amps and it simply doesnt carry enough amperage to get root fusion. It also appears to be a issue with all .035 dual shield because what you wrote is literally verbatim what others have written asking why lincoln or esab wire doesnt have penetration. Considering the dual shield wire cost over simple .035 mig, if the .035 dual shield is only good up to 3/16th steel I dont see much benefit of it over normal mig. I guess its probably faster and easier to weld out of position with, but still..

[@MarkDecamps]

E71T-1 C/M means this wire will run with CO2 (C) or mixed gas (M).

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Awesome tip on that, I didn’t spend the time to look that up. Now I just need to get a bigger welder that can run more voltage to try co2 lol.

[@sebastianleicht]

The lag of penetration kind of shocked me. Althought the welds have a very clean and steady beamappearence. It would be interresting how this wire performs vertical up and overhead! And a T-joint with a 45°bevel. 2.4mm of a gap would be very interresting with this wire, too! The longer I'm thinking about the more logical are the decent beams with 0 penetration because the wire is welded dcep - more heat in the wire than in the base Material. I think I want to purchase a dualshield wire because my welder is capable to output 48V OC and 35V on full load. What do you think about testing the metal-powder-cored wires? They are designed for welding higher strength steel as well for bigger fill-ins afaik. And they are kind of expensive. As always: very interresting video and many thanks! 👍

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Having root fusion primarily matters if only one side is welded. If both sides of something are welded it’s less of a issue (but still some fusion is desirable). I did film welding with bevels and gaps Inorder to do strength testing, although I didn’t do it with dual shield. With your welder i bet .045 dual shield would be awesome on 1/4in and above plate. 3/16th and below .035 would work great. Because I don’t do much wire welding and my welder is limited to 26v I can’t run bigger wires with it like you can. Once I buy a bigger MiG welder I will get to testing metal core and bigger flux core wire 😀

[@sebastianleicht]

I had big expextations on the dualshield becaus my big ol welder is with approx 300 kg Kind of stationary and I hoped for a chance to utilize my cheap 160 amp multipurpose welder for mobile work with thicker Material too. But seeing this results I get an idea to intense training my stickwelding skills from now. No shortcuts and no excuses anymore. 😆

[@guillermonieri4203]

Thank you. Question: did you try to break the 2 pieces (at 90 degrees) you welded? was the penetration different that the flat piece you welded & cut to show? Is it possible that the weld helds real well and are not possible to separate? I know, more than one question. Thank you.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I have 2 other videos in the series on of which does show break tests. Just hop on my channel main page and click videos, and they are very recent. To answer your question, the penetration on every test I have done at every value I have ran has been sub par. The limited penetration has caused bend tests (towards the face on a fillet weld) to perform poorly. Definitely watch the other two videos to see the results. As of right now I am awaiting a replacement spool due to poor winding of the wire (seen in video 3). I will do additional testing once I get it.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I have 2 other videos in the series on of which does show break tests. Just hop on my channel main page and click videos, and they are very recent. To answer your question, the penetration on every test I have done at every value I have ran has been sub par. The limited penetration has caused bend tests (towards the face on a fillet weld) to perform poorly. Definitely watch the other two videos to see the results. As of right now I am awaiting a replacement spool due to poor winding of the wire (seen in video 3). I will do additional testing once I get it.

[@guillermonieri4203]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thank you. I did just that leter on, but I had already posted my quetions. Your videos have been extremely helpful to me. Thank you again.

[@johnmacmillan627]

Very interesting. Weld looks great but lack of penetration is disturbing

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

It definitely is far from ideal penetration, which is really too bad. I will be testing .045 dual shield soon and that should have far better performance.

[@peetky8645]

perhaps it is meant for spray transfer? did you get to high enough voltage and wfs to get the hiss rather than the crackle......

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

In part two (out tomorrow) I run up to 26v and 400+ in/min and check penetration. No doubt at 26v it’s spraying, it’s very quiet and I can see the wire turn to liquid. Stay tuned for the results 😀.

[@peetky8645]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg cool

[@jarrengabaldon]

Its called your fusion zone that metal was liquified but to filler was added to it

[@ropo772]

Did you try straight wire .035 and 100% CO2 to compare?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I will definitely be doing that. I have a feeling the co2 will increase penetration. Still kind of a sucky situation since there isn’t a hope and a prayer of home hobby machine being able to hit voltage high enough to run co2 on that wire. Everything I am seeing says 1.5v over c25.

[@ropo772]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I'm intrigued enough to maybe soon trying my own tests. You don't see any of here and personally I don't wanna rule out flux core might as I've never looked for the easy way out. "Where there's a will, There is a way!". More expensive tools doesn't make one a better tradesmen. Keep it up Gregg.

[@conradwernicke5700]

Canadian tire sells the 1lb 035 wire.

[@bruced1429]

Canadian welding supply out of Missiuaga sells Esab 035 and 045 7100 ultra dual shield, I use it quite often. They ship free for 149.00 and over orders. Cheap for me in BC.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Really? I can’t find the stuff anywhere in the states in less that 10lb rolls.

[@bruced1429]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Greg we can only get 10 lb spools and bigger here in Canada.

[@conradwernicke5700]

I have to apologize for my comment, canadian tire does not have the dual shield wire it's the innershield.

[@willgallatin2802]

Something is not set quite right. I've run that wire on 1/4" with solid results all around. It also does multi-pass rather nicely once you find the sweet spot in your settings. Also at those wire speeds one MUST move a bit faster or you'll only heat the bead instead of the base metal.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Off camera I have ran all sorts of parameters far outside of what was on the video. I was never able to achieve root fusion on 1/4inch steel or thicker. I ran vertical up and had better fusion but that’s the case with all welding processes really. Slowing down, speeding up, running colder, running hotter, it didn’t want to fuse things together. I actually contacted a few wire companies and the ones that responded gave completely different parameters to run for their wire and one specified that the .035 wire is not designed to weld over 3/16th thick material. It seems like the product is highly variable. My take is this: the blue demon .035 wire performs poorly for root fusion with c25 gas. It may be possible with 100% co2 it would achieve some root fusion. The number one issue with the blue demon wire is it’s not a replacement for .035 hard wire mig. Standard short arc mig produces better penetration and thus better testing results without any real issues. This can be debated but what really can’t be debated is the parameters the .035 dual shield needs to run are beyond what a home hobby machine is capable of running. Most of all the 200 amp (or less) machines can’t output enough voltage to run it properly. Then 100% co2 needs even more voltage and you’re left with a situation where it’s not really that useful. If a person has a 230+ amp mig machine they can just run .045 dual shield which works fine. With a home hobby machine the cost of the wire (double that of .035 hardwire) and still using gas shielding, I don’t see too many uses for it. It makes nice flat welds and welds vertical up easier than short arc, but penetration will always be suspect on thicker material. I will be testing it some more to see how it performs with a much more powerful welder, but I don’t have much hope.

[@JohnStrandt]

I ran Esab 7100 ultra in 0.045, 1/16, and even 3/32 over many years. I always used CO2, never a mix. Only on KZbin do I see people using a mix - I don’t get it.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I am not sure what you don’t get? .035 dual shield wire is specified as c25 or co2. Either one can be used. The purpose of the video was to test the validity of .035 dual shield for use on a home hobby 200amp class welder. 100% c02 on dual shield requires higher voltage than most home hobby welders can produce, therefore it’s not a viable option. Many people look at the .035 dual shield wire as a possible option to use with their 200 amp class machine, but there is very little information available on it, thus I tested it. The results at this point are fairly conclusive that it’s not a viable option and it has sub par performance even on 1/4inch plate. That’s extremely value able information since spending 50 to 80$ on a big spool of wire for sub par performance is a waste.

[@JohnStrandt]

If you specified that in the video, I may have missed that. However, that’s not even my point. You’re not the only one to run a mix. It is just strange to me, as I see a mix as less than ideal. Just an observation, really, not a criticism.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

@@JohnStrandt It’s a 3 part video, if it wasn’t covered in the first video I definitely covered it in the 2-3 video. I would love to run it with c02 and do a cut and etch but I don’t believe I have enough voltage on my machine to do that. I apologize if I came off upset, I was in a hurry to write my response. You bring up valid points that co2 typically would increase penetration, and it’s more commonly used with it. I will be attempting c02 use with the wire in a future video, I had to exchange the wire (due to the fact the spool was wrapped poorly and had a crack in the plastic I didn’t see, that was in video 3). I am also going to test if a 250amp wire welder has better performance as well. As it sits now it’s a disappointment that 25v and up to 430in/min of wire feed had 0 penetration on 1/4inch steel, which is up there on output for a home hobby welder. Hardwire Mig outperformed it on the same welder, which to me is a issue if I can’t get better performance. I think c25 is just commonly used because that’s what people have and the wire specifies it can be used with it. In my case I don’t believe my welder will run with c02 any better because of power limitations.

[@stevewheatley243]

Looks like my little 125 flux core won't run this.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Dual shield needs gas to shield it so you would need a mig machine to run it. The good news is .035 Gasless flux core welds really good on steel up to 3/16th so you can still weld a ton of stuff 😀

[@stevewheatley243]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks. I already have .035 and I understand I can run E71T-11 multi pass wire. Is that right?

[@scrapmanindustries]

I thought this channel name was making mistakes with greg. How are you gonna put the roll of wire in correctly the first time? Complete false advertising there.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Haha, the biggest screwups I constantly do is forget to turn the gas on, wrong polarity, and no ground clamp on the work😅

[@jasoncousins1343]

Also have your gun pointed straight in dont kick it back 10 degrees thats why it seemed like it wasn't getting in your gun angle probably to angled this process is well known for good sidewall fusion i used alot

[@jasoncousins1343]

That stuff penetrares way better than short circuit

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Have you used .035 dual shield? I know .045 works with thicker metal, however I don’t believe the .035 will work. I will be retesting it with a much bigger welder soon, and I don’t believe it will perform any better. The .035 seems to have a reputation for poor root fusion online.

[@jasoncousins1343]

The deposit made by t1 wires are like 7018 its ductile use co2 and ur not running hot enough especially in the 2g

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I extensively tested the wire over the 3 part series. I don’t believe the wire is capable of producing root fusion on 3/8th because the wire doesn’t have the ampacity handling to get there. After a ton of research it’s not generally suggested to use .035 dual shield on plates over 1/4in. Using straight co2 sounds great in theory, but there are a lot of issues with that. Most 200amp home hobby welders are not capable of pushing the voltage I tested in the video (24-26v) which is a issue because co2 requires more voltage than c25. The point of testing the .035 dual shield is to test the validity of it on 1/4in to 3/8th plate on a 200amp class machine. The end result unfortunately seems to point to one thing: a 200 amp class machine isn’t going to cut it with c25, and doesn’t have the voltage capability to get performance with co2. Across the internet it seems like nobody has proper penetration with .035 dual shield on thick plates. I will be retesting it with my new 250amp MiG welder, but I am sure the results will be the same with c25, maybe something will happen with c100. However the settings will still be far out of the range for a home hobby machine, which unfortunately really doesn’t make the wire a legit choice for most people with a MiG welder.