MIG vs. Flux Core vs. Metal Core

#welddotcom
We are comparing solid wire spray versus gas shielded flux core versus metal core today with a little help from Jerry Mathison at Select Arc. To compare the 3 wires we're going to calculate:
Wire efficiency
Heat input
Melt off rate
Deposition rate
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[@Welddotcom]

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[@stanervin6108]

Wow! A mathematical wizard with a degree in Business Administration who probably minored in QC that welds! 🧙‍♂️

[@zackaryrients1863]

This video is a bit beyond my grasp as of now, but it's extremely interesting. Ty

[@kevinpiltz7922]

@@stanervin6108 !!!

[@railfanjames7699]

What is the main purpose of metal core

[@simonkuhl6793]

You spelled efficiency wrong...

[@GAIS414]

Would be cool to see a side by side penetration test and a bend test.

[@GAIS414]

@Wroger Wroger Don't think so. Just changing the gun angle will affect both the penetration and bead profile. I bet there will be some interesting differences between these wires.

[@danielbeaird6264]

@@GAIS414 Ers70-6 wire is rated for 70,000psi, flux is rated at 72,000psi That's only a 1/35th difference between the two

[@alienpoker]

@Patrik Einarsson Disagree. Process will change the bend characteristics. Spray transfer, the wire is sprayed into the melting weldment. The wire never touches the metal. Also gas changes will affect properties of the weld when you bend it to failure.

[@GAIS414]

@@alienpoker So what's your point here? Would it be a bad thing to perform penetration and bend tests while comparing these wires? At least in my shop the structural properties of the weld is of great interest as well as getting the most bang for the buck. Also you don't need to school people who watch this particular video on how the processes work. I bet most of us are here because we have a professional interest in welding.

[@GAIS414]

@S14kabuild Yes. This is exactly why some further testing would be cool. Also in my experience gas shielded flux core equals deeper penetration. So, there must be more to this than just different deposition rates by weight. However interesting that is in it's own regard.

[@OMCanam]

Starting at 0:45 Explaining terms checked at 2:35 General end results at 13:57 Detailed/explained end results at 15:17 Awesome audio & video guys. Gj to your team. Thanks alot for these perfectly explained informations. Greetings from Canada!

[@carolshawol6699]

Man this is what I'm talking about absolute golden information thank you guys so much your helping alot of people out

[@rondumontier1187]

After studying the history of welding in America it good to aee flux core is still holding it,s own. I keep 1 machine loaded up with fluxcore. Great vid Men.

[@danielkennedy8530]

I used to work at a shop on second shift when I was going to trade School. We ran 060 flux core wire. 30 volts and 275 on wire speed. This was required. It made great welds just like the ones you just tested. Thanks for the educational videos.

[@JohnChuprun]

Jerry is a boss and a wealth of knowledge, thanks to him for coming on the show!

[@fluxcore4901]

Salute to you Sir in the blue shirt, you def know your shit 💪💯👨‍🏭👨‍🏭💯💪

[@zod-engineering-welding]

electrode efficiency for solid wire on spray transfer is incorrect: 10.5/10.7= 98.1% efficiency. For metal-cored wire, deposition rate cannot be higher than the melt-off rate. Assuming these got mixed up, then 10.62/10.92= 97.3%.

[@hachemeachi]

I noticed that too

[@OffGridOverLander]

I had really hoped to see the difference in the cut n etch

[@anagentorange8611]

Nice having Jerry on here! Tons of knowledge between the 2 of you!

[@gordonclark7632]

Who would have considered that there so many variables to obtain a production cost outcome. So interesting.

[@JnC445]

Wish there was a way to like a video more than one time, what an absolute gem; so full of information and well thought out production. The knowledge level and articulated way of putting it into words that almost everyone can understand makes it even better to enjoy, no personal preferences or BS beating around the bush just cold hard facts backed by solid data, thanks a lot guys.

[@kartnerds]

I thought you guys were welders but your scientist that weld. What an incredible video!

[@Elfurzio86]

NASA secret force

[@jamescameronmitchell4501]

Welding is a science my friend

[@mikeundereood1071]

Weldingtolage

[@BlankityBlank]

Our shop is right in the middle of moving from flux core to pulse metal core. A large percentage of what we do is out of position but if you learn to pulse that stuff vertical up you're golden. Thanks for a great video, very informative.

[@huntercolbert6879]

*laid down the nipped off wire* "There ya go little feller" lmao

[@benjamintaylor3962]

Man I wish I could make a bead like that! Looks awesome! Thanks for all the videos, always helps me to get better!

[@robertalexanderhoffmann8229]

Thanks for the calculations and the practical automatic welding for comparison !! THat will help me to choose the right possibility !!

[@XirisAutomation]

Glad you were able to get some great shots using the Xiris Weld Camera. Awesome video!

[@derek9217]

Like to see some bend tests with those parameters.

[@adamreynolds3863]

That was a really neat video, a lot of time and effort was put into setting everything up and recording data, and you guys did a really good job with it, Kudos

[@quietprolink5322]

Thank you for sharing. Very satisfying to hear the chiselling and see the melting process of the welding. That is the sight, sound, setting, angle I am trying to embedded or etch in my want to be welder of mine. cheers!

[@nameofthegame9664]

Great video as always! Keep the quality content coming!

[@Ali.g.97]

Keep on killing it you guys 🤘we appreciate the knowledge you bless us with🤣

[@shahbazkh2885]

Beautiful and wonderful illustration

[@lonnygehring3043]

Excellent test guys! Thanks for doing this.

[@TheLettich17]

Hey I know Jerry! From a certain company in Hanover , PA, unnamed of course! Good guy

[@shimarlie1]

Oh you mean Jerry from Jerry's Giant Dildo Emporium? Yeah, top guy. Knows his stuff.

[@SteadArcFab_Ministries]

Wow now that was an awesome video you guys!!! The numbers really tell it. But it’s so cool to be able to do a comparison that way. I kind of suspected some of this with the tests that I’ve done. Of course they were nowhere near this detail though! Thanks

[@ASAPJermz]

Wow just wow... So many gems in this episode! 🤯

[@walterforsiethe2567]

This video has some really good information and I'm going to apply what I have learned every time I use my everlast mig.

[@JT-91]

i just started welding and your videos are really helping me thanks

[@BigPowerAL]

New Sub here. Just bought my first welder and learning a ton from your channel. Appreciate all the help!

[@WTFisAuserFRCKINname]

My favorite part is when you did the welding thing and showed us how the weld went and then went back to welding. Eye lyke weldinz.

[@dannyboy1794]

Awesome video, enjoyed the content. Great job!

[@zod-engineering-welding]

Excellent info. Metal core on pulsed spray runs nice too.

[@TeamDeXtreme]

Gotta admit you guys are BY FAR the best welding channel on youtube...keep up the great vids! :D Learning TIG atm but its been too long since iv'e done MIG....might give flux core a go or just mig anyway with the argon i have already :P

[@Marco-uw9xd]

13:59, que aula, nem sabia que existia MCAW, muito parecido com FCAW aqui no Brasil trabalha muito com FCAW(arame tubular). Parabéns.

[@Hitman-ds1ei]

This is the type of comparative testing I like to see

[@TheLettich17]

This was a good video, agree with all your points, well done

[@jonboyway]

Great work guys

[@thomasroberts2132]

This was insanely informative

[@joopterwijn]

To make the test complete you should cut/polish/ets the samples and look at penetration, many a bend test. But overall a super interesting video! Well done guys keep them coming!

[@jhlranch8082]

Lot of work - thanks - great vid.

[@jamesgulrich7416]

I'm behind the times! Although I have heard the term metal core wire, I just figured it was a fancy way of saying solid wire. Thanks for the video because I did a little research to find it's a very interesting product. Something that I probably won't ever run through my 40-year-old miller wire feed though.

[@mikeford963]

Why not? It's hot, but it has it's place.

[@21juliolopez40]

Gracias por toda la información que compates,

[@powerstroke0459]

Been running Hobart FabCor Edge on pulse for about two weeks and love it. Dont know if I'll ever go back to solid wire 70S-6

[@boltonky]

Great information and very clear, tell you both are very knowledgeable. I would of been interested to see the self shielded wires used in this test also as comparison, i use a lot of shielded wire myself due to my workspace and price of gas in my area but its good to know both sides :)

[@toolbox-gua]

Great info.

[@scottharvey7730]

We tested metal core SMAW at work. A code shop. Running the wire wide open I could not get over 720 amps with 1/8 inch wire. The deposition efficiency and rate is crazy. Still think the solid wire looks better.

[@jimzivny1554]

Great test I'd love to see a cut and etch to check differences in penetration.

[@patrickfarley8036]

This is the part of welding I like everybit as much laying down a beautiful bead! Gimme the "nerdy" stuff all day long! Metallurgy videos would be nice too! 😉👍✌️

[@johnmacmillan627]

Very interesting.Thx

[@snowkracker]

I’m on FCAW-G right now. I just passed t-joints yesterday so today when I go in I’ll start on my plates. At my school we use a 22.5 bevel on both with a ¼” gap. What I’ve realized is that you can’t be afraid to experiment with the settings a bit to figure out what settings fit best for me. Just turning up my wire speed 10 and I went from having spatter everywhere to not having everywhere.

[@mikeford963]

That's the whole point of welding school. Experiment there, remember what works for you, and take that out to the real world

[@RBAERO]

Nice video and nice weld jig. Has a videos about that weld jig you using on that video?

[@royserles5322]

Crazy coincidence, Jerry was at my shop the other day doing a demo. Then he is in a random yt video I find.

[@w4shep]

Great video! Maybe next you could see how these do against death core and grind core 😁

[@Owens_Racing]

Great Video!

[@JSuparman]

awesome scientific experiment here. Thanks.

[@rickychavez7693]

Great video, very informative! 🤘🏽 anyone know the instrumental playing in the background during the arc shot? 😅

[@johnw4590]

Dual shield Flux core still the best heavy structural steel wire. Runs great vertical up and overhead. Smoother flater weld

[@05RangerXLT]

Absolutely invaluable information here, thank you guys for it. If it's not too much to ask would you be able to cut and etch them to show weld nuggets?

[@Welddotcom]

We ran out of tim while Jerry was here for that, but we can post it up as a photo after we do it.

[@raulrubio2862]

The dude in blue is super specific and articulates info very well lol wish he did more videos.

[@BLOOJ97]

I weld with the metal core at work every day. its crazy to see the difference between man and machine

[@ch2305]

Do you have a video that shows 'The Complete Welding Overview' ? It would be good for subscribers to be able to refer back to a complete overview. That would explain all the different processes (stick, tig, mig, pulse, with shield, without shield gas??) , transformers vs inverters, mobiles and how you would or wouldn't be able to add a mobile suitcase welder into your shop and truck. Great channel!! Thanks

[@soldahall1208]

Very good

[@loganketchum7819]

The shop I work at we use almost only Hobart metal core. We weld a lot of 1" thick up to 6" a514 at 29.5v and 350 wfs with .045 wire and 90/10 gas. I would say we get an almost excessive amount of spatter.

[@ChromeToDaDome]

Hobart wire sucks. Hobart anything sucks lol

[@lunchboxproductions1183]

That makes sense because they're getting that wire to spray at 25.5v in the video, that extra 4v is just turning wire into spatter. Try turning the voltage down and bumping up that wire speed.

[@ryanjones9305]

I’m interested to know the product line numbers you used from selectarc for this test.

[@johnsellers2999]

Very good video thanks. One question,when you run double shielded flux you don't or can't reverse polarity,right? Where regularly on plain flux core single shielded ,no bottled gas you reverse polarity,correct?

[@aaronmccrary8085]

What gas blend where you using in the spray arc?

[@klaychesham1791]

Awwwweeesomeee video dude, I love getting deep into this stuff 😁. Just one thing bugging me, are the values for Dep. rate and melt off rate swapped around? Without Elec. efficiency above 100% it doesn’t add up 👍🏻

[@Welddotcom]

Rerunning the numbers. I think we may have just swapped the two when we recorded them on the whiteboard.

[@scottpella7419]

This is an AWESOME test! What did you do with the wire in the whip? Didnt see that on the scale? Now that you have the samples, I'd love to see part 2, bend test/ penetration differences.

[@Welddotcom]

We retracted it back onto the spool before we weighed it

[@davey2k12]

I herd them say that they retracted it lol

[@a.s.c.2909]

What is the difference between solid core and metal core wire? I have never heard the term metal core until now. Great video as always.

[@182corbin]

Yup metal core is best bang for your buck. Lots of production shops out here will run 1/16 wire in big barrels of it.

[@mikegpunk4559]

What settings would they use for that 062

[@SerenityChaos1975]

Great video, I sure wish the US would finally convert to metric though!

[@georgewilliams6328]

Very informal, I just got a Lincoln 140 HD from Home Depot And will be doing around the house jobs for myself. I was a combination welder in the industry in Houston Texas for right at 20 years. Most of my welding was heliarc and stick welding and very little MIG welding. I'm kind of leaning towards the MIG welding part of my wire feeder because I feel like it has a much cleaner weld verse flux core. I didn't know that there was a difference between MIG welding and flux core welding just that the flux core had flux on it. And Mig you can use C25 from what I'm told. What do you think?

[@beachboardfan9544]

What equipment do you guys use to get that 10:18 shot?

[@Soldaduragal]

Amazing and educational video. I suggest two improvements for future videos: 1- Use international units too ( you got worldwide audience strugling with unit online converters). The AWS recomends use it in the Welding Handbook and is a common scientific practice. 2- Cut, polish and Nital etch a cross section, to compare penetration.

[@johnjacobjingle8302]

You would be suprised by how much the change in gas affects the process.. Also your voltage "legnth of arc" will also affect this more than you would think...

[@douglasthompson2740]

It would have been interesting to see the gas settings and formulas.

[@FishFind3000]

8:20 did you make sure you leveled your scale for accurate measurements.

[@TWX1138]

MIG vs. Flux Core vs Metal Core? How Hardcore!

[@mr.tarkovish2587]

Man I LOVE flux core 😍

[@kevinhornbuckle]

I am looking at two different Lincoln machines for light duty work. Can anyone advise which is better? "WeldPak 125HD" OR THE "SP125 Plus"

[@scottroberts3158]

For the gas shielded flux core test your wire feed was to low, voltage to high, and stickout to short (it is kind of hard to tell but unless you have rebated the tip into the nozel a fair distance it seems you are running about 3/8-1/2 inch of stickout, where as 3/4-1 inch is what most manufactures reccomend. if you were to run similar setting to what Lincoln, ESAB and BOC reccomend with they're FCAW-G wires you would be at around 600 IPM and 27-28 volts with 1 inch of stickout for 280ish amps, and that would drastically change the outcomes here I think. Also running the FCAW-G with the wire that low at 29 volts I strongly sustect would have slag inclutions in the root of the weld, as there isnt enough arc force to drive it into the corner despite the surface of the welding looking great.

[@bruced1429]

does the weight of the flux itself not have a bearing to the weight/per /hour etc. for deposits ?

[@chuckmellor6507]

Would have like to have seen cross sections to show the penetration of each process.

[@Craneman4100w]

Should have put the flux core slag on the scale with the reel so we're getting numbers to account solely on metal deposition.

[@dogwatchbyk9keeperfencingl507]

That’s amazing! metal core deposition rate is higher than the melt off rate! I’m assuming you reversed those numbers.

[@aristotelian9693]

He had to have. They also fixed the efficiency from the flux core (initially they calculated as lbs/hr, instead of %).

[@kain0m]

I don't know what they did there. According to their numbers, they deposited 0.162 lbs of weld, using 0.278 lbs of wire. Doesn't add up, that'd be 58% efficiency...

[@yaishk]

So I was wondering, economy wise, are the throath thicknesses all the same? I imagine that with all parameters the same that one should be smaller with flux core

[@canadiantrucker9574]

Ever since Chucke2009 went nutzoid you've been the go to channel to watch

[@ShainAndrews]

The few videos I watched of hers years ago told me that. You probably grew up, which is a very good thing.

[@canadiantrucker9574]

@@ShainAndrews well he wasn't a bad teacher but he went kookoo for cocoa puffs

[@canadiantrucker9574]

@calee4nyaboy I wouldn't say I'm stupid but okies

[@andrewmeers2086]

may i ask what feeder do you have on your dc400

[@AASueldametalsrl.]

Excelent!!

[@blackdaan]

really nice video.. :D

[@jeanpierredaviau7478]

Did you used the gaz with the metal core?

[@scottycollins131]

Flux core rocked this test. Production cost?

[@michaelcoyle7071]

Solid - fcaw - mcaw : which one had the best penetration ?

[@codyrocks500]

I feel like this needs to be ran again. It can be much more accurate. Do the same thing but weigh the fluxcore before you chip it off. Then do a 3rd final weight after you clean off the welds. Silica has weight and it's waste just like slag so do a weight with all the waste you can save. Then clean the waste off and weigh again. I'm pretty interested in knowing the difference there.

[@shahbazkh2885]

Enthusiastic music mentioned during the wars ☺😀

[@evanburton1271]

Why do you limit solid wire to 5/16” and less(just curious)? I work in a machine shop and weld 1/2” and 5/8” plate all the time with ER70s-6 I normally run around 33/34 volts and around 600 IPM (my machine uses number dials for WFS :( ) and my amperage dial normally shows around 320 amps give or take with a short stick out. I’ve cut and etched scrap plates of this thickness before when I’ve had some down time to see if i need to adjust my settings. Needless to say i was fairly satisfied with the results, root and fills all looked good, so did my fillets.

[@BG-hs4qo]

⁵/¹⁶ is the filet weld size maximum for single pass. Not the material thickness. If you try welding a ⅜ single pass filet it doesn't penetrate as well because of how slow you have travel

[@saxplayingcompnerd]

yeah just swap spools for each part. that sounds highly efficient