Flux core welding part 4.75: 1/4in plate revisited

I still wasn’t happy with the results in part 4.5 so I swapped to .035 wire and tested again. Interesting results are found yet again. This will conclude the thicker steel testing, next video we will weld weld car 🚗 exhaust.

[@veemaxx]

Thank you for taking the time to make these excellent series of videos, your channel deserves many more views. I have been using a Forney EasyWeld 140 262 flux core for a few years on a 25 amp circuit breaker dedicated to just welders and have done many repairs on 3 point equipment up to 3/8th with .035 ine wire and the machine maxed out on voltage and 9/10 on wire speed. I always preheat with a propane torch on the thick stuff to burn off the paint then wire wheel it clean before welding, seems to work.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the kind words. Being so new to KZbin it will take a bit to get my content out to people. Rest assured I will be producing a lot more interesting and helpful videos, so I am sure as time goes on the views will go up. Sounds like you know what you’re doing with you’re setup. 140amps on .035 with some preheated plates is definitely the ticket to get solid performance. It’s unfortunate that the super cheap flux core welders make many people unaware of the capabilities of good wire with a decent machine. Short circuit mig isn’t capable of making solid root penetration welds on thicker plates without switching to spray arc. Over the years I have seen a ton of failed short circuit welds on 1/4 and above due to people not understanding limits of a process. I hope to help educate people and have them be able to make good decisions when it comes to welding and other things 👍

[@chipcoombs2866]

Firstly, thank you for spending countless hours producing these videos. For neophytes like myself, it has proven very helpful; both your stick welding series and now the flux core series. I have very recently purchased a Yeswelder MIG 205 DS Multi functional welder. Because I live on a farm, there are always repairs to be done and I have always relied on a neighbour, who is even longer in the tooth than I am. So, I thought I had better learn how to do these repairs myself. Watching your 20 amp circuit breaker trip on a 110/120 v house system made me think of asking you what your thoughts are on running this Yeswelder ( supposedly rated to 200 amps ) on a portable 4 KW generator which offers me 240 v output. Because it would be a portable system, I can take the mountain to Mohammed vs bringing the farm equipment into the barn or the garage. Many thanks!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So I can tell you the generator won’t have enough power. I have made a “welders on generator” video 3x now and I am still not happy with it, so take 4 will be out soon lol. The two issues you will run into is the power factor of the machine and the efficiency. In simple terms welders without power factor correction cause power to be reflected back to the generator or the power grid (reactive power). This amperage on the input line is not used by the machine, but the breaker doesn’t care. The welder could be 100% efficient and with poor power factor it will still trip a 20a breaker. The simple way to find a generator rating needed is to take the output amperage and the max voltage of the machine. With a 200amp mig machine that’s probably 200a and maybe 24v. You multiply those by each other, which is 4,800 watts at max output. Without power factor correction you need to times that by 2 and that is the breaker rating to max it out. So about 9600 watts (at 240v generator power) which gives you about 40amp circuit (9600 divided by 240v). In my own practice my 200amp inverter might machine actually loads the line to about 36-37a at max output. If the machine had power factor correction you would only need around a 5k generator to run it. I know it sounds stupid, but you literally need bigger wire and a bigger breaker just to handle to reactive power from the welder, it’s not that it consumes the extra amperage, it reflects it back to the source. This is why I can run at 200amps with my esab 235 without issue in a 7600 watt generator and my firepower trips the breaker. The esab has power factor correction.

[@chipcoombs2866]

Excellent response and I get it. Thank you! I have done some further sleuthing and read about the power factor. Unfortunately, I didn't anticipate this when I bought the generator to built a 1500' cedar rail fence ( screws vs nails ), nor did I appreciate this when I bought the welder itself. So, I'll go to plan B which is to run 6/3 copper wiring from the beaker panel and a 50 amp breaker to a plug in the garage which can be used for either the welder on 240v or someday a plug in hybrid/EV ( if the EV's continue to be shoved down our throats). lol Thank you again. :) @@makingmistakeswithgreg

[@elgkas9928]

Another great lesson. What is amazing is that your results came from a sub $200 welder which, by its own specifications, never mentions 1/4” plate in the settings list.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Flux core wire is definitely the way to go on 3/16th and above steel over short circuit mig. I wish I had a 125 amp short circuit mig welder to test, because that would have poor penetration on 1/4 no doubt. Flux core wire is surprising, it’s overall penetration on the titanium 125 is like a 1/8in 7018 run at 120 amps. I am glad harbor freight came to market with the welder, it’s actually useful and works really good within its limits.

[@elgkas9928]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Agreed. I certainly hope that more folks find your channel.

[@gregbetts8057]

i wonder if when you did the first plate ( not maxed out) if the feed and voltage settings were spot on , but when you maxed out on the second if for some reason the feed was maybe too much by a tad and you didnt say how much time between the first plate and the second if the unit was at a different heat on the eternals . it could be the combination of both wire and unit wernt a good match compared to say a blue or red box welder might have had different results . either way , this is showing the unit is quite good for a home hobby or even a shop who only used the unit to attach a bracket or exhaust pipe . great vid series ,im really learning something . buy the way , i love my 20 year old red box 120v unit . thanks .

[@dkdogs]

I find my 20amp breaker trips as well with this machine. Kinda sucks since I didn’t want to have to go with adding a bigger breaker but want the max result from the machine.

[@CantKillMe]

🤣now thats what I call cant let the dogs lay down nice

[@peetky8645]

wonder if porosity on the first pass was due to cold wire. perhaps running an inch or two on scrap prior to an important weld would preheat the flux. i'm a big fan pf propane preheat with a 120v machine in thicker stuff.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

On 120 volt preheat will always massively help. I think a lot of the issues were simply because I was running the welder at absolute max output. I have ran a few test welds with the firepower 200 amp MiG machine I bought and it seemed to completely not care about running hot settings on 1/4in plate with flux core. Likely because it was hooked to 240 and has 200 amp output so 140 or so amps is not a issue for it. In all fairness the harbor freight 125 is specified at 3/16th max, so it’s punching in way above its power rating welding 1/4.

[@buggyduggy2431]

Interesting what you said about the flux in flux core. I knew nothing about welding but bought a Everlast Mig. I always had a hard time making welds look good. I was under the impression the wire needed more flux. I have stick welded some. I bought some Kiswell wire from amazon that worked better than the yes wire. I will have to go up to 035 wire now. Please buy some Yes wire & the Kiswell wire and let us know what you think.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So I have done some more testing in more recent videos (like my recent flux core vs Mig video). There seems to be a practical limit around 1/4in steel for .035 flux core wire. Even with a much more powerful welder I can’t get porosity free welds on anything thicker than 1/4in plate with .035. Stepping up wire size would likely help with that, but standard self shielded flux core has a practical limit of just under 3/8th steel with most wires according to manufactures. I have also been experimenting with .035 dual shield to see if that would work, a video will be out in a week on that.

[@wisconsinwoodsman1987]

Did you swap out for a different ground clamp? Just noticing area where you are clamped to table.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

The other ground clamp you saw is from my dynasty 210. The one it comes with is flimsy, but for light duty work it should be ok 👍.

[@chrisc353]

So if you had pre heated the plates prior to the first run do you think you would have gotten better penetration? I mean this machine isn't even meant for 1/4" but it clearly can do in a pinch.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Preheat will undoubtedly increase penetration. I see preheat as more of a non critical solution to solving a problem. The issue with preheating is can affect what you’re welding on negatively. It’s a variable that is highly dependent on specific things (aka temp and how consistent the temp is). Preheat in a stable oven is far different than a mapp gas torch if you know what I mean. And since you can’t see the inside of a weld on something easily, it’s not reliable enough to use on critical material without more control. With all that said if all I had was a 125 amp flux core welder and a map gas torch, you better believe I would use it to make some stuff out of thicker material 😃

[@ropo772]

Any videos of multipass cut and etch?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Not on flux core but within a week I will have a cut and etch out on a multi pass stick weld. For all practical purposes flux core is virtually the same. One thing to note though, flux core wire must be classified as MP wire and not -GS wire if multi pass welds with flux core is desired.

[@JB-fi3fg]

are you foccusing on mig or will you do more stick welding in the future?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Great question. I am in the process of shooting a 10+ part video series on stick. I should have the first two videos up tomorrow by 5pm 😀

[@peetky8645]

when i let my stickout get real short, my sound changes to a hiss from a crackle......am i getting to spray territory?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

When the stick out shortens the sound changes, that’s normal. By definition spray is created by the wire turning to liquid before it even hits the puddle, which is normally due to very high voltage. Flux core operates under DCEN which will have a different arc sound than DCEP with MiG. You can actually see small wire turn to spray on flux core depending on settings and wire diameter. The key is that the voltage/wfs is being run within the manufactures specs. If you up the voltage way higher than suggested undesirable results and weld defects can happen. Edit: I almost forgot. If you run a stick rod like 7018 DCEN it will sound very similar to what flux core does cranked up with a short contact tip to puddle distance. Completely different than a normal rod sound.

[@peetky8645]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg good to know

[@ropo772]

20amp breaker on 120? Tripped. And a 30amo at 240 would allow the welder too?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Unfortunately the welder is 120 only. A 30 amp circuit would surely not trip, but the power cable for the welder probably would melt 😂. There are a lot of wild regulations that allow for small power wire on intermittent low duty cycle devices like welders. The 125 titanium was never really meant to weld 1/4in, it can do it provided it’s on a dedicated breaker. It’s not really a fault of the welder, it’s being asked to do something it was never designed to do lol.

[@TylerHankss]

I’ve found the Lincoln 90i FC is rated to a max of 1/4 versus the titanium easy flux is rated to 3/16 Interesting to note, the Lincoln has the exact same gauge wire for the power cord and the MiG gun and ground as the titanium. Both 120v machines. The titanium easy flux is actually rated 5 amps higher as well. 120amps vs 125amps I find it odd that they are so similar. And even the titanium being a little more powerful, but it isn’t rated for 1/4 while the lesser powerful machine is rated for 1/4”.

[@bobd.fletcherjr4912]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️

[@buggyduggy2431]

Please buy a mig that uses volts & in. minute for settings. The letter number thing helps no body.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

The video in specific was designed to help people with the harbor freight welder, which happens to be the most popular flux core welder sold. The truth is hard numbers are of little value to actually weld with. Every machine has their own values in their own chart, and should be followed. There are no magic numbers that work for every welder because every welder is plus or minus 2-3 volts and +\- probably 75in a min wire feed of setpoints. A vast majority of home hobby welders also don’t have digital displays. Learning how to weld based on what your machines chart says and what the welds look like is the only way to succeed.

[@dkdogs]

I’ll clarify my last comment. I’m running the same machine. I have a 20amp breaker running .030 wire on 3/16 at factory suggested settings. I always trip the breaker. I plug it into my neighbors 50amp with a reducer plug from 220 to 110 and can run the higher factory settings suggested for 3/16. I’m putting in a separate 50amp to avoid tripping it constantly. It will allow me to use my plasma cutter as well. Do you see any issues with using the reducer plug on 220 50amp? Since you have done more testing, what settings would you suggest for 3/16” using .030? Thanks!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So wire fed welders have some interesting properties, one of which being that they can’t exactly control their amperage output. Since they are constant voltage variable amperage, the amperage is controlled by wire feed. Well on most cheaper welders they don’t have the ability to regulate output much, which means you can often run higher wire feed than you probably should, thus more output amperage. Generally speaking you would want to run the machine on a dedicated 20a 120v breaker. Due to poor power factor, the machine may load a circuit with far more current than 20a despite actually consuming less than that. There isn’t much that can be done with this issue unfortunately. Many higher end wire welders have power factor correction and can output 140a on a 20a without an issue. As far as settings, I would recommend using .035 wire for welding 3/16th. You will likely find internal porosity in welds on 3/16th with .030 because of how fast the weld pool solidifies (gas can’t escape).

[@dkdogs]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I appreciate your response and detail put into it. Thank you!

[@irishlush364]

I run this welder on a 20 amp and have ran at close to h-9 on 1/4 with .030 and didn't trip my breaker

[@peetky8645]

i haven't used it, but IC weld and Zila both sing praises of Hobart fabshield 21B over lincoln NR 211. the loss of penetration might be due to the welder efficiency dropping off with components heating up or reaching their limits. perhaps the energy density delivery drops off at the margin...the penetration of the lower setting looked great. also, fabshield is e71-t11 so it can be used multiple passes. most tgs wires stipulate single pass. can't remember if nr211 is -tgs or -t11

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Great suggestion. I wanted to get a spool of that but when I was looking nobody locally had it. The Lincoln nr211 is a multi pass t-11 so it’s good to go for multiple passes. I will be diving back into flux core next week so I will see if I can find the Hobart stuff around here to try out. 😀

[@peetky8645]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg IC weld liked it because it seemed to have better elasticity in high stress applications where nr211 often cracked.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

@@peetky8645 very interesting. I will have to lookup specs on the wires. I know gasless flux core has been known to crack in higher vibration applications. I have never used it to repair thick plate, I stick weld equipment. IC weld is the man when it comes to heavy equipment repairs 😀. I have to catchup on his videos.