How much does voltage affect penetration?

[@michaelwhiting878]

Excellent demonstration! I can’t wait to see the wire feed speed version. I am hoping you will be able to repeat both version with 0.035 wire, and perhaps some 0.035 Flux Core wire version for the ultimate comparison of penetration between wire types. I have learned a lot from your videos, and I am looking forward to each one. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and I love your teaching style and philosophies.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I will be doing just that. The .035 roller for my welder is on backroder but should ship in a week. I will be doing a comparison between flux core and hardwire Mig and I am sure the results will surprise a lot of people. 😀

[@johnmacmillan627]

Thx Greg, just what I was looking for!

[@paulnewton943]

Looking forward to the next video on wire speed. New i subscribed for a reason

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

It’s already out, I am still working on setting up playlists so things actually load and it’s easier to find related videos 😀. It’s right here: Does changing wire feed affect penetration with Mig? kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKvNp5iMhMScndE . In a couple days my video dealing with wire welding inductance will be up, along with another new mig welding video. Thanks for your subscription 😀

[@danielww9022]

Greg, please consider a video on using extention cords or even swapping original power cords for longer ones. My HF Titanium stick 225 only has 8' power cord and 8' stinger lead, so I'm interested in options. Thanks.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

It’s funny you mentioned that, I was just building a mini extension cord for the purpose of testing amp draw this afternoon. I also run my welders off a extension cord as well, so I definitely have some insight into this. I put it on my list to film this week so it will be out within a week 😀.

[@jimcaf57]

Greg good stuff ,,thanks for the video ,i guess there is so many variables it could be endless but what would also be interesting is the differance in penetration with the extreme high and low end of inductance also co2vs c25

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

All great ideas and I will be doing all of the stuff you mentioned 😀. I am definitely looking forward to sharing the theory behind inductance and how to use it for your advantage. Many people have covered it but not in the way I will. It’s a very useful tool that’s overlooked for sure.

[@mkearn724]

Nice video Greg. I was kind of expecting these result since the wire speed was remaining the same. I enjoy the content and thanks for the heads up….. I never even realized that the firepower didn’t have an .035 hardwire drive wheel. I even ordered some wire a while ago just to have it on hand. I woulda been a little irritated had I noticed that didn’t have it when I needed it😂. Guess I’ll be waiting on one as well

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I thought the same thing. I had to look in the manual and online to verify. I am prone to losing stuff so at first I thought I just misplaced it 😅. It has .035 flux core but not .035 v groove. I had the wire and everything ready to roll and found out that lol.

[@mkearn724]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg did you order just a thermal arc drive wheel?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

@@mkearn724 that’s what I found that supposedly works. It just shipped out today. I should have it in a few days. Hopefully it will work 😀

[@mkearn724]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg maybe I should wait to place an order until yours shows up and is correct 😂

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

@@mkearn724 probably 😅. I should have mine by Friday this week or Monday next week. I will let you know what I find out 😀

[@reedsmetalworks6664]

Good stuff👍

[@justinuzzanti361]

i really wish you did these at the same movement speed so that we could really see the difference.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

The only way to do a more consistent bead than I did in this or one of many other videos I have done is to use a track torch setup. Voltage does not affect penetration after a certain point (basically anything over the low end of what’s ok for the WFS). The bead will neck down with less voltage and widen with more voltage. Slowing down with less voltage will not increase penetration, it will just stack more metal on the the top of the bead. In simple terms if the travel speed was exactly the same with every test, a drop in voltage will only cause a taller weld, more voltage will cause a wider weld. When you’re within range of the correct voltage. When you switch gas mixtures (such as 100% co2, or switch to spray mode with c10) you can see more penetration but that’s due to the change in shielding gas.

[@justinuzzanti361]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg your awesome man! Thank you so much

[@user-gu6nj8lf3w]

Could you comment on generator/mig welder usage. I had a miller 141 and wanted to buy a generator to run it but was told I would fry my mig. There was also the issue with pure sinewave being needed. I now own a miller 142 and it is supposed to run on a generator that can produce a minimum of 5,000 watts. I was also told that if my mig could run on a generator, that my welds would not be the same strength/quality compared to house current.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So great question. I have a few videos I shot regarding this but they won’t be edited and uploaded for a couple weeks. So I will just cover the overall idea, hope it helps: The issue with welders and generators is that most generators produce poor quality output power (dirty power). A light bulb or a electric motor doesn’t care about this. A computer or electronic device will care. Welders now have more electronics than ever before, therefore poor quality power can damage them. This is one of two major issues. The second major issue is power demand. When say a 140amp welder is hooked to a 20 amp circuit, most people think it only pulls 20 amps. This isn’t actually correct, it’s very common for a 140 amp MiG welder to pull 30-35 amps from a 120 volt circuit to output 140amps (I have shown this in videos). The reason this doesn’t trip a breaker is because under 2x the breaker rating (so 40 amps on a 20 amp breaker) they trip on a thermal curve, and the on/off nature of a welder at say 35amps on a 120 circuit isn’t enough to cause a thermal trip. They also “skate” around the electrical code regarding this because they “rate” the welders at output levels that actually are under 20amps pulled (like 90amps output) and not max the machine can do. The reason I bring this up is 20 amps at 120 volts is 2400 watts, and many people think that’s enough to max out a 140 amp MiG welder. The truth is they need about 5,000 running watts to output full power. To complicate things even more the generator needs to be able to deliver all of that to one individual outlet. I have seen many generators that can only deliver 5k watts to two combined outlets and not one single outlet. With those the breaker protecting the single outlet will trip before you could get anywhere near 5k watts out of a single outlet. Speaking of breakers, generator breakers trip much closer to what their actual rating is than household wiring. Great example: my 9500 predator generator has a 30 amp 240 volt plug. A normal 30 amp household breaker would handle 40 amp welding current for probably 35 seconds before it trips. Well the generator breaker trips if the draw is around 33 amps for more than a few seconds. Which makes sense because the generator only has 7500 running watts, and you can damage it if you load it beyond its capability. The quality of the power does matter. Some welders have “power factor correction” and other methods to deal with poor input power. These welders can handle poor generator power better than others. Older transformer based MiG welders don’t really care what the power is. Yes, they may actually output less power and function slightly different on generator power, but they really won’t be damaged. From a realistic standpoint the output will likely be off from running on house power. Modern inverter welders will have a much harder time trying to work with dirty power, and could be damaged. The only way to solve this is to get a “clean power/low THD” generator, or a “pure sine wave” generator. A pure sine wave generator like what I run will run any welder (provided it has the power to run it) with no issue with damaging the welder. The issue with this is they are 3-4 times as expensive than a comparable dirty output generator. So with all that said, the simple answer is if you want to run a 140 amp MiG welder on a generator and get 100% of the performance and longevity as having it hooked to a home outlet, you need a 5k running watt pure sine wave inverter and you would hook the welder to a 30amp outlet on the machine. The next best thing would be a low THD rated generator with the same 5k running watts output. Anything other than those two will likely cause longevity and performance issues with modern inverter welders. If you use too small of a generator expect breaker trips. On my predator 9500 (7500 running watts) it can only handle around 180 or so amps of Mig output before it trips the breaker. Mig takes a lot more power than tig per amp because it operates at much higher output voltages and has a wire feed roller to power. I can get 210 amps out of my tig welder without tripping the generator breaker (the welder is more efficient at converting power and tig requires less current to run). Hopefully that all makes sense and helps you out. If you really want to run on a generator a 5k running watt pure sine wave inverter generator with a 30 amp 120 outlet will run that 140 welder you have 100% like you had it plugged in the wall.

[@markdeitchman8938]

very helpful information Greg. thanks. question: do you find there is much advantage to using C25 instead of C100? in my limited experience, I like C100 better. it is cheaper, and seems to run hotter. when dialed in it doesn't seem to create much spatter. what do you think?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I will be doing a c100 vs c25 comparison soon. C25 operates at higher settings so I suspect it will have more penetration. Based on when I have ran c100 (a long time ago) I remember on 3/16th and thicker material it had more spatter. Probably not from the gas as much as the wires ability to handle the higher voltage. Modern inverter welders have adjustable inductance which I have a feeling will help get better results with C02. I am definitely looking forward to what the differences will be.