Malazan Fan Responds To My Video

[@libraryofaviking]

I absolutely loved reacting to my first ever response video! However, this will be my last Malazan video in a good while! If you haven't yet please check out Taylor's channel: youtube.com/@taylor-kenny

[@taylor-kenny]

Hey I don't know why I didn't see this comment when the video was originally posted :) Thank you for reacting to my reaction! haha

[@ziggymcdougal]

For my part I actually went into Malazan with very few supporting resources. However one thing I think absolutely did help was learning about Erikson the anthropologist, Erikson the short story writer, and Erikson the best friend. I tend to be really interested in the writing process which leads me to go out of my way to learn about writers as I’m reading their work. This was especially easy for Steven Erikson because he is very active within the Malazan community and loves to do interviews and speak with fans and people who didn’t connect with the series alike. One thing people realize especially though Gardens of the Moon is that not only is it playing with narrative structure and tropes in fantasy, but that it’s drawing more from science fiction than anything else. And that’s part of why I think Malazan throws so many people off. Erikson himself is a massive fan of classic sci-fi, especially Dune. While Gardens may have leaned slightly too much on those Dune inspirations, it does illustrate a vision that I think is hard not to respect. In a way he and Glen Cook really reinvigorated Fantasy back during the late 90s with their imagination and willing to draw from entirely different genres. That’s most obvious with how Malazan tackles theme. Erikson has said that theme is the first thing he builds around with his stories and he uses it as connective tissue for everything. From characters, relationships, encounters, events, and occasionally the world itself. Some people who go through the series tend to believe that the worldbuilding is the greatest focus. I do think this is slightly harmful to the enjoyment of the series but different people do look for different things in fantasy. The world however is colored and even anthropomorphized through Erikson’s anthropological background and it does give the series a very distinct feel with few real world analogs, as cultures feel entirely their own. But I think looking out for patterns in how characters behave or the situations they find themselves in will go a long way. Like with a lot of classic sci-fi, characterization is indirect and inferred through how they act and think, or play off another. Sometimes they will think one thing, but do something entirely different. They contradict themselves in a way that feels totally human. For me they take the best of both approaches for Erikson’s writing. They can be both incredibly psychological and empathetic, while also being very symbolic and can forward the themes of the story. I could go on about the sci fi DNA in Malazan but I do want to end with a personal anecdote. A lot of the time the people I recommend Malazan to that struggle with it the most tend to be the ones with a lot of fantasy experience, which occasionally leads to them dropping the series. On the other hand I’ve had quite a few friends who have very little experience reading fantasy literature and are close to finishing the series. I think what may be happening is that because they have very little basis for what fantasy literature is “supposed”to be like, they don’t really have a comfort zone to be stepped out of in the first place. And it leads to them more easily accepting the confusion and the indirect characterization. Sci fi readers I’ve noticed as well acclimated to Malazan very quickly. All this to say that I’m not arguing that Malazan should be rebranded as sci fi, nor do I think that’s even the *most* prominent influence in the series. Malazan draws from many many sources like Black Company or The Things they Carried. Nor am I saying the best way to enjoy Malazan is to not read fantasy. It’s like trying to organize various animals into families, and species. And there’s nothing wrong with forgetting and moving on with a series that didn’t connect with you. And everyone has a line where too much is too much with respect to stepping out of their comfort zone. I do think, though, that Malazan especially is a series which pays to understand the type of mind that went into its creation. You learn how the world itself can play into Malazan’s themes, characters, and philosophies. You learn about its very particular style and readiness to experiment and challenge norms in genre fantasy. And you learn why he puts so much of himself and Esslemont into writing these various friendships and brotherly bonds. Or why he chooses to explore gender the way he does. It can be very rewarding to interface with that aspect of Malazan and I don’t think any amount of explanatory resources will help someone enjoy the series more. I do think that more than any other fantasy series though, Malazan really clicked with me the moment I learned more about Steven Erikson as a writer. Hope this helps anyone that stumbles on this.

[@JazzInATinCan]

Creat comment, learned somehting.

[@TowerBooks3192]

A shame not everyone will like Malazan but such is life. I have to say that 150 pages into book 8 and I love how it feels epic when all the characters you have been reading about crosses paths. Their banter and interactions are epic. The list of characters you will love grows longer as you progress the series.

[@libraryofaviking]

Maybe one day I will get back to it!

[@FTUD734]

Good to know it does all converge. I'm on book 5, loving it btw, but it's like every book we just get dropped off in a new place with new people

[@TowerBooks3192]

@@FTUD734 Now picture this, you got an empire on one side of the world called Lether and another on the other side of the world called Malazan. Now imagine the people from either ones crossing paths.

[@seanhalpin87]

The ending of deadhouse gates is phenomenal

[@toastytowns]

I am also doing video series on Malazan (doing my first reread currently). I’m certainly in love with the series, but it’s very obvious to me why someone wouldn’t like it. I disagree completely with the “you need to be older” argument and “good things come with struggle”. There is a difference between a difficult read and a struggle to enjoy something, and with entertainment its not worth the time if you aren’t enjoying! I also don’t agree that “all will be revealed” point. All is certainly not revealed, and that’s just the authors style! If you aren’t hooked at all by Deadhouse (where I fell in love) , no reason to waste your time! This was a great, respectful response!

[@TeddyAtTheCreativeNook]

To be honest, I don't think you should force yourself to read something your not enjoying, just because the ending's meant to be epic. (Could always read the last couple of chapters first, to see if it's worth putting yourself through it again - not something I would personally do, just ta thought)

[@dlasis]

Lol. You can’t do that with Malazan. The meat of the story is sprinkled all over the pages. The story is not linear and the last few pages will not make sense if you haven’t read the entire book.

[@nathanernsting7539]

Love the back and forth in a respectful manner! Currently in the middle of Deadhouse gates myself (I think I will finish). This weekend I had a conversation w a neighbor and we realized that we both like a lot of the same epic fantasy. Eventually he asked me if I had heard of Malazan and it turned out that he’s also currently on Deadhouse gates for his reread. It was mind blowing to meet someone in real life who both knew about Malazan and was reading the same book as me! Thanks to you and all the booktubers out there for the inspiration!

[@libraryofaviking]

Thank you! That is crazy. I started my channel since I felt a longing to interact with other people that read fantasy. Pretty unbelievable that your neighbour is both a fantasy reader AND reading Deadhouse Gates!!

[@nathanernsting7539]

@@libraryofaviking indeed!! Definitely a special moment.

[@JazzInATinCan]

Hope you got through it !

[@nathanernsting7539]

Made it though Deadhouse as well as Memories of Ice since I posted the original comment. MoI had such a good payoff in my opinion. Loved it. And can’t wait to continue.

[@timholland1764]

Really great video. Love that you guys are very respectful to each other, and I agree with points that you both make. As a first time Malazan reader (halfway through book 3), I definitely feel lost at times. That said, I'm really enjoying myself. I think the two most valid points that you both make are that not all books are for all people, and that people's life experience has a big impact on your enjoyment of a book. I'm a huge fan of George r Martin's books, and Malazan is very different (i.e. tons of magic, gods that plan active role, etc) but similar in some other ways (emphasis on themes and philosophical issues). I think you should give the book a break and come back to it in a few years.

[@jamesmacleod9382]

The first book made it tough to continue but after about a year and finding most of the series in a thrift store at once ( I took it as a sign) I restarted it and it's quite good. I'm on "The Bonehunters" now and actually recognize most of the characters that pop up.

[@JazzInATinCan]

Great video. So cool that you spend time acknowledging another persons defense of the enjoyment of the series, huge respect for that move. This series is so far my favorite literature - but I do also agree that it's style is very much to the subject of taste, and not liking it is completely legit. Personally I felt like getting handed some lone puzzle pieces in a general style i found very intriguing, and then being fed more all the time. They kin of fit together in isolated sections that spreads out tendrils... and then suddenly one tendril from one floating section of the puzzle connects with another from another section and you mind is blow by the vastness of this world. But you gotta love that heavy style. It's like if you're reading LOTR not don't like scenery description or slow pace non-action - you're gonna have a bad time. Also: The ending of Deadhouse Gates spoiled will be just that - spoiled, it holds no significance if the receiver is not invested in what lead up to it. Just like so many other books :)

[@Talking_Story]

I go through such wild swings about this series from wanting to get into it to staying away at all costs.

[@realrecognisereviews]

Great video interesting to see two opposing view points especially as ill be starting malazan soon

[@laiquende9971]

I love Book 3 and it has completely gotten me into the series. However I don't think it would be enjoyable as a content creator who has to read multiple books rather than one series for a year

[@TheReadingVagabond]

Im halfway through book 7 and I can actually say it’s the most enjoyable series I’ve ever read. That being said, I love how much you have to invest and consciously make an effort to understand what’s going on in this story. Especially when Erikson’s own characters will try to lead the reader astray. I get how a lot of people may not enjoy this. If it’s not for you, then you should defiantly move onto what is!

[@Wouter_K]

Just stopping by to say that the end of deadhouse gates is phenomenal! And like I said before, if it's not for you (at this time or anytime), that's just how it is. :)

[@alexworley5935]

I'm on book 8 of the Malazan series and it's EASILY one of my favorite series of all time but I do understand why someone might not be able to read the series

[@mladenkulic446]

Nice and calculative reaction to response video.

[@tgibridays]

I'm totally with you Johan. I've read the first two books and I just don't know if I want to continue. I didn't really think the ending of Deadhouse Gates was that... Amazing or anything. So far I haven't been blown away and I don't know if I'm ready to delve into Memories of Ice which is even longer than Deadhouse Gates which I already felt was bloated. I'm still planning on trying to read book three this year, but I have taken a decent break.

[@laiquende9971]

Book 3 has finally worked for me. I liked Book 1, didn't like Book 2, but I'm loving Book 3

[@tgibridays]

@@laiquende9971 oh hey! That's encouraging. Haha I liked Gardens quite a good bit, so maybe I'll have the same experience.

[@sayantanmazumdar3]

Haaa... I never thought that I would have an opportunity to say this. Booktuber beef! Booktuber beef!

[@DuckRon626]

I'm 82! How much older do I have to be?

[@safinan8008]

Hi 👋 an interesting video…. Malazan is one series that you like or you don’t like it.. don’t force yourself reading something you don’t like…. Happy reading to you 🎥📖

[@adriancojocaru7096]

I think you should try to push to the end of Deadhouse Gates. You are already 70% done... then you will experience that famous ending and see for yourself :)

[@JLchevz]

Memories of Ice is one of the best books I've ever read. It is A Storm of Swords level of good.

[@DarkestHour752]

A response video to a response video! I love it! @libraryofaviking keep up the good work love your channel! Maybe we can get a video of him responding to you responding to him responding about you?

[@bryson2662]

I assume you're gonna cover gene Wolfe next?

[@ernstbrehm1135]

I definitely come down on your side with my Malazan experience. To his point about enjoying if you’re older? No, I’m 51 & it’s just not for me!

[@merendalrendar2073]

I think of Malazan as the “scotch of fantasy.” It has a lot of depth, it can be an acquired taste, and it’s not for everyone. And it’s just as valid as any other type of beverage/well written fantasy story.

[@erickmarrero4848]

Very well said, and that’s the reason why I enjoy this series over the wheel of Time Even though my friends, tell me wheel of time is the best

[@HardcoreCasualGW2]

And like those who don't appreciate Scotch, they find Scotch enthusiasts insufferable in their tendency to portray Scotch as something more than other drinks. Having said that, in the case of Malazan it's easy to hold it above comparison. There are hundreds of linear fantasies out there, written in an easily digestible format so that you know what you're getting within the first few chapters. Most of them will throw you a plot twist or two to break out of the predictable mold and most feature complex and compelling characters, but Malazan really stands out in the sense that it may be the only series I've ever read where you can be literally halfway through an epic 10-book fantasy series and still not have more than a vague awareness of where you're going and no idea of how you're going to get there. Whether or not that's a good thing is, of course, subjective. But it does stand out in the crowd if you can appreciate that aspect of it. Good luck finding it anywhere else in the fantasy genre. Of course, it stands out in other ways as well. Where many writers develop complex, morally grey characters, you are generally meant to assume a moral bias toward them. It gives a sense of up from down in the story. But it's rare to find a series written in such a way that it almost entirely avoids providing you that bias to the point where the only thing that's clear is that there are no heroes and no villains here, only characters that are part of a story that's bigger than they are. In this sense I think Malazan is unique. So, if you can appreciate it you're unlikely to find that anywhere else in the genre. Of course, if you don't appreciate it then you're probably glad that's the case and you wish those Malazan freaks would stop talking about it like it's the Holy Grail of fantasy!

[@erickmarrero4848]

@@HardcoreCasualGW2 with me that’s the thing that draws me to the series and why I want to continue reading it and with the wheel of time I tried time and time and time again to read it I could never truly get into it just when I thought I was enjoying it. Something came along and stopped me from enjoying it. I just think the series is too long for what it is and that it could’ve been for book shorter and would’ve told the same story.

[@libraryofaviking]

👏

[@avantgardenovelist]

expecting to understand a philosophical novelist + not having gone deeply into philosophy = futility and disappointment.

[@berserker8884]

Hey, since you seem to genuinely want to see what this world is about and why people love this so much, you COULD actually start elsewhere, NOT Book of the Fallen. There is a lot of conversation in the community where one could potentially start with the Malazan world and that maybe Esslemont could be much more approachable to people who bounce off of Erikson when they first try reading these series. So, if you are at all interested, and I don't actually expect you will read any of the books below, but I still wanted to put it out there for anyone that would be interested: 1. Paths to Ascendancy series. It is an on going series by Ian C. Esslemont about how Kellanved and Dancer came to power and formed the Malazan empire. This is much more straight forward, focused and pure fun. Lots of Malazan fans think this could be a brillaint entry to the world, just like how say Mistborn is more accessible than Stormlight. It's true that some references will go over your head, but obviously the same is true for first time readers of MBotF and many argue that it is much "worse" in MBotF. And also, if you first read this, then you would gain A TON of understanding for the world, so if you would ever decide to go back to MBotF, it would be much easier to follow. Esslemont's style is also more accessible to the average fantasy fan than Erikson's. That said, Esslemont is not similar to Tolkien or Jordan at all, but comes more from the Howard, Moorcock, Gemmel and Glen Cook camp of fantasy writing. 2. The God is Not Willing by Erikson. This is the first novel in the Witness trilogy that Erikson is currently writing. It is set about 10 years after the Book of the Fallen. Its much more straight forward plot than MBotF, has AMAZING characters(though you are not connecting with MBotF characters, so idk?) and an absolutely gripping story. You get A LOT of Erikson in this short book, while it also being easier to understand, because it is not that epic in scope. Warning: it does spoil some small stuff. Though that stuff would probably be pretty difficult to piece together anyways, becuase you won't have the context. On a similar note, some small lore things probably wouldn't make much sense either. Most importantly: the series is about repercussions of the actions of one of the biggest MBotF characters, Karsa Orlong. He first appears in book 4 and The God is Not Willing mostly deals with the aftermath of the really egregious crap he did in book 4. But again, its not difficult to understand and you don't need to read MBotF to enjoy this book. I've been pleasantly surprised by several people enjoying TGiNW as their first Malazan book and I was NOT expecting such a response! 3. Novels of the Malazan Empire by Esslemont. It wouldn't recommend these for starting off in general, but heck why not? Specifically, Night of Knives is a short novel about how Laseen took over the empire in that 1 night. So the whole book is set in Malaz city, where the empire originates from, and is completely an action/horror novel. Though this is Esslemont's first published novel and he has improved as a writer a lot since. This book is simply a great fantasy book that is fun while set in this wonderful world. Plus, it's a quick read. In general, Novels of the Malazan Empire seried follows a plot that has to do with the empire directly and is in a sense indepeneded from MBotF, which has a completely different focus. MBotF is about a very specific event in the history of this world, all the books leading up to this thing, and Novels is something different. However, the two are connected and often characters that mainly take place in one series appear in the other and vice versa. I would say though that MBotF is more standalone than Novels. Warning: if you possibly read Night of Knives and decide to continue on in this series, the next book is Return of the Crimson Guard. This book takes place AFTER the events of The Bonehunters and wouldn't make much sense to read for a beginner. Also, it might be the novel with the most complicated and hard to follow plot in the Malazan world. Gardens is a piece of cake in comparison. 4. Then there is also the funny stuff. Namely, the Bochelain and Korbal Broach novellas. Nothing much to say here really. They are hilarious and fun quick reads and not a lot of "story" here.

[@CarrotVision3DCarrotsAreVision]

I dissagree about how seperated GotM is from DG. At least a third of the book is directly following about a third or so of GotM. Sorry.

[@manzanogianni4935]

Age or intelligence have nothing to do with it. One’s own life experiences does play a role but it plays a role in whatever you enjoy reading. What I find critical, though, is time. Are you willing to dedicate more than 2 weeks to a book? Are you willing to dedicate possibly a month to a book? With that said, would that schedule fit with the goals you have for your channel? These are the questions you should ask and answer for yourself before returning to Malazan. I don’t think you should DNF completely. Just shelved them and return to the series later. What you read should never be influenced by anything other than what you enjoy and are interested in reading. Life is too short.

[@krzysamm7095]

We all have different taste, that is why we have so many different types of genres. If one book or sets of books don’t gel with you then just move on. Life is short and difficult enough with day to day things that if you are hate reading a book ( forcing ) yourself to then really what is the point?

[@annmoore321]

I also think perhaps that Malazan is a series that leans very literary. The dark sides of humanity, the deep thought provoking questions, and the morally grey characters all remind me of books I read for my English degree in college. If that’s not something you enjoy, it’s probably not for you. I swear, the only reason I have been able to stick with it so far (I’ve read the first two) is because I have had years of reading and analyzing literature that is similar in nature mixed with my love of the fantasy genre.

[@Henry-jp3mc]

Malazan is like mustard on my hotdogs. I keep going back to try it but never like it.

[@caewing85]

I will not be reading Malazan. Too much work for not enough payoff. I don’t have time for that. I feel the same for Wheel of Time. I’m attempting to read to book 4 of WoT, but jeez the characters drive me nuts.

[@noname3609]

Book 5 and Book 6 of Wot are amazing too!!! ❤

[@elektrik_exekutioner6822]

What do you nean, "too much work"? It's a book. You read it like any other book. There's no more than with any other book.

[@caewing85]

@@elektrik_exekutioner6822 some books are harder than others to read. Especially with world building- if I understand correctly, Malazan has a massive world and cast of characters. In the season I am in life, that doesn’t sound fun to me, so it’s work.

[@elektrik_exekutioner6822]

@@caewing85 I don't understand. How is a big cast of characters work?

[@kadenrounds8363]

I recently read gardens of the moon and it was fine, but the writing for paran in particular fell off hard in the end, can’t decide if I’m going to read the rest yet

[@4LegCrotch]

Yeah, Paran is a very weird character in the first book, I never clicked with how Erikson wrote him in that book specifically. But he becomes a very enjoyable character in future books

[@angelaroberts-757]

Wow, you triggered that guy! Reading is supposed to be enjoyable and if its not, what is the purpose? That said, reading is subjective. Its ok to not like something that someone else does. You have the best attitude about this. Good for you, but if you dont like something, you dont have to read it, no matter what someone else says.😊

[@libraryofaviking]

I wouldn't say triggered. I was actually really happy that someone that loves this series gave a rebuttal because that allows readers to make a more informed decision! Thank you for the kind words!

[@captainnolan5062]

To be clear, you have read 655 (Gardens of the Moon starts on page 3) + 418 (halfway through Deadhouse Gates) = 1,073 unique pages. It is on you that you re-read about 400 pages of Deadhouse Gates, perhaps needlessly. You would have finished reading Deadhouse Gates if you had started reading where you left off (approximately page 400) and read through to the end (it contains 836 total pages). Why not just finish reading Deadhouse Gates (a further investment of only 400-ish pages), and then if the phenomenally amazing ending does not encourage you to read the wonderful third book, then put the series aside until you are 40 and try again later.

[@samm8190]

I was hoping from the thumbnail that you had brought Taylor on for a full convo on it.

[@libraryofaviking]

Oh that could be an idea 👀

[@RichardHolliday]

Hi Johan! 👋 As a non-fantasy fan I don't have a real dog in this fight BUT I have casually observed your interactions with the Malazan fanbase and you have my support! Even if I was interested in the series, the general attitude of the fanbase would completely turn me off. Why your enjoyment (or lack thereof, despite clearly making more effort than perhaps seems reasonable!) matters so much to them is bewildering! There's plenty to read, and what you're doing doesn't stop the fans enjoying the books. Keep doing what you're doing and enjoying what you enjoy - you don't need to defend or justify your thoughts!

[@francb1634]

"Why your enjoyment ...matters so much to them is bewildering! " To be fair, Johan made videos that specifically addressed Malazan fans and asked them to comment on his lack of enjoyment.

[@JazzInATinCan]

This is so true. I love this series, but people should not spend their time on it they don't like it. I felt it was worth it when I read the first paragraph, and have not felt differently since. Trying to tell people that it "will get worth it 3-6000 pages in" doesn't really make sense.

[@TeamCarbos]

Hot take, because my interaction with the malazan have been great. Never seen a more mature, including, understanding and helpful bunch of normal human beings. Most refreshingly normal fanbase. But i guess it depends on where you interact with them? The facebook page, forum, and youtube channels are just choke full of nice people

[@JLchevz]

Oh man the ending of DHD changed me forever. Think you know war, pain, battles and suffering? My sweet Quon Tali child, you are in for a surprise.

[@myself2noone]

I mean, I've read about Nanking in WW2. I doubt it's more terrible than that.

[@twistgaming3089]

As a huge malazan fan, I would be remiss not to admit that many of the books have a slow buildup and pacing issues. The first half of DHG is a little bleak, slow and rough, though it does pick up a lot about halfway through. Many of the books have this similar pattern: slow buildup into breakneck speed convergence in the last third of the book.

[@PokeJoshNY]

I was actually just in the same position you were. Personally, I loved GotM but when I tried to read DG, I just found that nothing was clicking with me. Like a week ago I was halfway through and thinking about putting the book on hold for a bit, but I just decided to start reading more after a short break and holy crap does this book get good fast after the halfway point. Feel free to DNF this book if you just genuinely don't think you will enjoy it, but I think if you're capable of it, pushing through to see the second half would be a much better indicator of whether Malazan is for you. (but don't take my opinion too seriously cuz I haven't even finished the second book in this series)

[@karenlowe9283]

I didn't find malazan confusing i just stayed in the moment and felt it was epicly big, did not have the pov of say wheel of time or lotr where you see new things through the world of stark kids or Rand. I did feel i connected more with characters that shone through like tattersail, but you were dropped in in the middle of this turmoil conflict and saw it no different to a sci-fi book like dune. Throwing words out like a gom jabber

[@JuiceEternal]

Its like reading a souls game lol

[@jimlahey6330]

Despite how relatively polite this guy was I find it very funny that he labels disliking Malazan consistently as a failing of the reader and not a difference in taste. Or even that the way Erickson tells his story isn't the end all be all of story telling and might be flawed in some ways.

[@FTUD734]

I'm currently reading Malazan and loving it, but I understand people finding a disconnect. Every book is just all new. There is no build-up of knowledge to get an inkling where the story is going. But the author gives you plenty to chew on even if it doesn't all seem to fit together

[@kah-thurak]

Erikson does not follow the approach to character writing that became hugely popular with ASoIaF and WoT where you are completely in the thoughts of the characters. You see his characters more like (though not completely) you see other people in real life, where you can never really 100% know what moves them. Whether you like this more or less is just personal taste, but I think some people have gotten so used to the now „standard“ approach and cant deal with anything else anymore, which is pretty limited.

[@BreinGames]

A reaction to a reaction to a reaction of a book. Why is this not a plot line in malazan?

[@thatoneguy986]

This video was from a while ago, so no one will probably read this, but I want to give my input anyway. First off, I don't think anyone who has read all ten books of MBOF would ever say anyone else is not smart enough to read it. Those that do must be trolls. Looking at the history of my library account, I checked out Gardens of the moon on Nov 27, 2017. I finished The Crippled God last night, on Oct 27, 2023. I never reread a single book. I think expectations play a lot into reading Malazan. I love the Dark Souls video games. So I searched out books that people thought were similar to Dark Souls games. Two book series were repeated very frequently, The Black Company and Malazan. I read TBC first, and really enjoyed it, but MBOF was exactly what I was looking for. MBOF spartan kicks you into the world, and you do have to be a peace that you will not understand everything at first (much like Dark Souls, as you have to do some....digging...to work some things out, though it is written by an anthropologist so that does make some sense). Anyway, I heard you talk about the ending to DG and how good it (supposedly) is, but I'm going to be honest and I don't really remember the ending to DG, though I can tell you the ending to just about every other book in the series. Personally, I was hooked at the end of Garden's of the Moon, as my response to it was "I have no idea what is going on but I want to know more". Having a kindle helped, as I could search up names while I was reading to refresh myself on previous events ( I never used any online resource to help me get through the books). Eventually, I got my wife to pick the books as well and she can not put down book 9 at all now, after DNFing both book 1 and book 5 during her journey. I describe Malazan to people as a collection of novellas connected by a collection of short stories. That format is a little tough to see at first because of the smaller collection of characters in the books at the start, but as the series balloons I feel like that is a really good explanation of the writing style that goes into it. I do think that the sentiment that you need to be older to appreciate MBOF is wrong though, but I think that wherever you are in life does sort of inform your tolerance to the style that Malazan is. I think Malazan is for everyone, and I do hope you can enjoy it someday. It's something you should just try every now and then, and eventually I think it will click.

[@nathanclark484]

He wont push through for continued clout.

[@philrobb1809]

Gardens of the Moon was a hard read at first... The dissemination of information regarding the plot was next to nothing. Most fantasy series start from a simple point, where the plot is established in an obscure way, and the characters come into their own, and we enjoy that journey with them. Malazan does this in reverse. We don't care about the characters we are introduced to at the start, as they are already developed. We are dropped into this fantasy world on the opposite side of our preconceptions. This is my favorite fantasy series of all time. For the majority of readers, it is like Cilantro (the herb/spice). You either love it for how great it tastes, or it is like soap in the mouth (look up about why people hate or love cilantro and you will understand :) )

[@bluejayandrooster]

I get a bit frustrated when people say Malazan is not difficult to read, or say that people who question its accessibility are wrong to do so. Even if some of the storytelling methods Erikson employs are common in other genres, that's kind of irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that it's a fantasy series, and so people who primarily read fantasy that also pick up this series have some basic, fundamental expectations about format. Erikson doesn't just play with those expectations, he throws them completely out the window. If I didn't feel like they did ultimately impact the way you read the third book, I would probably just suggest that people skip the first two, because you almost won't understand anything in GoTM, and Deadhouse Gates, while better, is still (or at least for me was) a struggle. And I say this as someone who began to absolutely *love* Malazan in the third book, and continued to love it from there on. I adore the series. I can still acknowledge why it's difficult to get into, and feel frustrated on behalf of people who constantly have to be told that it's not. It's not like that kind of thing changes anyone's opinion. It just makes them feel frustrated with themselves for not having "gotten" it! That said, I think he is right that Memories of Ice takes things to the next level. That book is absolutely bonkers. 🤣

[@marsrock316]

Suggestion: skip Deadhouse Gates and start reading Memories of Ice. Most readers rank it as best or near best of the entire series. If MoI leaves you cold, then I'd say you can legit drop the series. MoI is also a direct sequel for Gardens so you'll follow some familiar characters, whereas DG shifts the story to another continent a set of characters.

[@carole5648]

i don't want to pile on here...but i do think you should at least finish Deadhouse Gates before you make your decision about the series. DG was my least favorite of the whole series, but the ending is still epic and better than most of the other books i read.

[@rastrich]

I'd maybe add that it's probably more fitting to replace "experience in life" with "reading experience". And by that, I don't mean how much one has read in his life, but more how they read. Malazan throws you out of the comfort zone of books, that are easily enjoyable and understandable more or less, from start to finish. Books that are written to please the reader in that *one* way. But there is way more in literature than that... Just think how Poetry will not please you in the exact same way, a MCU comic book will. And that totally normal. (That obviously being a terrible comparison, but maybe you get the point) So if you have already learned how to enjoy different forms of text and literature, Malazan won't be that special anymore. Same for if you are just accepting that you have been thrown out of your comfort zone *by* Malazan and now have to figure out, how this different style/type of literature works and how it is enjoyed. That's what many people mean with Malazan having changed their way of consuming media - it just shows you, that there is more out there, if you learn to adapt. But as it always is with this sort of adapting, it is hard and almost impossible to force it. If certain things in your current head/mind space just don't add up in the right moment, it might just not work right there... Well that's just my rambling and some thoughts I have after having struggled a lot one/two years ago (and now Malazan is one of my favorites of all time... How the turntables haha)

[@TeamCarbos]

I have to point out, because it made me curious. You say you struggle to relate to characters? What exactly do you mean? Is it like none are relatable, or that you cant put yourself in their shoes, or? Because if its just relating to characters, Im not sure i fully understand. I love malazan, I dont relate to a single character. I love Dune, and I dont relate to a single character. I love Brothers Karamazov and Demons, I dont relate to a single character. Cant even put myself in their shoes. That doesnt take away my enjoyment of the story, nor my appreciation of great characters. Help a brother out, because I need for you to finishing the books, talk with fellow youtubers about them, and make videos about these first videos in hindsight

[@klaymoon1]

Wat?? You don't like Malazan? I'm done with you. Un-sub'd. Just kidding. Malazan is my top 3 series right along with The Wheel of time and Dunn, but I will be the first person to admit Malazan is not for everyone. I fell love with it within 10 mins I picked the first book.

[@Rendref]

I just want to say again, I finished the whole series, and no, things don't start makinig sense at the end. Plotpoints abandoned, plotpoints that make zero sense, obfuscated motivations, all continues to the very last pages of the last book. Sure, some things make sense. But so much shit does not. So much stuff left unexplained and in the result I felt like there's no real pay off or resolutions of plot points don't bring any satisfaction or joy. It might be rewarding for peole who are okay with such a tapestry of unexplained and convoluted mess that you have to untangle on your own for years after finishing the series. But I am not okay with such an approach. It is something to think about. That being said, philosophy and parables in some of the latter books are amazing, for sure.

[@raswartz]

It's all good.

[@flyingpickle7]

no hate bro u just dont get it

[@burton1ify]

MALAZAN!!!!!

[@Caladan-Brood]

Too many words.

[@GeekofMordor]

Malazan is too cheesy. Not a fan of DND so maybe that's why I dont like it. Raptors with Sword hands. I'll pass

[@RuthanBadd]

Malazan is terrible!

[@libraryofaviking]

😂😂 I never said that 😅

[@seanbester1465]

The ending of Deadhouse Gates was forgettable. I forget the entire thing. In my head I just assume a bunch of mains died and were resurrected, which seems to be the only thing that ever happens. Memories of Ice was worse.

[@auqua6477]

My experience of Deathhouse Gates was so different from yours. I struggled through it and the ending hit me like a brick. I kept thinking about it for months afterwards. 😂