Malazan | In Defense of Felisin

[@stevelundin5705]

Steven Erikson here. Thank you for such an impassioned defence of Felisin. Much appreciated.

[@Mastervgl]

Hello, Mr. Erikson - or Lundin, as it were. Though I am certain this is but one of hundreds, if not thousands of messages you receive on the daily basis, finding you outside of Facebook and other more populated social networks is a difficult opportunity to let pass. It's quite likely you have heard multiple times before, but it's important to let you know that your writing style, your world of the Malazan empire and its environs, and the characters you have created have inspired and led me to pursue my lifelong dream of being a storyteller, and a professional writer. I admire you, respect you, and thank you deeply for the narrative wonders you've brought upon our world and hope for many more to come. After all, what are three million words between friends?

[@gracelesspassion1750]

Thank you for making characters complex enough that we can discuss their motives, reactions, and desires near endlessly. Really glad you enjoyed the video!

[@feral7523]

Baudin should have let her know he was her minder as soon as they boarded the ship, might have saved her a lot of messed up skullcap nastiness.

[@mikouf9691]

The summary coincides 100% with how I feel about Felisin (and Baudin and Herboric). I love the Itkovian quote. It inspires me as much as The Fellowship of the Ring's passage: "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."

[@oniflrog4487]

My first reaction when I find these people that hate Felisin is to think that they have never encountered the sequels of abuse in their lives, ever... not themselves, not anyone they are close to. It's so frustrating. Felisin's is the first foreshadowing character arch of the series. It contains the core of the series summarized in it. I know I've been saying this for months(maybe close to a year now?) but your channel is severely underrated, Graceless. Keep it up.

[@gracelesspassion1750]

It's incredibly difficult to empathize with abuse if you have no experience with it, especially when the person being abused is putting up a strong front. It's all too easy to take words at face value, which is part of the reason I think Felisin gets such a hard time from fans. We have to see past that, especially when we're only given little hints. Thank you for continuing to watch my videos :)

[@burnedtrails1706]

​@@gracelesspassion1750 Funny thing is... with the whole series being centered on compassion, either these people find their own transformative journey as they read further and further or their compassion is poop. Felisin is one of my favourite characters because you get to witness not just her survival mode and reactionary behaviour rooted in trauma, but her own thoughts... and her perception of self goes deeper than what others may think. She knows she hurts people and she regrets it. And she gets hurt herself, and so reacts. Broke my heart, how she died. Poor Parans...

[@OneMoreMeme_INeedYou]

Thank you for making this. This is the the fan content Malazan needed. Felisin really connected with me and broke my heart, so I am glad to see people who understand and defend her. In my mind, she is one of the most central character in the whole series, for the way she sets the ground work for the themes, emotion, and narrative to come. The way the drama unfolds with Tavore, and the subsequent exploration of her as well, is my favorite aspect of the series. Erikson put a lot of love and care into the story of those two sisters, and it shows.

[@gracelesspassion1750]

Absolutely! My heart breaks every time, I think the saddest I've ever been while reading was the ending of House of Chains. Especially with how that loops back around towards the end of the series

[@OneMoreMeme_INeedYou]

I most emphatically agree. The way those two scenes run in tandem is a series defining moment for me.

[@chaz9808]

the moment i softened to Felisin is when she held baudins head in her lap as he died

[@anangryscorpion5838]

Really excellent stuff! I've often told people that Felisin is in fact, one of the most selfless characters in the entire series. Tavore I think, is also quite misunderstood in the early portion of the series, particularly in regards to her supposed betrayal of her sister.

[@gracelesspassion1750]

Really glad you liked it! Yeah Tavore gets a pretty bad rap early on since we only see the events from Felisin's point of view, and she just doesn't understand why everything is happening. It's rough as hell. We don't even get the full story until HoC but I love the reveals, especially since we never get the PoV of Tavore :)

[@whiskeySe7en]

I hated felisin the first time through, even though I knew the devastation her life had endured. The second time I didn't hate her but I resented her and her choices. Third time took me alot longer because my heart kept breaking for this poor little girl. The fourth time through I found that I couldn't fault her anything

[@musicfiestadude]

Thank you, great arguments for more compassion for Felisin. On my first read I had no problem understanding why she acted the way she did. Hope you continue to talk about the continuation of her journey through the books.

[@bryson2662]

Thank you for this. I am guilty of having no compassion for Felisin on my first read-through. Since then though she's become one of my favorites. Agreed with everything you said

[@gracelesspassion1750]

I'm glad you liked it! I'm also guilty of disliking her quite strongly originally. I ignored her parts on my first couple rereads, but when I finally gave the full writing my attention again it hurt so bad.

[@SnakeAndTurtleQigong]

Thank you so much! 💙 We flinch away from her pain, and choose distaste rather than understanding.

[@marceloeduardo2240]

"Armour can hide anything until the moment it falls away. Even a child. Especially a child." Felisin's whole storyline is so miserable, so painful to read about, but it's important.

[@princeindriann]

Love this video!!

[@gracelesspassion1750]

Thank you! I was a little worried about this one, but it's something that's bothered me for a long time.

[@omnitheus5442]

Great video. I completely get Felisin having some connection to the darker and much poorer side of Africa. Many many girls are living like Felisin to feed their families. These girls/women are incredibly brave living on the edge putting their bodies on the line over and again...

[@TurdBurgerz]

Just found your channel. When I first read the book she was my favorite character immediately. Her story was tragic, yet she still carry on. I didn't know she was hated until I went to the subreddit and the forum...which is honestly very sad.

[@gracelesspassion1750]

I agree, it's horribly tragic. Especially when people seem to willfully ignore how she was manipulated by the goddess. I originally planned on reading a few comments and offering rebuttals to them specifically, but they just got me too upset.

[@deebzscrub]

The first time I read Deadhouse Gates I really did see Heboric and Baudin as being the ones looking out for her and I was frustrated with her for lashing out at them despite them being there to help her. I also think I didn't truly grasp how young she was when all of this happens to her and it really went over my head the fact that they were really planning to leave her behind at Skullcup. I think I just rationalized it by telling myself they were planning to bring her all along and didn't want to tell her for fear of the plan getting to Beneth and leaving her there was a last minute call based on their (absurd) perception that she had come to enjoy her life there. The second time through her age really struck me and I felt so much more sympathy for her. My first time through I kind of just imprinted my own age onto her (I was ~20) and while that would still be a horrible fate at that age, it seemed... I don't know more manageable? I still didn't really grasp how terrible Baudin and Heboric were to her. In hindsight it's insane to me that I could have possibly missed it. I'm working through the series the third time and this time I actually picked up on this and while I never really liked Baudin, I kind of started to hate him for it. My impression of him had always been that he was looking out for her from the shadows but was trying not to give away the fact that he was actually her guardian. Poor Felisin.

[@mikouf9691]

I'm new to Malazan. I started reading in January and I just finished Deadhouse Gates 2 days ago. The Felisin hate I've encountered surprises me. All I see is someone in pain. On the other hand, I had a serious problem with Baudin. I understand that he was hired and that it probably wasn't safe to reveal to her that he was her guardian until they had enough privacy so other people wouldn't find out. However, by the 2nd time they were sharing living quarters, why didn't he tell her? Why leave her with the impression that she was trapped as a slave for life, without any hope of escape? I wasn't sure if it was out of dislike or pettiness or indifference some other reason, but it really bothered me. That knowledge might have altered some of the choices she felt she had to make. Especially if, as Baudin claimed, that her pimping herself didn't help them and that Beneth just let her believe it did. Truthfully, I wasn't sad when Baudin met his end and I'm waiting to see what happens with Herboric in future books.

[@cynthiaholmes5124]

@@mikouf9691 I definitely agree with you about baudin I didn't feel anything for him when he died

[@zadig08]

This is very insightful. Thank you so much. I have a much clearer picture of her now.

[@Maiqel]

What an insightful take on the tragedy of Felisin. I agree with you completely. I felt a lot of compassion for Felisin when I read DG, and that huge heartbreaking moment in HoC. But couldn't help to dislike her as well a little bit... And I thought maybe it's OUR coping mechanism to deal with her tragedy. It's really hard to empathize with her, not as in difficult, but as in painful. So I think that when she does anything that we can disapprove, we hold on to that to think that after all, she deserves it, and feel a little relieved that such a tragic torturing isn't that tragic after all. This is of course unfair and insensitive. As you say, she's a survivor trying to deal with her (gigantic) share of shit, as would any of us. God damn, excuse her fot not being Jesus fucking Christ!! I would like to see how many of those who lash at her would act as perfectly benevolent beings after going through all of that shit. Well, actually I wouldn't because it would be a horrible thing and their crime is just being emotional readers... As Itkovian said ... In abundance.

[@gracelesspassion1750]

Thank you for this comment! I think you hit the nail on the head with that, the things that happen to her are so horrendous we might naturally be repulsed from empathizing just from how horrible it is.

[@sw3dge]

Great character, even when it's hard to read her. It's painful to see their hurt push them each away, further cementing their positions separate from one another.

[@dennistoft8458]

Really good video. I agree completely with you. I have been speaking out for Felisin sometimes in the Facebook group. But your explanation is a lot better than my Facebook comments.

[@gracelesspassion1750]

Thank you for helping defend her :) I'm glad that more and more people are doing so!

[@omysadat]

Great video. I agree mostly with your take, I would only be more emphatic in the point that these were two grown men and a girl beginning adolescence. I really can't imagine what they expected of her, especially Baudin who was aware of the situation and had agreed to protect her. They each had attenuating circumstances but still, she's just a child and everyone in the book failed her horribly, especially the ones that "cared" for her.

[@xCalicxe]

This is such a great video! I am guilty of disliking Felisin immensely in my first read through, but I have to say im a 200% Hebori-bro and anyone talking about turning him into tatted-jerky or pork chops will earn my ire :P That being said, I hated what the poor girl had to suffer through and with each subsequent re-read and examination of her circumstances I feel for her more (still hard to like her tho). Side notes..., I thought her parents suicided... or am I misremembering? And on the topic of food and work, I remember Hebs and Baudin saying that the alleged "extra food & easy work" she was acquiring for them wasnt really given and Bennith was just telling her what she wanted to hear rather than put effort into doing anything. Its not something we can confirm or deny out of hand. The trio's communication in regards to this (where she tried to help and didnt get the appreciation she thought she deserved for trying to) probably caused her to lash out and withdraw from them even more, as you already mentioned. A lot, of the issues with this group I think stemmed from a lack of clear communication between them, with their actions, intentions and goals (as frequently happens in reality). I do think you have been a little harsh on Hebs and Baudin, none of them were "friends", they hardly knew each other and they were all sharing a crummy situation, but this at least balances things out with how harshly Fellisin has been treated by readers :P Thanks for this wonderfully crafted and awesome video!!

[@gracelesspassion1750]

Sorry about this, I had a really long reply typed out and apparently KZbin ate the comment when I hit reply! Along with the communication issues, Felisin got really attached to Baudin and Heboric since she was desperately clinging to whatever she could as her life crumbled, whereas Heb and B never really formed that attachment to her. I really don't blame them for what happened, it was just frustrating to read some of the comments I sifted through, oof. As for her parents I definitely got that a bit wrong. It seems her father died from the illness he was struck with, but we get two opposing claims about her mom. One says "She elected to join her husband" implying suicide, but Felisin says her mother was made an example by Tavore, which I assumed to be executed. Heboric's story is amazing though, love seeing how he is developed throughout everything. I'm very happy with his redemption (In my eyes at least) in HoC.

[@xCalicxe]

​@@gracelesspassion1750 Thank for the reply dude and no worries :D sorry that Yt ate your comment. Ahh yes I remember now! (In regard to the parents) Another ambiguous lead and its hard to say either way which actually occurred with the mom, it does reek of the Claw and their assassination tactics (but im still unsure if Tavore would have been the one to give the order tho) And yeah , I agree, so much frustration and heartache in their journey

[@cynthiaholmes5124]

Felisin is my favorite character in the series so far I have only read the first four books in the series I don't understand why some fans have such a hatred for her I totally understand why she behaves the way she does she is a child who has been raped and betrayed by people who she cared about who was supposed to love her and protect her she has endured so much trauma

[@Cieges]

Thank you really. She’s far too hated. Great video man. Now if only every felisin hater would watch it n then maybe give her a chance

[@gracelesspassion1750]

If it helps change the mind of even just a couple, then I'll consider the video a great success. Glad you enjoyed it! :)

[@Furniture121]

Great explanation of why Felisin is a sympathetic character, she suffers a horrible fate through no fault of her own. Her story isn't particularly "fun" to read, but it certainly adds to the story. In defense of Baudin and Heboric, expecting compassion for an abuse victim and addict from an assassin and a priest of war is setting yourself up for disappointment. Also bear in mind that both of them are suffering as prisoners in the mines as well, despite their suffering not being the highlight of the story. How long as someone suffering under horrific conditions would you remain compassionate toward someone who doesn't outwardly want your help?

[@gracelesspassion1750]

I completely agree with both your points! :) I tried covering it a bit towards the end, it was a really horrible situation for everybody involved and I can't blame individuals for looking out for themselves. My issue really stems from abandoning someone that was trying to help you (Even if she wasn't succeeding) and with how Felisin haters always say that Baudin and Heboric "Saved" her. Just really rubs me the wrong way, since I feel they pretty blatantly tried leaving her to be a slave. I don't want anyone to hate H&B though, since they were just trying to survive too. Makes for very interesting reading! Thank you for the comment :)

[@InnerMedium]

I just finished reading Deadhouse Gates. I cant say that I hate Felisin but the feeling I get is one of confusion. It doesnt feel like any of the interactions she has are personal or earnest. It also feels from my end that she changes quite abruptly. Going from a rational girl doing what she has to, to a drug addict, to a prisoner with stockholm syndrome, and finally a girl willing to kill a person (Baudin) she initially thought of as found family. It baffles me that her and her two companions never discuss their situation. Where is the conversation about how she feels at the beginning about Benneth, where is Heboric asking why he was switched to tilling from pulling the carts, why doesnt Baudin tell her that her intentions are in the right place but unnecessary, and where is Felisins acknowledgment that Heboric/Baudin didnt have to bring her in their escape plan.

[@garyodom6574]

Watch what you say about my little sister. Master of the deck

[@WarrenBettencourt]

Hey I have a video request can you do a video on demons its something I wonder about as it seems confusing with some clearly being organic and physical beings while others are just straight gods.

[@gracelesspassion1750]

Yeah! That's actually something I'd really love to make a video on, but it will take a little while. I'm working on a Chain of Dogs battles series right now, but I'll do a demon video after that! :)

[@WarrenBettencourt]

Dude it's fine the chain of dogs is amazing and I loved reading about it so take your time

[@gracelesspassion1750]

Chain of Dogs is amazing, and if you loved it I'd suggest checking out something called the March of 10,000. It's about a Greek Mercenary army that gets abandoned behind enemy lines in Persia and has to try escaping back home. Gives me pretty strong Chain of Dogs vibes, and is a real life event. Here's the first of a 2 part video about it if you're interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rampeWV6rLN5qbc

[@WarrenBettencourt]

So I was looking at random stuff,do you think malazan could be translated into a tv show

[@dalegaliniak607]

I always got the impression that Heboric, at least, was grateful for Felisin's help, but she was erratic and spiraling. I think most of what we saw as Heboric's judgement of her was coming from Felisin's pov, and with how Heboric stuck around in the following books, made me think that she wasn't all that reliable of a narrator. Sure, there was a lot of bitterness from Heboric, but that came after a lot of lashing out towards him by Felisin, which _did_ start in the slave camps. She thinks nice things, but most of what she actually says at that point is mean. Also, keeping her out of their escape plans made sense, too. Sure, she helped them, but she was also an addict by that point. I'm not sure if Heboric and Beladin could trust her to _not_ to turn them in, if it meant getting her next fix. A typical fantasy novel would have this be the start of her redemption arc, but reality would probably her shuffling back for another hit of durhang. Eventually addicts burn all their bridges, and I think that was happening here. All in all, I think Felisin was a tragedy, and written a lot more realistically than most characters in fantasy novels are. I think a lot of the hate comes from the realism of her character, because it kind of breaks some of the escapism of fantasy.

[@myself2noone]

11:30 no. That is how some of them think. The majority of abuse victims are not traumatized for one thing. Resilience is more or less the norm for humans and the majority of people who are abused come out of it without severe issues. For another thing. The majority of the time, people go back to there abusers it's for very practical reasons. Things like a husband refusing to get a divorce form his abusive wife less a family court take his children away and put them with an abusive parent. Or fear of retaliation. Lack of other options for some people, usually women, who haven't worked in a while. Very real reasons. Not made up brain stories. Agian. What you're talking about can happen. But the majority of abusive victims are people. People who are just as capable as you of understanding the reality of the situation. And recovering from them when they, hopefully, get out of it. That said Felisin's story is probably the first thing in this serise I've actually liked. Her story, well not the norm, is a kind of story that happens. And because it's far more of a character drama there are a lot less boring action senes. C+. It was better than ok.

[@drcaldwell76]

A couple of points that hit me in your video. If you are planning a prison break do you include the wardens lover in the plan? Doesnt Boudin mention he thought of dragging her along when they were ready? Just because someone has been through the fire doesnt give them permission to burn down the world. She was horribly used, so was Heboric punished for a crime he didnt commit. I cant defend any of these characters.

[@Lotus_Lenex]

Beyond like/dislike of the character, have to really respect the meticulously crafted character arc.

[@abcarlson3293]

If you can be understanding of Felesin then you should be able to do the same for Heboric...Baudin will always be a questionable character lol.

[@abcarlson3293]

Also, if I was in Either, Heboric or Baudins shoes and the person I was supposed to be helping chose to be one of her captors crack who'res then I'm probably not taking the rediculously large risk of forcing her to escape...against her will... It isn't difficult to understand either position.

[@gracelesspassion1750]

Of course! I really do feel for Heboric, I'm not trying to say he was a horrendous person. He most likely wouldn't want to leave Felisin if the choice was only up to him. My anger was meant to be directed at people who pretend Baudin and Heboric were wonderfully nice to Felisin (Completely ignoring that they did try to abandon her too). I personally really enjoy both Baudin and Heboric, everyone was in a terrible position. Sorry if it didn't come across well :)

[@sweetlard2113]

Excellent content. I don't see much in the way of folks on my side of the fence (Felisin is both deserving of our compassion as well as our contempt). So, I'd like to offer this brick of text to address why in a manner that actually reasons it out. Felisin is 14/15/16. For the record, she keeps getting called a child in discussions supporting her character. She is not a child, she is an adolescent. This distinction matters in so far as you will allow it to (transitional period into adulthood). I’ve read DG a couple of times now so it's fair to say I'm approaching an understanding of the cause and effect nature of Felisin’s personality insofar as it's presented in book 2-trauma having shaped her (beginning with suffering the first *injustice*…depending on whether or not one approaches the morality of the original culling from the stance of input or outcome). What happens to Felisin after the culling are certainly a slew of morally reprehensible actions, some of which are acts exacted upon her, some of which she determines she must enact upon herself. This distinction is also important. That said, let’s discuss why Felisin does not pass snuff/why she doesn't meet my standard to be respected. The question is: “what separates those who overcome the trauma and live life meaningfully from those who suffer at length” and let it eventually destroy them? Is it as simple as age? Sex? Time? Capacity? No. Of course not. I admit to being reductionist in what follows, but I’m not here to persuade you, only to try to extend a bridge so that even though we might disagree, we can at least understand one another (and dispense with the false and frustratingly presumptuous "if you feel this way you must not know any real survivors of trauma/ever sustained prolonged abuse yourself" narrative): For Felisin to overcome her chains of victimhood, she must overcome her “feelings of helplessness, hopelessness, and low self-esteem. She must not focus on blame, and she must avoid moral self-righteousness.” There is a line from a poem that goes: "It's okay to grow your wings on the way down." But she *does not do this or even try*. She does, more or less, the exact opposite. And when you're going downhill, you go faster and faster. Part of compassion is wishing to alleviate the suffering of others, but it's awfully hard to help those who refuse to help themselves. Felisin does not overcome her trauma; she embraces it knowingly as poison to both herself and the people around her (even her moments of “helping others” are viewed internally in a self-serving way [that which can be as easily taken away as given come her capricious whims], though I can forgive that since philanthropy is motivated by self-interest as a rule). She does this embracing of trauma, I think, as a means to feed the ressentiment (her sense of “weakness or her inferiority complex and perhaps even jealousy in the face of the "cause" [subjugating power] which generates a rejecting/justifying value system, or morality, which attacks or denies the perceived source of one's frustration”: Tavore/order/control. Is it any wonder she becomes the leader of the apocalypse cult?). So, she feeds this ressentiment to pave her unerring way to vengeance against, to drive the point in, *Tavore and what she represents*. Felisin chooses not to overcome because her motivations are not interested in living meaningfully. They are, and she is, interested only in destruction (mutually assured if that’s what it takes). So, when I say Felisin chooses to not “overcome her self-image of victimization” what I mean is that she chooses to remain bonded to being a victim in order to justify/feed her subsuming drive for vengeance. Felisin lacks a sustaining meaning, champions bitterness, vengefulness, anger, destructiveness, and we’re excusing that and are willing to claim she is a respectable character? Again, do I understand her motivations? Yes. Can I sympathize with them at some level? Yes. Can I empathize with her? Am I willing to wear her skin, to feel and understand? Do I feel compassion for Felisin? Am I willing to be a co-sufferer. Yes-after all, I did carefully read her chapters more than once and thought them through with care. What occurs to her seemingly without choice, and her autonomous choices both, left me deeply saddened. But to what degree that sadness was pity..well. And so this is where I diverge because I will not let my compassion justify or excuse her means. Is this pejorative judgement? Absolutely, but it’s absurd to assume that at any point one is not exacting this manner of judgement--we build up or tear down instantly as individuals are texts we read. We use what information we have to deem worthiness. By way of example, I would expect most, with little hesitation (snap pejorative judgement: unworthy of compassion), to not feel an abundance of compassion for a serial child murderer. One is deemed worthy of our compassion or not more often than should be the case; there’s no two ways about it. Without it we’d let permissiveness run entirely out of control. Felisin has earned my empathy, but she not earned my respect for the reasons above, and I will not simply give it to her or accept her choices because she has suffered so. Respect and acceptance are not compulsory, nor should they ever be; however, I would say that I agree with the notion that compassion should be freely given without expecting anything in trade. I would agree that is requisite for redemption. But this does not traverse over to respect, which is earned, nor acceptance. These are more complicated and come after. As a final point, Felisin is not acting in a vacuum either. There are those around who try to offer her consolation. Heboric tries to render her various losses more bearable by inviting “some shift in belief about the point of living a life that includes suffering. Thus, consolation implies a period of transition: a preparation for a time when the present suffering will have turned (sound familiar?). Consolation promises that turning.” But, Felisin denies this possibility, and she does it *on purpose*. To sum up my feelings: Felisin is repulsive to me, and my wife (who has a long history of working with trauma survivors and emotionally disturbed soldiers) both. We have talked this out at length. Our intense dislike of her has absolutely nothing to do with her sex, and everything to do with her choices when she does have agency. In addition, negative responsibility is worthy of our consideration for all characters, Felisin included. “An agent is responsible not only for the consequences she produces by her own actions, but that she is also responsible for consequences that she allows to happen by other agents or events she fails to prevent other agents from producing.” In the end, I agree that "compassion is a requisite for a meaningful existence and civilized society". But so too with what Silverfox says: "In all that is to come, think on forgiveness. Hold to it, but know too that it must not always be freely given." All said and done and in the inestimable words of the Dude: that’s just like, my opinion, man.

[@darkportents9835]

This is a great video but look I can't blame Heboric and Baudiin for excluding her from plans. she fumbled the initial offer for escape, completely forgetting that she'd been approached for help. she's addicted to opiates and under the control of an abuser who is tied in with the command structure of the slave mining facility. it's a huge risk to let her know ahead of time of their plans. I'm all for treating Felisin with compassion, but as a character from another franchise would say, regarding Baudiin and Heboric keeping her in the dark "You have to be realistic"

[@darkportents9835]

oh okay yeah it is bullshit that they say they don't think she wants to come with them but do we really expect an assassin and a historian in a pre industrial society to be experts on the way abuse victims respond to abuse and trauma? Letting her in on shit would be a huge risk. if she really didn't want to go as they wrongly assumed she could get them killed

[@gracelesspassion1750]

@@darkportents9835 I don't blame them for not telling her about the escape plan either really. She's a 14 spoiled noble girl, why would they let her in on the secret? However your point about fumbling the initial offer for escape doesn't work. She didn't fumble anything, she had NO idea that was an offer because she had no idea there was a plan for escape. A random soldier told her to look up a book, that isn't going to mean anything to her. I'm not expecting them to be experts about trauma by any stretch of the word, I am however expecting them to have a shred of decency about her getting raped and abused, instead of just belittling and shaming her. Baudin isn't naive and sheltered. He KNEW exactly what Beneth was doing to her, and how he was doing it to many other young girls showing up to the camp. He did nothing to stop it or even try telling Felisin about what Beneth was really doing to her. Like Baudin or not, that is extremely fucked up. I like him a lot based on his history and other actions later on, but Skullcup is completely indefensible, especially since a lot of people argue that Baudin was saving her.

[@gracelesspassion1750]

So yes, for keeping her in the dark, that is very reasonable. And a no for giving the boys a pass on neglecting a girl that was being raped and abused. Thank you very much for the comments! Hope you're staying warm (If you're affected by this winter storm)

[@darkportents9835]

@@gracelesspassion1750Yeah overall I agree with your video. As I watched more (after I made the above comments) I came over more to the side of holy shit heboric and Baudiin did her dirty. I also watched this video specifically because someone asked my podcast "Who is your least favorite character and why is it Felisin" and they were shocked that I said "actually I have a lot of compassion for Felisin" and before we record our first Deadhouse Gates episode, I wanted to be steeped in a bit of argument for why I support Felisin in this way rather than just my instinct to be compassionate towards her. When we get to the last Deadhouse Gates episode I'll link this video in the shownotes if you don't mind.

[@gracelesspassion1750]

@@darkportents9835 Thank you for sticking up for her! :) There are so many worthy characters for least favorite, though I find them all fun to read. Good luck with the podcast! Drop my some links in the comments, and I'd really love to have this video linked! :)