Man Thinks He's The "Main Character". Faces The Consequences.

Main character syndrome, amirite?
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Intro 00:07
Sponsor 01:09
Stories 20:43

[@CritCrab]

Hey all. Sorry for the drop in quality. Getting back into YT is like getting back into an old video game and forgetting how to play. Im rusty. Next video I will re-add the crab walking sound effect and the chapters. Till next time.

[@davidmays8974]

It's all good. The video was good.

[@davidmays8974]

Well I'm only a few minutes in but it's been decent so far.

[@catlover.triangleheadprod4887]

hey, you did your best. Yeah you may have forgotten somethings but you still made a great video.

[@Elidaawesome]

I'm here for the funny stories and your dulcet tones. Anything else is just a bonus

[@HotrashMain]

its fine

[@baval5]

Hey man, im gonna give Main Character Paladin guy some huge credit. He had his character thrown off a tall tower, told his backstory was all garbage, and was stripped of his class and instead of rage quitting the game or complaining he picked up a spear and climbed back up. Thats pretty cool, and im glad to hear he became a better player later.

[@CocoWantsACracker]

Totally agree. It makes me believe that he was basically standing his ground on his original character idea, but accepting the in-game consequences - two treats I can appreciate in a player. It sounds like he redeemed himself both in and out of character!

[@titssnitchtzeentch649]

Honestly, the dm just handed him a banger of a backstory, it's basically Kratos from the God Of War series (minus the divine bloodline)

[@flameofmage1099]

​@@CocoWantsACrackerHe is truly the Mantheon

[@pensandshakers]

I would read that book series.

[@SocraticMayhem]

@@CocoWantsACracker Ig cause nothing sounds cooler than spiting a puny god, honestly sounds cool as hell. Stripping of classes tho is kinda harsh but im glad it turned out okay.

[@genericname2747]

I genuinely want a story about what the first player went through. Someone who believes they're destined for great things, only for the promise of power and heroism to be a lie. They're nothing but a pawn in a battle they do not understand. They survive by luck alone, and have nothing. They are nothing.

[@Nyghtking]

Thingslike that are why the Leonen want nothing to do with the gods.

[@n0vabubble867]

I liked where it could have gone if he chose to continue with that character. It seemed like a big character growth moment

[@walmartiancheese4922]

dude yea

[@n0vabubble867]

maybe they could have also used it as an opportunity for a title maybe "forsaken Paladin" and get a different attribute, affinity, or item from among the bodies of his predecessors. getting a new path to walk compensating for the decrease in power and loss of divine energy.

[@n0vabubble867]

couldn't be an oathbreaker since the god is the one that took the initiative in stripping the paladins power if thats how it works, I don't really know what players do to deal with having divinity taken without choosing to be an oathbreaker.

[@roonilwazlib9877]

I know that "DM" typically means "Dungeon Master," but in that second story he must have thought it stood for "Door Mat."

[@IWADsarecool]

*XD*

[@Opinare]

or “direct message”

[@IWADsarecool]

@@Opinare or deathmatch

[@bronzeboi3392]

true that guy was just horrible at DMing

[@wafudramon]

i was searching for this

[@Sanodi21]

The druid is literally that kid that no one wants to play with because he keeps coming up with bullshit rules out of nowhere so he can always win. I'm surprised the trash took itself out but it's gone regardless.

[@NeoVault_]

Agreed. Honestly I hated those types as a kid.

[@powder479]

I'm not sure what can or can't be done considering I'm not familiar with 3.5e, but that doesn't change the fact that this guy should have been booted way sooner. 🤷🏻‍♂

[@Sanodi21]

@@powder479 What should have happened was the DM stepping in far earlier and saying 'No' and nip it in the bud.

[@RiveroftheWither]

​@@powder479I have played a decent amount of 3.5 and I can tell you that he was just straight up cheating, the stats he had, his "usual spells", all way overpowered homebrew spells and magic items, probably from the d&d wiki because hes probably not smart enough to make his own. 3.5 let's you get damn powerful but not THAT powerful without pulling major bs.

[@joshuataylor5080]

The entire reason we sit down to play is to have fun. When someone goes this far to ruin it for the other players, you as the DM have the responsibility to END IT than and there. I've seen people booted (rightly) for less.

[@MisterNightfish]

Druid: Shapeshifts into a legendary ape, wielding a holy greatsword (which he gifted himself) and other magical items Paladin: Has a wooden shield that costs 1 gold Druid: Now, let me explain why your wooden shield is bullshit and you shouldn't have it This would have been the moment where I as the paladin would have fallen, in game and out of game.

[@cinderelenn]

The legendary ape having class trait its just plain funny, the guy makes it clear he made it up just to win lol

[@Quackra]

@@cinderelenn let's also not forget that wild shape states this, "The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with," which in lore means that they did the impossible and cheated on something that small.

[@BadassHater1]

Druid literally acting out the worst Sun Wukong power fantasy possible

[@rogirek3362]

Be a war paladin. Suffer no fools, break no oaths.

[@fishraposo7192]

"The only thing I'm going to break more than my oath today is your spine"

[@tmage23]

PP: "I don't have to explain anything to you!" DM: "You do have to explain it to me, though"

[@markfreenick]

Dm in second story just cant handle group administration, maybe he used too play only with chill nice players before or i dont know.

[@rootyful]

And here is the crux of the problem, because the DM seems to never have asked that. Or did anything else besides say 'fine'.

[@rouliettapouet9213]

@@markfreenick Yup. like, I don't even understand hwo the bullshit wisdow stat was accepted to begin with. When you are the DM, you are in charge of balacing things, and clearly , if you have player like this, either you tell them to stop and redo their charcater WITH you, or their are booted out of the table. Plenty of players to find anyway, or you just rebalance encounters for less players.

[@UltimateChaos233]

This is bonkers to me because if I came up with some really cool optimization/rules mechanics interaction I'd be thrilled to talk about it until everyone's ears fell off, lol. But I can see how if someone was cheating they wouldn't want to explain anything.

[@IWADsarecool]

* y e s*

[@midlevelgamer]

"I don't have to explain anything to you, I only have to explain to the DM" The DM proceeds to not make the cheater explain and allows the game to be ruined

[@rizerek]

I thought this the WHOLE time. If I was the DM and heard a player being a tool like that, I would have immediately been like "ok, then explain it to me right now."

[@KittenChristy]

I swear 98% of DND horror stories are the DM's fault. Either they don't understand the rules, are ignoring the rules, or are refusing to enforce the rules. I've never had a problem character like this, because I approve the sheets before hand. I straight up can smell that shit coming, and I tell them "You're asking roundabout questions. Tell me what you are trying to do and I will tell you if I'll allow it, plain and simple. If I can't allow it or it doesn't work like you think, we can try to change something for flavor to bridge the gap. You can make the whole character and gamble it, but just know that if you try to pull something dumb and it doesn't work how you think it does I'm not changing your stuff for you later." I want players to have the character they want, but they aren't going to be level 1 and single handedly one shotting creatures meant to take 2-3 rounds for the group to kill unless they have a huge flaw. No mary sue's.

[@midlevelgamer]

@@KittenChristy I think it's 50/50. DM's are always in the position to shutdown any shitty behavior but sometimes they either don't or they're the ones behaving shittily

[@fred_derf]

This, 100% this. I was going to post this but knew someone else would have already beat me to it.

[@fred_derf]

@@midlevelgamer, Rule #1: the DM's decisions are final. If a player has a problem with it they can discuss it after the game (between sessions). Rule #2: See rule #1. Rule #3: You do not talk about Fight Club!

[@FrogCreature]

This first player clearly showed a disillusionment with the game, we grow up in a world with solo protagonists. And some times the DM has to slap the Player across the face and say “HEY! NO! SOCIAL GAME! SHARE!”

[@jackmack4181]

The DM punished him for being an asshole but still gave him an olive branch

[@realdragon]

Maybe it's just not the right group for the player, 1v1 game with DM might be better option for him

[@calebadam2576]

​@@realdragonThe way the resolution was spoken sounded more hopeful than that, or at least I like to think so.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

​@@jackmack4181 Which I think is the best way to go about such a situation.

[@finnmchugh99]

"You ain't playing skyrim, you playing Guardians of the Galaxy!"

[@Lazysupermutant]

Honestly the first campaign has given me an idea for a character; an unsuspecting farmer digs up an idol and becomes the "chosen One" of an incredibly obscure god. Like "Ishbalam, God of Weasel Removal" the farmer isn't sure what he's supposed to do as a chosen one, and frankly neither does his god, but he's doing his best while his patron is just making it up as he goes along.

[@supernova9361]

don't mind me, just gonna steal this

[@genericname2747]

"OK, I'm the chosen one. Now what?" "Bro idk, I haven't had a follower for millenia. I've just been going around kicking weasels"

[@Yorigami32X]

That's fire

[@estebanaguirre965]

"do you... do you want me to kick weasels" "hey hey hey, that's MY thing, you can go save a village from a dragon or something, idc"

[@akmi1931]

Yeah, a God that suddenly has a Champion, who neither needs nor wants one, is an absolutely amazing concept

[@seanchan4478]

Not only is the dm to blame for not kicking this problem player, but they're to blame for letting them in the first place for not checking his charcter sheet before hand.

[@ZedMazaus480]

Avreed. Even as over powered as 3.5 ED was it couldn't explain all the bs abilities the druid did. Even if another player asks its polite to let them know what you're doing so they can plan accordingly. You know strategize. Unless you're character is trying to do something in secret the other PCs are going to know what you're characters doing, or at least to make checks to know what their doing. Which I highly doubt he was preparing anything in secret. He just wanted to cheat and solo it like the marrysue that he is. If this was a 5th ED game this is way worse cheating since there is nothing in the books that allow/give access to anything this guy was doing. If at any time this guy was told by the DM to show his sheet/resource and refused. That's when he should have been told to show proof or to hit the road.

[@SolarFlarehorse]

Yeah, I dunno about the second story. If this dude is pulling spells and abilities out of his ass to do shit and the DM's not sitting there going "Hey, what the hell? How the fuck are you doing that, where are you getting these rules?" Then the DM is kinda at fault too. Way too many of these stories happen because the DM lets dudes get away with shit for the 37th time before they ever actually do anything about it, if at all.

[@vladgdc]

@@SolarFlarehorse no kinda about it. Weak DM.

[@gutscross9706]

THIS, every time the story goes forward, im like so the dm allowed that? just said they could? jsut let them do that bear form? i don't need to explain to the other player, is a red flag, that may lead to some interesting stuff later if done well, but in this case what???? cause seems like it wasnt explaned to anyone, and pretying on a dm who didnt know how to say no, if there was a link behind what they said

[@JRook-00]

​@@vladgdcNo, worse than that. Idiot DM. Possibly Illiterate DM. 3.5 Veteran here, been playing that edition for almost 20 Years; Any grapple attempt against a creature two size categories larger than you automatically fails. States it clearly, almost word for word in the special combat actions section of PHB1. Would have given dude one warning, then told him to kick rocks if he argued.

[@lovely_poekie]

Seriously, everytime the second guy said "I don't have to explain anything to you" I was waiting for the DM to come in saying "But you have to explain it to me"

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

Quite. I'm always amazed by how adverse to conflict everyone in this story is and how accommodating the GM’s are of this crap.

[@mrvoltem9379]

​@@Lobsterwithinternetits because everybody is afraid of conflict, afraid of simply putting their foot down and saying "No!", because of the lack of spine that most of these horror stories happen.

[@Nightwalker170]

The Crux of this is that the DM likely already knew exactly what the mighty morphin power bear was doing. Bear dude was a asshat, but he was following the rules. This falls squarely on the DM. It is 100% possible to run a successful game with this kind of player and accommodate the rest of the party. It's also 100% possible to bring them to heel in game without killing the party. Last, and I do mean last resort, if a player will not listen to reason just ask them to leave. Hell, I've been asked to leave games because the fact I'm straight made the rest of the party uncomfortable. No harm no foul. Anyway, as I was saying, at the end of the day the DM is the final arbiter. This one should have handled the situation from the word go.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@Nightwalker170 But how do we know if he was following the rules when he refused to allow the DM to check his character sheet? Seems pretty suspicious to me.

[@Nightwalker170]

@@Lobsterwithinternet I base it mostly on personal experience, and the personality combined with the type of play exhibited. Not one thing the guy was doing broke any of the in-game rules. The only time he refused to explain anything was to other players, which believe it or not is entirely valid. I even have a fair idea of his 'usual spells' just from the description. The problem was bear dude's personality and how the DM dealt with the situation overall. If the DM had had a actual problem with the shenanigans outside of player feedback, he'd of stopped the whole thing at character creation.

[@huntywunty]

not gonna lie...... what the paladin in the first campaign experienced makes for a very interesting backstory and i think im gonna steal it

[@Dice-Z]

Honestly if i was that guy i'd be like, yo, you're actually giving me an actual epic tragic backstory for a character determined to end both gods? Let's goooo. Perfect to turn the character into a bitter antihero.

[@TowerArcanaCrow]

​@@Dice-Zsounds like a badass runup for a chaotic neutral or good Oathbreaker

[@TheMonkeygoneape]

he basically becomes Kratos its awesome!

[@flowercrown-eevee]

I agree that feels like it would be a fun character to play as.

[@duskgaming18]

​@@TheMonkeygoneape The Pala- I mean, Fighter when he reaches his former God:"ZEUS! YOUR SON HAS RETURNED! I BRING THE DRSTRUCTION OF OLYMPUS!"

[@mightymanatee5342]

Pretty sure the "That Guy " in the second story was cheating. His refusal to explain how his abilities worked and where he got them from were big red flags. Add to that his insistence on using the same methods in every fight means he has pulled this crap before and is likely the reason he was looking for a new group.

[@magnuska1611]

Given What i have seen from 3,5 most of his abilities seemed possible within the rules i know there is a feat for casting spells in wildshape as well as a feat to wildshape as a Swift action. But he might not have knoen about Them and bullshitted his abilities

[@StilltheAp0llyon]

They sound to me like they got their character off of DnDWiki

[@poeticrapier]

I know the wild casting feat, and if I think real hard I recall there being a feat in the Masters of the Wild book that might have had the monk wisdom to AC feat. It sounds like a legit build, my only issue is the point buy used

[@jaimerivera2382]

@@poeticrapier Yeah, there's no way to get a 45 in a stat without substantial cheating or DM fiat. You can get +6 from an item, +5 from Wish/Tomes, and by level 12, +3 from level ups. Even *if* he started with a 20 in Wisdom (which, with a standard 32 point buy, wouldn't have been possible while having 10 in every other stat and a 20 in Dex), that would only bring him to 34. And the item and tomes are very expensive - finding someone to cast Wish for you is even more so. On top of that, even after searching around, I couldn't find anything that lets you have four arm in wild shape, or have those limbs be flaming. And while the legendary ape *does* exist in Monster Manual 2, he wouldn't have been able to wild shape into at level 12, as it's 13 HD are more than your levels at that point.

[@mightymanatee5342]

@@poeticrapier Ok. I'm not very familiar with all that D&D has in terms of builds so I could be wrong but it still feels cheap to me. Especially the "tidal wave" of bears.

[@juicegirl2696]

Honestly though the imagery of falling down that ravine is gorgeous. I’m probably reaching far beyond what the DM thought, but it’s perfect. The paladin’s arrogance is quickly erased as he was completely powerless and only saved by others, clawing out with their weapon. The message is seeped deep into both the player and the character. Beautiful.

[@tonuahmed4227]

A beautiful redemption arc...

[@norvillesdingus3917]

The first story sounds like a chance for the player to turn into a Warlock. That would make an interesting origin story.

[@GrndAdmiralThrawn]

If I was the DM, honestly if the guy had left, I probably would have turned that into an NPC. He could be a miniboss now in service to the BBEG god.

[@walmartiancheese4922]

​@@GrndAdmiralThrawnthe story was genuinely really good for what the DM had to work with

[@markfreenick]

It is not always comfortable to redeem bad character concept . Usually after realization players create new one.

[@benjaminthibieroz4155]

A warlock subclass as an alternative to oathbreaker paladin sounds actually nice

[@livingtaco7876]

I'm honestly super glad the DM got through to the player and the player was respective.

[@marvinhubregtse5776]

the moment someone says (and legit means) "i dont have to explain anything to you" you know he's cheating

[@UltimateChaos233]

If I came up with a cool build idea I would totally share all and any details to anyone who was interested!

[@calebbraun9505]

I kinda want to see what a group of main character players trying to play at a table would look like

[@cmhsky]

I just imagine this giant mirror where they all just talk to themselves...

[@Draeckon]

The group would fall apart within a month, with them at each other's throats.

[@pranavghantasala6808]

…Isekai quartet?

[@numimio]

Depending, it could be fun or fall in shambles. The idea that they all try to one up eachother with acts of heroism till the end could be fun, but they could all try and sabotage eachother until one comes out on top.

[@calebbraun9505]

I'm more thinking in a "grab a tub of popcorn and watch the chaos" sort of way

[@Creshosk]

"I only have to explain myself to the DM!" And then the DM doesn't ask for the explanation. That's another point against the DM. He just accepted everything without question.

[@lallen1395]

Man... aside from the main character syndrome, a forsaken and deceived holy warrior sounds like an awesome character arc sounds really cool. Id be happy to play that.

[@MidoseitoAkage]

But make sure to don't follow the same faith of I'm the chosen one.

[@mfbandit7930]

if anything thats what makes it cool actually, having a character that thinks the world revolves around him suddenly realize it doesnt is such a good arc.

[@byrontheusurper6505]

Second story is terrible but MAN having the enemies being overrun by an army of bears and a huge bear with flaming arms is a freaking HILARIOUS visual

[@pedrocto9474]

maybe I'll even try to steal the idea (but actually trying to make it balanced in some way so the other people can have a moment to shine)

[@marybdrake1472]

Yeah, the DM did not handle that well. As a DM you have to make on the spot rulings about certain situations from time time. So the DM should have stuck to the idea that the druid couldn't physically grapple the Balrog.

[@vladgdc]

That DM was weak and bad

[@CocoWantsACracker]

Agreed. The DM has the final say.

[@justweirdout]

Honestly, it feels really poetic and powerful that Main Character Syndrome Paladin guy got everything he knew and wanted stripped away from him and got told he was no longer a paladin and instead of pitching a fit, stood up, grabbed a spear, and climbed back up the mountain. Genuinely feels like a realistic character arc in a real story.

[@v1de0gamr23]

Literally no DM I know would *ever* let a player get away with the phrase, "I don't have to explain anything!"

[@nathanwilkins6107]

Yeah the moment I hear that I’d definitely want an explanation. Actually, I’d want an explanation on how he got an ability score higher than a deity. If I had to guess, he did point buy incorrectly (on purpose), using each point as a +1 in a stat

[@TigerKirby215]

How the hell the DM in the second story let That Guy stick around for *a year and a half* is completely beyond me. That Guy made his intentions obvious from the moment he joined and the DM just let him ruin it for all that time????

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

What can I say? Some people can't deal with conflicts.

[@fdrdevotee]

I'm sorry, but the mental image of a "tidal wave of bears" was just hilarious to me

[@KrytenKoro]

Reminds me of squidbillies. "Too many bears."

[@valerynorth]

The first story was actually kind of a neat in-game consequences for in-game behaviour. Think of it like a movie plot: how many times has a Chosen One been chosen, then had to build themselves up before being ready to take on the BBEG? Even Buffy wasn't ready to fight the vampires straight out the box, she needed guidance and training and experience. Chosen Ones who don't realise they need to dedicate years of their life to fulfilling their Destiny, and that they need a team of similarly powerful allies, often do get squished by the BBEG in their first fight. And in a movie plot, that is usually the point at which they realise how much more they have to learn etc. Exactly what happened here!

[@CocoWantsACracker]

Great observation! I think if the player was humbled enough and roleplayed his change enough, it might even be really cool to offer him a second chance to be a Paladin for another god, who has been impressed by his initial devoting, his resilience and his hard work.

[@fred_derf]

Buffy even had to die, a couple of times...

[@KnightTancred]

Which is why I think Luke Skywalker is a classic, great example of a Chosen One and done right. Yes, he was powerful in the Force, he was (in legend) arguably the most powerful being in the entire Galaxy, but he didn't get there without losing people (Ben, Yoda), finding new teammates and friends and going through grueling training as well as losing his hand to his father Anakin/Vader.

[@Rakshasa1986]

Gods in D&D gain power with more followers. If nobody knows about a god, they will basically fade into nothingness.

[@stress2impress]

Depends on what drives a gods power in a given world. I'm writing up a setting where Gods are the embodiment of a "truth" and as that truth get corrupted, reinterpreted or twisted based on the view of its followers, it has to change or split into a larger pantheon.

[@freakishuproar1168]

Now you mention it, isn't the Astral Plane filled with the mummified remains of deities who were forgotten about?

[@Eric-md3mp]

​@freakishuproar1168 I wouldn't say filled, the Astral sea goes on infinitely, so plenty of space for an unlimited number of dead gods

[@Draeckon]

It varies by setting. I typically don't use that bit of lore background for deities in mine.

[@daviddaugherty2816]

Technically, an overgod like Ao of the Forgotten Realms setting don't need worshipers. They're like the gods of other gods.

[@bradeancheetham7805]

The dm gave the first player a pretty bad ass story thatd set up a great theme to explore

[@nakedmario9359]

What a chad -get anoying player with bs power -humble the player has well his character -give him a badass backstory insted and continue playing with him

[@olakpasa6486]

Thats a fire backstory ngl , might use it on a future , perhaps turn him into a monk after a period of grief and self reflection. Or make him a oath-breaker paladin , not only seeking vengance towards the bbeg , but also his "god" , kinda like Kratos , but less edgy , 'cause no one can be as cool while beeing edgy as Kratos is. Or turn him into the archane arts , seeking enlightment or power on knowledge instead of divinity. Hell , make him a druid or an artificer , since he WAS a farmer , so beeing in contact with nature/tinkering with everyday objects could make a lot of sense.

[@IcarusMundi]

You are not the guy, you’re not capable of BEING the guy! I had a guy but now I don’t! You are not the guy.

[@walmartiancheese4922]

And then they went to los pollos hermanos and everyone survived :D

[@IcarusMundi]

Yes

[@bricksloth2599]

As far as that Balrog fight, you also gotta remind people who take the rules that literally that rule one is that the dm makes the rules. In general though even if the rules technically allow it you have to acknowledge when something is simply ridiculous.

[@sielklavar]

The rules as written wouldn't have even made that possible though. By 3.5 RAW for grapples your hold check automatically fails if the target is 2+ size categories larger than you are, and by the description painted by OP the giant ice balrog was definitely 2+ sizes larger than the druid in wild shape

[@TheKitsuneOnihane]

I adore that first story. That is honestly an amazing setup for a good charger arc. It creates two possible villains. It actually humbled the new guy. The dm was mostly respectful, and tried to compromise properly. I really want to hear the whole story.

[@iiclypse]

I absolutely adore the first one, seeing someone who is so full of themselves be stripped of that, but then somehow surviving through being abandoned and becoming a better person

[@deathbunny1718]

not gonna lie this is reminding me of a guy named Stanton , he never showered , and was a cheater in any game we played . I ended up just telling the Dm I was gonna kill him in game if we didn't just kick him. So we ended up kicking him.

[@projectknm8670]

Cripes, that second story reeks of cheating, ALL of the cheating. And frankly, I'd really like to know what that "explanation" could've been... Paladin: Hold on, how in the world are you doing that much damage? You're only level 12! Druid: I don't have to explain anything to anyone but the DM! DM: Then explain it to me. In front of everybody. Now. IF you wish to stay at the table, that is...

[@StSubZero]

Funny thing is, only when the DM finally grew a pair did Druid leave, as he was enjoying having such a passive and easy to manipulate DM to run his "I'm invincible" fantasy through at everyone else's expense. So when he was like "I don't have to explain anything to anyone but the DM" it was bait to see if the DM would get involved, to the point he stopped including it and simply said "I don't have to explain anything to you." Even if he WASN'T cheating, he was still being a total munchkin. Once he lost that leverage, he didn't have any choice but to learn to play nice or leave. And he chose the latter. Had the DM put his hammer down at the first instance, this horror story might have been missed, but at least now we can all learn from these mistakes.

[@vampwolfchick]

Okay but Oath of Vengeance paladin could have been a really cool way around losing the paladin powers for the first story. My husband lost his paladin powers a quarter of the way through a campaign and the DM did nothing, so he was just a level 16 commoner. No class abilities, no spells, nothing. So being a fighter is definitely better than nothing.

[@lthomason702]

Holy shit that first plot twist had my spine tingly! Being immediately humbled by betrayal and a body of corpses is COLD!

[@dethkruzer]

If a player pulled a "i don't need to explain anything to you" at my table, I'd ask him to explain it to me. Frankly the druid needed a DMG to the face.

[@heybro2305]

Ah a new crit crab video time to boot up fear and hunger and listen too that sweet crab voice

[@rossjohnstone4689]

Amen to that :3

[@PaladinGear15]

I love that game so much, it's horrible XD

[@blobdestroyer1792]

To be fair, 4:44 was actually a fucking sick plot twist. I don’t entirely agree with forcibly changing his class, since that’s like half of character customization, but at the same time it’s an absolutely phenomenal story beat.

[@KitsCloud]

That first one could actually be a really cool backstory. Like imagine having to work your way back up, holding a grudge against your former god.

[@Rheinguard]

Fellow DMs/GMs, please remember your veto power. A lot of this could have been nipped in the bud had the DM/GM just said no.

[@demonderpz7937]

Natural spell in 3.5 lets you cast spells (without material components) in wildshape. Eschew materials lets you cast spells without needing any material components so long as they cost less than 1gp. Shapeshifter's armor is an epic magic item that just requires Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat, Craft Epic Magic Arms and Armor feat, shapechange or wild shape ability, and be caster level 21st to create. This is epic because it gives a +6 AC bonus on top of whatever material it's made out of. This can be extrapolated to make lesser magic items infused with the shapechange spell or wild shape ability to craft shapeshifting items that work regardless of the form you take, provided your gm lets you make said items or you find someone in the game to make them for you. Furthermore, depending on size category, the druid can take items off, wildshape, then put them back on so they don't get melded into the druid's wildshape and become inert, the druid can put the "sizing" property on magic items so they conform to the size of the wearer, etc

[@easiestcc6451]

Still doesn't excuse druid's behavior though.

[@hugo3627]

I can respect powergaming. But what I cannot understand is when someone comes up with some genius op strat, why would they not want to explain it. If I came up with something like this noone could keep me from explaining my evil genius plan. Meanwhile, this guy acts like he is in competition with his party. Realy strange.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@hugo3627Because it isn't a clever strategy, but him cheating with the veneer of the rules to add to the believability if the subject is unfamiliar with grappling rules.

[@StilltheAp0llyon]

All horror stories have either a problem player or a problem DM. When both get together, like in the second story, you get true train wrecks.

[@nickieBurke]

dude the first story sounds like an awesome idea for both a campaign hero, a party of campaigners that were all past paladins, or a villain in any story! first DM was cookin fr

[@shanerasmussen5225]

I have a similar story to the first story here. I had a new player in my group being very disruptive, attention seeking, bit of "main character", etc. Well the party had an audience with Herakles (Hercules), and the player in question was just wrecking the entire scene for the party, like everyone had told him to shut up, etc. Well he decided to be rude to the god, so Herc used a deific power and cursed him with blindness. Then an NPC Pixy that travels with the party cast a spell called "Faerie Dance" on the blind character. This spell makes you dance uncontrollably so blind + dancing = falling down a massive stair in Olympus while still dancing. To his credit the player got into it, miming some of his character's wild actions trying to dance while tumbling down the hundreds of feet of stairs. A couple other characters helped him back up and after an appology Herc lifted the blindness. The player became one of my best after that, even when he was no longer playing a character that Hercules "might" be keeping an eye on.

[@shanerasmussen5225]

To clarify one bit. The Pixy wasn't acting in support of Hercules. The character had tried to put the Pixy in a jar earlier in the session. Now granted that was because the Pixy got the character to drink some wine, which turned his skin purple. That was a fun group, fairly high powered right out of the gate.

[@CocoWantsACracker]

Whenever someone seems obnoxious but (role)plays along when he is being humiliated or punished, I instantly think they're not as bad as I thought. I'm glad this turned out to be the case with your player too!

[@BlazingKhioneus]

I will be honest, the disillusionment of the first story, regardless of whether it was going to make the problem better or worse, was undeniably badass. And color me surprised when he took this wake up call with grace. Good on him.

[@twilightgardenspresentatio6384]

“I don’t have to explain” is the last word I’d have heard from that person.

[@mr.perfectcell1887]

I now want to make a story featuring a character like that paladin who realizes his entire life as some deity empowered hotshot was all for naught.

[@LilypadROA]

I will never not see critcrabs eye stalks as a little mustache

[@ludovicschneider6190]

"i don't have to explain anything to you"... and the DM just sits there, not asking for any explanations? That's more a DM probleme than a player problem...

[@MoldyBones27]

18:37 this is why I love 3.5e because even the DMG says “These are not RULES these are guidelines to create your own world.” That’s how a DM shuts down min/maxers and broken characters.

[@ninguem8872]

Honestly... it's amazing that things even turned out half right in the first story! Kudos for the dm!

[@SpoonieCreates]

This is why the most important rule of DnD is “the DM has final say”

[@khalilismail666]

Right. The DM can't be a punk and has to be able to make unpopular decisions

[@getefix3]

as a paladin, i'd turn him into an oathbreaker, with the chance to find other meaning to redeem himself via a new oath/purpose

[@Mate397]

Honestly the first story's DM did a great job at humbling "Mr Main Character" hell the trope of chosen by [insert god] being flipped like this could work as an actual plot too.

[@redjoker365]

Whenever I make a character with some kind of cheesing or otherwise unusual combat choices, I explain it to the DM to get their approval for the idea

[@timmythestingray1937]

(nothing to do with the main video at hand but i will say i enjoyed it good job) im gonna be so honest with you. i absolutely love the idea of going to the shore line and seeing a cute little crab, and when i walk up to it, and it just starts speaking in the deepest voice i have ever heard bro

[@Kaiser8513]

For the last story as a DM myself if I heard him say I only need to explain it to the DM I would have said "great idea, please do explain it to me as well"

[@Zarastro54]

Second story the guy should have retorted every time the PP demanded an explanation “I don’t have to explain anything to you.” I was honestly waiting for it.

[@greninjastorm6734]

I recently got into D&D with my first campaign run by a coworker of mine, and I'm having a lot of fun. I've heard the horror stories on Crit's and Den of the Drake's channels, but obviously it helps that the person DMing our campaign is awesome

[@CocoWantsACracker]

A DM that creates an enjoyable experience for you is definitely a huge part of the fun! I'm happy for you that you found one who does exactly that! I have experienced 7 DMs so far, 3 of whom did completely different things that made me enjoy their games less - one hogged the spotlight with an NPC, the second was hellbent on not letting any of the player characters die (so players would just rush whatever huge monster he threw at us) and the third just lacks creativity and the ability to reward creativity by his players. I am sure there are players who would love to play with either of them, though.

[@Anduril74871]

Honestly, while that may not have been the ideal solution in the first story, a "paladin" who is only being used by a deity to slay his brother is a pretty awesome plot hook!

[@32ekoc]

Im so glad you mentioned the GM. When you said the player asked how he did that and he response "i dont have to explain anything but to the GM." I can't help but think, then why isn't the GM immediately asking the right afterwards?

[@locarno24]

Exactly. Unless it's a PvP campaign your fellow players should be told exactly what you're doing from a rules perspective, and asking 'ooh, that's cool, how does *trick* work is a perfectly valid question.'

[@thelastholdout]

Okay but imagine the guy from the first story becoming a necromancer and going after both gods again, but this time with an army made up of the corpses of all the previous chosen ones at his back.

[@Triforce_of_Doom]

oh that is metal as FUCK

[@dr3dg352]

Yay 2 stories! ❤️ The second one was so rough though. 😬 There's no space for selfish players like that Gollum guy, he should've been kicked after the first session. While I personally hate the idea of an intentionally broken build in a tabletop RPG, you can still be that way without blatantly cheating and being selfish. Players like this will end up friendless.

[@mattwesto]

Idk "usual spells" sounds extremely sussy. There are verbal components in almost every spell. If I were the DM, I would look at the character sheet and also ask to reroll those stats.

[@GreatGreenGoo]

That is a legit great background at the beginning. I would be PROUD to have a background that the DM wove into that.

[@punknomad7995]

As a house rule: we go by the DM’s rules as well as the Game rules. But the DM can overrule a thing if it’s too broken. To quote a really good movie: “the rules are more like guidelines”.

[@Shiverwar]

Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner!

[@aulvinduergard9952]

*Alternate idea for dealing with the non-chosen Chosen One:* Have everyone (including the other PCs) treat him like his character's delusional. They've rolled checks to know this 'super god' doesn't exist, there is no prophecy, and no such BBEG. Then, when the guy gets too much to handle any longer, dangle an 'oh so obvious Chosen One plot hook' in front of him that takes him one way while the other PCs go the other way on a seemingly boring quest. Then, when the Chosen One leaves to embrace his 'destiny,' the session continues without him. When he complains, the DM tells him he can create a new character if he still wants to play, but that 'chosen one' is now an NPC. With the second guy, the fault's not only on the DM for not checking the character, as well as letting them get away with the obvious rule-breaking, but for also not supporting the other players who questioned them on how they're doing what they're doing. The "I don't have to explain anything to you!" should have been met with a firm "Yes, you do, because I have the same question. So answer, or make a new character."

[@MoonyInspired]

Hi critcrab and critcrab community, i loved your stories and they made me fall in love with rpg in general so im just here to say me and my friends even started a channel. Its something small and its in brazillian portuguese, playing mostly Ordem Paranormal (a brazillian rpg system), and i hope this doesnt make anyone mad. Im not trying to sell anything, just... yeah thank you for helping on this new thing i love. !!!

[@moody5763]

I actually love the direction the first player went though, both in game and out. Would love to know more about what happened to him after he became a fighter.

[@ChaosCounseling]

I remember using divine intervention to make a point to a player who refused to listen to anything we warned him about saying the Dm will just hand wave his character death…not proud of it. Especially since he didn’t learn anything from it

[@RatRatGirl]

the whole “i don’t have to show you anything” junk in the second story is wild because like how do you as a DM not question them on it and ask for the specific rule/ability and what book it’s sourced from????

[@m.a.packer5450]

For people saying "why doesn't the DM just kick the problem player," I had the following experience: I was running a game for about 6 months and one of the players was very annoying. Interrupted all the time, wanted all the treasure for herself, wanted to implement broken and over-powered house rules for herself, wanted to make everything into a pet, etc. The players were fed up with her, but I was loathe to boot her because she was disabled, came from a troubled upbringing, and had a very hard time making friends. I felt sorry for her, and I was able to reign her in on sore issues. Didn't matter, the players kept badgering me to kick her, kept sending me their grievances, and finally, they all threatened to leave the game if I didn't boot her. Confirmed that all of them felt this way, so I reluctantly agreed and informed her she was out of the game. She broke down sobbing and blocked me. I then learned that she reached out to one of the other players to confirm why she was kicked out. He told her and she broke down again. He told the rest of the players what was going on, and they all turned on me, basically saying: "how could you just throw her out like that?" I reminded them that they were the ones who wanted her kicked out, but they accused me of not making a better case for her staying in, and now I broke her, and how could I be so heartless, yatta yatta yatta. I felt utterly betrayed, and my attempts to apologize to the girl I'd booted fell on deaf ears (I even appealed to an admin on roll20 to help me reach out to her, which they were more than happy to oblige), but nothing came of it. In short, kicking a problem player can often snowball into even worse drama, and I wish I had followed my gut instincts rather than be pressured by an angry mob.

[@Croutonking65]

I’m sorry that happened to you but it feels like you were just lose-lose situation. You kick them, the events play out as you described. You don’t kick them, the rest of your players leave and your game dies anyway. You couldn’t really explain her situation, cause that wouldn’t your place to give out her personal info. Feels like it was a problem with your players not being able to see the situation objectively and trying to pass the guilt onto you

[@Leongon]

The second story is absolutely a terrible DM situation for not getting rid of the rotten player, letting him ruin the whole thing. Also, why people stick together still playing with that group if their DM is allowing all that BS? Wouldn't be better as a player to give a warning to the DM that what's being allowed is unacceptable and just leave if it's not addressed? What the hell people. Is it only a matter of not having any other choices of groups to play with? At what point nothing is better than something that is just a bad time?

[@jaredblatterman6877]

2nd story OP obviously didn't have extensive 3.5e experience 😅 After hearing about the bear army and wild shape spells my thoughts were "pretty sure I know how to build that fully RAW"

[@zuerock4854]

3.5 was a different beast. I often started a level 1 character with 5 feats due to the flaw mechanic. Made a character who could standing jump 20+ft into the air at level 1. I abused falling object damage to destroy everything medium or smaller

[@jaredblatterman6877]

@zuerock4854 oh for sure! And if a DM told you "you get starting wealth for a 12th lvl character, spend it on whatever you like" with no restrictions...you could easily put together some absolutely crazy equipment combinations 🥳

[@Starwarsgeek-nx9pq]

Honestly this is why in my campaigns I immediately tell my players that power gaming and overpower builds are forbidden role playing is bigger in my games with heavy long combats (I play with bigger groups) and it’s always entertaining and good fun (also I’m in the military and everyone that plays in my group is also in the military and it’s a great time)

[@jothrax4673]

2nd story: It's the fault of the whole party, not the DM solely. Based on the story no one else suggested kicking the player and really those decisions are on the whole group, not just the DM.

[@toportime]

2nd Story, while I blame the "That Guy", I blame the DM even more for allowing him to do all that.

[@estebanaguirre965]

the second story makes me mad... the DM had so much trouble finding ways to fight the bears when he just needed to ask ONCE what are the spells druid is using... questioning him ONCE would have solved all his problems at any point.

[@CocoWantsACracker]

He should also learn how to say no. "No, you can't have a stat at 45" would've been a good place to start...

[@estebanaguirre965]

@@CocoWantsACracker exactly!... I know seasoned DMs that would suffer with just a little of min maxing from the players, I can't imagine what kind of eldritch nightmare it must be to have that player doing that... Just say no. If they don't like it then probably they're not a good fit for the table

[@Jessthree]

Dude that line is magical though: @17:32

[@freakishuproar1168]

That was unironically a smart move by the DM. He could've just killed the character outright, burning the bridge and snapping the olive branch, and foregoing any possibility of the problem player getting involved with their D&D game. But he instead symbolically killed the character and thus offered him a second chance, a lesson in how to be a fully rounded member of a party - a contributor to the collective heroism of the group as opposed to the sole self-entitled enactor of it.

[@Promance2300]

If you were a good DM, you wouldn't have allowed the backstory in the first place.

[@LordMephilis]

I didn't play with the first player so I can't speak on how bad they were. But, I honestly want to know how the battle went from there, how the character reacted to all of these revelations. And I would love to play that kind of story myself. Also in Pathfinder there is actually a "Chosen One" Archetype for Paladin XD For second guy, I like how Pathfinder makes targets being two sizes larger than you being immune to grapple making cheese like that impossible.

[@TransientWitch]

They said they were playing in 3.5 and it took me about 4 seconds to look it up. That restriction is also in 3.5's grapple rules: you automatically fail the hold stage of a grapple if your opponent is two size categories larger than you are...Which is failing the grapple. Even *attempting* a grapple provokes an attack of opportunity from your target, which also just straight fails the grapple attempt if it connects. You can try a grapple action for each of your melee attacks, though. You also have to be able to move into the opponent's space to hold them, and if that is prevented for any reason...You cannot hold them, therefore the grapple fails. I suspect no one actually knew the rules they were using, including the DM. Additionally, an easy fix is to just say you can only grapple things within a given size range of you because the DM's rules supercede all other rules period.

[@xCCflierx]

Grappling is complicated in 3.5. I used a flowchart and still it was a mess. Once feats and items gets involved the flowchart gets huge

[@sky_tech_23]

Tbh pathfinder1 weirdly has no limits on a grapple size difference. And RAW you can grapple the creature larger than you are (albeit with more difficult check).

[@LordMephilis]

@@sky_tech_23 Ah, you are correct, it is bull rush that has the size restriction, that is odd. Though yes, at a certain point you are not really grappling anything unless you are a Barbarian with strength surge anyway... and even then good luck.

[@jagd7102]

Honestly I really like the way the plot line with the main character turned out.

[@n0etic_f0x]

See this is one of my hidden things for a backstory. If you are getting this power I *will* find a way to make basically everything immune to you. I instantly know what to do. It is a god and nobody knows about it... evangelize or the faith needed to grant it any power is null, not even zero *null* the magic not only does not exist it *cannot* exist. You are a paladin power by faith, and the faith is unknown.

[@n0etic_f0x]

The second story, I already have an item because I have had people do this, it can be easy to make animals OP. The incense of black October, all animals are tame, placed into a state of bliss, and magically sated. They will not move, they can not take damage, they can not attack.

[@PinkMawile]

Honestly, noncombat encounters is an amazing way to deal with power gamers like the druid.

[@mattozzie836]

Claim your "Here within the first hour" Badge here.

[@stevekearney3233]

Bro according to my phone you were here commenting within a minute!

[@shanetheivey]

Well boy howdy! I get a badge?

[@Gibus_Priest_Funny]

Thank your sire howeverth thy my small rectangular deviceth is telling me thy dis message is from -400 years ago sir.

[@jhonathanrichards5467]

15minutes post post woo!

[@justinmills3533]

Huh ... neat

[@RegalRoyalWasTaken]

"Wannabe chosen one turns out to be part of a long cycle of puppets and sets out to become a hero for real after being abandoned" is ABSOLUTELY something I wanna try doing next time I play DND.

[@vampire9545]

Skip to 1:10

[@TheCat_3]

"I only have to explain it to the dm" The dm:

[@mindlessmeat4055]

The spell casting in shapeshift is from Natutal Casting feat. I have played many druids in my day. 45 wisdom is insane. I havr gotten a few characters close to that high in that system, but that was many levels and many items.

[@shinryuvirus9987]

I just thought of a subversion of a main character syndrome where instead of a player character thinking he is the chosen one shit instead he acts like that to get the enemies's attention and distract them while the party attacks the enemies while they are distracted

[@artsyhoodies]

That first story was amazing honestly. The story of a vain idiot, thinking he is the chosen one, being thrown away by both the BBEG and his own god, just for him to come back (from sheer luck) a better person.

[@zombies5100]

"Another pathetic puppet that my brother has sent to die? How pitiful." Sounds straight out of warhammer ngl...

[@twilightgardenspresentatio6384]

Goddam that was a well worked-in answer Now he’s a fallen paladin

[@Telawin]

I really enjoy writing characters and one thing I love doing when watching these kinds of videos is taking bad characters and seeing what would make them good (I've actually done that a few times already with this channel: "character just looks at you and doesn't respond" turns out they're deaf and weren't paying attention so they couldn't read your lips... Or "character from the East with a strict code who's only ever known battle" is not from fantasy Japan but rather from a fantasy Mongolian empire. Things like that) and I would 100% talk with my DM about having a 'chosen one' character who gets taken apart and knocked down like that

[@TrickyThe0ne]

That last one is wild, imagine being a rules lawyer in a game where the rules are a literal suggestion, what’s even crazier is the dm not just saying “No you cannot grapple the monster.”

[@Ike_of_pyke]

First guy went full Luke Skywalker in empire "I'm a jedi , I am a Jedi!!!!" *gets owned*

[@Fallenmonkd20]

I can always appreciate DM's from the first story who try and make a creative story out of a players terrible idea