MAN VS. BEAR PT. 2: REDDIT'S REVENGE

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#tiktok #viral #tiktokvideo

[@JARV9701]

Not even AI generated content has ever made Vaush this mad. Impressive, Reddit.

[@Natpad_027]

To be fair, its reddit.

[@mstrfstr310]

Reddit can make anyone seeth. That's why I burned it and every other social media forever.

[@Dreagostini]

Nothing beats the creative thought of mankind.

[@charliedeese6272]

@@mstrfstr310 I hate reddit too but don't you realize it's funny you typed this into a youtube comment haha

[@generichandle7]

NEAI

[@HeyThisIsBrian]

Third option: You’re walking in the woods. There’s no one around and your phone is dead. Out of the corner of your eye you spot him: Shia LeBeouf.

[@Katharoni]

Ah yes, Shia, the not man LMAO

[@waxhawguy]

No, Shia falls into the "men" category. Making that possibility all the more horrifying.

[@whonose503]

I'm Running for my life (from Shia LaBeouf) He's brandishing a knife (it's Shia LaBeouf)

[@liesalllies]

FUCKING RUNNNNNN

[@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicos]

To paraphrase the best comment ever placed on that video: the fact I know jiu-jitsu is the most surprising information I've ever received in the second-person

[@BLooDCoMPleX]

"Be the Kendrick to these Drakes" is such a funny fucking sentence to come out of the mouth of a guy who exclusively listens to video game and anime soundtracks.

[@Cobalt985]

He watched Conure's video

[@AlasKenn1]

Kendrick should be in more video games.

[@Caleb-il7om]

Yet he bans the Kendrick listeners, interesting

[@Annimations]

@@AlasKenn1that’s the real takeaway. More Kendrick game tracks

[@phillipanselmo8540]

​@@AnnimationsKendrick and lotus juice collab on persona 6

[@francescawhite4166]

As a female viewer who has in the past been critical of vaush on the way he handles some topics pertaining to women, I'm very comforted by his strong stance here

[@IIITheDeadGamerIII]

trans woman and am happy with vaush's hard-line stance here.

[@hefdef9961]

im an EVIL vaush viewer and i HATE his takes here

[@IIITheDeadGamerIII]

@@hefdef9961 okay boomer

[@mrmaniac3]

​@@hefdef9961evil bad doodoo fart man

[@juliam7037]

i agree!

[@X64813]

Saw this on Twitter a while back: "Men will insist on making the point it's not all men until they have a female extension of themselves (daughter), and then suddenly all men are an existential threat towards her."

[@someonesomeone25]

I dont think it changes my answers at all. Bears are scary. And so are men. And women. Stay away from all.

[@foreverdm7000]

​@@someonesomeone25 glad you never go outside, it saves the rest of us the trouble

[@someonesomeone25]

@@foreverdm7000 Sadly, I do have to go outside. I am, however, very cautious around strange people. I cross streets to avoid homeless, drunk, rowdy, or dangerous looking men and women, for example. I lock my doors. I avoid dangerous areas, especially at night. I keep my eyes and ears open. And so on. I'm also very scared of bears.

[@foreverdm7000]

@@someonesomeone25 completely reasonable actually

[@appa609]

I'd still rather my wife/daughter meet a man in the woods than a bear. This is just an objective risk analysis.

[@Eric-lw5yq]

It's so rude when women run away from me while I'm trying to convince them that I'm not a threat

[@andythedestro12]

Right?? I'm chasing after them screaming "hey stop running" and they keep running away. Maybe it was my "I don't harass women" t shirt?

[@christophergreen6595]

Hence the bear costume!

[@colt9836]

Me, running at the woman, I'm not your enemy!

[@hostomelhorsehoarder]

Yeah so rude! I follow them to make sure they get home safely and they call the police??? Hello?????

[@mahtimonni97]

"Don't worry! It's just cow's blood!" I yell, sprinting after her, leaving red footprints.

[@SadRadMad]

I posed the question to my boss, would he rather his daughter be alone in the woods with a man or a bear. He immediately answered bear. He then paused, and asked if "bear" referred to the animal, or if it referred to a large gay man. After a very short discussion, we both agreed that in either case, we'd still opt for the bear. W Millenial Boss

[@someonesomeone25]

Fair. Would it have bothered you if he had chosen man, or if he had chosen bear over a gay man?

[@AG-iu9lv]

😂😂😂

[@user-iz3su9xv6r]

Just described the entirety of unhinged individuals that blame men for any and every thing goes wrong in THEIR lives, for example "HOW DARE YOU BRING UP THAT I HAVE A BODY COUNT ABOVE 20!!"....IF THERE WAS SUCH THING AS A "SYSTEMIC" FEMALE OPPRESSION NOT. ONE. SINGLE. WOMAN. WOULD. HAVE. THE. OPPORTUNITY. OR. FREEWILL. TO. COMPLAIN. ABOUT. IT. THE BEAR/MAN DEBATE ITSELF IS PROOF OF THE OPPOSITE 🤷🤷🤷

[@courier420winter]

look, as a survivor and a veteran (where there were multiple rapists active at my duty station to the point where we had to have constant meetings about it and I was terrified to walk to my room alone) I feel like, visceral anger at the ignorant dismissiveness displayed by these comments, you're all literally part of the problem

[@tyruskarmesin5418]

The question is not "are men sometimes dangerous." The whole problem here is the claim that the average man is worse than a bear.

[@SerafinaP]

​@tyruskarmesin5418 depends on the bear LMAO not all bears my dude! But seriously, polar bear hell no, grisly bear 50/50, brown and black bear I'll take my chances with the bear, panda bear fuck yes definitely the panda, I'd spend the rest of my life living with a panda rather than speaking to another human male! 😘

[@certifiedfunnyguy]

@@tyruskarmesin5418 that isn't even the claim. Have you paid any attention? The claim is that women in general will fear a random man more than a bear. That was all the original claim is, and if you ask women why they will give you answers, you just responded to one. Nobody was saying the average, the possibility of sexual violence is an unkown quality and that isnt a risk I would expect women to be willing to take.

[@SerafinaP]

Sorry for everything you went through, and sorry for the idiot who just mansplained under your comment. ❤

[@tyruskarmesin5418]

@@certifiedfunnyguy All we know in the hypothetical is that he is a man. And the bear is preferable. Ergo a bear is preferable to the average man. It seems pretty straightforward. People are not just talking about how women have a reason to be scared, they are saying that men in general are so bad a bear is better. Yes there is some small risk of sexual violence with the man, but there is also a much greater risk of normal violence form a bear, and I don't understand why you only seem to consider the first.

[@simonlegosson7082]

“Have you seen a grizzly or a polar bear? Have you seen them eat? They eat their prey while it’s still alive” This hypothetical made 90% of online men transform into Dwight Schrute.

[@MrNeodylliphan]

GOATed comment

[@appa609]

90% of online men were already dwight schrute

[@somethingelse4424]

FALSE. Bears, beats, Battlestar Galactica.

[@pancakes8670]

Based US Office Reference.

[@simonlegosson7082]

@@somethingelse4424 Isn’t it “beets” as in the ones he grows with Mose on his farm?

[@paragon1329]

"The worst thing a bear can do to my dead body is eat it."

[@mitchbaker5995]

There not going to wait for you to be dead before turning you into a happymeal

[@Mezalla12]

And a man might even do that!

[@hikelfin5941]

What's the worst thing a man can do to something dead?

[@Nik1718]

@@hikelfin5941 actually, if you take into account the continuation of consciousness 🤓🤓🤓 feminists defeated by facts and logic

[@HobbiesGamesChillin]

Which isn’t accurate cause bears have been caught violating corpses

[@sasandbernard7862]

Vaush makes misogynistic jokes but his feminism is more sincere than most I’ve seen. It’s genuinely heartbreaking seeing these chatters fuck up all that goodwill

[@frishter]

Sincerity is absolutely not one of his traits. He appeals to an audience radicalising them and integrity has no importance. He's very open about silencing dissenting opinions. What kind of community do you think that makes?

[@ALK82]

​@@frishteryou sound disingenuous with an axe to grind.

[@lolusuck386]

@@frishter Were you one of the people banned? lmao

[@frishter]

@@ALK82 I have a problem with hypocrisy and those who actively divide. If you're willing to overlook every flaw just because he says stuff you've been trained to see as truth, then that is your problem. The irony is that this culture only promotes moderates and conservatives to actually become better people. This is what we actively see. Especially for those who want to hand women over to the bears. I'd much rather value her life at expense of her feelings than value her feelings at the expense of her life.

[@frishter]

@@lolusuck386 Trust me. I am not one of you. I actually think a woman's life has value.

[@FabbrizioPlays]

I think there should be a third option. Would you rather see a man, a bear, or a cop in the woods. For the remainder of this essay, I will refer to this hypothetical as ManBearPig-

[@taelib1425]

Goddamnit lmao

[@katyungodly]

Underrated comment

[@sockpop]

hold on let em cook

[@cheeto.burrito]

you win the comment section, congratulations

[@camelidnt]

I like how Vaush literally responded to someone's specific case of being both a man *and* black and how those factors have different implications for the hypothetical in the original segment and so many redditers *still* didn't get it.

[@8bitdiedie]

Because there’s nothing to get. If you need someone to be an oppressed minority in order to display basic decency and logic, then you’re simply not a good, nor clever, person.

[@Gloomdrake]

Kind of a moot point given how many of them explicitly haven’t even watched that Vaush video

[@mookiestewart3776]

Idk….the entire thought experiment is kinda just some white woman shit anyway . It’s corny

[@Jorge-np3tq]

His argument to this point fails when you talk about being scared of white people instead, who do have the systemic oppression on their side. But being afraid of someone white for being white remains racism.

[@loopholesloopy]

none of them actually watch vaush

[@eannburns1335]

As a magic the gathering player, I would rather see a bear in the woods any day than another magic the gathering player

[@someonesomeone25]

If that is literally true, ouch, doesn't say much about that hobby.

[@boringblackbird8433]

Man, I’m so autistic my first thought was “I’d live to spend a day in the woods with a bear”

[@thecanadienpatriot9491]

Based take

[@MilesDashing]

Support your local bear, everyone.

[@EdgeRequiem]

Understandable; Bears ARE friend shaped afterall.

[@Reed5016]

Me too, bro

[@sentientpieceofcheese]

Just doing bear things like honey berries and salmon yum

[@shaia6583]

my 53 year old father understood this idk how reddit people can't

[@yogidevendrabiriyani1777]

Jesus fukkin christ, my hubby is 55 and i'm 48. What are u a bumch of toddlers? Thats not even old just middle aged lol

[@jakemyers5764]

By virtue of him being your dad he has a relationship with a woman. Unfortunately reddit does not

[@billclockwell]

​@@jakemyers5764 if only it were true that man who have long time relationships with woman understood this automatically

[@yogidevendrabiriyani1777]

Jfc my hubby is 55.. What are yall babies???

[@krazedklingon189]

​@@yogidevendrabiriyani1777Yeh.

[@Dreigonix]

The real question is, would you rather run into a bear or a twink in the woods. Interpret the question yourself.

[@munchkingod6]

Def the bear. We’d have a lot more in common.

[@Eden_Laika]

One of each, please.

[@someonesomeone25]

Twink, but Bear would be fun too.

[@_extrathicc]

It depends, how submissive is the twink?

[@cookies23z]

LOL, twink, for sure, altho them being alone in the woods is dangerous For them, obv

[@angelikaskoroszyn8495]

When women get attacked immediately the blame game begins. She should've worn something different, she should've acted differently, she should've been somewhere else, she should've been able to read the man's mind and avoid him. Most of the responsibility is put on women's shoulders so obviously they're more vigilant = they're more paranoid when they interact with men Then men get butt hurt because women act like they were taught. Most men are not predatory but women are not afraid of all of them - just the minority our flawed justice allows to go around and hurt women

[@pizzashits]

EXACTLY!

[@someonesomeone25]

I don't think that's what happening, though I could be wrong of course. I think the men critiquing the question tend to all into two camps: autistic men who want to focus on the statistics and what is most rational; andmen who feel they are being lumped into a 'villain' category and feeling offended at that. I think women get a lot of messages about how to protect themself from men, which includes lots of restrictions on their behaviour, but I don't think hardly anyone places majority responsibility on women rather than their attackers - though ideally we should live in a world where no one is ever blamed to any degree for not restricting their behaviour because of fear of others. I fear all humans. I restrict my behaviour a lot. It sucks. I wish there was a solution.

[@deadfr0g]

Yoooo!! I’ve already been on this side of the “argument” my entire life, and reading the double standard laid out so clearly still hit me really hard.

[@jbtube73]

Catch-22! Damned if you do, and damned if you don't. No to both the man or bear, both (like people) are predictable at times. Best to be a loner, at least you know you can do bad all by yourself.

[@markmilne765]

Nobody says that unless you live in Pakistan.

[@hatientacetlen4246]

I transitioned MtF and on my first week out presenting fem I got more harrassment than I got in the entire 23 years presenting male.

[@someonesomeone25]

That's easy to believe. I think I'm unusual in that I've got more abuse from women in my life both when I was cishet man and now as a genderqueer. I think women in general get loads of sexualised harassment from cishet men.

[@hwelse]

Jesus, really?? I'm planning on taking E soon, so, I'll have to be wary of that when I do start fem presenting. Genuinely, thank you so much for sharing this. ❤ I hope things get better for you, if they haven't already.

[@hatientacetlen4246]

@@hwelse Good luck with the E, and yeah it's part of the package. It's not 24/7 danger and will vary depending on where you are but it's a change in how people will view and treat you. Talk to some female friends for advice, mum(s) and other female relatives and people like that. They've lived with this kind of thing for their whole life and will be able to give some advice. Even better if you know any MtF women who've already had to go through this and will know the problems you're likely to run into. Good luck sis : )

[@ChillingTales12]

I've lived 26 years as afab never been harrased

[@hatientacetlen4246]

@@ChillingTales12 Happy for you : )

[@lailaxoxo872]

As a 22 year old woman I can’t count on my hands and feet the amount the times I’ve been made to feel fearful or uncomfortable by men. I was boxed in my parking spot at work by a 60 year old man who sat in his car blocking mine trying to hit on me. We sat like that for 5 minutes. I had a man and his friend corner me in a a store I was working at, shove his phone in my face and demand my number. When I politely declined they got closer and kept shoving it in my face. These experiences have happened within this year and we’re not even halfway through. I don’t hate men but men can be scary.

[@jessjess23brooks89]

We don't hate men, but some men specifically seem to hate us or worse, don't even regard us as people. Expectations to fight off one portion of the male population and protect the feelings of all the others who get offended by vigilance is exhausting, especially since we sometimes don't know who is a threat to us after months of acquaintance and when we lower our guard, it can be too late.

[@poulhenne]

It is so sad that so many men feel entitled to treat women so bad. It is even sadder that so many men are incapable of seeing the problem.

[@bioticjedi3864]

The amount of time ive had to duck into the "employees only" or "restricted" section of a store bc a guy wouldn't leave me the fuck alone no matter how I told them is outrageous. They all say "just say no" or "smile and be nice" don't work. I hate having to be hyper vigilant every time I go out in public. And btw every single time I've been harassed or catcalled I was wearing a baggy sweater and sweatpants

[@ijornhribrudkrvir]

Yeah I had a man try to convince me to go into an alleyway when I was walking back from 7 eleven at 2am once. Insisted there was an injured cat and he didn't know what to do. God knows what he was planning. It's crazy how different the interactions are once they know you're alone and it's late enough there's no one around to see. Nowhere is completely safe.

[@markmilne765]

Can you count how many times men acted non-threatingly around you? Way more than bears would. If you lived among bears, instead of men, you'd be already long dead.

[@AmphiptereSiX]

This segment RULED. Thank you man. Big respect.

[@ZacharySmith-mq7qh]

"You banned a bunch of people you didn't agree with and called them braindead and retarded. Big ups!!!" Get a grip

[@susanleslie6178]

​@@ZacharySmith-mq7qh Okay worse than bear. 👍

[@chariot5660]

@@susanleslie6178 ok psyop

[@summerlovinxx]

​@@chariot5660 ok predator :)

[@chariot5660]

@@summerlovinxx I interpreted the other person's comment as a dig at the whole "rather pick a bear" thing, so I said psyop cus antifeminism or whatever. I probably misinterpreted them because I didn't see they were replying to someone lol

[@MrRight-xd4vt]

Even as a man, men can be fucking terrifying. A few years back my dad and I went camping at a local state park for the weekend, for some father son bonding. We got to our lot and started setting up our tent and across from us there was another dad and his son set up in a camper. As we’re working these two come up to us and strike up some conversation. Initially it’s pretty friendly, just comments about the weather, how it’s a great weekend for camping, etc. But soon it becomes real uncomfortable. They stop making conversation and just stand on the lot sort of leering at us as we work. Occasionally making comments like “You boys sure are working hard” and my dad is trying his best to be friendly while also getting them to leave. We finish setting up our tent and my dad almost immediately says how we need to go pick up some bait for fishing, we get in the car and drive off. As we’re leaving my dad immediately turned and said “I just wanted to get out of there, those guys were creeping me out.” Nothing worse than being creeped out happened with those guys, we didn’t even speak to them for the rest of our stay, but something easily could have happened. Were it just a bear that came up to us in our lot, it would have been scary yeah, but you can more easily get a bear to go away, and you can more easily read a bears intentions.

[@wardrobewings8000]

This is exactly the heart of the issue- with a bear or any other large predator once you see them you know what you can expect from them and if you are a savvy hiker you know how you can deal with them. Men for some strange reason tend to be socialised in such bizarre ways that not only do women have issues getting a good read on their intentions but in many cases so do men. Like take a moment and imagine this- it's 2 AM you are getting back from a bar. You are drunk and alone. Some random guy rapidly walks up to you. You aren't comfortable, but you are dude, you could sock them in the face and gun ownership is limited in your country. He shouts "Oi mate, are you interested in fire insurance? I can give you _really_ good deal!" You have pretty decent fire insurance. You are drunk and you don't want to deal with this right now. You tell the dude to piss off. The guy doesn't get the message or is malicious because he starts to shout something along the lines of "Wouldn't it be a shame if your house caught fire...". You start to freak out over how you can get out of this situation without leading them to your very flammable house.

[@AkerfeldtTveitan-yi4xm]

Wow that's pretty weird. What do you think they actually wanted?

[@FrenkieWest32]

@@wardrobewings8000 Stuff like that happens quite frequently and let's say half the times you couldnt sock them in the face.

[@shinystarmiestudios4179]

Men are horrible. Considering how horrible Men are, Misandry is understandable and based.

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

I think men are actually every bit as terrified of men as women are. Every guy I know has been at least punched in the face, if not worse, by another dude. And they do not want to get punched more. The vast majority of women I know have never been punched in the face. So I don't think men are less afraid, I just think they don't feel as free to voice their fear, they are socially conditioned to act tough, because they think 'acting tough' is the only thing that will save them.

[@kurtacus3581]

One big thing against the "well is it okay to treat black people like this if someone got mugged" is that a the vast majority of white people havent been mugged by black people or know white people who have, but most women experienced or know a woman who's been drugged, assaulted, or stalked by men. One is irrational the other isnt

[@someonesomeone25]

So if its happened to you it's rational? I don't think k it works like that. Surely, it's a purely statistical argument regardless of personal experience,.or else it's entirely an irrational emotional response regardless of experience.

[@kurtacus3581]

@@someonesomeone25 i dont know how you can read what i wrote and have that be your takeaway. Its about how often and how prevalent these things happen, not about you specifically. I dont lnow how you got that conclusion. Most, if not all women have experience with many men being or doing terrible things to them on a regular basis. Whote people dont have that same amount of shit happening to them from black people. Women having a fear of men is rational, white people having a fear of black people is irrational. On top of how the reason for the prevalence is specifically because they are men and their victims are women that these things happen, its directly tied to their gender. Whereas a white person getting mugged by a black person will likely not be a product of their race. You're not being mugged because you're white and they arent mugging you because they are black. But women do get targeted by men because they are women. See the difference? One is rational the other isnt

[@someonesomeone25]

​​@@kurtacus3581So it's a statistical thing. I agree women are entirely rational to be more scared of men than of women. But I'm not sure it also isn't rational for white people to he more scared or poor black men than poor white men. I dontknow the stats well enough. But we agree it's the stats that determine whether it is rational or not, yes? Likewise, its fair for gay men to be scared of straight men. And so on.

[@ultravioletiris6241]

@@kurtacus3581 reminds me of the TERF arguments used to screen bio males from female spaces due to “”safety concerns””.

[@Potatosalad5-sg9yr]

​@@someonesomeone25omg shut up

[@Pats0c]

"My friends joke about raping me to my face" what a fucking bombshell to end off with dude

[@someonesomeone25]

I'm glad I don't have friends compared to that.

[@DimaRakesah]

It's terrifying how many men think that them being attracted to you is a "compliment" that you now "owe them" for paying to you. So many times men who have completely ignored my wants and boundaries have done so through excessive compliments that they then seemed to feel entitled them to whatever they wanted from me not matter how much I said no.

[@cheeto.burrito]

with friends like these...

[@itzhen7032]

Massive amount of respect to Vaush for this call out. Those threads were an embarrassment to a supposed leftist community

[@thechairman1318]

I'd be surprised, but then I remember that spez is still there

[@LilyMoonWitch]

Even leftists can be insecure idiots, i guess. Stating that women don't feel safe around men because of the way a lot of men act, and a lot of other men will feel attacked, leftist or not.

[@frishter]

Ah yes "Men are bad". "Gee why do a disproportionate amount of men take their own lives".

[@deadfr0g]

I’m 0% surprised and 100% glad that Vaush is f**king burying these guys on this issue. The way that they can’t stop whining about it genuinely _is_ embarrassing to him and anyone who is subscribed to this channel.

[@wumbojet]

The vaushv subreddit is barely a vaush subreddit, since it got weird with it's own subset of the community they're the worst of the worst and are barely part of the community

[@stupidshinji1331]

The super racism was strong. I cant imagine my first thought being "what about black people?" when confronted with the reality many women live with. Jesus.

[@prometheus3498]

Its called a consistent application of principles. The men vs bear discourse is largely a social commentary on the shit hand women are dealt in the world (which is great, love the education), but there's a subset of people who are justifying the decision through being bigoted and misandrist in an identical way to what racists do to black people. Vaush attempts to avoid this by claiming that men are the "oppressor" class (ignoring the fact that the patriarchy hurts men too and their status as part of the oppressor class doesn't make their suffering any less valid) and that men aren't hurt by women judging men as potential predators just by virtue of the actions done by a small minority. However, that ignores the fact this conception of men as inherently criminal perfectly dovetails/contributes to meaningful harm like creating demographic differences in sentencing (men getting larger sentences for the same crimes as women).

[@cozypinkvomit]

@@prometheus3498If black people attacked white people at the same rate and way that men attacked women, they WOULD have a right to be cautious around black people. Vaush bringing up that men are in the oppresser class and black people aren’t is him saying that black people are the ones reacting to white people’s violence and not the other way around. Y’know, cause that what that means. Same here, women are reacting to mens violence, not the other way around. If a black person was cautious around a white person, that would be FINE because there IS social power white people have that black people don’t which means they get to control how that dynamic goes ultimately in most situations.

[@8bitdiedie]

@@prometheus3498I’ve noticed when you change the question to be “bear vs black man” all of a sudden women don’t want to answer. The point about being an opressor or not is kinda irrelevant unless you think people can only belong to one demographics or that social constructs should decide if we are prejudiced idiots or not.

[@duncanmacleod6274]

"What about black men" makes a lot more sense as a legitimate concern when you add the context of "being equated to dangerous wild animals". There's a history there that involves a lot of innocent people being jailed or strung up by a mob. There is a very good reason some people are going to react negatively to that. Maybe essentializing extremely negative traits is something that should be done carefully and with nuance, and not with a viral social media trend.

[@someonesomeone25]

My first thought was: what kind of bear? Then I went to woman or bear? Then what about gay or straight man? Then black, Asian, Muslim, poor, disabled, trans, mentally ill, autistic, gun owning, and so on. Its an interesting thought experiment to do if you're honest with yourself, highlights many prejudices and fears you may have.

[@vanessavaughan]

Thank you for caring this much, Vaush.

[@bennymacaroni]

Violent bears are the minority of bears! Honestly, take any of these borderline-incel arguments and replace the word man with bear, and it would make more sense. The vast majority of human-bear interactions are completely nonviolent. None of these lonely boys is considering that the bear might not want to immediately maul the person without hesitation, which I think is also revealing. The bear will most likely get scared and run away.

[@herb4n7egend]

they dont go outside enough to know that most bears just wanna leave you alone and mind their business. they think that about men but they can't extend that logic past anything that doesnt look like them i guess

[@JohnDoe-jp4em]

@@herb4n7egend Tell me, would you rather go into a room with a man inside, or a brown bear?

[@herb4n7egend]

@@JohnDoe-jp4em a man i guess? id rather be in a ROOM with a person over pretty much anything else. id rather be in a room with a random man than 5 crickets depending on how long i have to be in there. a room is a very different environment to woods. that doesn't negate the point, though? like, i can pretty reliably scare off a bear in the woods if it decides it wants to fuck with me. and all else fails i can curl up in a ball and theres a solid chance the bear will literally just get bored after a while and move on to something else. a room is basically a closed system with minimal options or distractions, meaning the bear IS eventually gonna fuck me up almost certainly. a man is an intelligent being i can have a conversation with and bond with or whatever. that works IN MY FAVOR in a fuckin closed room and VERY AGAINST MY FAVOR in THE WOODS. thats the entire point, though. men are capable of thinking quite a bit farther than "need to eat to live" and tend to interact with humans on a much more regular basis than BEARS which inherently makes them more dangerous. its not about sheer brute strength. strength really has very little to do with it. its weird to me that yall don't comprehend that

[@renawhitlock6752]

"women needing to be cautious around the people that overwhelmingly see and treat them like prey is stupid. what we REALLY need to focus on is the truly important aspect of this discussion: my feelings" -everyone on reddit, apparently

[@someonesomeone25]

Women should be massively cautious around men. So should men, for that matter. People aren't anywhere near as cautious around humans as they should be.

[@freedomofmusic2112]

😂😂😂

[@Jorge-np3tq]

Yes, it's stupid because the "prey" thing is nonsense and the vast majority of men are not predators.

[@Tatchko]

It's the "Men ovewhelmingly see and treat women as prey" part that people have issue with. No, they don't. The vast of majority violent crime is done by men, true. But that does not mean that men "overwhelmingly" see and treat women as prey. If you cannot see how fucking dehumanizing your language is, you're a shit leftist.

[@davidhughes4089]

Do you really think men overwhelmingly - e.g. a large majority of them - see and treat women as prey?

[@God_gundam36]

Men talking about the emotional burden that weights down on them over women being cautious around them, in a topic about women being terrified of assault from years of personal experience and historical pretext is such a frustrating experience lmao This entire thing boiles down to "well I get that you experience every form of violence at a far higher rate at the hands of men but have you considered that It makes us feel bad to hear that you go though that?"

[@Nerobyrne]

The REAL irony is that my biggest fear is meeting a bear in the woods. And somehow, even I understood what this was about.

[@MsSnoozable]

Can't both be true? Like I get the woman have something to fear but that doesn't discount the feelings of the men

[@yuuumtheepic4118]

It's not about the idea of women being cautious around men, it's perfectly reasonable to be wary of people you don't know. The issue is with people's perception of men as being, on average, dangerous people. I don't know how many people genuinely believe that sort of thing, but it sure feels like a lot of women look at just random guys existing and see them as potential rapists and stalkers, which is just such a deranged and harmful perspective.

[@VoteBidentoSaveDemocracy]

*straight men

[@Nerobyrne]

@@MsSnoozable "hey man did you know that it's much safer to ride a train than drive a car?" People like you: "Oh wow I can't believe you just said nobody gets hurt on trains!" 😐

[@FarEastSanctuary]

2 years ago, there was a girl who I invited to an event at my place with multiple people and as a polite host I asked if she wants something to drink and she told me she doesn't want to drink anything a man can give to her because she has a plethora of experiences where she was drugged by men. I tried my best to say that I'm sorry that happened to her and I was just trying to do what I thought it was nice and she replied with "I am sure you are a nice person, it is not your fault, this is how I wanna deal with this" and leave it like that. I felt very sorry cause I felt powerless to do anything to help but I learned a big lesson to just shut up and hear about others experiences. And this happened before I started watching Vaush or any left wing youtube videos. Some of the people on that subreddit need to go and talk to others and try to be normal human beings

[@luce6764]

I’m a trans guy and I pass but I guess I’m considered ‘pretty’(?) I have gotten extremely creepy experiences from men too but like it’s fucking nothing compared to the shit my little sister deals with on a daily basis. She gets stalked by men who are the age of our father, she’s literally working and a guy will keep harassing her repeatedly until her boss tells him to fuck off, random guys will grab her on the subway and propose randomly to her in public. Then again sexism in my country is also really awful in its own way. So bad that women will tell their daughters to marry a man outside their country so, not surprising. And of course none of this fucking happens when I’m next to her, as fucking expected. It pisses me off so much.

[@seanelsenbroek7530]

I think part of the problem is misdirected anger towards women who are fearful of men. When the anger should be directed towards the men of the past and present who give women something to be fearful of.

[@summerlovinxx]

that's literally why we can't deal with the first part though, they're getting mad at women because they're the second part.

[@jacobnoelle8428]

​@@summerlovinxxnot necessary but they are ether one or the other.

[@appa609]

I'm not mad at women I'm mad at Vaush for making stupid ass arguments on behalf of women. He's literally infantilizing.

[@woop-fl7sl]

Ok then you could say “The problem is the misdirected anger at the white people that fear black people. The anger should be towards the black people of the past and present that commit crimes and make white people feel that way.” Dumb. Make arguments that attack the sociological issues that lead to violence and crimes. Don’t demonize entire demographics.

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

Dude, all fear is, is a concept of probabilities of occurrences based on your past experiences and knowledge. Because they met bad dudes in the past, they have more fear of new dudes.

[@AE149823]

If you are a guy, and you want women to be safe - you should be encouraging them to be cautious. 'Not all guys' is so obvious that it pointing out to women is very much like saying "all lives matter" - no one is saying otherwise, that's just not the present topic. The only motivation to want women to be less vigilant would be to make your life or relationship easier to develop; it should be apparent that expecting *other people* to open *themselves* up to potentially dangerous situations just to reduce *your* cognitive dissonance does not have *their* best interests in mind.

[@DrMakak]

Even better - encourage everyone to be cautious. Men are even more likely to be victims of violence

[@kekistani_meme_farmer7242]

Bears are still more dangerous though.

[@meat3958]

@@DrMakakcommitted against us by who?

[@meat3958]

@@kekistani_meme_farmer7242 If only this were true lol

[@ThompsonFlash9999]

@@kekistani_meme_farmer7242 based on what metrics? How many people were killed by bears last year? Now, how many were killed by men?

[@BinhNguyen-qr9jd]

It suck that women have to be careful around me, but it’s also not the end of the world for me.

[@someonesomeone25]

It sucks that anyone has to be careful around humans. I hate restricting myself so.much because of humans.

[@RustBot42]

@@someonesomeone25 Yeah, even if humans by and large aren't as terrible as we often think, enough of them are that we still need to take precautions against them. It sucks. OP is right, it feels bad when I'm automatically suspected for being something I'm not, but I accept that this is how it has to be at the moment. Maybe when we finally get some kind of broader social shift this won't be necessary, but until then I'll rather be a little uncomfortable if it can help make other people feel safer.

[@etzabo]

As a bear, this is offensive.

[@abnormality00]

these guys make the bear even more appealing. like who else went from choosing the bear to fully befriending the bear after this video.

[@summerlovinxx]

bear is family now. brother bear. wait-

[@irinag9120]

Same here, the bear and I are besties now 🐻

[@GavinG_]

I will become a bear for the bear

[@ASDeckard]

@@GavinG_ If you think you're going to be the one topping with a bear, you don't understand most bears. Edit: unless you mean literal animal bears.... in which case you don't understand any bears.

[@vanyadolly]

Exactly! Do these guys realize all they're doing is filing themselves under "stay away from that one" for any woman they try to argue this with?

[@ilovebooksandmycats669]

also it’s not even just that catcalling at like 14 is a thing that happens, i think most women can attest to the fact that it happened to them MORE when they were a minor.

[@watchingvids423]

Yeah, this shit starts young... for both things. In middle school my older sister was picking me up from school and we walked home since it wasn't far and downhill. We encountered a group boys who I knew as "popular," the brash and cocky types. As we were passing them they started hitting on my sister. I was shocked. And then I was outraged. How dare they! I immediately stopped while shaking in fear as I turned around - knowing that I could get some blowback if I encountered them later at school. I told them point blank that she's not interested in little boys and they should layoff. We continued walking home, partly so they couldn't respond, and partly because I wanted get away ASAP. I was still shaking from the adrenaline. An 11 year-old girl shouldn't have to deal with catcalls, especially in defense of other female family members.

[@Romanticoutlaw]

for me it mostly happened when I was 12-14. Still happened on occasion for a few more years, and not at all now that I'm 30 (and, let's be honest, fat) but drastically more when I had just hit adolescence

[@RobotMasterSplash]

It's a manipulation tactic, so naturally it's a preferred tool for predators.

[@vanyadolly]

Yep! They do it more when you're less likely to be able to defend yourself.

[@awfulwoman]

Yep. I haven’t been catcalled since I was a teenager. Teenage boys to uni guys to grown groups of men catcalled me at age 15. And I don’t even dwell on it much bc my mates got it even younger.

[@farel0888]

As someone who lives in an Islamic Country, a Burqa will not stop Evil people from graping you.

[@someonesomeone25]

Nothing will except being more powerful than them.

[@jenkinsdonut8435]

The bear is more intelligent than those Reddit commenters

[@BleachBasket108]

It feels offensive to the bear to compare them to those commenters

[@user-iz3su9xv6r]

Given that sooo many are liberal fem/incels I agree

[@JasonM-lq7ri]

The age of Men is over, the time of the Bear has come!

[@B0K0691]

Man i'm still stuck on the age of men playthrough, any way I can change my ending or is it locked in?

[@JasonM-lq7ri]

@@B0K0691 Gotta download a cloud save from far back enough.

[@vanyadolly]

I was going to make a "tonight you will feast on woman flesh!" joke, but I'd still pick the bear.

[@warmsignal]

I don't fault women, I'm afraid of men too. When I go on solo hikes or somewhere isolated, I'm always carrying protection. Why? More so in preparation for the dudes I might encounter, than the wild life (which is also something to be cautious of). Let's be real, when you're alone out there it's a gamble whether you're crossing paths with a civilized member of society, or some kind of freakish predator. Anyone with a brain should know this. Why should women pretend that risk isn't real?

[@someonesomeone25]

No one should feel safe from humans of any gender.

[@annnee6818]

Tell ur buddies, too.

[@someonesomeone25]

I'm much more scared of people I pass in urban environments.

[@thatguy6171]

Isn’t Vaush against people either concealed or open carrying? If he understands why women are afraid of men in public, who would he have that take on carrying protection?

[@bluejava9397]

@@someonesomeone25why? You’re surrounded by people and witnesses. And you’ll never see cops move faster. Urban areas - safest I’ve ever felt.

[@bludhuuntr4946]

Holy shit, the incels were coming out of the fucking walls of the house.

[@frishter]

By using the term incel in a derogatory manner, you're implying that a woman's value is from being slept with. Congrats, you have a lot in common with them.

[@oliviax727]

"They're not trying to understand it - they're trying to defeat it" Too true. It's like everybody is just blatantly ignoring the women's opinion in order to be like "well acksually the bear is a very vicious" - THAT'S THE POINT!! THEY KNOW THE BEAR IS DANGEROUS!!

[@someonesomeone25]

Isn't the point that most women think its more dangerous to meet a random man than a random bear? And that does seem disputable. But I totally agree men are very dangerous.

[@ultravioletiris6241]

I don’t think women are SO much less dangerous. Just marginally

[@someonesomeone25]

@@ultravioletiris6241 Humans are terrifying. But I'm generally more wary around men than women.

[@user-pq4fc1mc7q]

@@ultravioletiris6241 All of human history across multiple cultures would disagree with you.

[@itsdodger1176]

People strawman or ad hominem for one of two reasons, insecurity and doubt in ones own position, or emotional fight or flight response, i think we are seeing both with how alot of people feel the need to attack this discussion in a unproductive way.

[@goldiefx]

I worked in the forests of northern canada mostly alone for years. If I had ever seen a human that was not supposed to be there i would be terrified for my life. Seeing a bear in it own habitat is not scary. bears are cool and afraid of humans. Women are cool and fear men no matter were they are.

[@dianevanderlinden3480]

I used to hike alone in the Ocala National Forest here in Florida. I've seen our fairly docile Florida black bears many times, including moms and cubs. I've had them walk parallel to me on the trail, just a few yards beyond me. As long as I dont smell carrion in their poop or corner one in the garage I'm okay. Why did I stop hiking alone? Scary men in the woods. Most guys are just hiking by, minding their own business. Unfortunately that's not always the case. Recently there were a couple of idiots driving up the forest road, shooting at a woman on horseback. Not hunting season ,not a hunting area. They even had a friendly conversation earlier down the road. Hope they get caught.

[@deadeels7159]

As a guy who’s 5’7 I walk around Chicago/ take public transportation knowing no one is going to talk to me and if it is it usually a normal interaction. I don’t worry about people stalking me or cat calling me. At worst Ill get mugged. When I work front desk I might have some crack head who walks In and I gotta kick them out they don’t try to get my number, tell me how much they wanna fuck me, or wait outside to follow me home. Can guys get harassed absolutely but it’s not something I have to worry about every time I go outside.

[@someonesomeone25]

You should worry about it every time you go outside, though. Men are very dangerous.

[@estebandelasexface8193]

I never worried about this as a woman though. I'm honestly stating to think Americans are just insane. It's not normal to feel like this.

[@TheTyTyXD]

I first kind of realized this a few years ago. Rarely have I ever felt unsafe walking to my car after work at night. My female coworkers on the other hand, every single one of them, would be uncomfortable walking in the parking lot alone at night. It made intuitive sense to me when it was pointed out, but I was like, “yeah I never thought about walking alone at night and being ultra scared for my safety”

[@addisonbaker8211]

And as a girl walking around in Chicago and taking public transit - and not even a particularly attractive one - I am flirted with by adult men for uncomfortably long on a monthly basis. I don't even remember most of them anymore; it's just a fact of going somewhere outside a car that I might have a mild to moderately creepy interaction, or even outright harassment, which has happened to me. Most of my friends have similar stories, to the point where I've had entire conversations with other girls that amount to "creepy men interacting with you on the street, am I right?"

[@NYRangers928]

Which is odd considering that as a man you are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime from another man than a woman is.

[@ChickinSammich]

Distilled to its bearest essentials, the whole conversation is: Women: "Here's a rhetorical example I'd like to use to get you to empathize with what I go through and how I feel" Men: "Not only am I not going to make any attempt to empathize, I'm going to debate you about this and explain why you're wrong."

[@tyruskarmesin5418]

So to be clear, is it an exaggeration? Do you believe that a random guy is more dangerous than a bear? Because a lot of people seem to, and that's what I'm responding against. Yes women have reason to fear men, but having empathy for that does not mean believing that men are as likely to attack as bears.

[@ThePanMan11]

"Bearest" essentials. 😂😂😂

[@ThePanMan11]

@@tyruskarmesin5418 Way to prove ChickinSammich' point.... Jesus Christ the fragility...

[@beetlebob4675]

​​@@tyruskarmesin5418 You're in the woods. At night. It's a horror film. Would you rather encounter a random stranger or a bear?

[@pcarrierorange]

It's a shit rhetorical device because it fails to account for how men will absolutely take it literally. In failing to account for this, it fails to empathise* with men - and that makes it a very ineffective messaging device. Instead of conveying "women's lives are fraught with pervasive threats that leave them justifiably paranoid", instilling into men a degree of empathy for women, the message the average man takes away from it is "women are hysterical". That's massively counterproductive - it reinforces for men that women's feelings are not based in reality and therefore needn't be respected, observed, validated or acknowledged. Debating the actual merits of the hypothetical in literal manner is a complete snipe hunt. *NB: I'm not saying men are the real victims uwu or whatever. My point is that, to communicate effectively with a class of people, you must understand those people - at least so far as to understand how they will interpret what you're saying. That's the empathy I refer to.

[@feliksjones2478]

I am a nonbinary (afab) who works in the service industry. The amount of times me and my friends have been sexually harassed/intimidated by more than just strangers. I uad a boss who threatened to assault me when I had just turned 16. And he had a fiance. The thing with bears is that they would not attack you if theyre not hungry. Men would.

[@ChillingTales12]

I'm afab never happened to me

[@soarin226]

Good for you, you are a statistical anomaly ​@@ChillingTales12

[@briannoel7398]

​@ChillingTales12 I'm amab, has happened to me. I hope it never happens to you, but stay vigilant in case it does.

[@Babe-mh5gw]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@ChillingTales12why are you commenting this everywhere? There’s hundreds of comments of people sharing their stories of horrible shit happening to them and your doing this whole pick me thing either as an autistic desire to provide a counter statistic because you think numbers and ratios are neat and your trying to stim, or you’re using it as a way to try and devalue the bear x man hypothetical out of a desire to appeal to men who are being dumb and despite countless examples that you have read from afab non masc passing people + femme presenting people explaining, you choose to just keep posting this comment everywhere. I have never been roofied before, but I have 2 friends who have. When talking about roofie issues, do you think I just comment “okay but i’ve never been roofied before, so 🙄…” is in anyway helpful or important to the broader societal topic at hand?

[@laeliuss7495]

Is this a curse of the subreddit? Why does, from time to time, we have those absolute weirdo brainlets giving the worst takes of all time?

[@Sashitoge]

It is a containment zone to keep okbv pure

[@oxalicacid3194]

It's the fake subreddit, the real one is okbuddyvowsh

[@SirDeathDark]

I'm convinced that most of the people on the subreddit don't watch Vaush, don't like Vaush, and want nothing to do with Vaush. Some are subbed 'cause they bleed over from left-leaning liberal communities, some are tankies/fascists who are there to stir shit, and some, I don't know why they're there at all.

[@God_gundam36]

Probably because it's the easiest community hub people can entire, so naturally you get the biggest dumbasses

[@laeliuss7495]

​@@oxalicacid3194 True, it's insane how the pure retardation of OKBVaush has more cognitive abilities than whatever the fuck is happens with the main sub

[@Simile95]

The regression to gamergate is real. Debating on Twitter recently feels like being taken 10 years back in time.

[@alexroselle]

I have noticed that too, and I wonder if Elon taking over has accelerated that regression or how much it would have happened otherwise

[@frishter]

Good, things were better 10 years ago.

[@pancakes8670]

​@@alexroselleI feel like a lot of it on Twitter literally is just Elon Musk signal boosting the worst stuff imaginable. I don't really understand why people take Twitter users seriously when it's pretty much be demonstrably proven the coding of the website prioritizes the alt-right and extreme-right

[@xBINARYGODx]

@@alexroselle I mean, a decade of bans were undone overnight.

[@Diinytro]

@@frishter In what way?

[@ThacoTheGoblin]

I (m) had my eyes opened to this years ago. I had just finished high school and went to a party with a girl I met. I got her a drink, then after a while I took her outside for some alone time together. She went along with all of it, but as we went back inside she told me she couldn't stop thinking about how very wrong this all could've gone. She went along because she trusted me. Honestly I felt stupid and naive for not considering how my actions looked from her perspective.

[@paulsmart4672]

Bad feeling, right? A year or two back a new girl and work misses the bus when we're working late, and the weather is shit, and so I offer her a ride home... and I expect her to decline because I'm this strange man she doesn't know, but hey, I don't want to leave a new immigrant wandering around in blizzard in an unfamiliar city at night, so I ask her if she wants a ride and she takes me up on it. And so I drive her home. Now, had she said no, and made some polite excuse, that would have felt kinda bad. I would have felt a little wounded on a personal level, my pride or whatever, and really thought it was a shame that she ended up wandering around in a blizzard in an unfamiliar city at night because of this larger system we occupy. I might have even felt a little guilty about it, like I should have tried harder to establish rapport before that. But it also felt a little uncomfortable that she took me up on it, because what if I had been someone she shouldn't trust? What about some other girl, some other place, who thinks her coworker just doesn't want to leave someone literally out in the cold, and she made the wrong judgement? It's certainly happened to someone, somewhere, since then. Someone thought a predator was only me. That's a lot more upsetting than someone worrying that I might be a predator.

[@jackoski__19]

Im a gay man so I haven’t really thought about this stuff much until about a year ago, I became friends with two trans men who are dating. They were more recently transitioned and were still a decently effeminate because they wanted to be, so most people perceive them as women from the outside. We went to get food at a foodcourt, i left to go to the bathroom for like no more than two minutes and I come back to see this group of three dude bros sitting right next to them, one of them sitting where I was sitting. It didn’t really register with me what was happening initially, I just politely asked them to leave and they did. I asked my friends what that was all about and they just went “oh yeah, that happens sometimes”. These dudes were harassing them and it was just normal for them. Nothing like that had ever happened to me but they acted like it was nothing new. Now that I know them more, I’m much more aware of the shit they deal with on a daily basis and its just horrible

[@ijornhribrudkrvir]

Definitely felt this as a girl. Went for a drive with a guy I was talking about being roommates with, but it worked out differently. He wanted to scout some hiking trails so we went out of town, and I realized it was like 10pm and pitch dark. He could've taken me anywhere. I got my xacto knife I craft with out of my bag and tucked it under my leg just in case, but I think we both realised how sketchy it looked bc he addressed that it looks bad and we laughed about it, and did a sing along to Taylor Swift. He took me home and I had a great time, but the knife never left my side until I was out of the car. I was lucky. He was good. But had I rolled the dice wrong he could have done anything, dumped me in those woods and no one would ever find me, or know what happened.

[@elvis4868]

​@@ijornhribrudkrvirhe would be the prime suspect since hes the last person you interacted with, unless you didnt tell anyone then i suppose no one would know

[@ijornhribrudkrvir]

@@elvis4868 I had no friends at the time, I had just moved. Nobody would've even noticed I was gone for a good few days

[@SuperStingray]

Dudes really need to be capable of having platonic female friends. Nothing changed my perspective like hanging out with a friend at a convention and having strangers being *catagorically* more patronizing and forward with her than they've ever been with me.

[@justinsinger2505]

With a cursed title like that what’s the worst that could happen. 3 seconds into the video. Oh no

[@jbtube73]

...a half-hour in, and it's a BATTLEFIELD!!!

[@bicumber]

Segments like this are a big part of why I like Vaush so much. Women often sprint away from me when I walk at night or cross busy traffic to avoid passing me, I don't get butt-hurt and say "Oh so you'd rather get ran over than pass me? What are you, stupid?" I just get sad that the way our society functions causes women to feel that endangered by the presence of a man. Keep in mind though that part of the reason why people get scared of me is because I'm pretty huge compared to your average person, but still.

[@PropheticShadeZ]

I just read every comment in the video as im sad people might not like me. And im intelectualising why i feel like this badly

[@therideneverends1697]

The way i see it is if im talking to someone chances are i care about their well being, in which case i would hope they wouldent just immediately wholesale trust *anyone* really, but especially a 6,4 dude

[@supergluehotty]

Same. I had a kid exit a line because I got in it. Probably thought I would eat him. Foolish kid... He's way too thin and stringy.

[@TBLIVIN]

Love your comment. It's cultural misogyny and as a trans woman I have gotten treated like a "bitch" in a million different ways, I came out late but was never able to be a 'guys-guy' and highschools are identical to prisons. Men consciously police themselves on gender, media tells us what is outside acceptability and weak feminine men are still a go-to writing technique to quickly say someone sucks.

[@sierra4107]

I saw a video where a guy basically had this happen to him and then decided to chase down the woman, following her all the way back to her house yelling about “why you scared of me bitch” and dumb bitch this and that until she’s slamming the door in his face. Like wow hope you felt good after that one bud, really proved you’re not a creep 🙄

[@ASolidSnack]

So now we not only need the reddit atheists back, we need the reddit feminists too

[@c.b.-]

_Scenario:_ You are walking past a bar on your way to get tacos. You see three men exit the bar while bodily carrying a woman. She is uncoordinated and slurring her speech so much that at a glance you have no idea whether she is aware of where she is or whom she is with. _So_ do you assume _"not all men are bad"_ and just walk on to get your tacos, or do you take steps to find out what is happening. --- Because when this _EXACT_ situation happened, my friends and I damn well made sure the woman had other female friends who were helping ensure she stayed safe and who vouched for the men carrying her. The problem wasn't that the men with her were inherently untrustworthy, the problem is that women can't assume that men in this situation aren't the ones who _caused_ the woman's condition with the _intent_ to take advantage of her. It sucks that women have to feel like they _have_ to look out for one another.

[@Mike-zx6sl]

The reaction that other dudes are having to this is absolutely embarrassing and really REALLY eye opening, even about men in Vaush's own community.

[@fbaxter8551]

Cringing is not productive, but I can't help it. The secondhand embarrassment is ridiculous. I saw comments that this is a psyop created by the Israelis to distract from the protests or to create division in the lead up to the election. An unironic one. Is the concept of women's safety concerns really that foreign?

[@nullverba856]

Trolley cars don't get insulted over all the hypotheticals.

[@clamhammer2463]

It isn't going to stop here either. Men are waking up.

[@c.b.-]

I found the topic of toxic masculinity more eye opening after KZbinr _Beau of the Fifth Column_ had a video on how the term originally came from a Men's movement in the 80s. It's really sad how men are struggling so much more with everything society does in trying to shoehorn us into various boxes.

[@jakemyers5764]

I remember being this way when I was younger. I remember when I was like 19-20 I had a conversation like this with my sister and where she was talking about how women need to be careful around men and I did the “not all men you’re just being sexist judging all men” and she got visibly angry at me and went off about how several of her friends had been sexually assaulted by complete strangers. I remember in my head back then I thought “oh they probably weren’t or it wasn’t that bad” and I am so glad I grew up from that. These guys need some women in their lives they can talk to about this stuff whether it’s a friend, sister or other relative

[@poulhenne]

Women will consistently choose the bear, at least they will then be believed and not victimblamed like they do with a sexual assault from a man.

[@JustAnotherNamelessGuy]

On the second thought it be safer if they didn’t had any women in their lives.

[@hwelse]

Holy shit, character arc fr I'm glad you grew from that, amigo.

[@pancakes8670]

My wake up call was my last year of High school, when a friend and I were talking about a female friend of mine I had at the time. When she walked away, we had started bantering about how she was actually kind of attractive looking, and I made a comment to him "The only good thing about her is her ass". I kinda froze after that because I was kind of shocked at myself having said it, and I remember wondering why something so horrible would have came out of my mouth. I remember coming to the conclusion that I couldn't make the "not all men" arguments anymore because I myself had been making cruel comments about women behind their backs. Anyways I'm gay now and not interested in women. She's still a good friend of mine though.

[@avinashreji60]

@@pancakes8670Quite a whiplash that last sentence was

[@TheRealMarx]

"i'm gonna become black" - Vaush 2024

[@Montesama314]

Jumping straight to "black man" in discussions of women feeling uncomfortable around some men is really telling.

[@spicytofu6201]

As someone who got shit in the comments on the last video for agreeing with Vaush, this was vindicating lol

[@kekistani_meme_farmer7242]

But were you with a bear while agreeing with Vaush? 🤔

[@spicytofu6201]

@@kekistani_meme_farmer7242 he's with me now, pretty chill guy. I think his name is Fred...?

[@SatoKure]

@@spicytofu6201 Does he give out pizza?

[@yogidevendrabiriyani1777]

I fukkin love vaush . Even tho it appears i am the only person in his comments regularly over the age of 35.

[@spicytofu6201]

@@yogidevendrabiriyani1777 the age of the gamer gate types was something I brought up too. To me, it makes sense younger men would say things like this cause they're already lonely and isolated. That just means they're less likely to have had real conversations with women and have an attempt to empathize with them

[@carrias1]

If a woman who knew me saw me in the woods, she’d probably feel extremely relieved. The hypothetical is for a male stranger, but you definitionally aren’t a stranger to most of the women you know. I think a lot of the guys butthurt about the bear need to cross that threshold with more women, so much of this feels like guys who only ever talk to men bitching about artefacts of their own isolation.

[@xXFluffers]

BRITISH PERSON DETECTED, OPINION THROWN AWAY

[@kekistani_meme_farmer7242]

The twist: All the women are now too busy chatting up bears.

[@TheLithp]

Not to invite Vaush's wrath or anything, but statistically, the thing you called relieving is actually way more dangerous.

[@carrias1]

@@xXFluffers guilty :p

[@carrias1]

@@TheLithp true in practice, but women do tend to trust people they know and like far more than strangers

[@AlasKenn1]

I would choose the bear over the vaush subreddit users.

[@herb4n7egend]

it could be a family of polar bears and id choose the bears. mauling is a much easier death than death by annoyance

[@TheLizardKing752]

I'm a guy of similar stature to Vaush, and even I've had a dude slip something in my drink once, right in a popular bar on Capital Hill in Seattle. I fortunately regained awareness back at the guy's place and was able to leave before anything happened. But I have no memory between being in the bar and ending up at his place. Thing is, it's never something in a million years that would have occurred to me to be concerned about.

[@loopholesloopy]

Sorry that happened to you man, I'm glad you got out okay.

[@Cobalt985]

Crazy!! That's awful. Honestly I was triggered by this discourse but being a more feminine amab person this is a big reason I avoid bars. Harder to slip something into a joint haha (not blaming you at all I'm just a shut in)

[@ilovebooksandmycats669]

it reminds me of that time there was a study that said like 90% or something of women had experienced some kind of SA or SH in their life, and a bunch of men got enraged and were trying to gaslight everyone into thinking that’s insane and the women were lying or exaggerating and just calling them misandrists instead of listening to how prevalent this issue is

[@scslre]

you mean those phone surveys that counted being catcalled as SA?

[@ilovebooksandmycats669]

@@scslrenotice how both i and the study said SA “and”… *AND* SH. yes. catcalling, especially if you’re screaming vulgar things or it is repetitive (literally what catcalling is, only the most insane ppl think a kind brief compliment on your hair is catcalling) is SH. nice try with the gaslighting again. why can’t you just accept the fact that SA and SH are incredibly common issues? hmmm strange behavior really

[@ilovebooksandmycats669]

@@scslreso you’re either illiterate or making a really embarrassing attempt at gaslighting, because i clearly said SA *and* SH, which catcalling falls under.

[@scslre]

@@ilovebooksandmycats669 and _i_ said they counted catcalling as _assault._ are YOU illiterate?

[@matthewsanchez7953]

@@scslre Gotta get specific and split those hairs in order to defend your terrible position huh?

[@jdpolo8679]

I taught all my neices how to safely handle and use firearms, and I didn't do it because i was afraid they were going to be attacked by fucking bears. It breaks my heart that women have to cover their drinks in public, or go out in a group for safety, but i never see it as a personal attack.

[@tyruskarmesin5418]

Your reasoning would probably have had much more to do with bears if they lived in a community with as many bears as men walking around. The idea that the average man is worse than a bear is explainable only as bigotry.

[@jdpolo8679]

@tyruskarmesin5418 I would accept your premise if bears could be evil. Call me a bigot if you will, I've been called worse for less reason. I've seen too much casual monstrosity, both great and small, from "the average man" to just give them the benefit in this hypothetical.

[@jackoski__19]

@@tyruskarmesin5418 Dude your insecurity is insane. Commenting about how bears are worse than the average man under every comment is not gonna make women less afraid of you. You need to accept the reality of what women go through, and understand it because its not something you can debate away

[@tyruskarmesin5418]

@@jdpolo8679 It doesn't really matter if the bear or man is evil, just which one attacks.

[@tyruskarmesin5418]

@@jackoski__19 I have never disagreed that women have good reason to be cautious/fearful of men, or that we should talk about it. I just don't like the lies and hate.

[@Aloyz3n]

ok but would a black person rather be pulled over by a white cop or a polar bear, like am I right guys?

[@cheeto.burrito]

another way I've seen it asked is, "would you rather find a bear in your home or a white woman"

[@MintTea2005]

Bears CAN open pickle jars actually. It's called SMASH.

[@midnightflare9879]

One of my friend groups has mostly women. You have no idea about the level of spec ops they've been doing to lower the chances of getting targeted by some asshole. And I only know, because I was the "fake boyfriend" on a few occasions. I would not be able to tell otherwise. Seriously, the amount of subconcious and habituated stuff that goes into this is crazy!

[@haleyspence]

Literally passing around links to cheap fake-engagement rings last night to help our one friend who works retail to help dissuade creepy people AFTER she got a really really creepy creepy creepy message from a co-worker.

[@studionine4587]

Can we just be honest and acknowledge women carry pepper spray and tasers for a reason.

[@someonesomeone25]

I dont think women are as cautious as they should be. Neither are men. I'd feel.safer if I was allowed to carry and use a firearm.

[@watchingvids423]

It doesn't stop there. If you have multiple keys, then you've got a makeshift weapon, the "key knuckles" or "key fist."

[@SoLazy100]

I don't think this will work against bears

[@sugrado]

@@someonesomeone25 tbh I would feel less safe if everyone was allowed to carry a firearm

[@tyruskarmesin5418]

And also bear spray in regions with bears. This is not a debate about whether men are sometimes dangerous. It is a debate about whether the average man is worse than a gigantic territorial predatory wild animal.

[@DrakeRichter]

"Why are you all like this" 😂😂😂 That moment when you realize it is so much worse than you could have possibly imagined

[@williamallcorn1605]

I s2g the “man or bear” thing got me reflecting on all the ways I’ve personally experienced men being frightening or threatening - both as a pretty androgynous male and then as a transwoman. Even before I was on hormones I got hit on just for being even slightly girly looking - you don’t have to be a 10 out of 10 bombshell to get it, even scrungly girls in hoodies get it. I remember once as a teen the local barber pulled the wrong drawer open and I saw a Polaroid he took of a woman’s genitals while she was in the very seat I was sitting in, and I literally never mentioned it to anyone before right now cuz he was a respected member of the community and it would only hurt me to do so. I can’t imagine how terrified I would have been if I saw that and was cis. I stopped walking around Atlanta when I went there for my doctors appointments for hormones because I kept getting leered at or told to smile on the street. My mother told me a story about an abusive relationship she was on before my father, and how she literally had to pull a gun on the guy to get away from him. Then later he was calling her mother trying to find her even years later. This is just the reality of being even perceived as female in public at all. It’s uncomfortable and transitioning makes you - or at least should make you - acutely aware of it. I’m very glad I’m still strong as an ox even without working out that much - luckily my mother is naturally strong too so estrogen didn’t soften me up I guess. It makes me feel a lot safer, but I know I’m an outlier there. That’s what men have to understand.

[@eliasE989]

Presidential debates 2024 Topic: Man vs bear

[@thelouster5815]

I’d watch that.

[@jessjess23brooks89]

I honestly thought this was discourse on how so many dudes think they can take on a bear 1v1. I'm not disappointed but I'm also not not disappointed.

[@hwelse]

Bear: 🐻 _(grunting into the microphone)_ "y'know, he doesn't always articulate it well, but i think his policies on helping the homeless are really good. he's got my vote."

[@phatman9762]

It sucks that women are afraid of me despite me personally never doing anything to hurt them but it's still a justified fear. I don't take it personally. Instead I do my best to put women around me at ease by just not talking to them unless I need to. I'm polite if they talk to me, but the rule of "if people want to talk to you, they'll talk to you" has served me well.

[@andythedestro12]

Yeah it's really not that hard to not make people uncomfortable. Vaush literally had guides on how to do this and idk why guys get all weird about this.

[@scslre]

​@@andythedestro12apparently your mere existence makes people uncomfortable.

[@Jorge-np3tq]

It's understandable but not justified. Prejudging individual people by their gender is never justified.

[@matthewsanchez7953]

@@scslre Look at you, all up and down the comment section attempting to stir up bs.

[@thrashingputz5163]

Ahh, the MGTOW strat.

[@ijornhribrudkrvir]

"I dont think people realise how horrific bears can be." WE'RE NOT PICKING THE BEAR BECAUSE WE THINK WE'D SURVIVE AN AGGRESSIVE ONE. WE KNOW WE WOULDN'T. ITS STILL THE PREFERABLE ALTERNATIVE TO THE HORRORS A MAN CAN PUT US THROUGH

[@kaydenl6836]

You think men are just as likely to torture you as a bear is to maul you? You think you’d come out unscathed more times when encountering 100 bears than when encountering 100 men?

[@estellelecoz2961]

​@@kaydenl6836 go put on a dress and get out, try it

[@ijornhribrudkrvir]

@@kaydenl6836 bears are usually skittish and mind their business. Not all bears. Not all men. But a bear will always act like a bear, and being mauled/eaten is the worst it'll do. But I know just how easy it is for men who seem friendly to turn dangerous when they notice I'm alone, or try to lure me to second locations for god knows what. It's happened. It probably will again. A sadistic man can hold me for years and make me wish all he'd done is kill me. A bear doesn't hurt you for the sake of it. The worst case scenarios just have a clear winner when it comes to what's less shitty- and if that makes you upset you're allowed to feel that way.

[@ijornhribrudkrvir]

@@kaydenl6836 in the end it's not about whether I'd get away unscathed. It's a "should the worst happen, I'll take the bear." And if you think we're wrong to be afraid go read the toybox killer transcript and come back to me

[@septimaserpent]

​@@ijornhribrudkrvirOr Just Look Up What Happened To Junko Furuta.😤

[@Allison_Hart]

as a womanish thing myself. i do get how maybe this isn't the best hypothetical ever, or at least the framing of it / the fact that it went viral without us getting a chance to explain it better. but i've started explaining to people that the point isn't ACTUALLY answering the question "man vs. bear" it's the fact that a man, if asked this question, would answer "man, duh. wtf?" and a woman would answer "well does the man seem threatening? is he armed? how quickly is he approaching me? is there any other information i can immediately tell that would indicate whether he is a danger to me?" that is literally the only point of the hypothetical, but, some ppl keep acting as if the only ones saying bear are stupid nutjobs who don't understand cuz they've never been a Boy Scout or whatever the fuck. this always happens when a feminist issue comes up, willfully misunderstanding or reducing the point, to make the thing seem dumb. at the same time, i understand that if anything goes viral, then it gets twisted and turned into a joke. to that end, all i have to say is, date Halsin from Baldur's Gate 3, he can be the man AND the bear! :)

[@Chrissy717]

This video made me question how tf I didn't find out I was trans like 5 years earlier. I genuinely thought only right wing nutjobs would be misinterpreting the point deliberately in order to make it seem dumb, but apparently a majority of boys and men live in a different world. I honestly didn't even need 15 seconds to understand why women would choose the bear over the men, heck, I've been around enough men. But as I said, I'm trans and it seems like my brain has been doing all sorts of funny stuff... Come to think of that, I have some catch-up to do with some people.

[@Thyne_whom_jests]

“Womanish thing” is fucking Hilarious. No hate of course.

[@shinystarmiestudios4179]

":it's the fact that a man, if asked this question, would answer "man, duh. wtf?"" In the middle of the woods? I'd probably try to evade both. And I'm a man.

[@bluejava9397]

Oh wait until you get the ones who say, “I’d be afraid of a WoMaN, because she could falsely accuse me of SA!” - and dead serious, not joking.

[@Egg_thing]

I feel like maybe some of the people who struggle to understand the idea that "being afraid of/cautious around men is not implying all men are rapists" would have an easier time getting it if they imagine it as a person with a loaded gun instead. Not all people who carry guns are violent, very rarely does seeing someone with a gun mean you're gonna get shot, but I'm still gonna be way more careful and worried around a guy with a gun then a guy without.

[@dogeatdog6157]

Na man. You are coping. Remember they are affirmatively picking the bear.

[@goon6932]

Your in the foresr, would you rather run into a bear or a man with a gun

[@Jorge-np3tq]

People choose to carry guns, and in that choice, they know they're agreeing to be feared. People don't choose to be men.

[@ThingsAreGettingTooSpicy]

To be honest, I would feel more scared of a bear than someone with a gun. A bear can run what, 30 mph? I'm not outrunning it. That thing is a hell of a lot better at hunting me down in the woods than a human. Human with a gun? Sure they're about as lethal as a bear but can do it at range. If they're a really good shot yeah I'm in trouble, but if they miss and I keep running, well it's a forest with trees and cover. I at least can stand a chance of getting away, but with a bear I can't run or hide or climb. I'm done for. It's a natural predator and I'm prey without a weapon or a group.

[@WBWhiting]

You underestimate how committed misogynists are to not understanding the reality that other people than them have different fears that are legitimate and rational.

[@coffeemaenad7455]

I'd much rather meet a man than a bear. Just picture the scene. He shoots the bear on sight, smiles reassuringly. Goes "Don't worry ma'am, I will keep you safe." I'm like "I don't know how to thank you." He's like "No need to thank me, just come hang out in my basement til you've calmed down. I'm just locking the doors so you can feel extra safe. And I'll need to take your phone so I can trawl for any more young female friends of yours I need to. Um. Inform' I'm like "Wow that's so considerate." As I hear the padlocks clang in the darkness, I feel so grateful I met the man. Pick me.

[@GavinG_]

This was good lmao

[@opheliaoftheripples9472]

LOVE THIS

[@appa609]

The bear mauls the rapist. Then he mauls you. You're both dragged back to its den still alive to later feed the cubs.

[@AkerfeldtTveitan-yi4xm]

Lmfao this made me chuckle

[@jingbot1071]

@@appa609 Yeah, Revenant still sounds way better than Poughkeepsie Tapes...

[@SkycometFallen]

Women are taught from about middle school how to protect themselves. There are specific classes for women on dealing with dangerous men. Some of the things I learned: NEVER leave your drink unattended and don’t accept it if you didn’t watch it get made. Your keys make a decent self defense w3apon. Put them in your fist with the key 🔑 facing out between your fingers. Travel in groups. Before getting in your car at night, check under it and with your phone light. Don’t have your headphones in both ears when out for a run. You won’t be able to see someone come up behind you. If he grabs you from behind, slam your heel down as hard as you can on his foot or grab his 🥜 and twist. If you’re facing him, don’t try to kick his 🥜, he’s expecting that. He’ll grab your leg and flip you over. Instead take the heel of your palm and shove hard against the bottom of his nose to drive it into his brain. When Vaush said women are LITERALLY taught this stuff in the last video, he was correct. We have classes about this

[@ChillingTales12]

Nobody taught me that

[@MissDemeanor99]

Thank you for your empathy towards women.

[@summerlovinxx]

that is such a sick handle holy shit

[@deathwave506]

guys being upset about women being scared of them is so deeply unproductive from both a feminist perspective and also a (meaningful) men's rights one. like as a trans dude who has lived both sides of this dynamic, being read as a threat fucking sucks! it does! it's emotionally taxing and demoralizing and people engage with you very very coldly a lot of the time. all of that genuinely sucks shit. it's also a lot better than, as vaush points out, living a literal lifetime of being surrounded by an ambient level of creep behavior and violence at all times. i think vaush was totally justified in being dismissive of the hurt feelings/insecurities in the thread because those people were acting genuinely unhinged and misogynistic, but i do think that feeling of being upset by being seen as a threat is one that is both valid and can also be harnessed for good. i hate being seen as a threat and so i do a lot of stuff to try to seem less threatening to women, and more importantly, i call that shit out when i see it from other men. if you don't want to be treated as a threat surround yourself with people who aren't threatening. create social spaces for yourself where that behavior is completely fucking unacceptable. like, idk dude, if the consequences of patriarchy bother you then go try to do something about patriarchy instead of screaming at the only group of people who have it worse than you under patriarchy. grow up.

[@displayer6023]

You don't have the right to feel upset, you are a man. How about you single-handedly dismantle patriarchy and then you might be allowed to feel bad

[@linusmlgtips2123]

the problem being though, individuals can't really do much to change systemic problems. That said, just about all women aren't unhinged about every man that they're around. There's no need to feel paranoid.

[@FLCM]

" if the consequences of patriarchy bother you then go try to do something about patriarchy instead of screaming at the only group of people who have it worse than you under patriarchy. grow up." Uh. dude, Its a systemic issue. I can't magic away the patriarchy just because being amab means I rank a bit higher on the patriarchal pecking order than you do lol.

[@duncanmacleod6274]

Counter-point, isn't the framing of this discourse needlessly provoking that reaction to some extent? If you're willing to admit that this framing can be really insulting, shouldn't we use some framing devices that aren't? I find the attitude of dismissing negative reactions of people who don't agree with us to be one of the left's most self-destructive tendencies. Are we trying to get men to listen, or are we trying to purity test them and dunk on them or call them incels if they don't like what we're saying? Those goals are at odds.

[@deathwave506]

@@FLCM and yet the only way a systemic social issue like that is going to be addressed is through individuals doing things about it. you can be mad online or you can go outside and make the world a better place. which way western man

[@ArchiTech343]

He shouldnt have to but, I genuinely love that he spent so much time on this topic.

[@TheFlinchyDinosaur]

I think an aspect of the question that nobody is talking about is that you expect to see bears in the woods. If I was in the scenario I'd be more scared of the man, and I say that AS A MAN. If I see a bear in the woods it's just living it's life, if I find a man in the woods, he's there for a reason

[@miyuedelfelt2676]

Yeah, everyone was ignoring the actual scenario to try to make it “are men worse then bears?” Rather then taking into account that it’s specifically about meeting in the woods at random, not in a social situation where I imagine we might get different answers. At least this has made me more confident in myself as a guy because so many people lowered the bar so far with their reactions to the hypothetical.

[@summerlovinxx]

​@@miyuedelfelt2676 you keep that bar and that head held high, king

[@VirtuousVitriol]

These walnuts giving Magic a bad name...Wizards does that well enough on its own, thank you.

[@alsyrriad]

Calling someone a “walnut” as an insult is so fucking hilarious to me, idk why lmfao

[@MossImp]

BEGIN THE PURGE!!!!!

[@Em3ga]

"Be the Kendrick to these Drakes."

[@Balthazar228]

This is why OKBV was, is, and always should be his real Reddit

[@serversurfer6169]

*“Name **_one_** harm caused by the Men Are Dangerous trope! You can’t!!”* 🤔 You mean beyond the apparently real possibility of a woman, lost in the woods, _fleeing from probable assistance?_ Well, you mentioned the disparities in convictions and sentencing. Does that not count as tangible harm caused by the perpetuation of stereotypes? Then how about the essentialization and resultant normalization of bad behavior? If we say that men are naturally aggressive, don’t we similarly imply that it’s beyond their control? If it is normal for men to seize everything that comes into their reach, is it a stretch for them to imagine that’s how they’re meant to behave, whether that be God’s will, or Nature’s? If we say, “This is how men behave,” why are we surprised when that is how boys act? *“Don’t say that haven’t engaged in this sort of behavior! **_All_** men have, including me!!”* Yeah, that’s the kinda stuff I’m talking about. Another excellent example of essentialization, Vaush. 💜 Of course, little girls display precisely the same behaviors, but we express shock when they do. By contrast, we essentially tell little boys that they should stop acting like boys. Or at least stop getting caught, or something. 🤷‍♂️

[@ultravioletiris6241]

I think all of this elucidates that the hypothetical is a bad hypothetical. Dying on the hill of a bad hypothetical doesn’t actually serve the cause of spreading awareness or empowering to avoid harm. It just serves the vanity of those who employ it

[@STARK0181]

​@@ultravioletiris6241 PREACH

[@STARK0181]

WHAT A F**KING HOME RUN!!!!!!

[@vylbird8014]

I've managed to accidentally terrify a woman by approaching her in the street. As soon as she saw a strange man approach she sped up, and once I was close enough to actually speak she looked at me with terror. I only wanted to ask if she'd seen a bus pass by, as I wasn't sure if it was running late or if I'd already missed it.

[@pt7266]

Bro do I just not know any real women? All of the women in my life (including my wife) told me they would prefer the man to the bear. I think they understand that the “risk” of a man in the woods is taken multiple times a day? A random stranger with an obsession can take you off the street if they want.

[@someonesomeone25]

I think location and age and socio-economic level matters a lot.

[@Preciouspink]

It was you,that asked the question.Context is everything.

[@pt7266]

@@Preciouspink Maybe, they basically laughed and then asked who tf would pick a bear. Maybe if Freddy Krueger asked the same question, he would get a different response.

[@Preciouspink]

@@pt7266 I was given the bear response too. I think women react circumstantially. You are good and make a good representation as you provide and protect. So the relatable answer is to say animal not man. If she was among women,you may not get the same answer. Women are also masters of interpersonal relationships and naturally give an answer pleasing to whom is asking the question. They are agreeable at least in the statistical analysis of gender.

[@beetlebob4675]

I said bear. Without a pause. Then I asked questions about the scenario. What time of day is it? Like, it is dark? Do I have any weapons on me? If so, which ones? What kind of bear is it? Based on those parameters, my answers changed. But they didn't stay the same. If it's daytime, I'll take the risk with the man. But only if I have a gun or a machete. If it's nighttime, and I have bear mace on me, I'll choose the bear. If it's a black or brown bear, I could have a decent chance of scaring it away or surviving the encounter. Especially if I have a weapon. I might choose the bear. If it's a grizzly or a polar bear... Idk. Might take the risk of being the newest mantle trophy for Steven Serial.😂

[@renawhitlock6752]

"women being cautious of men because of male violence is bad because what if the same was said about black people" is an all around horrible take because not only does it completely miss the point, its also just inadvertently defending racism because it implies black people caused their own oppression by being violent

[@ArDeeMee]

It’s just 13-50 allover again…

[@andythedestro12]

Yeah this is the equivalent of hearing back people are nervous around cops and going "hey man they protect the community. Plenty of black people have had great encounters with the cops. this is just anti cop bias" Actually such a good litmus test.

[@ThingsAreGettingTooSpicy]

No, it's implying that irrational fear of an entire demographic caused their oppression. There is no "man gene" that makes you a monster in the womb, just the same as there is nothing about skin color that makes you that.

[@pickcollins9910]

@@andythedestro12people choose to be cops. Men don’t choose to be men

[@robr7815]

@@andythedestro12 the difference is that you are judging the job rather than the inherent characteristics of that person. To say that white people are nervous around black people because they perceive black people as ______. (fill it with any racist stereotype). - this is obviously racism. Hence. any in which are is always wrong. We can't stop being male. You SHOULD be cautious around PEOPLE. Don't get over specific with males. Bad people do bad things - and males tend to take advantage of this because of their physical advantages - just like any rich person is statistically more likely to use their money to exert more power and corruption. It just so happens that men, biologically, have the means to have power and be corrupt. Badness does not come from them being a man. It comes from the character of that person.

[@TeddyLinux]

"Better to meet a bear robbed of her cubs than a fool bent on folly" Lol things truly never change

[@purplemossclump5505]

The sheer amount of double standards in this whole conversation is staggering.

[@alexkats30]

I appreciate this segment. I'm a pretty thoughtful guy, but it was a learning moment, as some of the aspects of this conversation I hadn't thought through before. This whole man vs bear convo seems less annoying now.

[@summerlovinxx]

nature is healing and we are here for it

[@matthewsanchez7953]

100% tide of panicked insecurity from both Reddit and Chat with a LARGE amount of totally misunderstanding how hypotheticals work.

[@Athanase48067]

If the bear was Kuma from Tekken, women would always pick the bear

[@akgfilming]

TRUE and halsin

[@Cobalt985]

Well so would I but that's just my furry ass

[@arskakarva7474]

Heck every bar should have Kuma there to make sure men behave themselves.

[@PavewayIII-gbu24]

This is the ultimate self report if you don't understand

[@someonesomeone25]

Report of what?

[@Diinytro]

Vaush is finally discovering that just because he is "ironic" in his sexism, that doesn't always mean his fans are going to catch on to and/or disagree with the irony.

[@Caleb-il7om]

This is a really dumb comment, the irony is so over the top it's obvious to anyone that has 10 IQ or above. It's dumber that Vaush would ban people in his community that think it's a bad hypothetical, accusing those that don't like the hypothetical of being combative and unhelpful, yet he's the one that has harrassed women, and not leftists like myself, who are happily partnered, older, and never done those things. Great community here

[@asparagoosagus5954]

Ever since early high-school through adulthood its just so happened that most of my close friends have been girls and women. I remember at first I thought it was weird that I happened to be friends with 3 of the rare girls who had horrifying stories of things men did to them. Over time as I met and befriended more of them that was the case with almost every single one of them, almost all of them have a few *horrifying* stories and all of them have had scary stories. It's not just a few of them, its pretty much all of them. I think back to how i was before I had a lot of women as friends, I actually had no idea what things are like for them. I thought women were hysterical about it and loved complaining... I think when a young boy hasn't really been close to women its really hard to see just how different life is for them... tbh now i think that a woman would have to be an idiot or delusional to not be a little nervous being somewhere alone with me - they dont know that I'm not going to do anything to them, but i think it is very reasonable for them to think i might. And does it suck that women default to being afraid of me? Of course it does, it makes you feel like some kind of monster and that can feel pretty sad - but I'm not the victim here. Some things in life aren't fair, and this is a situation that is more unfair to women than it is to us, it is better to be unfairly feared than it is to be unfairly afraid. Honestly I'm always really scared for my women friends... They're so so so much weaker than I am.. like thinking about how easy it would be for a man physically the same as me to hurt or dominate them is really scary, and of course I know that it is FAR scarier for them. We need to have a lot of compassion for them

[@summerlovinxx]

SEE?! IT'S NOT THAT HARD 😭😭😭

[@CupOTea-nz9ow]

I understand the hypothetical, it’s not actually about the bear, etc etc. But if you’re wondering why your community is like this, it’s because, while you may have said a couple of times over 4 years that implicit bias and bigotry may not be completely eradicated, you have consistently defeated most of your debate opponents by pointing out their essentialist views. Any comparison to Nazi germany, PF, “but do you condemn hamas” etc. Now as a straight white cisman, I’m not harmed by the sexism here, and I understand why a lot of women have this knee jerk response. But you have also explicitly stated that the unironic man hating from gamer gate lead to TERFs gaining huge prominence. Again. I get the conversation. I’m not being harmed by this. I understand the thought experiment. It’s good to be aware of your behaviors socially around others, etc, etc. I’m just presuming some of the frustrations you are reading in your community.

[@infrequenteffort3231]

I never comment on stuff like this, but here goes. I agree with his points about how women perceive men, social dynamics between oppressors and the oppressed, and the silliness of comparing men to black people. I also get how frustrating it can be to discuss this with people who seem unable to engage with the basic idea of the conversation. The woman who posted about being afraid of men while also feeling upset with that feeling was so concise that I'm not sure how anyone could miss the point. This isn't complicated. I've lived my whole life being careful of how I interact with woman because of my gender and appearance. I don't wont to give the impression that I have some major issue with this, but there is something he said I disagree with. At 17:49 he says that comments promoting biases against men aren't harmful or impede progress. He said in the previous video that he doesn't think it hurts men as a social class. I think he's wrong about this. These aren't jokes at the expense of men, but expressions of distain that reinforce prejudice. It plays into toxic views society has towards men, and polarizes men against feminism. I have personally witnessed both. Often when I'm talking with men about the social dynamics between the genders, they seem to be pulled to the right by these kinds of comments. They can tell the difference between a joke and a hateful sneer. When people jokingly agree with the hateful sneer it makes men feel like they are under attack. TO BE CLEAR, I try to talk these guys away from those opinions. This is having a serious effect on the stance men have towards feminists in particular and feminism as a whole. It's similar to how aggressive comments about how religion should be banned can turn progressive Christians away from left leaning political circles. It reminds them too much of militant atheism. The same can happen with men, who in almost every way should be left leaning, when they hear things that remind them of the harsh social treatment they have faced from women. A whole chunk of the male population was turned away from progressive gender ideas by Tumblr era misandrists masquerading as feminists (most of whom are now TERFs). On the other hand, I've know women who have strong biases against men, that are often informed by comments like that. Obviously, its not that they just saw someone tweet "kill all men" and then they changed all their views on men. They have legitimate fears of men which are turned into toxic opinions by unchallenged expressions like these. I've been the recipient of these kinds of attitudes. Men who suffer abuse by women are often seen with suspicion by other women because they've come to see men through a hostile lens. Comments like these contribute to the proliferation of those views. No one sees a comment like "men should be imprisoned at birth" as an advocation for a real policy, but some see it as an exaggeration of reality. I hope this doesn't come off like I'm radically opposed to anything he was saying, or just looking for a reason to complain about him. I'm very sympathetic to his frustration. I'm also not saying that toxic comments should be banned and the people posting them should be ostracized. I'm just saying that they do have an effect on both men and women, and that writing them off as irrelevant isn't helpful. It's a small criticism and I sincerely hope it doesn't add negativity to the discussion.

[@DingusMcBrungus]

Good nuanced take I think for these guys it's all based on a real valid feeling of "it feels bad to be negatively stereotyped on the actions of some within my group," but they're not processing it healthily or seeing the whole picture, and they end up making these weird comparisons and remarks and try to tell women they're wrong

[@zoldrek7366]

"I'm also not saying that toxic comments should be banned and the people posting them should be ostracized." Why the hell not? Leftist communities have no issues banning people over much milder stuff - like calling out the double standard of calling women "women" and men "males". If community tolerates blatant misandry, then any self-respecting man is completely in the right to not engage with it in good faith.

[@ntwadumela1511]

Also Vaush might not be implying all men are rapist but he is implying they aren’t doing enough about rapist. Which is bullshit. It’s funny how he’s acting like ppl in chat are emotional when he’s the one freaking out and banning everyone 😂

[@mahskmusic]

If have heard many stories of sexual assault or worse from basically every women/feminine person I know. I have never heard a story of a man doing anything about that. Not even if there are OBVIOUS signs of another man being a predator. The only thing I've heard from men in response to the stories is "what were _you_ wearing?" or "why didn't _you_ pay attention to your drink?" This is exactly what "every woman knows a women who has been raped, but no man knows a (male) rapist" means.

[@ntwadumela1511]

@@LightningBolt-dr9lz that’s not what I’m doing I’m simply asking what does this accountability look like??? Rapist and women beaters go to jail and while in jail get murdered so frequently by the other inmates the other criminals the other BAD men that they have to be put on isolation or special populations. Men do speak and do things about bad men it’s just impossible to bring the violence to a halt so wtf is it that Vaush is talking about? He’s just running his mouth