Saw class guide and strategy for Gloomhaven

[@MrHawtNSmexy]

Great guide as always! For those looking to focus more on healing and support, keep in mind that Hand of the Surgeon bottom + Bedside Manor top gives every healed figure a large medical pack card, including yourself! Also, using healing potions and items counts as a heal action for Hand of the Surgeon bottom.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Thanks for watching glad you liked it! Great advice there too for a more medic build.

[@MandatoryQuest]

So are you a Saw hater or a Saw lover? Become a Patron for early access to videos - www.patreon.com/mandatoryquest Grab some sweet merch - www.mandatoryquest.com

[@Mirsset]

Definitely Saw lover!

[@jfseguin4005]

Favorite character!

[@sortehuse]

My favorite of the characters I have played so far. I really like him.

[@Coder2k23]

i feel it's an underrated merc

[@MandatoryQuest]

@@Coder2k23 definitely agree with that. People often focus on the healing and not the OP damage and control stuff.

[@septimustavi9352]

The bottom of amputate is absolutely amazing in scenarios where you have allies that must survive...heal the ally and stun them so they don't do something reckless or stupid (like rush into a room full of enemies). There is one scenario in Gloomhaven where this ability makes the scenario super easy :D

[@MandatoryQuest]

Good point I didn't think about that!

[@Infinity-0033]

#38?

[@septimustavi9352]

Yep.

[@timblighton6216]

Amputate + Curative Mixture = heal 10 and no stun (plus no any negative conditions).

[@joelheinschel8233]

Another great video! Thanks a lot for doing all of these. I have spent a ridiculous amount of time playing this game in digital and I blame you and your guides! They have really helped my in understanding how to play this game!

[@MandatoryQuest]

Thanks for watching and enjoying them Joel it means a lot :)

[@jonathannorthcutt5793]

Really love this guy with a brute Frontline he always ends up taking a tonne of dmg and those lrg medpacks means I can move my brute into position to retaliate and heal at the same turn while having my *healer* not have to waste his turn on small heals to get him back up

[@jerryharris876]

1:04:49. Prep For Surgery is an awesome card. It turned me from a support character who could barely do damage to a huge melee dps/tank who would hand out medical packs while I was by my allies.

[@PriZ0nM1ke]

One thing about hold back the pain bottom that you failed to mention: it works for the whole round, meaning that control abilities get completely broken (mindthief and music note have some). Awesome guide!

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yeah good point that can work but like you say other merc and cards dependent, so not one to lean on unless you have the combo.

[@jfseguin4005]

I played that character more than any others. From level 1 to 9. Even forgotten circles! I can say that your guide is pretty accurate! I would keep Vaccine longer as it is your only range attack and poison scale well. I agree however that vaccine is more interesting at 4 players than 2. A great card/ item combo is Bloody axe+ eagle eye goggles with Hold back the pain and bloody saw ( or gentleman angers) Then you use your star earing to recover all your item and cards and damage! I also think the best enhancement to get after the Jump is Disarm on Bloody Saw. This with Hold back the pain and Prevention , you'll send your enemies to the shrink just before they die!

[@MandatoryQuest]

Good call with the enhancement on Bloody Saw. Its always a good idea to stack disarm or stun with wound, and the hold back the pain synergy is so sweet.

[@Riggwelter00]

Just unlocked! Extremely excited to play him.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Me too in my deadly playthrough ;)

[@dtnuh]

Research The Cure is fantastic, especially for a tank! You didn't really mention that it does combine both Vaccine and Booster Shot onto one card, so both a Shield 1 and immunity to all negative conditions (which are very common late game.) You can also break a very specific item with this, as it will nullify the downside said item does. It's been my go-to on digital every time!

[@MandatoryQuest]

Good point there are some great combos with it. I’ve just found playing multiplayer Saw I’d rather have the fun myself 😋

[@MalkavDraconic]

I clocked that, skipping over the immune to negative conditions after the shield effect. Running in a game with a and debating grabbing this class alongside it for rediculous tank times.

[@nthnthms1212]

Love him he can really open on and do some crazy dmg

[@dtnuh]

Also, please consider doing a second edition Diviner guide! There are very few of them out there, would love to see/hear other opinions/builds/etc.

[@MandatoryQuest]

I haven’t played any diviner myself yet but I’d like to

[@CarlChipman]

The halberd is almost a game breaker. All those “… all adjacent” attacks become monstrous.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Unfortunately halberd only works with single target melee attacks.

[@Badbentham]

Especially of consideration in the Campaign, where you may start with some Prosperity levels: If you drop Precaution later anyways, then Vital Strike could be a worthwhile investment; at least giving the option in some scenarios for a big, while a bit situational, AoE burn effect, combined with a useful Move 4.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yeah not a bad idea, generally the medical pack mechanic is underwhelming. Its a good XP earner, and bit of value in down turns and when you don't need to move. If you are already coming in at a good level it might not be necessary. I still like the initiative though so you have to take that into consideration too.

[@sortehuse]

I didn't bring Battlefield Medicine most of the time but it was very useful to bring in in certain scenarios.

[@danielvennie6005]

In guildmaster I enhanced curative mixture top with strengthen and then used it with hand of the surgeon. Hold back the pain and hand of the surgeon give level one enhancements so much value.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yeah some good enhancements on this one for sure

[@enriquevaldesmedina]

I am a Saw lover!!!!!

[@joshualucas4931]

Will you add an updated "which class should you play" video for frost haven starting characters now that they are fully released?

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yes a bit closer to release I think 👍

[@tbone9474]

I'm thinking of the Plagueherald and the sawbones duo could have great synergy. Conditions everywhere!

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yeah definitely some good synergy there. He also works really well with Cragheart and an enhanced Dirt Tornado :)

[@tbone9474]

@@MandatoryQuest oh yes I know Cragheart is your favourite:) my father is a big fan of him

[@asatowolfe]

A forbidden combination that has easily become me and my partner's most overpowered team is using Saw + Red Guard + Music Note + Cthulu. Some spoilers in first comment.

[@asatowolfe]

Saw and Music Note can easily result in Shield Spikes becoming Retaliate 10 or more even without optimal equipment or enchantments. It really trivializes the game on most difficulties to the point that crowd control (disarm/stuns) actually slows down the game. Since Red Guard becomes a near unstoppable wall that enemies unalive against the moment they try to attack him (due to his shields being higher than most health pools), its better to just Muddle and Immobilize to make it so enemies doing ranged attacks won't bother moving out of range since they won't gain advantage (or simply can't) - meaning they'll take 10+ damage or more for being within retaliate range. In Deadly difficulty, enemies that do manage to roll an attack higher than Red Guard's shields will still have a high chance of drawing a miss due to the crazy curse generation from Music Note and Cthulu. There are scenario types that this strategy doesn't work well with- such as ones where Red Guard isn't able to draw all of the aggro (surround scenarios such as Scenario #48), but having a near indestructible Red Guard who is immune to status effects and curses while buffed by Research the Cure (and further enhanced by Precaution, Syringe and Defensive Ditty) drawing aggro while enemies harm themselves and get picked off by the rest of the party is wild. Even moreso if the Music Note is using item summons like the Jade Hawk or Power Core that will make use of its insane modifier deck while staying alive due to the party-wide shields that do effect those summoned allies. I kinda wish I hadn't stumbled upon this strat since it does remove a lot of fun from the game, but as far as optimization goes, it's definitely one of the crazier combinations. I recommend doing builds to have fun though. Saw is actually pretty fun outside of the support build. His damage and modifiers aren't bad and having item summons drawing your modifiers to get you items back is great.

[@thearchivist250]

I love this hero so much. I unlocked the Sun and the Bonesaw nearly the same time. While Sun is likely objectively better, Bonesaw is more fun. Good damage and disable. The med packs help low hand heroes like Scoundrel or Spellweaver so much.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Hot take time! Saw is actually better in my opinion. Sun has a high skill floor and a good ceiling, but Saw when played right has a much higher ceiling IMO.

[@thearchivist250]

@@MandatoryQuest fair enough. you are far better at the game, so i'll take it.

[@quavuva]

YOU get a medpack! YOU get medpack!

[@MandatoryQuest]

Everyone: but I don’t need one…. Saw: I DONT CARE!

[@mbra8228]

Thx mate

[@MandatoryQuest]

You're welcome thanks for watching :)

[@joelheinschel8233]

1:16:28 Hell yeah.

[@adoria]

Love your guides and videos, but I disagree with your take on Mobile Response. I play almost exclusively on Deadly with a 4 party group and Mobile Response is one of my favorite cards. It's an autoburn on turn 1 for me

[@MalkavDraconic]

Prep for surgery top on play: what happens when you use hold back the pain bottom with amputate top? Does it attack enemies AND heal allies? Or do you have to choose to heal an ally OR attack everything?

[@MandatoryQuest]

I believe you change the attack to a heal, so the bottom of hold back the pain wouldn't trigger because its no longer an attack and it specifies attack.

[@MalkavDraconic]

@@MandatoryQuest my inner munchkin is sad at this…. It’s probably for the best.

[@MandatoryQuest]

@@MalkavDraconic I mean house rule it if you want, I won't tell anyone ;)

[@hammerspace8866]

You didn't even mention how grizzly trauma's bottom combo's with euthanize's top. Move, give out poison, wound and muddle to multiple enemies and kill a normal enemy.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Oh yeah that too

[@funmaker77]

How do medical packs work with tinkerers level nine card? Can you get lost cards for Med-packs? Edit: And how does vaccine work with curse? Does it protect me from my pendant?

[@MandatoryQuest]

Med packs only say they cant be used to negate damage, but nothing about burning them for other costs. However I could also see the point that because they can never "go" to the burn pile (they go to the Saws supply once used) is it possible to actually burn them at all. Definitely an interesting one and I'm afraid I cant give you a definitive answer. Yes immunity would protect you from the curse. The original rules stated that when a character needs to pay an additional cost (like stun self or immobilize self) but for some reason cannot (immunity) then they cannot play the action. This was however overturned later on by Isaac himself I believe, which makes synergy like this cooler. However if you were to draw curses obtained before you had immunity they would still apply. Immunity only stops you from having to take new curses.

[@funmaker77]

Chimeric Formula (Card 060): So this is probably the most ridiculous action in the game. You're level 9, so have a little fun. The bottom action allows for any class to get the card of any another class in their hand to use as they would their own cards. For instance, the Brute could gain one of the Mindthief's augments. The sky's the limit, except that lost cards that cannot be recovered still cannot be recovered. I found this in another context (mindthief augments with the bottom) and there he states that we should just have fun. I think though one could try if it works in digital version. But I'll need to wait some more cause I'll buy it when we finish the campaign in the tabletop version.

[@MandatoryQuest]

@@funmaker77 your on about the other half though right to burn cards to get back other burned cards? I don't disagree about having fun, and I don't think it's overly powerful anyway. Giving another character a card is hilarious though if you can pick something some crazy synergy. Unfortunately digital does not have the exact same ability of getting another character's card. Instead it lets a character go get a card they did not bring with them including ones they did not select at level up instead. This was due to the time it would take to animate every card in the game to potentially every model.

[@funmaker77]

Well that's a little sad, but i meant the medi-pack interaction, that one should potentially work (if the rules allow it obviously) so yeah, but as you said it's probably not that broken, especially because they both are neither very strong by themselves nor synergise particularly well. But it'd be fun still.

[@chaslyndrilling7380]

I think this build shows your greedy side more than most other characters. I dropped hold back the pain a lot earlier in my play through.

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yeah its definitely a greedy keep, but I just cant turn down the big plays you know me :)

[@przykuk003]

BIG SPOILER ALERT: And what about Blade****** character? Are you planning a tutorial for him? Is it even playable in the digital version? maybe there will be such an option in the campaign? Thanks!

[@benocleaf]

He probably hasn't heard of it

[@MandatoryQuest]

That’s a hard no. I’ve commented before I will never do envelope X as it’s supposed to be an Easter egg. Also it’s confirmed as not in Digital.

[@vasileiosvazakas6813]

if you combine hand of the surgeon bottom with creative mixture top, then self and all adjacent allies will be healed. Does this mean that negative conditions would be removed from self and all adjecent allies too? if that's the case, then research the cure would not be necessary for removing conditions?

[@MandatoryQuest]

Yes it would do but the heal happens before the removal meaning poison still blocks your heal, so its only really good at removing immobilise, muddle, stun, or disarm. Research the cure gives your ally permanent immunity to negative conditions. This means they will never need to worry about any at all, and in particular it blocks curse which is a negative condition, but cant be removed/stopped by curative mixture.

[@vasileiosvazakas6813]

@@MandatoryQuest thank you for the quick reply. I guess you dont recommend the combo curative mixture/hand of the surgeon. Why curative mixture cannot remove curse? Right now i play the scoundrel at level 8, and the other two play saw, elementalist and the third will begin with eclipse. Soon, after i am done with Scoundrel i'll get the Saw, my friend will retire saw and get the squid, and the elementalist would stay for a while, So with that composition saw, eclipse, elementalist and squid, when i begin the saw, with no tank present, would you recommend to take precaution instead of vital strike and research the cure or amputate at level 5? or can you offer a different advice?

[@MandatoryQuest]

@@vasileiosvazakas6813 Curative Mixture cant prevent curse because it is not a "status" like other negative conditions. When you are cursed you just shuffle in a miss/curse card and you do not gain a status or token if you are playing physical. You are not permitted to look through your deck to remove curses unless an ability card says otherwise. Curse is still a negative condition but it does work different to other conditions. This why being permanently immune is very strong, and only 1 turn removal/immunity is much weaker. With that composition you will need to use your stuns and disarms a lot, but you will be killing things very very quickly. Saw will have the hardest time as they are the only true melee character as Eclipse is usually invisible. This means Research the Cure is wasted as you cannot use it on yourself. I would invest in a War Hammer for Saw and concentrate on hitting big Hold Back the Pain bottom based attacks on lots of enemies. I don't know what build your Triangles is but hopefully you have level 7 Vengeance and Eternal Equilibrium level 9 with them too. When Squid gets Baneful Hex unlocked then the game will become easy for you with the level 9 Triangles combo.

[@vasileiosvazakas6813]

@@MandatoryQuest thank you again for your assistance. So vital strike mught be worth while. I am not sure if precaution will help with one shield. The reason i want to combine curative mixture with hand of surgeon is to heal all adjacent allies and give them bless as well, which my friend has added to its top. generally would it be better to bless and strengthen my allies or concantrate on myself? The way we play without a tank, we all share damage. The elementalist will open angry face when it is done, so i wonder with our party if it would be better if i don't pick saw, but someone like tinkerer, brute, or cragheart.

[@vasileiosvazakas6813]

@@MandatoryQuest i thought that the plagueherald player would need the research the cure card since this character has very low health and he would be killed quickly, most of the time

[@vasileiosvazakas6813]

To charge the staff Xorn you need inflict damage. Does the instant kill count as a damage?

[@MandatoryQuest]

Instant kill effects do not count as attack or damage abilities technically. I'm not sure if that specific item has been explained in the FAQ though.

[@vasileiosvazakas6813]

@@MandatoryQuest thank you I think you are right, instant kills do not count as damage.

[@VGPorage]

I guess it must either be insta kills straight up don't work even for the seeker or they count as damage since you otherwise could softlock yourself.

[@vasileiosvazakas6813]

I just retired the scoundrel and I ll get saw which one of our team retired. Saw now has the following enhancements: jump on hamstring, jump on first aid, plus one heal and bless on curative mixture and disarm on bloody saw. Now I can disarm targets with prevention is key then disarm again with HBtP. Would you say is it necessary to stun them as well with war hammer. Or it will be best to take long spear instead so to disarm another two targets with bloody saw? Making it a mini HBtP/prevention combo?

[@MandatoryQuest]

Well I think that depends on number of characters and difficulty. 4 characters means a large multi target stun with war hammer could be super clutch, but at 3 and 2 long spear is much more versatile and will often basically do the same job. With difficulty at anything lower than +2 I would say you're probably just winning harder with either option, so just pick your favourite.

[@vasileiosvazakas6813]

@@MandatoryQuest i'll start saw at level 5, she will start plagueherald at level 5, Eclipse is currently at level 4, Elementalist at level 9 and soon to be replaced by Doomstalker. usually we play at monster level 7 but with the new characters it might drop to level 5. The reason i am asking about war hammer it is because now that i have bloody saw with disarm it would be similar to stun, while longspear will add one extra meelee attack and it is reusable while war hammer is one off. Is it true that we should play the stamina potions minus one card recovery?

[@MandatoryQuest]

@@vasileiosvazakas6813 in that case use long spear. Yes I would generally advise using the nerfed stamina potions as it is better balanced and might encourage you to look at different small items too.

[@vasileiosvazakas6813]

@@MandatoryQuest i was thinking to pick up minor stamina potion, eagle eye googles, long spear, and either cloak of invisibilty or Moon earring, with my 90 gold. with the nerfing i might need to pick up the major stamina and drop one of the others

[@MandatoryQuest]

@@vasileiosvazakas6813 moon earring for sure if you are using long spear and goggles. Invisibility cloak is also nice for the risk free jump in and hold back the pain bottom plays.

[@sortehuse]

I don't think that the top of teamwork works on summons - at least not in the physical game

[@MandatoryQuest]

I don't see why not you simply count the number of allies next to you and recover that many cards, and all adjacent allies get to do this. The summons wouldn't get the recover ability of course as they have no cards, but they are still classed as allies so would contribute to the total allies.

[@sortehuse]

@@MandatoryQuest I think you are right about that 👍. I just misunderstood you.

[@MandatoryQuest]

@@sortehuse no worries I love find those rules grey areas to discuss :)

[@Tomwitch32]

What about Jaws of the Lion mercenaries

[@MandatoryQuest]

I will probably do these too. If you watch the outro 😉

[@Waffiesss]

how you use booster shot on yourself? I thought you can't use range heals as self heals

[@MandatoryQuest]

All ranged heals can also self target. It’s only if the card specifies allies only that it can no be used on yourself.

[@pontusvongeijer1240]

Does your boyfriend know you have a youtube channel?

[@MandatoryQuest]

Errrrmmm...yes?