The Right and Wrong Way to Make a Hero

[@Mangakamen]

If you liked the video, please be sure to leave a comment and a like, it really helps the video and channel greatly :)

[@coolrod15thecoolest24]

This is just a idea. You don't have to if you don't want to but can you do a video of why does relatable characters matter?

[@FadedPhoenix]

LOOKIN' COOL JOKER! LOOKIN' COOL JOKER! LOOKIN' COOL JOKER! LOOKIN' COOL JOKER! LOOKIN' COOL JOKER! LOOKIN' COOL JOKER! LOOKIN' COOL JOKER! LOOKIN' COOL JOKER!LOOKIN' COOL JOKER!

[@bachilles3285]

2-for-2 Sonic-baited. God fucking damnit. Real talk, though, and this is related more to the games than the video, I've seen Sonic_Speed state that Ian Flynn writes Sonic as a protagonist who "doesn't see himself as a hero, just a guy who wants to do the right thing." That's not the actual quote or context, but you get the idea. I'm half nitpicking, but I'm mostly typing this so I can say, "I like Sonic and you should, too." (which would be hilarious, since I am responding to a fellow Sonic enjoyer)

[@theyoungfamily8295]

I got an idea for you. A very hard idea. Since their two different games. But you should do Devil May Cry 3 Vs Yakuza 0. Which series had a better prequel. Or was a better game overall. As they're both beloved by fans. Have MANY Great characters to compare. Majima and Dante, Vergil and Kiryu, Lady and Tachibanna, Kuze and Arkham. Etc and etc. What had a better story. Better gameplay. Better Graphics. It's really a hard project since they're two different games. But it would be very fun to analyze.

[@justinfreeman4614]

Looking cooooooll... Joker. LOKI!

[@bluesuzaku3229]

A hero is someone who embodies virtues, a protagonist is someone who gets the attention of the story. They don't have to be the same thing.

[@zaneheaston8254]

True, but if the protagonist shows no redeeming qualities, players are going to hate the character and the game Looks at Hank East from Dead Rising 4

[@corryjamieson3909]

​@@zaneheaston8254 Umm, Dead Rising's version of Donte?

[@Berd-Wasted.]

​@@zaneheaston8254Reminds of the shift of Orginal Varian Leon. With his transformation from RE2 to RE4. Not that it's bad thing mate.

[@mattwo7]

@@zaneheaston8254 Oof, I don't have any intrest in those games but I did find Frank amusing in MvC3. Granted if Tron's oujou laugh is any indicator (I later learned she isn't even remotely as haughty in Mega Man Legends and her spinoff game), MvC doesn't always have the most accurate portrayal of the characters. Makes me wonder where the heck that even came from...

[@GraveEnd]

@@zaneheaston8254 that’s not always the case not every good character had redeeming qualities

[@kruegerpoolthe13th]

I like how you kept Kiryu, Dante and Snake for last The three gaming legends that perfectly combine being goofy and serious

[@garyyyyyy95]

The goofy ahh trio from their ps2 glory

[@suffer3828]

Shout out to goofy protagonists with tragic backstories

[@johnnyibrahim2201]

Kiryu is way too serious but sometimes hes goofy so I wont blame you

[@crimsonartist5190]

​@@johnnyibrahim2201kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4rOZ4h6odCkZtk the seriousness makes it more goofy based on context lol/ minigame sections

[@KunkyStuwart]

@@johnnyibrahim2201 And hes sometimes too serious its goofy; I can't take him seriously when hes in a karaoke bar looking pissed as hell and hes just singing perfectly 😭

[@Blizz3112]

I always liked Yusuke from Yu Yu Hakusho BECAUSE despite being a foul-mouthed ruffian, he clearly has the right heart in the place, ready to punish anyone doing awful stuff to innocent people and people he cares about... sometimes even pushing that to the limit...

[@kylepessell1350]

What's even more interesting is that nobody, not even the spiritual authorities, actually expected much from him. He went from being a nobody who was only given his life back due to clerical error to being one of the most important people in that universe.

[@blackkitty369]

Same

[@moosesues8887]

@@kylepessell1350 broken demon dad carried ngl

[@eternalinnocent9506]

@@moosesues8887 man's stopped eating humans because he got laid once and never wanted to eat a human again

[@tavaedenton3338]

Yusuke be my top nigga for real 🗿🍷

[@MrLlama-rc8nj]

Kiryu is a titan. Cheating death multiple times to protect who he loves, only to disappear from the world for the sake of those same people. An impressive beast of a man who takes on armies in order to find peace for those involved

[@cellophaneoxygen]

kiryu kazuma: the man who sold his name on ebay

[@comradekenobi6908]

​@@cellophaneoxygenI've always wondered what the "man who sold the world" means

[@Eleven217]

The thing about the Yakuza series is that the more entries you play of it, the seemingly more powerful Kyriu is in each iteration. And if you play them one after the other, it connects with the player, cause the player's had most likely learned the combat mechanics almost to its deepest details. So that shot with Kyriu just taking a sip while there's a whole Bar waiting to kick his ass behind him is PERFECTLY immersive. YOU HAVE BEATEN RANDOM THUGS IN THE STREET FOR WHAT'S PROBABLY A WEEK WORTH OF GAME TIME, so a few barkeeps ain't NOTHING.

[@samwill7259]

For me, personally A character whose idealism is so strong, so unbreakable, so uncompromising that it can make a cynical, edgy world physically bend to his will. When his heroism is so hard that nothing can change it and his kindness changes everything

[@absolutelynotgriffith1954]

Shirou Emiya moment

[@GraveEnd]

@@absolutelynotgriffith1954 fr literally lol

[@randomduck8679]

Kind of reminds me of Zack Fair. Throughout Crisis Core, he's getting fed up with characters being a mopey emo while he's trying to do his best to help.

[@yursan9]

Luffy from One Piece is like this. Everyone that meet him will changes for better or for worse.

[@lucky6961]

that can be a bit situational, like in the yakuza games, kiryu is surely influentional to a point that this very power he has is what keeps dragging him back to this crime world trying to make things right, yet he still feels like part of the city, you meet people, hang around, you don't have the freedom of blowing everything up or assaulting people however you can feel as both a badass ex-yakuza storming trough crowds of enemies but also just like any other guy just playing darts on a bar with a friend you met there

[@geminiguy6032]

Im sensing a lack of new heroes that are ACTUAL heroes in this day and age. They dont need to be Vash from Trigun, though I'm fully in support of having more characters like Vash, but just having a character with a good heart who tries their absolute best to help as many people as they can no matter how hopless or pointless it all seems is all it takes for a character to be a true hero in my opinion.

[@SolProxy]

Don't know if you know about it, but if you want someone similar to Vash, try watching/reading Vinland Saga. That has a protagonist who struggles with killing like he does, though only a bit later on in the story.

[@OhCrapI_He]

For some reason, when you mentioned Vash, I thought of Vash from Aurora, the guardian of a city named after him. This city is also home to a lot of refugees from other cities.

[@95onimusha]

so, someone like tanjiro from demon slayer?

[@nimazsheik5152]

@@95onimusha He's probably talking about Western media, which he is right, very few heroes there. Japanese media obviously still has great heroes, Tanjiro is boring but still is a hero.

[@myusername3689]

@@nimazsheik5152 Garou is pretty interesting, especially later in the manga.

[@AdaptArtificer]

One of my favorite protagonists has to be Zero from Mega man. He started out as a killing machine and was reformed into a hero. Then he started questioning what he even fought for but he pushed through. He lost everyone he loved but he was able to overcome his denial of him being a hero and saved the Earth.

[@marcosdheleno]

my one disagreement is that, he doesnt really does it out of his own will. his change is kinda forced upon him as his programing is "destroyed". the games also never really allow him to really develop and grow, at most its just him looking for answers but never really getting anything.

[@omegazer0800]

Based

[@Axl4325]

Zero is honestly still in my top ten after all this years. He was already amazing in the X games but in his own games he really showed why he is, even if he claims the contrary, a hero

[@hafirenggayuda]

​@@marcosdhelenoI do think his final conversation in MMZ4 summarize (and ending) his whole arc of reason to fight. To summarized, he fight for those who he believe and who believe in him too.

[@zambino229]

My favorite video game protag is probably Vincent from Catherine. A flawed man struggling a cracking under the stress his habits had put him under. I like the multiple endings so much because every option feels like something he would do. No options are good or evil just the path you decide for him to lead.

[@PALWolfOS]

The important thing each ending shares is Vincent finally stops waffling about what he wants and actually decides with full sincerity to *do* something, and it makes him stronger for it whether it backfires on him or not

[@anthrothle768]

Arthur Morgan is the best protagonist

[@orangeslash1667]

@@PALWolfOS Fun Fact: Catherine was made because Altus needed experience with HD graphics before making Persona 5.

[@RVered]

One of the consistencies of the Yakuza franchise is the characters. Even if you don't like the story, gameplay, look, etc., of a particular game, you still get attached to the characters. they are always consistent and develop organically and relatably; if a character changes, like Majima during Yakuza 0, it's well thought-out and executed.

[@GuardianStriker]

I swear, Chai has the personality of Goku from DBZ: Abridged. Which is as you said, comedic, yet dependable...and I love it.

[@BloodyEclipse756]

To be honest my favorite protagonist is Dante the OG one. He's a goofball on the outside but in the inside he is the Son of Sparda. Willing to protect the people he cares about while still maintaining his smile is something that to me I'm inspired from him. I played Devil May Cry 3 and some if the cutscenes I remembered to this day. One day I'll try to get the platinum trophy on the series till I'm motivated enough, but until then I'm going to rock out cause this place is going crazy. Also Looking Cool Joker!

[@BlackPlatinum]

Lol don't let Vergil hear you don't have motivation 😂

[@OffTheRailGaming]

I love when I randomly stumble upon videos involving Yakuza. Always makes my day better.

[@romanmajima]

fr

[@mattwo7]

7:32 I figured that one out with the Academy Awards. I think it's pretty telling that some Oscar winners also received Razzies. Also I learned that the animation category existed just so Disney could win some Oscars and later noticed a trend of them hating claymation and foreign animation that wasn't Ghibli films distributed by Disney but being easily impressed by rendered 3D. I also learned about the concept of "Oscar bait" which was usually artsy BSery with no deeper meaning to it and big name actors.

[@spiderhey1535]

Tatsuya suou from persona 2 is the definition of an amazing protagonist (one reason being is he's actually human)

[@anngoro1119]

Finally! I found the Tatsuya comment. Love him (plus, he's the bisexual icon)

[@msf2000]

Someone else who remembers persona 2 exists

[@seijuroakashi9178]

Vindication

[@LeoJohnGalt]

VROOOM VROOM

[@The_B_Button]

@@anngoro1119 Shame that the "bisexuality" is only there to appeal to straight people who fetishize LGBT relationships.

[@AllBeganwithBBS]

Talking about protagonists has me thinking back to Spec Ops: The Line. You never really have a choice in that story, but as it turns out, the illusion of it does a good enough job for most.

[@MachineMan-mj4gj]

I thought the Doomslayer was a pretty good silent protagonist. Even though he doesn’t talk, he still has a personality, goofing with toys and shaking in rage at the UAC’s actions.

[@calsalitra4689]

Similar deal with the Stranger in Furi. He never says a word but you can get an idea of what he thinks from his actions. There's enough to define what kind of character he has, but ambiguous enough that his motivations at the end still make sense regardless of which choice you pick.

[@aryabratsahoo7474]

What about Gordon Freeman tho? All I feel is that he mostly tries to survive in 1 and follows orders in 2. There's probably some human feeling of him during the ending of Half Life Alyx.

[@MachineMan-mj4gj]

@@aryabratsahoo7474 Freeman's personality is whatever you want to project onto him. Doomslayer has a personality and does things outside the player's control.

[@cloudynguyen6527]

@@aryabratsahoo7474 Adding to MachineMan comment, all characters around Freeman always cheer for him and support him, treating him like their hero. So while he doesn't have personality, the world building and interaction convinces you to believe Freeman is the hero of the story.

[@lucky6961]

I think that being a silent protagonsit is pretty limiting depeding of the context of the game, someone on the line of Doom does't care, you're on hell to blast demons, fuck'em up but for a game like dishonored they changed their originally silent character(corvo) into a fully rounded character, you feel a little bit less like you playing and starting seeing you playing as corvo, it's a game that really cares about morality so having dialogue lines helps even if it worked for the first game the second just wouldn't work, specially with two playable protagonists

[@iranoutofideasforausernam1703]

Lookin' cool, Joker! I'm personally fond of Zero from the Megaman games, especially the Megaman Zero games."I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero... I have always only fought for the people I believe in. I won't hesitate... If an enemy appears in front of me, I will destroy it."

[@NerfMaster000]

I am not sure if your username is a pun based on your profile pic.

[@iranoutofideasforausernam1703]

@@NerfMaster000 I came up with the username first due to exactly the dilemma the username entails-- and then running out of available characters, then someone called me Ran, so now all my profile pictures are Yakumo Ran.

[@shonenbois]

My favorite types of Protagonists are the definitely the characters who seem like Jerks(Yusuke from Yu Yu Hakusho and Leorio from Hunter X Hunter) but are total softies

[@Chaosflower]

Like Jotaro

[@AshXXMayftw]

I haven't watched the video yet, but as someone who loves to write and create new characters, I have my own way of doing it. I start by asking "what will their role be within the story and the world it's set in", and once that's finished I write out a character sheet detailing their name, age, height, build, interests, hobbies, likes, dislikes, and a backstory summary. After that, I start formulating what they'll look like, which is determined by their personality and quirks. I also like to throw in some small bits of storytelling related to their backstory, whether it be pieces of clothing, decorations, or wounds/scars they sustained in the past.

[@PixelHeroViish]

The sad part about TLOU 2 is that the stories should've been entirely separate, Abby is never affected by guilt or struggling feelings after having killed Joel who went out of his way to save her just prior. Her story is almost exclusively about that Seraphite thing and her friends getting eviscerated means effectively nothing to her. Why should the player care about these characters if the one you're playing as can barely be bothered to care either? She even DOES become more likeable near the climax of her part because she basically turns into Joel, something that only matters to the player and only because "Oh hey I know this", she never once stops to think if the man she murdered might've been going through something similar to her Then the story forces some bullshit confrontation with Faction 3 who literally haven't existed until now, don't matter within the segment they're introduced in, then are cast aside for the actual finale where the two "Protagonists" duke it out without the player getting to choose if they wanna pursue revenge at all, then won't even let you choose who to play as or IF you even wanna go through with the act. Instead Ellie remembers Joel completely unprompted and just stops fighting, something that just as easily could've happened before the fight or even other points in the story, ironically breaking the story if that did happen

[@UnifiedEntity]

"Abby is never affected by guilt" was all I needed to read to agree. And it's fucking mind boggling that people think Abby is a good character let alone one worthy of sympathy or empathy.

[@PixelHeroViish]

@@UnifiedEntity The bits and pieces are there, but the way it was handled just completely ruined everything

[@UnifiedEntity]

@@PixelHeroViish I saw no bits and pieces. Aside from Joel killing her dad but again, she never even asked why.

[@PixelHeroViish]

@@UnifiedEntity Yeah lol, I was referring to her relationship with Lev specifically, it felt like Abby was (more specifically finally turned into) an actual person Can't even blame you for not seeing that though cuz by God is the whole "war" thingy or whatever boring

[@silentecho92able]

@@UnifiedEntity Also im surprised then when Tommy and Elle went after her and her people. She should have had a scene with her explaining to Lev who are the people chasing her and what she has done. An have Lev chew her out saying something like "dude this is your fault your quest for revenge against one guy, ended up biting you in the ass in return and the price for all of this is the death of your friends". An Abby only at this point realizes her foolish mistake the killing one guy, only perpetuated the cycle of revenge but this time the people she cares about will pay the price one by one for her actions.

[@thatitalianlameguy2235]

Sonic was one of the best protagonists, and he's finally going back to his old considerate self, that wants to live his life to the fullest but will take time off his own for people he cares about to help them grow.

[@SamTheGumMan117]

I was stoked to see the MGS 3 remake with the PS showcase gonna be so fun to play again and Dante will always be such a bro to follow and play with

[@GreenWolf2k]

Glad you're happy but uhhhh I'm tired of all these remakes and people who buy them. We are funding laziness. No new ideas just remake old ones that we know people buy out of nostalgia.

[@SamTheGumMan117]

@greenwolf2k594 Well, you should probably complain to the gaming studios/companies, then not me lol

[@GreenWolf2k]

@SamTheGumMan 117 No it's also the gamers fault. It's the same problem with the sports games that never change yeah after year. The consumers keep buying it so why would game developers stop making them.

[@marcosdheleno]

unless we talking about reboot dante, but i guess its only fair to call him by his actual name: Dino: Dante in name only...

[@panzershreck8077]

​@greenwolf2k594 im glad someone gets it. These remakes are the biggest cash grabs ever. For example re4R, why did this game need to be remade when the original is already a masterpiece in every way possible AND is playable on every single modern gaming console. Simply just a cash grab. A remake like re2 was good tho cus majority of us dont have access to a game like that anymore. Mgs3 can easily be ported over to ps4 from ps3 or given a remaster treatment without changing any gameplay but we all know why theyre "remaking' this game lol. People also forget to realise that the publishing studio releasing this game is the company who makes pachinko games and metal gear survive lmfaoo. I fucking hate consumers man sorry for the rant

[@videogamerzero1schannel]

Ah yes the hero/protagonist aka probably the most important thing for a story because if it fails it might kill your interest for where it goes and for what I like in a hero is them starting to be unlikable only to change for the better such as Neku Sakuraba from The World Ends With You, Luke Fon Fabre from Tales of the Abyss and Haseo from Dot Hack GU being my examples as I love their writing where they feel human because even when we don't see it, we do change and that's what these main characters do to replicate people changing especially when it's more noticeable in a fictional setting

[@medecko4394]

Exactly. I like how you tagged Neku as an example since not MANY people talk about TWEWY or him in general.

[@videogamerzero1schannel]

@@medecko4394 it's why I mentioned him since people don't talk about the series that I aim to fix that even if Square tries to forget it again but I certainly won't

[@fenrirsrage4609]

The extra funny thing about the whole TLOU2 war was that the TLOU2 defenders pretty much just brought in outsiders into the war. I remember when Uzaki was thrown into the mix and westerners just posted gory hate art of Abby killing Uzaki because nothing makes your arguement look good but with gory hate art. And also making outsiders and the Japanese think Westerners are fucking nuts.

[@John-Stark]

I just love how the response was Japanizing Abbie, who actually looks hot in an anime art style

[@marcosdheleno]

my biggest problem with TLOU2 is that the whole theme, is something that has been done before better, its the whole "revenge doesnt pay", except, in the game it doesnt because the revenge never really is alowed to happen. the characters are never really given time to regret, beyond "oh chucks, if only i didnt kill that guy, everyone i love would still be alive", and then "oh no, if only i didnt massacre that entire group, my bu would still be in my bed!" its children lesson done for "man childs"(as in adults with the mental capacity of children, not literal men).

[@wzx6x6z6w]

@@marcosdheleno If you take a look at Fire Punch, drawn by Tatsuki Fujimoto (Chainsaw Man's author), it's basically a post-apocalyptic story hundred times better than TLOU2 that tells you how much can revenge fuck up someone both physically and mentally, and how much emptiness and pain would one still suffer even after they have accomplished their quest of vengeance. I can't stress enough how good that manga is. It made Neil Cuckmann's story looking like children's book in comparison.

[@marcosdheleno]

@@wzx6x6z6w i dont disagree. and im one of those people who couldnt stand either fire punch nor CSM.

[@LordThatch]

It’s still crazy to me that people hate Uzaki, she’s just goofy

[@mattwo7]

Speaking of silent protagonists and how Ren is more of his own character than the previous Persona protaganists, before BotW, Toon Link was the only incarnation of Link I cared much for. That was simply because of how much more expressive he is (granted, I have yet to play Skyward Sword and that version also seems to be more expressive). It's a good example of how a silent protagonist can become much more of a proper character when you give them the ability to properly react to various things, even things as simple as trying to warm themself up in the cold while shivering and you can see their breath.

[@DatadyneExecutive]

*Akira kind of is yeah but the illusion of choice i don't care for

[@mattwo7]

@@DatadyneExecutive I don't really care if you call him that but you really shouldn't correct people when they use his canon name. It makes you look desperate. I swear, no one ever pulled this shit with Yu and don't act like it's different just because the P4 manga came later.

[@Stryfe52]

@@mattwo7Akira just sounds cooler… Like, Makoto Yuuki or Minato? MAKOTO!!

[@Stryfe52]

I don’t mind the illusion of choice, since I tend to see him as more if his own character whose choices I can influence. Your choices decide who Rem/Akira is, but that doesn’t mean you can choose for him to be something he’s not

[@soldierofkazus]

@@Stryfe52 Nah "Akira Kurusu" sounds like a dumb edgelord name. It's Ren.

[@soulkeeperaj2005]

Honestly, Kaito from Zenkaiger and Sora from Kingdom Hearts are my favorite protagonists.

[@leithaziz2716]

Sora weirdly stands out more nowadays because of how a decent portion of protagonists are written in a way that risks making them unlikable with a lot of baggage. On the other hand, when you have someone like Sora who's as endearingly honest as the face he puts up, it's oddly refreshing.

[@Ijustusethistocommentstuff]

I'm guessing Zenkaiger is Super Sentai. I need to at least watch one of those series, just for posterity's sake, and I really want to watch Gokaiger (the one Super Megaforce is based on), but no service has it, and I don't trust anything that doesn't have a wikipedia page.

[@PixelHeroViish]

​@@leithaziz2716 Since DDD they kind of gave Sora an extra dose of optimism and childlike wonder that makes him seem pretty stupid in places, but is just SO sincere that you can't hate him, at least that's how I see it. I'd rather take him over someone as badly written as Frey

[@chiefbawor_thegr8966]

Kaito from Zenkaiger is fun because he is a bundle of optimism but he also knows when to take risk. Like how when he wanted to save his father but also preparrs for the worse and ask Zox (a world travelling pirate) to send his father that has become Mechagodzilla but worse to the farthest point of some unknown universr just so he wouldn't destroy anything anymore.

[@JohnWick-rh1zz]

@@Ijustusethistocommentstuff just pirate it, toei hates their own fans

[@totalzeldafan2169]

After Nero was told that the man they need to kill is his father, I saw LA Knight and genuinely thought for a second you were just gonna have the clip of him shouting "YEAH!" three times like it was a celebration for Nero that they had to kill him

[@-S.a.k.]

I'd like to add on Dantes VA Ruben Langdon was also in the Japanese Toho series Of B-Metal Fighter (Beetleborgs:Metallix) as the Dragonfly Metal Fighter. He was fluent in Japanese, but weirdly the producers dubbed over his voice lines lol So yeah all the members of the Sparda Fam were henshin a go go babies, Daniel (Vergil) was Eric in Time Force as the edgy Red ranger with a gunblade and Johnny (Nero) was Adam in MMPR and Zeo of course.

[@holloworacle3140]

Dante the best protag and best character

[@TheTrueJ836]

Let's go, another 30+ minute essay. Can't wait for your next video.

[@Inhaledcorn]

One of my favorite protagonists is Bartz Klauser from FFV. He's probably the least serious (or most serious about being not serious?) protagonist of the Final Fantasy franchise. It's just great seeing him bounce off of the other characters in Final Fantasy in Dissidia because, while he's a bit of a goofball, he's got this hidden, worldly wisdom about him. He comes across as carefree, but I think he really cares deeply about things. He's just learned to not worry about the things he can't control and live life one day at a time.

[@marcosdheleno]

what about tidus and zidane? they are both bon vivants, who enjoy life as they can, trying to always be nonchalant about things. sure, tidus whole persona is a fake mask he puts in front of others in order to hide his daddy issues, and zidane is all about getting laid, as a way to cope for his non existant past. but i would bet both are very "not serious" protagonists...

[@La-hora-del-terror]

​@@marcosdheleno Tidus care about everything that has to be with his Dad, Yuna and his friends. Zidane cares about his gang, Garnet, his past and Kuja. So i think Bartz is the real free bird of the franchise.

[@lukescrew1981]

Jonathan Joestar is prime example of a somewhat static protagonist

[@Spyno41]

I'd say Josuke is another static protag, but that doesn't change him from being a great character. He has learned already the value of life and he's still the same goober by the end.

[@lukayaroslav9914]

@@Spyno41 I think Giorno applies too here. He changed his environment, not vice versa.

[@masterplanner2364]

Sonic will always be my favorite hero. His optimism, the way he laughs at the face of danger, it never fails for me. And like with Dante; he’s fun and entertaining too!

[@Ineedgames]

You and I have the exact same thoughts on Abby. The story could have made her way more sympathetic if she showed regret for her actions.

[@marcosdheleno]

the problem is, the game is made to tell a cliche "revenge doesnt pay" story. except, no character is ever allowed to actually naturaly get there. if anything, TLOU2 is one of the worst executions of that type of story. specially because, in the end, neither character really end up playing for it aside from no longer getting laid for a day with their new bu(or temporarily being unable to play the guitar due to the lack of certain fingers). as a side note, she does know that she could just relearn hot to play it, right?

[@Ineedgames]

@@marcosdheleno They should have have Ellie kill Abby. That ending would have more impact. She got her revenge, but at what cost. Not I didn't get my revenge and still lost my fingers.

[@cooper2211]

What is funny that pokes a big hole into Anby's plot, how do you know that the Joel she killed is the right person, Joel isn't exactly a uncommon name

[@orangeslash1667]

@@Ineedgames Dark Fact: the employee's were under crunch time to make this game, it was so bad some of the developers allegedly hoped that Part II would fail and prove that the working conditions were not viable.

[@midori_the_eldritch]

You can write a story about someone who isn't flexible, and make it work if the world agnoliges it, also in every writing and English class i ever took protagonist and hero were not treated as synonymous, but i do remember being told it was a commom misconception in one of them. A protagonist is who we follow, and a hero is a roll in a story. Not all stories have a hero, sometimes because they are just dark, and sometimes because they aren't needed, like in more lighthearted and slice of life stories. I have read stories where we are explicitly following a villian protagonist.

[@PsypherWolf]

Take Wave from Akame Ga Kill, by all accounts he's a hero, he has all the characteristics and background of one; and yet he's not the protagonist. The protagonists are actually anti-heroes, they outright say "what we do is murder, there's no justice behind that".

[@AivarSablinski4705]

Hm, interesting :o

[@Stryfe52]

Every time I hear Raiden’s earlier voice, I always appreciate, and am yet still surprised by the difference between then and Revengeance. The change in his speech patterns and voice really sell the change in Raiden’s character. Maybe I’m just too used to voice actors sounding like the same character all the time.

[@DisastrousIntentionally]

John Marston from Red Dead Redemption is one of my absolute favourite video game protagonists. He is such a complete character that goes through one hell of an arc to save his family, only for the story to end tragically.

[@trynox0]

Looking cool Joker! Please, I really need more Persona in my life and I was absolutely amazed by what you did with you Kanji/Naoto video

[@dejinnthedjinn5311]

I just started the video and I'm glad to see some Hi-Fi Rush! I hope Kamen does a video on the game. Also, for a monster collecting RPG with a more talkative protagonist, try Cassette Beasts. I believe that game has a protagonist with a more defined personality.

[@Jose_Ruiz932]

1:08 I think he’s talking about SMT, where some of the demons you recruit are literal gods

[@Yan_Alkovic]

7:09 Fucking brilliant notes from the editor!

[@Mangakamen]

yeah

[@dragonlord4194]

I haven't seen it anywhere, so here is my favorite protagonist: Geralt of Rivia I don't know if you excluded him, because he came from a book series, but for me he is one of the best written characters in general. Fitting dark and serious for the setting of the Witcher series, but still with his funny moments in his dry humor. And depending on how you choose he can either be a cold asshole only in for the money or a headstrong but more caring man, who is more human than most of the actual humans in that world

[@xdskiller3509]

Minecraft steve is the best protagonist

[@matthewharner1744]

Being hot isn't a personality trait

[@zaneheaston8254]

Argh, sarcasm

[@mattwo7]

32:00-32:09 Huh, Deadpool and Dante have more in common than I realized.

[@medecko4394]

Not a single person has brung up Pit. Pit is basically the goofball Badass. However, despite that, his personality has been seen numerous times in Uprising. He is kind, nice, a show-off and a guy who is loyal to Palutena despite his secret desire to be a Lone-wolf. Despite not being able to fly on his own, his will is strong. And despite his goofy input, he's strong than he seems.

[@misterzygarde6431]

Joker, Yu, Chai, Dante, Nero, and Raiden are straight up husbando material to me. Aside from that, I'd like to bring up Peppino as of late. He has an understandable motive in that he wants to save his struggling restaurant from being blown up and given the stuff he encounters, he has an understandable reaction to the third phase of the last battle employing a divisive trope in games and it's satisfying to see.

[@themugman3583]

I honestly would have loved if you talked about Sol Badguy from Guilty Gear since he's one of my favorite video game characters but I wouldn't blame you for not talking about him, Guilty Gear can be confusing as hell.

[@marcosdheleno]

that's the main problem. guilty gear is just too convoluted for anyone who isnt really into the lore to grasp.

[@Fixer_Su3ana]

Abbey wants the consideration and mercy from Ellie, that she refused to give to Joel. I would give her Optimus Prime's speech to Megatron in the 1990's movie.

[@Bronte4281]

You forget that abby spared Ellie and Dina after they killed all of her friends. (Yeah she spared them only thanks to Lev but still)

[@mattwo7]

14:25 And if you want an entertaining psychopath protagonist, there's always Tanya von Degurechaff who as it so happens, is a blonde (albeit with blue eyes while Kira's are... Purple?! (They seem to be blue in the anime at least)) who _also_ wants to live a quiet life (and I am definitely not the only one who noticed the similarity).

[@malfolin]

When you pronounce Donte (the one from DmC: Devil may Cry), I just see in my head that videos "El Donté Experience".

[@someguycalledgoober155]

lOoKiNg GoOd JoKeR. I feel like silent protags should have a video of their own.

[@jameshibberd5134]

The funnier part about Donte is that in this years GCSE AQA Spanish Listening/ Writing exam, they literally had the name Dante in a question. Its really him, El Dónté, el Exterminador de Demonios. Most of my favourite games dont really centre around a protagonist, but a core 4 characters. But my favourite protagonist is hands down Dante. I honestly think theres just as much to discuss if not more when it comes to core groups of four. Its just as the Guide of Cagliostro implies and Bain interprets, you should always operate in groups of specifically four.

[@bigtacotime4382]

"giant demon in the shape of a god" no, the demon cult was praying to his dad. that was in the shape of sparda, that's why they needed sparda blood and the sparda sword... but yeah i guess he is a god from the cult's point of view also.... we need more people talking about yakuza 3 and 4 kiryu because big strong stoic stonefaced closed off tough guy becoming perfect dorky dad to orphan(s) is the best trope. ichiban from y7 is also so damn good and likable and huggable.

[@jurtheorc8117]

In regards to that second paragraph in your comment: May i present to you Clash: Artifacts of Chaos. Main character Pseudo's not as big on the dorky side of things, but he's still got a sense of humor about him.

[@Fabriciod_Crv]

MangaKamen doesn't talk about Yakuza 0 when using an example from this series challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

[@marcosdheleno]

to this day, the best representation of a silent protagonist in ANY game has to be Crono from chrono trigger. the game not only gives every party member personalities and flaws, as well as character development, but for crono, the game allows US the players to mold it as we see fit, based on our decision. many times during the game you will be asked about things, and while there's no real repercussion in the game, it is there to give us the chance to make him as we want him to be.

[@zaneheaston8254]

I don’t know why, but it seems like the game industry has trouble writing good female characters, some bad examples include Abby from The Last of Us Part 2, Chloe from Life is Strange, & Samus from Metroid Other M ONLY

[@bcd32dok36]

Because they put them being female at the forefront of their character instead just making them a good character.

[@Psychopatrick88]

When I think of good female characters, I think of (in no order): Bayonetta Just about every female character in the Ace Attorney series (almost. There's a few outliers. But they are few.) Madeline from Celeste (I'm aware what the developer has claimed about them. For the sake of this argument alone, I'm including this character) Clementine from Walking Dead Maxine Caulfield from Life is Strange Lady from Devil May Cry 3 Nico from Devil May Cry 5 Every character in Hades (May be an unpopular inclusion, but I liked) Sadie Adler from RDR2 Every character in FF7 (just about) I know there's a much bigger list, but it's 2:30 in the morning and my tank is running dry. Someone help a guy out with this list.

[@seraph_dalgon_9216]

You lot have either not played enough games or you’re full of shit for that statement is nowhere near true.

[@Stryfe52]

Other M as in Moo, like a cow? *MOOOO!!!!!* 🐮

[@RuiRuichi]

Which is odd since Naughty Dog has already good ones namely Elena Fisher, Chloe Frazer from Uncharted and Ashelin from Jak and Daxter.

[@foreveraweeb3514]

I'm not sure if it'll be exactly your kind of show but I recommend person of interest. It did have a iffy time with seasons 4 and especially 5 was a bit erratic but it I think is one of the best shows ever. Glad I brought the boxset recently after i saw it back on TV a few months ago

[@that_dude_over_there]

I don’t know how I feel about silent protagonists. On one hand not having a voice strips a lot of the character away forcing the viewer to infer the character from their actions. On the other hand, without silent protagonists, we wouldn’t get the iconic “Lookin’ cool Joker” from Mona

[@redninja3056]

I don't I like silent protagonist because you see more of the character through actions not words

[@that_dude_over_there]

@@redninja3056 “I don’t, I”. No but in all seriousness I agree with your point. I just argue that the intent is lost with silence. For example, characters that appear nice and do good things but have ulterior motives.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@that_dude_over_there The reason they do this is because the devs want the player to pretend that they are the protagonist, to immerse the player into the world.

[@realkingofantarctica]

The protagonist doesn't need to be an outstanding person, but just a really freaking cool role model for pre-teen you. Style, confidence and badass-ery make a satisfying hero.

[@frostace8057]

One of my favorite protagonists has to be Neku from the world ends with you. You actually get to see his growth over three weeks

[@silverscorpio24]

That She-Hulk shade though 😉

[@Barakon]

0:35 I wanna clobber Chloe for shooting Pompidou! That poor boi didn’t deserve that!

[@sugarfreejelly5577]

I'd like to add Brad Armstrong from LISA: The Painful into this list as he's literally my favorite protagonist of all time even if he's not a hero; just a dad trying to find his daughter

[@amirgarcia547]

What makes a protagonist/hero work is not only having someone you can relate to, but root for and get behind their goals. And if not, then at least have what they do be interesting and see where it ends up taking them, like with Light Yagami. Since despite technically being the protagonist, he’s an anti-hero at best and a straight-up villain at worst, and yet seeing him get away with these crimes and wondering how he’ll manage to evade L and the police is what makes him so fascinating to follow. I usually tend to prefer protagonists who’re flawed or standoff-ish but either have noble aspirations or sympathetic backgrounds to understand where they’re coming from, like Edelgard, Dimitri and Clade from FE Three Houses, Joel from The Last of Us, Johnny from Jojo part 7, Cloud from FF7 and Kratos from the modern GoW games. Though I can also like the happy-go-lucky protagonists who just want to protect their friends and make a positive difference in the world too, like Sora from Kingdom Hearts, Rex from Xenoblade 2 or Sonic from…well, the Sonic series. For me, the only way a protagonist is failed is if you either can’t understand their motivations, or if they’re both unlikable *and* uninteresting. Since the worst thing is to have a boring character you hate, and both of these aspects describe Abby from TLOU2 for me. She could’ve been an interesting character in concept, being the living embodiment of Joel’s actions come back to haunt him *and* a mirrored reflection of Ellie to show how much she’s changed as well. However, not only does the story bend over backwards to get you to sympathize with you, as you said, but she feels less like a character organically woven into the narrative and more like a plot device that the game suddenly decides to focus on, and as a result add plenty of padded and boring filler. I’ve always said and still do to this day that Abby could’ve worked way better if we saw her side of the story first, have it end with her killing Joel and *then* have Ellie hunt her for the rest of the game, leaving the player to decide who’s more justified. But by shoving her in the player’s face just to pull a lame bait-and-switch, it creates both terrible pacing, a very awkward story structure and a character with a good idea behind them, but a terrible concept due to how poorly implemented they are in the overall narrative. But hey, this game got tons of awards and even game of the year despite having some of the worst writing I’ve seen in a modern triple-A game, so what do I know?

[@legendaryfailure]

I LOVE HI-FI RUSH!!!!!!!!!!!

[@kindasomeviews]

@MangaKamen yo man, auto-like for that Twilight of Spirits callback. I thought all of man forgot about that game, and im glad you're one of the few didnt. That game deserves so much more praise for it's narrative (and more importantly, DARC)

[@sanda5226]

looking cool, MangaKamen

[@volter0]

One protagonist i really like is Cynte from Endoparasitic. He's not a good person at all, he's selfish and very narcissistic, but the thing that makes you like him is how tough he is. The very first thing that happens in the game, is when Cynte's legs and arm get ripped off by parasitic monsters. After that Cynte immediately cauterizes his wounds and strives to survive. He moves and fights with the one arm he still has, during the game. He's someone who you shouldn't like, but because how tough and determined he is, you can't help but like him.

[@waterking74]

Chai maybe a wannabe rockstar but damn is he a good crouching moron hidden badass

[@AnimationFanboy2k4]

Kratos (God of War) Niko Bellic (GTA IV) Ezio de Autore (Assassin's Creed) Red (Angry Birds) Peashooter (Plants vs Zombies) Lara Croft (Lara Croft), Lee (The Walking Dead), Kirby (Kirby) Sonic (Sonic) Cuphead (Cuphead) Link (The Legend of Zelda) Mario (Super Mario)

[@romanmajima]

the thing about the yakuza franchise that makes people get into the games and love it in every details are the substories, and the characters for how their developed, but most importantly is the spin off, they cought my eyes for how splendid they are!! judgment, a story about the son of a detective who's investigating into the father's death getting involved into fights and.. my favorite kurohyou, the story of a guy who fought in the streets gathering money to survive, gets involved into a yakuza and accidentally kills him, while another yakuza capture him and forces him to win 10 fight against the strongest street fighters out there. I think kurohyou is a really good game that connects into the yakuza serie perfectly including details from the first yakuza games using the substories. for example a character that has a strong role in both yakuza and kurohyou is the florist I love how tatsuya met fake kiryu randomly just like kiryu did! I just love this detail!!!!

[@justincase4063]

I kinda wished you talked Ammy from Okami, since she's a silent protag and usually adapts to the other characters and events happening around her.

[@TheTolnoc]

It's really understated and poorly understood how bad ass the last moments of Vergil 3 in DMC 3 are. Vergil cut Dante's hand no because it would help him win, but so that it would *interrupt the hands nervous system so that he couldn't close his hand*. He went so far as to inflict an otherwise pointless injury because it spared him the pity.

[@LeaderPenguin]

Thank goodness I don’t have to pause one of your videos to go play an entire game (yes the last video that focused on Persona 4, I stopped the video went and played the game and went back to the video. By the way P4 > P5 IMO for personal reasons)

[@melonbutters3568]

I was serious when I read the tittle and thumbnail, but after the explanation, I now understand what he meant, so great analysis and thanks for pointing what I was missing.

[@Vaennylla]

I'm so glad you mentioned Arc the Lad when talking about TLOU2. Changing characters was so fluid for the plot compared to abby and ellie's random timeline swapping.

[@RaylinKHD]

I'm not gonna lie. I thought in the last of us 2 section you were talking about Metal Gear Rising and almost shat myself

[@kamo7293]

dante: Nero you can't kill him, he's your father snake: yeah so...

[@Neo-925]

Red needs to be in the silent protagonist video

[@4ainik4aevarov50]

When silent protagonists were brought up in Persona segment, I immediately remembered Ryley Robinson from Subnautica. He works amazing as a silent protagonist because Subnautica isn't a story about specific person, it's a story about planet, on which game takes place. He may be not the best main character (Heck, there is much information about him as a person ). But still, he works amazing for the game. Game is super immersive because of Ryley being silent. So, with right conditions character with little to no personality can be the best for the story

[@Coomamon_Memes]

One of my favorite "unlikable" protagonists is desert punk from the anime of the same name. Hes the most depraved, selfish, awful, scummy, rotten and terrible individual but the way its written as comic relief and the dog eat dog post-apocalyptic setting combined with a handful of moments that you might think shows a decent person buried somewhere inside makes you kind of like him. Hes literally so bad its good. **spoilers** They do that so well that when later in the series when a cast of people have joined him and seemingly changed him for the better it comes as a momentary jarring shock to see him become the main villain and betray everyone. Only momentarily though since its completely in character for him to fake turning a new leaf to gain the trust of people he plans to betray. Many shows do the same thing and fall flat because it feels out of character or out of left field but this character is that much of a punk and the viewer was never fully in on his schemes even as you watch him set them up so the left field aproach works this time. Overall its a hilariously raunchy action adventure comedy. If you havent seen it then i highly recommend it if you like that edgy, immature and not so pc early 2000s humor and high flying action.

[@bahesb2419]

I think out of all the heroes I know, Raiden is the ideal hero for me: He‘s caring, a justice driven cyborg ready to protect the innocents but also knows some people need to die and ready to kill for justice. He is also a good combination of both funny and badass hero.

[@EduardoOliveira-qy1km]

I actually like when games give you the illusion of choice but then force you to choose hard decisions or make your actions have logical consequences you didn't expect Undertale is the best example I can think of

[@minecraftsteve73]

Had to rewatch the beginning of the Last of Us 2 section cause I was too busy jamming out to Revengeance!

[@HenshinFanatic]

"Looking cool, Joker"

[@rga1605]

I wonder what you'd think of Phos, from Houseki no Kuni, because I never saw a character change so much in the span of an entire series. He started like a standard wide-eyed shonen hero, then...things happened to him and he made the hero-villain gauge turn on itself many, many times.

[@bravestant3921]

Yeah, I actually got into the series because I heard Phos was similar to Eren, and I wanted a series that had a similar arc to him without the “questionable” ending.

[@darkjammin79]

Looking cool Joker! I've become less and less of a fan towards silent protagonists, hearing over and over 'easier to self insert'. Worn down from that where there have been some that haven't said a thing(Of their own accord) but are characterized throughout the game(s). In my eyes, dialogue is one of some ways to express character. Looking forward to your picks

[@midgerm]

i duno, everyone is just....who they are. to be "the villan" or "the hero" rewquire a few things the hero does usually the opposite of the villan, thats usually a given. for most sterotypes at least a hero though, in my eyes is somone who is willing to endure not just physical pain by emotional pain in order for others to not have to: self sacrifice and all that if you have to chose between saving the life of your loved one and saving lots of others, an example here is spider man from the newer generation of video game: spider man has the chance to save his aunts life with the cure to the sickness ravaging the city - but if he does, countless other civilians will die - but if they give the cure time to be replicated, aunt may will die: spiderman has already fought to keep the peace and generally put the wellbeing of others and such before his own - and here he is, faced with the last parental figure he has left, and he has to chose between his own heartache and loss and others....he cant bring himself to chose his own happiness and wants before others a good quote that explains what a villan vs hero sterotype is goes as thus: a hero will sacrifice you to save the world. a villain will sacrifice the world to save you its about being willing to self sacrifice, even the ones you love, for the greater good and a hero? a hero is fine with being labled as a villain for the greater good

[@patricklodge1576]

Aiden pearce was such a good protagonist in watch dogs. Excelent character

[@mattwo7]

39:21 I mean Big Boss technically still was genetically his dad even if he is a clone.

[@Monhamd1000]

Appreciate your Kiryu placement with Dante!

[@redwarriorstudios6077]

I always loved Eddie Riggs (Jack Black) from Brutal Legend as my favorite hero/protagonist and that’s due to his charm, attitude and resourcefulness. Yes he is a Gary Stu but guess what, he isn’t a Frey either. He’s isn’t some criminal that can’t multitask, in fact he dies from saving someone’s life. (Ironically from the worst metal band of all time) When he gets isekai to this world of heavy metal he doesn’t want to leave. What follows is an awesome adventure. There is a lot of passion put into this game. It’s not only gonna blow your mind, it’s gonna blow your soul.

[@mr-anfosh827]

kiryu in yakuza 3 is best kiryu by far he really shows his emotional side in that game

[@sundalosketch4769]

Damn this video hit the spot. I haven't seen anything of Sci-Fi Rush and that segment made me fall in love; Looking cool Joker! As someone aspiring to create a silent protagonist to better express their personality through dynamic visual expressions, i would love to see what you have to say on them. I'd be ready and waiting to take some notes from your perspective on the trope done right and wrong!

[@tasty_cake6563]

*KAZUMA KIRYU* >proceeds to play Akiyama's theme

[@bjr4536]

Since you mentioned Disgaea at the beginning of the video I would love to see you do a video on those games 😙

[@plumaDshinigami]

Call me old-fashioned, but there's a reason the superhero genre has both men and women who embody the best of what humans can be without needing to be relatable, they are idealistic. That's what makes a good hero into a great if not a timeless one, a beacon of what we can be, but without being preachy nor trying to lecture you. And the main example and perhaps the best is OG Superman, a man who despite having the greatest powers in the world is constantly using them to do good. He could destroy the world, but acts like the adult in the room by not abusing his might to just control others. I sorely miss the times when a hero takes time off his busy day to help a cat off a tree. Similar case with Spider-Man being the friendly neighborhood hero - not once did he need to fight for the sake of the multiverse or stop gods. We love seeing the guy talk to the people of New York despite the crap thrown his way by JJ, even getting thanked by someone for helping being an inspiration to quit smoking. There are also great stories in which the two just take time to listen and be around people who truly need them like Superman saving people who feel like jumping off a bridge to show them that there can be someone that cares or Spider-Man confiding in a fan of his who is about to die of cancer to give that child just a little joy in life. I sorely miss heroes who were good people, yes.

[@spoontheguy5397]

I love how Dante transforms in DMCV from the wacky wahoo pizza man into a man who still jokes around, but is dead set on his mission because of his blood feud with Vergil.