Manolis Kellis: Human Genome and Evolutionary Dynamics | Lex Fridman Podcast

Manolis Kellis is a professor at MIT and head of the MIT Computational Biology Group. He is interested in understanding the human genome from a computational, evolutionary, biological, and other cross-disciplinary perspectives.
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EPISODE LINKS:
Manolis Website: web.mit.edu/manoli/
Manolis Twitter: / manoliskellis
Manolis Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manolis...
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website:
lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts:
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Spotify:
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RSS:
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Full episodes playlist:
• Lex Fridman Podcast
Clips playlist:
• Lex Fridman Podcast Clips
OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
3:54 - Human genome
17:47 - Sources of knowledge
29:15 - Free will
33:26 - Simulation
35:17 - Biological and computing
50:10 - Genome-wide evolutionary signatures
56:54 - Evolution of COVID-19
1:02:59 - Are viruses intelligent?
1:12:08 - Humans vs viruses
1:19:39 - Engineered pandemics
1:23:23 - Immune system
1:33:22 - Placebo effect
1:35:39 - Human genome source code
1:44:40 - Mutation
1:51:46 - Deep learning
1:58:08 - Neuralink
2:07:07 - Language
2:15:19 - Meaning of life
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[@lexfridman]

I really enjoyed this conversation with Manolis. Here's the outline: 0:00 - Introduction 3:54 - Human genome 17:47 - Sources of knowledge 29:15 - Free will 33:26 - Simulation 35:17 - Biological and computing 50:10 - Genome-wide evolutionary signatures 56:54 - Evolution of COVID-19 1:02:59 - Are viruses intelligent? 1:12:08 - Humans vs viruses 1:19:39 - Engineered pandemics 1:23:23 - Immune system 1:33:22 - Placebo effect 1:35:39 - Human genome source code 1:44:40 - Mutation 1:51:46 - Deep learning 1:58:08 - Neuralink 2:07:07 - Language 2:15:19 - Meaning of life

[@manassricharanvarri]

Lex please make a video on how you process all the info. And to what extent or how are you using this podcast to develop your current skills.

[@RosaLei]

Lex Fridman. Phenomenal and beautifully progressed conversation with Manolis! It left me wanting his talk to continue. I love your podcast, I'm learning so much; you've become one of my favorite interesting minds to follow. Thank you for this good work you are doing, it is refreshingly stimulating. Aloha! RosaLei

[@4NWHIP]

This is one of my favorite episodes. Thank you both for changing how I process genomes, viruses, evolutionary structures, and creativity.

[@babyphoenix1963]

@@manassricharanvarri agree but I imagine he busy lol

[@sreramk1494]

Every word Manolis Kellis says inspires me deeply. I must watch this again.

[@rogerzen8696]

I am a 49 yr old business owner. Listening to Lex's podcasts made me enroll in MIT's Data Science degree program to study AI, listening to these Manolis episodes made me take up computational biology courses. Absolutely fascinating!

[@droid16beta97]

How's it going now?

[@rogerzen8696]

@@droid16beta97 Well, I was accepted by Harvard last year and now I'm half way through the Master 's program in Data Science.

[@droid16beta97]

@@rogerzen8696 That's amazing! I hope you're enjoying it, my man.

[@rogerzen8696]

@@droid16beta97 Thanks! Learning has changed my life in profound ways. What a time to be alive and learn from great minds like Lex, Manolis, and many others. Enjoy!

[@donnied6151]

As Joe Rogan said Follow your curiosity!

[@Nexus2Eden]

The only thing I am upset about is that every single podcast blows my mind! I keep putting it on, thinking "Oh I'll just listen to this in the background." And then spend 2 hours and 30 minutes glued to the screen say, "Yes! Yes! Exactly! YES!" And feeling like I want to move to the island where all you and your guests live and we all work together to build and amazing world. I cannot adequately share the level of respect, humility, gratitude, and inspiration your podcast has for me and I'm sure millions in the future. Such an amazing gift - better than anything I've ever gotten for Christmas! or my Birthday! Ever! Absolutely life affirming! Love you Lex - keep knocking it out of the park. And Manolis...I can't even! Brilliant! What a exceptional human being. Wow! Thanks again Lex! The best ever! You are the Science Guy's Joe Rogan!

[@ManolisKellis1]

@Vox Daze So sorry to hear about you and your father. I completely agree and understand your frustration. My own sister also underwent painful MS treatments for many years, which was exhausting for her and for our family. The path from discovery to therapeutics is very long, and involves dozens of institutions, from the initial mechanistic insights and discoveries (very often in academia), to the mouse models, medicinal chemistry, and therapeutic development (often in industry/academia partnerships), to the clinical trials, manufacturing, and dissemination (involving government, hospitals, pharma). Here's a review of our current understanding of MS. Not fully dissected yet, but many mechanistic paths are extensively worked out www.nature.com/articles/s41572-018-0041-4 Here's also list of existing therapeutics www.webmd.com/multiple-sclerosis/ms-drugs-comparison Yes, they're not perfect, but it's not fair to say that we have no idea what's causing MS and that absolutely nothings has been developed to help it

[@Nexus2Eden]

@@ManolisKellis1 Point made. Mic Drop. Thank you Manolis for being a beacon of hope. I feel humble calling us both human by comparison.

[@b_liv_u59]

@Vox Daze maybe the' science world" was more concentrated on understanding evolution, perhaps

[@iphonesuzy6790]

Vox Daze MSM - Methylsulfonylmethane - Nutritional Sulfur Multiple Sclerosis. MSM helps to keep cell walls permeable - water flows in - toxins flow out. MSM or MethylSulfonylMethane is a naturally occurring organic sulfur found in the tissues of all plants and animals (including humans). In fact, sulfur is the fourth most abundant mineral in the body. www.worldimage.com/condition/multiplesclerosis/ I’m not saying that is a cure but - it helps a lot of things. Just make sure - if you buy any - that it’s verified 99% pure and in *crystal* form.

[@iphonesuzy6790]

Vox Daze Oh and also - it can take a few months to get noticeable results with MSM - so don’t miss days taking it - also stay hydrated - and keep at it for a few months.

[@timgrove3927]

One of the best interviews Lex has done I think.

[@goclbert]

Tim Grove The absolute best in my opinion! It’s not often I get this excited listening to a podcast.

[@jadringarcia5021]

Agreed

[@codykingham4089]

Loved it!

[@kicksnarehat4393]

Tim Grove agreed one of the best.

[@flflflflflfl]

Have you seen the one with Joscha Bach?

[@BrianLKL222]

"We are not the inventors of the first digital computer, we are the descendants of the first digital computer" this introduction gave me goosebumps...

[@zuhairmehdee]

I loved this episode. Manolis Kellis clearly loves his work and he's great at spreading that excitement.

[@CPTcopium]

Me too - probably my favourite Lex podcast I've seen so far and I've watched dozens. Will be looking for more talks from Manolis Kellis tomorrow and hope to find some!

[@guilhermewanderley8135]

Yeah, mine too! Have you guys watched the ones with Karl Friston and Ben Goertzel? I think they have similar qualities of "I love what I'm doing" and "Here's a deep explanation about this thing and how it relates to so many aspects in life"

[@CPTcopium]

@@guilhermewanderley8135 Yeah, both of those were also very good but for some reason, this guy managed to hold my attention throughout the whole thing whereas I was only half listening at times to those guys haha. (I often put one on in the background whilst I play a game or do some coding). Still fascinating though!

[@guilhermewanderley8135]

@@CPTcopium That's true! I think Karl Friston's was the most mind blowing for me once he began talking about his theories, but the previous parts of the episode I kinda already knew so wasn't as much drawn into

[@ManolisKellis1]

@@CPTcopium Thanks so much for your super-nice comments. Here's a list of videos from our "Meaning of Life Symposium" that Lex brought up at the end of our conversation: kzbin.info/aero/PLypiXJdtIca7i8IrNye4IenjnUCP9LF35 :-) Enjoy!

[@woodandwandco]

Manolis’s level of clarity in conveying complex interrelations of compounding layers of ideas with simple metaphors and profound, eloquent statements is quite unparalleled in my humble opinion. Lex’s ability to artistically coax his interviewees into imbuing their words with meaning is also unparalleled. Thank you for the inspiring set of questions and answers. You have given me much food for thought. I am forever grateful to you both!

[@russelltreadway]

The last minutes made me cry, as a father I really appreciate his wisdom. Thank you.

[@muttananba5071]

The last part about language was astounding and profound beyond my expectations. Despite working in the medical field, I am too first and foremost a man of letters, a lover of poetry and literature, firstly that of the ancient Greeks, from Homer to Plato to Callimachus to so many others, of whom I could talk about and listen to for hours.. Hearing Professor Kellis talking so eloquently and passionately about etimology (being a Greek himself!) and Lex reflecting on the tribulations in translating the opus of a true giant as Dostoevskij, spoke to me and left me wondering in ways I did not expect at all, from a "merely scientific" podcast. Thank you immensely for this conversation! Much love to everyone who enjoyed this as I did.

[@windowzombie]

I feel like reading and analyzing Crime and Punishment (in English) in high school as a literature class requirement branched off my life trajectory in a substantial way.

[@lorahgross2757]

I've listened to or watched about 90 of these episodes so far and this is the first one that made me cry at the end. Not only interesting and insightful, but touching and emotional too.

[@RedCurlyHead]

yes!

[@yashkarbhari721]

Nobody: Lex Fridman: "Sorry for romanticizing the question "

[@mateusmarta1943]

On a small tangent...

[@DisasterxUs]

Linger on that for a minute

[@KaninTuzi]

Guest: I think that might be slightly off the mark Lex: Maybe it's because I'm Russian and I romanticize suffering

[@abelgeressu2709]

Fundamentally

[@djai1662]

I recently got my hands on a bunch of roombas...

[@chickenshieee]

You’re the Joe Rogan of science Lex

[@savaloy666999]

Lex's show makes Rogan's vanity project look like The View/Loose Women.

[@delatroy]

no he's not tall enough

[@looseunit9180]

Don’t insult the Russian. Rogan is a fucking clown - literally

[@good-questions]

He’s the Lex Fridman of science

[@mdanielson6301]

He's the Snoop Dogg of science, he be dropping mad apples on my head from the shoulders of giants

[@star-302]

Manolis was soo good that he created a system overload in Lex's brain.

[@lnc-to4ku]

That's hilarious! ;D I saw that a few times too.

[@chrizmatic7393]

I love how friendly and calm Mr Kellis is talking

[@ukimalla]

Please bring him back for part 2! Or every other episode. I could listen to your conversations for days!

[@ES-ex5it]

Manolis Kellis needs to write a book. Before this interview, I had NO clue that Computational Biology was a 'thing'. Now I want to learn all about it. When he speaks about the meaning of life and about seeing life through the eyes of our children... those minutes are truly life changing. What a beautiful mind! Thank you.

[@innosanto]

It is 30 years at least a thing.

[@KOKOPIKOSS]

Love to see my fellow Greeks push the boundaries of human knowledge...especially when biology and evolution is involved!!!

[@alex_vlach]

αμην!

[@user-kn9ib9zm4q]

να δω ποιος δημοσιογραφος ..ποιος...θα μπορουσε να του παρει συνεντευξη..κανεις δεν νομιζω

[@innosanto]

Yes but did you see Manolis on Greek TV? I saw his points on Lex great podcast. But Greek TV could have such people in Greek shows instead of talking about sh.t every day on TV crap Greek media.

[@TheSteppenwolf77]

Lex Romanticizing Fridman and Manolis Basically Kellis had one brilliant conversation

[@lengould9262]

Lex. Excellent interview, and example of how valuable your project is.

[@goyobartoli6803]

Never wanted to have children but that monologue about the meaning of life really hits hard.

[@mooseknuckleninja6054]

“Become one” damn that gave me goosebumps. I love it 2:18:43

[@tyapeexperience7331]

this is what getting high on life actually and literally means.

[@gonzalogutierrez970]

KZbin is typically an ocean of irrelevance, but Lex Fridman's videos make a big difference

[@angelasutherland7479]

This guy makes me feel a renewed sense of the absolute awe that this life on earth is. Thank you so much Lex for bringing Manolis's wisdom into my life ❤️

[@ZacheryGlass]

When Sam Harris stopped talking about interesting scientific topics, this became my favorite podcast

[@naartarnegol9448]

...I doubt S.Harris to be sincere.

[@PrashantMaurice]

At first i was anxious about Lex wasting time in simulation argument, and 1.5hrs later, again me rooting for Lex's obligatory Meaning of Life question. An emotional rollercoaster this chemical bag endures in these podcasts.

[@4551blue]

Manolis dispatched that topic post haste...and added that digital simulation would lack the resilience of analogous life.

[@porkbrain4482]

1:52:50-1:53:45 the legendary “same frikin genome” part

[@TechnicFlow]

I'm so glad to hear MIT people talk about wikipedia in a reasonable manner. Wikipedia contains some of the most highly scrutinized and curated data about any subject. If you really don't trust the article, click the number links, go to the source, and verify.

[@McKinleyMorann]

One of the best yet! Last 20 minutes was pure gold.

[@diraziz396]

Dear Lex. I'm sold from the Intro alone. Thank you

[@martynasvenckus423]

When he talked about the meaning of life, my eyes started filling with tears. That was powerful.

[@BrianPaul1984]

Lex, this interview is pure gold! The passion this man has for his work, and for life in general, is truly inspirational and amazing. He literally exudes positive energy and optimism unlike anyone I have ever seen. His ability to explain complex ideas with such articulate eloquence and enthusiasm is captivating to the intellect. As I'm typing this comment, I see the thumbnail of another interview with him queued up in my suggestions that is only 3 days old... I can't wait to watch it! PLEASE BRING THIS GUY BACK ON AS OFTEN AS YOU ARE ABLE TO! YOU HAVE A NEW SUBSCRIBER!!

[@Trooper266]

Using computers to understand biology. It’s so sad to know that so many intelligent software developers are being wasted in working for advertising and social media companies while there are problems like these to solve.

[@user-kn9ib9zm4q]

i like

[@brag0001]

Look at it this way: all that advertising sells all those computer games which incite all those people to buy all those computers which evolved today's GPUs used to do many of the calculations biologists need to do. Nobody would have invested billions and billions of dollars to create such very fast calculator without knowing beforehand whether this would work and benefit the research ...

[@altbert]

@kommentator also most of the collected data from this social medias it's used for training AI systems and other useful things

[@kiseitai2]

I will make you one better. One of my interests in Computer Science was to build an understanding of the human brain (I’m a biochemist/medical student). This is why I chuckled the first time I heard about neuron networks.

[@socrattt]

Money talks.

[@konspiratzailea]

Very interesting and sympathetic person.

[@StylianosGreg]

One of the best episodes of the whole podcast so far! Manolis is an amazing intellectual!

[@chadpoole4324]

Thank you for this podcast! This is one of my favorite subjects that conventional biology professors do not talk about. It’s so refreshing listening to Manolis Kellis speak so eloquently on the intersections of biology and technology. I believe the highest forms of tech will be indistinguishable from biological processes.

[@borisboutkov]

Lex, Manolis, thanks for allowing us to hear this exchange of ideas. Beautiful, accessible, and left me with much to think about. Great work.

[@MrZantas]

One of your most interesting guests. Great stuff!

[@KC-jh3yc]

This might be one of the best podcasts I have come across

[@dereklause6836]

by far one of the best podcasts you've ever done, keep them coming lex!

[@danielfirebanksquevedo891]

What an inspiring conversation, I wish there was a podcast where you explored in depth each of the topics you talked about in this interview. This motivated me to start watching the MIT CompBio lectures. Thank you so much Lex and Manolis!

[@lilleparber]

From listening to Manolis, he seems like the greatest teacher you could ever have :)

[@NunoTenazinha]

This has been one of the most interesting conversations ever!

[@Ab-wy9lm]

This man definitely has to come back for a few more episodes.

[@erikjensen8741]

Lex, one of your best interviews! Absolutely wonderful.

[@janicestandley909]

This podcast was so insightful and inspiring. It's almost as if i needed to hear it! Perfect!

[@NullM0niker]

I think Lex's podcasts with Manolis are definitely some of his best. You can just feel the passion he has for this stuff radiating from him. Very infectious.

[@AyanTheChosenOne]

I was glued to the screen the entire way on this one. What a fascinating subject, so many opportunities for advances here

[@sgtsnakeeyes11]

test

[@Nexus2Eden]

Same here - riveted to the screen for 2.5 hours! lol Wow!

[@succelus]

What an episode ! Manolis Kellis is what a beautiful mind looks like :)

[@keirawatterson6137]

Love how he talks about his kids. Spot on

[@BabelRedeemed]

My favorite parts 1:02:59 - Are viruses intelligent? 1:12:08 - Humans vs viruses Awesome explanation of the awe-inspiring nature of the natural world.

[@thebalaa]

Love how he talks about his kids. Spot on

[@TimeTravelinHendrix]

This podcast session has to be the best thing I've listened to all year. Very inspiring and also mind blowing. Kellis's enthusiasm is contagious and exudes passion for his fields. This podcast alone has givin me a lot of insight into our behavior, the origin of life and understanding. Thank you Lex and Manolis!

[@janicestandley909]

this guy blows my mind!

[@shashanks.k855]

Man .... I dont know how to appreciate the interviews you do ... it just makes me so happy to listen to these conversations

[@tyfoodsforthought]

As someone super interested in the potential for lossless communication.. The idea that misinterpretation is perhaps the root of creativity, and therefore is a feature, not a bug, is fascinating. I greatly appreciate Manolis Kellis's approach to understanding biology through computer science, but what especially resonates with me is this idea of starting from messiness (noise-tolerance) and building from there. I think a lot of great applications will come from such engineering principles. Another one of my favorite nuggets, is about the unintuitive nature of evolution. "By making bacteria worse, you allow the bacteria to reach a new optimum". In other words, you must sometimes go backwards to go forwards. Lastly... "The arc towards perfection is more important than how far you are after your first step". That's a great quote. Thank you very much, Lex! Edit: Gosh, ALSO, that was also the most well prepared answer to the question of "What is the meaning of life?" That I have heard thus far. So good 👏🏾

[@sundaycreative]

I got so many amazing ideas from this interview. So appreciated to Lex for so incredible guests.

[@lnc-to4ku]

I've listened to many fascinating podcast, but I have to say that this has been the most beautiful, fascinating and awe-inspiring listen in a long time! Thank you, Lex, for the incredible content you always provide, the amazing questions you ask, and for how you so perfectly put the whole thing together for us!!

[@TheMongolianMage]

This guy must be the most amazing teacher He's so com/passionate & explains & breakdowns complex concepts simply as he goes

[@OrHiltch]

This is one of my favourite episodes. Manolis is amazing and discusses such a big variety of topics with so much depth of thought. Thanks for the amazing work, Lex!

[@naartarnegol9448]

...from 2:21:41 to 2:29:24 it's a wonder! Such deep conversation this Greek person is amazing, and Lex is one of the most brilliant mind. Thank you so much for giving us the opportunity to participate in such epistemic discussions. 🇫🇷

[@Levi-ji2vn]

Honestly might be your best guest ever

[@MirekHeikkila]

aww i loved this! after some stress i had to watch it again, thank you!

[@Thomas_Lo]

This was the most inspiring talk I listened to in weeks. Thank you Lexi for introducing us to Manolis

[@adamgao778]

A lot of ideas in this interview reminds me of the book "The Beginning of Infinity"

[@kavehmemar]

I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, Manolis is so passionate, it's incredible.

[@r-gart]

16:00, Dawkins used the word meme (well before the internet memes) to describe cultural genes

[@peterszilvasi752]

I can not believe how this conversation captivates my attention for the whole time. The words, the gestures, the excitements, the pauses between sentences, everything. I can't wait to watch Manolis's next talks. "I think if more people understand the beauty of human genome there would be so much fewer war." - Manolis Kellis

[@greggorywilson2765]

You two were laugh out loud hilarious. The interview was outstanding.

[@deutschlandpanzer]

It so happens I was running in Texas while listening to this. Thanks for the shoutout!

[@gwaterhouse]

All of your discussions are incredible. That was absolutely outstanding.

[@looseunit9180]

This is one of the best in a playlist of bests. Thanks Lex and Manolis

[@ingenium7135]

Holy shit, that was an amazing conversation. At the beginning i was like yeah thats good and interesting and i love biology, but the most fascinating part to me, was the way of thinking of Manolis Kellis and his perspektive on live and so many things. Keep it up👍

[@huguesviens]

Brilliant, once again brilliant ! Thanks for the amazing discussion.

[@DonCat-sc3qo]

Amazing interview. Thanks Lex and Manolis. Inspiring!

[@arthdh5222]

A mindblowing podcast! Thank you so much for the great content. An idea: Having a section in the podcast where you take the most upvoted question from the comments(Maybe announcing the next speaker would give viewers time to prepare the questions!) Keep up the great work!

[@lifeisgood339]

This was the best interview this described reality in such an elegant way.

[@zeeeeeeeeeavs]

Lex, this discussion is such a beauty! Thank you

[@Citizen16603]

The final commentary at the end was truly inspiring. Thank you for these podcasts, Lex.

[@losboston]

Lex, been watching these podcasts for a while now and I've loved them all. But this one? Wow! Thank you alot and many thanks to Manolis. I'll be using this one to remind myself and to illustrate to my kids that a great path to knowledge is to honestly and humbly embrace what we don't know, and to let that guide us, for example in pausing the flow of ideas in a learning event for clarification, and that the key tool in learning is the art of the right question, of which you are a master. Also, this episode has the best quote to date! I think you know which one. Much love from Kansas.

[@razadaza9651]

I love this guy! I will follow all his work going forward.

[@andrel5234]

What an incredible man and mind. Thank you

[@TNTlife28]

You can tell that this guy is a genuis

[@scififan698]

Which one? Lol

[@GrimSleepy]

@@scififan698 No, they were just announcing what we were all thinking sci... Which is that TNTlife28 is amazing and awesome. I agree op!!! You rock!

[@maggyfrog]

every second feels like an existential crisis if everything is deterministic in nature.

[@yashthakker8569]

One of your best so far, keep up the good work

[@gsutton57]

This i think is one of my favorite of all your podcasts Lex! Fantastic job! What an absolutely fascinating person Manolis is! I wish I could vote for HIM for president!

[@spearshome0329]

Amazing interview!!

[@vadimosm]

This guy is an awesome speaker.

[@epyjacek]

What an incredibly fascinating and valuable conversation.

[@MrClaysta]

Great podcast so far, perhaps underrated! This channel and video deserves way more exposure.

[@endatheworld]

Great discussion. Fascinating talking points. Thank you both.

[@kirkkirk5797]

I just watched the podcast with Euginia Kuya and just went straight to this one. So many things I just keep learning. Thanks Lex.

[@TheGiantGi]

Damn... it was a good podcast... so happy to see that there are four of these conversations....

[@elizabethpolinski3492]

This was inspiring. The discussion moved me and filled me gratitude. Thank you both. I sent it to my son as he is reaching a crossroads filled with decisions a parent can only observe. 🤟

[@davidbutler378]

That was a beautiful tribute to your children: they are very lucky to have you as their father.

[@metafuel]

A really awesome discussion and guest. Thank you Lex.

[@tristanthescientist]

What a wonderful and profound conversation... Thank you so much.

[@all_bets_on_Ganesh]

Happy to see everyone in the comments enjoyed this as much as i did. This guys the best. Thanks Lex.

[@proksenospapias9327]

This one of the best conversations I have ever eavesdropped. Manoli, thanks vre mpagasa, pragmatika panemorfh syzhthsh.

[@itsMeehow]

Lex where ever life takes you, please never stop sharing with us, loved this one

[@roflex2]

What an incredible person. His simple explanations of incredibly complex topics, everything is simply incredible to listen to.