Mansfield Park by Jane Austen Review pt.1 | Book Chats

[@eirrenia]

I love Fanny Price as a heroine, but I can understand why so many people don’t get her. The modern narrative is so much about “taking charge of your destiny”, yadda yadda, that we overlook the virtues developed in difficult circumstances where there is very little one can control. Quiet and restrained does not equal doormat.

[@Boylit]

You’re definitely right. Applying a certain perspective to a situation without taking into consideration the context and all the nuances of character seems narrow to me.

[@doublequilI]

Fanny Price is the "Invisible Child" discussed in child psychology, well, well before that idea was really even explored.

[@jjjnettie]

Fanny comes out of her shell when she's with, or talking about her brother. She becomes animated, alive, in a way she can't be with those around her. She corresponds regularly with William, and while we don't get to read any of the letters we can guess that she doesn't hold back anything from him. When they are heading to Portsmouth, they gossip together about Mrs Norris. So he obviously knows about how she treats Fanny. They are planning her future for when she finally leaves Mansfield Park, the little house that they shall share. I think William is what kept her sane in that toxic environment.

[@thesisypheanjournal1271]

I love Fanny Price and rather than being frustrated by her physical weakness I see it as a deliberate point made by Austen to contrast with Fanny's moral strength. Fanny chose her battles and only dug her heels in when asked to do something that was wrong. She has a lot in common with Jane Eyre.

[@Boylit]

I totally agree! It’s an interesting point that her physical weakness is intended to highlight her moral strength.

[@zuzanka1981]

"She has a lot in common with Jane Eyre." I'd like to hear more on this. I just don't see any similarities beside superficial - they're both quiet on the outside. But Jane Eyre rages against all that is unjust in the world on the inside. Also I could never imagine Fanny to be able to form half of the thoughts that Jane Eyre expresses in conversations with Rochester. Fanny is too preocupied being anxious about what is deemed morally right/wrong according to the maxims learnt from Edmund. Example: Her thoughts that it would have been better if Maria died.

[@thesisypheanjournal1271]

@@zuzanka1981 In no particular order: 1. Both were mentally (and in Jane's case physically) abused by relatives who took them in as young children. Yes, Jane was outwardly rebellious while Fanny was withdrawn, but each still had a sense of herself and her worth as a person. 2. Each developed a profound sense of right and wrong which she followed regardless of the hardships this caused her. For Jane it was destitution and throwing herself on the kindness of strangers, for Fanny it was emotional abuse and attempts at gaslighting. Both of them stood strong if the face of the opposition. 3. Each fostered a secret love for an unattainable man and retained her dignity despite a beautiful, accomplished, socially superior romantic rival. 4. Each took advantage of every educational resource made available to her, and made self-betterment a priority. 5. Each strove to treat the people around them with kindness and respect, though Fanny took this far beyond what many of them deserved. 6. Each had a deep appreciation for and love of nature and natural beauty. 7. Each of them preferred simplicity to ostentation.

[@zuzanka1981]

@@thesisypheanjournal1271 1. Jane as a child outwardly rebels against anything and everything that she deems unjust. Fanny is meek and suffers in silence. Yes, Jane develops a strong sense of herself despite the way she is treated. Fanny isn't assertive at all, not even in her own thoughts, she constantly doubts her own judgement. 2. Again outwardly there's a similarity. The difference is that Jane was totally unbending where her morals were involved. In Mansfield Park we're told by the narrator at least twice that had Edmund married Mary Crawford Fanny would have eventually consented to marry Henry. 3. The difference is that Rochester is secretely in love with Jane all along and Miss Ingram is just a ruse while Edmund has truly only brotherly feelings towards Fanny and is infatuated with Mary Crawford. But you're right that both retained their dignity while believing that their love was unrequited. 4. Dubious in both cases. Fanny is shown to be reluctant to take advantage of educational opportunities Bertrams had given her - did she learn to sing, to play any instrument, to draw? She "learned" to ride very reluctantly and only cajoled by Edmund. Jane was forced by circumstances to develop as many accomplishments as she could to make her way in the world as a teacher and a governess. 5. Certainly true in Fanny. Not so much in Jane especially younger Jane - if somebody treated her badly she couldn't and wouldn't show them respect no matter the cost. 6. Dubious in Fanny. Fanny didn't want the trees in Mr Rushworth's property destroyed and enjoyed walks in the garden in MP and in Portsmouth but where did she showed deep love for nature beyond ordinary appreciation? I always interpreted her walks as her only way to escape oppressive behavior of her relatives, Mrs Norris in MP and her mother and father in Portsmouth. I won't dispute Jane because while I can't remember any instance of her rapture over the beauty of nature, drawing was her escape and she drew not only from her imagination (the drawings Rochester commended) but natural scenes too. So I guess she had to have a higher level of appreciacion for natural beauty. 7. This I agree with. Anyway, thank you for your answer. You didn't change my mind. The similatiries still seem superficial to me. But your list made me want to re-read Jane Eyre again. So thanks for that.

[@kevinrussell-jp6om]

A Jane Eyre before there was a Jane Eyre. Nicely observed and expressed.

[@mysticmouse7261]

Mansfield Park is a triumph of English literature.

[@coffeefortwo2718]

😊May I never ask someone I hardly know, “Why are you so quiet?”😊 Lovely analysis of FP as an introvert, thank you!

[@bw3839]

Thank you so much for really focusing on Fanny’s experience- I was raised in an abusive home (quite happy now tho lol) and I was so struck with how well Jane Austen captured that feeling of being stuck and not knowing there is another way of existing and being treated. Some people think she was weak- but I think her ability to retain her sense of self was amazing. She stuck to her principles and dug in her heels when it absolutely mattered and was smart enough keep her silence in the meantime.

[@tonyausten2168]

Fanny was not abused though, but she comes off as lonely. Perhaps that's how you related to her growing up.

[@bw3839]

@@tonyausten2168 ummmm.... you aren’t too clever are you lol..... Aunt Norris’s constant verbal belittling and efforts to work against Fanny’s comforts amd interests was absolutely abuse. Fanny was neglected and methodically made to feel less than her cousins- from a very young age- sometimes this neglect and abuse was so bad she was physically ill from it. For instance, the time she was sick from running errands on a hot summer, or ill because her aunts refused to let Edmund buy the horse she needed for her health. Her Aunt Norris even made sure she couldn’t have a fire to keep warm. This is all 100% abuse. I am sorry your understanding of childhood abuse and your understanding of the novel is so limited. I suggest you educate yourself further and maybe reread the novel before making any more condescending yet amusingly ignorant and comments.

[@tonyausten2168]

@@bw3839 Wow. ALL that bru ha ha just because i said Fanny was not abused, and that you relate to Fanny's loneliness??? I mean, i am befuddled as to which makes you more diabolical, the claim of Fanny not being abused or you being lonely? ALL points you have raised about Fanny being abused are valid, as far as the efforts you took to mention them & that's it hon. For starter, you have to take things in context according to the novels time & era. Fanny Price was indeed inferior to her cousins. She was a poor relation who was under the patronage of Sir Bertram. Mrs. Norris stating that fact is not fake or abusive, it is fact. Is Mrs. Norris vexing & annoying? Yes. Is she unkind? Yes. Is Fanny Price cousins spoilt & inconsiderate? Yes. Jane Austen clearly tells us in the novel. But abuse is a modern psychological concept. You are viewing the novel in the lens of modern pop psychology bs. Fanny Price nature was meek & mousey- not as a result of the "abuse" she supposedly experienced, but a natural disposition of her inward personality. Above ALL Fanny Price is a Moralistic character. Jane Austen wanted Fanny Price to be a moralistic character, virtually all characters are morally educated in the end except Fanny. Which makes her a prodigious bore, than say the fabulous Mary Crawford for example; but that does not necessarily mean, i do not like Miss Price. I think as a character based on the confinement of the novel- she is a marvel. Furthermore, i am more of a fan now when i saw the analysis of Boylit. You calling me names, and returning condescension if ever i was condescending to begin with , is a bit neurotic. Either way, i wish you good day! :)

[@bw3839]

@@tonyausten2168 lmao, those are a lot of words to say you totally didn’t understand the novel.

[@tonyausten2168]

@@bw3839 I never said i didn't understand the novel. I think you assumed i didn't understand it. in another post i made above, i said i now rank Fanny P third in my Austen favorite heroines - right behind Elizabeth Bennett and Anne Elliot, Either way, i wish you a fantastic day!

[@joanvanore322]

I absolutely admire Fanny Price. One of the difficulties is that she's in the position of being jealous (of Mary Crawford) almost from the beginning, and we all feel embarrassed when we are jealous. It's not a pleasant emotion to feel, and it's not attractive. But it is natural, and it doesn't make her wrong in the main (though once in awhile it makes her judgments of Mary a bit harsh). But her strength in knowing what is right, and refusing a marriage that would not suit her, is amazing, given the pressure she's under. Also-- the older I get, the more struck I am by the not-so-subtle manipulative praise she gets from Sir Thomas and Edmund for being a "properly submissive" female (read, doormat). Edmund thinks that submitting to Crawford's affection will prove her to be the perfect woman, which her being ground down into service to her aunts shows her to be. People may find her annoyingly moralistic, but honestly, it's "principle" that gives her a way to assert herself when she needs to.

[@Boylit]

Very well said! Edmund’s manipulative behavior with and expectations of Fanny is one of the reasons I don’t perfectly like him.

[@cathipalmer8217]

As an oldest child myself (was she oldest child or oldest girl?...eh, same same), most of Fanny's affirmation in her birth home was for being helpful, and then with the Bertrams, it was the same. The thing she received affirmation for was helping her aunt. Naturally, she would make that role her own.

[@qrqdx]

A fantastic and well-rounded review of MP. Thank you for defending Fanny Price in particular. So many JA readers dislike her intensely for being “passive” and “pushover“. The part in the novel where it’s explained that she was groomed to be a pleaser since 10 y/o, had no money whatsoever and was treated poorly because of it, and would be sent away in a heartbeat if she displeased her aunts and uncle - for some reason it goes over quite a few heads. For a book with such an empathetic lead, MP is definitely the most ruthless JA satire. And yes, Mrs Norris is a legend.

[@HeyAllyHey]

Well done review! Mansfield Park is a top Jane Austen book for me. I identify w/ Fanny’s quietness & there are parts that I find SO funny.

[@Boylit]

Thank you :) Me too, I relate to her on a personal level more than any other Austen heroine. And with Mrs. Norris of course it’s going to be so damn funny!

[@paladin1726]

The card game was hilarious and Sir Thomas coming home as all the play sets were built and they were ready to go was also laugh out loud hilarious. And Austen’s treatment of awful Mrs. Norris was brilliant from the very start.

[@kathrynhanson3317]

I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed this. Mansfield Park is an amazing book.

[@drc4168]

Beautiful analysis. Thank you. I could relate to FP - I was also sent from a poor, dysfunctional home to my aunt and uncle in the US...it was very surreal reading the book now as an adult aged 40. Austen is at her best when she bucks the trends and shows a different side to her talents.

[@SpinstersLibrary]

What a fascinating analysis and review of a very divisive novel! It took me a reread to really appreciate this novel and its complexities, and I still find it hard to like on an intuitive, emotional level, like I do with Austen's other novels. I do agree that Mrs Norris is the true star of this book though 😂 I didn't connect to Fanny Price at all in the novel, but feel more admiration for her after hearing your analysis. One thing I still don't understand is her admiration of Edmund all throughout the novel. He struck me as an immensely unlikeable character. Sure, he was kind to her as a child, but as soon as Mary Crawford shows up, he becomes nearly as cruel as the other cousins. Hm, lots to think about. Thank you for this fantastic video. Will catch up on part 2 later.

[@Boylit]

Thank you very much! Happy to hear that you liked it and that it made you look at Fanny a bit differently :) Yeah Edmund is supposed to be this generally likable character, but I felt that at moments even when he was being kind to Fanny, there was something patronizing and self-centered about him. That’s one reason I was not quite satisfied with the ending. But anyway, I don’t think he became as cruel as the others. Sure he became oblivious to Fanny in a few scenes, but he remained generally kind to her (the necklace is one example that comes to mind now).

[@charlotteottaway2208]

I feel that with the separation from family love, she attached to Edmund. I agree that this is the least romantic. I loved Fanny, so stoic actually. I didn't think she was weak or insipid. I thought she was a survivor. Edmund wasn't the romantic suitor that you'd expect. But she wanted that love of belonging and kindness and that was what he gave her

[@charlotteottaway2208]

@@Boylit yes totally agree with stoic!

[@charlotteottaway2208]

They basically send her back to poverty to manipulate her into marrying him. I love that she was appreciated in the end. Loved this review

[@iamsanna4567]

To give Edmund more credit, we have to acknowledge that all (or most of) the reasons why Fanny loves him so much are not made explicit in the story, but only hinted at. As a reader we almost only get see him madly in love with Mary Crawford, which makes him act out of character - Fanny often remarks about the bad influence Mary has on him. I think he is much more likable before (and after) his blundering blindness.

[@k.arlanebel6732]

Mansfield Park is Jane Austen’s bravest and boldest novel. I think the primary reason why most readers don’t ‘get’ Fanny Price is that they don’t want to ‘get’ her. They don’t want to understand her. She is a character with a combination of features that is frightening and invites the reader into places most Austen fan-readers don’t want to go. There is no question that Fanny is the most percipient character in the novel. She really does see people more deeply than anyone else in the novel. But Fanny also has wounds that shape her own personality in ways that are generally considered ‘negative’. But there is too quick a reaction in readers that wrongly evaluates these features in Fanny. I think what many readers are actually offended by in Fanny (and in Austen here) is that Fanny’s primary interest in life is a not a romantic love interest. Her primary interest is in truth and reality. It is not that Fanny is not interested in relationship, and even romantic love relationship, it is rather that whatever interest she has there is grounded in her driving interest in truth and reality. It is Fanny’s conviction that most people are not trustworthy if you go past the surface. This fact about Fanny leaves her in a very difficult condition because it makes it very challenging for Fanny to have comfortable relationships with people which feel to her like relationships with masks. What Fanny wants more than anything is relationship that feels real and honest on the level where she actually exists. This feature which makes Fanny look almost anti-human to many readers is a feature that Jane Austen actually has deep compassion and sympathy for. If I were to somehow learn that Jane Austen herself was more like Fanny than any of her other heroine’s, it wouldn’t surprise me at all, though I am not claiming that that is the case. But I am claiming that the existence of Mansfield Park puts Austen on a level of artistic achievement higher than where she would be without it. There is something similar to Dostoyevsky in this novel and I love it. Bravo, Jane Austen.

[@Boylit]

Well said. I believe understanding how Fanny’s personality is shaped by her wounds, as you said, and relating to her on that level is the key to Fanny’s character. Overlooking that and looking at her as the traditional heroine of a romance novel would only lead to disliking her. But also, seeing past the span of two hundred years separating us from the world of the novel and not evaluating the characters based on today’s standards and expectations is really important too, in my opinion.

[@jenniferbrooks]

Fanny is probably the heroine of Jane Austen’s I find to be the most independent and in a way, she might be the one I relate to the most. Loved hearing your thoughts on this. Mansfield Park has really stuck with me in a way the other novels of Jane Austen’s have not. It’s a fascinating work and I loved hearing how you interpreted it.

[@Boylit]

Thank you :) I definitely agree about Fanny and Mansfield Park standing out among the other novels and characters.

[@GalacticReads]

A fantastic in-depth review. Nice to see some booktubers review the classics!

[@Boylit]

YES this channel is going to be all about classics. Thanks!

[@ladyfreddie7513]

Can’t wait for Persuasion. It’s the jewel

[@smillabutryn7517]

I do agree with you and I highly admire your delicacy of feelings and understanding of Funny Price.

[@tonyausten2168]

Boylit OMG!!! Your analysis of Fanny Price is amazing, Poignant & Illuminating. Thank you. I am amazed honestly. Fanny price has just shot up at my top three favorite Jane Austen Heroine as of now. Behind Elizabeth Bennett & Anne Elliot of course.

[@Boylit]

Thank you! So happy to hear that :)

[@pamferdinand7878]

I read Mansfield Park three times before I could fathom Fanny Price, and then she stood with me as one of my favorite characters of all of Austen's creations. She is a model for me in dealing with people who are, in essence, not worth the fight!

[@sidneymitchell7160]

I love this book. In reading it after reading Austen's more popular books, I had every faith in the author and it was fun to see that Austen, indeed, likes not ever to retell a story. She is a master strategist as a novelist. In Mansfield Park, she gives us an adult Cinderella story. An abused house slave witnesses everything because she has invisibility as a person. In Fanny's case, she has a tremendous appreciation for Edward's kindness to her that is off-handed on his part but even that is proper conduct between an older brother figure to a younger sister figure. Her love for Edward is fervent and for life because her existence is in continuous survival mode and he is her only relief other than having her own thoughts to herself. Her entry and her place in the family is through that love relationship because they have known good companionship as children that is perhaps not noticed by the others. Her anchor as a young child is Edward. Fanny is so suppressed that she is able to create space for herself alone and that is where her wisdom can breathe and grow. Surrounded by superficiality and pretentiousness, she understands the danger of frivolity as a false approach to anyone's coming of age. The banal toxicity is palpable. I am surprised that this is lost on readers. Anyone who has any experience with family dynamics that is perpetuated by parents who 'play favorites' can relate to a Cinderella Story. And to compound this drama is Fanny's future prospects that are so limited compared to all the other young people around her. How ironic is the false good luck of Henry's marriage proposal that is nightmarish and the most dramatic turn of the story! A predatory rogue who craves her goodness..very creepy. The part of the story where she is sent back to her biological family is wonderful because, there too, she is 'the adult in the room'. Her sister, who goes back to Mansfield Park with her, is immediately able to discern the fortune of Fanny's life and since life is hard, regardless, for these young women of no means, the obvious rescue by Fanny is wondrous and righteous. Fanny is doing her younger sister a favor as much as a favor to the aging members of Mansfield Park---and to have her younger sister with her is a very good component for her own future regardless of how it ends up unfolding! Fanny values friendship and knows that being good to others is the best way to conduct oneself. This is where her steadfastness pays off for all the foolish characters who are her family and, as it turns out, for herself too. She becomes everyone's teacher whose example even instructs Mrs. Norton and the divorced niece to banish themselves together from the family estate. Yeah, that was darkly hilarious! Rather brutal, Jane! Bravo, Fanny! Peace in the valley well earned...

[@sidneymitchell7160]

Misspoke above..it is Mrs. Norris, not Norton. In your Part Two on Mansfield Park, I had missed the 'Mrs. Norris' reference in Harry Potter...the mean cat! Very much appreciate ALL your commentary.

[@einahsirro1488]

"The predatory rogue who craves her goodness," that's a great phrase, and it really reminds me how often shades of the classic novel CLARISSA can be seen in Austen's work.

[@Boylit]

@@einahsirro1488 Thank you for reminding me of Clarissa. It's strange for me that I have yet to read this classic because I've so many good things about it, not least from my mother with it being one of her favorite novels of all time. :)

[@Boylit]

@@sidneymitchell7160 Thank you for this well-thought-out commentary on Fanny. I appreciate your take on her attachment to Edward because he's her only relief besides herself, why she's wary of frivolity and pretentiousness, the unique position she's in as an outsider and non-favorite, etc. And I am glad to see that I was not the only one who felt Austen went full brutal in this novel!

[@RH-fh1rn]

Excellent analysis!

[@juliaclegg3480]

Thanks for your insight. Having some perspective before beginning an Austen novel is always helpful.

[@Boylit]

Glad you enjoyed the review :)

[@katinphilly1312]

Wow what a great analysis. I love your take on essentially it being a passive heroine’s journey. Well done

[@Boylit]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you.

[@gryeskedal6300]

Really useful for me to read this review. I am Norwegian and though I am used to read in English it was a bit much for me to handle both reading in an other language and at the same time really get into the novel and all the characters. And also this was a different book from the author. You have really made me think, and cannot wait to join my reading group to discuss this book on thursday. I have already linked your episodes. And I now read the book a second time and your reflections have been helpful. Thank you.

[@Boylit]

Oh it makes me so happy to hear that! Thank your for the comment and your kind words :)

[@joditc]

I love Mansfield Park. Thank you so much for showing the quiet strength, integrity and intelligence of Fanny Price.

[@jediping]

So agree about Fanny. Those who don’t like it seem frustrated by her being “passive,” but it’s not like she would have made it far if she was active, given how everybody treats her.

[@Boylit]

True ..

[@prieten49]

My favorite Jane Austen heroine is Anne Elliot from Persuasion. In second comes Fanny Price. Both are quiet, perhaps timid, but definitely "overlooked" people who demonstrate calm wisdom amidst the raging storm of selfishness around them. What is there not to like about Fanny? She has resilience during adversity. Only she can clearly see the brewing storm.

[@Boylit]

I agree! I’ve read Persuasion lately and I admired and really liked Anne Elliot.

[@Anna-mc3ll]

Thank you very much for this interesting and useful review!

[@coloraturaElise]

I was interested to hear you suggest that the book is about the actual house and all who live in it, and I think that's a fair assessment that I hadn't heard anyone else say. As to Fanny, I do think she's a strong character and I always admired her refusal of Crawford despite the consequences. But as a reader of romantic fiction, I was let down by this book, assuming it would have the same level of romance as the others. I don't require my characters to be "passionately in love", as you put it, but I do want a little more than what we get here, which is basically watching Fanny pine over Edmund as he courts Mary. It's true that Anne Elliot does this in Persuasion, but at least there, Austen gives us hints that Wentworth doesn't really care about the Musgrove girls, so there's tension but with hope. All of that said, as I've gotten older, I've appreciated the layers in the book more and more through each re-reading (about a dozen at this point), though it will never satisfy my extraverted self!

[@Boylit]

Haha, fair points you're making there. One of the comments on this review explained Fanny's attachment to Edward as due to him being her only relief besides herself and her own thoughts and the only one who offers her kindness(?) among all the others who are indifferent or hostile towards her. Beyond this, I agree that their relationship is tedious, and I do not like their ending up together at all. But like you said, there are so many other things to be appreciated and enjoyed in this book that are, in my opinion, more important things than the romantic relationships.

[@nancyd001]

Hello fellow Canadian. 😁 I enjoyed your analysis and insights very much. One thing you missed, and I haven't seen Part 2 so I can't be sure you missed it comletely, is the religious aspect. Jane was the daughter of an Angiican clergyman, and she knows that world very well. So many of her novels involve clergymen. Fanny is the true Christian heroine - long-suffering, modest, faithful, forgiving and discerning. She has the ability to see the moral failings in the people and situations around her. Remember the cross she wore, and how much it meant to her. And more subtly than Trollope (and less hilariously), she pokes holes, via Aunt Norris and her husband, in the "institutional" members of the Church of England, who have no religious values. Yet the second hero, Edmund, is indeed very Christian and wants to be that way. Those are his values, even though he takes a long time to see through Mary Crawford.

[@Boylit]

I did miss that aspect I’m afraid. But you’re definitely right, it makes perfect sense. I know that Jane Austen admires and likes the Christian values you mentioned and the “good” characters usually have such traits or learn them at some point, but for some reason I never paid much attention to that aspect of her work. There’s always something else to look out for with Jane Austen! How did you know I’m in Canada? 😅

[@lolsous]

I also read all of Austen's works recently and read Mansfield Park last. It left me utterly confused about the message of the book, it is clear that Fanny is a subversion of the typical active heroine, but to what end? There is a lot of points made on morality, but did Austen really feel theatre and Mary Crawford were amoral, after writing Elisabeth Bennet? Also, the (modern?) irony of slave owner Sir Bertram coming home to condemn a play, seemed at both times be too good to be unintentional and so understated that it was accidental. I am happy I found this video, to get some new perspectives. However, I firmly believe that Fanny hates Mary more because of jealousy of Edmund's affection, than because she foresaw Mary being okay with adultery.

[@cminmd0041]

I have always wondered if Jane Austen wrote Fanny based on her sister Casandra. I love the character of Fanny Price but it is hard to understand in modern day. Which is too bad because it is one of the few Austen books without the icky age difference- though it does have the cousin marriage. Yick.

[@Boylit]

Haha .. When I read something written such a long time ago, I try - as best as I can - to kind of time travel and see where the characters come from in their own world and time. Sometimes that means leaving the progress that we have in some areas aside for a minute and accepting the fact that those people lived in very different times with different expectations, thoughts, limits, etc. With that in mind, I find Fanny a very likable and strong character. If she were any more likable or any stronger, I don’t think she would have come across as realistically. But I completely understand if it’s not to everybody’s liking to go through that journey to the past and accept the yicky stuff. Also, I don’t know about Jane’s sister. It’ll be interesting to find out more about her and trace Fanny in her. Thanks!

[@cathipalmer8217]

Fanny Price and Anne Elliott are my favorite Austen heroines. They are mice of steel.

[@merryn96]

I've been reading Jane Austen since I was 8. I suppose that's why I didn't like Mansfield Park when I first attempted to get through it as an 11-year-old. It wasn't as funny as Pride and Prejudice, as relatable as Sense and Sensibility, as engaging as Emma or as short as Persuasion (those adjectives are of course subjective to the kid me and I didn't know Northanger Abbey existed back then, I only read the books from my mum's small personal library). My point of view has changed over the years, I've learned to appreciate it, but my personal favourites are still Emma and Northanger Abbey 😊

[@UncleMo77]

I agree with you. Absolutely.

[@archiewoosung5062]

The idea that Austen painted a sailor in a bad light is an incredible idea...I don't think Fanny's father was a sailor!

[@Boylit]

He was in the marines or in the navy, wasn’t he?

[@mthespinner]

@@Boylit A lieutenant of marines, without education, fortune, or connexions

[@parkviewmo]

The Marines were the small armed element and part of the Royal Navy. In the Master and Commander series, the author gives a good portrait of the role and lesser status of the Marines within the Royal Navy. The line officers moved up to Captain of the ships, but Marines maxed out within their own ranks.

[@topologyrob]

Modernists couldn't cope with Fanny Price being reserved, passive and reflective - that didn't suit the narrative of everything having to push forward and innovate. I think those values are coming again to be valued in the 21st century as we see what a mess was made by that kind of 20th century bustle.

[@katebuckfield7736]

People are not keen on Fanny because she comes across as a goody two shoes. The object of her affection a near sighted goody two shoes. There is very little naughty but nice about about any character.

[@Mikki_93]

I actually like Fanny. She reminds me a lot of myself. I can relate to her in so many ways. It was the plot that drove me insane and I got frustrated so I didn’t finish the book. I rather watch the movie 😬

[@Boylit]

Well the pacing and focus of this is definitely different from Austen's other books, and I understand that it might not be to everyone's taste. I did not find myself gripped by the plot either (compared to P&P or Emma for example), but I enjoyed other aspects of the book just as well. Which film adaptation of the book would you recommend?

[@Mikki_93]

@@Boylit the 1999 movie by Patricia Rozema is great 😊 I love how Fanny is in the movie and the plot is a bit more interesting. But yeah this book is a lot slower than Austen’s other books but I loved Fannys character, she was so interesting and fierce in her own quite way if that makes sense.

[@Boylit]

Thanks. Judging from other comments on this film, it seems like a controversial one (much like the novel itself), so I’ll definitely check it out.

[@isabellearaujo8991]

I think that when Fanny decides not to accept Henry Crawford’s marriage proposal and that beforehand she was not believing his attentions to be anything she is showing us how very smart she truly is, however, when she expresses her feelings over this to Sir Thomas she felt so very childish to me. She has very strong feelings throughout the entire novel but keeps them in check so she won’t get in trouble, right? Whenever she does speak her mind I feel like she does it the worst way possible and it deeply annoys me 😅

[@Boylit]

I think so too. I think her tendency to suppress her feelings or keep them to herself and her inability to express herself well go hand in hand, both stemming from her neglected upbringing and fear of disappointing others-for example by coming across as ungrateful. The irony is that, at the really crucial moments, she does stand up for herself and disappoint others. Maybe if she could express herself better (not that I’d ask that of her because I understand where she’s coming from with her diffidence), they would have appreciated her intelligence and judgment.

[@isabellearaujo8991]

@@Boylit that’s perfect! I think so too

[@panchitaobrian1660]

you definitely need to reread the novel since there are many things you didn´t get from the first time. Funny not being adopted is the first thing here, for example. Just try to pay more attention

[@marysmith5003]

Sir Bertram is a baronet, not a baron.

[@ericaadams2183]

I love Fanny. She’s no Elizabeth, but a great character all the same.

[@Madrid1234apa]

I found that Mansfield Park was slow moving.

[@Boylit]

It is, indeed, compared with Austen’s other novels. But I think that is because Austen was writing about something different here. I understand that may not be to everyone’s liking but I enjoy it :)

[@daisypulling]

Sir, do you have an Instagram? I would love to follow you. Also, update a new video soon! I loved this so much.

[@panchitaobrian1660]

if you think that Fanny was treated like a slave you know nothing about the slavery. And about Regency era. And again, she had no foster parents, you misunderstood the whole situation. Yes, she was abused and neglected, first of all by her biological parents, but her aunts and uncle had no actual obligations towards her. Apart from normal human decency of course but the lack of it is exactly what Austen discusses in the book

[@Katherine_The_Okay]

I feel like Mansfield Park would not be such a controversial novel if it had been written by literally anyone else in the late 1700s and early 1800s. It's just that, even if you've never read any of her other works, you walk into a Jane Austen novel with certain expectations and Mansfield Park subverts every last one of them. This is not a charming comedy of errors, it's a cautionary tale about the consequences of abuse and neglect. It's not a sweet romance, it's a warning that the love of a good woman will *not* actually change a man who doesn't want to change. Arguably, it doesn't even have a happy ending (sorry, but Fanny deserved so much better than Edmund). As for anyone who claims that Fanny doesn't have a backbone, I defy them to show me one person, fictional or real, who realistically could have endured the upbringing she did and still had the backbone to refuse Mr Crawford, and to CONTINUE refusing him under pressure from Sir Thomas, Edmund, and the rest of her family. That's not how neglectful and abusive upbringings work. She should be hard in Learned Helplessness territory and isn't. (In fact, the only criticism of Fanny's character I've seen that I can 100% get behind is that she's maybe a bit TOO strong and unwavering.) I love all of Jane Austen's works (shoot, I'm the kind of history geek who's crying with laughter reading the History of England she wrote as an adolescent), but this and Persuasion are my two favorites because they strike me as being the most realistic. Persuasion wins out over Mansfield park for me by virtue of being more hopeful and more personally relatable. But I think that anyone who's dealt with abuse, neglect, or just with expectations that they be something other than what they actually are, can take a lot away from this novel, if they read it through a different filter than one is generally accustomed to read Jane Austen novels through.

[@ggrother539]

Bronte's character Jane Eyre survived far worse hardship and abuse, refused proposals, was industrious, and would not compromise her integrity for personal reward, or romantic love., Fanny was sheltered in comparison, her loneliness was more familiar. The novel Jane Eyre exposed scandalous abuse at boarding schools- many Lowood type school were actually closed once the novel became popular.The shocking mortality rates each year had been avoidable. . Mansfield Park is a plea for social change. Austen exposed the imposed misery snaking back to its source, Tom wanted an honourable mission, and dignity .Fanny raises a calm and logical argument countering laws imposing slavery . Austen's novel was written to create a dialogue to hasten the end this plague on human rights. Austen wrote Emma to recover from the burden of her profound understanding of the world, outside the drawing room, and as a love letter to her family, friends, and the world. Austen's message is as relevant today as the first day she ' turned her mind to it'. Peace!

[@panchitaobrian1660]

slavery is mentioned, yes, but to call it one of the social problems discussed in the book would be far from the truth

[@seto749]

While I appreciate numerous things about Fanny and often side with her, I fear she's the heroine for diehard conservatives, so that anyone who admires her too strongly frightens me. While she may be closer to perceiving the facts about people, her lens makes her interpretations nearly as wrong as anyone else's.

[@topologyrob]

As a full-on leftist who greatly admires Fanny, I don't really fit your picture too well.

[@seto749]

@@topologyrob Can you at least acknowledge that a gay teen would be much better off with Mary Crawford as a mother instead of Fanny? If so, we can at least get along with relatively minor differences.

[@topologyrob]

@@seto749 Fanny's character is so empathetic and sensitive that I think she'd love and understand the son/daughter, whereas Mary would likely be oblivious.

[@seto749]

@@topologyrob Fanny would be compassionate, but she would still send him off to conversion therapy, especially after Edmund decreed it, or throw him off if he refused to do his duty and marry a woman. Mary would do nothing worse than embarrass him by flirting with his friends, and would be a much better person for anyone in potential legal trouble to have in one's corner.

[@topologyrob]

@@seto749 I think you should re-read the novel - those actions sound like the opposite of what Fanny would do. She never imposes her morality on others, only on herself.

[@kevinrussell1144]

Fanny is a tough-fiber doormat that can absorb a lot of abuse, but she's still a doormat. The book is the LEAST interesting of the completed novels because none of the characters are easy to identify with, and most are unlikeable. Yes, it is a serious story and it is better written than, say, S&S, but the experience of reading it never made me want to repeat it. Even the dude she ends up with doesn't come off with a lot of positives to counteract his liking for skanks and his drip-dry personality. Everyone is entitled to their own assessment, and yours is likely better informed than mine, but you have not persuaded me to give it another go. In fact, I put this one in the same box with Wuthering Heights. They are interesting productions, but the characters are mostly repellent. I don't read to be bored or disgusted, and besides those two characteristics, the Mansfield story is insufficiently novel to sustain enthusiasm.