Manual vs Automatic Off-road

[@clay6765]

I get sleepy driving automatic. Rock crawling in a manual stresses me out though.

[@anomilumiimulimona2924]

Clayton Martinez yea you just gotta smash thru obstacles.

[@siyandabiyela2601]

Lol Clayton u said u get sleepy driving an auto. This to me don't make sense because as you drive e. g on the freeway car is already in top gear which is the same as the manuel would be and when you drive in the city, with an automatic ur constantly applying the brake or the accelerator. I'm trying to understand when do you get sleepy when driving an auto.

[@DEarls-ye9tz]

You can have the big stress or the big snooze. There is no happy medium.

[@DEarls-ye9tz]

@@siyandabiyela2601 Nah, I definitely agree with him here, even if you do spend most of your highway driving in a manual in the highest gear, there's still more of a sense of aloofness and depending on the gearing and your engine power (and where you're driving) you may still need to downshift on the inclines on the highway. I definitely do because my truck is slow and not very powerful but has very advantageous gearing. There's also normal shifting on the highway to slow down or keep pace with traffic and you don't realize how often cars shift on the highway until you have to do manually daily. Automatic is doing all of that thinking and shifting for you and I think because in a general sense you're just less engaged in driving it's easier to get sleepy. I do when I drive autos.

[@clay6765]

Good news is since this comment I have gotten comfortable rock crawling with a stick. I wouldn't have it any other way now!

[@PeterVenkman760]

I have owned both. Manual gets better gas mileage and can be bumped started. Auto is good for towing! Won't burn the clutch! If you drive in traffic you will hate a manual.

[@dieselgeezer18]

i drive in traffic and i don't hate it. It becmes second nature

[@Nessal83]

@@dieselgeezer18 yeah I never understood the traffic argument. I commute 2.5 hours a day in stop and go traffic here in the SF bay. Wouldn't drive an auto if I had the choice. Second nature like you said. Those that complain just aren't good at driving manual.

[@wolfrus1809]

@@Nessal83 I drove 13 hours to Maryland for Christmas got stuck in traffic for about 5 hours mostly uphill with no parking break I had to step on the break for most of that 5 hours my foot was burning..which is why my next truck will be an auto

[@Nessal83]

@@wolfrus1809 christmas is once a year and if your car has a broken parking brake, I'm not sure how that is the fault of a stick shift. Even in an auto, you are still holding that brake pedal down constantly in traffic. My point still stands. I've driven multiple times from CA to Vancouver which is even a longer drive than yours and still will only do it with a stick shift especially for the parts going through the mountains. There is more control and it's second nature. To each their own.

[@SanDiegoOfficial]

@@Nessal83 on a stock clutch but who keeps their stock clutch. Stop and go traffic on aftermarket crush gets tiring

[@jeffbutrum1342]

I was brought up learning to drive a 3-on-the-tree passenger van and as a 16 year old, I thought nothing of manually shifting a transmission in order to make a vehicle move. Not too many years after, it was off to the automatic and smooth shifting bliss. Then, I made a career change and found myself driving 10 speed, manual shift, tractor trailers. Although I continued to drive an automatic in my personal vehicle, I spent years away from the manual and found myself missing the art of shifting. When it came time to replace my '99 Silverado, I moved back into the manual 2017 Jeep Wrangler 6 speed and have never second guessed. To the novice, I'm sure they're a pain in the ass, but to an old timer in his 50's, it's a blast.

[@charlesnew8150]

Beautiful story, thanks for sharing 🙏🏼👍

[@PumpUptheJam81]

Here in North America there is a new phenomenon where thieves cannot drive manual and move on to a different car. True story. + 1 for manual = theft deterrence!

[@Last-Varangian]

Luke Davis LOL! I guess that proves they really are lazy!

[@TheJh4242]

Not all that true though. I got my 5sp Camry nicked.

[@Hello_Im_O]

Hahaha that happened not too long ago here in PR.

[@stphinkle]

I drive a manual car as my daily driver and I live in the USA.

[@AsianRedneck239]

Luke Davis Yeah that’s true. Best advice I have for people with this problem is to lock your doors and don’t leave your keys in your car.

[@Ronny_Dahl]

Apologies for the 360p current quality, it was uploaded as 1080p not sure why KZbin is taking so long the process the video into 1080p (the video size is nearly 2GB) hopefully its done soon.

[@saikkkkkk]

14 hour later still 360p :/

[@The_Opinion_of_Matt]

Ronny Dahl No worries on the quality. I was watching on my phone anyway. As for the subject of the video, I prefer manuals as well for the same reason. Unfortunately in the U.S. we only have 4 trucks and Jeep Wrangler available with a manual transmission. Nissan Frontier, Toyota Tacoma, Chevy Colorado (4 cylinder gas engine only, and RAM 2500 or 3500 with the lower power Cummins 6.7L diesel.

[@drgill84]

Ronny Dahl Love your work m8.. just started taking some vids of my own.. here's one, delete post if you like 👌🏻

[@skumancer]

For some reason, it's also not available on AppleTV or iPhone/iPad.

[@JerseyTom]

3 days later, still 360p... might be time for a re-upload

[@simonsmith9363]

Being partially disabled I have to vote for an Auto box, they allow me to drive more comfortably and for longer. Before my injuries I would have gone for the manual box.

[@jimking2299]

I tore my left calf muscle a few years ago, and for once I was glad to be driving an automatic. I would have been unable to drive for months if I had to use a clutch pedal.

[@DEarls-ye9tz]

Autos are definitely nice because they make cars more accessible to more people.

[@andrewholt7075]

Kinda like in Golf; Prefer to walk, but will take a cart when I can't walk anymore.

[@willhopkins678]

Exactly! I was in same situation

[@tpv59]

ALL the VERY BEST Simon.

[@fordrac1ng81]

After so many years of having both I totally agree with everything in this video. Ronny is a smart dude. I would add if you overland or do a lot of driving in remote areas I would keep an extra starter on board if you drive an automatic. Can't jump or bump a dead starter so the only option is a tow or a ride into town to get a new starter. Cheap insurance.

[@Zerocool818]

Or familiarize yourself with taking it apart and cleaning it out

[@macelius]

Aye, good to have a spare set of brushes at least.

[@Silentway247]

starters can be jumped with a wrench or screwdriver, I do it all the time. My Dad showed me how to do it years ago and there are plenty of videos on youtube that show you how. Offroading 101..

[@keabon]

Marcus Sullivan if the internals of the starter are stuffed, you won't be able to short it out. Won't be able to pull start it if it's an auto either

[@Silentway247]

keabon It happens but completely exceptional. My response was to the comment about not being able to jump a starter and bringing an extra with you, not exceptional cases, but thanks for your 0.02.... If you are that concerned about a starter failing, don't go offroad..that simple.

[@4x2WagonFamily]

I find that people who can drive manual efficiently off road can also drive an automatic with very little effort or training; however, the opposite for automatic drivers.

[@Aron-ru5zk]

Fj40365 I learned to drive in manuals and all my daily cars cars have been manuals but off-road... auto is just better, lock it in first and your set it’s far more enjoyable

[@benjamin-rn5zn]

Fj40365 no crap Sherlock, it takes training to use a clutch properly without stalling it

[@titaniumquarrion9838]

Fj40365 - CAPTAIN OBVIOUS TO THE RESCUE!!!! How many years of research, scientific study and data collection did it take to determine your amazing findings? :-)

[@ClawsoftheLion]

If you start with a manual and work up experience, eventually you should be able to switch to an auto and steer with your knees while leaving your left hand open for burritos and your right for beer. Don't forget, your seat belt makes for a great bottle opener...

[@titaniumquarrion9838]

@chaosfactor333 Wow we are all super impressed with yoru amazing tale of driving dexterity. Perhaps you should write a book about it?

[@welshskies]

I've owned both manual and auto 4x4s and I must confess I far prefer a manual transmission (but I was trained to drive off-road by the British Army); however most modern all terrain vehicles are fitted with automatic gearboxes with so much electronic and computer trickery that they can perform just as well if not better than a manual. So overall I agree with the conclusions reached by Ronny Dahl but I still think driving an auto is too much like playing a video game. 😁

[@Nigriff]

During a water crossing, if you change gears with a manual transmission you risk getting water in the clutch which can cause issues in the future. With an automatic transmission, however, you can change gears or stop driving and no water will find its way into the gearbox. This makes automatic transmissions the better choice for you if you know you’ll be facing a lot of water crossings with your 4×4.

[@johnkemple]

My grandfather was a GM trained transmission specialist. He worked on manuals first, as autos were either non existent, or way too expensive as an option. There was also a 3rd reason. People, they were comfortable with what they were used to, they didnt trust automatics. They were not always as good as they have become. He told me once that if you drove a car round the world continuously the automatic transmission would outlast the car, he said many manual transmissions would wear out due to grease contamination and bearing failure, from the metal parts while the automatic with fluid that is almost all detergent would fair far better. My Father thought he was crazy, he was a truck driver and had one calf muscle almost twice the size of the other from all the clutch work. My dad had a Jeep CJ5 with a 3 speed manual transmission. Every time he was climbing sand dunes (shifting from 1st to 2nd)or blasting down the beach after a summer the clutch would go. My Range Rover classic LWB has 200,000 miles on it's automatic. (2 engines, 1 trans) I change the filter and fluid on schedule. I go to the beach and play in the sand dunes, and my legs are both the same size. One thing you didn't mention, for good reason; is ice, better yet ice on a slight incline. in an auto all you need to do is let off the brake to have forward movement. None of that heel toe stuff you have with the manual. I have had both, in many different types and brands of 4x4's. The automatic of today is far superior to those of yesterday. The manual is quite the dinosaur. For off road both can do it and both can perform well but the automatic is just plain better. Great job trying to explain the difference though. good luck out there no matter what trans you may run!

[@FalconMe]

ill pick the dinosaur any day

[@patricktaylor5165]

john Kemple has

[@theflipflopfabshop]

Christopher White err wrong fj80 is

[@Chau-Y]

I have an automatic xterra. Low gear is just not enough to go safely downhill on steep ones. You have to use brakes. Luckily it doesnt snow here else I think its a disaster. While in a manual you dont need to use brakes at all if you are in low. The vehicle crawls down safely. Automatic transmission might be more durable but in challenging terrain it can get you killed.

[@gilibran]

@@Chau-Y Depending on how steep the descent is you might need to shift up in a manual depending on how your car is geared even in low gear. I had to descent in 2nd even 3th gear mostly in my Wrangler TJ with 4:10 gearing because in first gear the wheels turned to slow, gravity took over and you would still be sliding down. If you have to shift up halfway a descent you could be in more serious trouble faster then a to speedy descent in an automatic. Overall downhill is still harder in an automatic todo right because less engine breaking and you have to learn to use those breaks to the point where they slow the vehicle enough but keep the wheels turning.

[@jimking2299]

Great, informative presentation. Thanks. From my Canadian point of view, I could have used a segment on snow, but I guess that's not a big concern of yours. Personally, I love a manual in most situations because of the incredibly precise control you have over power delivery with proper co-ordination of throttle and clutch. I don't care for the lag and surge of an automatic, which is especially troublesome in snow.

[@shadow105720]

The mud section covers most if not all of snow conditions too.

[@gemini2261]

I always considered 4WDriving to be done in a manual, I can appreciate how advanced and strong the autos are now. Even so and being a 60 year old female and love to cruise with an auto, I think I will still stick with a manual for my next 4WD purchase. Great video 👍🏽

[@Nigriff]

During a water crossing, if you change gears with a manual transmission you risk getting water in the clutch which can cause issues in the future. With an automatic transmission, however, you can change gears or stop driving and no water will find its way into the gearbox. This makes automatic transmissions the better choice for you if you know you’ll be facing a lot of water crossings with your 4×4.

[@TheNotaRubicon]

When I bought The NotARubicon I only planned on doing some occasional dirt roads and mud so I got a manual because it was a good deal. Now that i'm into more extreme off-roading and rock crawling I WISH I had an automatic. Now the only advantage I see to the manual (that matters) is being able to make fun of the people in the automatics saying that REAL Jeeps are manuals and they take more skill.

[@charliereynolds3404]

how many people on this planet do you hear say “I can’t drive stick” compared to I auto? Lolol proof is in the puddin

[@andrewb.5996]

Great video Ronny. I've driven both for 30 years. At my time in life...at 50....it's auto all the way. Less stress on the old knee joint mate! Andrew.

[@texasslingleadsomtingwong8751]

That's my huge issue keeping me out of one of my vehicles. It only takes 30 to 45 minutes and my knee starts voicing it's opinion .

[@Speartheman]

He gave us an answer! Videos usually just give it a tie and say "you decide!"

[@mattf6598]

I love my stick but I find myself apologizing to my clutch more than I'd like to when I'm doing steep uphill starts or climbing obstacles. She hasn't worn out yet though! Love my Isuzu Rodeo!

[@benzbordz6183]

I came from driving school. My teacher said we must to learn first in hard which is manual before you go to easy driving which is automatic.

[@auladepiano]

Automatic.... Hand on your girl's leg all the time... Manual.... Hands on that corner...

[@DEarls-ye9tz]

Well, I don't have a girl so manual's fine I guess. 😭

[@schnoonglaandiageckeler187]

Haha dudes who drive auto dont have girlfriends 😂😂

[@jegr3398]

Just let your girl grab the shaft

[@dmitriyshymko422]

Grab your shaft*

[@taylorc2542]

Teach a girl to drive a stick in the Wal-mart parking lot after a good date and she'll drive your stick when you drop her off. They love that shit.

[@RubiconUnlimited]

dont forget: manual - anti theft from millennials. auto - keep a sandwich in your right hand.

[@BHIArgentina]

Or in the left hand if you're Aussie... XD

[@RubiconUnlimited]

BHI haha you're right!

[@tasmanmcmillan1777]

Every millennial I know drives manual???

[@adamdixon2251]

Yoy heard about the young punks that car jacked a granny in Aus. they got in the drivers seat then realised it wsas manual and as retards they couldn't drive it so walked away

[@jarodthorman9161]

it's not millennials. its anyone who grew up near a city. because city driving with a stick sucks people assume you have an automatic so the pull up inches from you tailgate. and they don't care that you're on a hill.

[@artnoll]

I've found the best solution: one of each!

[@criticalpanda6172]

That's me. And im a broke college student lmao

[@cakestalker]

For the every day car automatic is fine, but I would definitely have a manual in a sportscar.

[@Propapanda0213]

aka DCT

[@meerkat8090]

I would like to own a manual and automatic truck for off road, it would be awesome to be able to switch between the two if I wanted to go over landing one day or rock crawling the next

[@driftmunkey]

Same, got an 88 manual 4runner and a 2020 TRD off road 4runner auto as a daily.

[@jeffreyk8888]

I'll pick manual every time

[@orionslaver432]

Best to learn in a manual - it makes you a better driver - but let's be honest, auto is where it's at most of the time.

[@willmcc05]

Learn to drive on the road in an auto at first then a manual for the rest of your learning

[@brandydejesus1675]

Team manual since I was 15. Awesome and informative video though bro 👍🏿👌🏿

[@WTRGK]

Manual's awesome. So much more entertaining to drive.

[@chuckcribbs3398]

My duaghter (16) is buying a 2004 Honda Civic manual tomorrow. I grew up with all kinds of manuals (five speed, three on the tree) and although she's being a little apprehensive she's looking forward to it. And all the guys at school are saying how cool she is going to be. Wish her luck. I told her in a day she'll be fine. I'll teach her well. It's all about the clutch!

[@miwuksniper]

Are you married? Haha jk that’s awesome!

[@410kane]

I purchased a Mitsubishi outlander sport with a 5 speed manual also equiped with hill start assist. Best decision I've ever made. I run from cvt automatics like the plague.

[@alexkostiuk8246]

I've been driving my dad's semis and changing gears since I was 13. Its not as hard as some make it out to be

[@curtismalaise3515]

I have 5 speed manual.just started off-roading.learned alot from this video.didnt know about shifting in water will get on clutch plate.very helpful

[@varazkhartoum]

Very clear explanation Ronny, I pretty much agree with you. I fancy the stick shift more in a faster car but when it comes to commuting and terrain I am a lazy driver and I prefer automatic.

[@Jessetheoutdoorman]

Millennial with a manual here. My first car was a manual, so naturally, I had to get a manual Tacoma and I could not be happier.

[@dieselgeezer18]

I believe that all those downhill assists are crap. Off road is all about having fun not just watching the car going downhill.

[@mushstash7660]

Exactly I’m 17 I want to have fun 4wheeling by myself not having the car do it then what’s the point of it, its supposed to be challenging and fun I’m not a old or lazy person. There is such thing as too easy.

[@dieselgeezer18]

@@mushstash7660 exactly

[@nirfz]

May i chime in a bit late with an examle? Last month i had to go up and down a little mountain here in the alps with our company Touareg (not the current gen, we got one with a center and rear diff lock and low range ect). 2/3s of the year the road is 20% asphalt and 80% gravel. But during winter it's usually 100% snow. So i put the Touareg into "Offroad" as i figured steep up and downhill on snow is kind of what the VW programmers would count as offroad. Uphill not much of an event. Downhill the Hill descent controll immediately interferred with my intended version of driving. And i couldn't get the damn "hill descent control" to switch off without going way too fast. (it switches off above a certain speed i think) I had to switch to "on road" in the driving mode to be able to use engine breaking like i wanted to. This way i could let the car roll down in a gear i chose at a comfortable speed without slipping and without using the brakes other than for serpentines. With the steepness and the length down, i expect the breaks to overheat when it's constantly using them with the hill descent control. (it has a LED indicating when it apllies breaks and it was constantly flashing for the short period unti i figured what i could do) Oh, and no it doesn't have an HDC Off button. (at least i couldn't find one) So i absolutely support the comment that these assists are crap. Not just for fun, but when you know what you are doing, they can be a p.i.t.a. and interfere annoyingly. (I've got another story with a lane keep assist that caused a dangerous situation at 130kph, but that's a different topic)

[@dixy2k]

You can use engine braking in an automatic car too. I do it all the time going down hill. Try not to portray the manual tranny as operating in an on/off mode. At least that's how you come across describing it. You can do uphill starts without any issue in a manual. Heel to toe technique, emergency brake use. A torque converter acts as a multiplier of gears, so you end up having a lower gearing with an automatic. Also, at idle the automatic tranny is not "off" or disconnected from the engine, it still spins and creates pressure, which causes no delay in the response. You can also drive it with two feet, one on the brake and the other on the accelerator. By slightly revving the engine while still stationary, you create more pressure in the converter therefore eliminating and faint idea of a delay described in the video.

[@chrisstevens-oy3rh]

D. Alex Oprea spot on. i have auto and manual 4x4 and both do just as good if you no how to drive off road, but i cant agree more on the beach work in the soft stuff with an auto

[@Tgiles13]

Manual cause my partner cant drive it 😂

[@Wrangzilla]

Tamlin Giles I went to buy a new Jeep back in the early 2000’s and my when GF said she couldn’t wait for me to get rid of the old TJ manual I had and get an auto so she could drive it, I quickly bought a manual. She wasn’t happy because she couldn’t drive it....

[@kelvinelrick807]

Haha... savage.

[@siyandabiyela2601]

Tamlin 🤣that's totally savage

[@AnarchyEnsues]

Jokes on you, rather have a beer and sit in the passenger seat

[@bingcringing]

Ok

[@karena-keithjensen6662]

I agree with most of everything that was covered in this video. I learned to drive with a manual. Drove tractor trailer in the USA for many years all Manuel transmissions. However one thing that I didn’t see you cover is the torque multiplication that takes place at low speed in an automatic transmission. The torque converter multiplies engine torque roughly 2.5 times at slow speeds. And being a professional truck driver I prefer automatic in my personal vehicles.

[@carscigarsscotchnwatches5158]

Excellent, well thought out video. I much prefer manual transmissions for on road driving, but I prefer auto's for off road driving. One thing not often talked about for off road driving is the crawl ratio and stall. A manual trans needs to have a very high crawl ratio in order to lessen stall when climbing up sketchy places. An auto can have a lower crawl ratio, but due to it's slush, it will not stall in a precarious situation. Another advantage to an auto for off road driving is that when your attention needs to be on a narrow pass with a cliff drop, you do not need to be worrying about your clutch and shifting.

[@danfox1458]

The clutch is not an on/off switch it's a progressive switch so you get more control in a Manual than an automatic

[@Dexter_Solid]

This wears out the clutch drastically, and autos you can brake stand to control over objects, build power in the engine and use the brake to control your speed. this can hurt an auto if too much heat is built though not nearly as bad as feathering a clutch.

[@danfox1458]

Not as much as you think a clutch's life span is on avg 50,000 mi Clutches wear out. In fact, it's common for a clutch to be replaced before a car reaches the end of its lifespan. That's because clutches experience a certain amount of wear and tear in the normal course of use. Predicting how long a clutch will last, however, is like solving a complex equation with lots of variables. Any of those variables can make a big difference in how the equation comes out. You'll hear stories about clutches that last more than 100,000 miles (160,934 kilometers) and other stories about clutches that wear out in less than 30,000 (48,280 kilometers). So feathering a clutch will wear it out but you will only probable take 500 mi off it.

[@snoopdogie187]

I seriously have no idea where you get the average clutch lasts 50,000 miles. Maybe this is the average for people that can't use the clutch correctly, i don't know. But anyone that drives a manual transmission car correctly gets a lot more than 50,000 miles. Maybe 50,000 is the average now because most of the time, when I hear a manual car pull away from a stop they are riding the clutch too long. You can hear the engine get up in rpms pretty quickly and they are barely moving and then suddenly they release the clutch all at once and the rpms drop. I would say the average is over 100,000 unless you are abusing it.

[@phantomwalker8251]

what is that first comment,i think he got it wrong,manuals have lag when changing,dont care how good you are,autos have non,plus 1st to rev is easier for bogs.a decent auto will far outlast a manual,plus when you pop the clutch in mud water,where does it go,??,in your clutch.autos are sealed.backward experts,uhgg.

[@mattf6598]

I've got 200k+ and I'm still driving the original clutch. Only your teenage daughter would trash your clutch by 50k miles...

[@Redneck_Technophile]

For most off-roading situations, I find that the better transmission is simply the one you have more experience with. Even for things like steep hills where automatics are undoubtedly better from a technical standpoint, I still find a manual to be easier. However, this is only because every vehicle I’ve owned and the vast majority of those that I’ve driven have all been manual. It’s easier than an automatic for me simply because it’s what I have the most experience using.

[@91081166116]

auto: more torque in low rpm smoother ride on bumpy track (less responsive throttle) more leg room manual: more instant power, thus better for power drifting and burn outs so I'd call it even

[@acedogboy8421]

thats wrong... auto have less power than manual. 15% powertrain loss m vs autos 20% and also the auto tc acts as a clutch so yea.. manual is better for torque

[@ivanfromtheeast4709]

ACE DOGBOY also often times it’s like a 6 speed manual vs a 4 speed automatic and first gear in a 6 speed is lower than first in an automatic

[@jarkkoseppanen899]

@@ivanfromtheeast4709 4-speed auto? mine's a 6-speed, and that's old. modern autos have 8-speeds.

[@ivanfromtheeast4709]

Jarkko Seppänen in the older jeeps that are more common in the states they are 4 speed auto or 5/6 speed manual

[@dieselgeezer18]

you are wrong. Autos don't have good low end torque because there are losses in the transmission fluid. To prevent these losses a clutch locks in and prevents that but at low RPM they don't have as good torque as a manual

[@isqdesig]

What about use de brake as a "clutch" on the automatic? I mean, press the brake and accelerate until the engine forces agains the brakes, than release the brake on demand to have a better control.

[@DylanC828]

You’ll burn the piss out of your trans by doing that repetitively. There’s still clutches and steels inside, autos usually only last 150-250k miles, doing that you’d be in the shop quite often and that’s $$$

[@jamesglenn520]

Always drive an automatic with both feet while off roading. Sometimes you need skinny pedal and fat pedal at the same time!! 👍

[@sjgerber]

Big dunes Mud and down hills Depends on the automatic - the A518 46 RH in my Jeep, You can keep it in the gear you want it. I did have a transgo heavyduty upgrade done, with shift command option. plus it is hydraulically controlled - no computer interference

[@kennethlogan2230]

GREAT VIDEO! The Chief Concept in my Mind...In the end, the primary job of my rig is to get me home. Can you say that an automatic (perhaps a Toyota with high miles, going thru some of the terrain you spoke about which means alot of abuse and heat)... will that Transmission get you home? I have owned 30 cars and trucks and every Automatic I have owned has quit on me necessitating a tow home... I have never needed a tow home home in a manual - AND that speaks to my first statement : If you were out on your own and 5 days out in the bush (from any place that can help you) what transmission would you pick??

[@tonesbones502]

Great vid, good work. In the vid however it appears you don't realize that in many new automatics, such as the hilux etc, you can move your auto shifter to the right and bang the gears up or down as you please. The car will hold the gear you chose.

[@tonesbones502]

Gee wiz Harry, lets get a few things straight here, 4x4 auto's have not been like that since day dot. Using an example such as the hilux wasn't an attempt to promote the brand. And lastly your reluctance to consider a Japanese manufactured car based on the fact that their cars are 25yrs behind the times is an amazing comment to make. Thanks for your interesting comments Harry, were you drunk?

[@rytonhunt]

I just brought an auto pajero and I have to say this was a really non biased take on both types of transmissions and I have to thank you for taking the time. Especially for new 4x4 people like myself and many others out there...... CHEERS 🤟

[@DaneF1]

Manual always. Automatics bore me.

[@lukehibbird563]

I like to eat chips and shapes while 4 wheeling so Auto for me haha, I had a zuk sierra a few years ago it's definitely strange going from an auto to manual off road lots of fun though.

[@montanawhite5699]

Luke Hibbird that's the only thing I like about automatics, way easier to snack and drive.

[@mrdumbdumb1147]

Luke Hibbird Hahahahah 😂

[@liamvaughan9499]

Luke Hibbird just have a mate next to you working the stick when you tell him to

[@Robert-goose1]

Manuals are a pain in the ass. I refuse to shift to first, push the gas, release the gas, hit the clutch, shift gears, release clutch, hit the gas, release gas, and do it over and over until I'm at my desired speed.

[@chabka34]

if you are handy I feel like a manual will way outlast an automatic and a clutch is $200 to replace and will last about 150-200,000

[@mattf6598]

I guess I'm over the hill then. :)

[@smh9902]

I can get a clutch kit for my 1969 C10 for 90 dollars.

[@piotrlauzer6337]

Its not the part price that hurts. Replacing the clutch requires a lot of work - about 3-4 hours. And theres no way a clutch could survive 200000km off road with a newbie driver.

[@92powerdiesel61]

Yes it will, and it'll last about 150,000 mi and all the clutches that I've seen are under $200

[@window8995]

You dont need to be handy

[@borkonikolcic6260]

I did a bit of off road in both. I did grow up driving manual which I love and respect. But' ZF8 auto gives me great off road ability. As long as you get it with "tow package" heavy duty engine and transmission cooling radiators. Again' I do like manual transmission as well' as long as crawl ratio is 80+:1 as is in Jeep Rubicon 6 speed manual.

[@scottshumaker653]

old post but i grew up with manual aand swear by it but now I am 60 and simply do not want to shift anymore.. this is afterall 2018

[@MaZEEZaM]

Especially in general traffic conditions.

[@reginaldwingfield6514]

John Atkins .

[@mushstash7660]

Well automatics are made for old people and fat lazy people🤷🏽‍♂️

[@fernandoreal4026]

Automatic: the car drives you. Manual: you drive a car. ...the choice is yours.

[@CCc-ve2yj]

I think most need auto had to get lots of people unstuck

[@Denali_Rebel]

If I’m getting an auto I might as well just buy a Tesla

[@gruesomeloki]

In old school 4x4s sure, there's no computers controlling wheel speed just old fashioned engineering. Just don't see why you would buy a new vehicle with a manual box.

[@Denali_Rebel]

@@gruesomeloki because I want to drive my car and not have my car drive me. I have driven a lot of new auto vehicles and they all search for gears while I’m driving. I don’t have that when I’m driving a manual.

[@andrewcamus4349]

I'll go for the manual transmission

[@micedevice2389]

I’ve being riding manual 4x4 for 25 years and switched to an automatic for the first time in my life....maybe I’m just getting old. Anyway, for the city automatic wins hands down, but for off roading, I’m not sure yet (haven’t tried it enough though)

[@aaronmahanga7635]

Thanks for the info, for me I'm going with manual but I would have to fit a heavy duty clutch for towing and maybe upgrade the brakes.

[@doy3906]

Firstly transmission designs and specifications change a lot. A 3 speed manual with a dual gearbox off roader is great. But having more speed options can make them less durable. It is not fun to drive in the highway but it is not expected to perform as well on smooth roads since they are a lot heavy. Automatics can be designed with manual downshifts and all time 4 drive. They are more fuel hungry but on the highway, they can be faster. You can still override the auto function with manual options like low and high speed driving up and down hill.

[@rayss3323]

I prefer a manual for street driving and generally an automatic off road - tho I do miss compression braking. When it comes to newer autos tho, I beg to differ on the mileage. Newer autos, especially with 10 speeds do very well, and often clock better ¼ mile times too.

[@dlg5485]

I think you reached the same 'split decision' that most people would. As a lifelong manual driver, I will probably opt for an auto in my next truck, a 2020 Tacoma, simply because I plan on doing a lot more challenging offroading in the future and I don't want to be wearing out clutches all the time. Plus, I know my skill level and I don't want to be "white knuckling" with my a-hole puckered when I should be having fun. Offroading in an auto is plenty challenging enough for me. I don't have anything to prove to anyone, I'm too old for that shit.

[@Bush_Tucker]

Depends on if you actually want to drive a vehicle or just press the start stop pedal

[@grantmctaggart9942]

That Aussie Bloke r/gatekeeping

[@om617yota8]

Love my manuals. For the driving I do 99.9% of the time, on and off road, it suits me perfectly. For the last 0.01% of the time, it does well enough to get me through just fine. I've yet to drive an auto that didn't downright piss me off by shifting at the wrong time. A manual? By some miracle, it's always in exactly the gear I want it to be in.

[@richnegs5828]

I love my rig.. I love manuals... my fiancé can’t drive a manual. I’ve seen how she drives... I got a manual. 👍

[@davidgodsey3422]

Smart man

[@chinhvu3918]

Many men don’t drives the cars

[@Adrenalfix]

I really enjoyed this one, thankyou, confirmed most of my thoughts, especially auto on the beach, I have a very entry level, fwd/awd ford escape ( to cheap to not buy ) that I finally used on the beach recently, and once the tyres were down, it did pretty good, except for trying to climb into the dune basins from the beach. Looking forward to more content

[@SyEnsability]

Nice summary. I would add vehicle size. Manual is easier with a small, light vehicle; harder with a big heavy one. Inertia. Which really boils down to power to weight ratio. 2. Automatics are typically heavier than manuals. 3. Automatics are typically easier to damage than manuals. I've rescued fluid loss automatics, but not manuals. Thanks again. Good summary.

[@reubs91]

I have a 79 series and a auto wildtrak for work. I secretly like to drive the auto a lot more, even when 4wding

[@Dexter_Solid]

Only thing I disagree on is the fuel economy, oddly your first point. Most, again, modern autos lock instantly in each gear after first. Final overdrive is usually more agressive maybe a .7 or .6 to 1, whereas a manual might be be .8 or .9. This is where your fuel economy will come from. One thing to mention also is that autos are lighter and stronger than manuals are, planetary gears have no thrust compared to a manual with a main and counter shaft that loads the gear box case itself. so manual transmissions are made heavier to compensate. I just prefers autos because honestly clutching and rowing 18 gears isn't something I want to do outside of work.

[@worldhello1234]

"I just prefers autos because honestly clutching and rowing 18 gears isn't something I want to do outside of work." You don't use 18 gear in a offroad vehicle. "Only thing I disagree on is the fuel economy, oddly your first point. Most, again, modern autos lock instantly in each gear after first. Final overdrive is usually more agressive maybe a .7 or .6 to 1, whereas a manual might be be .8 or .9. " You have a better control about the fuel consumption in a manual. It is not about hypermileing in overdrive. That is not how the standardised fuel consuption is determined. "One thing to mention also is that autos are lighter and stronger than manuals are, planetary gears have no thrust compared to a manual with a main and counter shaft that loads the gear box case itself. so manual transmissions are made heavier to compensate." Now we enter fanboy territory with a lot of non sequitur in it. :D

[@48sydney]

Very good and logical video. Have you considered comparison of an Off road 4WD with no electronics and an Off road with CPU and lots of relays ? My preference would be ZERO electronics and a Manual Diesel 4WD vehicle.

[@gadgetman_nz4092]

I tend to find the automatics give better fuel economy than manuals when doing a lot of open road driving. Typically at open road speeds the auto is doing about 1000rpm less than the manual. I've also found the lack of initial momentum bit you mention doesn't add up with the manual over the auto. The engine is still ticking over and should be set that it is trying to turn the wheels unless you have your foot on the brake. That and the quick gear changes with the auto is why they tend to be a bit quicker off the mark, but the direct drive of the manual I find gives more responsive performance at higher speeds. Yes, I agree that auto's are generally better, but I much prefer, and drive, a manual.

[@akaroamale475]

Thanks for your very good sum up of the options, I really enjoy your videos. I would have thought there was very little difference between the auto and manual in low 1st on the down hill, but I bow to your experience. I have done many hours both privately and in a professional capacity, always in a manual. I now drive an auto SR5 Hilux and I would not go back to a manual if you paid me to. It took a while but I now have the feeling, through the gear box, that I thought I might not get. If I ever get over to Perth I will be looking you up on the chance I could tag along on a trip some time. Cheers

[@sorrrbet4923]

With your point on 'selecting gears,' a lot of dedicated Semi-Auto gearboxes allow full control up or down, without being locked into the gear. Sure, you can't go from 5th to 3rd, but you can quickly skip through 4th for the same effect.

[@johnmead9610]

Those will shift out of gear and move up if you're rpm's stay high for too long. Unless they have shift lock. SMg and triptronic is dumb. Toyota tundras have 1 and 2 but will not stay in 1 or 2 if it redlines. If you have shift lock(limited) and add rev limiter throttle control ect will stop that. But a manual will always stay in 1 or 2. And can clutch and rev out of shitty slides. And if you are stuck you can always rev up and dump that fucker out of almost anything. Plus. A rear locker and a stick you don't even need 4x4 most of the time. Automatics he, even says it in this video halfway though about this, I will always shift up and down without your control when you redline or it senses a drop in rpms and shift down on you. When you're in mud sand or water you do not want to shift and stay at 2k to 2500 rpms and 20mph constantly. Too low you get stuck and sink. Too much and your gonna spin sink and get stuck.....I don't know how many times I thanked god I had a stick shift on my ranch road. Sliding sideways on turn and can gun that fucker and point toward the curve and you blast out. Automatic, you stomp you'll go. Then it shifts on you and you bog. Just get a manual.

[@MyMuschilover]

Manual trans is better for water crossings, because even if water enters the trans if will still function and the oil can easily be changed in remote places. In an auto, a little bit of water will contaminate everything and basically ruin the clutches and bands + you need to carry 10liters of proper atf to remedy this situation. The only problem is that water shortens the release bearing's life and can make the clutch slip when submerged.

[@Last-Varangian]

fukthegoog Same way you would a manual; i.e. through a VERY bad gasket, a leaking yoke seal, some kind of case damage or through the case breather. The most likely is the breather, followed by the yoke seal.

[@richterman3962]

MyMuschilover autos don't have clutch

[@tobiasburen8340]

@@richterman3962 They have! Some have dry, some have wet ones but all have a clutch.

[@klubcj]

The real reason you drive Manual is, The 79 series only come with a manual.

[@roughgooch7859]

There’s actually a few blokes getting around with converted autos from the 200 series land cruiser

[@austinbell1044]

​@Christopher White if you want to go to the outback get a land rover, if you want to comeback from the outback get a land cruiser

[@thunderbear0]

Lmao thats true 79 is my dream truck and auto are easier and better even though i like manual but i wish Toyota add auto in these beautiful beasts

[@CR3W1SH03S]

'87 YJ with a stick, 190K miles and totaled with a good clutch still. '96 Grand Cherokee, burned up 3 automatics in 200K miles. My current '14 JK, 170K miles still on the original clutch. Mild wheeling with all 3 as they were all daily drivers. I will never own another automatic... ever.

[@tomschannel5380]

These Days I would say it is just a matter of preference... I can drive both comfortable off the road without any trouble... the delay in the takeoff I can't agree much on with modern vehicles - as it will be near nil for most vehicles... The newer generation of auto transmissions have come a long way - and it is quite enjoyable to drive one. One of he most important things to remember and maybe to teach/educate people about would be that you have to drive them differently... you need to be aware of what your technology is capable of and how to use it to it to it's full potential. I personally prefer the auto transmission these days as I can control the torque to a very high extend. But as I said - these days - personal preference... ;)

[@bigsamdog1]

You make too much sense. No put down or involvement in a comment fight. What a breath of fresh air.

[@jeffsama7601]

Thanks bro but I think I will stick to manual.Makes me feel like I'm actually driving

[@rolandojrcantores7553]

It depends on the driver if your clutch lining lasts or not. It doesn't depend on the transmission

[@lcdubs7847]

Love your videos! I agree, a manual is more fun, even if an auto is easier. One place where the manual has a real advantage is when you're stuck and rocking the vehicle to try and get out. In snow or mud this is especially important. A manual is 100% better than an auto in these situations.

[@xmacleod]

I experienced something similar once. I have never bought an automatic so this surprised me at the time: Had a friend with a GMC Jimmy get stuck on deep, loose gravel near a creek. I thought she just lacked throttle discipline or something, so I hopped in to give it a go. Problem was, as you eased on the throttle, the engine would slowly rev, but the transmission wouldn't really engage immediately. I know automatics tend to just go forward on their own a little bit without throttle, but that wasn't enough on its own, and by the time it put any extra torque to the wheels at all, it was too much and it just spun the tires and dug holes. I eventually got it out by cranking the steering left and right until it wiggled out. I was dying for a clutch pedal, though.

[@arieksk]

can't beat automatic gear on the bumper to bumper traffic on the hilly road..

[@bt4350]

Give yourself some space in front, leave it in first gear, and let everyone else do that bumper to bumper bullshit.

[@JFTM_]

+B T I drive a hilux and a corolla, both Manual. You'll never see me any closer than 2 meters behind another car. Hate it when idiots just pull up right in your clacker and expect you to not roll back.

[@recless8667]

I disagree. For me, it's about the same. I leave a little bit more room (probably a meter or two extra), and just stick to 1st through 3rd gear, letting the engine slow me down. Sure, I have to shift. I barely need to brake though (only when traffic is under 10 kph).

[@jshaw6600]

Manual uphill is a pain. Leave enough space, and people cut in front of you. I've boiled clutch fluid in an hour long traffic going up a mountain. Been daily driving manual with an aftermarket clutch for 4 years.

[@agronomic-consultant7653]

my life right thea ..

[@billhamilton6985]

I’ve been wheeling through all the states for 40 years and have owned both. Every beginner should watch this video!!!!!!!!! Spot on and brilliant!!!

[@lukebrinsmead]

I like the entertainment, challenge and control of a manual, it makes me feel like I have a closer connection with the vehicle. For me it’s also nostalgic, it takes me back to driving my parents manual 60 series.

[@soulhunterdhems9753]

When you have a 4x4 off road the best is manual, when city driving automatic

[@santiagomatamoros7885]

Is there love at first sight? Yes! I fell in love with manual transmission as a kid watching my older cousin working the gears.

[@jerryemt2001]

Great vid. Manual off /on roader here. I do find it funny that when you refer to the stick you pantomime with your left hand. Ah, the idiosyncrasies of the Land Down Under

[@Jabooty_Williams]

cant blame him though. being upside down makes the blood rush to your head. poor feller gets his right and left confused because of it.

[@coccvideo]

Good review. With my experience around the world with all kind of roads I prefer automatic only on highway and manual everywhere else.

[@dieselgeezer18]

manual is easier on highway than everywhere else because you don't have to change gears

[@toddhoffmaster6057]

I agree with your answers 100%. Keeping an automatic cool is the number 1 priority at all times and that can be hard to do on sand and when driving long hills and pavement mountain roads. Brakes will definitely last longer on a properly driven manual.

[@brucegibson5425]

I don't know why most manufacturers use a big enough oil tranny cooler. Easy enough fix though.

[@JAKEWJONES]

You did a great job explaining the difference. In my 33 years on the road, I have only had one automatic vehicle and I am with you on the manual trans.

[@Spacegoat92]

I just did a 4wd day up through some rocky steep hills the other day. My vehicle is a manual Turbo Diesel and while it performed quite well, there were a couple of spots where i would have really preferred the auto box. Coming downhill, though having that control with the manual was fantastic. You're not gonna win them all.

[@Nigriff]

During a water crossing, if you change gears with a manual transmission you risk getting water in the clutch which can cause issues in the future. With an automatic transmission, however, you can change gears or stop driving and no water will find its way into the gearbox. This makes automatic transmissions the better choice for you if you know you’ll be facing a lot of water crossings with your 4×4.

[@Spacegoat92]

@@Nigriff Unless you neglect to have elevated breathers. It only takes a tiny bit of water to destroy an auto. Plus if you damage a cooling line or oil cooler you're stranded.

[@JeepTJWheelin]

Had an '05 TJ Rocky Mtn manual and now have an auto '08 JK X. Pros & cons with each. Overall my '08 JK X has been the much better Jeep. In fact, this 2 door JK is by far the best vehicle I've owned.

[@anulfadventures]

I always preferred the manual for the "choices" or combinations the manual gives you. Autos only seemed to have "fast", that is you control through your right foot, which means wheel spin when you don't want it. One you're first topic, I always understood that autos were easier on fuel that standards. They change gears more consistently than an operator of the standard.

[@rushthezeppelin]

Older sticks are generally more efficient than older autos. Newer ones yes the gap has narrowed (or flipped). Also sticks were more reliable than autos back in the day. They still are much cheaper to service and fix.

[@sasquatchrosefarts]

This is totally wrong. A person with a moderate amount of experience on a manual, who can sense when pressing on the gas pedal makes the vehicle go faster, vs just burning gas.... is always going to get better mileage than an auto with more weight and complexity. You literally feel the vehicle, you feel the vibrations and you feel the depth of the gas pedal, and the sound. And watch tacometer. When you go up a hill, there is a sweet spot where the tacometer is just high enough on rpm to have steady torque..... and you press the gas pedal just firm enough so the vehicle drives well, but not pressing so much on the gas that the pedalmwinks closer to the floor while the vehicle isnt moving faster.

[@saha6818]

One thing I like about manual transmissions is the ability to rock myself out of some obstacles. I find that auto transmissions shift too slowly for me to take advantage of the momentum (harmonic motion).

[@ΑΡΗΣΚΟΡΝΑΡΑΚΗΣ]

it's depending on the shift patern

[@heiko272]

saha6818 I got my '95 F150 out of a ditch during a snowstorm thanks to that technique. I would have been walking home if it had an automatic.

[@ZenMinus]

Auto's do that easier and quicker, maybe you're not doing it right?

[@jarelnomeh2345]

I don't suppose he has much experience with snow. But rocking a car makes a huge difference in the white stuff.

[@jarelnomeh2345]

No, they don't. In a manual you clutch in and instantly stop the wheels from driving forward, which lets the car roll back. When you get off throttle in an auto, there is still a good bit of torque going through, so you're not rolling back as well as in neutral. But shifting into neutral isn't as instant as clutching in a manual. When you need to go forward again, you just dump the clutch = instant torque at the wheels. If the auto is in gear, you have slippage in the tranny and don't get the most power right away. If you're in N and have to go to D first, that's even longer.

[@WBOS72]

Manual for me.

[@reinierrooi5650]

Thanks Ronny, no music, and you speak clearly, and you explained good !

[@theaxeman8492]

Hey Ronny! Thanks for all of the great videos mate! Seeing the format of this video - would you do an off-road driving tips video for both manual and automatic for each type of terrain? Just very general and easy to remember strategies / techniques / tips that would be easy to remember in a summary format? Rock crawling, steep hill ascent and descent, mud, sand, water crossings, etc? 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 Thanks mate.

[@floflo8018]

wading preparations: -ease your fan belt as to not drive it's blades into the radiator when it hits water you may also cover the grid to avoid mud being pushed in the radiator -plug the clutch housing drain (it doesn't pater if you con't touch your pedal in water if dirty water enter the housing it's get to the disc) -plug or schnorkel all gearbox transfer box and axle breather water getting in those is not to good 8 perfectionists will also protect their batteries if these are not maintenance free airtight batteries (not sure if even those are free of vents)

[@BrianM0OAB]

I like my auto cause I'm a lazy bugger :) last 3 Range Rovers that I have taken off road, have been auto with a v8 petrol up front, agree on everything you brought up especially on the down hill with auto's tending to run off on ya a bit even if it is held in 1st low :) a little cadence braking helps keep it reasonable.

[@alanwrench8172]

Quality debate ! I prefer old reliable Toyota pickup 5spd and dual cases for that extra low range rock crawling.

[@Scablands_Scavenger]

I prefer A manual for hardcore off-roading... but an auto for driving in traffic and when I am in the mountains sight seeing/exploring and looking for animals. Both have benefits and a good driver can overcome the deficiencies of either system.

[@dorinbarbu968]

Know your vehicle and adapt your skill.

[@raynerlauder8226]

We stay in Africa, we have four Land Cruiser J76, one has Automatic, it can not reach the others, when the things are getting hard!

[@joelletendre1011]

Good video. A few things though. A modern fuel injected manual transmission vehicle with a dead battery will not be able to be push or pull started, as you will have no power to the fuel pump or ecm. The newer auto boxes have really low first gears, and even when not using hill descent(which I hate and turn off), I have yet to encounter a hill when I needed to brake.

[@ronlacey5292]

Automatic 'cause I need one hand free to hold my coffee. Great video.

[@davesstillhere]

But it's so much more fun to drive a manual with a full cup of coffee in hand! Lol

[@marquixHD]

great selection of points covered. Considering this for both on-road touring as well as real off-road, and have to say that -- save for the water crossings -- I am all for manual. Mostly the sitting-duck scenario with broken gears or other vehicle problems is what makes me always tend towards the manual transmission versions of anything. (Have to admit though that it's kind of fun playing with what an auto gearbox can do these days, too...)

[@Adrian-qc7ky]

I've owned both manual and auto 4wd's and in my personal opinion, with a decent transmission cooler and regular services, modern auto transmissions outshine manual transmissions in every single way. You can't roll start a automatic . . . True, but I keep a 1500amp lithium jumper pack in the glove box of my ute which is a much more convenient and safer option to jumper cables .

[@jerrytownsend2727]

I only disagree with the river crossing, automatic transmissions have a vent and water can get into that vent and destroy you transmission

[@kinghados]

Snorkel for vent?

[@stich1960]

Most serious 4x4 guys will route the vents much higher than stock.

[@NismoXero]

That's like saying if you have diffs you can't go in the water cause they have vents. If your river crossing you should have all vents extended above high water and critical electronics sealed. Not just slap on a snorkel and your good to go.

[@RazgrizNinjaEX8]

Auto is pure easy mode. Manual is a bit more work. Neither are hard IMO.

[@redtra236]

Not really if you're driving over big rocks and shit..

[@pmjd42]

Ask Ian Ashcroft in the UK (Sorry he's past now but his sons still work for the company used to do BW35/BW65 auto conversions for old LR). I was a manual fan in all of my landrovers but then I converted my LR 90 from 4 cyl 5sp manual to V8 4sp ZF4HP22 auto, and that worked better off road IMO. The fact that you can transition from any forward gear without losing drive is great, but, unlike a clutch, you can hold the vehicle in drive on the tourqe converter without boiling the oil too much. Swings and roundabouts...

[@davidwarren4569]

Being an RFS driver driving 4WD trucks in rough terrain, auto and manual, the manual outperforms the auto hands down.

[@Foebasher]

I find the manuals are great downhill for control but prefer the auto for climbing. The latest trucks mostly chew up rough terrain in 4WD low. And far easier to drive on-road. I like the manuals too but for longer journeys - auto any day.

[@davidwarren4569]

Ben Plummer. Agree. auto uphill great. manual uphill keeps the driver on their toes. Nothing is perfect. I am driver training and encourage new drivers to get their licence on the manual and then they can still drive the manuals that are left. Auto licence limits their choices to manuals

[@steventheewok]

Hey Ronny could you do an Diesel vs Petrol off-road, would like to see all the differences.

[@jedimasterjoe5386]

nothing beats a cummins

[@BobaFett907]

I drive a 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee. It has the trail rated package with all the bells and whistles. I have taken it on easy off road trails and have found that it performs better than my 86 Cherokee Chief. However, I am now in the process of rebuilding my 86 and putting the 4.0 in it and am torn about whether or not to put a manual or automatic in it. I think my local terrain might be what I need to set it up for. Not really sure though as I have seen my 86 manual outperform an automatic. I guess it's really just preference. This video did help.

[@olliehopnoodle4628]

An advantage for automatics not mentioned in the video is the torque multiplication from the torque converter. Another great video from Ronny.

[@brucegibson5425]

very good point. Way more power when using a auto off the line. Ask any Drag racer when big horsepower is needed.

[@svandore10]

It can multiply the torque almost to 150% when taking of since there is big diference between rpms and speed