Manufactured Gas: A New York Legacy

[@oldschooljack3479]

Fun fact: When many homes and businesses decided to "electrify" the existing gas light infrastructure was often used... The gas lamps would be removed from the gas pipe and would be replaced with electric light fixtures. The gas pipes would be used as conduit for the circuitry.

[@Comm0ut]

Correct and that is why many electrical parts like lamp fittings still use gas pipe thread pitches.

[@rodgerjepsen7952]

If you can find the sconce boxes, rewiring with THHN is easy money

[@boby115]

Most of the time the gas lines (called illuminating lines in the industry) were too small in diameter to use as conduit, especially when knob and tube wiring was the norm. The electrician would usually cap off the 1/4” to 3/8” line sometimes using the cap to hold the fixture in place. Being a first responder for the gas utility in St. Louis, Missouri I can assure you those illuminating lines were seldom used as conduit and usually left live and capped. Take it from someone who ran many a gas odor complaints stating “ the customer smells the odor at the electric light.”

[@rodgerjepsen7952]

@@boby115 I think you're just quoting something you saw on TV. I personally have pulled miles of wire through abandoned gas lines through walls that were converted to electricity because it's safer than gas. Unless you're building a lamp, nobody uses 3/8 pipe

[@boby115]

@@rodgerjepsen7952 , you pull miles of wire through gas pipe,not illuminating line (you 1st should learn the difference ). Pulling wire through old gas pipe has never been acceptable in my jurisdiction (Currently NFPA70 & NFPA54 does not except this practice). What section of the country are you in where such a practice is approved?

[@alexanderpettit2106]

Excellent video! Two thumbs up!

[@CleverNameBot13]

This is excellent. Thank you!

[@MrKotBonifacy]

6:52 - OUCH. Someone clearly hasn't done his homework... While there could be SOME methane (aka "natural gas") in "coal gas" there was hardly any hydrogen in it, and, EXCUSE ME, where that carbon dioxide was supposed to come from? Huh? Someone CLEARLY mixed up TWO DIFFERENT processes, and two totally different "town gases", and then thrown in some mistakes for a good measure... So, the "town gas" is a pretty broad term, used for any "gas produced in/ by town gas works", but they are not all the same. That gas produced here was "coal gas" - i.e. the most volatile compounds of all volatile stuff contained in so-called bituminous coal (which is the coal people used for centuries in their stoves and latter in steam locos), and the process shown here is called "dry distillation" (or destructive distillation, aka pyrolysis). For explanation of "volatile compounds" in bituminous coal you may like to see the LMS training video for steam loco firemen, "Little & Often": kzbin.info/www/bejne/fGWtY6qZebVmj6M (the link is set to open at 4:10, where composition of coal is explained). Anyway, what was produced in the process described in this video above wasn't "methane, carbon dioxide and hydrogen" but rather a concoction of all and sundry carbon based compounds, with varying volatility - and very few of them were actually volatile in "normal" temperature - hence the "condenser", where all these "not really that much volatile" compounds were condensed into that "coal tar" stuff (pretty smelly and nasty, TBH). Which was then either further processed (distilled) for procurement of all sort of useful chemical compounds or used "as it was" for waterproofing of building foundations (AFAIK). And these "volatile volatiles" which were still gaseous at this stage consisted mostly of lighter aliphatic unsaturated hydrocarbons (aka alkenes and alkynes) plus vapours of lighter aromatic compounds like benzene and toluene (which actually made the gas suitable for "direct" lightning, i.e. by luminous flame itself), with a dash of heterocyclic compounds (like pyridine and furan, and their derivatives like benzopiridine or indole) thrown in for better flavour ;-) HOWEVER, since unsaturated hydrocarbons are rather reactive and prone to polymerisation and/or polycondensation it often lead to clogging of gas pipes, over time, with tarry goo, produced in situ by all these compounds travelling there. Also, this type of gas, while rather easy to produce, wasn't very "economical" - especially after the chemical industry developed a taste for all these valuable compounds in it, which began to be used as a feedstock for manufacturing all sort of valuable chemical products - phenol, toluene, pyridine, methanol and what not. And this is where things have changed a little (and confusion and mix-up got the author of the script of this video by the... erm, never mind) - anyway, Ladies and Gentlemen, please enter new, cleaner Town Gas! So at this time coke production was relegated to specialised "cokeries" (which produced higher grade, purer coke that this "town gas by-product") and the volatiles distilled off of "coked" coal were used either in situ to heat coke ovens, and/ or whatever was left was used as a feedstock for manufacturing all sort of organic compounds. And only THEN some of that coke was taken to Gas Works (the rest was used either for iron smelting or for heating) in all towns across the country, where it was put in special retorts, or "reactors", and heated up (by burning itself) to red-hot state and subjected to alternating "wet runs" and "dry runs". Once it got sufficiently hot the air supply was cut off and dry steam was pushed through the red-hot coal (coke) bed, and yes, this reaction produced carbon monoxide (MONOXIDE, NOT "dioxide!) and hydrogen: C + H2O -> CO + H2 But since this process is endothermic (i.e. uses energy instead of producing it) the wet run lasted only couple of minutes (3--4 minutes if memory serves me, maybe even less than that) and when the coal bed cooled a little the wet run was cut and replaced by dry run - i.e. the air was let back in, and it restarted normal burning of the coke, which lead to it reheating itself again sufficiently (which took twice or so as long, AFAIR) to be subjected to another wet run - and so da capo al fine. THIS "town gas" was a different animal altogether - it had a very high "energy density" and did not produce that tarry goo in pipes, but at the same time was pretty dangerous - VERY toxic because of carbon monoxide and very "explosive" when mixed with air (in case of gas leak) since hydrogen when mixed with air produces explosive mixtures with VERY wide "percentage range" of it. (Uncle Google says _explosive range of hydrogen is from 18.3% to 59%_ and _the flammability limits of hydrogen in air are very wide, from 4% to 75%_ - and who am I to question his knowledge or challenge his authority, right?) Also, as the flame of this "CO + H2" town gas was almost invisible, very pale blue, to use it for direct street lightning benzene vapours had be admixed to it - or a lamp has to be fitted with so-called Auer mantle/ jacket (after the Austrian inventor of it, Carl Auer) - or just "gas mantle" (what a lack of respect...) - but since this is the subject for another lecture, I'll end it here. So "now you know". Yeah, tad long, I agree - but then if you find it too long or just plain boring, just skip it altogether. And I should probably say that right at the beginning, but hey, "better late than never" as my auntie used to say whenever she was late for a train ;-)

[@Muonium1]

This is one of the most lettered comments I've ever read on the site. What was your masters / PhD thesis on? I venture to suggest that if you are interested in older documentaries you may potentially find some interest in the few that I have selected, mostly from the 70s and 80s, on physics and a little chemistry.

[@MrKotBonifacy]

@@Muonium1 _"This is one of the most lettered comments I've ever read on the site"_ - however, "not the most lettered comment of mine", not by a long shot ;-) Seriously though, considering the topic and the scope of the correction/ explanation needed I'd say it's more on concise side, actually. About master's/ PhD thesis - unfortunately, never happened. I did enrol into University (faculty of chemistry) but dropped out. The only thesis we can talk about was a diploma thesis I did when graduating from my high school, which was Technikum of Chemistry (industrial processes speciality), and it was about "Heating, Mixing and Sealing Systems Used in Autoclaves". (Technikum is type of secondary education school, aka high school, common in Europe, and it is basically a high school with vocational training/ education added - so a graduate from that school, a technician, is fully qualified to take job position in middle management range - or, say, become a chem lab technician - in this particular case, that is.) So anyway, it all happened back in the times when coke making and producing syngas/ water gas processes were still kinda relevant (time flies, eh?) - actually, coke is still produced today and will be for a foreseeable future, despite all that hoopla about "carbon-free steel" (i.e. "no CO2 molecule was harmed during making it" - or was it "released"? - aw, who gives...) and "green hydrogen" pipe dreams. But I digress here, and at any rate for anyone with basic knowledge of organic chemistry it is patently obvious one just CAN'T get any methane (a fully saturated simplest hydrocarbon with highest hydrogen to carbon ratio) AND hydrogen while cracking extremely long and already "hydrogen deficient", in a sense, molecules. It's like hoping to make a wooden board longer by cutting it with a saw - nah, nevah! ...And that's why making lighter hydrocarbons from Canada's tar sands (by processes called "cracking" and "reforming" requires adding methane to the mix, but since this is a subject for totally different lecture I'll end this one here. Cheers! ;-) PS: I certainly will take a peek at those videos you recomended. For some reasons I find them very interesting.

[@Muonium1]

@@MrKotBonifacy lettered in english = learned, not verbose! What a coincidence, I also dropped out of my chem degree, hah!

[@MrKotBonifacy]

@@Muonium1 _lettered_ - oops : ) Not very common expression, and as non-native speaker I just jumped to conclusion "it's about letters". But guess what, NOW I'll surely remember it! ;-)

[@markdi2]

Thank you for the explanation thank you very much

[@johnstreet797]

In the 1950's in northern New Jersey we had town gas , which replaced the coal stove in the kitchen. Then a few years later natural gas came and the stove had to be converted.

[@lawerencestimpson2280]

Yes Dad stated that the kitchen stove did not work as well when the coal gas was used.By the way Dover and Morristown both had coal gas plants.

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

There used to be a coking plant alongside the Middles to Redcar railway in the UK. If you got lucky then your train would pass by as the unloading of the coke occured. It was wonderful enough during the day, at night it took on a more spectacular effect. There was also a footpath that went on the railway on the opposite side to the coke plant. It's all gone now since the closing of the blast furnaces.

[@skipd9164]

Got up to do my nightly pee and now writing comment. Worked for a large gas utility in MASS and have always been amazed at the early years. As a meter reader I met some retirees from the old gas company and they were usually missing limbs but most retired never enjoyed retirement. That was in the late 80s and today workers get to retire. We still had drips that needed to be vacuumed because of water getting in. Still nasty as hell but there were actually people that did that every day when gas was manufactured. Also the utilities used to give the liquid away to city's and towns to keep dust under control and everyone used it. The good thing about natural gas is you would pass out and maybe sh1t yourself instead of dieing with manufactured gas. That when people use to use an oven for self deletion. In the 80s and 90s the cast iron mains were getting close to a hundred years old and I could work 24/7 from Dec to beginning of April. It allowed my family a great lifestyle and the adrenaline rush from standing infront of buildings that could go boom was great. My group never lost one but KZbin shows what could of happened. Luckily the main replacement is now been upgraded with plastic. Going to bed but will look for other videos. My city's worst fire and lots of firefighters were killed in a coal fire at the old plant

[@TeeroyHammermill]

Awesome

[@pressureworks]

If only they new that the Marcellus Shale Gas Field was right beneath their feet !

[@billsauer3164]

Thank God they didn't. We're wrecking our beautiful planet so fast now that there's no going back. We're fuk'd...our kids are fuk'd...their kids are fuk'd

[@kooldoozer]

Very good. --Doozer

[@jfchonors8873]

On the NE corner of W 211 street and Broadway in Manhattan there is the remnant of a gas street lamp You can see it on Google Not sure how it has survived

[@lawerencestimpson2280]

Just for fun.Does anyone remember the radio program with Big John & Sparky and The Land of Make Believe? The Gas House St Gorilla Gang was talked about.

[@jimcypher]

"You kids look like the Gashouse Gang!' - My father

[@Foersom_]

Is barbeque coal the same as coke?

[@stasi0238]

No barbecue coal is wood coal made nowadays.

[@stephenroot1012]

That is charcoal.

[@MrWaalkman]

The process is basically the same, heat the material that you want to convert in the absence of oxygen, and what you are left with is carbon. That said, the material that you start out with makes a big difference (in other words, you aren't going to be left with just carbon). This is done in what is known as a "retort". So some tire companies retort their tires onsite to keep the competition from reverse engineering their rubber formula. The carbon left over from this process still smells of rubber. Obviously this is a very small market for retorts. Also obvious is that you don't want to cook with the carbon that comes out of one of these retorts. Another material is wood, and the goal there is to make charcoal for your grill (plenty of YT videos on this process). A hard wood will make a hard carbon, soft wood makes soft carbon. The size of the carbon varies greatly. Then there's carbon made from coconut shells. This carbon is much harder than carbon made from wood, and is used for filtration. All of these types of carbon can be made in the manner.

[@davidhimmelsbach557]

Gas light fixtures were sooty.

[@PplEtr]

This documentary struggles to get to the point. Seems like the first mention of gas is about 4 minutes in.

[@ronblack7870]

yet coke was still needed in large quantities so maybe the coke plants survived?

[@OffGridInvestor]

Today they manufacture coke for home blacksmithing. I am told it's far cleaner than coal when you're trying to hammer steel together.

[@xz3693]

Interesting how we don't mention the pollution the tar caused.

[@Morningstar-bg3xh]

I Agee tar pollution but with new tech could this be done without pollution and be the answer to oil dependence’s 3wars trillions dollars millions of lives wars make pollution we have 1200 years of coal we have to find a way to make energy’s with what we have I am thinking gas for car trucks and bus’s they can run on natural gas and blue manufacture gas the ones we have now . You see the electric cars most of the parts are made in China and the batteries material we do not have this means more wars more children die and making the electric car makes more pollution then it saves and electricity is made that makes pollution there nuke plants but they take 10 years to build I just want something we can use today . And yes the gas plants will take 2 years to build but we have natural gas and can burn coal in power plants but we need stack cleaners installed then the natural gas that was burned in the power plant would be use for cars trucks buses the fly ash from the coal burning makes concrete for roads .

[@ronblack7870]

coal tar has many uses in the die industry and pharmaceutical etc.

[@OffGridInvestor]

Because it was ALL CAUGHT and it's CREOSOTE not tar, just that's what creosote used to be called. Used in preserving wooden fence posts, and back thenput on animals cuts. I see you've done no actual experimentation with this. I've created has and said tar. As soon as the gas hits cold steel, the tar settles on it and is hard when it cools.

[@FREDDAGGS]

​@@OffGridInvestorit's uses don't make it wholesome. Nasty stuff. Wood tar is better.

[@michaeldomansky8497]

Interesting how you fail to mention how you probably wouldn’t be here without them! 🤣🤣🤣

[@GilmerJohn]

It would have been useful to say where all that coal came from.

[@MrKotBonifacy]

From coal mines. It always comes from coal mines, unless it comes from local coal warehouse... ;-)

[@GilmerJohn]

@@MrKotBonifacy -- Yeah, I know where coal comes from. (It often comes from "strip mines," btw.) My question had more to do with where the coal originated and by what route was it shipped?

[@MrKotBonifacy]

@@GilmerJohn ...in which case I'd formulate the question along the lines _How gas works were supplied with coal_ - or something to that tune. Also, a strip mine is still a mine, innit? ;-)

[@Morningstar-bg3xh]

With today tech could manufacture gas make a come back

[@OffGridInvestor]

It essentially has in areas. In Australia we have an experimental synthetic fuel production plant running off laser started gasification of an underground coal bed. The gas comes up the pipe and using the fischer tropsch process the nazis used in WW2, they make synthetic fuel.

[@UQRXD]

I really don't care, all obsoleted now.

[@vacuumboy6.0]

We didn't ask for your opinion. Go live in a dark hole and throw out your phone do not use lights and do not take hot showers and do not cook. And do not vote or reproduce

[@vacuumboy6.0]

Oh, dear you are moronic. the power you use to charge your phone/computer and light your house is made by natural gas boilers and or turbines. I bet you have a gas furnace or boiler. I suggest you go live in a dark hole. "Obsoleted" 😂😂😂 a new breed of idiot you are.

[@joez.2794]

For a glimpse of _your_ future, might I suggest the excellent documentary _Idiocracy (2006)?_

[@UQRXD]

@@joez.2794 Do you star in it?