Why bike mechanics love reliable alu wheels like these

[@JL-ms3jr]

Finally, a video that talks about actual real world experience! What a relief to find someone prioritising the practical aspects of a bike wheel and understanding that regular consumers don't have piles of free kit, we just want something that works sensibly and isn't a pile of scrap at the first hint of a bearing failure. Legends!

[@Frostbiker]

But what are the tolerances on those bearings? Is the spoke tension within 5% of spec, out of the box? And most importantly, how do we know what a product is really like unless the manufacturer sent it to us for free to review?

[@josediaspinto7438]

The angry consumer that was sold a bike with cheap components. Complain to your LBS for having sold you a bike with crappy components or better still to the manufacturer that integrated production of Chinese wheels, stems and handlebars, when in the past they used to buy wheels from Mavic, Easton, Ritchey and other brands.

[@sepg5084]

​@@Frostbiker for "regular cyclists", watching youtube is not necessary. Just buy what you can afford, ride around, and that's it. And know that chinese brands actually produce good products for the price.

[@sepg5084]

​​@@josediaspinto7438 all my bike's parts are chinese brands, only my brakes and drivetrain are not (Shimano). I do hill climbs every weekend for half a decade now, zero problems whatsoever.

[@theoriginalrecycler]

I think he talks shite.

[@ray8964]

remember the good old days when the go to was Mavic Open Pro rims with 105 or Ultegra hubs and Sapin race spokes

[@paulmosely1116]

And proper cup and cone bearings, none of this press fit bearing nonsense!

[@cad4246]

Still available hand made from sjs cycles 🙂

[@Ryan.T89]

@@paulmosely1116Cup and Cone bearings are high maintenance. Cartridge bearings last a lot longer, require zero maintenance and don’t wreck your hub when they do wear out. 10 mins replaces them when they do go.

[@manitolas]

i just bought one exactly as you said, mavic pro,with 105 hub and 11-34 rear sprockets for my road b,to replace my basic wheel,cos it was damaged😀🤘

[@kennethward9530]

Rebuilt a rear wheel 2 years ago putting another mavic pro on a bullseye hub with new Sapim spokes. Prior wheel had 80,000+ miles. Still have 2 fresh rims in the box, so I should be good for a while.

[@LasseBuck]

Thanks for putting this out in the open! So often, serviceability does not get the attention it deserves.

[@Mapdec]

Our pleasure!

[@thomasseymour4190]

I’m a wheel builder. DT 350 is my go-to hub. Parts are easy to find, but you’re going to need to ride lots of miles before you need any.

[@bonbonflippers4298]

Besides dt swiss what's you next 2 line ups for hubs?

[@seitenryu6844]

​@bonbonflippers4298 There really aren't many options around that price point. They all get a failing grade once you look at service options. Throw a steel freehub on a 350 and that thing will last many years.

[@laurynasjagelo5075]

@@bonbonflippers4298 I've had pretty good experience with spank hubs. Mine's aleady at 4th year of wet riding, still in bangin condition. Changed the bearings twice. Super simple and quick to service. Good engagement at 102t

[@bonbonflippers4298]

@@laurynasjagelo5075 I didn't know spank makes hubs

[@Skittlez19]

@@bonbonflippers4298bitex, hope, H-works. All very good options with great reliability and serviceability.

[@Handletaken4]

I have a 300lb customer. I built a set of Tiagra hubs, 36 hole Sun CR18 rims and DT 2.0 spokes. $300 and 15,000 miles no issues

[@catshoemike]

I’m sure they were great for that customer in those conditions. Before everyone rushes off to replicate, I’d offer this view. I had GRX400 hubs , aka Tiagra, on a brand new gravel bike, which I used very heavily in muddy, gritty North Wales UK conditions and they lasted mere months before the freehub packed up, beyond repair. So I’m not negating your experience, just saying that in crappy UK winter conditions, mine was different. I replaced them with some hand built wheels with Bitex hubs (ally rims, less than GBP400 all in) which have been excellent for three years now. I’m 85kg and tend to be hard on the bike

[@Garfie1d73]

DT Swiss or die. Their customer service is legend.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

Parts availability...

[@ketle369]

My DT alu wheels developed slack in them after two years. Bearings very hard to replace.

[@DR_1_1]

@@ketle369 2 years? My front C 1800 is not 100% true anymore after only a few rides on trails... It's not that bad, but I'm

[@ketle369]

@@DR_1_1 Its on a roadbike. I dont jump that much on the road bike ;) Im above 100 kg!!

[@DR_1_1]

@@ketle369 I'm mostly on roads too, maybe 10% trails, and no real jumps! that's why I was surprised to see it was already (very slightly) veiled. It's supposed to be a cat 2 wheel, ie 15 cm "jumps"!

[@impaledface7694]

Me, over here rolling on old campy or shimano hubs, with mavic mtb rims or mavic ma40's...... I do like the dt swiss wheels and they would be my go to for cartridge bearing wheels. I am happy I don't live in the UK/rainforest where I would have to rebuild my wheels super frequently. Also with old cup and cone bits as long as the cup is fine you can get replacement axles, and cones from easy to find websites and of course ball bearings as well.

[@Hambini]

Can't agree with you on this one Paul. DT Swiss labels their bearings 6903 despite having an 18mm bore - that's the engineering equivalent of saying something about someone's mum. Then if you take into account the runout on the DT and compare it to the 9 Velo, the hubs are miles apart. I would pick the 9 Velo in heartbeat, they've taken the engineering mechanics of the DT and then made it better. I appreciate that I am no mechanic, but if something is engineered better, then it should last longer before servicing is required.

[@youling1997]

What grease would you recommend for 9velo hub?

[@Mapdec]

It might, might be better. But they don’t provide spares. Nor are they obliged to under right to repair

[@Mapdec]

DT Swiss special grease or SRAM butter works ok. You can’t use anything too viscous.

[@aser885]

DT swiss don't even use that special 6903 bearing anymore on their new hubs. Most are standard 6902, 15267 or 17287. The hub that used to use the special 6903 was the 240s fifteen which came out well over 10 years ago.

[@bm4122]

@@Mapdec althoguh dt Swiss has ridiculous prices on their spare parts like those ratcheting teeth are $100, End caps are $50 , New freehub body is $100. Before purchasing my new wheels from magene. I asked about buying replacement hub parts for the wheels. They unfortunately told me they don’t do parts but you can buy the full hubs at $98 for rear, $68 for front USD.

[@ChristianRebelsky]

Absolutely agree. This is the same for the home mechanic. Have the previous model of the GR1600s and it's a breeze riding and maintaining them. Spokes, nipples, tools, spare parts ... everything transparent, well documented and somewhere in stock.

[@Quizmate1]

DCR 24 25 rim, with DCR (Bitex) centrelock hubs and Sapim CXray spokes on my road bikes. One set is 7 years old and still going strong. Only ever taken the free hub off to clean and re grease the pawls. I'm pretty certain spares for the hubs are easily available. I think the price currently is similar at around 500 quid.

[@lozetchells9164]

DT Swiss all the way for me. Done nearly 10,000 MTB miles on 2 bikes with 3 dt swiss midrange wheel sets, and I've never once had to replace any part, not even a bearing. Unbeatable.

[@stuartbennett4476]

So glad because I just bought a set of DT Swiss GR1600s for my gravel bike 🎉

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Great choice 👍

[@shimona500]

I was buying carbon aero wheels. On DT Swiss side, there were already Ratchet EXP hubs from €1400 mark (ARC 1400). Ended up buying Roval Rapide CL2s. Wheels themselves are €1600-1800 (got them at 1300), but come with 350 hub which seems so much more practical. Ratchet EXP had some launch problems, hubs would last for 500km or something crazy like that.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

@@shimona500 DT 350 hubs are *excellent* Been training and racing on them for years - tough XC and Gravel environment, too.

[@stuart3744]

Dt Swiss RR511 built on Hope RS 4 three years ago for £280 at wheelcraft just outside Glasgow, you can buy rims and hubs separate to whatever you want and don’t get a daft spoke count to save weight, it is the uk and they need to be strong.

[@alastairmerrill9349]

Great insights, thanks for sharing. Wheelsmith in Scotland hand build great wheels starting at around £400, so well worth a look. I've got Zipp style 45mm carbon rims laced to Hope hubs with sapim spokes and robust and weather-resilient brass nipples, and they've been awesome and faultless for many years (however, they weren't £400, although they were a lot less than a pair of Zipps, but much better built and with decent hubs!).

[@stephenconnolly1830]

Just purchased a rear DT Swiss 1800 Spline with rim brakes (fitted with Tannus solid tyres) for my eBike so I am really delighted to know this was a wise move given the ability to easily maintain the wheel going forward.

[@aljaliah6868]

My Pinarello Prince 2015 (remarketed DOGMA 65.1) came with FULCRUM wheels which kept snapping spokes , replaced them with the cheapest MAVIC aluminium wheels available £199 (discounted) and I’ve NEVER had any problems with them since I bought them about 6 years ago

[@bengt_axle]

The base-level Campag Khamshin (and Fulcrum variant) are very, very durable. They can be had in rim brake version often for $250 on second hand web sites. They weigh about 1700g, which is about what a road disk setup weighs, with the rotors.

[@rangersmith4652]

When bike wheels had angular contact, cup-and-cone hubs, spare parts were a non-issue. With a modicum of care, one needed only to replace the actual steel balls about every 5K miles or so, regrease, adjust the preload, and ride another 5K miles. The balls are easy to get and cheap. Bonus: angular contact bearings do a good job of handling vertical and lateral loads.

[@speedy1490]

But with cup and cone bearing youre sh*** outta luck too if your cones are damaged and there arent replacements available. Like its the case with most 90s/early 2000s Shimano Hubs nowadays.

[@Ryan.T89]

A set of cartridge bearings is about £10 and require zero maintenance. They also generally last a lot more than 5k. You also have the benefit of not wearing out you wheel hub and aging to service them every month.

[@rangersmith4652]

@@Ryan.T89 My estimate of 5K miles is very conservative. As in for someone who has spare time, likes tinkering, and appreciates a bike that's running as well as it can. Someone like me. The reality is a set of cup-and-cone hubs could easily go three or four times that before being serviced and show no measurable wear. Many go the lifetime of the bike without ever becoming noticeably rough. The four dozen or so G25 ball bearings required cost ~$.03-.05 each, or a total of ~$1.50-2.40, and that's for both wheels. The required tools? A small flat head screwdriver to coax off the dust caps, a $5 set of cone wrenches, and about four tablespoons of marine grease. No pullers. No presses. No violent whacking.

[@rangersmith4652]

@@speedy1490 That's not my experience. I've rebuilt a dozen or so Shimano hubs of that era, and some much older. I have yet to find one so badly worn that I could not resurrect it. I've seen one set that was being written off by its owner until I polished the races and showed him there was only very minor pitting. We rebuilt them, and they came out great. They will need more frequent servicing than usual going forward, but they were not a lost cause.

[@stevengagnon4777]

​​​​@@rangersmith4652yeah I've been regrinding cones for since 1990 and removing a significant amount of pitting Shimano cones take well to this. I now use a small cheap lathe to turn the cone ( back in 1990 I used a good drill with a very good bearing) and grind the pitting out completely with a dremal and elipsoid bit to match the original shape. Then polish with several grades of emery cloth. Rebuild with grade 25 through hardened chrome steel bearings. Sometimes I need to sdd a very thin spacer to get the alignment corrected if it was severe. But those hubs are still in service from 1990 . That pitting is always caused by adjusting the hub to tight . The rear hub should have just a tiny amount of play a 9mm axle front a bit more. If you want to get it perfect you can put a spacer that covers the nub of the axle and put the lever end of the quick release skewer next to the spacer and the nut end ( literally a 5mm × 0.8 metric nut)on the other side . Clamp it down as you would on the bike . Then adjust perfectly. You will be surprised how much play is in the front 9mm axle hub when the QR is released. So what happens if the hub is too tight then it will try to self adjust by chewing up the cone. I started doing this 35 years ago because we often only had those wheels manufacturing cones in stock and it didn't matter how well adjusted they still wore out in a few thousand miles. Like I stated the reground shimano's are still in service with well over 10K . The lathe does work better since it doesn't move about. Yeah top shelf grease Shimano DA is calcium based and does well. What marine grease are you using? I was using WD specialist true all purpose it was very good and handled heat 🔥 ...can't find it anymore. Lucas Red n Tacky is good too ...my test mule made three full years through the winter and it was still clean enough to just squirt some more in. I use mineral based ATF with a little red n tacky to thicken slightly for the freehub body oh so quiet. The nice thing about the red n tacky is that it flows well when the wheel is spinning and it's inexpensive and easily found out side of a bike shop. As a bicycle mechanic I've found so many of the products didn't work. DA is 35 dollars a pound....it just cost too much to use for everything I work on that would be like 300$ a year Motorex is about the same great stuff but just as expensive. Yeah I have a tendency to fill the bearing and let nature take it's corse. Except that right side of the freehub as you don't want to push the excess into the freehub body and get grease into the pawls...that's from rebuilding thousands of them ...they also lack grease from the factory as it probably depends on what day it was . Anyway Shimano's are the best right from the very bottom up, they really nailed the profile of the cone and materials....can't say how the new though axles are holding up though.

[@DDai-qd8uk]

Thanks for shedding some honest light on Winspace wheels. Keep up the honest work. Appreciate it.

[@thedownunderverse]

Kudos to DT for making state of the art quality hubs, rims, spokes and nipples available to custom builds - especially the rims!

[@RylHango]

Dt swiss hubs aren’t state of the art, they’re just okay

[@thedownunderverse]

@@RylHango maybe not the hubs are SOTA, but the rest are. And I’d say the hubs are solid, reliable and proven though perhaps “bland”. I’m perfectly OK with that!

[@zedddddful]

DT Swiss alu wheels are legendary.

[@harryadams4070]

For rim brake oldies try the DT Swiss R460 rim, Miche Primato hubs, Sapim Race black spokes, brass nipples. Just built a pair for £240. Hub spares - springs, pawls, ratchet ring etc all available. Great everyday wheelset.

[@muz355]

I opted for Hope RS4 Pro hubs with 20Five rims. Fabulous performance awesome hubs amd very easily serviceable. All UK parts and build too.

[@robertcavanagh]

Have a few hunt wheelsets and 4 season and race aero never had an issue. There excellent

[@sccxvelo]

Agree with upgrade budget wheels needs to be reliable for long term in all conditions and easy to repair with common parts. Leave the special parts for the expensive high end wheels. Aviod hunt for the the reason you mentioned. Mavic is just throw away wheels when small parts goes bad now.

[@CS1174]

I’ve got a wheelset that you have featured in this piece, which came as stock with a bike I recently bought. 6 months in, I’ve already spent £90 fixing it (LBS rolled their eyes when I took the wheels in). Bearings in front hub and free hub shot. I also bought a set of ffwd wheels (they are lovely to ride) after another of your videos, which also give me the knowledge to find a decent pair of alu 4 season wheels (custom made, DT Swiss). Not as cheap up front but hopefully will last and are easy to fix and I can fix at home. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, it’s refreshing to see content about longevity rather than weight, wind tunnel stats, etc.

[@scottf3456]

I have Hed Ardennes and I'm happy with them. I always lusted after DT.

[@bald1der]

Will be looking to replace the stock wheels on my Cannondale Topstone Carbon in the spring, will definitely be looking at the DT Swiss GR1600's

[@bleckandbleck]

The Fulcrum Quattro and Racing 3 (Campagnolo Zonda and Scirocco) are at that price point and are extremely durable and the hubs are outstanding and super easy to service. They use standard ball bearings but in 25+ years I’ve had no failures. I did break one proprietary spoke on a Bora1 but that’s a different price point. It was easy to find.

[@alistairboyce1534]

Bought the previous version when they were just called "DT Swiss GR1600" to build up my Mason gravel bike. They appear to have almost identical spec. Can't fault them, super satisfied, highly recommended. 👌

[@MajorJamesGastovski]

In the last few years, carbon wheelsets have become dominant, and people have only talked about how the new fat and tall rim could save watts and merely mentioned the hubs. But 20-30 years ago, when custom-built wheels were still the mainstream, people always focused on the hub first. The hubs of Shamano's Dura-Ace, Campy's Record, and Chris King were always eye-catchers. All these hubs are robust, maintainable, and can last many years. A good pair of hubs is way more expensive than the rims and other small parts, comparing all the parts in a wheelset to each other. But the newbies today always have no idea how vital the hubs are for a long-lasting wheelset.

[@Mapdec]

Well said.

[@richardggeorge]

Agree! I'm currently rebuilding some dura ace 7850 hubs (10 speed,.rim brake) with new rims right now as I carefully maintained the cup and cone hubs over the years. Funnily enough (despite what the presenter says) I'm specifically using Pillar spokes and nipples because they are so easy to order from Ali Express here in Australia.

[@1960sdg]

Gotta love my King hubs with Mavic CXP rims.

[@borano2031]

I´ve built my go to wheels now for my CX bike on Campagnolo Record hubs. What am I doing wrong?? Rgr

[@MajorJamesGastovski]

@@richardggeorge I have a pair of 7800, still running smoothly.

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

"Another one of those" looked to me to be a freehub assembly from Novatec? I took one of these with a rough bearing inside (that appeared to be non-replaceable) into a LBS who like you, just shrugged. 10 minutes online was all it took to find one that looked just like it. It's still spinning happily in the wheel today.

[@treimar]

I live in a custom wheel household. Sapim spokes, nipples and whatever I like for the hub and rim.

[@gaza4543]

mostly out of fashion so very hard to get hold of. But fully agree a well put together set of alloy hoops feels as good if not better than carbon hoop.

[@m__r1100]

Thank you for this - great insight. I say that having had a 3 month old RaceFace rear wheel 'written off' through pawl springs breaking - and RaceFace carry no spares... Never ever again

[@PRH123]

wow, thanks for the heads up! I’ve had a similar experience with Shimano wheels, and their unique and individual to each wheel spokes, which can’t be found for replacement

[@Silidons91]

I love my Fulcrum Racing Zero 2WF wheels...

[@Sebasstian86]

During COVID-19 GR1600 wheels weren't in stock, so I build myself a set of equivalent wheels using DT swiss 350 hubs, revolution spokes, 14mm brass nipples and GR531 rims. I used the DT swiss calculator and averaged the spoke length for front and back. The spoke threads stick out about 3-5mm out of the nipples, so adjustment can be tricky, but the wheels have performed admirably. They've survived Dutch MTB trails, the cobbles climbs of Flanders and the cobbles of la trouée d'Arenberg and Carrefour de l'Arbre and stayed true enough, so I can definitely vouch for GR1600 wheels. They aren't the lightest or most aerodynamic, but they get the job done and are bomb proof.

[@Mapdec]

Nice. And well done.

[@FutoiBakaKun]

Best video on the subject I've seen.

[@kevinfrost1579]

Great wheels summary of what matters to 99% of riders, construction, reliability and access to spares. Looking trim my man ! Great job on transforming over the winter…… hope you’re having a blast on the bike(s) 😁👍

[@Mapdec]

oh, I am Kevin.

[@KOL630]

Look forward to your full review of these. I have the 1400’s and really like them.

[@miedziako]

I've no experience with GR 1600 wheels, but the rims that are used in rim brake version of P 1800 and PR 1600 tend to crack around spoke holes after less than 1 year of use and way below the weight limit ( commuting around 700 km a month ) My answer to this is Scribe 365, j-bent sapim d-light spokes, brass nipples, ISO size bearings (they could be better quality), under 1600g disc or rim brake and around 300 yoyo's

[@newttella1043]

DT Swiss 350 is my hub if choice for value. I don't care about high engagement...but you can even upgrade that if you want.

[@mattvanderwalt6220]

I got a set of DT Swiss by 'accident' a few years back (just a lucky eBay purchase) - they really are phenomenal wheels.

[@GG-si7fw]

Thank you for going over the entry level wheelsets. I was at the Unbound Gravel 2024 bike expo and visited the DT booth and they had a contest to assemble their freehub by hand without tools in under 30 seconds to win a free water bottle. Our family of 5 won 2. My 7 year old son was able to assemble the hub by himself after shown the assembly once. My 4 year old daughter could do it with instructions on the order they went in but she did need help snapping in a part with an audible click. My next wheelset will be the DT Swiss. My only experience with them is I have the older R1.1 road rims only from 2006 and they are still true after 5,000 miles on them.

[@RAP4EVERMRC96]

Love the video. It shows exactly why I buy dt Swiss. I always thought this would only apply for people like me that service everything themselves. Interesting to see that the same thing translates to bike shops.

[@lovemore4229]

I may be a little old school but I just buy shimano xt hubs with DT Swiss spokes, brass nipples and Spanx rims, relatively cheap, reliable and bullet proof. I do build them myself without any special tools which makes a big difference to the cost of a wheel.

[@Mapdec]

Perfect. I hope they improve the XT hub soon. That silent mucrospline version has not done well.

[@Bikecampcook]

Hunt and the word reliable yeah right... Hubs : DTswiss - Bitex - Hope. Spokes Sapin Rims : Stans - DTswiss

[@JulianAndresKlode]

I think we agree, I was looking for something that has approximately: - DT350 (check) - Aero Comp spokes (I actually have mostly Aerolite, Aero Comp is only on the drivetrain side I believe, I think that only saves like 50g total for 24 spokes per wheel, silly) - External nipples (I actually have internal alu ones from I believe Sapim, not sure about alu, seems everyone is doing it but doesn't seem worth the weight tradeoff) But in a 40-55mm carbon rim (which I have 45mm deep, and 24mm internal wide and nice). I had initially looked at Hunt and Scribe but of course retracted that from consideration and apologized to the bike shop for ever considering that :D

[@isitrachelorj3953]

If I had all the $$$$$ in the world every pair of wheels I own would be DT SWISS. I have two inexpensive training sets that roll as fast as any race wheels I own. The race wheels roll as well, are lighter and more aero. To bad they're so expensive!

[@Wiroe]

Flat spokes on straight pull hubs also prevent the spokes from twisting around and loosening that way

[@ronspencer6668]

As a mechanic with 25 yrs experience, I wish i had a dollar for the number of times i had to give up on a hub just because we could not get something simple like freehub springs or the damn little spacers. Also.. the average rider prioritizes performance over repairability here - the axle when it wears will impact shift quality and bearing longevity way more than a fancy ceramic bearing set. The rider must put a priority on replacement part availability or just don't buy the wheelset! Dt Swiss wins almost every time. Great video Mapdec.

[@billyshakespeare17]

Running DT Swiss XR391 with 240 hubs. Great wheels which accept a wide range of tires. On my gravel bike running Boyd CCC 700C alloy wheels with enduro hubs. Price wise they are less than the DT Swiss. Both wheelsets are great. Avoided carbon hookless as I don't know much about them.

[@JMJM75257]

In the 500 pounds range i like to get a wheelset built. I recently used some ryde andra 40 rims with a bitex heavy duty rear hub and hopes pro 5 front. laced with dt alpine tiple butted spokes. the build totalled 550 including wheel building by my local called condor cycles. A lighter and slightly more expensive option is using Halo rims along with fewer spoke count and perhaps hope hubs front and back. if you shop about you will find deals on things. that and a handbuilt wheel is almost always better than machine built.

[@sjurk81]

Lovely video! After a couple of different wheelsets on my winterbike (Bontrager no-name stuff it came with, Shimano GRX, Fulcrum ) I finally switched to a DT Swiss set and it has been great. The Bontrager set was crap with a Formula RX hub that was hard to service. The GRX wheelset was servicable but cup-cone on a winterbike wasn't the best choice as it needed a lot of service and I had to replace the axle after a year of riding. The fulcrum-set wasn't suitable for gravel-stuff and also needed a lot of service, but parts weren't a real problem, but rebuilding the hubs every month wasn't what I wanted to do. The DT Swiss G1800 set I've got now has been great with no problems, sounds or other stuff in the approx. 2000kms I did on them. They where cheap and with DT Swiss switching the 370 hubs to their ratchet-system I expect that service will be a blast when it does need it.

[@DR_1_1]

Wow, interesting, I'm hesitating between the GRX and C 1800 (~G 1800) for my rear wheel... Both have the exact same specs - on paper - and same price, too. I already bought a front C 1800 but I'm not really impressed, nothing to complain either, I suppose my Cube/Newmen wheels were already good (stock on my < 1500 € bike), I just can't feel any difference, although the DT might be slightly lighter. Maybe I'm good with a 2nd front wheel only, I can switch between a slick and CX tyre when needed, and keep the same strong slick rear tyre all the time...

[@sjurk81]

@@DR_1_1 I can't really complain about my GRX wheelset (570 set), they run great as long as you service them which is cheap when you know how to do it. A clean and new grease is often good enough. The 'problem' is that when the bearings go bad an axle replacement is near because of the cup-cone setup, with regular bearings you just replace the bearings and are good to go. So in my experience if you take care of them they are great and maintenance is cheap. But if you - like me - ride in bad conditions and don't clean them out every 2000kms or so... well... look for something else ;-)

[@chrismaddox15]

Fantastic video! Perfectly done. Thanks from the US!.

[@briansteel4872]

A great video and insightful, I appreciate that handbuilt wheels were out of the remit but for £500 you can get a great pair of alloy wheels and if there are issues just go back to the builder. I only have rim brake bikes it would be nice to see a similar video on rim brake wheels. 😊

[@steve6942]

I use DT swiss rims sapim spokes and nipples when rebuilding broken wheels (mtb) currently. Their hubs (along with hope) are a pleasure to work on when servicing (though there's a premium for their tools for the job). I think when I come to upgrade/replace my OEM bontrager (don't laugh 😮) wheels on my road bike i will be looking for dt swiss. Keep the videos coming with a few more close up shots next time 😊

[@Ryan.T89]

Have to disagree about Mavic. I’ve got the Mavic Kysurim 30 disc on my Triban RC500 which I commute on and ride and use as a winter bike. I picked them up from Merlin cycles for £290 and they’ve just over 12,000 miles on them. In that time i have broken 2 spokes (hit a massive pot hole) which my LBs ordered and they arrived the next day. The spokes are also the same length on both sides of the wheel, so you don’t need to keep a load of different spares. I replaced the hub bearings in the rear which I was able to find online next day delivery from loads of places. The spring in Id360 hub was worn and I got a replacement for that no problem on line. I know the older ones with the nylon bush freehub where a pain to get bits for but the new ones some a lot more standardised. They are also one of the few alloy wheels that use steel spokes and steel nipples. For context I am 120kg as I am a rugby player so no light weight. I ride on some rough roads and in a lot of wet weather. In the same conditions the stock decathlon rear wheel died after about 3000 miles.

[@ketle369]

I was 115 kg and have Mavic Cosmic alu wheels. No problems in three years.

[@nickyburnell]

100kg on 200quid Cero AR24,s. Super hilly area. Several sets. never an issue. Parts available.

[@justaperson1812]

great video, repairability is so important

[@JulianAndresKlode]

I had Fulcrum Racing 7 on my first bike, those were the stock wheels (well in OEM build with different color labels) and also the replacements ones after I crashed. These things used 4 different types of spokes, I think that was madness. Overengineered

[@workshopninjathe1st]

I just bought a replacement for my HED Belgium rim - $185! For an aluminium rim!!! I did buy it because it matched my front but f&$k me that was a hard decision to make. I just picked up a pair of light bicycle rims for only another $100. The world has gone crazy. Built them up on CK hubs and Sapim CX ray spokes and brass nips - should last me for 10 years :)

[@Mapdec]

Sad. As the world has gone carbon mad, the production volumes on good alu has dropped. Alu works best at high production as it’s an extrusion method. The main cost is machine set up.

[@t1mh0pe]

Had Mavics before - the freehub failed and the price of replacement was more than a new wheel. Hope and DT Swiss have been flawless.

[@Mapdec]

This is a familiar mavic story

[@wrcompositi]

FYI, Microtech hub is made by Powerway, that type of cassette body is the same as PFH-R13. Also, It doesn't cost much to use a R13 hub as part donator for the wheel if you want a spare axle.

[@bernieraverty4319]

Great teaching! Happy D T Swiss 350/500 wheel owner

[@markifi]

i've had excellent luck with midrange shimano hubs. not many things to replace other than the bearings. a bit high maintenance but the reward is the same hub for 10 years instead of hunting down a new component.

[@stevengagnon4777]

Eveey one of my two dozen or so has some sort of Shimano hub in it built with DT spokes . They are older than 20 years and not one is the top model. The thing about Shimano is the bearing surface is angular contact so they take the side load well and the cone and cups a sufficiently hard and hold up to through hardened chrome steel bearings. Many have double seals and the cassette also has a seal on the back side use good grease ( Dura Ace is very good and similar to Motorex , been usin Lucas Red n Tacky with decent results and mineral based ATF with a little red n tacky to thicken it a little (just a little)for the freehub then fill the back side of it and put the seal back in ...nice and quiet) and they last for many decades. Every one of these hubs were used before I built them into a new wheel many with regrouped cone surfaces. The big killer is overly tight adjustment there should be a tiny tick of play before the quick release is clamped down....more for a front with a nine mm axle. This of course is all old school and through axles are a bit different and might not need any play or more like a barley discernable amount as they won't compress as much when installed. The problem with radial contact cartridge bearings is the need very precise alignment and when they are perfectly aligned the hub will have a tiny amount of play and if they aren't aligned well then they wear faster. Another nice thing about the Shimano freehub body is the play in it can be adjusted to a minimum and they have two ratchet pawls a 120° apart. So when it's engaged it forces the body against the third leg ( the ball bearings) and is solidly fixed under load.

[@markifi]

@@stevengagnon4777 all very good points! here in east europe lucas oil stuff is not often seen and i'm not sure what grease i use to be honest. it is green, so could be shimano. ATF is automatic transmission fluid? lately i found an amazing grease i have yet to try in bicycles, liqui moly marine grease called "bootsfett". i use it in the skateboard bearings for riding it in the rain, and i'm so happy about that grease i tell everyone about it. i think it may be a bit thick for bicycle use but maybe not

[@klarkolofsson]

Great video and insights! I tend to inform customers that they mainly buy a frameset and groupset when buying a low or mid-range bike. Swapping the tyres and wheels to something like you mention here is pretty much needed for reliable cycling, sadly…

[@luv23c]

I sense Mr Mapdec has now just itched a troubling big itch in telling how it actually is. Nice one dude🤟

[@Mapdec]

lol. Yes. Getting kinda sick of trying to fix these disposable wheels touted on KZbin.

[@531c]

Ive a set of Borg 22 disc wheels. £450. Handmade in Suffolk, buttery smooth.

[@christopherhood9241]

I ordered a pair of these hunt 4 seasons things in their last sale. Opened the box and sadly various bits of the wheel appeared to fall off in the box in transit. Sent the bu88ers back. Ordering a set of wheels from Ryanbuildswheels.

[@alexeydanilchenko434]

Ryanbuildswheels wheel builds are superb - best wheels I ever used. He build me a DTSwiss rims bomber and they are indestructible and so well built. Already did a maintenance couple times - super easy to service as well.

[@mayfieldcourt]

great advice, thank you

[@basvanleeuwen4502]

I have two wheelsets for my roadbike the FFWD Ryot with DT swiss 240 hubs, and the DT swiss E1800 alu wheels, for when there is a problem with the FFWD's or I want to run wider/more grippier tyres. I have all the spare parts at home. Because when I get home from fixing other peoples bikes I do not want to spend too much time fixing my own wheels/bike .

[@stuartbird5139]

Thanks, that was very informative. Good to get practical considerations rather than just the usual aero or weight weeny hype

[@RICHARD.WRIGHT1]

DT SWISS and FULCRUM are probably THE MOST Logical design and for ease of spares to find. Easy maintainance, and generally a good Price/Quality ratio...

[@jayjballer5600]

Quite useful! It can be difficult to discern what truly works for the rider, out on the road, with regards to bicycle wheels. The materials and mechanics get buried under the marketing. Having played this video in the background whilst doing other things, it will be replayed forthwith. Thank you for the insight; warmest regards from Joe in Atlanta, Georgia, USA

[@Mapdec]

Glad it was helpful!

[@harrylea5805]

I do agree, my workhorse wheels are Custom built DT swiss wheels with 350 hubs. I do have Chinese carbon wheels for race day. I think this is the best value option with all the benefits of replacement parts for the high use wheels and reduced price to performance ratio with the Chinese wheels.

[@mattswain552]

Great video. Back in 2019 I managed to get a pair of wheels built by a local builder for a shade over £550: H PLUS SON Hydra rims, Sapim CX Rays, brass nipples and Hope RS4 hubs. Would love to know how these would compare to the benchmark and others as they've served me very well.

[@Mapdec]

They would compare well. You did good.

[@matthewlewis9356]

Have tried to service a Tune hubs from Germany I like them I find it easy to maintain and easy to clean.

[@BloodyClash]

just bought a set of dt swiss rr481 for 640 euro and replaced my old 533d with them. to me they are worth every cent 😁the bike now feels like it's flying (changed the rings in the 350hub with some 54teeth rings because i just love the sound - as weird as that may sound)

[@johnstevenson2405]

Round spokes are work-hardened/tempered/strengthened/whatever when they're formed, just the same as aero spokes. It's irrelevant anyway as no steel spoke gets loaded anywhere near its ultimate tensile strength. Spokes fail through fatigue, not through being loaded past their UTS. You can't just say aluminium nipples on aluminium rims will be fine. Some aluminium nipples are just garbage - I have one bike on which I had to replace all the aluminium nips with brass because they failed while I was quite literally Just Riding Along. Nevertheless, bravo for flying the reliability flag - it's something that's just not talked about enough.

[@Mapdec]

True. Some alu nipples are like butter.

[@johnstevenson2405]

@@Mapdec These were made of stale cheddaranium

[@stevengagnon4777]

@@Mapdec aluminum nipples don't work in salt water of winter cycling at all. They also need the spokes to be long enough that they protrude into the slot. If they are too short they will have a tendency to fall. It better if the spokes are 1mm too long and the thread of the nipple is fully engaged than 1mm short of making it into the head of the nipple .

[@stevengagnon4777]

@@johnstevenson2405 it's true they fail from fatigue. An under tensioned wheel will generally fatigue quicker too. It's pretty hard to over tension a 14 - 15 guage double butted spoke they are stronger than the eyelet of the rim..so the eyelet will crack and fail first. Also the double butted spoke is easier on the eyelets than a staight 14 guage spoke. Alloy nipples will fail in the winter salt conditions. They also can't be short of the head if it only makes it into the shoulder it it will more likely fatigue. It's also important to back the twist out of the round spoke as the nipples will keep the seat and just the spoke with untwist and cuase the wheel to go out of true.. I was told to give the nipples a quick snap and back the twist. This advice came from a piano tuner and in my four decades of experience it really makes a difference. So does using a tensionometer. Uniform tension is much more important than perfectly round and straight. Matching the tension to the riders weight and riding habits also makes a difference in ride quality. The wheel is a dynamic system so what is good for one person won't necessarily be good for the next person. And when the wheel sings, it's true and ready to ride like the wind.

[@markrushton1516]

Cycle clinic wheels. Owner Malcolm has rims and hubs at various price points and great advice. Also Wheelsmith in Scotland.

[@nickyburnell]

Hes a bad tempered so and so (online with Campy bashers) and a bloody good, helpful chap that builds a very strong wheel and stands behind it.

[@oftankoftan]

speaking of weight - looking good. I see you're putting in the work. keep at it 👌

[@Mapdec]

Thanks, will do!

[@andrewszczplaylist]

I own HG 1800 splines with 370 ratchet hubs, they work great for their purpose(bikepacking) and price(i paid sth around 400 euro).

[@brianhagan4728]

Just bought a replacement rear wheel from the only pro shop in Delaware. I asked for bullet proof training set up. They recommended DT 350 hub, with 32 hole Velocity rims for $600. Just picked it up yesterday. Sounds close to the £500. My last set of wheels lasted 10 years +, Mavic Elites, until I ran into a deep pothole bent my frame and damaged the wheels. Fixed the frame and now replacing the wheels.

[@Mapdec]

They will be perfect. 👌

[@jeremynorth]

Absolutely spot on and practical. Thank you.

[@Mapdec]

You're very welcome

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

Whatever the wheels I usually run DT hubs and I'm a very happy camper, 2 months on the 9velo mt30 for my trail bike. Knocking on wood... 🍀

[@kevingregoire1042]

brilliant ! always going for those easy serviceable models, I don't care how better it can get otherwise. If it is serviceable, I can make it fresh and accurate again more easily or at all. even spoke tention beats a couple of grams. Corrosion resistant, solid forginving material where you need them beats exotic failure. evenspoke tension and fine-true a wheel set, balance it with a little weight, It will feel like a 2000$ wheel set up and downhill ! I wish people would talk more about balancing, and that those lead stickers would be replaced by other less polluting metals.

[@AndrewBlucher]

Very interested in watching this. I already have a view, so I'll see what you think! Ok, thanks for that, a lot of knowledge and experience conveyed. Surprised you glossed over Fulcrum. I find among my customers that the Fulcrum R 5 is virtually indestructible. I've never seen one in need of service, never seen one with broken spokes, and they're well below the price point you set. Second surprise: you say Pillar spokes are hard to get in the UK. Just order some!

[@Mapdec]

Where do you order pillar spokes from?

[@borano2031]

@@Mapdec Their German distributor is tops, large stock. Oh, wait.. Brexit... Rgr

[@drwatchbreaker2914]

So glad I went with DT Swiss HG 1800’s as I thought the slight extra was worth the ease of parts availability.

[@Mapdec]

Yes. You will be glad in a few years time.

[@RAP4EVERMRC96]

I have commented that also on another Video of yours. For DT Swiss always get their original bearings.

[@siimot]

Just bought a set brand new set of hunt 4 seasons for £265, they seem pretty well made to me only time will tell how long they last tho

[@Exgrmbl]

15:05 another problem with using a big breaker bar like that is that u can damage the wheel. Trying to turn that thing puts rotational force on the hub which increases spoke tension and can crack the rim (i know because i made the same mistake once)

[@Mapdec]

Ouch.

[@aser885]

The zipp freehub pawls and springs are not even listed in the spare parts catalogue so good luck getting some more.

[@borano2031]

Zipp is a SRAM company. Is SRAM reknowned for their spare parts service?? ( Hint: They leave that service to third party companies, like UK based Ratio.. ) Rgr

[@andrewcockburn7484]

I'm surprised there's no mention of hope. You can get hope hubs with either their own rims or thise from mavic/DT for £500. Not superlight, but they are easy to swap between axle standards and i think you can get a good range of spares.

[@Mapdec]

We have talked hope a lot before.

[@martindoonan198]

This seems to confuse reliability (needs little maintenance or fixing) with serviceability (can be maintained easily). Other than that, some good observations, especially about unobtainable, proprietary parts. I'm definitely in the hand-built camp for reliable wheels, whether that's rim or disc, carbon or aluminium. Butted steel spokes, brass nipples. DT Swiss have always been reliable. Had some old 240s (precursor to the 350s, I think) that lasted 25,000km without maintenance until a rear flange exploded. Front wheel of that pair still going strong. Neither ever needed truing. Hand-built with Mavic Open Pro.

[@Nicksmtb]

hunt 4 seasons have not lasted well for me on mainly road riding. rear wheel needed a new rim after all the eyelets cracked despite being well within weight limit. maybe a build tension issue. The rear hub eats through bearings at an alarming rate with plenty of under rotation makrs on the axle. Missalignment in the bearing housings? Got a new set of ffwd royt 44 with DT240, lovely wheels but not exactly comparable!

[@HarishChouhan]

I bought DTSwiss G1800 in 2021 for 300 usd including import tax. Used it on my Émonda ALR. Did 11000kms on them and just replaced the nipples with brass ones. I feel it’s easier to live with DT Swiss wheels

[@lovenottheworld5723]

I've got some Miche Syntesi hubs which are nice and solid. Those Kinlin rims are good too. You might laugh at that.

[@tonysadler5290]

Choose a good rim, Bitex hubs (they make hubs for several "brands" so you may already be on them) or Hope. Sapim stainless spokes and brass nipples. I make some of my own wheels, thats the way I go.

[@andyw7325]

Would love to see more variants on this topic, to this relatable (value vs serviceability) insight and chuck in extra parameters (lightweight vs Value / durability). Keep up the good work, looking trim and healthy Paul.

[@twgq]

I´m using DT Swiss since ever because it´s so easy to service. Even as a hobby mechanic. You can get spare stuff from china too: ratchet tool, ratchets and good bearings. Also the entry price for good wheels like G1800, E1800, P1800 and so on is very attractive. You can buy also a lot of wheels second hand, especially for rim breaks. DT aren´t the lightest but very durable, especially for heavy riders like me. I also love my Campa Zondas, the conus axle is very interesting and smooth. They are durable too and very light for their price.

[@ketle369]

They’re not easy to service compared to Shimano.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Pitted cups.... Cartridge hearings are easy to replsce.