Two Sided Machining 1 - Part 30 - Vectric for the Absolute Beginner

[@wagsman9999]

Setting up my first two-sided carve. This was invaluable, and very clear. Thanks!

[@MrLewta]

Yes, yes ...!!! Good morning Mark, this is the third time I see this video within 12 hours!. And can't see something that others have not...! Clear, exact what and where to look at, ...etc,etc.

[@MrLewta]

Thanks a lot for your time , explaining and transfering all you do about the cnc way to do this and that. From San Luis, Argentina... trying to do my first 2 sides milling, to practice and discovering those things I have to modify or adjust on my homemade router . Once more, thanks for your help.!! Jorge A.

[@richardwilliams5520]

You taught me a lot about these tabs that hold the project in place. We have tried man different things but the tool paths always cut them out. So what you taught my son and I will now allow us to cut out our first double sided part. Thank you very much.

[@dalebridgen330]

Thank you Mark. I'm just starting into this hobby and I have watch other peoples videos and I must say I was confused until I found your videos. You explain so much better than any others I have found.

[@MrToms427]

Mark, many thanks for this video and all the othrs that helped me get startes in the cnc world. I'm just a hobby guy and I finished my forst 2 sided project. I have really enjoyed this venture!

[@stevem8ck]

Great video and also thank you for the story of the fire while using a down cut bit for the dowel cuts. I will not be using that. Thank you!

[@ollianddelphine]

Yorkshire gold is the ultimate tea, your wife knows tea. This video is exactly what I needed. A lot of the videos (even vectric official ones ) are sort of skipping bits. Many thanks for your videos I have learned a lot. Cheers.

[@Peter-qd2wp]

Very detailed explained. Slowly and detailed. Very good. Good Audio performance.Regards from Germany.

[@jamesstuart5997]

Thanks for explaining the procedure for the bottom side dowel holes; other videos I watched showed the holes on top but never did explain how they actually fit in once the material was flipped over.

[@RM-uw4qt]

He made mistake, he need to change holes position for another side

[@Wazio]

Thank you so much for making the time to make this! I'm working on transitioning from Fusion to aspire and these "bake a cake" style videos are so so so helpful.

[@edmundzadurian8908]

Thank you so much for the complete demonstration from explaining to demonstration of a new work piece 🙏👍

[@ron.owensby]

Tried doing a two sides last night, should have watched this first! Lots of great tips! Thanks for all of your work. Now for Part 2. Just enough time before todays live stream.

[@GeorgeKennerLaser]

Mark: great material.. have watched this at least 3 times in the last week. Trying to set up a set of coasters for a few days. Brand new to this and feel lucky I ran into your tutorials..

[@wrybread]

Thank you for this!!! Was having trouble getting my underside to line up properly. Right-clicking and choosing "copy to other side" saved the day for me.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you for checking it out! I'm glad to hear it helped you out!

[@swedint1]

Hey Mark! You don't know how happy you have made me with this video tutorial. Was torturing myself for a week or so trying to make table legs with some pocket cuts in the middle of them from both sides but never managed to put them symmetrically , spoiled a lot of mdf material but still not happy with the results. But now will go ahead and using the knowledge I received from your video try to make em right. By the way wanted to tell you that you are the most talented computer online teacher I have ever met! Thanks for that! Hope for more videos from your side :)

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you very much for your kind words. I really do appreciate it! I'll keep posting videos for as long as folks can put up with me. Take care!

[@swedint1]

@@MarkLindsayCNC I don't know what you do for living but as a trainer by my first profession I can tell you that you have talent for it. Keep on and stay healthy!

[@swedint1]

@@MarkLindsayCNC Hey Mark. I have a problem. Followed your steps in the video on double-sided projects and all seemed to work fine with aspire (tried to make small 28cm table legs with some pocket vectors on both sides) but when I send it to the machine the back side vector appeared some 3 cm shifted to the right side, almost beyond the project limit. And as I say visually the both sides of the leg in Aspire look perfect. So I had to manually drag the back side vector to place it to coincide with the front side, but that should not be happening I guess. Hope I explained it clearly... :( What do I do wrong? Thanks in advance for your help

[@marcospierri]

Wonderful explanation!! Congrats!

[@powerpc6037]

I like your tutorials, they have shown me alot about how it all works. One comment on this tutorial though: You don't have to cut all the way through the thickness of your material in this case since the top-side already has a chamfer ring. No need to cut into your wasteboard needlessly. You took the chamfer into account to make your tabs, but not for the cutout.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

I didn't cut into my spoilboard at all. Go on to Part 2 of this 2-part series and you'll see why... kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5msknZjdtV_b68

[@robertaaime2121]

Great video Mark, thank you.

[@SkyscraperGuitars]

Great show Mark!

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you, Greg!

[@wallystoolshed7050]

Thank you for all your videos, they are very informative. I have learned alot from your videos. Keep up the excellent work!

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you very much! I'm glad you're finding them helpful!

[@georgechambers3197]

Mark, you can save a little typing by using and 0176 on the keypad to give you the ° symbol. Good video and subject!

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

I use that a lot, George. I just tend to leave symbols out of file titles. Windows is picky about which symbol you can use in a file name, so I basically leave them out. The two I use most often that people ask me about are ° and ¢ Thanks for checking out the video!

[@Patricksworkshop]

Great tutorial Mark!! I learned so much watching your video, even though I have done double-sided CNC projects b4 with my older version of Aspire it didn't have these neat double-sided options, now that I have a newer version I can totally do this project to see how much more accurate I can be on double-sided projects thanks again for the great lesson and for showing the proper way to navigate this program to create awesome projects.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thanks, Patrick! It's doable in the older versions - they just made it a lot easier in the newer versions. Just a thought, but have you thought of making a video on how to do it in an older version, to show folks how it's done?

[@Patricksworkshop]

@@MarkLindsayCNCI have hit my head a few times and thought to myself man I can make a video teaching Aspire and CNC stuff but then reality sets in and I remember that I am a dummy, so I'll leave the lessons to you buddy. anyone can make a video only a few can teach it the right way I bow to u CNC master

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

HA! Well, next time you hit your head, sit down and start recording before you come back to your senses! I mean, how do you think I got started...?

[@davidhittenberger1651]

Thanks Mark! Wouldn’t it be ok to locate you tooling holes symmetrical to the center of your material, set the center of the material as your orientation, and pocket the tooling holes all the way through into your spoil board? Gets rid of one tool path and accurately places the material when it’s turned over!

[@georgekenner6588]

Very cool

[@thomasperrott1645]

Great video Mark, learnt a few nice little tricks there. Thank you. I notice you save all toolpath individually, I use the Mach3 arcs post processor and it supports toolchanging.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

I don't use that Post Processor because I want to save individual g-code files. That way I can decide which toolpaths to run, and in what order. I may go inside for a dinner or lunch break, then come back out and run the rest of the files. I don't let my machine run unattended, and having individual g-code files lets me stop as soon as a file is finished running, then pick up the project where I left off when I'm ready to continue. Just different strokes for different folks.

[@JeremiahL]

Great video. I picked up a few tricks like 2 sided parts, and how to project letters onto a 3D surface on this video. The pace is slow which is probably good for new users. Some of the functions such as saving tool paths, and creating a starting material could be abbreviated. Overall, you have a great a channel. Thanks for the content.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thanks for checking it out! Your points are well taken, but I tried abbreviating Job Setup and Toolpathing, and got so many questions on it, I went back to including everything. Think of it as a buffet - take what you want from it, and leave the rest for the others who want it. Thanks again!

[@fredwienbarg5051]

Thanks again Mark!

[@jimshirley2549]

Good stuff!! (Like everything you do!!)

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you very much, Jim! I really appreciate that.

[@jimshirley2549]

You've earned it

[@agp24432]

Another great video Mark thanks for your commitment in providing these tutorials,i have just updated vcarve pro to version 10 are you planning on doing a tutorial on the new engrave from photo feature.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you very much, Alan! I do appreciate the kind words. I haven't gotten into the Photo Engrave features yet, but when I do (it's on the list) you can be sure I'll make a video about it.

[@ZawadzkiMichal]

Great video! Thank you so much!

[@WildmanTech]

Great info Mark. Somehow I thought they would be threaded. I'll let you know if I find a model for that.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thanks, Marsh! I need to talk to you about threading one day. This may possibly be something right up your alley...

[@Kennyindia]

Hooray for the new threading tool path in version 10.5.

[@resorter66]

Great video Mark comes at a great time I have a project Making a box, that I will need to flip over Text on one side and rabbit.s and dado on the other side to make a box Also are the locating holes at the same position in the board. Thanks Jeff Peters.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thanks for the kind words, Jeff! In next weeks video, we're going out to the shop, where I'll cut the project from this video. I can get further in depth on the locating dowels there, and it'll be easier to show you rather than try to describe it in text. It's actually easier than you might think, once you see it done.

[@resorter66]

@@MarkLindsayCNC thanks looking forward to it

[@ronc1231]

Mark, when you flip the workpiece left to right, the indexing hole flip too. Wouldn't you have to drill the spoil board in four places to have the flip side pins match?

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

No, you only need to drill the spoilboard in 2 places. That's why I spent so much time talking about where to drill the holes for the spoilboard and why I named the toolpath the way I did. Check out Part 2 of this mini-series, where I actually cut out this project, and you'll see what I mean. Here's a link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5msknZjdtV_b68 Fair warning: Two sided projects are addicting. Once you get this process down and get a project done, you'll want to keep doing 2 sided projects.

[@ronc1231]

@@MarkLindsayCNC I checked it out. You must have made the reference holes part of the flipped tool path, putting them perfectly in line. Nice video. I'm just interested. haven't purchased a machine yet. I'm trying to figure out just how steep the learning curve is. So far I'd say vector has the most friendly software, I've seen guys design complex things from the beginning and get really good results. So far, for bench top machines I'm leaning toward Onefinity. They seem better built than other, no belts, better rails, so on. What are your thaoughts on that? I'm a guitar builder by avocation. I think the major companies are just milking there past designs, there hasn't been anything "new" in guitars since les paul and leo fender. So, I'm curious for design and build stuff. Thanks, Ron

[@VeganRashad]

This is awesome!!!

[@timothypropst238]

Mark, is it possible to drill the positioning holes all the way through your material and into your spoil board so you only have to do it once? Then you are guaranteed that everything will line up. Don’t have to worry about copying it to the back and later drilling into your spoil board before you start the other side. Plus you won’t have to set Z an additional time.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Two-Sided Machining doesn't work that way. The mounting holes that are drilled into the material are mirrors of the holes you drill into the spoilboard. If you just drill straight through, into the spoilboard, the holes won't line up. Check out Part 2 of this series, where I actually carve this project, and you'll see what I mean: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5msknZjdtV_b68

[@timothypropst238]

@@MarkLindsayCNC thank you. I did flip it in Vectric and it didn’t look right. Thanks for the quick response.

[@timothypropst238]

@@MarkLindsayCNC would it work to cut your alignment holes on your upper side last, remove the material, probe for Z from your spoil board then drill your alignment holes in your spoil board? Would save a tool change.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Watch that second video, and you'll see the whole thing step by step. If you want to cut the alignment holes in the material last, that's up to you, but tool changes take like 30 seconds, and you're going to have to re-zero your Z no matter what, so it really isn't saving much time at all.

[@timothypropst238]

@@MarkLindsayCNC I’ve watched many of your videos multiple times. It’s like reading the Bible. Every time I watch your video I get something new out of it.

[@dptp9lf]

Thanks so much once again Mark!

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thanks very much, Lyle!

[@sarinajamali939]

Hey ! The video was great. I didn't understand what wear those circle holes for. Would you explain?

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

I explained and demonstrated what they were for in Part 2 of this mini-series. There's a link in the description of this video. To save you the trouble, here's another link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5msknZjdtV_b68

[@agnesandjackblomschieber6000]

Thank you for these videos. They're very helpful. Do you have one that demonstrates 2-sided 3D models in Vcarve pro by importing an stl file?

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you very much! I don't have a 2-sided 3D carving video that uses an STL file, but it is on the list of videos I want to do. It will be a while before I can get to it, however. Probably after the new year.

[@bigkahunaranch1715]

Ok. Question please. Could you make one lid (22:57 time) then copy the other three? Or were you doing it this way as a teaching method?

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Good eye. That was for teaching purposes. I repeated the process to reinforce what I had already said.

[@ronmisiura9169]

Great video Mark. I recently came across your channel and subscribed after watching one video. I do have a question. What is the significance of using a TAPERED ball nose end mill as compared to a STRAIGHT one?

[@ronmisiura9169]

I realize it must be a ball nose.

[@ronmisiura9169]

Ok, algorithms are too smart. When I went back to your channel to watch part 2, there was a video staring back at me on this subject of Why Tapered Ball Nose.... Thanks for beating me to it.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

With a little over 350 videos on my channel, you're sure to find something you need. Check out the playlists, too. I put every video on a playlist - some are on more than one list, if it's applicable.

[@greggreg2553]

Hi Mark. Thanks for this video. Is there a way to set up an object eg. a coaster with different logos on each side, and then copy both sides at once and paste to make multiples. It seems if I change something on top then under side gets out of alignment and have to fiddle with all copies separately. TIA.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

What I've learned over the years is that it's essential to get the most complex side of the project finished, copied, and ready to cut, THEN start working on the other side of the project. And for just the reason you've mentioned. If you move or change one element in one side, it can completely throw off the other side. Some things are fine - you can change text like a name or something without effecting the other side. If you change a location, a shape, or another major element, however, it can drive you nuts. I'm suggesting to Vectric that they add a feature where you can select an element on one side, then an element on the other side, and auto align them. If you could select an outside profile, then right-click and click Align With Other Side, it would really be a big help.

[@jdeack]

Great tutorial, Mark. But the dowel placement on the bottom is throwing me... To me it looks as though they are in the wrong placement. I'm trying to learn the 2 sided right now. Understand everything you did, except the bottom dowel placement.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you, John. When you flip the piece over, the dowels will match up perfectly. In this coming Sunday's video, I go outside and cut this project, and you'll see what I mean. It's easier to show than it is to try to describe it in text.

[@konakma]

Why do my 3D not show dome. The tool path shows. When I try to view nothing is there. The pocketing view is visible. Thank you so much for your videos

[@selwynadelson]

Hi Mark- Another great video but a few questions: 1. Is there any way that you can make all four text objects appear to be the same sized font e.g. could you select all four of them and set their size to say 1/4" high? 2. When you created the extra rim on the underside of the lids, couldn't you have simply used the offset command again? 3. When machining the pockets for the locating pins wouldn't it be better to use a 1/8" end mill rather than the 1/4" one you have used - Presumably it wouldn't necessarily need to be an upcut bit then. Also your machine depth is only 1/2". Wouldn't it be better to make it 1/2" or so deeper than the workpiece because that way it would locate the position for your dowels 1n the spoiler board without needing to have a separate cut into your spoiler board?

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you, Selwyn! 1. You couldn't do them all at once. Because the lines of text are at slightly offset from one another, it would change the height of the text box - not the text itself. You could set each individual text size to be the same, but my wife preferred they fill as much of the text area as they could. It's all personal preference. 2. I could have used the offset command, but I wanted the extra rim to be on its own toolpath in case I needed to modify it. If I made it part of the same pocket that cut away the bulk of the material, I'd have to run the entire toolpath just to increase the size of that rim. 3. I have since changed over to a drilling toolpath for the dowel holes. I still use the 1/4 inch upcut end mill because it's a stronger bit, meaning I can run it faster than a 1/8 inch bit. Finally, drilling all the way through the material will not make accurate dowel locations in the spoilboard. Remember that in the project, I'm flipping the material from side to side. The holes in the spoilboard need to be mirrored from the holes in the material. Check out the next video in the series where I cut this project out, and you'll see what I mean. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5msknZjdtV_b68

[@selwynadelson]

Thanks mark for your comprehensive reply. Regarding the pocket holes for the locating plugs, would it be OK to use my method if you didn't have an upcut bit? Also, I didn't quite follow the procedure you adopted when you finally did cut the holes into the spoiler board - Was the workpiece totally removed for that procedure?

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Here you go. This video will answer all of your 2-Sided Machining questions. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5msknZjdtV_b68 You could certainly use a smaller bit to cut those pockets.

[@mazin_0_0]

I have a shape that needs grooves on two side, the first side I nested but How can I nest the other side correctly? or any other solution available!

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Get your first side design work completed, then select a vector that you can reference the other side from (I usually use the Profile Cutout vector.) Right click that vector, and select Copy to Other Side. Use that vector to reference your other side design from - i.e. use it to align vectors that need to match measurements or placement of the other side.

[@mazin_0_0]

@@MarkLindsayCNC Thank you so much that help a lot :)

[@markroberts1998]

Mark: I have had my VCarve Pro for about two days. I love your training videos. They are so easy to follow. I don't know if this is the appropriate place to ask questions or not. I'm told it's easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission, so I'm going to ask. I want to cut a double sided hanging Christmas tree ornament with a name V carved on both sides. The material is only 1/4 inch thick. Is this possible? Blessings.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Yes, it's very possible. I would use a V-Carve tool path with a flat depth of .050 on each side. I demonstrate carving to a flat depth in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6SyZIGiaNxql9E I would highly suggest scrolling down in the description of the video and checking the link for the V-Carving for Absolute Beginners playlist. It's a 4-part series that will walk you through the v-carving process step-by-step.

[@driftergw]

Mark: I understand that the dowel holes are not cut into the bottom of the piece, only in the top and the spoil board. But, I don't understand how they get cut into the spoil board. If I understand correctly, all your depths are based on the material thickness and all cut from that surface. So, if you set the holes to plunge 1/2" and that is based on the material thickness, the bit will not even touch the spoil board since the tool path is cutting down 1/2" from a surface that is more than 3/4" above the spoil board. What am I missing?

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

The short answer is, move on to Part 31, then all will become clear...

[@huntinclass2614]

How do you go back and change your flip direction without having redo the whole design?

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Well, I have good news and bad news. You can go back into Job Setup and change your flip direction if you want to. That's the good news. The bad news is, you'll most likely only have to redo one side. That's basically because the bottom side will no longer line up with the top. Also, depending on which way you're changing it to, any text will now either be upside-down, or reversed. I would try to save the most complex side, then redo the simpler side. Of course you could just save the project as is and set up a new file with the flip direction changed, copy the most complex vectors from the file you're working on now, redo the simpler side, and have a file for each flip direction.

[@huntinclass2614]

My work piece never lined up anyway. I dont have a touch plate and can't run virtual zero so what I wanted to do, I can't do without that.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Watch the second half of this series. Once you set your X Y zero on the first side, you never change it. All you do is reset your Z zero after a bit change. Here's a link to Part 2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5msknZjdtV_b68

[@huntinclass2614]

I've watched that video. I didn't move x or y I set my z, flipped and it's still off. My pendant keeps telling me "not referenced to zero" I dont know why.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

It might be time to contact your machine manufacturer's tech support folks.

[@Jaez85]

Thanks for your time and always giving us great tutorials. One question the dowel holes line up when you flip your work piece?? it looks like their opposite ends??? Should the dowels be symmetrical?? Thanks again.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Thank you very much! Move on to the next video in the series, in which I cut that project, and you'll see how the dowel holes line up. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5msknZjdtV_b68

[@soraya333]

Hi buddy I tried to make backgammon pieces using your idea but no success Ist possible you can show me how to do it ? I will appreciated

[@SkipEvansx]

Hello Mark, I have been creating my alignment holes along a center line with the object being created. I cut my design on the top. When I flip to the other side, the cut to remove the object is always a little out of center with the cut from the top side. Does using this offset alignment process work better at keeping alignment correct, or is it just a different method?

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

I've only done a few double sided projects, and I've always set the alignment holes pretty far apart, just so they'll only fit in one direction. I haven't tried using them on a centerline, so I really can't comment on what might be happening. In next week's video, we're going outside to cut this week's project. Then I can get a bit more in depth on the alignment aspect of the technique than I could get here, in text.

[@richardfarwell6759]

Could it be that your router isn't perpendicular to the bed? Not being square could make the holes in your project not align with the holes in your spoilboard. I'm pretty sure Mark has a video on "Tramming" the router to get it square to the table. Using offset holes in the design makes it very hard to flip the work piece incorrectly.

[@bux49]

Dumb question. Why not use a drill bit for the dowels ? You can peck drill them. It would just be a tool change.

[@MarkLindsayCNC]

Good question! I use a router on my CNC - not a spindle. I can only slow it down to about 11,500 RPM, and that's just way, way too fast for a drill bit. It's only a tool change now to use a .25 inch end mill. I just have to use an upcut end mill, that's all. Thanks for checking it out!