Marrakesh | Rahdo's Final Thoughts

[@tims287]

After two plays with two players ( me and my wife) i can say that we often had situations where one or two cubes got stucked in the tower, sometimes even three. So i can say that the tower really works good, even with two players. I think you must put these cubes into the tower a little bit carefully.

[@rahdo]

how do you mean? like slide them in along the funnel?

[@tims287]

@@rahdo i take them altogether and open my fist slowly directly over the funnel.

[@antgerfitz]

I think Merrakesh might also be a revisit, a muse revisit, a successor. I've played it twice with 3 and 4 players. Today I played a 2 player game of Notre Dame with my wife and about 30 minutes later I realised that the main mechanisms of Marrakesh seem very likely to be inspired by Notre Dame. You make each action more powerful by adding cylinders/cubes. You draft 3 actions which may include taking their cylinders/cards. Both have the punishing "feed your people" mechanism (dates+water+money/reduce-plague-rats). The river is like the Notre Dame area majority section. Pick up bonuses by moving up on the black and white tracks instead of moving around on a map.

[@rahdo]

very good point, wish i'd thought of it!

[@hedgeymcgee3079]

Great video (as always). Been excited about this game, but hearing your 2-player perspective is quite interesting. Sort of makes sense now that you say it. Thanks for the coverage, and keep on keeping on.

[@LookAtTheBacon]

That's odd because Heavy Cardboard played so many games of it where many, many Keshis got stuck that they disassembled the tower, switched the sides of the inside layers, and houserule it now that this way it works better (bringing out more cubes consistently). Funny that it's the polar opposite with your tower. This leads me to believe that there could be some production inconsistencies on the millimeters of each tower piece. Wouldn't make sense any other way.

[@jenniferschlickbernd6280]

Thanks!

[@rahdo]

thank you pioneer! :)

[@JeremyDobler]

In our 2 player game we did not experience the issues with the tower as much. I'd say out of the 12 drafts, we had something get stuck about half the time. I'll have to get more plays in to get a better understanding of the probability.

[@rahdo]

with my original copy of the game, i literally did dozens and dozens of 6 keshi drops and out of all of them, the tower only ever held something a couple of times. and that was with trying to rearrange the shelves in the tower, using different drops methods. nothing would make it work. the tower i got with the new essential version is very different. it regularily grabs keshis, sometimes 3 or even 4 of them. a HUGE difference :)

[@JeremyDobler]

@@rahdo Glad to hear, I was playing with the Essential Edition, and recently ordered the Classic. Hopefully it's a newer print that has the updated tower shelves.

[@samson250376]

I did read on BGG that when using the rougher side in the cube tower when assembling it works bether. Tried it yesterday and it's ok now. ;-)

[@rahdo]

that is good news! :)

[@jankogo]

I get a picture in my head of a very tall Stefan Feld saying "Come at me bro!" 🤣

[@rahdo]

he is very tall! boardgamegeek.com/image/5896031/rahdo (note, i'm 6'3") :)

[@xfoolsgoldx]

Looks amazeballs👍

[@Carsten_de_1981]

Thanks for the videos. I love Stefan Feld's designs. But I passed on the kickstarter and I will l continue to do so for now. I am not convinced yet that it plays excellent at two.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

Yes, I passed on the Kickstarter because: 1) It is very expensive; and 2) I am not a big fan of Queen Games’s management of their KS campaigns. They also tend not to hold their value.

[@atonaltensor]

In our two player games, Keshis get stuck about 30% of the time, and only 1 (at max 2) keshis at a time. We found this to be just enough spice to make the draft interesting.

[@rahdo]

good feedback!

[@marcohoehener463]

I read on BGG (apparently I can't post the link to the forum here or my post gets deleted - it is called 'Cube tower assembly') that switching the inside level of the tower upside down, so the smooth side (from the punch out) faces down, helps. This way more Keshis should get stuck.

[@rahdo]

interesting! i shall give it a try! :)

[@TheFlymar]

@@rahdo I guess it was the same in Amerigo (2 variants) and it didn't help much. I think covering one window in frame could be interesing.

[@TimYoung1984]

@@rahdo let us know if this works! I want to play at 2, cuz I play vs my wife, and if the tower works better with this “fix” then it’s a must buy. Thanks!

[@dtelquess]

I couldn’t quite make out the construction but was thinking rather than a whole window being closed making the crossbeams say 1mm wider maybe better option and remove should a 3/4 game actually be a possibility (never a thing for me 😢)

[@JJ_TheGreat]

I know… You don’t have to say much - and then KZbin automatically deletes your comment.

[@JosephFlemming]

OH MY GOODNESS I can’t wait for this!!!! The one part I didn’t like in Trajan was the mancala and I love the cube tower in Amerigo… this game sounds perfect!!!!!!!!

[@JJ_TheGreat]

I ❤ the Mancala element of Trajan! That kind of makes the game stand out to me - because it is very innovative. Other Euro games don’t use that mechanism!

[@ChristophSchmidt_natokh]

Thanks for the video. But one note about it: The cardboard crosses, in the tower, have a rough edge and a smooth edge, when assembling the rough edge must point upwards, then the tower also works satisfactorily.

[@rahdo]

we tried with the 'flat edge' both up and down and got the same results unfortunately :(

[@ChristophSchmidt_natokh]

@@rahdo This is annoying. It works very well for me. Can you possibly take the dice tower from Amerigo as a replacement?

[@rahdo]

yup the amerigo tower worked much better with the 'barrels', and also i tried the cubes from amerigo in the marrakesh towner and that worked better too. the problem is, in both of those cases, a LOT of stuff got held back, and afaik queen games has never stated what their expected retention is for the game

[@mariuszkania9947]

I wonder if they are going to "repair" the tower. This could be done in min two ways: - try to put different obstacles in the shaft that will hold the cube in more efficient way (there are plenty of solutions here), - put the blind areas at the base of the tower so when cube will fall into one it disappears (you cannot take it) Imagine that they could also split the area at the base of the tower and differentiate it with colors so that when cube falls into one it would need to be removed or if it falls into other area it could double or triple its value so that you could do double or triple action with single cube.

[@rahdo]

well at higher player counts, i don't think there's any fixing necessary. i dont' believe they want a lot of teshis to get stuck in the tower, just a few here or there, which definitely happens at 3 and 4p (and occasionally but very rarely at 2p).

[@rahdo]

additional datapoint, i jus briefly looked at paul grogan's old digital video for marrakesh (played on tabletop simulator) and at one point, there were 3 keshi's in the tower and he took them out because he was told by the developers that they don't expect that many to get stuck. so at most one or two, ever, would seem to be the expectation.

[@cabernetfran]

Shame Amerigo have meet Trajan cylinders cubes. The standard cubes were just perfect for that tower.

[@ambermolina1326]

You should buy cubes to represent where you will drop your cylendars

[@bushibayushi]

I've tested Ginkgopolis octagons with the tower from Shogun (dropping 6 of them). A lot of them got stuck. And my question is - why would you want that? Why would it be fun to draft only 3 out of 6 constsntly? The game would be a slog with so few octagons getting out. I think it works as it works by design - occasionaly something gets stuck, but you WANT to have choice. If only 3 came out (with 2 of the same color), the second player would get only 1 and the draft would be over. Where's fun in that?

[@rahdo]

well, it's neat to have a few get caught, because they show up unexpectedly later and that creates tension and excitement and unexpected opportunities, but the question is what was the original intent of the designer. 1 out of 6 on average? out of 8?

[@cabernetfran]

Hi Rahdo! Any thoughts on the new Marrakesh essential edition?

[@rahdo]

i just got it the other day and the tower works!!!! it's interesting, the game actually comes now with 2 ways you can build the tower to increase or decrease the effect it has on grabbing pieces, and i didn't even need to use the more "grabby" setting! so i'm excited to give the game another go!

[@Orochi_001]

Did you modify Jen’s and your Amerigo tower? I remember not getting it to the table because the consensus at the time made it sound like DIY work was necessary for the thing to work as intended.

[@rahdo]

we never had any issues with our amerigo tower back in the day (and have played several times since then and still not had a problem). there's a couple of threads about this on bgg now that make me think that maybe i've got a bum tower in this case, and there are suggestions for adjustments to get it more functional :)

[@MrBertybob]

You could use a bag and dice to decide if things get stuck in the bag and if so how many?

[@rahdo]

i could, but that would require some guidance from the publisher as to what the average behavior should be.

[@WilliamYoder]

Did you happen to try the tower out with cubes to see if it worked better when only 6 were dropped in at a time? To see if the tower occasionally captured a few? Curious if that substitution of cubes for cylinders would be a simple “fix” for a 2 player game. But if someone really loved the game, it would be fairly cheap.

[@rahdo]

yes, i took the cubes from amerigo and they definitely got stuck more :)

[@rahdo]

additional datapoint, i jus briefly looked at paul grogan's old digital video for marrakesh (played on tabletop simulator) and at one point, there were 3 keshi's in the tower and he took them out because he was told by the developers that they don't expect that many to get stuck. so at most one or two, ever, would seem to be the expectation. so using the cubes to create a lot of stoppages would seem to create results that are not part of the true design of the game...

[@wishmeheaven]

Thanks Richard. How about Jane will have a bgg collection table in which she will share her ratings for games? 🤔

[@rahdo]

actually jen does a monthly show where she ranks and rates everything we played. it's an exclusive show for members though: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooPMoKd5iJt9g5Y

[@wishmeheaven]

@@rahdo Smart move 😏

[@jacobramirez5974]

Since solos are more in demand these days, it seems every remake would have a 1- on the side of the box. Queen (and Days of Wonder for that matter) have never been solo friendly. Often their 2 player count suffers. Just wondering 🤔 What say you, Rahdo?

[@rahdo]

i think it's leaving money on the table and queen are just a bit old fashioned. most of their games, with a bit of work, could have great solo modes, but they just don't think it's necessary i guess. kind of like how 10 years ago, many board game publishers thought "why bother with 2p... that's niche. 3+ is where it's at... just look at catan". the market is shifting and queen isn't responding, which is too bad. but still they do make a lot of games that work great at 2 so im not complaining too much :)

[@marcohoehener463]

In a German interview with Stefan Feld he said they are thinking about developing a solo variant later but will first look how the game is received as a 2-4 player game.

[@jareduxr]

Would it be possible to implement a bot, like a deck of cards, that both adds and drafts keshies?

[@rahdo]

i suppose could you just set aside 12 colors for the 'bot' and then randomly draw 3 for them every round from that 12, and when the drafting starts and its their turn, divide the keshis on the grid like you're supposed to, roll a d12, and then use that to pick which keshis it will take (prioritizing groups of 2 over 1, then reds over other colors i guess?) the problem with a bot liek that though is that eventually it will favor one player over the other through dumb luck ("it always takes the one i need but randomly ignores the ones that are important to you") so i'm not sure there really is a way to make one that would work satisfyingly

[@jareduxr]

@@rahdo good point. What if the behavior was on a set of cards? The top half of the card would be a draft priority map, while the bottom specific colors added. When it’s the bot’s turn to draft it flips over a new card. Players place the colors of the keshies to be added next round on the card (as a reminder) and then the bot drafts according to the priority map. Since each card would target different colors with a set number of cards in the deck, it would be more deterministic and evenly spread. The question is would it have enough impact.

[@rahdo]

could be. personally i'd rather just get 6 cubes of each color and use them for tower dropping since they'd likely function with the tower a bit better (not that i've tested this, and again it could just be my tower that has a hard time catching the cylinders) :)

[@JJ_TheGreat]

10:31 Let’s not talk about building walls!

[@TheFlymar]

This is a must buy for me. I'm on the fence about all the rebranded title (Who am I kidding, new notMacao cards look dope, of course I'm gonna get it:)). But there is one issue for me. It's a table greed. Here we have big main board and big player boards and building scrolls tableau. Sheesh! It looks like lately games are getting bigger and bigger but are they better? Bonfire was cool but expansion blew it up. Don't even mention On Mars or Anachrony.

[@rahdo]

one thing to bear in mind, your player board is big, but you don't play cards all around it. pretty much everything of yours is contained on that player board, so it's not too outrageous (we played a 3p game just fine on our relatively small patio table)

[@TheFlymar]

@@rahdo Thenks for that info. It's hard to assess it properly. On bgg photos and in the video it looks like "overflowing" :)

[@randybookman]

Amerigo haf the same problem with the tower.

[@rahdo]

mine didn't

[@randybookman]

@@rahdo Good to know That was a big problem with the original release That people were complaining about maybe they fixed it

[@darren.mcauliffe]

Out of curiosity have you tried it with the tower from Amerigo and/or with cubes to see if that works better at 2?

[@rahdo]

i just did. the amerigo tower has wider "shelves" to get stuff caught, and dropping 6 teshis (ala 2p) definitely got more gummed up inside with that tower. but doing the test made me aware of one thing there are a lot more cubed in play in amerigo to begin with (you drop all of them into the tower as part of setup, so the tower starts stuffed with stuff) leading to more unpredictabiliyt. marrakesh is supposed to be more predictable i suspect... more driven by player choice and less by the tower. so i suspect the devs don't want that many thing to get "stuck" in marrakesh... just a few things here or there to spice things up.

[@rahdo]

additional datapoint, i jus briefly looked at paul grogan's old digital video for marrakesh (played on tabletop simulator) and at one point, there were 3 keshi's in the tower and he took them out because he was told by the developers that they don't expect that many to get stuck. so at most one or two, ever, would seem to be the expectation. so using the amerigo shelves to create a lot of stoppages would seem to create results that are not part of the true design of the game...

[@darren.mcauliffe]

Ah interesting. So your complaint is how it was designed to be.

[@rahdo]

if the tower would hold 1 or 2 every once in awhile, it'd be great. when i tried yesterday with the amerigo tower at your suggestion, i did another dozen or so drops with 6 cylinders in my tower, and not once did it fail to let all 6 through. apparently i should try taking the tower apart and flipping the shelves, but i think i'm done experimenting! queen said on boardgamegeek that my results are not what they've seen, so maybe i've just got a bum tower! :)

[@jmbootz]

I wonder if replacing the octagon cylinders with hexagon cylinders would work better, or yes, cubes. It could be a variant, depending on how much luck you want in the cube tower. I want the cube tower to actually work. I'd think there would be some sort of consolation prize for people that don't get as many cubes (or whatever) out of the tower. This seems like an odd bit of unmitigated luck in a strategic game.