Martin Luther & The Dangers Of Sacralism | Dr. James R. White

[@mary-janechambers3596]

He’s not afraid to speak the truth of the hero’s of the past- I appreciate that!

[@matthewdemarco3661]

James is second to none when it comes to church history! Dr. White, may God bless you as you drudge forward through the mud of secularism and polytheism. I look forward to standing hand in hand with you and Jeff in the fight to present the message of the Kingdom and theonomy. God bless you and the family. P..S. Be thankful your not as old as Rich!!!

[@chemnitzfan654]

White is not someone to look to for church history.

[@bryanjacobs1423]

This was a powerful and moving message. I needed to hear this today. Many thanks to Dr. White for his diligent preparation, and to Sovereign Nations for their upload.

[@argerm57]

I am so glad I found this man almost 20 years ago.

[@georgeakoto171]

Dr James White is a beast. He is so knowledgeable and humble.... whaaaat😍😍😍!!! Glory be to God for raising this faithful vessel. It has been a significant blessing to us and its a great privilege to listen to him. Indeed, out of his belly flows rivers of living water. To Christ be all the praise and honour. May the Holy Spirit us and may he continue to strengthen these frontline shepherds

[@chemnitzfan654]

No, White is not all that knowledgeable.

[@nathanwood6707]

When he said that Fritz Erbe will embrace those who imprisoned him, it made me think of Joseph and his brothers, and I saw the Biblical precedent behind what he was saying. Prior to hearing this, I despised Luther and a lot of the reformation leaders to some extent because I thought that their propagation of violence and general animosity demonstrated that they weren't genuinely Christian - those weren't the fruits of the Spirit, after all. Dr. White schooled me.

[@KristiLEvans1]

And what miserable imprisonment that must’ve been. The Holy Spirit must have been his constant sustenance.

[@sherriwalters6095]

This was my introduction to the religiosity of the Critical Theories and the Trojan horse they came into the Church in. Thank you, Dr, White and Michael, for the incredible insight you both had. I remember listening to this in 2018 and saying to myself, “No, this is in the Baptist church, that can’t be?”. But it was and is still. Your work is invaluable! Thank you for knowing the Truth and recognizing wolves in ‘Christian Garb’….for calling it out. Sovereign Nations is a true Godsend.

[@josephp9747]

All have sinned - no one is good But God

[@margiedenavarre7919]

It is so important to recognize the sins and flaws of our heroes while simultaneously recognizing them for how God used them to bring about a more biblical view of salvation. Something that is so sad is that the Reformers can be said to be "understood" in that they believed in a sacralism that had existed for 1000 years and they could imagine nothing else. We take that into consideration. But we also remember that the Anabaptists warned the Reformers in person and in writing against such sacralist tradition, so it is not as though they had never been confronted with a different way of thinking. Very sad, but part of history we should acknowledge and learn from. Thank you, Dr. White, for bringing balance to this discussion while we still greatly appreciate the Reformers for various contributions they made in the providence of God, but we cannot and must not treat them as unquestioned and inspired prophets. They too, had feet of clay and fought with the arm of flesh. Currently we ourselves surely have blind spots that, we can hope and assume that future generations will recognize and correct. Lord, hasten the day when you return and make all things clear and right!

[@chemnitzfan654]

Anabaptists were murderers who led rebellions.

[@margiedenavarre7919]

@@chemnitzfan654 I am quite aware of Muenster. Nevertheless, one crazy, cult like rebellion does NOT discredit all those derisively labeled Anabaptist. Not every Anabaptist either participated in or agreed with the crazy leaders at Muenster, lol.

[@RedIO22]

This was a refreshing and honest lecture. Thank you

[@jamessheffield4173]

Luther on baptism In the special section on infant baptism in his Large Catechism Luther argues that infant baptism is God-pleasing because persons so baptised were reborn and sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Lutherans believe that babies are conceived and born sinful and therefore need to be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven (John 3:5-6).

[@chemnitzfan654]

I don't think White has ever read anything Luther wrote.

[@jamessheffield4173]

@@chemnitzfan654 I wonder if he heard the saying; "Without the second Martin, we wouldn't have the first"? Blessings.

[@chemnitzfan654]

@James Sheffield I don't think he knows that Chemnitz or Gerhard or any of the other great Lutheran theologians even exist. Blessings to you as well.

[@jamessheffield4173]

@@chemnitzfan654 Hey! White has a fully unaccredited doctorate. Peace.

[@chemnitzfan654]

@@jamessheffield4173 haha yeah. It's really Dr? James White.

[@kotyslough5828]

What a great and eloquent message. Thank you, Dr. White

[@jackjones3657]

This is such an eye opening and fruitful lecture! We don't think that one can't fairly judge history from the perspective of the present.

[@ApokMendaje-mz2tp]

Thank You to God,

[@reformedcatholic457]

A great lecture. We need to judge the Christians of the past of the age that they were living in, we all have our blind spots.

[@ladilesper]

The end of a man’s life is more important than the beginning. Luther started out with passion for the Word…then he compromised on the Word. I wonder how he will be judged by the Lord. As Christians, we cannot honor a “man.” We must honor the Word in the man. I can honor Luther’s restoration of the doctrine of grace to the church, but I cannot honor his views on the Jews. He never even mentions Romans 11 in “On the Jews and Their Lies.” Solomon started out well also, but then became corrupted by the idols of his wives and concubines. To say that Luther will be under the blood of Jesus is the same thing as saying the German Christians who gassed the Jews will be safe under the blood. Yet Jesus said, “Depart from me, ye WORKERS OF INIQUITY.” The Confessing Church was heroic in their opposition to Nazism. So was Fritz Erbe in his opposition to infant baptism. Even Luther took a courageous stand at Worms, but he and other reformers worked iniquity when they promoted torture, imprisonment, and death for those who believed differently. They didn’t let the wheat and the tares grow up together for Christ to sort at the end. The blood of the martyrs will cry out against them as much as Abel’s against Cain or Huss’s against the Catholics. I don’t think I agree with White that we will all make it to heaven and embrace each other there.

[@lazerhawks]

Gotta be careful with these assessments. You say "I can honor Luther’s restoration of the doctrine of grace to the church, but I cannot honor his views on the Jews" and then at the end you seem to imply Luther might not be in heaven? Dr. White is not trying to white wash his problems - that's the main point of this talk. But he also isn't going to condemn Luther to hell. That kind of thinking can quickly lead to that of the pharisee who gives thanks that he isn't like the sinner in the corner.

[@damiandziedzic23]

Great presentation dr. White

[@mojo7495]

I cannot celebrate Luther because he is an enigma to me. At around 6:00, Mr. White says Luther believed that all the sacraments in the world can't bring you peace with God. But this is not true. Luther said to Zwingli, "We hold the belief of Christ's bodily presence in the Lord's Supper... [a sacrament!]...to be essential to salvation, and we cannot in conscience regard you as in the communion of the church....we acknowledge you as friends; we do not consider you as brothers" ("The History of Protestantism with 550 illustrations" by J. Wylie, p. 563, available on-line). Mr. White admits that he himself would not be welcome by Luther and would probably be considered as lost. Yet he doesn't say why. I am here to fill in the gap. Mr. White doesn't believe in either Catholicism's "transubstantiation" theory, or Luther's "consubstantiation" theory. So I get it. Mr. White would be condemned by M.L., just as M.L. condemned Zwingli. Thus, it would be wrong to say that M.L. believed that all the sacraments in the world can't bring you peace with God, because he very clearly DID. If you don't swallow the communion bread, you are not a Christian according to M.L. Thus, he is an enigma because his demand to swallow the bread and wine "FOR SALVATION"--which is obviously a work, cannot be reconciled with faith in the merits of Christ alone, which he also believed. Thus, the enigma. Furthermore, the retort that some might use, namely, that he was" living in a certain period of time", is no excuse because the Scripture is crystal clear, no matter WHAT time we live in. IOW, in the book of Galatians, we see Paul cursing those who would seek to add even one thing to the gospel. As I see it, Luther's addendum to the gospel is on the same level as the addendum we read of in Galatians, and so what other conclusion can we reach other than Paul would curse Luther also for crossing the line into embracing, "another jesus and another gospel" per 2 Cor 11:4. His own words condemn him. Count on it: to believe Jesus Christ is metaphysically present in a piece of bread is no more necessary for salvation than there is a man in the moon.

[@AveChristusRex]

"his demand to swallow the [body and blood of Christ] "FOR SALVATION"--which is obviously a work, cannot be reconciled with faith in the merits of Christ alone" ? You realize this is exactly what Christ teaches in John 6??

[@KristiLEvans1]

White is not Lutheran.

[@chemnitzfan654]

Lutherans don't believe in consubstantiation. We believe in the Sacramental Union. But you are correct that White doesn't know anything about Luther or Lutheranism. This is clear from his own admissions and his total lack of understanding when it comes to Lutheran theology.

[@marksplsdavidwoodcometosie6214]

Thank u mr white

[@mihailghiga2732]

Superb speech. I had a amazing history teacher in my high school, amazingly, she taught us about exact the same things. Imagine that, in communist Romania, 40 years ago...

[@wk1810]

Michael O'Fallon's "Three Legged Stool" is a must-see, after this!!

[@villarrealmarta6103]

Even the Jews said: “Let His (Christ’s) blood be on us and our children.” Who writes history anyway? Is the Lord not writing and working out all history in matters of salvation and judgement?

[@chemnitzfan654]

American Christianity is zionist. They ignore that part of the Bible where the Jews cursed themselves with Christ's blood.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

Jesus also said, "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do". If Christ himself could forgive them and wipe that slate clean, because of the foolish words of a few, we have to do the same. We don't believe in blood libel. We do beleieve in total redemption by the blood of Jesus.

[@villarrealmarta6103]

@@saintejeannedarc9460 what Jesus said for them in the section you used was for salvation, not to protect them from troubles in this world, or even judgments. All in the attempts of God to save some. The Lord uses the judgments to bring people to their knees in repentance.

[@fritzd2116]

“This is our history.’” Wow. This is an amazing speech. Bravo Dr. White!

[@thirstypilgrim97]

Dr. White, please research the stance of E Michael White and his book “The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit”. Also consider their role in Hollywood, pornography, and politics in America.

[@KristiLEvans1]

Those are not real Jews. Among those about whom you speak, are families like Rothschilds, who are about as Jewish as my left foot. They claim Judaism, but their religious practices, such as they are, are more akin to theosophy and Gnosticism.

[@prestonbinder637]

E Michael Jones

[@Matt-zp1jn]

They ARE the “Jews” that took back israel from Palestinians, that are the Gnostic pushers of a protocol of global-zionism that have control over london, uk, hollywood, washington dc, vatican city, the political israel state. The sincere orthodox, hasidic, saphardic judaism have no real power and are the mere figureheads USED by theRothschilds,yiddish moneychangers, european/russian half jewish communities, an their secret society type groups etc. They are meant to be used as the front face of persecution in order to protect & advance the gnostic global elites power, influence, war mongering control & central-banking schemes

[@scriptureexamined4664]

They should have used the five solas as standards for state Christendom back then, and not Lutheran theology...

[@chemnitzfan654]

Lutheran theology IS the 5 solas.

[@MajorMustang1117]

I disagree with probably half of this, but it was well put and I understand most of his arguements.

[@abecarranza7585]

Do you mind expanding on why you disagree?

[@ghostl1124]

To disagree is a freedom that may not last much longer in America. God will challenge His church to live according to the teachings of His Son, Jesus Christ, that our spiritual enemy might not outwit us.

[@JRRodriguez-nu7po]

Excellent lecture

[@fattyfat-fat6639]

I have known this, and suffered for speaking this, for over 40 years. The seeds for Christ's preaching of non resistance are to be found here. But what is still absent from dialog centering on this subject, is a healthy conversation on what scripture calls the "remnant." Literally, those believers who have managed to avoid being drawn from their ambassadorial role to the nation's, by becoming an advocate for those nations. One cannot successfully fulfill the role of ambassador when one is aligned politically with that host nation. In other words, departing the Kingdom of God in order to go native in the nation to which you are dispatched. For the born-again, that means any nation on earth. Once you are redeemed, your ties to any nation are severed: you are now a citizen of the Kingdom of Christ, not of the world's temporary nations, not even to your former earthly homeland.

[@tonyparry7149]

Im sorry, God's Word is true; 1 John 3 would cause one to seriously question men who profess Christ as Savior and Lord, yet simultaniously walking in hatred. (1John 3:10). Very sobering.

[@thirstypilgrim97]

Hatred for anything is a disqualified? Hatred for Canaanites? Hatred for the wicked?

[@chemnitzfan654]

Yes, sinners certainly can't be saved. 🙄

[@JRRodriguez-nu7po]

If that podium said Hillary instead of Trump, these lectures would be banned. Sacralism is alive and well at the FBI, DOJ and IRS. Only the god has changed to the State. I grew up in communist Cuba.

[@bryanbridges2987]

JR Rodriguez I would like your comment, but I don't it would be appropriate. Idk how old you are, but welcome to America brother. I'm glad you're here.

[@JRRodriguez-nu7po]

59 years old, in the USA since 1967 legally. First 6 months homeless in NYCity and now a professor of medicine and biochemistry without ever taking any Government welfare, applying as a minority nor even a student loan. I am watching my country become a socialist disaster as Cuba is now. If my comment is not appropriate, then neither is the lecture by Keyes a man I admire, of this same series of lectures. The state is the god of the socialist, either Nationalist Zocialist or internationalists like Democrats and half of Republicans. Dr White is a far better man than I. He often comments on politics on his program, and he sees the danger of socialist secular humanism as I do.

[@bryanbridges2987]

JR Rodriguez I'm sorry sir. I do not have a clue what I was referring to when I said that. It has completely slipped my mind. Any how, I am in complete agreement with you and him about this issue. I hope they can be defeated.

[@gregb6469]

I have visited Cuba twice, and have some close friends who are from Cuba, and it saddens me to see what a mess the Castro brothers and Che have made of that beautiful country.

[@JRRodriguez-nu7po]

Communism is the ideal economic system for ideal people. Adam Smith was a Presbyterean minister who theorized capitalism from the starting point of total depravity. The fact that communism only works sometimes in very small groups like marriage, or small fervent religious communities (like the VERy early Church); while capitalism works rather well, is evidence of total depravity.

[@kungfushiver]

Well done...

[@KristiLEvans1]

Wow! Wonder what about White’s theology would have had John Calvin seek his ouster?

[@dubbelkastrull]

5:17 bookmark

[@villarrealmarta6103]

This guy has a clever way of distorting the truth.

[@chemnitzfan654]

Exactly, he doesn't know anything about Luther and has not read anything Luther wrote.

[@tonyparry7149]

I think we need to take these Reformers off of the Throne.

[@AveChristusRex]

Deformers* They deformed and distorted the Faith. Christianity never knew Protestantism before Luther and co. You don't get to pop up one thousand five hundred years after the founding of the Church by Christ and claim 'we've believed wrong all along and my reading of Scripture should be followed.'

[@margiedenavarre7919]

@@AveChristusRex There was always a faithful remnant. Donatists, Waldensians, Albigenses, Vaudois. They had pastors, churches, missionaries. It's hard to understand how God can allow the Church to become so small and isolated while the corruption within the mainstream church grows and leads people to perdition, yet this is exactly what God has seen fit to do. Please do some more study of history before assuming that Protestant theology is new. May God open your eyes to His truth that salvation is 100% by His grace through faith in the completed work of Jesus.

[@AveChristusRex]

@@margiedenavarre7919 The Donatists heretics, who believed that priests had to be faultless for their giving of the sacraments to be valid, were Protestant? This is a joke. Protestantism was never Christianity. The whole reason the 'Waldensians' and crew were even a recognized thing is because of their novelty. We literally know the founders of their religion. The Albigensians, for example, blended Talmudism and Muhammadism into a Manichean religion! The men who sprang up and started saying 'Christianity ought to be this according to how I read Scripture-it's just what it says, it's not my interpretation!' By picking one or two sects or rebels out of history and claiming they are 'forerunners of Protestants' is an excruciatingly insufferable twisting and abuse of history. Were the Gnostics forerunners of Protestantism now, because they denied the real presence in the Eucharist? Again, this is a joke. "that salvation is 100% by His grace through faith in the completed work of Jesus" This is literally Catholic dogma. Why are you praying that I become Catholic.

[@AveChristusRex]

@@margiedenavarre7919 By the way, I apologize if I came across rude. Not my intention at all. God bless.

[@margiedenavarre7919]

@@AveChristusRex Read Trent. Grace alone is NOT Catholic dogma but I can see that we will not see eye to eye. The Donatists did not require perfection, but they did prefer those for their own pastors who were not apostates. The Waldensians and those like them may be a novelty compared to the larger mainstream church, but they were nevertheless the faithful remnant, submitting to the scriptures alone and eschewing the false doctrines of the pope and RCC. They were rewarded for such faithfulness by being slain in the Inquisitions by the ruthless and cruel church of their day, being laid waste by the many thousands. The severity and heartlessness of the Roman church knows no bounds. And before you say, "But the Reformers did it too!" (as was the point of this video)--I will say, yes, they did, and they were wrong too.

[@Vedioviswritingservice]

Trump hotels, LOL.

[@thirstypilgrim97]

Cyric London He keeps on winning

[@villarrealmarta6103]

Saying Luther knew about his imprisonment, you might as well blame Jesus for not interceding for John the Baptist. Weak argument.

[@KristiLEvans1]

Apples vs. oranges.

[@chemnitzfan654]

White doesn't understand Luther.

[@villarrealmarta6103]

@@chemnitzfan654 agreed!

[@GREEKTEDDY]

I usually disagree with Dr. James R. White on the matter of unbiblical Trinity but I enjoyed his talk today. I find him more mature lately and less quarrelsome ... Thank you bro James.

[@bryanbridges2987]

MrT Give his book, The Forgotten Trinity, a read. It may change your mind. God bless.

[@GREEKTEDDY]

Τhere's a problem Bryan Bridges. I once found it and read it in pdf and I felt very bad because Dr. White made many mistakes concerning the Greek koine. I don't expect from him to have a good level but he makes tragical mistakes (his studies had no specialty in Greek as I read). For example the "ΕΓΩ ΕΙΜΙ". In Greek grammar, we have crazy (strict) order. You cannot use it the same way with Aramaic. In Greek, the verb can only be and play the role of a verb, under no matter what circumstances a verb will never be used as a name or a substitute of a name. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Part_of_speech#Western_tradition the Greek scholar Plato wrote in his Cratylus dialog that "... sentences are, I conceive, a combination of verbs [rhêma] and nouns [ónoma]". What makes Dr. White here with the Greek verb εγω ειμι is preposterous. If you translate the Greek wiki you will read the following: "Verb is the part of speech that states that a person, animal or thing (the subject ) acts or suffers or is in a situation. In each sentence, there is a verb." el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A1%CE%AE%CE%BC%CE%B1 In the sentence of Jesus if "ΕΓΩ ΕΙΜΙ" is a name then the sentence will be mutilated and will have no meaning. If "ΕΓΩ ΕΙΜΙ" is a name then to be correct the sentence you will need one more verb. If you want to say you are YHWH then you must say: "before Abraham was born I am the being I am". When the Greek-Jewish scholars translated the Holy Name in Greek they called it in Greek "ΕΓΩ ΕΙΜΙ Ο ΩΝ" and that the "ΩΝ" send me to you, not the "ΕΓΩ ΕΙΜΙ" as Dr. James R. White wants us to believe. As I told you earlier, you cannot use a verb in the place of a name in the Greek language. i.imgur.com/7h5zjfW.jpg By the way, I am Greek but Dr. James R. White is not a Dr. even now so how he can be an expert in Greek koine when he wrote his book 20+ years ago? Many Trinitarians of the 3rd century fluent in Greek wanted to prove the Trinity to Arius and no one used the "ΕΓΩ ΕΙΜΙ" logic ... wonder why? :)) Because for Greeks his proof is a joke!

[@radekszafran1896]

@MrT - I am afraid you are not precise, or even in error, sir. James White does not teach, that Jesus's "ego eimi" statments coresponds directly to the book of Exodus, but instead to the book of Isaiah. There you go: vintage.aomin.org/EGO.html BTW, if you deny the doctrine of Trinity, therefore who Jesus is according to your view? It makes me curious, because actually all of the ego eimi statments could be errased from the NT and still the evidences from Scripture for Jesus's deity would be overwhelming [vide: www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=99522152111390]

[@gregb6469]

If you deny God's triune nature, you are not a Christian, and have no right to call Dr White "bro James."

[@GREEKTEDDY]

First of all Dr. White is not a Dr. (till he will finish his PhD). But he is a brother in Christ because he acknowledges Jesus as his Mashiach. If you Greg cannot accept Jesus as the foretold Mashiach then I will not call you Brother.

[@Chris-yw8jx]

In other words, we shouldn’t judge Martin Luther and the Protestants for their murder and hatred because of the times in which they lived and what they knew, but we should judge homosexual behavior?

[@theotheoth]

A shame this wonderful lecture is tainted with the advertising for Trump Hotels.

[@rokitman5753]

👊Trump hotels👊

[@g.a.ymedia4607]

9.07 Luther was a murderer and James White makes excuses for it, seriously?

[@douglasmcnay644]

We are all murderers in our hearts.

[@KristiLEvans1]

Good luck finding a major Christian group that did not persecute dissenters.

[@chemnitzfan654]

Anabaptists were murderers.

[@AveChristusRex]

Ah yes, he "comes to understand" after 1500 years. Sounds like.... heresy?

[@douglasmcnay644]

A mortal man being declared infallible, the bodily assumption and sinlessness of a mortal, fallible woman...the RCC has been on the heretical train so long that any deviation from their lies looks like "heresy". If you spend your whole life upside-down, when someone finally shows you what right-side up looks like, you will be freaking out because you will think the whole world has been turned upside-down when in reality it will be the truth.

[@KristiLEvans1]

Huh? Luther didn’t live 1500 years. The Catholic Church however, has lived 1500 years, so yes, heresies occur still.

[@AveChristusRex]

@@ronv7995 "So you won't admit that ML was reacting to corruption in the Church?" It may have began as something like that, but he came out the other end with a new faith that the Church had never held to before. What is loosely called Lutheranism today. He wasn't merely accusing clergymen fo corruption, like 'selling' indulgences (do we have proof he wasn't simply talking about the fact that a good deed like paying for a church building or something results in a reward spiritually, which it obviousl does? if that's the case there was no 'selling of indulgences' and it was a made up crimel; at best, he was pointing out an abuse, not a part of the faith itself), he was accusing the faith itself. His faith was never the faith held by the Church. Augustine didn't believe any of his nonsense. No early Christian did. I stay in communion with 'Rome' even though for the most part, every soul at the Vatican is a corrupt antichrist, or complicit with such (Francis and his World Economic Forum buddies, Pachamama, all things which aren't Catholic, or are anticatholic intrinsically). It's like if an apostle I was under the care of in the apostolic times taught something hypocritical for a while, or one of the bishops they put over me, I wouldn't just leave the church, I would consider them hypocrites and only do what it was they licitly commanded, and which is in their authority. Just like Jesus said to do with the Jewish authorities. If Luther was right, in other words, then all 1,500 years before his advent were not Christian, for they held to a form of Christianity which by definition is made heretical by his. And I nor anyone else is able morally to accept such an obvious demonically inspired attack on the faith.

[@AveChristusRex]

@@ronv7995 Wait, so you think corrupt and hypocritical authorities in the church mean you can may leave the Church (where else would you go, and where are you getting apostles to ordain new bishops to lay their hands on them)? No, you resist their unlawful requests, but obey their lawful ones. Jesus told the Apostles to obey the Jewish authorities in everything, but don't behave according to their hypocrisy. We do the same with clergy who defy the perennial faith in their words or deeds, because it was never a doctrine of either the Old Testament faith or the New that we have to obey sin, or obey things contrary to the perennial faith handed on from the apostles. It's one thing for Luther to claim the Fathers were Lutheran, but it's another for that to be true. Read the Fathers. They don't support his novel interpretations of Scripture. And in fact they directly disavow it via beliefs he would consider fundamentally wrong, like the intercession of the saints. Or the Mass as the New Covenant Sacrifice (singular). If you think the Fathers were Lutheran, you simply haven't read them. It's reall that simple. It's one thing to take one quote out of context, but it's another to have to reconcile that with the whole work of a Father, or with the Father's writings in general, and especially with the Fathers as a whole and their writings. It's just obvious. But even more so when you consider the little details. Like the canons of Nicaea and the things discussed which belong to categories which don't even exist in Lutheransim. Like the Viaticum (Eucharist at someone's death), and other things. The church isn't the Vatican or an individual pope, it's recognizing that the pope is a legitimate role within the church and that that's where to be. All the Fathers taught that the Pope was a sign of unity given by Christ to ensure us we were in the one single Church He founded, as a visible source of unity. Regardless of whether you considered him a good pope, at least you can't mistake being in the same church as he is, or outside of it, whichever happens to be the case with you. I know I am Catholic because I am in the Church with Francis as its elected head (as far as the public is aware or can know). None of his novelty or frankly (no pun intended) blasphemous statements ('the commandments aren't absolutes'-literally the opposite of what the "command"ments are) affect Catholics, because they don't fall under things Catholics are bound to accept or hold to or follow. You can't mistake that for another church. No one else was elected the pope. That's the purpose of the papacy. And Christ only founded this one Church. "To whom" else "shall we go"? There exists no other church, and we don't get to reinvent or start a new one, even if we're convinced it's what the New Testament implies, we think, "was" the "original" form of the church. Because fallible men can and have arrived at extremely different views about the same (what the Bible means and what the 'original' church and faith and interpretation of the Bible 'would have been').

[@AveChristusRex]

@@ronv7995 I know you don't believe in apostolic succession, but all the earliest generations of Christians did. In fact, did you know that one of the most popular arguments among the Fathers was that heretics were automatically disqualified as members of the church because they weren't ordained by a bishop who, either directly or ultimately, were ordained by an apostle. The reason being that if you weren't ordained a bishop in the church by an apostle, or by a bishop who had been, utlimately (i.e. himself, or through one who, again, ultimately, had been), thenyou were literally starting a new church. By any meaningful definition. The old one which existed was destroyed or corrupted, and you have established a new one. Church means congregation. The congregation of the Lord. The assembly. The assembly or congregation of the Lord always included and includes hierarchy. There is and has never been such a thing as a anarchical church with no bishops or leaders or sacraments or beliefs, only a nebulous objective concept about 'those who are the true followers of God' (even though the true Church of Christ will of necessity overlap with that objective number of the elect). And as for 'papal infallibility,' the reason people think it means the pope is always infallible or is at least always infallible when he speaks on matters of faith or morals, is because of the qualification "faith and morals," which, to people unfamiliar with the doctrine, implies that everything not faith and morals is not infallible, but everything which falls under faith and morals is - because the qualification's existence might be seen as implying that, minus any other context. However, the original decree on papal infalliblity didn't just say 'faith and morals' it made clear that as the succesor of Peter, the prince and leader of the Church Christ founded, when the pope speaks IN HIS CAPACITY AS SUCH, not as a private theologian (read: Francis speaking on a plane or something), and WHEN DEFINING solemnly some doctrine or matter of faith and morals TO BE BELIEVED BY ALL CHRISTIANS in perpetuity, that teaching cannot be wrong. Why? Because everyone has to accept such a teaching. But not every teaching which falls under faith and morals is infallible, because that was never covered by the official (read: actual) teaching on papal infallibility. It annoys me to no end when some Catholics just leave the Church when Francis says something heretical or borderline heretical or which sounds heretical, because they have in their head a doctrine which doesn't exist and has never been taught by the Church either officially or otherwise. If you believe in Jesus, you should PROBABLY believe in the one, single, only Church He established, 2000 years ago, and the faith it has always held for 2000 years. He didn't establish the Lutheran Church. Or any other one, whatsoever.

[@GREEKTEDDY]

I usually disagree with Dr. James R. White on the matter of unbiblical Trinity but I enjoyed his talk today.

[@bobpolo2964]

You don't believe Father, Son, Spirit is the one true God? How is that unbiblical?

[@GREEKTEDDY]

I keep reading the Bible and I never found the word, Trinity. Further on I cannot even imagine how you came up with the idea of co-equal and co-eternal of Jesus. I consider my self a protestant and as I imagine you sir do too. So how can you deny the filioque (you don't accept that the spirit comes from the Son but only from the Father) but you accept the co-equality? Above all how can you prove all that from the scriptures? Because if you cant then you found yourself in a heresy.

[@bobpolo2964]

Mr. T, you jumped to so many conclusions that it's really hard for me to address them without making this dialogue incomprehensible. Is the word "bible" in the bible? No, right? Therefore, the bible isn't true. That's your logic, friend

[@GREEKTEDDY]

bob polo, I write and I always give my sources in the form of links. On the other hand, you ask alone, you answer alone and you call this a conversation... Good luck with your life!

[@bobpolo2964]

mr t - Luck is of the world, friend. God bless

[@josephmyers9843]

Martin Luther was a heretic!!!

[@ghostl1124]

Joseph Myers is a heretic !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@KristiLEvans1]

Your avatar is of Mary. Would you like to engage in a discussion of the gnostic roots of Mariology?

[@chemnitzfan654]

No u

[@1920s]

I know this is going to some real neo-cringe.

[@chemnitzfan654]

It's amazing how authoritatively White speaks about Luther while revealing that he knows nothing about Luther.

[@georgeakoto171]

Dr James White is a beast. He is so knowledgeable and humble.... whaaaat😍😍😍!!! Glory be to God for raising this faithful vessel. It has been a significant blessing to us and its a great privilege to listen to him. Indeed, out of his belly flows rivers of living water. To Christ be all the praise and honour. May the Holy Spirit us and may he continue to strengthen these frontline shepherds

[@chemnitzfan654]

White is clever, but he doesn't know anything about Luther.